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Israel-Hamas War; South Gaza's Temporary Way Out Opens; Deadly Explosion in the Central Gazan Camp of Al-Maghazi; IDF Operations Covered by CNN From Within Gaza; Hospitals Become Havens for Thousands of People in Northern Gaza; Worldwide Calls for Ceasefire in Gaza; Globally, Thousands Participate in Pro-Palestinian Demonstrations; Protesters Supporting Palestine March to the White House; Some Arab- Americans Reevaluating Their Political Decisions for 2024; Race for the White House; Trump Leads Stage During a Republican Campaign Rally; On Monday, Donald Trump Will Give a Statement in His Civil Fraud Lawsuit; Blinken in the Middle East; Interview with U.S.-Middle East Project President Daniel Levy; Leaders in the Arab World Demand an Immediate and Unconditional Ceasefire; Woman Describes Family's Ordeal During Hamas Attack; CNN Journalist Shares New Dispatch as He and His Family Leave Gaza. Aired 4-5a ET
Aired November 05, 2023 - 04:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[04:00:00]
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RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR-AT-LARGE AND ANCHOR, QUEST MEANS BUSINESS: A very good day to you. I'm Richard Quest.
9:00 in the morning in London, 11:00 a.m. in Gaza, and we are following two major developments that have happened overnight. The Israeli military says a safe route from Gaza City southwards was opened for civilians an hour ago. As Israel forces fight their way into the city, the IDF says the offer of safe passage to civilians is only good for four hours, that'll be until 2:00 in the afternoon local time.
One of the refugee camps south of the line, where Palestinians have been told to go, was hit by a deadly explosion a few hours ago. A Palestinian hospital official says, more than 30 people were killed and more than a hundred wounded. The Israeli military has not commented on whether it targeted the area.
CNN's Ivan Watson joins us from Hong Kong with more. Let's start, first of all, I think, with the blast and then we'll move to the safe corridors. What more do we know?
IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We're seeing some first images of -- in daylight today, Sunday, the recovery effort. And what you can see is a giant crater there in daylight with many people hard at work, trying to sift through the rubble there.
Now, eyewitnesses have described an attack that took place or some kind of detonation, massive explosion that took place on Saturday night in the Al-Maghazi refugee camp. Now, according to the United Nations, Richard, this is a community of about 33, 000 people before last month's conflict began in an area of about 0.6 square kilometers. Take a listen to what one of the survivors of this massive blast had to say.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I saw a red light. Then we were shaking on the sofa. I saw all my sisters screaming. Then I saw my father. When I found myself alive, I looked to see who was still alive. We turned on the torch, and my siblings were alive but I did not find my father. I finally found him next to me. I moved him. I moved his hands. I moved his face. He did not respond.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATSON: This woman went on to say that her father was killed in the attack. We had another survivor in the same hospital who said his two children were killed. The head of the nursing department at the Al Aqsa Martyrs Hospital tells CNN that he saw the bodies of at least 33 people from this explosion, which he characterized as an airstrike. Again, the Israeli military has not yet commented on whether or not it had anything to do with this strike.
The death toll in Gaza continues to grow at a staggering rate, Richard. According to the Palestinian health ministry based out of Ramallah in the West Bank, that's not the Hamas health ministry, the death toll as of Saturday afternoon before this strike stood at more than 9,400 people killed, more than 24,000 people in Gaza wounded, and more than 70 percent of the fatalities coming from vulnerable communities, that includes the elderly, children, and women.
QUEST: Now, this safe haven, if you will, this corridor that -- it's not the first time we've seen this. It opened up yesterday -- the other day when there was allegations that Hamas had targeted people on it. But now what do we know about this safe route
WATSON: The Israeli military announced that civilians should travel from the north of Gaza to the south today, between 10:00 a.m., which is about an hour ago, local time, until 2:00 p.m. And that they should take Salah al-Din Street, and they should get south of Wadi Gaza, which is this kind of wetlands that bisects the Gaza Strip.
There are some challenges here. Major challenges. First of all, as of last week, we had a hospital director telling CNN that ambulances were targeted by artillery on that very same road. Another challenge, the announcement was made by the Israeli military on Twitter, or X, many people in Gaza have no electricity or no access to the internet right now due to the destruction there. How do they get that message? And then there's the other matter, which is, the strike that took place in this refugee camp is south of Wadi Gaza.
