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U.N. Agency: Strikes Hit U.N.-Run School Sheltering Refugees in Northern Gaza; CNN Reports on IDF Operations from Inside Gaza; Hate Incidents Spike on College Campuses Amid Israel-Hamas War; Blinken Urges Greater Care in Avoiding Civilian Casualties; Donald Trump to Testify Monday in Civil Fraud Case; Construction to Replace Robb Elementary Breaks Ground. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired November 04, 2023 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:01:24]
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: Hello, again, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.
We're watching several new developments across the Middle East as Israel -- Israel rather pushes forward with its war against Hamas. We're seeing more airstrikes across Gaza today, with Israeli forces closing in on Gaza City.
One explosion hit a U.N.-run school that is serving as a shelter for thousands of Palestinian refugees. The Hamas-run ministry of health says the blast killed at least 15 people and injured dozens more.
Meanwhile, U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken met with Arab foreign ministers today in Jordan for a high-stakes summit, but while the Arab officials called for an immediate cease-fire in Gaza, Blinken says now is not the time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTONY BLINKEN, SECRETARY OF STATE: It's our view that a cease-fire now would simply leave Hamas in place, it will regroup and repeat what it did on October 7th. And you don't have to take my word for it. Just a few days ago, a senior Hamas official said that it was their intent to do October 7th again and again and again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: And significant development of the Rafah border crossing between Egypt and Gaza. A U.S. official says Hamas is now blocking foreign nationals from exiting Gaza until Israel guarantees that ambulances from Gaza can reach the crossing. A source tells CNN more than 700 people are waiting to cross into Egypt, including nearly 400 Americans.
CNN was part of the first group of foreign press granted access to Israeli forces inside Gaza. Journalists embedded with the IDF in Gaza operate under the observation of Israeli commanders in the field, and are not permitted to move unaccompanied within the strip. As a condition to enter Gaza under IDF escort, outlets have to submit
all materials and footage to the Israeli military for review prior to publication.
CNN has agreed to these terms in order to provide a limited window into Israel's operations in Gaza.
CNN's Jeremy Diamond was there.
Jeremy, what did you see?
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fred, we met up with Israeli soldiers on the Israeli side of the border first. We joined up with them, went into armored personnel carriers, and within a few minutes, we were inside Gaza, about a kilometer inside the Gaza Strip, where we met with soldiers from the 828th infantry brigade.
These soldiers have been trying to work to cut off the southern part of Gaza from the northern part of Gaza, as Israeli forces encircle Gaza City.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DIAMOND (voice-over): At this Israeli military post on the outskirts of Gaza City, the fighting is fierce.
IDF SOLDIER: It's okay. It's us.
IDF SOLDIER: In the center of the Gaza Strip, IDF soldiers are fighting against militants that are using all the houses that they can in order to harm and to get to the IDF soldiers.
DIAMOND: One week into its ground offensive, Israel's military says it has encircled Gaza City from posts like this.
We're right now in an Israeli military post inside the Gaza Strip, about one kilometer inside of Gaza. Gaza City is just this way, and as you can hear behind me, there was a lot of ongoing fighting between Israeli forces and Hamas militants. What they are trying to do right now is to flank the Hamas positions. That's what the battalion commander just told me.
And all of this intended to try and cut off Gaza City from the southern part of the strip as Israeli forces also move in from the north.
[15:05:09]
CNN was part of a small group of reporters given access to Israeli forces inside Gaza for the first time since the outbreak of the war. Entering Gaza using the same roads Hamas militants use to carry out their brutal attack on October 7th.
LT. COL. GILAD PASTEMAK, 828TH BRIGADE ISRAEL DEFENSE FORCES: And today we're going on the exact same roads to the same neighborhoods to their area, to their trucks, you know, to go there and be able to get them pay the price and to eliminate Hamas organization that held this attack on the state of Israel.
DIAMOND: The Israeli military is taking us into Gaza. We are in the armored personnel carrier right now. We're off into Gaza, to the southern point of Gaza City.
But still, Israeli forces face the danger of ambush from underground tunnels.
IDF SOLDIER: And over there, over there and inside the, the neighborhood, also --
DIAMOND: So in address this area, there are at least three tunnels.
IDF SOLDIER: I believe, I believe at least, yeah.
DIAMOND: Israel's as many of those tunnels lie below residential buildings, and for weeks, it has relentlessly bombed those targets, killing and injuring thousands of civilians in the process.
