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CNN International: At Least 22 Killed in Maine Shootings; Suspect at Large; Crisis Worsens in Gaza as Fuel, Food, Water Run Low. Aired 4:00-4:30a ET

Aired October 26, 2023 - 04:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[04:00:00]

BIANCA NOBILO, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us in the United States and all around the world. I'm Bianca Nobilo.

MAX FOSTER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Max Foster. It is Thursday, October the 26th, 9:00 a.m. here in London where we are following two breaking news stories. Another mass shooting in the U.S., at least 22 people reported killed in Maine and the suspected gunman is still at large.

NOBILO: Plus, the looming end of a lifeline for civilians in Gaza, as the UN warns it will be forced to suspend aid operations in the coming hours if fuel isn't delivered.

FOSTER: We're going to start though in Lewiston, Maine, where it is now 4:00 a.m. and a police manhunt is underway for a person of interest in a massacre on Wednesday night. At this stage, 22 people are dead up to 60 others are wounded.

NOBILO: The shootings took place several hours ago at a bowling alley and a restaurant. Officials in Lewiston and the neighboring city of Auburn are telling residents to stay inside and lock their doors.

FOSTER: Hundreds of officers are looking for this man, 40 year old Robert Card. Schools in the area are closed on Thursday as police searched for the gunman.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Card is considered armed and dangerous. If people see him, they should not approach Card or make contact with him in any way. The shelter in place order that currently stands in Lewiston remains. A vehicle which was a vehicle of interest in this incident was located in Lisbon and we are now also asking residents in Lisbon to shelter in place.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBILO: The attack began shortly after 6:00 p.m. Listened to how one witness described the moment the gunman opened fire.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just on a night of bowling and out of nowhere, he just came in and there was a loud pop. Thought it was a balloon. I had my back turned to the door. And as soon as I turned and saw that it was not a balloon, he was holding a weapon I just booked it down the lane and I slid basically into where the pins are and climbed up in the machine and was on top of the machines for about 10 minutes until the cops got there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: State and federal agencies are assisting with the investigation into the shootings.

NOBILO: We're also learning more about the man that police are searching for right now. The person of interest, Robert Card. CNN's John Miller reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Robert Card, about 40 years old. He is a former military person still associated with the Army Reserves, attached to a base up in Saco, Maine. Additional background on him is that we are told he recently lost his job at a recycling center. This is one of those things that could have been a stressor that added to problems that he may have already been experiencing.

Law enforcement sources say he also was complaining to hear voices that there was a threat to shoot up the military base at Saco, where he had been attached, and that he spent two weeks at a mental institution being evaluated in Maine. And then he was medically cleared to go and released. More recently, it appears he lost his job. So we're seeing an individual who is -- got experience, has got tactical training with firearms, who has had some mental health issues and who apparently or allegedly snapped tonight and put his experience and his training to work in a -- in a terrible, terrible way.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: Let's bring in Connor Clement, reporter with WMTW in Lisbon Falls, Maine, not far from where the authorities found a vehicle of the suspected gunman. And Connor, there's a lockdown in place.

CONNOR CLEMENT, REPORTER, WMTW: Yes, Max and Bianca, good morning to you both. I wish I was joining you guys on better circumstances. But here we are in Lisbon Falls about 20 minutes from Lewiston where the shootings took place on Wednesday night. And police are still searching for the person of interest, Robert Card, who you just heard about there. And you heard about the Police Commissioner earlier talk about them finding his vehicle here in Lisbon, which is about 10 minutes up the road from where we are in Lisbon Falls.

That's where we were earlier in the evening. There was a very large police presence in Lisbon. They had a helicopter circling a farm, and it seemed like maybe that's where they were keying their interest in to try and find Card. They moved their search efforts down the road here. Like I said, about 10 minutes down the road and they have been keying in on search efforts in this area. Now behind me is the high school. This is where a lot of law

enforcement officials are posting up this morning. We've seen them in the gymnasium. You can see through the windows, it seems like they're having some type of debriefing, some type of, you know, team gathering, maybe a strategizing, a meeting, a plan for, you know, when they do encounter Card in this area -- if they do encounter them in this area.

