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CNN International: Israel Pounds Northern Gaza as Troops Move In; Humanitarian Crisis in Gaza Growing More Dire by the Day; Israeli Troops Clash with Hamas Inside Northern Gaza; Drought Impacting Every Form of Life on the Amazon River; U.S. Concerns about War Escalating into Wider Conflict in the Middle East; "Friends" Creators Shocked by Death of Matthew Perry; Biden Speaks with Netanyahu Sunday. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired October 29, 2023 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:05]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, and welcome. I'm Becky Anderson in Doha.

BIANCA NOBILO, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: And I'm Bianca Nobilo in London. We have a lot to get to this hour but first to our breaking coverage of the Israel-Hamas war.

ANDERSON: We are seeing evidence of how far Israeli forces have pushed into Gaza since they started what Israeli officials call the next phase of their war. These pictures show an Israeli flag being waved at a resort along the sea in Gaza. CNN has geolocated the images to an area over two miles into northern Gaza.

As Israel presses its bombing campaign, Palestinian say airstrikes are getting dangerously close to Al Quds Hospital, the second largest hospital in Gaza City. Israel has warned that the facility should be evacuated because it could be hit by airstrikes.

And in southern Gaza, some aid trucks made their way through the Rafah Crossing. Some aid trucks, I have to underscore. And internet and cell phone services that were cut off on Saturday do appear to be slowly coming back online.

Well, Israel has sworn of a long difficult conflict to take out Hamas and ensure its security in response to the brutal October the 7th terrorist attack that killed more than 1400 Israeli civilians and resulted in more than 200 people taken hostage inside Gaza. But Israel's stepped-up military campaign is having devastating consequences on the ground.

Let's kick off this hour with CNN's Scott McLean, who has the very latest on the increasingly desperate situation inside Gaza.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There isn't much last of the Bilal Bin Rabah in central Gaza. The building was flattened by an overnight Israeli airstrike. People inside the neighboring apartment blocks weren't spared either, roofs were ripped right off, everything now covered in a pale shade of gray. More than a dozen were killed and more were injured according to medical staff at the local hospital, where outside the bodies of those killed are wrapped in white sheets and marked with their names.

Both the IDF and the Israeli prime minister have renewed calls for civilians to urgently evacuate northern Gaza. The apartment buildings next to the mosque were filled with people who had heeded those warnings believing Central Gaza would be safer.

There were no warnings at all, this survivor says. We've seen the entire thing collapsing on us. We didn't know exactly where the hit was, we started running to get our children out, it's a miracle they survived.

This man said there were no warnings. It was a strong airstrike the people pulled us from underneath the rubble and took us to the hospital.

CNN has reached out to the IDF for comment. Israel said that overnight some 450 terror targets were hit and say that some strikes were directed by troops now on the ground inside Gaza.

This was the aftermath of one of those strikes on a family home in Khan Younis in southern Gaza. The desperate scramble to move slabs of concrete hoping to find survivors, instead they found at least one body. By daybreak, the urgency has gone. A pile of rubble is all that's left. Hospitals already at the breaking point are only getting more overwhelmed. In Deir al Balah Saturday doctors operated on this boy on the floor.

The Palestinian Red Crescent now says that Israeli authorities called Al-Quds Hospital in Gaza City twice with a clear and direct threat that the hospital must be evacuated at once. Otherwise the Red Crescent holds full responsibility for the lives of everyone inside. That amounts to hundreds of patients and thousands more people taking shelter. Israel says it called more than twice since the war began and says that Hamas is shielding themselves inside hospitals.

Foreign aid is entering Gaza at a trickle. The desperation apparent in this video of people ransacking a U.N. warehouse carrying out bags of food. Maybe a temporary lifeline for those people but the U.N. calls it a worrying sign that civil order is starting to break down as the situation in Gaza only gets worse.

Scott McLean, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON: And while this war goes into a fourth week, the U.N. is warning, as Scott pointed out there, that civil order is starting to break down in Gaza. It says thousands of people broke into some of those warehouses that you saw there in distribution centers taking wheat, flower, and other essential items over the weekend.

[15:05:03]

Let's bring in Thomas White, the director of affairs at the U.N. Relief and Works Agency in Gaza, to discuss what is this growing humanitarian crisis. And it's not just your organization as I understand it it's the World Food Programme as well who has now described the aid being looted from some of its warehouses as well.

