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United States Official: Hamas Blocking Foreigners From Leaving Gaza Until Israel Allows Ambulances To Reach Border; White House: More Than 100 United States Citizens Have Left Gaza; Blinken Meets With Arab Leaders In Jordan Today; Thousands Expected To Attend Pro- Palestine March In D.C.; U.S. Expects Shift in Israel's Strategy Against Hamas; Donald Trump And His Children Are Taking The Witness Stand In Civil Trial. Aired 12-1p ET

Aired November 04, 2023 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:34]

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. Thank you so much for joining us. I'm Fredricka Whitfield in Atlanta, along with Wolf Blitzer in Tel Aviv. Wolf, we'll get you in a moment.

We begin with dramatic new developments in Israel's war with Hamas, where Israeli troops are closing in on Gaza City.

Moments ago, U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken, joined Arab foreign ministers in Jordan for a high stakes meeting, where Blinken spoke about the need for Israel to continue its attacks against Hamas.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONY BLINKEN, UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF STATE: It's our view that a ceasefire now, it simply leave Hamas in place, able to regroup and repeat what it did on October 7th.

And you don't have to take my word for it. Just a few days ago, a senior Hamas official said that it was their intent due October 7th again and again and again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Meantime, more heavy shelling pounding the Gaza Strip again today. Massive explosions are sending shockwaves throughout the enclave.

And significant developments at the Rafah Border Crossing, between Egypt and Gaza. A U.S. official says Hamas is now blocking foreign nationals from exiting Gaza, until Israel guarantees that ambulances from Gaza can reach the crossing.

A source tells CNN, more than 700 people are waiting to cross into Egypt, including nearly 400 Americans.

Wolf, to you in Tel Aviv.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: All right. Fred, thank you. We have teams of reporters on the ground, covering all these late breaking developments. CNN's Nic Robertson is near the Gaza border. He is in Israel.

Nic, we've seen several new strikes in Gaza once again today, including one at a U.N.-run school. I understand some sirens are going off right now.

Let's listen in for a second. And Nic, Nic is in Sderot, Israel. He has just stepped away for safety reasons. But I want to hear what's going on and see what's going on. These are live pictures you're seeing from our camera in Sderot.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes. Wolf, you should be able to hear me now. We heard the sirens of incoming rocket strikes from Gaza, coming onto this city. So, we took shelter.

Those strikes seem to be over at the moment. And we did hear a couple of what sounded like intercepts a couple of very heavy detonations and explosions.

So, it does seem that this evening, more rockets are being fired out of Gaza. But I think, you're also talking there about the strike, and apparently, an Israeli strike on a U.N.-run school facility inside the Jabalia camp, the Al-Fakhoura School.

According to the U.N. relief and refugee agency in Gaza, they say that the school was housing about 16,000 people, displaced by the fighting. And many of them were sort of camping out in tents in the school ground.

And according to that U.N. agency, the strike, the blast hit in that yard, that open area where the people were in tents. And they say that 15 people were killed -- 15 civilians were killed, they say, and seven -- and 70 of them injured in that particular school.

The IDF hasn't spoken about this yet. But what the IDF has been talking about today is the humanitarian corridor that they've been running from the north of Gaza to the south of Gaza, on Al Salahuddin street. And they opened it between local times 1:00 p.m. and 4:00 p.m. so that civilians could move from the north to the south.

And the IDF just in the last few hours -- last hour or so, said that while their troops were helping facilitate that humanitarian corridor, they say they were attacked by mortar and anti-tank missiles fired by Hamas.

So, that humanitarian corridor not as safe as it might seem. We've also heard from a couple of hospitals in Gaza today, the al-Wafa Hospital, they say that their main generator was hit in a strike. We don't have more details about that, but they are saying that the 70 patients in their hospital, they can't treat them.

