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Barrage Of Explosions Heard Near Israel-Gaza Border; Interview With Representative Seth Moulton (D-MA) About Israel-Hamas War; Mike Pence Suspends Campaign For President; Israeli Forces Still In Gaza Amid Expanded Ground Operation; Body Of Maine Shooter Found Inside Box Trailer; Interview With Lewiston, Maine, Mayor Carl Sheline. Aired 4- 5p ET

Aired October 28, 2023 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:28]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington.

We're following all the breaking news in Israel's escalating war with Hamas. Israel's prime minister says his country is now in the second stage of the war. The goal to eliminate Hamas and eradicate its threat to Israel. Israel's military says it has troops inside Gaza, but it's not clear if this expanded operation is the beginning of a broad ground incursion.

Civilians in northern Gaza say last night was the heaviest bombardment of the conflict so far. Israel's defense minister says the intensifying assault will improve his country's chances of freeing the hostages.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

YOAV GALLANT, ISRAELI DEFENSE MINISTER (through translator): We are making any effort in order to return the abductees, to us, to our country. It's a very complicated effort. It's dealing with reality that we didn't know in the past. We are ready to do anything possible. This is not a secondary mission. This is a national priority.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Also new this hour, Hamas is firing back. This is new video from a CNN producer in Gaza capturing rockets being fired into Israel. And CNN's Nic Robertson joins us now from Sderot, Israel.

And I know, Nic, you were seeing some of this rocket fire just a short time ago. What's the latest where you are?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, our producer here (INAUDIBLE) literally saw two rockets going out just as you were speaking there, Jim. The intensity of fire at the moment, the tank fire that's going out from close to where we're standing right now, is absolutely ferocious. The rounds are going out repeatedly, every few seconds it feels like the tanks are firing. I rather suspect we'll be hearing them here as we talk. But they are

so intense, this building is shaking. The skyline is lighting up with huge orange flashes. These are orange flashes, of course, that are impacts inside of Gaza. There have been aircraft on sorties. We've heard missiles dropping. Literally you can hear them dropping out of the sky as they're heading down to impact in Gaza.

The impression that we're getting from here, from what we've seen just along the border, just less than a mile from where we're standing here, we've seen tanks in the position right on the border there firing into Gaza. Heavy machine gun fire battles opening up. And you can see that the targets there close to the border are some of the sort of small hilltops that are in some of the fields that are between the border and these first towns that any incursion is going to reach very quickly.

So these early engagements on the ground that we're seeing appear designed to take out any defensive positions that Hamas might have between the border fence and the towns themselves. But make no mistake here, the intensity of fire that we are hearing tonight is even more intense than last night. And it was very intense last night when we saw the images coming out of Gaza. We saw areas without electricity, areas that had lost their internet, phone service.

Hospitals that were literally overwhelmed and stretched. But even today there have been -- there has been a situation where the main U.N. refugee agency in Gaza had one of their warehouses overrun by people, Gazans, citizens there who were so desperate -- this is some of the tank fire I was talking about here, Jim.

ACOSTA: Yes.

ROBERTSON: Some of those citizens in Gaza so desperate for food --

ACOSTA: What are we hearing now, Nic?

ROBERTSON: So we're hearing this tank -- yes, that's the tank fire that we're hearing there, Jim. So, you know, we hear it that loudly here. You can only imagine what it sounds like on the receiving end of those rounds. Just I was saying there that some of the people in Gaza have now become so desperate they're actually looting a U.N. warehouse for food. It's the fear of running out of food. It is running out of food that's driving people to do this.

And the U.N. agencies are very concerned that not enough humanitarian aid is getting in. And they believe that in a scenario with an increased military tempo that we're seeing at the moment, getting aid into Gaza is going to be even more difficult. And I think it was interesting and noteworthy that when the prime minister spoke today he used a greater sense of urgency to urge the civilians in Gaza to move to the south.