[04:05:00]
As are other communities that the Israeli military has claimed responsibility for striking with huge numbers of civilian casualties there. So, the end result is, is that if you're a civilian in Gaza, which is of course closed off by fences on all sides, it doesn't seem that there is any safe place for a civilian to take shelter in, especially when we have numerous accounts of hospitals and schools and places of worship being hit during this bombing campaign.
QUEST: Briefly, Ivan, do we know how many civilians it's believed are still in there, that this evacuation order would likely apply to?
WATSON: I believe that we've heard accounts of 300,000 to 400,000civilians still in the north of Gaza. That is where the ground forces from Israel have gone in with their incursion, their ground operation as of a week ago. And they claim that they are trying to encircle Gaza City right now.
QUEST: Thank you, sir. Ivan Watson, we'll talk more in the next hour.
CNN is part of the first group of foreign press that have been granted access to Israeli forces inside Gaza. Now, journalists that are embedded with the IDF in Gaza, they operate under the observation of Israeli commanders in the field, they are not permitted to move unaccompanied. As a condition to enter Gaza under IDF escort, outlets have to submit all materials and footage to the Israeli military for review prior to publication. CNN has agreed to these terms in order to provide a limited window into Israel's operation in Gaza. CNN's Jeremy Dimond was one of those embedded.
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JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): At this Israeli military post on the outskirts of Gaza City, the fighting is fierce.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's OK. It's OK. It's us.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
LT. COL. GILAD PASTERNAK, 828TH BRIGADE ISRAEL DEFENSE FORCES: In the center of the Gaza Strip, the IDF soldiers are fighting against the militants that are using all the houses that they can in order to harm and to get to the IDF soldiers.
DIAMOND (voiceover): One week into its ground offensive, Israel's military says it has encircled Gaza City from posts like this.
DIAMOND: We're right now at an Israeli military post inside the Gaza Strip, about one kilometer inside of Gaza. Gaza City is just this way. And as you can hear behind me, there is a lot of ongoing fighting between Israeli forces and Hamas militants. What they are trying to do right now is to flank the Hamas positions. That's what the battalion commander just told me. And all of this intended to try and cut off Gaza City from the southern part of the Strip as Israeli forces also move in from the north.
DIAMOND (voiceover): CNN was part of a small group of reporters given access to Israeli forces inside Gaza for the first time since the outbreak of the war. Entering Gaza using the same roads Hamas militants used to carry out their brutal attack on October 7th. LT. COL. RAN CNAAN, 828TH BRIGADE ISRAEL DEFENSE FORCES: And today we're going on the exact same roads, to the same neighborhoods, to their assemblies area, to their trucks in order to go there and be able to get them and pay the price, and to eliminate Hamas organization that held this attack on the State of Israel.
DIAMOND: Israeli military is taking us into Gaza. We are an inside and armored personnel carrier right now, just off into Gaza, near the southern point of Gaza City.
DIAMOND (voiceover): But still, Israeli forces face the danger of ambush from underground tunnels.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And over there, and over there, and inside the neighborhood also.
DIAMOND: So, in just this area, there are at least three tunnels?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I believe at least, yes.
DIAMOND (voiceover): Israel says, many of those tunnels lie below residential buildings. And for weeks, it has relentlessly bombed those targets, killing and injuring thousands of civilians in the process. The forces here say, they are now working to secure a humanitarian corridor to help civilians flee the heaviest fighting.
PASTERNAK: This is a huge objective for the brigade, the battalion, right here. The population will be able to go from the north to the south, surely, you know, freely. And in order to get the IDF to do what it needs to do, in order to demolish Hamas.
DIAMOND (voiceover): For these soldiers, achieving that goal may see them deployed deep into Gaza City, where the prospect of deadly urban combat awaits.
PASTERNAK: Well, the IDF will be here as long as it takes, weeks, months, years. Until it makes sure that Israel is safe and secured for the long time period. If we need to get inside Gaza house by house, this is exactly what's going to happen.
DIAMOND (voiceover): Jeremy Diamond, CNN, with Israeli forces in Gaza.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: The IDF has repeatedly called on civilians to evacuate Gaza City and Northern Gaza and move south. Many people are on the move. They are seeking shelter anywhere they can find it. We've obtained exclusive footage of one such makeshift shelter.
