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Israel-Hamas War; Interview with Mark Regev; Thousands Rally to Support Palestinians; FBI Director: Anti-Semitism Reaching Historic Levels in U.S; FBI Director: Anti-Semitism Reaching "Historic Levels" In U.S.; Interview With Republican Presidential Candidate Vivek Ramaswamy; Growing Number Of Democrats Call For Ceasefire In Gaza; Demonstrators March In DC In Pro-Palestinian Rally. Aired 5-6p ET
Aired November 04, 2023 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:00:39]
JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington. Good evening.
We are following a number of new developments in the Israel-Hamas war.
U.S. Secretary of State Tony Blinken has wrapped up his meeting with Arab leaders in Jordan. Blinken stressed support for Israel to implement humanitarian pauses, as he's calling them, in the fighting in Gaza, short of a cease-fire demanded by Arab countries and international aid agencies.
A U.S. official says Hamas is blocking foreign nationals from leaving Gaza for Egypt through the Rafah crossing. Hamas is demanding that Israel guarantee that ambulances from Gaza, that they can reach that crossing.
An Egyptian source says more than 700 foreign nationals were expected to cross through Rafah earlier today including 400 Americans.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Free, free Palestine.
CROWD: Free, free Palestine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
People around the world are marching and singing in rallies against the war today including this one here in Washington. You can see the Capitol in the background there. Protesters waved Palestinian flags and called for an end to the violence.
CNN was part of the first group of foreign press granted access to Israeli forces inside Gaza. Journalists embedded with the IDF in Gaza operate under the observation of Israeli commanders in the field, we should note. And may not move around unaccompanied within the Gaza Strip.
And to get this kind of access, news outlets must submit all materials and footage to the Israeli military before it can be published. CNN, we should note, has agreed to these terms in order to provide a limited window into Israel's operations in Gaza.
CNN's Jeremy Diamond was there. Jeremy, tell us what you're able to see.
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well Jim, one week into Israel's expanded ground operation. We were brought in with Israeli forces into Gaza. We went in about one kilometer into the Gaza Strip so that Israeli officials -- Israeli military officials could show us how they're encircling Gaza City and trying to cut off northern Gaza from southern Gaza.
We found ourselves at a military outpost with contact. Military fighting with Hamas fighters all around us to the north a couple hundred meters and to the south just 100 meters away. Showing us how these Israeli forces are trying to take control of that line dividing up Gaza between north and south.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DIAMOND: At this Israeli military post on the outskirts of Gaza City, the fighting is fierce.
LT. COL. GILAD PASTERNAK, 828TH BRIGADE, ISRAEL DEFENSE FORCES: The center of the Gaza Strip, the IDF soldiers are fighting against the militants that are using all the houses that they can in order to harm and to get to the IDF soldiers.
DIAMOND: One week into its ground offensive, Israel's military says it has encircled Gaza City from posts like this.
We're right now, at an Israeli military post inside the Gaza Strip about one kilometer inside of Gaza. Gaza City is just this way, and as you can hear behind me, there is a lot of ongoing fighting between Israeli forces and Hamas militants.
What they are trying to do right now is to flank the Hamas positions. That's what the battalion commander just told me. And all of this intended to try and cut off Gaza City from the southern part of the strip as Israeli forces also move in from the north.
CNN was part of a small group of reporters given access to Israeli forces inside Gaza for the first time since the outbreak of the war. Entering Gaza using the same roads Hamas militants use to carry out their brutal attack on October 7th.
PASTERNAK: And today we are going on the exact same road, the same neighborhoods, to their assembly (ph) area, to their trucks in order to go there and be able to get them to pay the price and to eliminate Hamas organization that held this attack on the state of Israel.
DIAMOND: The Israeli military is taking us into Gaza. We are inside an armored personnel carrier right now (INAUDIBLE) into Gaza. Here the southern point of Gaza City.
But still Israeli forces face the danger of ambush from underground tunnels.
[17:04:48]
LT. COL. RAN CNAAN, 828TH BRIGADE, ISRAEL DEFENSE FORCES: And over there, over there and inside the neighborhood also.
DIAMOND: So in just this area there are at least three tunnels?
CNAAN: I believe -- I believe at least, yes.
DIAMOND: Israel says many of those tunnels lie below residential buildings, and for weeks it has relentlessly bombed those targets, killing and injuring thousands of civilians in the process.
The forces here say they're now working to secure a humanitarian corridor to help civilians flee the heaviest fighting.
PASTERNAK: This is a huge objective for the brigade, the battalion here. The population will be able to go from the north to the south surely and (INAUDIBLE) in order to get the IDF to do what it needs to do in order to demolish Hamas.