[04:05:06]

But it seems like Robert Card is still very much at large here in Maine this morning.

NOBILO: Connor, was Robert Card known to authorities.

CLEMENT: What did you say there, Bianca?

NOBILO: I was asking if Robert Card was known to authorities.

CLEMENT: I don't have a ton of information about Robert Card. You know, if he was known to the authorities or not. We have a whole team working on this incident as you can imagine. And I think that there has been some reports, some past incidences where he's had run ins with the law. But you heard there, you know, he has a military background. He has been known to be a person that has guns. And he has also been known to be a person that has some type of mental health history. And that's what we're seeing come out now and kind of unfold as we're learning more about the situation. So I guess to answer your question, I would say, yes, he has been somebody that has been known to law enforcement officials here in the state.

FOSTER: OK, Connor Clement, thank you so much for bringing us up to date there. And we'll be back with you as you get more.

NOBILO: Let's bring in Steve Moore, a CNN Law enforcement contributor and retired supervisory special agent for the FBI, now to discuss this further. Steve, this is such a tragic recurrence that we keep hearing from the United States. In this case, there are some hallmarks that we do see. For example, somebody with a military background. But that makes this active shooter, if indeed Robert Card is the perpetrator, a particularly dangerous one because he has the skills, the resources and the understanding that might make it harder for police to find him.

STEVE MOORE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CONTRIBUTOR: It makes it exponentially harder and not just to find him, to apprehend him when they do find him. They -- the indications are that he may have had this military training.

From what I've seen just in the in the -- in the quick photographs that we've seen of him, the way he holds the rifle. The way he walks. The way he is walking one direction and addressing a target or looking for a target 30 degrees off the direction he's walking. These are all indicators of very high tactical prowess. And that that is terrifying to me, for the officers that are going out and looking for him at night. And the problem is you might find it and then what? You've got a

somebody who is probably more competent with a weapon in the woods than any of the policemen are. And so you have to decide how you're going to look for him and have a plan for once you find him.

FOSTER: What's it mean person of interest? That phrase and why aren't they using something more severe sounding as it were?

MOORE: Person of interest has become a term of art that has more legal standing than it has factual standing. Person of Interest is a way of saying they're a suspect without saying their person is a suspect. The reason is that in in different courts and certainly in the federal system, calling somebody a suspect attaches to it of many different legal protections. For instance, if I'm just talking to somebody as a person of interest, I can ask him questions. But if they are a suspect, I cannot ask some questions without offering them a lawyer and things like that.

It also has to do with possible discovery later on. Or indicate, you know, the defense attorneys -- if this person survives and goes to trial -- would say, well, he was a suspect before you had all the evidence in. So that's -- you had pretty much decided he was guilty before you ever set eyes on him. So these are things that have legal standing, but really no factual that he's the suspect.

NOBILO: Steve, you were outlining in your previous answer the discrepancy potentially between this person of interest, currently Robert Card and the local police, who may well have a lesser level of experience and tactical preparedness compared to him. Is it likely or do we know if the FBI or other authorities have been sent in to support this, given those facts?

MOORE: Well, he's probably got more experience than the average agent on the street.

[04:10:00]

But yes, the FBI has some very robust tactical teams. I was on the Los Angeles team and we actually searched for people we trained to search for heavily armed people in the woods and did so. That's part of what the federal system can bring.

Additionally, I would say the counties in -- the counties in Maine probably also have some very robust tactical teams. The problem is this person is trained -- it's not that the police officers are not well trained or not well -- not skilled. This is a person trained to kill you in many different ways, and to do so in a very tactically competent way. Setting up ambushes, setting up situations where there is really no possibility of law enforcement winning. And police officers are generally trained for urban environments, streets, car stops, houses, things like that. I believe this person is more likely than not in the woods right now, a place where his skills give him the advantage.