[04:10:00]
The al-Quds Hospital in Northern Gaza, where thousands of displaced people are now camped out. CNN's Salma Abdelaziz reports on their plight. And I must warn you of course, that these images in this report are graphic. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): Where do you go when the bombs won't stop? Where do you shelter your family when the shelters are full? For many Gazans, the answer is a hospital. The head doctor shows us around.
All that separates these families and the ICU is this door, he explains. These are not proper sterile conditions. Some 12,000 displaced people are camped out in al-Quds Hospital in Northern Gaza, and every single person you see here has been told by Israel's army to leave and move south. An evacuation order the U.N. previously called inhumane.
This is not a place for children to play. This is a disaster, the doctor says. Look, these are sick people. How can a man on a walker be evacuated?
Hospitals are protected under international law. But Israel claims Hamas uses medical facilities as command centers. Aid groups and Palestinian officials deny these allegations. Either way, this is still not a safe place. Step outside the doors and this is what you face, non-stop Israeli artillery and airstrikes. Everyone here fears the explosions will only get closer, but there's nowhere else to run. Across the street, desperate people steal basic supplies. The war and a suffocating siege is causing civil order to break down, the U.N. says.
Families cannot be expected to flee into this chaos, this father says. This is a war against our children. See how scared he is from the bombs? Now we are alive, but tomorrow we could be dead. Please save us, he pleads.
Less than a quarter mile away from the hospital, this is the aftermath of one of those strikes. Residents pull people out of the rubble of their homes. They can depend only on each other. Comms are down. No one can call an ambulance.
Just try and carry him out on your shoulder, someone shouts.
Are my mom and dad alive, the wounded man asks?
The sound of war never ceases. You could die trying to help the living. This is one neighborhood during one hour in Gaza, a tiny glimpse into the horror. The humanity and dignity of more than two million people that live here. A casualty of a war so many did not choose.
Salma Abdelaziz, CNN, London.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: In a moment, we'll show you the rallies around the world, pro- Palestinian that are drawing thousands of people. We'll let you hear the protesters on the ground, coming up next. This is CNN.
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[04:15:00]
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QUEST: The scene in Jakarta a few hours ago, demonstrations and protests, one of many cities worldwide, where thousands of people are showing their support for the Palestinians. And participants said Indonesia has an extraordinary history with the region so there's strong support for Palestinians they free from Israeli occupation.
In the United Kingdom, the prime minister is coming under pressure from a massive rally in central London on Saturday.
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QUEST: Tens of thousands of people gathered to demand an end to the violence in the war between Israel and Hamas. It's the third weekend of demonstrations.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's a bloodshed. And the Israelis are targeting hospitals, schools. And you can't -- we can't stand by and just watch this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We can only hope. Like we can -- we just have to keep going until they do. There's power in people. There's so many people here and we just have to keep going until they do listen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Now, the police are reporting 29 arrests for inciting racial hatred under the racially motivated crimes, violence and assaulting a police officer. It wasn't only London, in addition to the thousands you see here gathered in Berlin. Demonstrations took place in capital cities such as Paris, in Santiago in Chile, and in Caracas in Venezuela.
In Washington, there were protesters who marched to the White House carrying Palestinian flags and signs that read, stop the massacre. Let Gaza live. CNN's Gabe Cohen spoke to some of those who were there and are calling for the President, Joe Biden, to push for a ceasefire.
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GABE COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, thousands of protesters marched through Washington and ended up here at the White House after that huge rally just a few blocks away at Freedom Plaza. Hours of speakers who called for an end to the bombings and the ground operations in Gaza. But also demanding that the White House and President Joe Biden call for a ceasefire and end its unequivocal support for Israel, saying that it could be a serious political issue for the President in 2024 if he does not call for that ceasefire. Here's what some of those protesters told me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My message to President Biden is I voted for you, and I regret it.
COHEN: Will you vote for him in 2024?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How I'm going to vote for him? I'm not going to vote for him because he -- he's supporting Israel. He's asking for $14 billion to do more killing of the Palestinian people.
COHEN: And the organizers told me they had hoped this would be the largest free Palestine rally in U.S. history. And while I can't confirm that, I can tell you it is by far the largest we have seen here in Washington since the war began last month.
Gabe Cohen, CNN, Washington.
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[04:20:00]
QUEST: It may be a year away, but the U.S. presidential election is on the minds of many Arab-American voters, as you heard in Gabe's report, especially as the tensions increase. The voting bloc was once fairly reliable for Democrats and President Biden, and now they're looking for alternatives after the events of October the 7th. CNN's Dianne Gallagher explains why.