[16:05:10]

And we can certainly say from what we're hearing here and we've been seeing through the day that the intensity of fire on the northern end of the Gaza Strip is huge, and we've seen the forces maneuvering into position for what is expected to be a much greater sizable force for the incursion -- Jim.

ACOSTA: All right, Nic Robertson, always doing excellent reporting for us there. Thank you so much, Nic. Keep us posted if anything develops on your end that you can bring to us. We appreciate it.

Joining me now Democratic Congressman Seth Moulton of Massachusetts. He's a Marine Corps veteran who sits on the House Armed Services Committee.

Congressman, thanks very much for joining us. What's your sense of what we're seeing right now with the latest movements by the Israeli Defense Forces into Gaza? What's your sense of it right now?

REP. SETH MOULTON (D-MA): Well, look, they've obviously made the decision to go ahead with the ground invasion, something that we've been expecting for a long time. But first of all, militarily this is going to be extremely difficult. Compared to our fighting in Iraq, the buildings in Gaza are five times as tall, they have an extensive tunnel network. Fighting house to house, building to building in Gaza is going to be extraordinarily difficult for the Israelis.

And what they're trying to do, of course, is take out the Hamas terrorists. The Israelis have a right to do that. They have a military necessity to take out the terrorists who attacked them. That's Israel's right to keep its citizens safe. But if they kill innocent Palestinians in the process, they run the risk of recruiting more Hamas terrorists than they kill. And striking that balance in such a difficult military operation is going to be very hard.

ACOSTA: Yes, and Congressman, I mean, we heard the Israelis say earlier today that they're hopeful that this new operation, the second front, the second phase as they're calling it, might actually help them free hostages. What do you think of that? Is that likely at this point?

MOULTON: I don't think so. I mean, bluntly, I think that's extraordinarily optimistic. I think the hostages from all we know are being hidden in the tunnel network behind lots of Hamas terrorists. Realistically, the only way they're going to get these hostages out is through negotiations. Now that's tough, that's painful. It's extraordinarily difficult to negotiate with a terrorist organization like Hamas.

But I just don't see a sort of special forces raid kind of operation that a lot of people would like to imagine that's going to bring these hostages home. This is going to be brutal fighting for both the Israelis and the Palestinians.

ACOSTA: And do you think a larger ground incursion might draw in Hezbollah, might draw in possibly Iran? What do U.S. forces have to be thinking about right now?

MOULTON: Jim, I think the risk of a wider regional war is much greater than many people think. Hezbollah's activity on the northern border of Israel has taken a marked rise. And we're not paying much attention to that with everything going on down in Gaza. But if Hezbollah does actually intend to attack from the north, they're obviously -- you know, if they've got half a brain they're going to wait until Israel gets bogged down in Gaza in the south.

So there is a real risk here. And what the U.S. is trying to do and the administration has been very proactive about this is to deter a wider regional conflict. That's why they've sent troops and ships into the region. It's tough, though. You know, you've got Iranian-backed attacks on U.S. troops in Iraq and Syria. At the sort of operational level, we're trying to deter that from happening again.

But to deter it in a way that doesn't actually spark a wider regional conflict at the strategic level, it's a really tough job for the U.S. right now because nobody wants a wider Middle East war.

ACOSTA: And Congressman, we've been seeing images of Palestinian civilians who have been hit, children in hospitals bloodied, scarred, some on the verge of death. The Israelis have said time and again that they're not targeting civilians, but they are hitting civilians. And at what point does the United States government, does the Biden administration say to the Israelis that they're hitting too many civilians?

MOULTON: Well, look, I've made the argument very clearly that Israel has a moral necessity not to kill innocent civilians, but they have a military necessity for that, too. General Stanley McChrystal talks a lot about insurgent math where for every innocent civilian that you kill it serves to recruit more terrorists. He thinks that for every one innocent civilian you kill you recruit about 10 terrorists.