Do you agree that we are on the verge of seeing civil order disintegrate at present? And what's your response to those images that we've seen?

THOMAS WHITE, DIRECTOR, UNRWA AFFAIRS GAZA: (INAUDIBLE) morning for a couple of days now that if essential public services and humanitarian aid could not be a provided to the population in a sustained way we would see a breakdown in civil order. What we are seeing right now is the first stages of that, and of course -- and some of our logistic bases were looted by hundreds of young men.

So it is a very worrying sign that the fabric of society is starting to break down so we are very concerned about the safety of Palestinians but also of our ability to maintain the operations here in Gaza.

ANDERSON: Let's talk about that. Describe those operations on the ground. You are there, you are witnessing what is being described as a humanitarian catastrophe. Just explain what you are seeing through your own eyes here.

WHITE: We have (INAUDIBLE) five, six, seven. We are rationing food that we are providing to these people. Water supplies are becoming very limited but the other major concern is that nowhere in Gaza is safe. There is nowhere to flee to, there is nowhere to run to. Even in our schools that we are sheltering internally displaced people, we've had five direct hits. It's cost the lives of 17 people, 281 have been uninjured and I'm getting reports tonight that another school has been hit by fire.

So supplies are very short, which means people are going without, and essentially they've got nowhere to flee to. They've got nowhere to run. They are scared for their lives.

ANDERSON: I need to get your analysis of what is going on in the north particularly with these warnings by the Israelis of a possible strike on the Al-Quds Hospital. I mean, the WHO chief has called reports of Israeli forces threatening that Gaza hospital as deeply concerning. He says we reiterate it is impossible to evacuate hospitals full of patients without endangering their lives.

You will tell us that those hospitals are also sheltering thousands of people, that specific hospital as we understand it has got some 14,000 people sheltering in it. I mean, you know, what's your response to those reports that they are being warned that they could be struck?

WHITE: Essentially, these hospitals should be protected under international law. And the patients and the people sheltering there should be protected.

I was in Gaza City about two days ago, and I visited some of the hospitals, and I can confirm there are hundreds and hundreds of patients and thousands of internally displaced people taking shelter in these locations. We also have shelters in the north. We've lost contact with the people sheltering there and some of our staff. And we are very concerned that in these shelters you can have up to 1500 people sheltering in a school.

We are reminding the Israelis that their obligations under international law that these people should be protected. But I'm very concerned that we will get no guarantees that people sheltering under a U.N. flag will be safe.

ANDERSON: The head of your organization, Philippe Lazzarini, has called for a durable and sustainable immediate cease-fire, humanitarian pause, call it what you will, and I say that because there's always such argument over some of the diplomatic language. But let's call this a humanitarian pause. That is what he is calling for, that is what this region that I am in here, and I'm in Qatar today is calling for. They have roundly condemned Israel's latest escalation in this ground war.

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The head of your organization will speak as I understand it from diplomatic sources at an emergency U.N. Security Council meeting tomorrow. What is the message here to the outside, what, 120 countries at the U.N. General Assembly on Friday called for an immediate cease- fire that hasn't happened. It was rejected, not voted for by the United States and 44 other countries abstained. We haven't been able to get a U.N. resolution passed at the -- you know, amongst the P Five. What's your message here?

WHITE: Through speaking from Gaza, we desperately need a humanitarian cease-fire. This is the only way that I can see that we will be able to ease the tension within the community here. It's the only way that we can in a sustainable way get assistance to people in need, people desperately want into this conflict and our ability to serve them is dependent on essentially a humanitarian cease-fire which will enable the situation to stabilize, enable us to get humanitarian systems to people.

But really most importantly, we need the public sector to be operating. We also need the private sector to be operating particularly in the public sector. They are on the brink of collapse, they are pumping the water, they are pumping the sewage out of the cities. They were removing waste in this cities. They're on the verge of collapse so we really need a humanitarian cease-fire to allow us to get the assistance that people need and stabilize society here in Gaza.

ANDERSON: You make a very good point. It's not just about physically getting food into people's mouths and fuel into generators to keep the lights on. But it is about ensuring that society can still function without that. Of course we are literally looking at the abyss. And we've been warned about this by, you know. anybody involved who the world will listen to at present. Your voice is a really important.

Do stay safe, we know that you've lost, you know, many colleagues in all of this, the work you do is so fundamentally important to keeping people alive. Thank you and we'll speak again.