DIAMOND: for these soldiers, achieving that goal may see them deploy deep into Gaza city where the prospects of deadly urban combat awaits.
PASTERNAK: The IDF will be here as long as it takes -- weeks, months, years -- until it makes sure that Israel is safe and secure for the long-time period even if we need to get inside Gaza, house by house, it's exactly what's going to happen.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DIAMOND: And Jim, Israeli commanders told me that they have positions like this one all along the six-kilometer stretch between Israel's border with Gaza and the Mediterranean Sea. But even they acknowledge that while they may have a firm military line established above ground, there is still that danger looming below ground with the dozens of miles of tunnels that Hamas maintains. And that, the commanders I spoke to today, is their biggest fear.
They have seen already as Israeli troops have been ambushed because of those tunnels. Already, Jim, 29 Israeli soldiers have died since Israel launched this ground offensive.
ACOSTA: All right. Of course, that number will go up in the coming days, no question about it, as this fighting intensifies. Jeremy Diamond, in Ashkelon for us. Jeremy, thank you very much.
Just minutes ago we learned that President Biden was briefed by his national security officials including the Secretary of State Tony Blinken. CNN's Jennifer Hansler is traveling with the secretary, joins us from Amman, Jordan. Jennifer, what can you tell us about Blinken's conversations, discussions with these other counterparts of his? He reiterated the U.S. opposition to a ceasefire. I'm sure that did not go over well. What can you tell us about that?
JENNIFER HANSLER, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT REPORTER: Well Jim, we saw Blinken standing alone among his foreign counterparts here in Amman today in reiterating he would not call for a ceasefire. He instead continued to advocate for these humanitarian pauses. He said that these are going to achieve similar aims here on the ground to try get this assistance into Gaza, excuse me.
And so he is saying that right now is not the time for a ceasefire. He said that it will allow Hamas to regroup and potentially reattack Israel. So this is sort of a bridge that he is trying to gap with calling for these pauses.
This is how he described it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: The United States believes that all of these efforts would be facilitated by humanitarian pauses. We believe pauses can be a critical mechanism for protecting civilians, for getting aid in, for getting foreign nationals out while still enabling Israel to achieve its objective to defeat Hamas.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANSLER: And of course, Jim, we saw Israeli officials including Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu absolutely refuse any kind of stopping in this fight, whether it's a ceasefire which would last for an undetermined amount of time or a pause which the U.S. says would be short and not enough time for Hamas to truly regroup.
You know, this is something Blinken pressured them in Tel Aviv yesterday and Benjamin Netanyahu just after meeting with Blinken said absolutely not until the hostages are released, Jim.
ACOSTA: All right. Jennifer Hansler, thank you very much.
With us now with more on all this is Mark Regev. He's formerly Israel's ambassador to Great Britain, and now a senior adviser to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Thank you very much, Mark, for being with us. We appreciate it.
As you know, Secretary of State Blinken is making the case for these humanitarian pauses. He did not, I guess, he did not get received well with that message in his meetings earlier today in Jordan. What is Israel's view on that? Are humanitarian pauses on the table for your government?
MARK REGEV, SENIOR ADVISER TO BENJAMIN NETANYAHU: The truth is we say if you want a humanitarian pause, let's first and foremost talk about getting hostages out. There are 240-plus Israeli hostages, some of them citizens of other countries, as well, who were kidnapped on that terrible day on October 7th, the day that Hamas invaded our country. And they raped and murdered and they burned people alive.
On that terrible day, they also abducted over 240 people, took them back to Gaza. They're in some dungeon or spread out in dungeons, plural.
[17:09:57]
REGEV: Despite requests the International Red Cross has not been allowed to visit them. We say humanitarian, fine, what about our people?
ACOSTA: And let me ask you about this. I'm sure you saw this report earlier today. U.N.-run school serving as a shelter in that Jabalya refugee camp in Northern Gaza was struck earlier today according to the United Nations agency there that works with those refugees.
Images obtained by CNN of the damage show very disturbing images in the school's courtyard. What's the IDF's explanation for this?
REGEV: So that incident is still under investigation. I can tell you unequivocally Israel doesn't target innocent civilians. And in fact, that area in the northern Gaza Strip we've been telling people for three weeks that they should leave that area because it's a combat zone.
Now we understand that not everyone can leave, and Hamas has prevented some people from leaving. But the overwhelming majority of people, over I think it's close now to 900,000 people, have voted with their feet and left because it is a combat zone and we've given people adequate warning that they should leave.