So of course there's a moral obligation to keep civilians safe, and that applies whether they're being used as human shield or anything else. But there's a real military necessity for Israel to do that, too. If they kill a Hamas operative but just kill one innocent civilian in the process, they could end up with 10 new recruits.

[16:10:07]

And in the long run, they're not going to win a war like that. So they've got to be able to make the case to innocent civilians that life is going to be better if you work with the Israelis, if you stand for peace, than if you stand for Hamas. But when they're short on food, short on water, that's not a good environment to make that case.

ACOSTA: And Congressman, as you've probably heard, the new House Speaker Mike Johnson says he wants to consider U.S. funding for Israel separately from funding for Ukraine. Obviously the Biden administration wants that funding bundled. That's what the president has proposed. Should -- do you worry that this is going to get bogged down, that aid to Israel, aid to the Ukrainians is going to get bogged down because of this?

MOULTON: I don't honestly think that Mike Johnson believes that Israelis are more deserving of peace and freedom and security than Ukrainians, but that's certainly what it sounds like. So he's going to have to make that case to all of us in Congress. I don't see it happening. I know that supporting Ukraine in their fight against Russia and supporting Israel, our staunchest ally in the Middle East, are both important to our national security, to our future national security, because it sends a message to terrorists, to aggressive dictators like Putin, that you're not going to get away with this.

That you don't test the United States or our allies. And that's an important message to send not just to the terrorists of today, and I put Putin in that category, a real -- I mean, he's a national terrorist. But it's also important to people like Xi Jinping in China who are looking at how we respond to these conflicts in Europe and the Middle East and making a decision about whether he's going to invade Taiwan which could literally start World War III in the Pacific.

The bottom line is the United States is fighting in the name of peace and security here, and it's a war of deterrence. We are supporting our allies, not just so that they win but so that they deter future conflict. And it's a tall order.

ACOSTA: Yes. I got to ask you a quick political question. One of your House colleagues, a fellow Democrat, Congressman Dean Phillips, has launched a primary challenge against Joe Biden, President Biden. What do you think of that? That a mistake?

MOULTON: I think, Jim, it would be hypocritical of me to just say that we shouldn't primary people because I primaried a 20-year incumbent.

ACOSTA: You ran. Yes.

MOULTON: And that's how I got here into Congress. It's a free country, it's part of the democratic process. But I think that Joe Biden's leadership in Ukraine, in Israel, I mean, he's acting like a commander in chief right now. And that's who I'm supporting for president.

ACOSTA: All right. Congressman Seth Moulton, thanks very much for your time. We appreciate it.

MOULTON: OK, thank you, Jim.

ACOSTA: All right. Next, we're following more breaking news. Former Vice President Mike Pence has suspended his presidential campaign. That came out just in the last couple of hours. We got all of the fallout from that coming up just in a few minutes. Live report next.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:17:07]

ACOSTA: Much more now on the breaking news from the presidential campaign trail. Former vice president Mike Pence has just suspended his campaign for presidency.

CNN's Kristen Holmes joins me now from Las Vegas.

Kristen, big surprise today from the campaign trail. I did not see this one coming. What do we know?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, Jim. It was a surprise. And I actually spoke to some of the event organizers who said they did not know that it was coming, as well. That this was a close hold that his advisers wanted it to be a surprise. It didn't even come at the top of the speech. It actually came somewhere in the middle.

Now the one thing to note is this comes as Pence has really had a struggling campaign. And he still had not qualified yet for that third GOP debate which is in two weeks. Now we are told by sources that this was part of the reason that he announced that he would be suspending his campaign because they just weren't sure that they were actually going to be able to make that threshold, particularly when it came to donors and fundraising, even after he had spent a number of these various last days trying to get that fundraising.

But he also talked about why he was doing this. And advisers say that in part that was because he saw the writing on the wall, that there wasn't the lane in the Republican Party that they thought there was. Take a listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE PENCE (R), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Traveling across the country over the past six months, I came here to say it's become clear to me, this is not my time. So after much prayer and deliberation, I have decided to suspend my campaign for president effective today.