As we've been discussing, diplomatic sources telling me that the U.N. Security Council will hold an emergency meeting on Monday regarding Israel's ground invasion of Gaza. This comes after those 120 countries voted for a U.N. resolution on Friday, this was a nonbinding resolution, described as a sort of moral resolution if you will. That call for a sustained humanitarian truce in Gaza. The U.S. was one of 14 countries that voted against the resolution with 45 abstaining.

Well, explosions have been ringing out all day across Gaza.

Israel claiming to have struck over 450 Hamas targets in the past 24 hours. Israeli forces in northern Gaza exchange gunfire with Hamas fighters Sunday. The intense air and ground attacks come following Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's announcement on Saturday that Israel would expand its ground operation in Gaza.

CNN's Jeremy Diamond joining me now from Ashkelon -- Jeremy.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Becky, Israel's ground operation continuing and set to expand even further. More than 48 hours after IDF forces said that they had begun this expanded ground operation inside of northern Gaza this evening. IDF spokesman Daniel Hagari making clear that those operations are continuing, that fighting is actively ongoing between Hamas militants and Israeli troops inside of Gaza, and that they plan to further expand those operations going further.

There was also an urging to civilians inside northern Gaza, once again urging them to head south where the IDF says that food, water, and other essential humanitarian services will be available in the south. That is still very much an open question as it appears that more humanitarian aid is starting to reach civilians in the Gaza Strip in the southern part of the country. But certainly not enough yet. And in terms of southern Gaza being a safe space it is also clear that Israeli airstrikes continue to target the southern path of the Gaza Strip, although certainly not as much as the northern part of the Gaza Strip.

What we also heard this evening from the IDF spokesman is a very clear and elaborate focus on targeting the leader of Hamas inside the Gaza Strip.

[15:15:09]

Yahya Sinwar saying -- the IDF spokesman saying that they will chase him until we reach him. He did not make clear whether the intent was to kill or capture Sinwar. But clearly there was a renewed focus on him this evening that we have not heard in some time.

ANDERSON: Meantime, concerns, and we've been voicing this now for three weeks, but it's clear, and we've just got a statement that I'm here in Qatar, that the Qatar emir PM made a call with the -- to Iran underscoring how important this is, this conflict doesn't slip out into the wider region. We are seeing the U.S. having those same conversations.

What do you make of the prospect or the concerns that this conflict could slip and slip significantly at this point?

DIAMOND: It certainly does seem that there is a significant risk of that potentially happening, one that was voiced today by the National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan who made clear that this is something that they are concerned about and actively working to mitigate those risks. We have watched as there have been increasing attacks on U.S. soldiers positioned in Syria today. We saw increasing military fighting between Israeli troops and Hezbollah militants in the northern Israel and southern Lebanon including the Israeli Air Force striking Hezbollah targets inside southern Lebanon.

And so this is certainly a tinderbox situation. And I think that as we are watching this ground operation expanding in Gaza, the ways in which it expands and how vast it becomes could also potentially be a factor in terms of the political pressures that Hezbollah feels in terms of how much and how intensely to begin striking northern Israel as well. So this is certainly a potentially tinderbox situation that we are watching unfold, and clearly the United States very keenly aware of that and trying to, you know, avoid this becoming a broader regional conflict.

ANDERSON: Jeremy, good to have you. Thank you very much indeed.

Let's take a closer look at Israel's ground operation in Gaza then and its possible strategy going forward. Amos Yadlin is a retired general and the former head of Israel's military intelligence, important guest to have on, joining me now live from Tel Aviv.

And it's good to have you, sir. What do you make of what we are seeing on the ground in Gaza and from the air. We ultimately know because we've been told there are two objectives here, you know, to dismantle Hamas and to get those hostages home. What do you make of the strategy and indeed of the tactics to enforce that strategy?

MAJ. GEN. AMOS YADLIN (RET.), FORMER IDF ATTACHE TO THE U.S.: Becky, I'm listening to you from the beginning of the hour on the humanitarian issue and you haven't mentioned the 9-year-old, 9-month- old baby, the 30 kids that are instead of going to school they are in the captivity under the terrorist. The women that were raped again and again.

ANDERSON: Sorry, sir. Can I just stop you? We have been talking about the hostages. We have. We've talked specifically. Sorry, sir. I was asking about -- I understand where you're at. We have talked about the hostages and you're making a very important point. We continue to talk about the babies, the women, the children who are held in captivity. This is an awful situation after what was an atrocious terrorist attack on October the 7th.