[12:05:01]

And the al-Quds Hospital in the Gaza Strip in Gaza City itself, there was a strike very close outside that hospital. And witnesses talk about destruction of the building opposite very, very close to a hospital. 21 people injured there. Again, we don't have additional details on that front from the IDF yet.

But it paints a picture today of these ongoing military operations, Wolf, that are really -- the sort of backdrop to everything that we see and hear from here.

But again, despite those ongoing operations, clearly, Hamas or other groups are able to fire missiles into Israel as they just did a couple of minutes ago.

BLITZER: And very quickly, Nic, before I let you go, you mentioned that it looked like some rockets were being fired from Gaza into Israel. And it seemed like the Israel's Iron Dome system intercepted those rockets and blew them up not far away from you are in Sderot, in Israel, along the border with Gaza right now.

I take it Hamas is doing this fairly regularly. Despite what Israel is doing in Gaza, they apparently still have the capability of launching rockets against the targets in Israel. Is that right?

ROBERTSON: Yes, absolutely. They do, Wolf. And there's a sort of a certain amount of regularity. The same time yesterday, they fired, I mean, almost to the minute. Right at 6:00 local here, 6:00 local yesterday, they fired mortars on to another position in Sderot. Again, right at the top of the hour, at the top of the hour here.

Again, and it perhaps gives the appearance because Hamas has done this multiple times. Fire close to the top of the hour, at the top of the hour when they think, perhaps, or it appears they think perhaps that there will be media broadcast going on, and they can catch some attention.

So, even the timing of the very few rockets, they fire seem designed to send a particular message. Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes, where the past few days, we've had the sirens going off, all the way up here in Tel Aviv, which is clearly much further away from Gaza than where you are in Sderot.

And we've seen some rockets coming in, the Iron Dome intercepted them, blew them up in the sky, and everyone was fine.

But that's clearly Hamas still has that capability.

Nic Robertson in Sderot. Stay safe over there. We're going to get back to you soon with all the late breaking developments.

Right now, I want to go to that major development that Hamas is blocking foreign nationals including American citizens from departing Gaza. That according to a U.S. official.

A source says more than 700 foreign nationals were expected to cross the Rafah border from Gaza into Egypt earlier today. But now, Hamas is demanding guarantees that ambulances from Gaza will be allowed to reach the Rafah crossing before it allows any more evacuations.

All this comes as the White House says the U.S. Embassy in Cairo has helped more than 100 U.S. citizens and families get out of Gaza since Wednesday.

CNN's Melissa Bell is joining us live from Cairo right now. Melissa, what more are you learning about Hamas decision to block these foreign nationals, including Americans from leaving, leaving Gaza and getting into Egypt and Rafah?

MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, to put that demand into context, Wolf, you'll remember that yesterday afternoon, there had been an IDF strike very quickly claimed by the IDF just outside Gaza's biggest hospital, the Al-Shifa Hospital.

Several ambulances had been hit, 15 people were killed. There were 50 or so wounded. Of course, the -- according to the Palestinian health ministry and the hospital officials, very quickly, the IDF claimed responsibility, but claims as it has repeatedly throughout this war that it was targeting the hospital because it is -- says Israel, a command-and-control center for Hamas, and that it was targeting a -- an ambulance, in particular, because it believed that it was carrying weapons and fighters for Hamas.

Now, what we heard from hospital officials is that, in fact, the convoy that was targeted was a convoy that had been heading south to the Rafah crossing. You remember that this deal to get foreign and dual nationals out of Gaza was struck with between Israel, Hamas, and Egypt or through the Qataris, and with American help, alongside a deal to get the most wounded Palestinians out.

What we saw for three days' week, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, were both foreign nationals, and the most -- some of the most severely wounded Palestinians, getting across to the safety of Egypt.

Now, in the wake of that attack on the al-Shifa Hospital, and the images that came out, and I should say, not just the Palestinian claims, Wolf, that this had been a legitimate convoy that was seeking to get to Rafah with the most wounded.