Now I'm leaving this campaign, but let me promise you I will never leave the fight for conservative values, and I will never stop fighting to elect principled Republican leaders to every office in the land. So help me God.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: And Jim, it might not seem surprising that because he was in this struggling campaign, that he couldn't get the poll numbers, that he couldn't get the donations that he would drop out of the race. But it is a striking moment for the Republican Party. Because when you look back to 2016 when Pence was picked to be Trump's running mate, he was chosen because he was the Republican Party, because he could put evangelicals at ease, because he knew conservative, traditional values.

And now you're looking two cycles later, and there's just no room for him in Trump's Republican Party. And obviously as we know, Pence was by Trump's side, essentially had his backing on everything up until January 6th when Trump wanted Pence to block certifying the 2020 election results and Pence refused. And this was something that I'd spoken to advisers about how are you going to deal with that on the campaign trail.

Trump has been lashing out at Pence, how are you going to take that on? And they really believe that if Pence talked to enough people he could convince them that it was the right thing to do. [16:20:05]

But we saw those moments on the campaign trail and we saw those attendees and non-supporters, Trump supporters, essentially attacking Pence, saying why didn't you do that, listening to Donald Trump's narrative around January 6th and around that certification. And it just became very clear that that lane that they thought existed for Pence to run in, that was not Donald Trump's lane, even though he still had some of the same policies, just didn't exist.

ACOSTA: Yes. Absolutely. Mike Pence was running for president in a party that just doesn't exist the way he I guess once remembered it.

Kristen Holmes, thanks so much. You're giving me lots of memories of doing live shots with sets and stages and chairs being broken down and tables being broken down behind you. That's what you're going through right now. Thanks. Have to explain that noise to our viewers. Thanks for bearing through it. We appreciate it.

HOLMES: Yes. Thanks, Jim.

ACOSTA: Thanks so much.

All right, in the meantime Israel says it has expanded its ground operation in Gaza. The latest from the region live just ahead.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:25:16]

ACOSTA: More breaking news in Israel's escalating war with Hamas where we've been seeing some intensifying rocket fire tonight.

Let's go straight to CNN's Nic Robertson in Sderot, Israel.

Nic, I understand it was just heating up behind you a few moments ago. What can you tell us?

ROBERTSON: Yes. Multiple air strikes, Jim. We could hear the fighter jets in the skies and just huge flashes on the horizon and then explosion after explosion after explosion. And some of these, just to give you a sense of what we've been witnessing over the past few weeks, you know, sometimes you see the sky light up, and then, you know, 10, 15 seconds later you hear the explosion.

These sounded so much bigger. You not only could hear the -- you could see the flash, and then you could hear almost the plane and then the missile dropping, you know, that sound of the missile rushing in, and then the explosion coming up. So there was strike after strike after strike after strike there. And that was over a period of about five or 10 minutes, just a couple of minutes ago.

We haven't seen air strikes in that intensity for perhaps since right after October the 7th when there were a lot of powerful strikes on Gaza at that time. But this is just only part of a picture of what we're seeing this evening. The outgoing tank fire that's been firing close to where we are, again, the intensity, the frequency of it, it's -- the tanks' fire is so close to this location that it shakes the building which gives you some idea of what it must be like to be at the other end of it.

It would be hard for us to begin to imagine what it would be like to be close to these impacts, the big flashes that we're seeing, and these huge detonations. As well was hearing a lot of artillery fire into Gaza, as well, and we're hearing heavy machine gunfire which is, I think indicates that the troops that are either close to the border or are inside of Gaza are laying down covering fire for other troops, or they're actually fighting in contact with Hamas or one of the other groups inside the Gaza Strip right now.

This evening, it just feels like an eruption of activity. Last night was strong, it was active, it was busy. Tonight it seems again a step up from that. This I think is what the government was talking about, the prime minister was talking about, the defense minister was talking about. The army chief, General (INAUDIBLE), was talking about as well. All saying that this offensive is going to get bigger, that the country is going to continue to victory, the prime minister saying it's an existential threat.

