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Some Question Evidence Presented By Israel Defense Forces That Hamas Used Al-Shifa Hospital Area As Military Command Center; Demonstrations Urge Israeli Government To Negotiate Hostage Releases From Gaza; Colorado Judge Rules Former President Donald Trump Can Remain On State's 2024 Presidential Primary Ballot Despite Participating In Insurrection; Republican Presidential Candidate Nikki Haley Moves Into Second Place Behind Former President Trump In Polls Of Iowa And New Hampshire; Four People Still Missing 100 Days After Lahaina Wildfires In Maui; Antisemitic Groups Taking Advantage Of Pro- Palestinian Demonstrations To Spread Hatred. Aired 2-3p ET.

Aired November 18, 2023 - 14:00   ET




FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, again, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me this Saturday. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

New today, Israel Defense Forces are now responding after questions about Hamas weapons allegedly found inside Gaza's largest hospital. Video evidence analyzed by CNN had suggested that the IDF may have rearranged weapons found at the Al-Shifa hospital before international news crews visited the scene. The IDF says the discrepancy is due to more weapons and assets being discovered throughout the day following a raid earlier this week at the facility. And it comes as Israel Defense Forces are now vowing to advance anywhere Hamas is found. There are growing signs that the IDF may soon expand its operations into southern Gaza.

Right now, families of hostages are gathered in Tel Aviv pleading with the Israeli government to ensure their loved ones' safe return. That's where we find CNN's Jeremy Diamond. Jeremy, what are you hearing from people gathered?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fred, thousands of families of hostages and friends and loved ones are here in Tel Aviv gathered to try to pressure the Israeli government to ensure that they reach a deal to release some of the hostages in Gaza in exchange for a multi-day ceasefire. We know that there have been reports for days now, weeks even, of a potential deal on the table that is being mediated by the Qatari government between Israel and Hamas. And for many of these families, the anxiety of not knowing whether that deal will actually come through is really unbearable.

We spoke with the family of Yarden Roman who is one of the 237 or so estimated hostages held inside Gaza. She was actually kidnapped with her husband and her daughter. But ultimately, she effectively sacrificed herself as her family made a run for it. Her husband and her daughter were able to get away, and her husband was here speaking tonight. We spoke with her cousin tonight and we asked her what her message is to the Israeli prime minister. Here is her answer.


MIA ROMAN, COUSIN OF HOSTAGE YARDEN ROMAN: Our message to them, which we have also communicated to them directly, is we think there should be a deal now. And we understand there are things we don't know, there are considerations we can't be told about. We believe in you. Yarden's daughter believes in us. She always tells us that she knows we're working to get her mom back. She sees us all working there all the time, and she knows we're all doing it to get her back. So kind of in the same way, I have to believe that they're doing everything to get her back. And our faith, I hope that you can prove our faith was not wrongly given and that you can prove us right and make sure that they start coming back home, because the families need it. The families need it desperately.


DIAMOND: And while it's unclear whether the Israeli government to going to reach a deal to free some of the hostages from Gaza, what is clear is that there were two marches today, the thousands of people here in Tel Aviv, and also tens of thousands of people in front of the prime minister's office. And at least for now, the Israeli prime minister has now agreed to meet with the families of these hostages in addition to the full war cabinet. And so at least if there was anything drawn from today, it appears to have at least pressured the Israeli prime minister to meet with these families once again and to move forward in hopes of reaching some kind of a deal for the release of some of these hostages.

WHITFIELD: And Jeremy, what is the IDF saying about the operation in Gaza today, if anything?

DIAMOND: They say that they're continuing to expand their ground operation inside the Gaza Strip. They say they operated the last 24 hours inside the Jabalia refugee camp as well as the Zeitoun neighborhood of Gaza City. And effectively what they are doing is conducting clearing operations. We heard the Israeli defense minister just a few days ago say that the Israeli military has control of the northern part of the Gaza Strip. But while they may have control in some areas, clearly these operations indicate that they are still clearing out areas of Hamas militants, and also, of course, those tunnels, dozens of miles of tunnels underneath the Gaza Strip that still present an enormous challenge and a threat to Israeli forces operating there. Fred?