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EMAN HAMMOUD, MICHIGAN IMMIGRATION ATTORNEY: We can't ignore history.
DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): It's not a statement Eman Hammoud ever thought she'd make.
E. HAMMOUD: I voted for Biden.
GALLAGHER: And are you going to vote for him again in 2024?
E. HAMMOUD: I mean, if you would have asked me a month ago, I would have said absolutely 100 percent, no doubt about it. But honestly weeks have changed everything and I don't know anymore.
GALLAGHER (voiceover): The Michigan immigration attorney is one of a growing number of Muslim and Arab-Americans who say they're reconsidering their support for President Joe Biden due to his response to the humanitarian crisis and rising death toll in Gaza.
ABBAS ALAWIEH, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: The Democratic Party risks losing a generation of young voters and multiple generations of Arab- American and Muslim voters. GALLAGHER (voiceover): Perhaps nowhere is this sentiment more pronounced than here in Dearborn, which has been called the Arab Capital of North America. We sat down with Democrats who helped elect Biden.
LEXI ZEIDAN, PALESTINIAN RIGHTS ACTIVIST: I did vote for Joe Biden in 2020.
GALLAGHER: Do you plan to vote for him in 2024?
ZEIDAN: I do not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I will gladly turn in an empty ballot.
SAM BAYDOUN, WAYNE, MICHIGAN COUNTY COMMISSIONER: If the election was to be held today, and President Biden is on the ballot and we have to go out and vote today. I can't promise you that he will get five votes from Arab-Americans in the City of Dearborn.
GALLAGHER (voiceover): Adam Abusalah, a Palestinian American, worked on the 2020 campaign as a Biden fellow, doing outreach to the Arab community.
ADAM ABUSALAH, FORMER BIDEN FELLOW: The man that I went out and knocked on doors for, I feel guilt and I absolutely do regret what I did on the Biden campaign. When we thought that he would be somebody that could lead with humanity and compassion, we were wrong.
GALLAGHER (voiceover): Some are prepared to boycott Biden, even if it means potentially handing the election to the current Republican frontrunner, Former President Donald Trump.
MAYOR ABDULLAH HAMMOUD, DEARBORN, MICHIGAN: We're no longer going to consider the lesser of two evils.
GALLAGHER (voiceover): The White House has both publicly and privately pointed to recent reach outs with the Arab Palestinian and Muslim communities, as well as the call for a humanitarian pause.
JOHN KIRBY, NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL COORDINATOR FOR STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS: We get aid out and to continue to work to get people out safely.
GALLAGHER (voiceover): And announcing an effort to combat Islamophobia.
KIRBY: That kind of hate has no place.
GALLAGHER (voiceover): Efforts dismissed by the people we spoke with as damage control. Adding the only way to maybe save their votes is by calling for an immediate ceasefire.
BAYDOUN: Enough is enough. We need to ceasefire.
GALLAGHER (voiceover): Michigan is second only to California in residents who identify as Middle Eastern or North African, according to the U.S. Census. In 2020, Biden won the state by nearly 155,000 votes. Emgage, a national organization dedicated to getting out the Muslim vote says 145,000 Muslim Michiganders voted in 2020. Dearborn Mayor Abdullah Hamoud says, Democrats can no longer take his community's vote for granted.
A. HAMMOUD: We're not here to prostitute ourselves to the lowest bidder in order for us to be recognized and for our humanity to actually be seen.
GALLAGHER: On the Biden campaign sent CNN a statement saying, in part, President Biden knows the importance of earning the trust of every community, of upholding the sacred dignity and rights of all Americans. President Biden continues to work closely and proudly with leaders in the Muslim and Palestinian communities in America to listen to them, stand up for them, and fight back against hate.
But the people I spoke to in this community to say that if Democrats think they'll forget by next November that they are wrong, this is not political for them. It is personal. These are their friends and family members they are talking about, not just something they're watching on television. Their Congresswoman, Rashida Tlaib, posting on Friday night a video where she echoes their sentiments, writing at the end, Biden, support a ceasefire now or don't count on us in 2024.
Diane Gallagher, CNN, Dearborn, Michigan.