And the level of firepower that's being laid down this evening is immense and intense. How much bigger it will get before big numbers of ground troops go in, which is expected but hasn't been said definitively that it will happen. It's hard to know -- Jim.

ACOSTA: And Nic, I don't mean to interrupt you, but I want to tell you that we are showing our viewers right now the video that your crew just sent in a few moments ago. And so we're seeing the back of your head in this video and then flashes in the background. Can you tell us a little bit about what you were just seeing a few moments ago to paint that picture?

ROBERTSON: Yes. I can hear fighter jets right now. There were fighter jets like this overhead moments before we saw those huge flashes. The fighter jets dropped these precision-guided missiles onto Hamas targets inside of Gaza. And this is what we were witnessing. The huge orange fire glow from the horizon, but multiple, not just singular, multiple. And that's been different and increased in intensity from previous nights.

And then a few seconds later you hear the huge explosions. I mean, we may be about to witness that again. I think, John, our cameraman, was just pointing out to me there seeing the flashes behind me. But if that's the case, we can expect to hear the big detonations, as well, that we were hearing earlier. Just immense reverberations and explosions.

ACOSTA: Really a huge contrast also, Nic, with what we were seeing the last couple of weekends on this program and so many of the nights that I know you've been out there live where it feels like you could hear a pin drop. And this is obviously very, very different.

Nic, stay safe, stay close. We'll get back to you.

My colleague Jeremy Diamond is in Ashkelon. And Jeremy, I understand you're hearing these loud explosions as well?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's exactly right. You know, that very same video that Nic just sent in, I mean, we heard perhaps the loudest explosions that we have heard in these three weeks. I was saying that last night because it was true.

It was the loudest, the most intense, the most sustained bombardment and shelling of Gaza that we have heard in three weeks, but that moment just now, a few minutes ago, Jim, it made the room shake. And we are about six miles away from the border with Gaza.

But this is part and parcel of this new phase of Israel's war against Hamas, which we heard the Israeli prime minister, his defense minister, as well as the former defense minister who's a member of this emergency government.

Laying out today as they described and tried to frame this war as an existential battle for the state of Israel.

And as they also made clear that this is going to be the beginning of a very long and sustained war inside of Gaza. One that could prove costly for Israeli troops.

I think regardless of whether or not we have seen or -- rather, despite the fact that we haven't seen kind of this overwhelming ground force go into Gaza, hundreds of thousands of troops at the same time.

It is very clear that what we are starting to see right now is the beginning of a very sustained ground operation inside of Gaza where you are not going to see troops coming back into Israel at the moment.

Instead you are going to see these ground operations continue to build up in the coming days, weeks, and perhaps even months -- Jim?

ACOSTA: All right, Jeremy Diamond., thank you so much. Stay close, as well, if you can. We appreciate it.

Let's get analysis from Avi Mayer. He's the editor-in-chief of "The Jerusalem Post."

Avi, what are we witnessing now? What do you think's going on?

AVI MAYER, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, "THE JERUSALEM POST": Well, Jim, this is the campaign that we've been hearing about for weeks now. We've been hearing that Israel is poised to launch a ground offensive in the Gaza Strip.

In order to return those hostages and deal Hamas a blow it will never forget and will deny the capacity to ever carry out a massacre like October 7th ever again. It seems as though we're starting to see the beginnings of that.

As mentioned, we don't yet see large numbers of reservists flowing into the territory. That is likely to happen perhaps in stages over the days and weeks to come.

And Israel's being calculating about the way it has done this. There is some criticism within Israel that it didn't launch this offensive in the immediate aftermath of the massacre of October 7th.

There were all sorts of reasons why that might. Now looks like it's finally happening.