FOSTER: The longer this goes on, potentially the further he could have moved. Presumably they'll be speaking -- the law enforcement authorities will be speaking to their counterparts in Canada at this point as well, to prepare for that.

MOORE: Yes, Canada -- Canada has some really excellent law enforcement agencies, whether it be the RCMP, their border people. I've dealt with them before and they are -- they are very, very sharp. And you'll -- they'll get a lot of help from them.

I think right now you're absolutely right. The area that you are -- the area where you are searching for him increases every minute the person is out of custody. And you have to assume that they are at least on foot, could have a vehicle. If they have a vehicle within 24 hours, your area of search is immense. It's hard to calculate.

But I believe from what I've been hearing on their radio feeds and things like that, they are setting up fairly effective roadblocks. Things where a person would not be able to cross from one side of the forest to another or cross a road. Couldn't drive out of the area. This is not a guarantee, obviously, that they've got him bottled up. But it makes it more likely that they have kept him contained. We just won't know until he's found.

FOSTER: Steve Moore, thank you for analysis. I really appreciate your time on that. I mean, that's a real worry, isn't it?

NOBILO: Terrifying. We'll be staying with the story throughout the hour.

Now, a short time ago, a message was posted to Facebook from the restaurant where one of those shootings took place. And that message reads:

My heart is crushed. I'm in a loss for words. In a split second, your world gets turned upside down for no good reason. We lost great people in this community. How can we make sense of any of this? Sending out prayers to everyone.

Do you stay with CNN for the very latest on this mass shooting in Maine. Throughout the hour, we'll bring you any new updates as we get them when they come in.

FOSTER: We've also heard the Israeli military releases images of a new raid against Hamas. We'll have details on a critical shortage of supplies as well, including fuel in Gaza.

NOBILO: And later on this hour, former President Donald Trump gets in trouble with the New York Court after talking to reporters outside his fraud trial. We'll have a report on what that's going to cost him.

[04:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: Welcome back to our continuing coverage of Israel's war with Hamas. We'll have the latest on Gaza in just a moment.

First, an update on Wednesday night's deadly mass shootings in Lewiston, Maine. Local police have now identified Robert Card as a person of interest after at least 22 people were killed and dozens others injured.

NOBILO: His whereabouts is currently unknown, but his vehicle was found in the nearby town of Lisbon. One resident shared his reaction to the tragedy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DON DOSTIE, LEWISTON, MAINE RESIDENT: My first reaction was a lot of anger that it was happening community, because Mainers were much better than this. And you know, it's this -- you've had these interviews with people all over the country before in a mass shooting. You just can't believe it's going to happen in your hometown. And in here we are.

I got helicopters flying over my house with searchlights and it's unreal. We have a view of Main Street, so I just saw police car after police car after police car flying by and then ambulances going to the hospital.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBILO: Card is described as an expert firearms instructor and a U.S. Army Reservist. He's considered armed and dangerous, and residents are being urged to shelter in place.

FOSTER: We'll have much more on the breaking news out of Maine throughout the hour, but now we want to turn our focus to Israel's war against Hamas.

NOBILO: The Israeli military says it has conducted a targeted raid on northern Gaza with tanks before withdrawing.

FOSTER: An army spokesman said the operation was large but limited in scope and was meant to create better conditions for ground operations. It released these images of the raid. The army also said it killed a number of combatants who were planning to conduct attacks with anti- tank guided missiles.

NOBILO: Earlier, the Israeli Prime Minister said preparations are underway for a ground incursion, but wouldn't reveal any details on the timing.

FOSTER: Meanwhile, Australia has announced an additional $15 million in humanitarian aid to Gaza, but the main UN agency there warns operations could soon be suspended due to a lack of fuel.

NOBILO: CNN's Salma Abdelaziz has a closer look at how the fuel shortage is adding to the misery for people inside Gaza. And a warning that her piece contains images you may find disturbing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[04:20:00]

SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Aid is slowly trickling into Gaza, but in UN camps, families desperate for food and water say they're getting bars of soap.