Very quickly afterwards, the International Red Cross and Red Crescent, came out with a statement also saying that it had been a -- made aware as part of the deal to get these ambulances down to the south, that there was a convoy leaving the al-Shifa Hospital at that time getting to Rafah.

[12:10:06]

And I think, that is what led to this latest demand. So far, as you say, no one has got through the Rafah crossing today.

I'd like you to have a listen though, to one of the wonders who did get through on those three days. The young Palestinian American boy. And it's a reminder, Wolf, of the fact that even though she did get through on the days that they did get through, it came with lots of complication, in this case, having to leave part of his family behind him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FARAH SALOUHA, 11-YEAR-OLD PALESTINIAN-AMERICAN EVACUATED FROM GAZA: My dad told me to be safe, and he hugged me, and he kissed my forehead, because he is very worried about me.

And he told me that he loves me and to stay safe, and always remember.

I'm very sad because I love all my friends, especially, in school, because they -- I was always happy with them. And I miss being happy instead of just worrying about my sister all the time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BELL: So, a lot of sadness there. Of course, we'll put again, one of those who managed to get through for now. The Rafah crossing entirely blocked. And very difficult to see when and if it will be open again, Wolf.

BLITZER: All right. Melissa Bell, in Cairo for us for an update. We'll stay in close touch with you as well.

Meanwhile, the efforts to -free the hostages held by Hamas, that effort continues. Israel believes more than 240 people are being held captive in Gaza. Right now, at least 33 of those kidnapped, I believe to be children.

I'm joined now by Gershon Baskin. He is the Middle East director of the international community's organization. He has extensive experience negotiating the release of hostages. In 2011, he instigated the peace negotiations with Hamas that resulted in the release of that Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit.

Gershon, thanks so much for joining us. I know you've been working as an unofficial negotiator to try to help release some of these hostages being held by Hamas.

First of all, Gershon, what can you tell us about the status of any talks you have had recently with Hamas.

GERSHON BASKIN, UNOFFICIAL ISRAELI NEGOTIATOR: I can tell you what I -- what I assess is happening, because I have little in real information from any of the parties at this time. They've basically gone radio silent over the last days, which is usually an indication that something serious is happening.

My assessment is that the track that is being run in Qatar is not moving forward, as expected. That it seems from what I'm able to assess that the political leadership in Hamas is somewhat disconnected to what's going on under the ground in Gaza.

And I understand that there is a much better chance through the Egyptian channel. But today, you also learn there might be another third track going on, which I can't give details about, which the Americans are actually indirectly involved in if started. So, these are very intensive talks. The time is running out clearly. The moment that the Israeli army enters the tunnels, the hostages are at in harm's way as the Israeli soldiers advance inside the massive tunnel network. On the other side of the hostages, of course, are the Hamas fighters.

BLITZER: I have heard it -- tell me if this is true or not, that, that third track might actually be Turkey, which apparently has some contacts with Hamas. I know the Secretary of State Antony Blinken, after he wraps up his talks in Amman, Jordan, with the Arab foreign ministers. He's going to be heading to Turkey, which is a NATO ally, as all of us, of course, know.

Is Turkey involved in trying to get these hostages out?

BASKIN: I know early on -- already a month ago, the Turks were wanting the first approach. There are good relations between the Israeli intelligence and the Turkish intelligence. To the best of my knowledge that has not been one of the major tracks. And it's not the one that I heard about today that I haven't received confirmation on. But I heard, if it is happening, it might be the one that can make this happen.

Of course, we don't know if they're talking about the deal that Hamas has proposed of all, for all, all of the hostages, for all of the prisoners in Israel, which is an almost impossible deal for Israel to accept, or whether or not they're working on the humanitarian release of infants, children, women, elderly, sick, and wounded.

That's a much more limited release. But that's the one that Hamas should be making immediately, without any question, because it's against the Quran. It's against their own beliefs to attack women and children and elderly people. It's against the Quran to even hold them as hostages.