ACOSTA: Yes. Does it also indicate, Avi, that Netanyahu and his advisers have essentially said time is up in terms of hostage negotiations, at least in the short term? And if we're not going to see more hostages coming out, we're going in.

Is that basically what's happening?

MAYER: Well, the prime minister related to that in the press conference early this evening, said there's no contradiction between this ground campaign and efforts to secure the hostages' release.

I've heard from analysts that the feeling in Israel is that when Hamas starts to feel the pressure, even more intensely than it has over the weeks, it will become more flexible in its demands for what it wants in return for those hostages.

So there is, in fact, at least according to the Israeli perception, no contradiction between the efforts to secure the release are ongoing. Qatar is involved in some of those, other players, as well.

Of course, Israelis are very hopeful that they are returned home as swiftly and as safely as possible.

ACOSTA: What is your sense of it there where you are, and when you talk to Israelis, when you talk to your sources inside the government, this is truly the next stage, the second phase that Netanyahu was talking about?

And how long might this last? Might we see the kind of activity that Nic Robertson and his team are seeing right now? Could this go on for days, weeks?

MAYER: This could go on for months. It all depends on exactly what the sort of encounter -- resistance they encounter looks like, whether they are able to accomplish their mission in a swift a way as possible.

Also, the civilian populations. Of course, efforts are being undertaken to spare civilians to the extent possible. That, of course, hampers Israel's ability to maneuver in the Gaza Strip. So that is likely to extend this campaign even further.

But many Israeli analysts and decision-makers have been preparing the public for a campaign that could last a long time, indeed. That is certainly something that Israelis are prepared for.

ACOSTA: Avi, I mean, what is your sense of when we start to see more images coming out of Gaza and you see more images of Palestinian children in hospitals, you know, bloodied, scarred?

Obviously, you know, the Israelis have said -- and you've heard this, we've heard it time and again -- Israeli defense forces say we are not targeting civilians in Gaza. But they're hitting civilians in Gaza.

Does this reach a point where the Israelis have to reassess the targeting and what they're hitting on the ground in Gaza?

[16:34:58]

MAYER: Look, war is awful. And it's terrible that so many Palestinians have been affected in this way as Israelis have, as well. And it's terrible that Hamas launched this war, massacring 1,400 Israelis and taking 220 of them hostage.

So, yes, it is heartbreaking to see the images. I don't think anyone can remain immune to that pain.

At the same time, the blame has to be placed solely on Hamas' shoulders. They position themselves in civilian areas. We know, based on evidence that was revealed yesterday, their main headquarters is under the main hospital of Gaza.

It is unfathomable that they are so cynical and so cruel in that way. But Israel has to do what it must to keep its people safe and spare the civilian population in Gaza, as well.

ACOSTA: Avi, we're seeing some reporting that there is some sentiments among the families of the hostages that they could be in favor of some kind of prisoner exchange or hostage exchange, exchanging hostages for prisoners, Palestinian prisoners in exchange for Israeli hostages.

What is your sense? Is that a possibility, or is that just some of the discussions that are taking place right now?

MAYER: I think it's important to be clear. I think your correction was accurate. These aren't prisoners. These are 9-year-old infants -- 9- month-old infants and elderly people being held by Hamas in contradiction of all standards of international law and human decency.

So the immediate release of those hostages has to be an immediate priority for all international players.

Of course, we understand that the families are willing to countenance any effort to release them. No one can blame them for that.

But if I'm an Israeli decision maker, the release of hundreds of thousands of convicted Palestinian terrorists, who are being held in Israeli jails for having committed atrocities of tremendous scale, I think would be a very difficult pill for me to swallow.

I don't know that we're likely to see that kind of a prisoner exchange any time soon. Again, efforts are ongoing. We'll have to see what happens.

ACOSTA: Avi Mayer, thank you very much for your time. We appreciate it. Always very insightful. Thanks so much.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:41:17]

ACOSTA: Now to the major development in the 2024 presidential race. Former Vice President Mike Pence more than suspending his bid for the Oval Office.