With respect, I was asking what you make of the tactics and the objectives here?

YADLIN: All humanitarian --

ANDERSON: Sorry, are you denying that the humanitarian story is not a good one, I mean, an important one?

YADLIN: No, I think you should be balanced.

ANDERSON: I don't think you -- no. no.

YADLIN: The responsibility of the humanitarian crisis --

ANDERSON: Let's talk about the tactics.

YADLIN: OK. It's not tactics, it's strategy. There is two important goals that the government of Israel directed the IDF to achieve. One is to destroy Hamas's government in Gaza that such in Holocaust Day will not return, will never again happen, and we are going to destroy Hamas. This is the way the U.S. destroyed al Qaeda in Afghanistan. The way the U.S. destroyed ISIS in Iraq and Syria, 2014 to 2019, took you five years.

Mosul was not looked different than Gaza when you attacked because you want to destroy a terror organization.

[15:20:07]

ISIS never ever raped and killed and beheaded kids.

ANDERSON: Understood. Can I just press you here? I specifically -- I thought it was very important to bring you on tonight to talk about the tactics that we are seeing. We heard loud and clear from the prime minister, from the defense minister, and the former defense minister last night that Israel will prevail and it will win. And they talked about the two specific objectives, dismantling Hamas, its government and its military, and bringing in those hostages home, which I outlined at the beginning of this conversation.

I would really appreciate it, I think it's incredibly important for our viewers that your experience, your enormous experience, we put into, you know, into trying to explain that we are seeing here on the ground. I think that would be so valuable if you wouldn't mind.

YADLIN: OK. I think the humanitarian status of Gaza is breaking my heart. However, the guy who can stop it is the head of the gang. It's Mohammed Sinwar. If he will put the Israeli hostages on trucks, and will drive them to Egypt, or to the Israeli border, the war will stop. The war will stop. But the head of the gang, Sinwar, a Nazi leader, doesn't care about Israelis, doesn't care about Gazans. He used the Gazans as human shields. He put his command post under the hospitals, under he shoots the rockets from --

ANDERSON: Can you explain what we're seeing on the ground? Because clearly he is a target. I mean, the IDF and the government have explained that all Hamas operatives are clear targets at this point. So given what we are seeing and what we have seen over the last 36 hours, how do you read how Israel is efforting the capture or the destruction of those Hamas assets including Sinwar?

YADLIN: Becky, if you remember it took you 10 years to find bin Laden. And you basically destroyed half of Afghanistan in your way. It took you five years to destroy ISIS. And here you are waiting for a five- day war. It is not going to be like that.

ANDERSON: No, no, I was asking --

YADLIN: Israel is very --

ANDERSON: With respect sir, I was asking you just to explain, perhaps provide us some analysis with what we're seeing on the ground. Perhaps it's too early for you to be able to do that. I appreciate it. By the way, I'm British.

YADLIN: What you see --

ANDERSON: But thank you.

YADLIN: The British -- shall I remind you what the British have done to Dresden, in Germany. You have a picture there, OK. But let me explain what the IDF is doing. First, they announced that anybody in the northern part of Gaza should evacuate to the southern part. Anybody who stayed around Hamas targets is in danger. Then they are getting into Gaza very slowly. It's not a blitzkrieg. It's very slowly to trying to target only the terrorists that fire at them. And they will do it very slowly.

ANDERSON: Understood.

YADLIN: They will go to every tunnel where the terrorists are there, and will find the terrorists and hopefully the hostages. This is the two strategic goals.

ANDERSON: OK. And that was made very clear that this would be a long fight when we heard the prime minister, the defense minister, and of course Benny Gantz, a former defense minister, speaking yesterday, sir.

Thank you, sir, for your insight.

We'll be right back with our other international news headlines. That is after this very short break. I'm Becky Anderson in Doha, in Qatar. Stay with us.

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NOBILO: Welcome back. I'm Bianca Nobilo in London.

The creators of "Friends" are joining a growing chorus of shock and sorrow over the death of a beloved actor Matthew Perry. The American Canadian star made his name with his witty portrayal of Chandler Bing on the sitcom that became a television phenomenon. The people who came up with the show are remembering Perry as a brilliant talent and someone with a giving and selfless heart.