The forces here say they are now working to secure a humanitarian corridor to help civilians flee the heaviest fighting.
PASTEMAK: This is justice for the brigade, the battalion right here. The population will be able to go from the north to the south surely and freely, in order to get the IDF to what it has to do, north to the murderous Hamas.
DIAMOND: For these soldiers, achieving that goal may see them deployed deep into Gaza City, where the prospect of deadly urban combat awaits.
PASTEMAK: Well, the IDF will be here as long as it takes, weeks, months, years, until he makes sure that Israel is safe and secure for the long time period. If you need to get inside Gaza house by house, it's exactly what's going to happen.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DIAMOND: And during our time inside Gaza, we were there for about an hour, and there was very active fighting throughout our time there. About 100 meters away from this post, both to the north and to the south, fierce battles still ongoing between Israeli forces and Hamas militants.
Now, this unit, the 828th brigade, their commander told me that they have killed a few hundred Hamas fighters since the start of this war, but they have also lost fighters. 10 fighters since the start of this war, Fred. And what we could also here today, beyond the small arms fire, were also antitank missiles and, and more, and all of this as these Israeli forces, again, are trying to encircle Gaza City.
But the question now, will they go in? Will they do the bloody work of this kind of door to door urban fighting? That is a question for Israel's political leaders -- Fred.
WHITFIELD: Yeah. And that was a reflection of just one hour on one day, Jeremy Diamond. Thank you so much.
All right, it has been four weeks since that horrific Hamas attack on Israel left more than 1,400 people dead.
CNN's Nic Robertson spoke exclusively with one of the survivors, who, for the first time, returned to the site of the music festival that was attacked that day.
Nic, it's hard to imagine what she has been going through.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: It is, and, and, and I think one of the things that we discovered traveling along with her and traveling along with her cousin, who was one of the medics who was first on the scene to come down here and to come -- to try to come and help people on that weekend of October the 7th, that so much has still, is unchanged, and so much is still happening. So these scars are very fresh and real.
And to that point, we just had a salvo of rockets come out of Gaza right overhead here, perhaps four, perhaps eight rockets coming in. So, this is still, although we're four weeks on, all this pain and suffering and agony and anguish that people have suffered here, not to diminish, of course, what is happening in Gaza, but all of that is still very real for people here.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTSON (voice-over): Aliza Samuel is trying to be brave. For the first time, the 24-year-old is back to where her friends were brutally slaughtered terrain Hamas's murderous music festival rampage, October 7th.
ALIZA SAMUEL, FESTIVAL MASSACRE SURVIVOR: People's bracelets are here.
ROBERTSON: The bracelets from the festival? There's another one here.
Four weeks later, fear still scattered in the fields.
SAMUEL: People's bags, everybody just dropped everything and left.
[15:10:01]
ROBERTSON: She is struggling.
SAMUEL: I don't want to walk further.
DR. SHLOMO GENSLER, FIRST RESPONDER ON OCTOBER 7: I think Gaza Strip down that way, if I'm not mistaken.
ROBERTSON: Getting this far has been made easier by the help of her cousin, Dr. Shlomo Gensler, one of the first emergency medics send to the attacks.
GENSLER: First casualty was like actually think right by the drain point. ROBERTSON: He, too, for the first time since, revisiting the terrors
of that day.
GENSLER: We shot in the back of the head plus a bunch of places in the back of his body. He also was shot -- oh, interesting, you can actually see the bullets still. This is actually crazy. Wow. There was a ton of shell casings laying all around.
ROBERTSON: Just as we're about to move on.
Is that a siren?
An incoming rocket warning.
Aliza is visibly shaken.
GENSLER: You're okay. All right? You're safe.
Come. We'll get in the car, and will continue down. Okay?
So sorry. It's reliving it for you, yeah?
ROBERTSON: So sorry, are you okay?
SAMUEL: Yeah.
GENSLER: For her, it's extremely traumatizing because part of where this whole thing how it's started with her --
ROBERTSON: Was a rocket attack.
GENSLER: -- was being at this party and the rocket attacks started like that. And then hearing this, but not knowing what was going to come. So for her to go through this again is extremely, extremely scary. It's crazy, because it's still very real. Now that I'm seeing those bullets, they were never cleaned up, and that's -- still feeling that level of insecurity here.