Of course, that doesn't mean those who stayed we still make a differentiation between Hamas who we're trying to hit and innocent civilians who we want to see out of the crossfire.
But that's our policy, to make a maximum effort not to hit innocent civilians.
ACOSTA: But are your soldiers, are your pilots being instructed to avoid hitting targets like schools?
REGEV: Of course. We have clear operational instructions not to go for humanitarian sites. Thought you have to know it's more problematic than that sounds because Hamas has deliberately used humanitarian sites for its war machine like in the largest hospital there4 in northern Gaza, the Shifa hospital, we know for a fact and it's been documented that Hamas has underneath the hospital its command and control.
And from that center underneath the hospital, they have a (INAUDIBLE) tunnels that literally goes for miles with their underground bunkers, their missile launching sites, their armories of their missiles, different fortifications.
There's a whole subterranean Hamas military infrastructure, terrorist infrastructure, under the hospital. And it's -- it's a problem. And of course, this is a war crime, according to the Geneva convention, you are not supposed to turn humanitarian sites like hospitals, like schools into a military machine.
But Hamas has no -- of course, we shouldn't be surprised. We saw how brutal they behaved when they invaded Israel four weeks ago today. We shouldn't be surprised that they have no problem doing the same to Hamas' civilians turning a hospital into a military target.
ACOSTA: And so, I'm trying to understand what that means, what you're saying there, Mark. Are you saying that if Hamas turns a civilian facility into a strategic location for Hamas militants that that means it's open game for targeting for your forces? Is that what that means?
REGEV: We will always make a maximum effort to differentiate between Hamas who we want to kill and between the civilian population who we don't want to see caught up in the crossfire. But it has to be understood under the international rules of armed conflict, the Geneva Convention, it is forbidden to put military structures, your forces, inside humanitarian structures like hospitals.
And Article 13 of the additional part (ph) of the Geneva Convention says clearly if the enemy has done so, and Hamas has, we have a legal right to hit that target. It no longer has immunity, according to the rules of war.
(CROSSTALK)
REGEV: Once again that doesn't mean that Israel ceases to differentiate. We still will make a maximum effort to avoid seeing innocent civilians caught up in the crossfire.
ACOSTA: And when you see images, though, like the ones that we're seeing -- and of course these are images that were obtained by CNN, analyzed by CNN, that we obtained earlier TODAY from the school that was hit.
If IDF pilots, people who are conducting these strikes are making a maximum effort, as you're saying, shouldn't they be avoiding targets like schools?
REGEV: Well, maybe we didn't hit the school. Maybe we're hitting something next to the school. I don't know -- I don't have the details.
But I want to say something, a word of warning. Gaza is not a democracy. Hamas controls the Gaza Strip now for 16 years, and it's established an autocratic-theocratic government.
And I think it's very telling that in all these three-four weeks of fighting you haven't seen a picture out of Gaza of a dead Hamas terrorist.
On the contrary, all the pictures that is being distributed are always of civilians. Now, you can presume as Hamas wants you to believe that all the targets, that all the people who have been hit are civilians, or you can presume that Hamas because of its authoritarian control of the Strip can control to a large extent the visual image.
[17:14:49]
REGEV: And obviously it's the latter. They control the visual image, and they don't want to see pictures of dead Hamas fighters. They only want you to see pictures of civilians caught up in the crossfire. And of course we don't know --
(CROSSTALK)
ACOSTA: Those images are going out to the world of these children who have died.
REGEV: Of course.
ACOSTA: Of innocent civilians dying in these strikes. Are you concerned about support for Israel eroding around the world? We're seeing these large pro-political rallies today in London, Washington, D.C., and many other places along with international calls for a ceasefire. Are you concerned about support eroding?
REGEV: Well first of all, I'm concerned about civilian casualties. I don't want to see any civilian casualties. We'll make a maximum effort to try to avoid that.
All I'm saying is the stories and the pictures coming out of Gaza are controlled, and that the media has to be aware of that. Once again, the images coming out tend to be images that Hamas wants you to see, and ones that they don't want you to see, they don't -- you know, they don't get on television.
Once again, anyone in Gaza who doesn't follow the Hamas party line will face violent retribution from the Hamas movement. There was even one case, I saw it on a rival channel, but a woman whose house was destroyed was crying and blaming Hamas. And we actually saw people run up to her and say, shh, they said "halas" which means "stop, stop, you can't say" that in front of foreign media.
ACOSTA: But Mark --
REGEV: They're very clear on how they want their message.