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QUEST: Now, you heard about Donald Trump in that report, and the former president was back on the campaign trail on Saturday. He dominated the stage at a Republican gathering in Florida. Mr. Trump celebrated several new endorsements from local lawmakers in the state, including some of those who had flipped their support from his rival, the Republican Governor Ron DeSantis.
On the stage, Former President Trump bashed DeSantis and Chris Christie. He also accused President Biden of wanting the United States to fail. And pledged he would reinstate his travel ban on immigrants visiting the U.S.
With his legal woes still writ large, the former president is set to take the stand on Monday in his civil fraud trial in New York. The case involves the Trump Organization. It follows the evidence given by his two sons last week. CNN's Brian Todd takes a look at the Trump children's roles in the Trump Organization.
[04:25:00]
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ERIC TRUMP, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT, TRUMP ORGANIZATION: You guys, it was a great day.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): The Trump family business and its legacy now facing what could be an existential test. Eric Trump, Donald Jr. and Ivanka Trump have spent most of their entire adult lives working for their father's company.
Ivanka no longer works for the company. Eric Trump oversaw the family's golf businesses before broadening his role in recent years to become the practical leader of the Trump Organization. Both brothers saw their portfolios in the Trump Organization grow when their father was elected president and handed over the business to them.
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND U.S REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Don and Eric are going to be running the company.
MICHAEL D'ANTONIO, AUTHOR, "THE TRUTH ABOUT TRUMP": He trusts them more than he trusts anyone else, and he respects them. And as Donald said to me, he doesn't respect very many people, but he sure as heck respects his children.
TODD (voiceover): Biographer Michael D'Antonio told us all three of Trump's eldest children have been effective managers of the Trump brand, but haven't really been tested outside the family business. And he says, they honed their marketing skills even before their father's wildly popular reality show, "The Apprentice."
IVANKA TRUMP, DONALD TRUMP'S DAUGHTER: James, do you think it shows fundamental lack of judgment?
D'ANTONIO: I think that all three Trump kids saw what their dad was doing even before "The Apprentice". His ability to manipulate the media is really unrivaled.
TODD (voiceover): This week, Donald Trump's two eldest sons struck defiant tones on the courthouse steps after testifying in a civil fraud case brought against the Trump organization by New York Attorney General Letitia James.
DONALD TRUMP JR., EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT, TRUMP ORGANIZATION: Unfortunately, the Attorney General has brought forth a case that is purely a political persecution.
E. TRUMP: We haven't done a damn thing wrong, and they dragged Don and I into it as collateral damage.
TODD (voiceover): Trump's sons and their father are accused of inflating Donald Trump Sr.'s personal wealth and the values of his properties to get favorable loans and insurance policies. They all deny wrongdoing. The brothers saying, they were not closely involved in the financial statements.
TRUMP JR.: Before even having a day in court, I'm apparently guilty of fraud for relying on my accountants to do -- wait for it, accounting.
TODD (voiceover): What's at stake for the Trump family business if they lose this case?
NORM EISEN, SENIOR FELLOW, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: They're facing a quasi-corporate death penalty, the Trumps and the Trump businesses, if they lose this case. That's because the judge has already said, I'm going to pull your certificates to do business in New York.
TODD: Analyst Norm Eisen says, that's not all the Trumps stand to lose if the civil case doesn't go their way. The business could face fines in the hundreds of millions of dollars. And, Eisen says, the judge could rule that the Trumps themselves aren't allowed to take out loans or engage in certain real estate transactions, possibly for many years.
Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.
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QUEST: The U.S. Secretary of State is in the Middle East, and in doing so, finding little agreement among Arab states for the United States position on humanitarian pause. We'll discuss after the break.
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[04:30:00]
QUEST: Our coverage continues. I'm Richard Quest.
We're getting reports of heavy explosions near the al-Quds Hospital in Gaza. Palestinian Red Crescent said the area was struck with violent artillery explosions and airstrikes, and there are some deaths. CNN has reached out to the Israeli Defense Forces for comment and information.
Dozens of people have been reported killed by an explosion at a crowded refugee camp in central Gaza. A Palestinian hospital official says at least 33 people have died, including women and children. There are more people wounded than can be treated. Israel's military has not said if it had targeted the area. That deadly blast came only hours before the Israeli military opened what it says is a safe corridor for civilians to leave Gaza City and move to the south as the Israeli ground offensive advances.