He was found dead this weekend at his Los Angeles home. Perry was 54. Authorities say there was no foul play. Sources quoted in the "L.A. Times" say he died in an apparent drowning accident. And more tributes to Matthew Perry are pouring in from around the world including condolences from Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau. And we'll have more on all of the reaction plus what the actor and writer hoped he'd be remembered for, and that's coming up just a little later on in this hour.

Now we want to update you on what's happening in the U.S. state of Maine following this week's mass shooting that left 18 people dead. As more news turned out for a candlelight vigil this weekend, an official from the White House Gun Violence Prevention Office is heading to the town of Lewiston. The White House says it wants to support the devastated community.

And the death toll in Mexico from Hurricane Otis has risen to 43 people. That's according to the region's government. The category five hurricane hit Mexico's (INAUDIBLE) state early on Wednesday causing widespread destruction. According to preliminary assessments, more than 200,000 homes have been impacted and 80 percent of the area's hotels were damaged.

The Amazon River is usually teeming with life and providing a highway for commerce in South America. Now the region is facing its worst drought in decades and everything and everyone that depends on it is suffering.

Stefano Pozzebon takes a look at that for you.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STEFANO POZZEBON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Under normal circumstances you shouldn't be able to see these carvings that may date back some 2,000 years. Usually they lie underwater submerged by the Amazon River, near the Brazilian city of Manaus.

BEATRIZ CARNEIRO, BRAZILIAN HISTORICAL AND ARTISTIC HERITAGE INSTITUTE (through translator): Unfortunately, the Amazon is facing the worst drought in 120 years. These carbons have surfaced here in 2010 and we could study them. Now they have reappeared because of this year's drought.

POZZEBON: The drought has impacted every form of life on the river. While it's normal to have a dry season this time of the year experts believe this year's extreme drought is due to rising temperatures around the world combined with a particularly intense El Nino effect in the Pacific Ocean. Transportation has been hampered because boats cannot navigate in the shallow waters. Exports of soy and grains have been reduced and wildlife tourism all but halted.

And animals like these river dolphins impacted by rising water temperatures are dying at record numbers.

MARIANA PASCHOALINI FRIAS, BIOLOGIST, WWF BRAZIL: And that is why it's so important if we take a very deep look inside what's happening in our rainforest. Because they are (INAUDIBLE). They are telling about the river is suffering, the fish is suffering, and the people are suffering.

POZZEBON: Normal temperature of the water is about 86 degrees Fahrenheit. But WWF says its researchers this week registered record temperature of more than 105, too hot for the dolphins to survive.

FRIAS: People know things are going wrong with the planet. And we're now taking actions right now with the much more difficult than 20 years ago. Because now that the climate change is real, it's not more of a perspective, but we are living in climate change and we need to take action.

[15:30:04]

POZZEBON (on-camera): Now this week Colombia together with Brazil, Bolivia, Ecuador, Peru, and Venezuela signed an agreement to protect the river dolphins in the Amazon basin. But activists believe that emissions need to be drastically cut all across the world to preserve the rainforest.

For CNN, this is Stefano Pozzebon, Bogota.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NOBILO: When we come back, a look inside one of Gaza's largest hospitals after Israeli officials issue an ominous warning.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON: Welcome back. Here's the latest on the escalating fighting inside Gaza. The Palestinian Red Crescent says Israeli airstrikes are causing damage to the Al-Quds Hospital. That is the second largest hospital in Gaza City with beds full of critical patients. Israel has told the Red Crescent to evacuate the facility and has warned that Hamas fighters are hiding in and around that facility.

Well, meanwhile, Israel pushing into northern Gaza. CNN has seen evidence of Israeli troops at least two miles inside the Gaza Strip. The IDF says it's conducted more than 450 airstrikes in the past day targeting Hamas command centers and missile sites.

These strikes in Khan Younis were conducted just hours ago. The footage taken by a CNN producer in that city.

While the violence between Israel and Hamas rages on, the U.S. warns the war could escalate into a wider conflict in the Middle East. They are clearly concerned. The White House says the risk is real of a spillover conflict as Iranian proxies continue to target U.S. troops stationed in the region.

Here's U.S. National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JAKE SULLIVAN, U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: We of course are taking every measure necessary to protect our forces, to increase our vigilance, and to work with other countries in the region to try to keep this conflict that is currently in Israel and Gaza from spinning out into a regional conflict. But the risk is real, and therefore vigilance is high.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Well, for more let's bring in CNN's Ben Wedeman. He joins us now from Beirut, Lebanon.