WHITFIELD: Jeremy Diamond, thanks so much, in Tel Aviv.

Let's talk more about the latest developments with CNN military analyst and retired Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton. Colonel, great to see you. So is it your view that at this point, Israel, should it be bringing in a third party, third-party observers to verify some of the claims that are being made in Gaza and the hospital in particular? COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, Fredricka, good

to be with you. I think the answer is yes in this particular case, because everything that the Israelis have said when it comes to all of the claims that they've made, there's a lot of intelligence to back up what their claims are. However, once the proof comes out, they have difficulty convincing people on the outside, whether it's people of the Arab world, people here in the United States, people in Europe. It becomes essential for them to have a third party to verify the claims. And if they are true, so much the better for the Israelis. If they are not true, then, of course, it indicates that there's a moment where they have to reassess their intelligence that they have on Hamas and then go from there. But it would definitely be in their interest to have a third party look at this.

WHITFIELD: And credibility is also at stake, particularly for Israel, when we're seeing reports now, we're seeing videotape documenting that civilians at the encouragement of a humanitarian pause are being told they may have 30 minutes in which to evacuate, only to now see on videotape people injured and killed. How is this setting back the Israeli strategy of going after Hamas, and at the same time claiming to have these humanitarian pauses to try to reduce the civilian casualty count, only for civilians to be killed during these humanitarian pauses?

LEIGHTON: Yes, it's absolutely unacceptable to have civilians killed during what are supposed to be humanitarian pauses. The civilians need to be handled very carefully. The rules of war are pretty explicit in that regard. And it's also clear that Hamas has violated a lot of the rules of war as well. But the key thing for the Israelis is that they have to behave in a way that is far more considerate, far more in concert with the rules of war.

And that is something where, when it comes to things like humanitarian pauses, they need to be held. And they also need to give the civilian population there safe areas in which they can go. The Israeli effort that has been announced over the last 24 hours to attack other areas of Gaza is going to be a problem if the Israelis go into areas where refugees are. And that's going to not only look bad, but it really puts a lot of people at risk. And that's something that the Israelis really do need to avoid at this point.

WHITFIELD: Doesn't that seem inevitable at this point as the IDF is saying it's moving south, and that is the area where they had asked people in the northern Gaza to evacuate to? So how does Israel go after its mission, defeat Hamas, and not take out more civilians?

LEIGHTON: Yes, it's a real problem for them, because those two goals, the military objective that the Israelis have of, in essence, destroying Hamas's military capability along with its political capability, that does conflict, especially if the tactical and other movements are in other parts of the territory, such as the southern part, that does conflict with the goal of protecting the civilians.


And it does also indicate that the Israelis have a very limited area in which they can operate, but of course the civilians in Gaza have no place to go. And without the safety valve of being allowed to, let's say, move into Egypt, the Egyptians are not allowing that. If they don't have that, then there is truly no place for the civilian population to go. And the Israelis have to very cognizant of that and modify their operations to reflect that.

The key thing here is this should not be a full-blown military force on force invasion. What it should be is a counterinsurgency operation, and that is something that the Israelis really need to, in essence, change their tactics and move in that direction in order to safeguard as many people as they possibly can.

WHITFIELD: Colonel Cedric Leighton, thank you so much. Have a great holiday week.

The IDF says there are currently 237 hostages held by Hamas in Gaza. Today thousands march across Israel, calling on their government to do more to bring them home. It has been six agonizing weeks of not knowing where their loved ones are or how they're doing. CNN's Nic Robertson met with families of some of the hostages and has more on the efforts to bring them home.


NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: These are the moments, October 7th, where Nir Oz kibbutz began its nightmare. By the time the IDF arrived that afternoon, nearly one-fifth of the residents would be kidnapped. Sagui Dekel-Chen was one of the more than 70 taken.

Sagui was here at his workshop renovating buses when Hamas attacked at 6:30 in the morning. Eventually he was able to make it back to his house, help barricade his wife and children into the bomb shelter. That was the last they saw of him.

JONATHAN DEKEL-CHEN, FATHER OF HOSTAGE: He made his wife swear that she wouldn't open the door for anyone.

ROBERTSON: Jonathan, Sagui's father, is caring for his son's family, campaigning for his release.

DEKEL-CHEN: He's the kind of son who can complete thoughts for me. A big part of me is absent right now because of Sagui, and also, honestly, because of the other losses on the kibbutz.

Some of them entire families, actually, that were murdered. Their lives were intertwined with my family's life for the last 40 years.

ROBERTSON: What's left of the kibbutz community is still intertwined, most everyone together, hundreds of miles away. They have each other, but their nightmare continues.

How do you think the community is coping? You're kind of altogether. Does that help?

NIR ADAR, BROTHER OF HOSTAGE: Yes and no, because it's not always lifting you. Sometimes it's dragging you down.


ADAR: Yes. Because people are traumatized and hurt.

ROBERTSON: Nir Adar is hurting. His brother Tamir is another one of the hostages taken October 7th.

ADAR: I have some days I feel great, and I feel strong and an optimist. And I have some days I feel the complete opposite.

ROBERTSON: Nir survived the attack hiding in here, in his bomb shelter, with his two young daughters. He whispered fairy stories as the hours-long battle raged around them.

ADAR: So much shooting, not only from guns, but RPGs and grenades. When I heard them break in my house, so I told my girls that a tree fell down on the house.

ROBERTSON: It wasn't until he came out of his house here that Nir began to realize that his brother may not have been as lucky as him. Just a few meters away, his brother's house was on fire.

His brother's house was gutted. No proof of life from Hamas for him or Jonathan's son.

DEKEL-CHEN: It's excruciating. He is the father of two little girls, married to Avital, who is now eight months pregnant. And so it is a nightmarish situation. We don't know if he's healthy or wounded. We know nothing. It's a fate shared by, as I said, almost all of the 75 hostages still being held.

ROBERTSON: Already feeling left down by the IDF's slow response October 7th, concerns in the community are growing The government may let Nir Oz and others down again.

ADAR: They talk about to make a deal with the kidnapped people and to bring back the babies and the women, and then I'm afraid that the men will be left behind.


ADAR: Because I think since that day, we can't really trust the government.

ROBERTSON: The lack of trust in the government is also adding to their nightmare.


Even if they do get their loved ones back, could they ever return to Nir Oz?

DEKEL-CHEN: We don't know if we'll ever be able to move back to the kibbutz.

ROBERTSON: Are people ready for that?

DEKEL-CHEN: In order to go back, certainly for our younger families, my children and grandchildren would have to have a guarantee from our army, from our government, that this could never happen again.

ROBERTSON: Would you go back?

ADAR: It's very hard to answer. If the situation is same as now, never, never, no chance.

ROBERTSON: The community is working on other locations that will help them stay together. Their dream life in Nir Oz not a distant memory, but still a living nightmare.

Nic Robertson, CNN, El'ad.


WHITFIELD: Still ahead, a Colorado judge rules Donald Trump can be on the state's ballot, but also says he engaged in the January 6th insurrection. We'll talk about what that means next.

Plus, a new poll shows that while Trump maintains a significant lead among likely GOP primary voters in New Hampshire, former South Carolina governor Nikki Haley has moved into second place. We'll talk about what that means for the Republican presidential field.



WHITFIELD: A Colorado judge has ruled former President Donald Trump can remain on the state's 2024 presidential primary ballot. The district judge says Trump engaged in an insurrection on January 6th but ruled the 14th Amendment insurrectionist ban does not apply to U.S. presidents. Joining me is CNN reporter Marshall Cohen. Marshall, break down this ruling for us.