BLITZER: As someone who has worked in these back channels, Gershon to try to get Hamas to release Israelis. And I know you've got a lot of experience in dealing with them. Are you upbeat? Are you optimistic or pessimistic that those more than 240 hostages taken out of Israel into Gaza on October 7th will be released?

[12:15:06]

BASKIN: To be truly honest, I think about the worst and hope for the best. I think it is a moral responsibility of the government of Israel to bring these hostages home, because Israel failed to protect them. I think that the government of Israel at the end of the day will be willing to pay a very high price to bring them home.

But we have a problem in Israel, because currently we have a very weakened prime minister, and a government of ministers who do not necessarily support any deal with Hamas of any kind.

The only way to bring all the hostages home will be through an agreement with Hamas. There is no way to rescue them all. We might be able to rescue some of them. But surely, many of them will not be rescued in military operations.

So, we have to pursue and exhaust every possibility of any kind of agreement with Hamas, even though we know that the final goal of Israel in this war is to dismantle Hamas' ability to govern and to threaten Israel ever again.

BLITZER: Gershon Baskin, thank you so much for joining us.

BASKIN: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: All right. I want to go right now to CNN's Jennifer Hansler. She is joining us from Amman, Jordan. She is traveling with the Secretary of State Antony Blinken, who himself, just spoke about all these issues moments ago.

Jennifer, update our viewers, what did the Secretary say?

JENNIFER HANSLER, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT REPORTER: Well, Wolf, Secretary Blinken really wanted to reiterate that the U.S. and its Arab partners are on the same page about the objectives for this war that they want to see this come to an end eventually in a sustainable way, and they want to see civilians protected.

However, he could not dispute that there are differences between the positions of himself and the ministers with whom he met today. Most notably, the Egyptian foreign minister, the Jordanian foreign minister, who he spoke with at this press conference, all again called for a ceasefire.

This is something the U.S. continues to oppose. They say it would give Hamas leverage to regroup and attack Israel.

Again, they are instead calling for these humanitarian pauses. This is something the Secretary spoke at length about with his Israeli counterparts yesterday in Tel Aviv. Today, Blinken was able to brief his counterparts here in Amman about those discussions yesterday.

And he'd, again, really wanted to underline though, that they are all working towards this common goal. This is how he put it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLINKEN: We come together here today, sharing the same fundamental interests and objectives: to end this conflict in a way that ensures lasting peace and security in the region.

We may have different views and positions and certain necessary steps to achieve that objective, but today, we reaffirmed our individual commitments to continuing to work for that end, end that we share.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HANSLER: And now from here, Wolf, Blinken will travel onto Turkey, where he will meet with another very staunch office -- opponent to this war in Israel. President Erdogan. He today, said he was cutting off ties with Netanyahu. So, a lot to see what's going to come from this trip, Wolf.

BLITZER: Did officials that you're traveling with, with the secretary of state, given an explanation of why the Secretary has decided to head off to Turkey, after wrapping up his talks with Arab foreign ministers in Amman, Jordan, where you are Jennifer?

HANSLER: Well, Wolf, if these trips are always kind of a work in progress, they're always influx. So, it -- likely was under discussion for a while about where else Blinken should travel while he is in the region, while he is trying to prevent this escalation from growing from the conflict from spreading. And, of course, Turkey is a key partner in this. They do host Hamas leadership there.

So, he will be bringing this message about the need to prevent any racial conflagration onto him, with him to Turkey. Wolf?

BLITZER: Yes. I thought it was significant, very significant development that Turkey decided to recall its ambassador from Israel back to Turkey. And Erdogan, the leader of Turkey issued a very, very tough, angry statement against Israel in the midst of all of this as well.

We'll see what happens on that front. Jennifer Hansler, traveling with the secretary of state in Amman, Jordan. Thank you very, very much.