The risk is high, a very real risk Jake Sullivan says, that this conflict could escalate into a wider regional conflict.

Ben, from your perspective, what do you make of what you're hearing from the U.S. about those concerns?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake Sullivan is in this case probably very right.

[15:35:04]

Certainly what we are seeing is that this conflict between Gaza and Israel has really sparked more tensions than we've seen in all the other conflicts over the last 13 years. For instance, the 2008, 2009, 2014, 2020, '21,'22 and '23 conflicts did not involve, did not sort of bring in so many players, for instance. On the 8th of October, the day after that Hamas surprise attack on Israel, Hezbollah started to open fire on Israeli targets and that has been going on every day since. Today in particular more intense than in recent days.

And we did hear from Ebrahim Raisi, the Iranian president, on social media. He said that Israel in its operations in Gaza has, in his words, crossed the red lines which he said may force everyone to take action. Now what kind of action that could be beyond what's going on already is hard to say but certainly what we're seeing is that with the growing death toll in Gaza which according to the Palestinian Ministry of Health is now almost 8,000, 73 percent according to the Ministry of Health, women, children, and the elderly.

This is raising the temperature to the point where it is more likely, not probable, but increasingly possible that the situation is going to get out of control. And not just of course on the border between Lebanon and Israel, we are already seeing U.S. forces being targeted in Iraq, in Syria, and also the Houthis apparently trying to fire weapons in Israel. So certainly all the pieces are in place, Becky, for more trouble to come.

ANDERSON: And Ben, Israel's ground operation in Gaza is being roundly condemned around this region, not least here in Qatar, in Turkey, in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and in the UAE. Concerns about all civilians caught up in this humanitarian catastrophe. And the risk of this conflict escalating around the region is not lost on any of these regional leaders.

Ben, thank you.

The foreign minister of Qatar where I am tonight spoke to Iran's foreign minister today saying he stressed the need for an immediate cease-fire. In a statement Qatar said -- it highlighted the risk of a spillover of violence on the conflict cycle in the region which would have dire consequences.

Well, for more on the regional implications of this conflict, I'm delighted to say I'm joined by H.A. Hellyer. He's a senior associate fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, a good friend of the show that I normally anchor, "CONNECT THE WORLD." He joins me from Ciro in Egypt.

I want to talk more about the regional reaction, but I do first just want to get your take about what is happening inside Gaza at present. What's your analysis?

H.A. HELLYER, SENIOR ASSOCIATE FELLOW, CARNEGIE ENDOWMENT FOR INTERNATIONAL PEACE: So, first, thank you very much, Becky, for bringing me on the program. I think the Israelis have been giving quite a lot of contradictory information as to what their aims are. But there are two things that are very clear. One is that they're looking for a total removal of Hamas as a force in Gaza. And it's unclear if that's achievable or not.

That depends on how much total actually means and how long the U.S. will insist on, quote-unquote, "no red lines" as the White House stated this weekend, as the death toll mounts among Palestinian civilians. The second is there's a very clear and very undeniable trend and direction of the Israelis to achieve some kind of population shift of Palestinians. The question is how much, the question isn't if, the Israelis are really talking about, quote-unquote, buffer zones inside Gaza's territory where Palestinians cannot be.

And you have multiple statements now from different government ministers and officials, and government adjacent analysts describing the possibility of permanent exclusion of Palestinian civilians from parts of Gaza into other parts of Gaza and further beyond, into Egypt, creating another wave of humanitarian refugee crisis.

Now it's unclear at the moment if the Israeli government as a whole has agreed to this as the policy yet. But we already have seen reports of Israeli military destroying and demolishing Palestinian residential buildings in northern Gaza. So this is a very bad sign.

[15:40:01]

Can they achieve it? That's not really a question about Israel, that's more a question about Washington, D.C., because if left to its own devices the Netanyahu government already has elements of the far-right within it, and there would be a lot of support for that type of expulsion of Palestinians and relocating them to Egypt or elsewhere among the Israeli elites. So the question is whether D.C. will rein them in or not.

ANDERSON: Yes. And we have heard the demands from both Egypt and Jordan, the red line that they say is the forced displacement of Palestinians out of Gaza into Egypt and Jordan. There has clearly been at the outset of this some pressure from the international community, I haven't been told by whom exactly to lean on, Egypt and Jordan, for that very acquiescence. And certainly both countries have said very loudly that is a red line, which brings me to my next point.