This so-called aid provides nothing. We're dying a slow death, this man says. You don't hear the people screams at night when they fight over a piece of bread. There's not even water to drink.

So far, the total amount of aid delivered is less than one percent of what the enclave would receive on a daily basis prior to this conflict. And a crucial lifeline is missing -- fuel. Without it, UNRWA, the main UN agency on the ground, says it will be forced to halt operations. The international community is begging for help.

DR. RICK BRENNAN, W.H.O. REGIONAL EMERGENCIES DIRECTOR, EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN REGION: We are appealing, we are pleading. We are on our knees asking for that sustained, scaled up, protected humanitarian operation.

ABDELAZIZ (voice-over): Israel's reply, ask Hamas for fuel.

REAR ADMIRAL DANIEL HAGARI, CHIEF ISRAELI MILITARY SPOKESPERSON: Fuel will not enter the Gaza Strip. Hamas used the petrol for its military infrastructure. Fuel Hamas stole from UNRWA should be taken back from Hamas and given to the hospital.

ABDELAZIZ (voice-over): UNRWA previously denied the claims of fuel looting. And as Israel intensifies its bombardment of Gaza, with more than 200 hostages still being held by Hamas, the fuel shortage is already costing lives, doctors warn. At least six hospitals have shut down due to a lack of fuel and hundreds of patients from premature babies to the many wounded in ICU's are at risk.

If the hospital is not provided with the necessary fuel for the generators, we are issuing a death sentence, this doctor says. The execution is in the hands of the free world. Everyone is guilty.

Water pumps will soon stop working too, making it even more difficult to get clean drinking water. Bakeries are closing, aid deliveries are more difficult, and more than two million people, half of them children, already under bombardment and under siege, could face starvation. The clock is ticking.

Salma Abdelaziz, CNN London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: For more on the desperate humanitarian situation in Gaza, we're joined by Dr. Tanya Haj-Hassan. She works in pediatric intensive care with Doctors Without Borders and is joining us from Amman in Jordan. Thank you so much for joining us. I mean, you're really, really up against it, aren't you, in Gaza? I mean, how much longer can your staff keep working?

TANYA HAJ-HASSAN, PEDIATRIC INTENSIVE CARE AND HUMANITARIAN DOCTOR, MSF: So just to clarify, I'm not, I'm not speaking on the behalf of Doctors Without Borders right now. I have been going to the Gaza Strip for over 10 years now to teach. And I have been in communication with many of the doctors that I've trained with in the past. I've been in communication with colleagues who work in the non-governmental sector.

And I want to echo the words that were -- very resounding words of Oxfam over a week ago now, when they said that this is the worst humanitarian crisis that they've seen in their history. That's almost 80 years of working in the humanitarian field. I clearly have not been in that field as long. But I can tell you that this is certainly the worst humanitarian catastrophe that I have witnessed in my lifetime.

You know this is a population that has been living under siege for 16 years. A population that's already suffocated and struggling to access the basic needs of food, clean water and medical supplies and healthcare. And the implications of the current intense bombardment, displacements, complete cut off of everything that's indispensable for life, including water, food, medicines, and, as you mentioned in your report just now, fuel, is catastrophic for the population.

You know, two days ago, the Ministry of Health declared complete collapse of the healthcare system in Gaza. One third of the hospitals are already not functioning as a result of direct damage from air strikes. As a result of the that tens of thousands of people that are now seeking shelter in in these hospitals and the lack of fuel and other supplies. And the remainder are functioning at less than bare minimum capacity because of the volume of injuries and the lack of supplies and fuel.

So I mean, I heard in your report earlier, one of the humanitarian workers that was interviewed, said, you know, we're on our knees begging. You know, the global silence at this catastrophe is deafening. It's absolutely deafening. And the healthcare workers we're in contact with are exhausted. Exhausted. They're working very long hours under unimaginable difficult conditions. We know colleagues ourselves that have been killed. Their family members have been killed, and even a couple of our colleagues whose family members were killed while they were on duty and they had to hear that news and then continue working.