MARSHALL COHEN, CNN REPORTER: Hey, Fred. A huge ruling in a very closely watched case in Colorado. The judge there, as you mentioned, reaching the remarkable conclusion that Donald Trump engaged in an insurrection against the United States Constitution for his actions after the 2020 election and for inciting the riot at the U.S. Capitol on January 6th. However, the Constitution's ban on insurrectionists from holding office does not apply to presidents, and therefore, he will remain on the ballot in Colorado. That was the big question in this case, does he have to be taken off the ballot or can he stay.

Now, the judge in Denver concluded that the text of the Constitution, the text of this amendment, 14th Amendment, says very clearly that you can't be a senator, you can't be a representative, you can't hold other offices if you engage in insurrection. But it doesn't say anything about the presidency, and she wanted to stick to the text of the Constitution. So that was her ruling. Trump stays on the ballot. It's a win for him. But this is going to be appealed. Fred, this is probably not the final word in this case. A lot of people are expecting these questions to go all the way to the Supreme Court. But it's another win for Trump after wins in a few other states, too.

WHITFIELD: And even though Trump will stay on the ballot there in Colorado, there were some really damning findings in here. What did the judge say about his actions on January 6th, besides the fact that she did declare that he's guilty of being an insurrectionist?

COHEN: Right. So there were a lot of things that she had to look at. She presided over a week-long trial with testimony from witnesses, from a man who was part of the mob, a Trump supporter, from police officers who were victims of the fight. So this is the biggest fact- finding operation by a judge to date looking at Donald Trump's conduct. And one of her big conclusions was that he acted with a specific intent to incite political violence that day. That was the basis of her conclusion that he engaged in insurrection, that she was -- that he directed it at the Capitol with the purpose of disrupting the electoral certification on January 6th. However, as you said, Fred, it did not rise to the level of disqualification from office.

WHITFIELD: Marshall Cohen, good to see you. Thanks so much.

Still to come, Donald Trump returns to Iowa today with the GOP caucuses in that key state just eight weeks away. We're live in Iowa right after this.


WHITFIELD: Former president Trump is in Iowa today. His visit to the Hawkeye state comes just eight weeks before the Iowa Republican caucuses are held. Trump and several other GOP presidential candidates are all hitting the state hard to court voters.

CNN's Alayna Treene joins us now from Fort Dodge, Iowa. Alayna, where does this race stand in this state? What's happening there today, in fact?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes, well, Fred, Donald Trump is by and far still commanding the polls here in Iowa. He is leading. His challenger is at 43 percent, a recent poll showed 43 percent of likely Republican caucus goers support Donald Trump. And the closest rival to that was both Ron DeSantis and Nikki Haley with just 16 percent. And so his team is feeling very good heading into this final stretch before the January 15 caucuses.

But look, he is still aggressively campaigning in this state in the hopes and attempt to really try and quash any sort of challenge, last- minute challenge, I should say, that the other candidates are trying to mount against him, in the hopes to maybe try and undermine his candidacy.

But I will say, he wasn't the only one in Iowa this weekend. The other top Republican contenders also converged on the state this weekend. And many of them, Ron DeSantis, Nikki Haley, Vivek Ramaswamy, went to an event last night hosted by an evangelical group. It was a Thanksgiving forum. And they talked a lot about their faith and how their religion impacts them personally. And one of the most prominent topics was about abortion, and that was

very salient give the audience, the majority Christian audience in the room. And at one point, Nikki Haley, someone who, unlike her Republican challengers, has not backed a national abortion ban, said that she would sign, if she were still South Carolina governor, an abortion ban -- excuse me, a bill banning most abortions after six weeks.