Meanwhile, thousands are gathering at the National Mall in Washington this hour to march in solidarity with Palestinians at -- as protests over the Israel-Hamas war continue across the world. We're going to take you there right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:23:43]

WHITFIELD: All right. Welcome back. Happening right now, pro- Palestinian demonstrators are gathering in Washington, D.C. to demand a ceasefire in the Israel-Hamas war.

You're looking at live pictures right now at Freedom Plaza, in the nation's capital. Organizers expect thousands to join in the march, which ends with a vigil across the street from the White House.

CNN correspondent Gabe Cohen, joining us live from the National Mall in D.C.

And so, Gabe, we are seeing these live pictures. It looks like a pretty significant turnout. And the march is still what about an hour and a half away from officially beginning?

GABE COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Fred. They decided to move up. Some of the speeches. So, actually, we're expecting some of the speeches to get going in just a few minutes on that stage behind us.

These people have come from all over the country. People being brought in largely by bus, by some of the organizations that are participating in this rally. And look, organizers told me they think this is going to be the largest free Palestine rally in U.S. history. That remains to be seen.

You can see the crowd is still gathering behind me. We have seen a lot of people coming in. And we know that those speeches are going to continue on that stage until right around 4:00 p.m. And that's when these demonstrators are going to march just a couple blocks to the White House, which is just beyond where we're standing. And they are going to rally there.

[12:25:03]

What we're not expecting, Fred, is any sort of organized civil disobedience today. As we have seen during some of the rallies here in Washington in recent weeks, we've seen hundreds of arrests outside the White House. Protesters who are blocking entrances, or protesters who took over spaces on Capitol Hill.

What we are likely to see is, again, more political pressure, Fred, on President Biden to call for a ceasefire. We've heard political leaders like Rashida Tlaib, say that they could pull support in 2024. That's what a lot of these voters are also saying. We'll see Fred, what we hear in the coming hours.

WHITFIELD: OK. We'll keep a check -- we will keep checking with you. Gabe Cohen there in Washington, D.C. Thank you so much.

All right. Right now, I'm also joined by Rula Jebreal from more perspective. She is a journalist and foreign policy analysts.

Rula, great to see you. So, organizers expect, you know, a massive turnout today. Already, it looks like a pretty sizable turnout to show solidarity for the Palestinian people. How influential do you believe it will be?

RULA JEBREAL, JOURNALIST: The real question is, will it affect the White House and their consideration? Because they seem oblivious to the fact that 66 percent of American voters on both sides of the spectrum, by the way, with, you know, both affiliation, believe we need a ceasefire.

But also, the overwhelming majority of Americans wants President Biden to condition military aid, the $14 billion that he wants to send to Bibi Netanyahu to some kind of mechanist where the warfare that Israel is waging is lawful, is legal, followed international law.

And they are seeing that this is not being done. Actually, there see, also the conversation within the state department where criticism of these kinds of approaches are being silenced, people are resigning.

I mean, the administration is violating America's own law. The Leahy law that indicates that any recipient of military aid cannot violate human rights, civil rights -- cannot commit war crimes.

Yet, in the case of Israel, there is strong indication with the images of bombing of hospitals, of schools, of refugees, of refugee camps, of honor, you know, shelters, you're seeing an indication that there is no proportionality.

That yes, in the name of killing one military leader, they are willing to wipe out entire families. And that is the issue at the heart -- at the heart what leads those protesters.

Some of these protesters are regular students, are kids who are Jewish, who are Muslims, who are Christian. Also, look at the discourse in Washington and think it's totally detached from the reality on the ground.

WHITFIELD: So, Rula, you use the word oblivious that you believe the White House is oblivious. You know, to what is really going on here. And while the Secretary of State Antony Blinken is in Jordan, he is met with, you know, Arab allies, while for a moment the White House was saying, let's have a humanitarian pause.