CNN senior data reporter, Harry Enten, joins us now to break down what may have led to the decision.

Harry, the polls were not looking good for Mike Pence.

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: They weren't, Jim. I spend all my time looking at the polls, and I honestly did not realize how far down Mike Pence had fallen. Because he fell so low, not just nationally but in the early states of Iowa and New Hampshire.

Look at this.

ACOSTA: Wow.

ENTEN: This is the former vice president we're talking about here. He was at 4 percent nationally. He was at 3 percent in Iowa. And in New Hampshire, the first primary state in the nation, he was at 1 percent.

He just wasn't anywhere near the top. He wasn't even in the top five in either Iowa or New Hampshire.

And when you combine that with the money woes that he had raising money and potentially not being on the primary debate stage in a little over a week, that is the reason he dropped out.

Republican voters, simply put, were not buying what Mike Pence was trying to sell them.

ACOSTA: Yes, and Harry, don't you think a lot of this has to do with Pence overseeing the certification of the 2020 election? He did not bend to Trump's will and the big lie.

ENTEN: He didn't. You know, he stood up for his laurels, what he truly believed, what is the truth and that was that Joe Biden legitimately won the election, 2020 election.

But the fact is GOP voters didn't want to hear it. We've seen it in polls over and over and over again when they ask whether or not you believe Joe Biden's 2020 election win was legitimate.

And 60 percent, the clear majority of Republicans, said, no, they believe in the fabrication that somehow Joe Biden didn't legitimately win.

Mike Pence was really going after just a really small part of the pie, a little bit more than a fifth of GOP voters, 23 percent, who said yes.

Apparently, the truth in Republican primaries does not sell, and that was one of Mike Pence's major downfalls.

ACOSTA: I mean, Pence was truly a man without a party in this regard.

And where does the rest of the GOP race stand now nationally with Mike Pence? Because I mean, I guess the question is now raised, if Pence is now going to get behind another candidate, are there enough non- President Trump candidates to coalesce behind one anti-Trump candidate to knock him out of the race?

Or are the numbers just not there? I'm looking at what we're seeing now, just doesn't look like it.

ENTEN: Yes. I mean, I don't think you have to be a statistical or mathematical genius to figure out that, at this particular point, Donald Trump is well above 50 percent. He's at 60 percent of the vote.

Even if Pence isn't in the race, Ron DeSantis is in second at 18 percent. Even if you add up all of the non-Trump candidates, you'd simply put don't get close to where Trump is.

So I don't think it matters how many people are in the race as long as Donald Trump's in the race because the fact it you can't beat when someone's at 60 percent of the vote or more.

ACOSTA: Harry, he is in a better position now than he was during the 2016 primaries when I covered him running for president back in 2016. He's really at a point where it just looks like it's over.

ENTEN: I mean, to be honest with you, look back through history, all the candidates who were polling in Trump's position or perhaps slightly worse or slightly better, they all went on to win the nomination.

Al Gore in 2000. Hillary Clinton in 2016. George W. Bush in 2000. All the past primary poll leaders who were at 50 percent-plus, they went on to win the nomination.

Maybe this year will be different. But the fact, looking at the polls, you have to say Donald Trump is the heavy favorite to be the GOP nominee come next year.

ACOSTA: All right, Harry Enten, thank you very much. Appreciate it.

Be sure to check out Harry's podcast, "MARGINS OF ERROR." You can find it on your favorite podcast app or at CNN.com/audio.

[16:45:04]

Coming up, we'll go back to the breaking news in Israel. A barrage of explosions heard tonight near the Israel-Gaza border. Our correspondent, Nic Robertson, has been on the ground witnessing all this. We'll be back with Nic in a few minutes. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:54:59]

ACOSTA: Authorities in Maine have released new details about the gunman responsible for a deadly mass shooting rampage.

Police found the body of 40-year-old Robert Card inside a box truck yesterday. They say he died of an apparent gunshot wound and that two firearms were found near his body.