ROBERTSON: We met Dr. Gensler soon after the attacks, still treating patients. A month later, he's helping his family heal.
GENSLER: You feel it like hitting home. The people that are close to you that you love, you see them struggling, and that's very painful.
SAMUEL: I think it's important for me to come back because I think to help me move forward. It's not easy, and it's not going to be easy. It needs to be done.
GENSLER: This is where it started to get even more real.
ROBERTSON: Dr. Gensler, too, needs some closer. We stopped again. More trauma relived.
GENSLER: So, we had treated a bunch of people that there were a few soldiers that came out, came out this way. And over here, there was one soldier -- ROBERTSON: If you look, there is still medical equipment laying here,
from that day.
GENSLER: Yeah. So, this is definitely from that day.
ROBERTSON: This is incredible. Wherever we are going, almost four weeks later, it's not changed. Everything is still laying around.
GENSLER: Yeah, it's surreal. I'll be honest, coming here -- I feel a strong emotion because I'm reliving what I've seen.
ROBERTSON: His colleagues say he is a hero, saved dozens of lives that night. He says he was just doing his job. And wishes all the innocence suffering on both sides of the border was over.
GENSLER: I cry about the kids in Gaza that are suffering and didn't make the choices that some of these operative -- these Hamas terrorists did. It bothers me. It tremendously bothers me. And it hurts to know that there are kids that are suffering as a result of it.
ROBERTSON: A few more miles, he gets us to the festival site. Aliza recognizes it immediately.
SAMUEL: These are the trees that we hidden.
ROBERTSON: We stop. She leads us into the bushes.
So this is where you hid?
SAMUEL: It was right in there.
ROBERTSON: You were hiding in here?
SAMUEL: Yeah.
ROBERTSON: Oh my goodness.
SAMUEL: We saw everything. I saw people get shot, lined up, friends of mine. They were lined up and they were here.
I saw one of my friends, she was begging for her life. She was 20 years old and she was begging for her life. She asked them to not kill her, did not kill, or to not killer. And they didn't care, they were laughing.
ROBERTSON: Hiding for almost three hours in absolute fear for their lives.
SAMUEL: My friend, I had to come all the way over here to hold her mouth shut. Like literally, to gag her, because I couldn't let her make noise, because you make noise, you are dead. You are killed or taken kidnapped.
ROBERTSON: Hour after hour, witnessing murder after murder after murder. SAMUEL: I saw the Hamas take a bunch of people, and went to their
commander and asked if to kill them or to take them. And when he said to kill these people and take these people. And they shot them right there. And once they were dead, they didn't stop. They just kept shooting them and you saw the body jump and jump and the bullets, after they were dead.
[15:15:05]
ROBERTSON: She is here to help with her recovery, but returning has brought everything flooding back.
SAMUEL: Sitting here right now, I hear -- I hear everything. I hear the screaming, I hear the bikes and I hear the gunshots. Hearing the gunfire, hearing everything, hearing people crying for their life, to save their life, to give them just a few more days, just to go to see their family again.
ROBERTSON: Eventually, she gets the courage to get a closer look.
SAMUEL: But look, look how many things there are here.
ROBERTSON: Most everything where it was dropped.
GENSLER: Where was your tent?
SAMUEL: Over there. More down there.
SAMUEL: We can set up camp here.
I remember this, this white thing.
ROBERTSON: The white one here? You remember that one?
SAMUEL: Yeah, we always made fun of it.
ROBERTSON: At least you know how to get back to your tent.
SAMUEL: That's exactly why we did it, because we needed a place to remember. I think it's right next to there.
ROBERTSON: It's the first time we see her smile, but it's fleeting.
SAMUEL: I'm going to come out of this stronger, and all the survivors are going to have a story to tell. And they should tell it. And no matter how painful it is, they should tell it because this is something that the world needs to know.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTSON (on camera): So as we've been listening to that report, Fred, I have to say that here, we've been witnessing sort of a pickup, an uptick in the war. I don't know if you're able to turn the video around, but we were recording just now, Ken's panning the camera over to take a look at the horizon. But we were literally seeing red rain that we believe was coming from, there's a little bit of it coming down again. Looked like red rain, but it, but it is gunfire, we think, coming from Apache helicopter, or perhaps a couple of Apache helicopters, into the north, northern part of Gaza. At the same time, there's some more of it coming down now.