What is day two in this? I know we're now in day 20. By which I mean what is tomorrow look like for Gaza. If the Israelis are successful in dismantling Hamas, what happens next? How do you read what any plans are for how Gaza is run, who lives there, and what happens next?

HELLYER: So there's another big problem that we have at the moment. The Israelis haven't really given much in the way of a plan to the point where there's been reports of American officials who are obviously not looking to make things awkward for the Israeli allies, but there have been reports of them being shocked at how little in the way of planning this has actually been in terms of the medium to the long term.

And unfortunately, what you have seen are these different reports and these different plans that have been from government adjacent, sort of think tanks and analysts, or government spokespeople from different ministries and so on, that are talking the most outlandish and bizarre sorts of ways. And it doesn't help matters when you have the Israeli prime minister himself quoting biblical scripture where he's talking really about mass murder on an incredible scale.

So we're not really at the point where the Israelis themselves have thought about what happens the day after. On the contrary, when they're asked about this they get very annoyed. We've seen this in international media, where they say, well, you know, during Second World War, you went after the Nazis. You didn't think about what you're going to do next. Of course this is not the Second World War and this is in that sort of conflict.

On the contrary, Gaza is an occupied territory by the Israeli state. It's not some sort of, you know, superpower that's battling against it or something. So there are these concerns even among Israel's allies in the international community which are dwindling I have to say a number. The United Nations General Assembly gave a resounding support to a resolution calling for a cease-fire only a couple of days ago. And it was only the United States and very, very few others who lined up behind Israel to vote against that resolution.

So there is this concern that even among allies of Israel there is concern that, OK, you haven't thought this through, and other things are happening at the same time, the risk of escalation and regionalization of the conflict is increasing. There's more violence on the West Bank where extremist settlers are continuing to displace Palestinians from their homes, and engage in extrajudicial killings. And we've seen that over the last few days.

This is not a situation where the Israelis are calling for a well- thought-out plan nor for calm, and it's really creating a lot of angst I think among even their friends, even their allies in the international community. ANDERSON: And we've certainly been discussing that this evening. The

outright condemnation of this latest phase in the ground operation by Gaza. There will be an emergency meeting as we understand it at the United Nations Security Council tomorrow where it appears there are some efforts to try and get a resolution from the 15 P-5 Plus, the 10 revolving members to echo what was voted for at the U.N. General Assembly. That of course is a nonbinding resolution at the UNGA. More of a moral statement, a moral call.

The U.N. Security Council resolution which echoed a call for a sustained cease-fire or humanitarian pause at least would go some way to certainly temper the concerns of this region which is looking at the fear and the risk of escalation.

H.A., it's good to have you. Thank you, sir.

Stay with CNN. We'll be right back.

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[15:47:13]

NOBILO: Matthew Perry is being remembered as a sweet, troubled soul by some of those who knew him best including the creators of the hit TV show "Friends," which made him a household name. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENNIFER ANISTON, ACTRESS, "FRIENDS": Only one banana nut muffin left.

COURTNEY COX, ACTRESS, "FRIENDS": I ordered mine first.

MATTHEW PERRY, ACTOR, "FRIENDS": Yes, but I'm so much faster.

COX: Give it to me.

PERRY: No.

COX: Give it to me.

PERRY: OK. You can have it.

COX: There you go, enjoy your coffee.

PERRY: That was there when I got here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBILO: But the beloved star who made millions laugh by playing Chandler Bing suffered through years of addiction. Perry once said what he really wanted was to help others who were going through the same pain.

To talk about this I want to bring in CNN's Camila Bernal.

Camila, there's a particular poetic nature to this tragedy, when you have someone who has made millions upon millions of people laugh and find joy and relief sometimes struggled so much themselves to the extent that he said in his memoir that was published last year that he couldn't watch "Friends" because each season reminded him of his struggles with different addictions.

CAMILA BERNAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Bianca. And I think that's also what made him relatable and why so many people loved him and the characters that he played on TV and movies. People expressing shock and sadness, and also expressing their love for him.