ACOSTA: I understand that. But Mark, even if they were allowing images of dead Hamas fighters to be shown, you are seeing images of children being pulled out of rubble, you're seeing innocent civilians who have been caught up in this. There's just -- there's no -- there's no debating that, correct? You're not doubting the authenticity of that?
REGEV: I don't, but I'd like to add another proviso if I may. And that is, we had that situation in the hospital a week and a bit ago where Hamas said it was Israeli munitions, and in the end, it was proven that that was actually rocket that went astray.
There are doubtless other cases where it's Hamas munitions that's have exploded and so like to say all the deaths are Israeli hands, I think that's also incorrect. They want you to believe that.
But I would ask you the following question -- if Hamas deliberately puts its military facilities, its terrorists machine inside civilian neighborhoods surely, primarily the responsibility rests with Hamas that only started this war and initiated this whole crisis.
We wouldn't be fighting a war today if Hamas hadn't invaded and brutalized and murdered our citizens on October 7th. We're acting to defend ourselves. But their war machine is integrated as it is -- you have civilian structures and under those structures you've got their network of subterranean tunnels --
(CROSSTALK)
ACOSTA: Right, but at some point --
REGEV: -- it makes it very difficult for us.
ACOSTA: -- do you reach a point -- I understand what you're saying. Do you reach a point, ambassador, where the effectiveness of air strikes, the effectiveness of these kinds of strikes become limited? And it does sort of place more of a premium on going house by house, tunnel by tunnel.
At some point you will have to be more heavily involved, one would think, to be able to sort these things out as you have been saying. Facilities that have been turned into dual purpose. Facilities that typically have a civilian focus that have been used strategically by Hamas.
The only way to really do that, it seems, on a large scale is to do it on the ground with troops going in there on the ground.
REGEV: And you're exactly right, Jim. And that's why we've also got ground forces there. Israeli boots on the ground to do that sort of surgical work that needs to be done.
And we're risking our own soldiers for that reason. And you can see -- I mean, CNN has been one of the media outlets that's accompanied Israeli soldiers into Gaza.
We have got ground forces there to do the job that can't be done by air for different reasons. You're exactly right.
ACOSTA: All right. Ambassador Mark Regev, we really appreciate your time this evening. Thanks very much.
REGEV: My pleasure. Thank you for having me.
ACOSTA: Thank you.
And we'll have much more on the Israel-Hamas war coming up and how it's reverberating around the world including right here in the nation's capital.
Large pro-Palestinian rally where demonstrators are calling for a ceasefire in Gaza. We'll hear from the demonstrators just ahead.
Plus, 2024 candidate Vivek Ramaswamy says he would make a deal with Vladimir Putin to end the war in Ukraine by freezing the current battle lines, allowing Russia to keep Ukrainian land it has taken. We'll press him on that in just a few moments.
Stay with us.
[17:19:19]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ACOSTA: I just want to point out in just the last several moments, we've been seeing some explosions there on the Israel-Gaza border. 11:23 p.m. local time there in Gaza.
And you can see some flames behind those plumes of smoke rising from where these explosions just took place a few moments ago. Some of these images coming in from Reuters.
We'll keep an eye on all of this, bring you any developments as they come in. But I just wanted to point out in the last several minutes we've seen some fairly large explosions.
There's another one right there. You can see things are certainly heating up there at the Israeli-Gaza border.
We're going to keep an eye on it, bring any developments to you as they come in. So stay tuned for that.
In the meantime, pro-Palestinian demonstrators took to the streets in major cities around the world today. In London and Berlin, thousands of people rallied to demand an immediate ceasefire in the war. And back in the U.S., this is right here in Washington, where demonstrators are holding what they're calling a "Free Palestine" rally. The organizers are demanding the end of U.S. aid to Israel.
And CNN's Gabe Cohen is live for us at the rally. Gabe, what's the latest? What are you seeing on your end of things?
GABE COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jim, what you're seeing behind me is that massive crowd marching through the streets of Washington, shutting down several roads here in the district.
[17:24:49]
COHEN: They're making their way from Freedom Plaza where that rally was held this afternoon to the White House where they're going to be demonstrating for the next hour or so.
You can see the crowd coming through, chanting. We have seen people of all ages, little kids here, elderly people here, families, lot of young people.
And as you mentioned, they have called for a ceasefire, yes. They have called for an end to the bombings and the ground operations in Gaza. But so much of this rally, today's rally in D.C. was really focused on putting political pressure on President Biden to call for a cease-fire and to stop the unequivocal support of Israel during this conflict.
Take a listen to a couple of the people at the rally I spoke with about their message and feelings about the president.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My message to President Biden is I voted for you, and I regret it.