Another big moment in the night was when Ron DeSantis and Vivek Ramaswamy shared some really deeply personal stories. They both opened up for the first time about how their wives had previously had miscarriages. And so it was a really cozy event, and they opened up and got very personal.

And really the only other thing I want to tell you, Fred, is that the big elephant in the room was that Donald Trump was not there.


He was invited to that Thanksgiving forum, but he chose not to attend, instead, skipping the event to hold his own rally here in Fort Dodge today. And that's in keeping with his fast snubs of the primary process as well as his challengers. Fred?

WHITFIELD: I was going to say, that's been the pattern. So while he may have been the elephant in the room, I guess they're getting used to it, because he doesn't often show up when everybody else is there. Alayna Treene, thank you so much.

With me now to talk more about the GOP race overall, Charlie Dent is with us. He is a former Republican congressman from Pennsylvania, and Scott Jennings, a CNN political commentator and a former special assistant to President George W. Bush. Good to see you both, gentlemen.

Charlie, let me begin with you. So Trump remains the clear frontrunner in Iowa and in all the other states, but Nikki Haley is surging. She's tied for second in that NBC Iowa poll, and a recent New Hampshire poll shows her also jumping in second place in that state. So following commanding appearances, perhaps, televised debates, is that what might contribute to her rise in the polls?

CHARLIE DENT, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, Nikki Haley has grown as a candidate. I think she was underestimated by a lot of folks early on, and she might have been a little too careful early on. But her debate performances have been strong. And she's one of the only candidates, along with Chris Christie, who have really kept an eye on the general electorate. In other words, they're not just simply playing for the hardest elements of the base, engaging the culture warfare. That's not what she seems to be about. So I think she's run a pretty smart, measured campaign.

That said, Donald Trump is in a commanding lead. And right now, second place doesn't do it. Ron DeSantis is clearly, his candidacy has been diminishing for some time. He's hoping for a miracle in Iowa. But right now, it looks like Nikki Haley is emerging as the consensus alternative to Donald Trump. The question is, can Trump stumble, and can she breakthrough in the end?

WHITFIELD: And Scott, do you see that while Haley is on the way up, Ron DeSantis, he could be in trouble, especially when it comes to donors?

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Sure. Haley looks like she's attracting some of the bigger donors right now. You can see them in the press out there talking about how they want to gravitate toward her. DeSantis has plenty of money to prosecute the campaign that he's trying to run. I think I agree with Charlie. Iowa is a big deal here. If he can get close to Trump in Iowa, maybe overtake Trump in Iowa, which is, by the way, no sure thing. They're all very far back from Donald Trump, then that gives you a springboard.

And for Haley, her campaign has really been rising in New Hampshire and seems to be built more for New Hampshire right now. Trump is ahead in both states. He's ahead nationally. He's not descending into the campaign sort of stuff that everybody else seems to have to do right now, because he doesn't want to look like he's fighting these people. He wants to look like he's already got it locked up, and there's not that much time left, to be honest. So I think DeSantis still has a fighting chance, frankly, in Iowa. He's got a big organization there. And Haley is trying to get rid of the other anti-Trump candidates so she can continue to rise in New Hampshire. Still a long shot for both of them.

WHITFIELD: So Charlie, let's zero in, though, on Haley, because recent polls, while they show Trump narrowly leading Biden in a handful of battleground states, a recent Marquette Law School national survey showed Haley leading Biden in a hypothetical national matchup by 10 points. So, Charlie, does this help Haley make the argument that she has a better chance of beating Biden than Trump?

DENT: Of course. Close to two-thirds of American voters want someone other than Donald Trump or Joe Biden. They think one of these candidates is too old, Joe Biden, the other too crazy, Donald Trump. And Nikki Haley represents the next generation of leadership. She is a very strong, smart, attractive candidate, again, with an eye towards the general election. Team Biden is very worried about her. That's why they're attacking her, as they should, because they know she's very formidable. If Nikki Haley were the nominee, and again, that's a longshot, because right now she's fighting for second place. And second place might as well be last place. But unless -- she's going to have to start tearing the bark off of Donald Trump, all of them are, if they hope to face Joe Biden and get into that matchup, which would be favorable terrain for Nikki Haley and Republicans more broadly.