Blinken today, then said, well, wait a minute, you know, a ceasefire might give Hamas a moment to regroup. What is your thought, your reaction to the posture of the state department now saying a ceasefire would give him an opportunity to regroup and perhaps that's not such a great idea after all.

JEBREAL: The issue with that statement that what the Jordanians and what Arab allies -- and not even Arab allies, he is not even listening to the Spanish, who are telling you, we are going to impose an arm ban on Israel.

He's not even listening to the global south that are so outraged because for a year, senator -- you know, Blinken -- Secretary Blinken and others told him, in the case of Ukraine, we need to stand by, you know, international rules order. We need to defend international legality.

And the case of Israel because of its occupation, 57 years of occupation, we can disregard that. And the issue -- the main issue to all of these leaders, they are not telling them not to fight Hamas, they're telling them to protect civilians.

Israel wouldn't allow those civilians -- wouldn't open basically a pathway for the civilians to join their families in the West Bank, in the occupied territories in, you know, in the West Bank, in east Jerusalem and elsewhere.

You know, the fact that they have total disregard for civilian lives, they even call them human animals. They call them monsters. You know, Bibi Netanyahu quoted even the Bible saying we will decimate child, children, and animals, and everybody.

So, that kind of rhetoric, you know, is heard by the world, and it's followed by what Israel is doing, the kind of bombardment and discriminant -- not proportional.

[12:30:00]

In the eyes of the world, this is unacceptable. And they're trying to push the administration to tell the administration. Look, this is becoming in the eyes of the global south and American war, when President Biden is unwilling to do anything except mild criticism. It's on him. You break it, you own it.

And they're very concerned that this will blow up the entire region, not only Israel and Palestine. This will have repercussions on Europe, radicalization, mass refugees, and on the entire region. And President Biden is still suck in his idea that, yes, defending Israel, unconditionally, regardless, whatever their policy are, whether it's in East Jerusalem, or in the West Bank, and we see the violence, you know, ruptured in the West Bank by settlers who are killing mass Palestinians.

I mean, 140 Palestinians were killed in the last three weeks. And there's no Hamas there. This is what the world is pointing out to as double standard, and above all, the illusion of this administration and terrible policies.

So I hope they listen to the protests in the street. Because, alternatively, Americans will be asked in 2024, do you want another war? Because Biden is seem to be leading them towards another war in the Middle East.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: All right, we'll leave it there for now. Rula Jebreal, thank you so much. And again, right now, dozens of people have turned out there in the nation's capitol, we're going to continue to watch that demonstration taking place pro-Palestinian rally, and before people start marching their way to the White House.

So the Biden administration is shifting its tone on Israel's response to the Hamas war as an increasing number of Americans voiced concerns about the escalating humanitarian crisis. The reaction to growing tensions in the region next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:36:02]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Senior U.S. officials now say that in the coming week they anticipate Israel will decrease the scale of its air campaign in Gaza and focus on a more tactical ground operation there. An increasing number of Arab Americans, meanwhile, are criticizing President Biden over his response to the Israel-Hamas war.

In a recent poll among Democrats who campaigned and voted for Biden in 2020, many now say they can't imagine voting for him again, even if he were to support their request for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza.

CNN's Priscilla Alvarez is traveling with the president. She's joining us live now from Rehoboth Beach in Delaware. Priscilla, now the Biden administration is reacting. How is the Biden administration reacting, I should say to this negative blowback is getting from some of these Arab Americans.

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, Wolf, U.S. officials are insisting on humanitarian pauses so that he can go into Gaza and to allow for the release of hostages held by Hamas. But Wolf, senior U.S. officials are keenly aware of the destruction in Gaza, the dire humanitarian crisis, and the outrage that that is fueling.

In fact, just this week, President Biden at a campaign fundraiser was confronted by a protester who called for a ceasefire. And in that moment, the President acknowledged the protester and said that he thinks there should be a pause and that was an extension of what U.S. officials are saying privately to their Israeli counterparts behind the scenes.