The same time, there were rockets coming in from above, possibly aircraft. So it does appear to be an uptick in the fighting right where those, that, that gunfire is raining down. We can also hear the sound of -- the sound of heavy machine gun fire in that area. But it just is an indication of how volatile the fight here still is.
And even while that story was running, it was running for seven minutes, during that time, that was happening in Gaza, and more rockets came out. Again, we had to run for cover again, Fred.
It's -- it's, you know, it's an indication, Jeremy was in there, inside the battle, right there with the troops, getting a real first- hand view of it, and you stand back at the end of the day, but you can see it's still going on -- Fred.
WHITFIELD: All right. That battle picking up with this nightfall. Continue to be careful, Nic Robertson, to you and your crew, thank you so much.
And we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:22:08]
WHITFIELD: Cornell University canceled classes Friday, acknowledging extraordinary stress, after a student there was arrested and now faces federal charges for allegedly making violent antisemitic threats against Jewish students. Classes will resume on Monday.
Protests over the Israel-Hamas war are growing on college campuses, including at the University of Pennsylvania. This while donors are calling for the university's president to resign after she allowed a Palestinian literary festival to be held on campus in September, prior to the terror attacks by Hamas against Israel.
Well, CNN's Danny Freeman is on the University of Pennsylvania campus, where Penn and Cornell football teams are playing each other today.
And while it's football that brings them together today, both campuses are also trying to figure out how to deal with growing discord stemming from the Israel-Hamas conflict, Danny. So what is the mood today among the students, the fans, everyone there?
DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Fred, I think you put it really well. There's really a bit of a conflict on campus, right? Because there is a lot of cheering. The band's going nuts. Penn is doing really well against Cornell.
There is happiness because it is homecoming weekend here, but there is that layer of concern, fear, in some cases, because of this ongoing conflict happening overseas, and then the debate over it spilling over into college campuses. And then, like is that, the University of Pennsylvania, Cornell, they're certainly not immune. Cornell canceled classes on Friday because of that student making those antisemitic threats. He was ultimately arrested.
And then here, as you said, the University of Pennsylvania leaders here have been facing a backlash for not doing enough to fight back against antisemitism. We spoke to some students and alums. I wanted to take a listen to what they said about the overall temperature right now in these campuses.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FREEMAN: Do you feel other students feel safe?
AHNGELIQUE DAVIS, UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA GRADUATE STUDENT: I want to tell you they don't. Right now, I think people are unsafe, emotionally, at the pain of other people watching it, feeling, and seeing it is absolute trauma.
MARCI DOSOVITZ, UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA ALUM: Luckily, Penn has not seen some of the violence that occurred at Cornell or NYU, but that's just around the corner. That's how I feel.
DAVID HARRIS, UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA ALUM: Hopefully they continue in the direction of protecting all of our students, whether the Palestinians, Jews or anybody.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FREEMAN: So again, you can hear right there, Fred, still plenty of concern, even amid the homecoming weekend festivities. I should say the president of the University of Pennsylvania said this week that they have now an action plan to combat antisemitism, hoping to turn the temperature down a little bit on this campus -- Fred.
WHITFIELD: All right. All right, Danny Freeman, thank you so much.
All right, coming up, the leaders of Hezbollah calling, rather, the leader, singular, of Hezbollah, is calling for a cease-fire in Gaza, and warning that battles with Israel on the Lebanese border could escalate.
[15:25:06]
Details right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: With Israel's war against Hamas intensifying in Gaza today, U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken was in Jordan meeting with officials from several Arab nations in a high-stakes summit.
Today, Blinken doubled down on the U.S. opposition to a cease-fire in Gaza, which put the U.S. at odds with its Arab partners.
Let's go now to CNN's Gustavo Valdes in Tel Aviv. Gustavo, instead of agreeing to a cease-fire, IDF officials are vowing
to hunt down and kill top Hamas leaders, right?
GUSTAVO VALDES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That is correct. And not only that, they are asking Palestinians to be the ones who killed the leaders. They said that if they do that, the war might end sooner.
[15:30:00]
This is -- as you mentioned, Antony Blinken touring several Arab countries. He said that the objective of the U.S. and its partners is the same, but they just have different ideas of how to get to that goal.
Meanwhile, in Palestine, the Palestinian ministry of health said that the death toll there has almost reached 9,500 people, and they say that most of the victims are children, women, and the elderly.