WHITFIELD: So Scott, to borrow that phrase, tear the bark off, how does Haley and DeSantis do that, since Trump is so far out ahead?

JENNINGS: Well, the reality is you don't. Everybody has tried. Ads don't work. Rhetoric doesn't work. What you're going to have to hope if you're either of them is that there's enough Republicans, half or more of the Republican Party, that says, ultimately, we love you, but it's time for you to move on, Donald Trump. That does not appear to be the case right now. [14:35:00]

The other thing for Haley is she came before Trump. DeSantis is largely a creature of the post-Trump era. Haley came before Trump, and one question about the Republican Party is, in terms of alignment, does it want to go back to politicians from the pre-Trump era, people like Haley who could maybe appeal to a larger coalition of voters out there who speak the language that the Republican Party used to speak before Donald Trump came along and rewrote the alphabet for Republican candidates.

I don't know if there are. If there is to be somebody, she is the most polished politician from that era who is still left out there making the case. More hawkish, more internationalist, more into free trade, all the traditional conservative issues. She certainly knows how to speak that language. The question is, does the party still want you to speak that, or are they looking for something else? And she's certainly hoping to be a bit of a throwback here in a way that Mike Pence and Tim Scott and others could not do.

WHITFIELD: Interesting. And Charlie, Trump has been steering clear of the GOP debates. So far it doesn't seem to be hurting him. But if Haley continues to surge, at some point -- at what point do you see that he will be willing to jump into the debates?

DENT: Well, right now it seems that Donald Trump's strategy of avoiding debates is working just fine. I suspect he will continue down that path, unless there's so much pressure that he needs to get in or he starts losing support because of it. But so far it doesn't appear that way.

And something that Scott said I think is true. The Republican Party really does need to make a choice. If Trump is gone, do we want Trumpism and that type of orientation, nativist, protectionist, isolationist, anti-trade, anti free trade? Or do we want to go back to a politician like Nikki Haley? And that's another issue for the Republican Party to sort out right now. I still think we're not there. Where do we want to go.

I would prefer to have somebody a lot more traditional, and maybe Scott would, too, than what we have right now. And so right now, though, Nikki Haley's job is to try to break through this thing, do as well as she can in Iowa and New Hampshire, and hope that Republican voters recognize that there's too great a risk with Donald Trump, with all these indictments, four indictments, 91 counts. It's a bridge too far. And hopefully we're all hoping that Republican voters will come to that realization, too great a risk.

WHITFIELD: Charlie Dent, Scott Jennings, we'll leave it there. Thanks so much. You gentlemen have a great holiday week.

DENT: Thanks, Fred.

JENNINGS: Thanks, Fred.

WHITFIELD: Coming up, more than 100 days after the devastating Maui wildfire, a former NASA engineer, a father, an author, and a mother are still unaccounted for. The latest on new searches for the missing after a quick break.



WHITFIELD: More than 100 days have passed since the cataclysmic wildfire that destroyed Lahaina on Maui, and four people are still missing. Four families that are without answers months after the devastating fire. And now local law enforcement has launched new searches within Lahaina's burn zone to help find out what happened to them. CNN's Mike Valerio joins me now with more on this. Mike, what can you tell us about these four who remain missing?

MIKE VALERIO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fredricka, based on what we've been able to uncover, we know that the four people who still, to this day, are classified as technically missing, one of them, as you mentioned before the break, is a former engineer for NASA. Another one is a published author who also doubles as an artist in Lahaina. Another is a father of two. And then the fourth is a beloved mother who, Fred, has lost eight, an astounding eight members of her extended family. But the officers you're going to meet in a few seconds have said they are not finished searching for them.