The U.S. Secretary of State has been meeting Arab foreign ministers, and those meetings didn't go particularly well. As Becky Anderson now reports from Doha in Qatar, America's opposition to a Gaza ceasefire is not what those ministers wanted to hear.
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BECKY ANDERSON, CNN ANCHOR, CONNECT THE WORLD (voiceover): When U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken met with key Arab allies in Amman on Saturday, the message from Saudi Arabia, Jordan, The UAE, Qatar, and Egypt, clear and consistent.
AYMAN SAFADI, JORDANIAN MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND EXPATRIATES (through translator): In the Arab countries, we demand an immediate ceasefire.
ANDERSON (voiceover): The response from America's top diplomat, also consistent. ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: It's our view that a ceasefire now would simply leave Hamas in place, able to regroup and repeat what it did on October 7th.
ANDERSON (voiceover): Sharing a stage with Blinken, the Jordanian and Egyptian foreign ministers said, Israel has gone beyond a justified response.
SAMEH SHOUKRY, EGYPTIAN FOREIGN MINISTER (through translator): Israel targeting innocent civilians and facilities, medical facilities, paramedics. In addition to trying to force immigration for Palestinians to leave their lands. This cannot be legitimate self defense at all.
ANDERSON: While he was in Oman, Antony Blinken made a point of stressing that the U.S. and its Arab partners share the, "Same fundamental interest and objective to end this war." But if he arrived in Oman hoping to share plans and build consensus for a post war future for Gaza, he likely left disappointed.
SAFADI: What happens next? How can we even entertain what will happen in Gaza when we do not know what kind of Gaza will be left after this war stops?
ANDERSON (voiceover): The message from Arab leaders, no talk about what happens the day after this conflict ends until all parties agree on what happens today.
Becky Anderson, CNN, Doha.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Now, let's discuss Blinken shuttle diplomacy with Daniel Levy, the president of the U.S.-Middle East Project. Good to see you, Daniel. Thank you.
The -- what can best -- what can come out of this in a sense when you have the U.S. that is not prepared to go along with the Arab countries call for a ceasefire.
[04:35:00]
Preferring to call it a pause or a humanitarian pause, where even that seems unlikely. So, what purpose do you think it serves?
DANIEL LEVY, PRESIDENT, U.S.-MIDDLE EAST PROJECT: It's an important question, Richard. I think it's eminently reasonable to say that after the attack on Israel on October 7th, Israel had to take action. Now, I think many people who Secretary Blinken has met with in the region would say, listen, first of all, Mr. Secretary, this is the neglect of years of allowing the Palestinians to live without their rights and freedoms, and we need to address that. But OK, we understand that happens after.
Number two, Mr. Secretary, you don't resolve these issues militarily. Hamas is an armed movement, but it's also a political movement that won elections. It's also an idea. Oppressed people take up arms. Now, they can't violate international law. So, Mr. Secretary, remember history across the world. This isn't just about Muslim movements.
But third, Mr. Secretary, in refusing to call for a ceasefire, you know what? After one day, after three days, after a week, you could say that the Israelis are going to get this right. They're not going to cause civilian casualties. But now the proof is in, with every day, the toll on civilians gets more horrific. You can't hide behind the excuses anymore. There are seven times more Palestinian children killed in this assault. The Ukrainian children killed in 20 months in the Russian military campaign.
So, I think what they're trying to do is put the strength, the arguments on the American side to move beyond this very low bar pause, which they're not even achieving and to up the ante --
QUEST: OK, Daniel. All right.
LEVY: -- on whether it's in private diplomacy to get a ceasefire.
QUEST: OK. So, assuming that to be the -- their position. The failure of the U.S. to put greater pressure, if you will, on Netanyahu and the Israelis, even assuming if they did, the Israelis would give in to such pressure because that's also the core question here. There's no point in the U.S. putting pressure if they know that Netanyahu has absolutely no intention of following that line. That merely weakens the U.S. position.
LEVY: Well, that's important. So, I think what this means is, can you get the correct mix between the public and private messaging? If there's too much of a gap, the Israelis know they can play in that position. So, I don't think the Americans have sufficiently tested how far they can push Israel. Of course, America has tremendous leverage. Does it want to use it? There are divisions on the Israeli side. Yes, the desire for revenge is overwhelming, but Netanyahu is incredibly unpopular.