WHITFIELD: And, Gustavo, the leader of Hezbollah is also calling for a cease-fire in Gaza, and warning that battles with Israel and the Lebanese border could escalate into a, a broader conflict.
VALDES: Yes, and that message that he gave yesterday, a recorded message, he first justified the attacks by Hamas, saying that he was 100 percent planned and executed. He warned that the escalations could lead to Hezbollah being more involved. However, he did not give any indication of what could trigger their increased activity. He also recognized that the presence of U.S. ships in the Mediterranean somehow are making Israel a little stronger.
WHITFIELD: All right. Gustavo Valdes, thank you so much, in Tel Aviv.
All right, let's talk more about these developments. Let's bring in CNN national security analyst Peter Bergen. He is also the vice president for New America and a professor at Arizona State University.
All right, good to see you, Peter.
So the chief of Hezbollah, Hassan Nasrallah, calling for a Gaza cease- fire, but he also warned that clashes that the Israel-Lebanon border have a realistic possibility of escalating into a broader Middle East conflict. How concerned are you about that?
PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, certainly, as you know, Fred, routine tit-for-tat fire on the northern border of Israel between Hezbollah and Israel forces. That's a, you know, it's not, in the grand scheme of things, anything close to a real war.
And I think, if you listen to Hezbollah's leader's speech yesterday, he said he was going to keep all those options open. I mean, that could mean a lot of different things. And Hezbollah, I think, has good reason not to get into a war with Israel. The last time there was a war in 2006, more than 1,100 Lebanese were killed, 158 Israelis.
The war turned into a bit of a stalemate, with neither side really winning. But, right now, as you know, Fred, Lebanon is suffering its worst economic crisis in its history. The economy is it completely in shambles. If there was another war, the 2006 were created billions of dollars of damage to Lebanon, and, you know, Hezbollah is not only just a military movement, it's also a political party with a substantial presence in the Lebanese parliament, and you have to take into account the views of ordinary Lebanese people, who probably are not eager to have another very damaging war on their territory.
WHITFIELD: Uh-huh.
So the Hezbollah leader also said America is fully responsible for the war in Gaza. What might that provoke?
BERGEN: Well, you know, I mean, you know, Hezbollah is an Iranian proxy, and he ran has proxies all around the region, and we've seen Iranian proxies in Yemen fire off missiles in Israel's direction. We've seen Iranian proxies in the region carry out rocket and drone attacks at U.S. military bases in Iraq and Syria.
But, you know, I think -- I don't, I don't think, right now, that there was going to be some major regional conflagration. I could be completely wrong. Wars have a way of, you know --you know, when you get into a war, you really don't know how it may end.
I mean, look, we got to the Iraq war in 2003, the United States, and we still have U.S. troops in Iraq today who are taking fire from Iranian proxies. No one would have predicted that two decades ago. So -- but right now, I think that, you know, Hezbollah, you know, despite the kind of rhetoric in his speech, I didn't hear anything that said, you know, any kind of concrete plan, and, and as I -- as I said, I think the, the Lebanese people are not necessarily wildly enthusiastic to have another war with Israel, nor, indeed, would Israel be wildly enthusiastic to have a two front war when it's already fighting a war in Gaza.
WHITFIELD: So the U.S. has two aircraft carrier groups in the region. Is that a deterrent at all?
BERGEN: I think it is. I mean, you know, it's a deterrent to Iran. It's a deterrent to Hezbollah. It's a signal of, you know, U.S. resolve. I think it does.
You know, he ran, by the way, also has substantial problems right now that are currency got devalued by half in the last year. They have 40 percent inflation. They've got a domestic opposition movement. You know, they also may not be inclined to get into a war with Israel, and also potentially have the United States get drawn in, too.
[15:35:05]
So, for the moment, you know, despite what people might say rhetorically, I think the likelihood of a -- of a shooting war between -- a real shooting war between Hezbollah and Israel, Israel and Iran is not on the cards yet.
WHITFIELD: So the idea seems to be closing in on Gaza city. Does that mean it is also closing in on Hamas?