MIKE VALERIO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): More than 100 days later, it is still nearly incomprehensible, taking in all that is lost.

BRAD TAYLOR, MAUI POLICE OFFICER: You're there with the person as they're sobbing, and you see firsthand the trauma.

VALERIO: Maui police officers Brad Taylor and Steven Landsiedel are two of the heroes whose taskforce has investigated every single missing persons' case from the Lahaina fire.

STEVEN LANDSIEDEL, MAUI POLICE OFFICER: We're working towards the goal of making sure anybody who has a lost loved one, we're able to find them or give them closure.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on, come on, come on. Everybody out. Everybody out. Everybody out.

VALERIO: But that has been elusive for the families of four people not seen since the paroxysm of the fire. Among those who are still missing is Robert Owens.

LANDSIEDEL: We learned that he used to work for NASA as an engineer. Paul Kasprzycki, he is a resident of Lahaina. He's a local artist, a boat builder, a woodworker, and he's a published author, and also a father of two.

Elmer Stevens, he also frequents Lahaina. He's a father of two and he does find solace in the quiet pleasures of life.

VALERIO: The fourth still missing is Lydia Coloma.

LANDSIEDEL: Lydia is a Lahaina resident. She is a mother, a wife, a well-respected community member.

VALERIO: According to Honolulu Civil Beat, an astounding eight of Coloma's family members lost their lives in the Lahaina fire.

TONY EARLES, CSI, MAUI POLICE DEPARTMENT: We still are getting family reference samples coming in.

VALERIO: Tony Earles leads the Maui Police CSI team, and he says as of now, there's one set of human remains that hasn't been identified yet.

EARLES: We have ideas of who we think it is.

VALERIO: But he adds, when it comes to putting a name to the remains --

EARLES: I can guarantee it'll be days, if not weeks, or maybe even months.

VALERIO: This week, officers Taylor and Landsiedel are planning new burn zone searches.

TAYLOR: Steve and I are still going out into the rubble, into the burn zone. We'll find new information out and we're really -- we want to make sure -- we want to get the rest of those people.

VALERIO: Officer Taylor told us he knew some of the victims.


TAYLOR: One of the unfortunate ways I found out was we would get the DNA confirmation sheets, and I was reading through it so I could find out what it was. And I read the name, and it was from a former coworker. She used to work with the police department. And when I started my career, I worked closely with her.

VALERIO: And Officer Landsiedel was already changed, deeply affected by devastating wildfires.

LANDSIEDEL: My hometown is Paradise, California, so they went through this. And so, I made it an effort to get into this position so that I could be beneficial for the department and be there for the families and friends because I have families and friends in Paradise that lost their homes and everything.

VALERIO: For now, it's been 100 days of work. Both officers remain hopeful there will be answers and eventual solace for the families of the four who are still missing.

TAYLOR: When I set out to this, it was no stone unturned, no one left behind. And I am hopeful and committed and dedicated to make sure that I reach that goal. (END VIDEO TAPE)

VALERIO (on camera): So Fred, the natural, and certainly very, very delicate question coming out of the story is whether we can consider the four people who are listed as technically missing likely lost in the fire. And the answer is no, we can't make that assumption as of yet. And this is why. We're going to bring you back to the last weekend of October. That's when there were five people on the missing list. We here at CNN were the first to confirm Maui police found one person that was on the missing list alive and healthy, bringing the missing total to four just before Halloween. So there is a mix of emotions, whether it be realistic expectations that the worst could unfold for those four. But there is also hope, Fred, as Maui moves forward.

WHITFIELD: Got to keep that hope. Mike Valerio, thank you so much.

VALERIO: You bet.

WHITFIELD: We'll be right back.


WHITFIELD: Right now to the rise of hate speech here in the U.S., particularly in the wake of the Hamas terror attacks on Israel. CNN's Donie O'Sullivan looked at how hate groups in this country are actively trying to stoke antisemitism. And we should warn you that some of the images you're about to see are offensive.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go, Hamas. Go, Hamas.

DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): These are not typical pro-Palestine supporters protesting outside the White House.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a bunch of lies. Just like your - holocaust bull. It's a bunch of lies.

O'SULLIVAN: They're part of an antisemitic group founded by white supremacist.


CROWD: Jewish lies.

O'SULLIVAN: Some of the same people who were behind the 2017 Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, Virginia.

CROWD: Jews will not replace us!

O'SULLIVAN: They're just one of multiple hate groups in the United States using the Israel-Hamas conflict to push an agenda of antisemitism. But extremists are not just showing up at pro- Palestinian protests. They're dumping antisemitic fliers in neighborhoods across the country. It's happened in 35 states so far this year.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just can't believe the hate that still exist. And, you know, towards the Jewish people. And so I totally despise this.

O'SULLIVAN: Some of the flyers are the work of the Goyim Defense League, a network of antisemitic extremists who are also linked to disruptions at city council meetings across the country. They call in to spew hate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's always the Jews.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The American slave trade was Jewish.

O'SULLIVAN: But a few weeks ago in Calabasas, a new tactic using artificial intelligence.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, I'm John Greenblatt, and I'm the CEO of the Anti-Defamation League.

O'SULLIVAN: That may sound like Jonathan Greenblatt, the head of the ADL, a top organization that combats hate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The ADL indeed tracks antisemitic incidents.

O'SULLIVAN: But it wasn't him. It was actually a fake voice created using A.I.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are finally admitting the truth about the fliers at

O'SULLIVAN: The Goyim Defense League celebrated the call-in stunt which made it sound like the ADL was endorsing the hate groups' antisemitic fliers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We simply cannot debunk them. They are true.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is just an attempt by individuals to disrupt and demean and shock people and get a response that affects others.

O'SULLIVAN: The head of the group is currently serving a 30-day jail sentence in Florida for littering charges related to the antisemitic fliers.

BEN DECKER, CEO, MEMETICA: Communities, unfortunately, are sharing active footage from Hamas celebrating the deaths of Jewish people.

O'SULLIVAN: Ben Decker leads a threat analysis company that tracks online hate. He says there has been a massive spike in support for Hamas by American extremists, much of it on 4chan, a notorious hate- filled sites. And the extremists are taking it a step further, using A.I. not only to imitate, but also to actually create antisemitic and hateful images.

DECKER: There's this weird fusion that began to occur in which actual Hamas propaganda started to aesthetically blend with antisemitic tropes and memes that have been on 4chan for years.

O'SULLIVAN: The threats are serious and drawing the attention of law enforcement. In this document obtained by CNN, the Department of Homeland Security warns that U.S. hate groups continue to call for violence, are celebrating attacks on the Jewish community, and that they could use the Hamas attacks as an inspiration to fight.

CROWD: Go home, Nazis. Go home, Nazis.

O'SULLIVAN: Real pro-Palestine protesters made it clear to us, they don't want anything to do with these hate groups.

Neo-Nazi hate groups showing up to demonstrations like this, how does that make you feel?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it's horrible. I think it fully derails the entire movement.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: White supremacist opportunists who are using the Palestinian cause as a vehicle for their prejudice are not welcome. The Palestinian freedom movement stands against all forms of hatred, against anti-Jewish hatred just as we stand against all forms of racism.



O'Sullivan (on camera): And this really highlights how artificial intelligence technology, whether it's the creation of deepfake video, fake audio, or fake images there, as you saw in that report, can really be used to supercharge misinformation, disinformation, and it really is something we all have to be on the lookout for, and social media platforms and political parties will have to be very wary of as we go into 2024 with critical elections here in the United States, in India, and elsewhere around the world. Back to you.

WHITFIELD: Thanks so much, Donie O'Sullivan.

We'll be right back.


WHITFIELD: Hello, again, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me this Saturday. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.