And then there's this other factor, Richard, which could be the path out of this, which is the prisoners being held in Gaza, including American citizens. And so, when the secretary and the American officials talk to Qatar, also, perhaps when they're going to be in Ankara talking to the leadership of Turkiya, can you get the beginnings of a prisoner release in exchange for a partial ceasefire? That could then build momentum towards a full ceasefire and towards a demand inside Israel.
QUEST: OK.
LEVY: And we've seen demonstrations inside Israel to prioritize prisoner release over military action.
QUEST: Now, let's talk about the role that Turkey or Turkiya could play. Even though President Erdogan's rhetoric in the last 24, 48 hours suggests that there is a -- I mean, a very limited, this comes back to your point, doesn't it? The public comments and the private comments. Does Turkey stand to act as an interlocutor if not a negotiator or a mediator between the two sides, or does that role primarily rest with Qatar?
LEVY: Well, I think the Qataris have played the primary mediating role, not necessarily between the two sides, Richard. And I think what we mean here is an ability to reach into the Hamas movement and to move forward that conversation, while America and directly with Israel, yes, but also with America trying to see what you can get from the Israeli side.
I think the expressions of the president of Turkiya is also reflective of where public opinion is at. We've seen that across the region. We've seen that in Indonesia. We've seen that elsewhere.
[04:40:00]
So, I think yes, we can play that role. But also, America is -- I think, Blinken is trying to remind people that there's the rest of the world. So, Russia's on the agenda in Turkiya. He then goes to Seoul, Tokyo, Delhi, China's back on the agenda there because America is bleeding focus and credibility. The longer this goes on, another reason they should push for a ceasefire.
QUEST: At what point -- and this isn't really a question about whether or not war crimes are being committed or questions, nice questions or fine questions, I will say, of that. But at what point does the sheer loss of civilian life make the argument that the Israeli response is not proportionate and pressure eventually generates that they have to slow down or stop?
LEVY: Honestly, I think that's a question many, many people in the world, also in America, are asking themselves. And, you know, it's taken an Egyptian comedian, Bassem Youssef, in an interview that he once did, to perhaps capture it best. And he's saying, just tell us in advance. Is it 10,000? Is it 100,000 Palestinians, and then that's enough?
But perhaps the sad answer to that question, because we've well passed the phase where one can say, there's some unfortunate civilian collateral. We're, well, well past that. But maybe the sad answer to that question is only when a U.S. administration decides that this is too costly for its domestic politics, will it act in that way? And there couldn't be a bigger indictment of the administration than that, I'm afraid.
QUEST: You -- sorry, we're all out of time, but I do want to pick up on that point. So, we'll keep going if we will. You assume in your last answer that when the U.S. administration gets to that point, Israel will listen.
LEVY: I do, because I think what we've seen here, Richard, is the extent of Israeli dependence on America. Israel has always been, you know, proudly asserting, we'll defend ourselves by ourselves, but you've got this constant flow of American equipment. You've got a bill going through Congress for another $14 billion in assistance, because this is wrecking the Israeli economy.
And I say that because I think the density of their relationship means that even if they can't drill that message home with Netanyahu, when you have such a discredited, unpopular prime minister, you can work with the military, you can work with other cabinet ministers, coalition allies, not the most extreme ones, and you can build the walk back with Israel. And maybe Israel also has its victory narrative already. A lot of blood. A lot of Palestinian fighters, in addition to the way higher number of civilians. So, give that victory narrative and be done with it.
QUEST: I'm grateful for your time this morning. Thank you, sir. This is CNN.
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[04:45:00]
QUEST: Many Israelis are still reeling from Hamas's deadly attack that took place October the 7th. Residents are describing the terrifying ordeal, she and her family experienced when the militant group attacked her kibbutz. They killed her daughter and kidnapped her husband. Here's what she told Wolf Blitzer. A warning, and again, what you're about to see and hear is disturbing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GALI IDAN, LOST DAUGHTER IN HAMAS ATTACK: They put us on the ground and said, stay here, don't move. If you move, you're dead. And they took all the knives that we had, said, don't do anything stupid. and meanwhile, Yael (ph), my kid, my 11-year-old, she started communicating with the commander. Asking him, why are you doing this? Why did you kill my sister? And he said, your -- don't worry. Your sister with -- is with Allah. She's safe now. She's with Allah.
Tsachi (ph) all this time cannot talk. He's shocked. He's not functioning because he saw his kid dead and he was just holding his head and crying and I was looking at him and you know when you have this impression of nothing behind it, it was like that. Tsachi (ph) is one of the strongest men I know. Every time that something happens, he's the one that holds the situation. It was painful to see him like that.