BERGEN: Yeah, I mean, you know, the goal is to destroy Hamas. That's a pretty large goal. I mean, Hamas is not a small force. I think what Israel is trying to do is essentially end its military capabilities. To do that, it's going to be a long and bloody fight, because you can do this all from the air, and if you look at, you know, the U.S. backed war against ISIS and Mosul, which involved the Iraqi, hundred thousand Iraqi security services and U.S. advise and assist teams on the ground and U.S. airpower, it took nine months to get ISIS kind of completely out of Mosul, in a city of about 2 million people. And there were some pretty strong analogies between these two kind of conflicts, and you're seeing here these armored bulldozers, which are absolutely key to kind of what Israel is trying to do in Gaza.
But you have to clear every house, and that's a very, you know, soldier intensive effort, and it's also very costly, both in terms of soldiers lives, and also civilians lives, and you can also guarantee that, at the end of this, Gaza may well have 90 percent of its buildings either damaged or destroyed based on other kinds of urban warfare that we've seen in the past.
WHITFIELD: All right. Peter Bergen, we'll leave it there. Thank you so much.
BERGEN: Thank you, Fred.
WHITFIELD: All right, still to come, Donald Trump's sons taking to the stand in his New York civil fraud case. More on what they said while under oath, and what to expect when Trump himself takes the stand on Monday.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:41:03]
WHITFIELD: All right. Monday marks the pivotal moment in the $250 million civil fraud trial against former President Donald Trump. That's when Trump himself is set to take the witness stand, becoming the first former president to be publicly under oath to discuss his business practices. His testimony comes after his two sons, Don Jr. and Eric Trump, both testified this week.
With me now is former federal prosecutor Michael Zeldin. He's also the host of "That Said with Michael Zeldin" podcast.
Michael, great to see you.
So, why is the former president's testimony so important when he is already testified previously in depositions?
MICHAEL ZELDIN, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, so in the depositions, he mostly took the Fifth Amendment and avoided direct answers to direct questions. So here, he's on trial. His company's on trial for fraud, and he is the key to establishing that there wasn't fraud in the company. He is the one who was in charge of this organization, and he can directly refute the allegations of the Attorney General Letitia James.
If he chooses to do that, it'll be interesting day in court. I don't expect that he will do that, because I don't think he has a very viable defense in this case, but that's why he's so critical.
He is the main defendant. His children are ancillary to the main proposition, which is, did he, as the head of this organization, engage in a pattern of fraud against insurance companies, against tax services, and about, against the people of New York?
WHITFIELD: So the main issue here is whether the Trump organization overinflated its assets in fraudulent financial statements, but both Don Jr. and Eric testified this week that while they signed financial documents, they had no reason to question them, because the financial statements were prepared by the company's accountants. In other words, they put it on someone else.
The judge has already found that they are guilty of inflating. Now the issue is, by how much, or what the penalty would be, correct?
ZELDIN: Yeah, exactly. So there are a couple of things going on in this trial, couple of streams. One is, the judge, as you say, Fred, has found, in a summary judgment motion, that they engaged in a pattern of fraudulent activity, and so now the judge is determining, in respect of that, what amount of damages. In addition, though, there are other counts that haven't been resolved by summary judgment that include fraud, and the prosecutors are trying to establish that as well.
So there's damages, plus liability in other parts of the case, and the prosecutors are going to go after Donald Trump to say, what did you know about this, and what was your involvement in this.
He may take the Fifth Amendment. He did that in the deposition. He might decide that the judges already ruled, you know, that he has engaged in fraud, so what's the point of testifying if it's a lost cause, so I'll just take the fifth and preserve my options, you know, for appeal.
WHITFIELD: Okay, so the fraud extension, the knowingly and intentionally, then, inflated those, those assets. So even in Trump, I mean, she is not a co-defendant, but she is expected to testify next week after a higher court denied her appeal to block the order for her to testify.
What will be the questions to her?
ZELDIN: Well, she was an executive in the Trump Organization. She, famously, was the person who ran point on the establishment of the Trump hotel, at the old post office building here in Washington, D.C., which was really one of the landmark properties for the Trump Organization, especially here in Washington. It's where all the diplomats and everybody came and stayed during the Trump presidency.
She was intimately involved in that, so they're going to want to know about that whole process and evaluation that went into it. [15:45:00]
And so she is not really a secondary player here. She was a key player, perhaps as important as the two sons.
WHITFIELD: Okay. She, she stepped away from the business when she decided to take the job in the White House to work with her dad, but then she's being called with her experience as having been an executive, a lead in the organization, so that she was a public servant doesn't -- I guess, recuse her from the importance here.