COHEN: Will you vote for him in 2024? Absolutely not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How I'm going to vote for him? I'm not going to vote for him because he -- he's supporting Israel, asking for $13 billion to do more killing of the Palestinian people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COHEN: And as these demonstrators arrive at the White House, organizers told me they are planning to put on display several coffins that they have brought, Jim, to symbolize the people who have lost their lives in Gaza.
This is one of many rallies that we have seen in recent weeks here in Washington, pro-Palestinian rallies, and there are several more planned in the weeks ahead.
But Jim, the plan today was to have the largest "Free Palestine "rally in U.S. history. I can't say whether or not that's the case, but certainly a massive crowd here. The biggest one I have seen in the recent weeks here in Washington by far.
ACOSTA: All right, Gabe Cohen, thank you very much. Keep us posted on how things are going on your end. We appreciate it.
In the meantime, the FBI is warning of a surge in attacks against both Muslims and Jews across the U.S.
Let's bring in Liora Rez. She's the executive director of StopAntiSemitism.org which has been documenting the rise in anti- Semitic incidents.
Liora, thank you very much for being with us. We appreciate it.
I guess, what is your sense of things right now? It just seems like every day we're seeing these stories crop up around the country. How severe of a spike are we witnessing right now, would you say?
LIORA REZ, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, STOPANTISEMITISM.ORG: Stop anti- Semitism has witnessed a 1,500 percent increase in anti-Semitic incidents across the United States. Terrifying is putting it lightly.
I'm the granddaughters of Holocaust survivors, and what I'm seeing again is history start to repeat itself. Specifically on college campuses with young teens and adults. ACOSTA: And Liora, help me if I have this correct here, your
organization is also publishing names and pictures of pro -- what you're describing as pro-Hamas students. Is that correct? Why are you doing that?
REZ: Absolutely. So we think that society as a whole, fellow students, administrators, professor, future employers, they deserve to know who amongst us and in society again is supporting Hamas, is supporting the beheading of babies, is supporting the rape of women, is supporting shooting the elderly pointblank in the head.
And we're holding them accountable for their despicable actions and vulgar words.
ACOSTA: But if they're students, should you be doing that? As misguided as you may find their comments to be, and obviously anybody who tries to legitimize what terrorists are doing, that's just not -- that's repugnant.
But if these are students, you know, should you be outing them in this fashion?
REZ: That's a great question. And we should never infantilize terrorist support. These are 18-year-old-plus individuals, adults, that are supporting, again, the beheading of babies, murdering of the elderly, and the raping of women, and society as a whole should be made aware of who amongst them supports such savagery.
ACOSTA: And what is your thinking on how we can start to bridge some of this divide that we're seeing on college campuses? The rhetoric has just gotten so out of control. People are really just going at each other and not talking to one another. I mean, you know -- maybe I'm a little -- you know, a little dated in terms of my age. But you know, in college you're supposed to be having a civil discourse. How do we get to that kind of place?
REZ: Correct. So we're looking at the administrators, at the provost, at the presidents of these universities. Tulane University made a public stance where they will not allow these types of rallies to occur. We applaud them for that.
These rallies do nothing but lead to violence, as we saw at Cooper Union in New York City, as we saw at Berkeley, and all across the country, that these rallies often lead to violence against Jewish students.
[17:29:59]
REZ: So first and foremost, we look at the administrators to stop allowing these rallies to occur on college campuses. And secondly, we then encourage again, like you said, we have to start talking to each other. That, number one, the administrators must be at the wheel driving dialogue, because these types of incidents leave, again, nothing -- lead only to violence.
As we saw at Cornell University, where such pro-Hamas fan-hood led to a student there submitting on a public Cornell chat thread that he was going to kill and murder Jewish students like rats. This ultimately, thankfully, led to his arrest.
So again, we're looking to the administrators to facilitate this dialogue and stop the hateful rhetoric on their campus.
JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: All right. Liora Rez, thank you very much for your time. We appreciate it.
REZ: Thank you.
ACOSTA: And these are live pictures from the Israeli-Gaza border. It's calmed down considerably versus what we saw a few minutes ago. We were seeing smoke, fire, explosions. In the minutes ahead, we'll keep an eye on it and let you know if anything develops there.
But more news in just a moment. We'll be right back.
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[17:35:28]
ACOSTA: Today, GOP presidential candidates descended on the Orlando area to make their case to Florida Republicans. Six candidates have appeared at the Florida Freedom Summit, with Donald Trump taking the stage, or at least he's set to in the next hour.