And then they said, OK. You and you, and they were pointing at Tsachi (ph) and Domri (ph), and said, you and you get up. You're coming with us. And they cuffed his hand with white stripes. And barefooted also, I think. And they said, OK, you're coming with us. And they took them. They were in front of the back door. They asked whose car is it. And, Tsachi (ph) said, this is my car. To us, they said, OK, stay on the ground or you'll be killed. We'll shoot you, or you'll be dead.
So, we stayed. We told our husbands -- Lishai (ph) and me, we said, we love you. Don't do anything stupid. Don't be a hero. Just do what they say, please, because -- and the kids started yelling. Don't take him, don't take him. And they said, no, no, it's OK. He'll be back. He'll be back. They promised the kids he'll be back.
We couldn't do anything and it was until I think 5:30 in the afternoon that we heard people talking around us, you know. And we just looked outside, peeked outside. Lishai (ph) peeked outside and said there's somebody walking around the house. They said Tsal (ph), Tsal (ph). Which is IDF, IDF. There are actually our saviors. They took us out of the house actually.
But the kids didn't want to go. They said, please, I don't want anybody else to be dead in this house. I don't want anybody else get murdered. The kids didn't want to go. It took me 20 minutes outside the kibbutz just to breathe because I couldn't breathe all the way. I held Shachar (ph) on me and Yael (ph) near me and we went out like this -- sorry.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR AND "SITUATION ROOM" HOST: Your 11-year-old daughter and your nine-year-old son.
IDAN: Yes.
BLITZER: And Tsachi (ph) had already been taken -- already been kidnapped --
IDAN: Yes.
BLITZER: And Maya (ph) and your daughter was dead -- her --
IDAN: Was dead --
BLITZER: -- and her body was left in the house?
[04:50:00]
IDAN: He was left in the house. I couldn't -- they didn't let us go there. We asked them to go to see Maya (ph) and the terrorist. They didn't let me see my daughter before I went. They didn't -- I couldn't say goodbye. I couldn't. She stayed there for three days. Her body --
BLITZER: In the house?
IDAN: Yes, in a pile of blood, you know, on the floor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Next hour, we will bring you more of that interview. She will describe the funeral for her 18-year-old daughter killed by Hamas. This is CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: CNN Journalist Ibrahim Dahman has been sharing exclusive reports of his family's struggle to stay alive and fight to get out of Gaza. We can now report they safely passed through the Rafah Border Crossing from Gaza to Egypt on Friday. For 28 days, Ibrahim says, he witnessed so much tragedy, pain and fear, and documented his journey out of Northern Gaza with his wife, Rasha, who is four months pregnant, and their two young sons, 11 and seven years old.
[04:55:00] He started teaching the children how to feed themselves in the event that his wife died. And he showed us what they had to do to survive, including drinking water that was meant to fill toilets. Now, they're out of Gaza.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
IBRAHIM DAHMAN, CNN JOURNALIST (through translator): I have been told that my family and I are on the list at the Rafah Crossing. I spent my last night in Khan Younis. We didn't hear nay aircraft or spy planes, it was a quiet night. The people who were living at the house with me were happy and sad at the same time. We were living together for more than 25 days. We ate together, went out together, shopped together, and slept in the same room as each other. We shared memories of being happy, sad and scared.
My family and I waited hours at the Rafah Crossing, passing through checkpoints but now we have finally crossed.
Today we have passed the Egyptian crossing and are heading to Cairo. Are you happy Khalil? What do you say?
KHALIL, IBRAHIM DAHMAN'S SON (through translator): The trip was hard, but it was nice too.
DAHMAN (through translator): And you Zaid?
ZAID, IBRAHIM DAHMAN'S SON (through translator): The God that we got out safely, and thank God.
DAHMAN (through translator): Thank God.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Of course, we at CNN are relieved. Ibrahim and his family are safely out of Gaza. At the same time, we acknowledge this has been a very dangerous conflict for all those working to report from the region.
At the last count, the Committee to Protect Journalists has recorded 36 journalists killed in this conflict. You see the names in front of you. The CPJ says, the four weeks since October the 7th have become the deadliest for journalists since they started keeping track in 1992.
I'm Richard Quest, more news. This is CNN.
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[05:00:00]