ZELDIN: Exactly right, because during the time that this fraud was occurring, she worked for the Trump organization. And so they want to know about that aspect of her work, that bears on the question of valuation, fraud, and the amount of damages that attend to it.
WHITFIELD: All right. Michael Zeldin, good to see you. Thanks so much.
ZELDIN: Thanks, Fred.
WHITFIELD: All right. Coming up, more than a year after a mass shooting shadow the town of Uvalde, Texas, construction is now underway on a new school to replace Robb Elementary. More on this important milestone after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:50:29]
WHITFIELD: All right. More than a year after the tragedy at Robb Elementary School in Texas, a new chapter for Uvalde began this week. Family members of some of the 19 children and two teachers who were killed in the shooting helped break ground on a new elementary school. The project funded in part by a nonprofit organization will feature a tree at its center to honor the victims and is being called a place where students in Uvalde will feel welcome and safe.
Joining me now right now is Tim Miller, the executive director for Uvalde's moving forward foundation.
Tim, so great to see you. But, you know, I know this was a very tender, you know, week. What was this groundbreaking like?
TIM MILLER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, UVALDE CISO MOVING FORWARD FOUNDATION: Thank you very much for having me on today. The groundbreaking ceremony was last Saturday. We had about 200 people and about a fourth of those people were family members of the victims or of the survivors. The rest of the audience was made up of members of our community -- advisory committee. We had many of our donors that have donated money to help get this project going as well as just other members of the Uvalde community.
So the groundbreaking ceremony was bittersweet, was definitely a difficult time for those who had lost their children and loved ones and spouses. But it was also a milestone for us to continue moving forward and healing together and creating this school that will be in the Uvalde community for generations to come.
WHITFIELD: So among those family members that you say came, what did you see in them?
MILLER: I saw in them many of the things I've seen in them the past year because we have been working with them closely to share input about what the community advisory committee is recommending, get input from them about what they wanted to see and not see in the school. So they were -- they were present, Mr. Mata, the father of Tess Mata, was able to actually help us with the groundbreaking ceremony, with the ceremonial dig.
So it was good to see them in the audience. Many of them are very vocal, very present in the Uvalde community as well as the capitol this past legislative session.
So, we appreciate the resiliency of the families and the support they have for each other as well as the input they provide for us along the way.
WHITFIELD: So tell us about this new school. What are your hopes about what -- how students will feel when they go there, how parents will feel when they go to pick up their kids at this new school.
MILLER: Definitely. Safety and security was at the forefront, trauma- informed care was another element as well as designing a top-notch educational setting. So, the school is designed around an interior courtyard, and so there is one entrance for non-teachers, nonstudents, and then some other exits and entrances that can only be used by the staff and students.
So the campus is very secure. When students and their teachers want to go outside, they can go out into the interior courtyard as well as they can also exit the building and go out into some of the playgrounds and play equipment that will be outside. So, it's going to be an inviting place. The colors, the images that we've designed in the building are reflective of the Uvalde community.
And then as we mentioned in the beginning, you know, the centerpiece of the library of the school, of the core of the school will be that metal tree that represents the strength of the Uvalde community, the two teachers who lost their lives in terms of the two main limbs, and then 19 smaller limbs representing the children who died that tragic day.
WHITFIELD: And how far away is this new school from Robb Elementary?
MILLER: It's probably about five-minute drive. It's a neighborhood -- the school is being built adjacent to the present pre-K-K-1 campus, Dalton Elementary. Students will be able to use many of the resources at the new school from their Dalton Elementary.
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So, that was another reason for the site selection so we could have a neighborhood school that would serve the community not only during the day as an educational setting, but also after hours for the playfields and other things being built into it.
WHITFIELD: Yeah. Is there a way that you can kind of quickly describe how you are feeling after all of this?
MILLER: Yes, ma'am. I mean, I've been -- involved all along the way with the design meetings that we had with community members and the families. So it definitely was a good feeling to get to there milestone to break ground.
We are still raising funds so that we can fund the completion of the building, but we will be starting construction this month so that we can have the school ready for students and staff to use it in August of 2025.
WHITFIELD: All right. If anybody wants to make a contribution or help in any way, they know how to find you, Tim Miller, executive director for Uvalde's Moving Forward Foundation. Thank you so much.
MILLER: You're welcome. Thank you, again, for the opportunity.
WHITFIELD: And thank you, everybody, for joining us today. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.
"SMERCONISH" begins right after a quick break.