The event comes just days before five of them are set to face off next week in Miami for their third debate.
One of those candidates who's expected to be on stage is Vivek Ramaswamy, who joins us now.
Vivek, thank you very much for being here. We appreciate it.
As you know, one candidate who's not going to be on the stage again is Donald Trump.
And I have to ask, to make the debates, all of you committed to supporting him if you're not the nominee and if he is the nominee. What's the point of pledging to support Trump if he doesn't debate?
Do you feel played at all?
VIVEK RAMASWAMY, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Look, I think that we need to have a debate about what our party actually stands for.
There's a deeper generational divide between the old neo-cons of the past and the way of the future.
So I will, for my part, be proud to be the only America-first candidate on that stage laying out exactly why we have an obligation to our own citizens in this homeland, to this nation, not to those citizens of other nations, but to this one.
There's the moral abrogation of the U.S. president. So for my part, I'm focused on delivering my message. I think we'll be successful at that.
I do respect Donald Trump and his contributions to this country. But I've got fresh legs, and I'm here to reach the next generation, lead our country forward.
And I do think the debate stage will get more useful as there are fewer people on it. The last one I thought was totally useless.
But with a thinned down field, I'm going to be unrestrained, and I think we're going to make our case.
ACOSTA: Let me ask you this. CNN has new polling out of the early primary state of South Carolina showing 60 percent of likely primary voters have ruled out considering you.
This comes on the heels of another poll out of Iowa showing that you're underwater with voters there. The percentage of Iowans view unfavorably has risen from 20 percent in August to now 37 percent.
Are people liking you less as they get to know you, and isn't that a problem?
RAMASWAMY: I think the problem is the super PACs. The super PACs ae a cancer on American life.
What we know is many people in those early states have received individual mailers from super PACs, dedicated specifically to me.
So I have to admit, at first, I was flattered when I saw it. Nobody knew who I was in March of this year. I've now been a solid between second and fourth in this race for much of it, all the way up through right now.
That being said, this is politics. It's a dirty sport. And I'm not going to be intimidated by anybody. To the contrary, we're going to stand. And now we're doubling down our investment into this campaign.
I'm confident I'm going to be the nominee. I'm confident we're going to do well in Iowa, New Hampshire, and the other early states. That's going to be the path for me to win.
Nobody's bringing outsiders into this primary like I am. Many of the people we're reaching are young people who have never participated in a GOP primary.
Those polling numbers significantly understate that support. It's a good position to be in. I think we're going to deliver a surprise in I what.
ACOSTA: But aren't you going in the wrong direction? At this point, you should be surging, not going --
(CROSSTALK)
RAMASWAMY: I'm not a --
(CROSSTALK)
ACOSTA: in a downward direction?
RAMASWAMY: I'm not a horse race analyst. There have been ups and downs throughout the campaign.
We're doing great. I was at 0.0 percent on a solid name, third and fourth nationally.
That debate stage will be one milestone. The Iowa caucus, I have full confidence that we're going to significantly exceed expectations, shatter norms and be successful in this race.
The only thing I will say is the super PACs, I've said it before, will say it again, are a cancer on American politics. I'm the only Republican candidate with the spine to say it.
And I'm the only Republican candidate actually reaching the next generation of Americans, who are bringing into this primary.
ACOSTA: Let me get to --
(CROSSTALK)
RAMASWAMY: So I'm fully confident we're going to be successful. We're on a trajectory to win this.
ACOSTA: Let me get to some issues. This week, Trump opened up a rally in Texas with the rendition of the national anthem sung by some of the January 6th rioters who broke into the capital. He went on to call them hostages.
Do you agree with Trump that January 6th prisoners are hostages?
RAMASWAMY: I think many peaceful protesters on January 6th should absolutely not be in prison. We have a dual standard of just in this country. One standard applies --
(CROSSTALK)
ACOSTA: But Trump is using the word "hostages."
(CROSSTALK)
ACOSTA: Do you think that they're hostages --
RAMASWAMY: -- for the prior two years.
ACOSTA: Isn't that irresponsible to call them hostages --
(CROSSTALK)
ACOSTA: -- with what's going on in Israel right now?
RAMASWAMY: I mean, Jim, let me just be really clear about what's irresponsible as it relates to coverage of Donald Trump. And I think that your network and others like you owe some
accountability here, from the Russia collusion hoax that never was, to the Hunter Biden laptop story was actually real before people before the election were told that it was false.
[17:40:10]
So I think the real accountability belongs to the media. Speak the truth --
(CROSSTALK)
ACOSTA: The question is whether --
(CROSSTALK)
ACOSTA: The question is whether you agree with him calling them hostages --
(CROSSTALK)
RAMASWAMY: -- were denied constitutional rights.