We know from sources that President Biden his top advisors are warning Israel, that they may not be able to reach their military goals as this global outcry intensifies. And it's part of the message that Secretary of State Antony Blinken is sending in during his visit to the region.

But of course, Wolf, the clock is ticking and according to sources, the advisor is closest to the President believe it as a matter of weeks, not months, until they can for the push back on the ceasefire. So they are holding the line for now that they are adamant that humanitarian pause is the way forward but clearly a very complicated landscape here for the White House to navigate.

BLITZER: All right, Priscilla thanks for the update. Priscilla Alvarez in Rehoboth Beach, Delaware with the president.

I want to bring in right now, Andrew Borene, he's the executive director of Global Security at Flashpoint, an international threat intelligence firm. He's also a former senior officer at the U.S. Office of the Director of National Intelligence.

Andrew, thanks so much for joining us. What do you think we can expect to see in the coming week with Israel shifting potentially, to a more tactical ground operation and slowing down its air campaign?

ANDREW BORENE, FORMER SENIOR OFFICER, U.S. OFFICE OF THE DIRECTOR FOR NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: Yes, that was great question, Wolf. And thanks for having me on. I think it's really important that we back up. And remember, every human being under the laws of armed conflict, who is not a combatant has certain human rights under international law.

And it doesn't matter who they are, if they are Israeli, or if they are Palestinian, or if they are one of the 30 plus nationals that were taken hostage or murdered October 7, or if they are someone who's stuck in Gaza.

So I think first and foremost, what IDF and the Israeli forces will need to do is really be conscious of separating their military campaign against Hamas, from the effects and ensuring that it separates from the Palestinian people and the civilians on the ground.

And I think that's probably at very top of mind, for their planners at the moment is how to target Hamas terrorists, and again, with not only international pressure, but from a military planning perspective. It's not going to be successful strategically if they don't also separate those fighters from the civilian population.

[12:40:00] BLITZER: What's the one thing you see as being the biggest threat right now to security and counterterrorism, not only in the region, but around the world? Are there lessons to be learned from what's going on in this Israel Hamas war?

BORENE: Absolutely. I mean, October 7, was the most sophisticated, highly planned attack that I've seen in in 20 plus years of being in the security space. And I think what lessons we're going to learn now are largely about fears. There's a regional kinetic fear of expansion from kind of this axis of Hamas, Iran back to militant and terrorist groups, including Hezbollah, Palestinian, Islamic Jihad, and others.

But then much more broadly through the internet and through real time dissemination of information, were concerned about either lone wolf terrorism, small group terrorism, threats to public safety, and threat actors from countries like Iran, or potentially even Russia affiliated groups, accelerating violence between protest groups in peaceful nations.

So, there's a lot of challenges for counterterrorism. I think, like the key lesson that I think will get taken from this for the future is to protect all innocent people, there's going to need to be really good public private information sharing, and then we're going to kind of probably need to read up a call to public action.

If you see something say something. In London Underground, they say see it, say it, sort it. And in the diaspora populations also are going to be responsible for helping inform public safety, law enforcement about threats.

BLITZER: What do you see as being the risks of the regional violence that we're seeing now in this Israel-Hamas, we're expanding and other friends opening up with other terror groups?

BORENE: It's certainly a thing that we are all watching and conscious of ourselves as an international firm. We have to -- we advise clients on it, and then we also have to do it internally. But I think right now, what I saw recently from the Hezbollah statements from Nasrallah was, they're going to kind of sit on the sidelines. They've all been supported long term by Iran. His statements to me indicated that he was not taking responsibility, that he was not tying Iran to planning funding for the October 7 attacks.

He certainly praised those attacks in very uncomfortable disgusting ways, for those of us that do believe in rule of law and defensive civilians. But I do think the remarks I heard in that hour long speech, as translated to me indicate that they may not be hungry for a fight. And that is actually probably not a bad thing for the world.