Just in terms of the investigations the Los Angeles Police Department is the one in charge of that death investigation, and sources have told us that no foul play is suspected here. We know his body is already in the hands of the Los Angeles County Medical Examiner's Office. And an autopsy is pending. Now the "L.A. Times" reporting an apparent drowning accident and so we do not have an exact cause of death at the moment. And it's also important to point out that a complete autopsy and toxicology report could take several weeks before it's made public.

Now his family did release a statement to "People" magazine saying they are heartbroken by the tragic loss of a beloved brother and son. They also went on to say in that statement that he brought joy to the world not just as an actor but also as a friend. And Matthew Perry was someone who said he wanted to be remembered as someone who helped others. And it's part of the reason why he shared his struggles with addiction, saying that he wanted to help people one-on-one, in a group, but also just by sharing what he went through in his memoir.

He also had said that he wanted to be remembered as someone who lived well, loved well, and as someone who was a seeker.

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Of course we know him by his career in acting and most notably his character as Chandler on "Friends." He was so funny, sarcastic, and made so many people laugh. The cast of "Friends" very close on and off screen. And we've yet to hear from them but we are hearing from others in Hollywood who are saying that they're just devastated and really expressing that love and saying that this is a huge loss for Hollywood and of course for all his fans -- Bianca.

NOBILO: Camila Bernal, thank you so much for joining us with that.

And Becky Anderson will be right back after this break with the latest on the Israel-Hamas war. Stay with us.

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ANDERSON: I'm Becky Anderson. You're watching CNN.

Joe Biden and Benjamin Netanyahu spoke by phone earlier. Their first conversation since Israeli troops began their incursions into northern Gaza. U.S. officials say they are telling the Israeli leadership it is important to protect civilian lives even as Israel tries to root out Hamas terrorists who he accuses of using civilian areas and facilities for cover.

U.S. president also spoke to Egyptian President Abdel Fattah El-Sisi on Sunday. They discussed efforts to ensure that the conflict in Gaza does not spread to other parts of the region. Well, the U.S. president spending the weekend at his home in Wilmington in Delaware. That is where CNN's Kevin Liptak is.

What do you make of what we heard discussed?

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, we got a little hint of what these two men were going to be talking about when we heard from the U.S. National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan earlier today in that interview that he did with Jake Tapper really kind of underscoring this line that the U.S. is walking in this conflict.

Of course there is this staunch support for Israel. Its right to defend itself. Its duty, as Jake Sullivan, said to defend itself. But also this call to abide by international law to protect the lives of civilians.

Listen to a little bit of what Jake Sullivan told Jake Tapper earlier today.

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SULLIVAN: What we believe is that every hour, every day of this military operation, the IDF, the Israeli government should be taking every possible means available to them to distinguish between Hamas --

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: And are they?

SULLIVAN: -- terrorists who are legitimate military targets and civilians who are not. And I'm not going to react to every strike, every move that they make. What I'm going to say is that is our principle. That is our advice to them. That is what we are communicating. And we continue to do that at the highest levels.

The president will speak again with the prime minister in a few hours' time today. And he will continue to reiterate the United States's position on this issue. It is clear, it is straightforward and we believe that it is rooted in the fundamental laws of war.

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LIPTAK: So what you don't hear in there is any criticism of Israel's response, either overt or implied. And certainly that is the strategy by the United States, to hold Israel close, to support its right to defend itself, but to offer in private what they call these tough questions about the scope of the ground invasion, about Israel's intentions, about what they want to achieve going forward.

And of course this expanded ground invasion in Israel is also complicating some of the American objectives there, principally this effort to get the hostages who are in Gaza released.

[15:55:11]

Jake Sullivan did say that those efforts are still going forward. He said that the U.S. was in hourly touch with its regional partners, most principally, as you know very well, Becky, the government of Qatar which has been trying to broker some kind of agreement to get a large number of hostages out.

The other effort that this could complicate is getting Americans who are stuck in Gaza out of the strip. They have been unable so far to cross that border into Egypt. Jake Sullivan did say today that the Egyptians are willing to take foreign nationals, but that it's Hamas that is proving difficult at this point in time.

There was an interesting line in the readout of President Biden's call with Abdel Fattah El-Sisi, the Egyptian president. He said that they talked about the need to ensure that Palestinians in Gaza are not displaced to Egypt or any other nation. So making clear that Egypt is not willing to take Palestinians but they are willing to take foreign nationals -- Becky.

ANDERSON: Kevin, thank you.

We're going to take a very short break. Stay with CNN for our continuing coverage.

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