[04:25:06]

You know, these healthcare workers, I want to just really commend them. But I also want to emphasize that, you know, I'm a critical care doctor. I have been trained to take care of the sickest patients and I don't think the solution to this is more doctors or more aid. The solution to this is a ceasefire and I want to make that point very, very strongly. Because in my lifetime, I have never seen a catastrophe this grave and the world deny a ceasefire. And I think that should be extremely concerning for everybody listening to this program right now.

NOBILO: And we hear you and that is what we've listened to other medical professionals and of course, humanitarian workers say that there must be a ceasefire going forward in order to protect human life. And of course, our hearts go out to your colleagues over there who are having to suppress their own emotional reactions and I guess humanity in some respects, just to get on with the job and try and help patients and save their lives. I mean, it's truly unthinkable. So the WHO, as you mentioned, said a few days ago that around a third

of the 35 hospitals in Gaza were already out of action. Are you hearing from your colleagues in contacts on the ground that more hospitals are having to shut because of not having enough fuel and critical supplies?

HAJ-HASSAN: Yes. So I think that's going to be what we hear constantly over the over the next few days. Two days ago, the Indonesian hospital in the north of Gaza was closed down. They can only operate a very small generator for the operating room, but they cannot accept any more injuries.

El Shifa Hospital, which is the largest trauma hospital in in the Gaza Strip, is occupy -- is operating at in enormous capacity. Normally its occupancy is about 700 beds or patients. And they're -- they have close to 3,000 right now. They are using the ER as an intensive care unit. They are resuscitating patients on the ground because there's just no space. They're operating -- operating in areas that are not operating rooms because there's too many patients coming in. I mean, I hate to be graphic, but I think we need to be -- dismembered.

You know, yesterday I heard the story of a young person coming in, having lost three of their limbs and asking to be covered because they don't want to be exposed. You know these stories are horrifying and they should be horrifying to everybody. And I think it's really important to note because we keep talking about this as a war with a goal. 70 percent of the victims so far, 68 percent of the deaths actually -- according to the Office of Humanitarian Affairs for the United Nations today, 68 percent of the dead so far are women and children. You know, there's 2,700 children that have been documented as having been killed by aerial bombardment. That excludes 900 children that are not accounted for in those numbers because their bodies are still trapped under the rubble, so they can't be counted amongst the dead.

You know, these are -- these are someone's children. And you know Palestinian parents love their -- love their children like anybody else. Like you love your children, like my family loves their children. You know, this is -- this is a human catastrophe. And if you hear the desperation in my voice, it's because I feel like the world is not awake to it. We're not responding to it. And I think part of it is the ongoing dehumanization of this population by people who've had a voice.

And my colleagues unfortunately in Gaza, many of who have not been able to have a voice in this, tell us over and over again, we just want to be treated like humans. Day before yesterday, one of them said, we feel like the entire world has come together to eliminate us, and I think those words should be very alarming to everybody listening to your program right now.

FOSTER: OK, Tanya Haj-Hassan, you speak for so many. Thank you so much for joining us.

I mean this debate about the ceasefire and there's a lot of pressure on the allies, Israeli allies, to call a ceasefire, and they're not calling a cease. But the debate amongst politicians appears to be, you know, they're accepting that Israel has a right to defend itself. They've all done that. If they now call for a ceasefire, undermines Israel's right to defend itself by taking out Hamas. And there's this big debate here in London and Washington about that. But, you know, when you speak to people like that and they just want the ceasefire for very practical reasons. It's a I mean, it's a real problem for the politicians, I think.

NOBILO: Absolutely, and This is why you're hearing the subtle -- subtly shifting rhetoric about a humanitarian pause instead of a ceasefire in the British government. Yesterday you and I were discussing how it was claimed that Israel does have a right to defend itself and that a humanitarian pause or a ceasefire would only benefit Hamas, which is patently untrue when we hear testimony like we just did.

[04:30:00]