Eighteen people were killed and 13 injured in the deadly shooting on Wednesday. And vigils are planned in the coming days.

The mayor of Lewiston, Maine, Carl Sheline, joins us now.

Mayor, our hearts go out to all of you. I can't imagine what your community is going through right now.

How is everybody doing today? I guess it's one day at a time.

MAYOR CARL SHELINE (I-LEWISTON, MAINE): It certainly is, Jim. And -- thank you so much for that.

You know, the violence that happened this past Wednesday was senseless and tragic, but we will be OK. Lewiston is a strong city full of resilient people. And I have no doubt that we'll be OK.

ACOSTA: And vigils are planned in the days and weeks ahead. How is that going to play out? What are we going to be seeing?

SHELINE: Yes. We actually will be having a vigil here in the city tomorrow evening at 6:00 p.m. at the basilica. And so plans for that are currently under way, but the date and time and location are set.

I urge all residents to come out. There will be plenty of room for everyone.

ACOSTA: And, Mayor, besides the task of mourning the dead and holding vigils and bringing your community together, there obviously is the conversation that's being had now about guns in this country.

I'm wondering what your thoughts are on all of this. There's been a lot said about Card's mental health history. And a lot of people exasperated across the country and I'm sure in your community as to how he was able to even obtain these firearms.

What are your thoughts on all of that?

SHELINE: I think there's going to be some more information coming out in the coming days and weeks. And certainly, some of those questions are above my pay grade.

And right now, I'm just wholly focused on, you know, healing our city and getting things back to normal as quickly as possible.

ACOSTA: Do you know why Maine's Yellow Flag Law did not help prevent this from happening? Why it wasn't triggered?

SHELINE: Commissioner Sobchak (ph) responded to that a little bit this morning at the press conference. And I would just refer you to Maine State Police.

ACOSTA: And tell us about some of the families and how they're doing. I read about, you know, the ages of the victims in all of this. It's just extraordinary. One as old as 76, one as young as 13 or 14 years old if I'm not mistaken.

SHELINE: Fourteen.

ACOSTA: Fourteen years old. Father and son, I believe, is in there among the victims.

It's just extraordinary. It crosses every lot in life, every generational difference you can think of, I believe, you have deaf victims in all of this. It's unimaginable.

SHELINE: It is. While I was doing interviews outside of city hall earlier today, the uncle of one of the victims at the bowling alley stopped. I spoke with him for a few minutes.

And, yes, it's completely tragic what's happened to our community. And you know, we -- we are broken, hearts broken for the victims and families. Our deepest sympathies go out to them.

ACOSTA: And the bowling alley, will your community be able to use it again? That one -- that is just so hard for me to think about when I -- when you hear the details about what was going on in that bowling alley.

One of the victims tried to call 911. The bar manager tried to stop the gunman. People were trying to pitch in and save the day. It was just too much for them.

SHELINE: Yes. Completely, completely tragic.

But I have no doubt that we'll be OK. As I was saying, Lewiston is a resilient city full of strong people. We're a close-knit community.

And one of the -- you know, I'm so incredibly proud of everyone, the stories that I've been hearing, the businesses that have donated supplies and food for first responders and law enforcement.

And just, you know, residents stepping up and helping out one another during this time. It's made me really proud to be mayor of this city.

ACOSTA: Yes. You should be proud, Mayor. And we wish you all the best.

Thank you very much for your time. And sending you hopes of lots of strength in the days ahead. I know you're going to need it, your community's going to need it.

[16:55:03]

But we appreciate your time very much.

Mayor Carl Sheline --

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SHELINE: Thank you very much.

ACOSTA: All right. We'll be right back.

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ACOSTA: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington. My colleague, Wolf Blitzer, is live for us in Tel Aviv, Israel.

[16:59:54]

Welcome to our continuing breaking news coverage of Israel at war. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu saying today the second stage of its war, the ground war, has begun.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. What the hell is that?

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