It gives potential room for a pause for a humanitarian corridor, for humanitarian aid to flow. And I guess we're all watching it, Wolf. Nobody's going to know the answer until it happens one way or the other.

BLITZER: Andrew Borene, thanks so much for joining us.

BORENE: Thank you.

BLITZER: And we'll be back in a moment with more news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:47:02]

WHITFIELD: On Monday, former President Donald Trump is expected to take the stand in the New York civil fraud case against him, his company and his two adult sons. Back in September a judge found them liable for fraud.

Judge Arthur Engoron ruled Trump overvalued assets of several Trump properties to obtain favorable loans. Both of Trump's sons tried to shift the blame this week in court arguing they had limited involvement. Here now with Kara Scannell.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Eric Chuck wraps his testimony on Friday after being on the stand for four hours over two days. In his testimony, he stood by the accuracy of these financial statements, something that the judge has already found to be fraudulent. Eric Trump testifying that after he was comforted by lawyers and accountants that these financial statements were quote perfect, he said he was more than happy to sign them and he wouldn't have signed anything that was inaccurate.

Now the judge also extended a gag order in this case two attorneys saying that they cannot make any references both in court and outside of court about any of the confidential communications the judge has with his staff. This is after Trump's lawyers have raised questions of potential bias with the judge's clerk passing notes to him during the trial and during testimony.

Next on the stand will be Donald Trump and Eric Trump after leaving court said that his father is more than ready.

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ERIC TRUMP, DONALD TRUMP'SON: I promise you're going to be here. I know he's here. It's hard enough to be here and he thinks that this is one of the most incredible injustice is that he's ever seen and it will be is.

SCANNELL: Trump's testimony is expected to last all day Monday next step will be Ivanka Trump. She is scheduled to testify on Wednesday, and after that the New York Attorney General's Office will rest their case. Kara Scannell, CNN, New York.

WHITFIELD: And still to come and update on a CNN journalist journey to leave Gaza with his pregnant wife and two young sons weeks after fleeing northern Gaza amid strikes.

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BLITZER: Ibrahim Dahman the CNN journalist in Gaza, who's been sharing exclusive dispatches of his family struggled to stay alive and fight to get out of Gaza. They are now and this is good news. They are now out of Gaza, casting safely through the Rafah crossing on Friday.

For 28 days, Abrahim witnessed so much tragedy, pain and fear. He documented his journey out of Northern Gaza with his wife, Rasha, who was four months pregnant, and their two young sons who are 11 and seven years old.

They started teaching the children how to feed themselves in the event that he and his wife died. And he showed us what they had to do to survive, including drinking water that was meant to fill toilets today. Today they are in Egypt. Listen to this.

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IBRAHIM DAHMAN, CNN JOURNALIST: I have been told that my family and I are on the list at the Rafah crossing. I spent my last night in Khan Younis. We didn't hear any aircraft or spy palnes, it was a quiet night.

The people who were living at the house with me were happy and sad at the same time. We were living together for more than 25 days. We ate together, went out together, shopped together and slept in the same room as each other. We shared memories of being happy, sad and scared.

[12:55:08]

My family and I wanted hours at the Rafah crossing, passing through checkpoints but now we are finally crossed.

Today we have passed the Egyptian crossing and are heading to Cairo. Are you happy Khalil? What do you want to say?

KHALIL DAHMAN, IBRAHIM DAHMAN'S SON: The trip was hard but it was nice too.

DAHMAN: And you Zaid?

ZAID DAHMAN, IBRAHIM DAHMAN'S SON: Thank God that we got out safety, and thank God.

IBRAHIM DAHMAN: Thank God.

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BLITZER: We are so glad that family got out of Gaza. Our special coverage of the Israel-Hamas conflict continues right after a quick break. Stay with us.

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