I think -- I agree with the spirit of it. The spirit of it is, those people, many of them have been denied their constitutional rights, and many of them who were peaceful --
(CROSSTALK)
ACOSTA: They're going through the justice process, being prosecuted.
RAMASWAMY: -- than somebody else.
Well, I don't think that that -- many of those prosecutions are just.
My view is, if you're using one standard of political prosecution for somebody because they have political views different from your own, that's not justice. That is injustice.
And why I've said that anybody who is a peaceful protester on January 6th, for those peaceful protesters, they will earn a pardon from me on day one. And I will stand by that, Jim.
ACOSTA: All right.
You made waves this week for the deal you said you would cut with Vladimir Putin to end Russia's war in Ukraine.
Let's listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAMASWAMY: The most important element is Russia exit its military alliance with China. We make a hard commitment that NATO not admit Ukraine to NATO.
(CROSSTALK)
RAMASWAMY: In the deal here, it would freeze the current lines of control.
UNIDENTIFIED COMMENTATOR: What?
RAMASWAMY: Freeze the current lines of --
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED COMMENTATOR: You would give Putin --
(CROSSTALK)
RAMASWAMY: I wouldn't give him anything. I would freeze the current lines of control.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: Why would you cut a deal with Vladimir Putin? Why would you trust Putin to keep his end of the deal?
RAMASWAMY: I don't trust Putin. But I trust Putin to follow his self- interest, just as he can trust us to follow ours.
The fact of the matter is our engagement in Ukraine has been a disaster. Everybody in Ukraine would still tell you it's stalled to a standstill. Tens if not hundreds of thousands of deaths on both sides.
Now the U.S. entering greater risk with Russia. The first time we've never had a nuclear nonproliferation agreement in place with Russia.
(CROSSTALK)
RAMASWAMY: And secretly, many U.S. officials are beginning to admit there has to be a deal --
(CROSSTALK)
ACOSTA: Doesn't that show some --
(CROSSTALK)
RAMASWAMY: We're going to have - to the contrary. The naivete is what we've spent in Iraq and Afghanistan. This is Iraq 2.0 unfolding again.
Jim, if the people who were advocating for this war a year and a half ago are already beginning to admit -- even those you'll have on this network, beginning to admit it was a failure, it has not met expectations.
Thousands and thousands of lives lost. Greater risk, hundreds of billions of dollars later. This is a pointless war. So cut the losses now --
(CROSSTALK) ACOSTA: I think the Ukrainians have surprised a lot of people --
(CROSSTALK)
ACOSTA: -- by taking it to the Russians. Why would you -- why would you halt that progress?
RAMASWAMY: There are parts of Ukraine that are occupied. The progress has halted. The fact of the matter -- read what the Ukrainian general said this week. He first admitted it's reached a standstill.
Let's be sensible, do a real deal that allows Ukraine to come out with its sovereignty intact but pull apart the Russia/China military alliance.
(CROSSTALK)
RAMASWAMY: That's what nobody is talking about. We are driving Russia further into China's hands.
We need to be focused on pulling them apart and make a commitment that NATO will not admit Ukraine to NATO. That is a sensible deal.
You mark my words, this is where this is going to go eventually. We might as well go there now before more lives and more dollars are wasted.
ACOSTA: That -- you know, that -- to a lot of people sounds like a win for Putin.
Let me ask you one more question on the military. You've supported Tommy Tuberville of Alabama's blockade of military promotions over the Pentagon's abortion policy.
We had a Marine Corps commandant hospitalized for a heart attack after saying he's been overworked.
Do you still support this blockade? Some of your fellow Republicans in the Senate --
(CROSSTALK)
ACOSTA: -- say it's time for it to end.
RAMASWAMY: I think, on a broader set of grounds, it's justified. Where we have people put in charge of our military in positions of authority that are fundamentally ill equipped to lead this nation forward.
So I think that when you have military generals, like Mark Milley, who recently left, who are talking about white rage and systemic racism, not inspiring our own military, that's what contributes to our recruitment crisis.
That's the bigger issue, not the promotions.
(CROSSTALK) ACOSTA: You still support the blockade, is my question. Do you still support Tuberville's blockade?
RAMASWAMY: I think -- I think it's reasonable on a number of grounds. We need to revive national pride, not just in our country but in our military.
There's a reason -- you want to know why people are overworked? We have a 25 percent recruitment deficit among young people in the U.S. military.
And you want to know why? Young people don't want to serve a country in a military that teaches them to hate that country.
So, yes, there's a problem --
(CROSSTALK)
ACOSTA: Doesn't that weaken the military to have this blockade? Doesn't it weaken the U.S. military to have this blockade or these nominees?
RAMASWAMY: I think --
ACOSTA: And isn't that another win for Putin?
RAMASWAMY: In the long run, in the long run our military needs to be stronger by solving the recruitment crisis that we have. And also restoring focus to our military.
One of the things, Jim, that nobody's focused on is how our own homeland is as vulnerable as it's ever been.
I think we'll inspire our troops, our sons and daughters serving in country, if they're protecting our own homeland instead of fighting a random war protecting somebody else's homeland and somebody else's border in a way that doesn't advance U.S. interests.
(CROSSTALK)
[17:45:04]
RAMASWAMY: So I will put our focus on protecting this homeland, something both parties have forgotten. It's going to take a new generation to do it.
ACOSTA: All right, Vivek Ramaswamy. We have other items to discuss. Maybe we'll get you next time on those things.
Thank you so much for your time. We appreciate it.
RAMASWAMY: Thank you, Jim.
ACOSTA: We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) ACOSTA: This week, a growing number of Democrats are calling for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza.
Joining me now to talk about this, Ron Brownstein, CNN senior political analyst, senior editor at "The Atlantic."
Ron, we heard from our Gabe Cohen a short time ago, he was talking to protesters in D.C. today. And a couple of those protesters said they were not going to -- they said they were Biden supporters, not going to vote for the president again because of what's happening in the Middle East.
What's your sense of this?
RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, this is an issue, Jim, that genuinely is dividing Democrats. No question about it.
There was a Quinnipiac poll out this week, only about half of Democrats supported aid to Israel compared to three-quarters of Democrats who supported aid to Ukraine.
[17:50:04]
Part of that is the bill coming due for B.B Netanyahu. Over the last few decades, I think he has identified with the Republican Party more overtly than any foreign leader has identified with either party in my lifetime, and maybe in the 20th century.
So there's residual suspicion among Democrats that their views will align with his.
The biggest risk for Biden electorally is the Muslim-American population. It's less than 1 percent of all Americans. But it is concentrated in Michigan where it could become a problem for him.
A broader problem if this, indeed, does spread into disillusionment among the wider circle of left-leaning young people who have never been that enthusiastic about Biden.
ACOSTA: But, Ron, would those voters necessarily vote for Donald Trump? Someone who wanted a Muslim ban in the past? Who says he wants another one in the future? Are they really going against the president for Trump?
BROWNSTEIN: That's really a conundrum. No. It makes sense for activists in the Muslim-American community to threaten electoral consequences because they're trying to leverage the Biden administration and they believe they are not listening to their concerns.
But ultimately, if the choice is Trump and Biden, you're looking at, in Donald Trump, a president who would, almost without question, would give Netanyahu even more leeway than Biden has done to use force in Gaza.
And then on the domestic front, has promised to restore a Muslim ban. Has promised to impose a religious test on future immigration.
Steven Miller, his top immigration adviser in his presidency, has been tweeting photos of pro-Palestinian protests and declaring on social media that ICE will be busy in 2025.
ACOSTA: Yes --
(CROSSTALK)
BROWNSTEIN: Trump's interior secretary just introduced legislation to expel Palestinians from the U.S. and bar their future entry.
So in the end, if, in fact, these threats do bear out, that is what the voters in the Democratic coalition, who say they want to punish Biden, will in effect be voting to make more likely.
ACOSTA: All right. Ron Brownstein, our time is tight this evening. Always appreciate your insights. We'll get you back against very soon.
Ron, thanks so much. We appreciate it.
BROWNSTEIN: Thanks for having me.
ACOSTA: All right.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:57:02]
ACOSTA: The top-10 "CNN Heroes" of 2023 have been announced. Meet Mama Shu.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAMA SHU, CNN HERO: After Jacoby got killed, I needed to just basically change grief into glory, pain into power.
Folks thought I was crazy. That lady crazy, talking about she bought that block and fixed it up. Because they didn't see. I saw crystal clear what it could look like.
It took about eight years or so to actually clean up the block. We started buying the lots next door, and now we have 45.
It was so many things inside my head that I wanted to actually build for the people. I felt that is what we deserved.
(SHOUTING)
MAMA SHU: Beauty is healing. You can change your environment. You really can.
Sometimes I just sit and I just smile. Then I say, you know what? I'm not done yet. (END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: And go to CNNheroes.com right now to vote for the CNN Hero of the Year.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
