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CNN International: Israel: Hostage Release & Temporary Truce With Hamas Delayed; Qatar To Announce Soon When Israel-Hamas Truce Will Begin: Source Says Friday At The Earliest; IDF: Director Of Al Shifa Hospital Detained. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired November 23, 2023 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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MAX FOSTER, HOST, "CNN NEWSROOM": Hello. You're watching CNN Newsroom. I'm Max Foster in London.

We could find out any moment now when Israel's four-day truce with Hamas will begin. Qatari officials who have been instrumental in the negotiations are set to hold a press conference at any moment. The four-day pause in fighting and the release of hostages was originally expected to begin today, but an Israeli official tells CNN that won't happen until tomorrow now. On Tuesday, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu expressed confidence the agreement would go into effect soon. The White House says some final logistical details being worked out. CNN's Oren Liebermann joins me live in Tel Aviv. So much delay in this process, but it is immensely complex.

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is, and that's why it took weeks to get here to the point where we had an agreement that could be agreed to by Hamas, Israel, Qatar, Egypt and others. And then, in the last sort of final steps, the last details to actually make this happen, this final delay. Of course, we expected that the agreement would have already gone into effect today, only to find out fairly late last night when Israel's National Security Council said it would not go into effect before tomorrow. So, certainly leaving open the possibility that there will be a further delay although that's not the expectation on the ground right now.

Crucially, even with these delays, the process is moving forward, and that would be the pause in fighting that we expect, and that then will be followed by the release of Israeli hostages held in Gaza. 10 to 12 at a time, women and children over the course of four days, in exchange for the release of 150 Palestinian prisoners, women and children released from Israeli prisons.

Now, we have learned a bit more about how the process will play out. Hamas will everyday transfer the group of women and children to the Red Cross. The Red Cross will then bring them to points on the Gaza border, either with Egypt at the Rafah crossing, or with several options on the Israeli border, to then hand them to the IDF, to Israeli soldiers, who will take them to hospitals for immediate evaluations and then for reunions with their families who have been waiting for weeks now for news of their loved ones, and of course to see them. Max.

FOSTER: Yes. I want to ask you about them because it's excruciating for them watching this process unfold not knowing when the hostages will be released, not knowing whether their hostage, their family members as hostage will be released. How are they responding to all of this, well, all the delay?

LIEBERMANN: It's difficult. They've been -- they thought they've been here before. There had been rumors that a deal was imminent, that a deal was coming over the past several weeks, and then that was scattered. It simply didn't come to fruition. And now, to be this close and only to find out there is another delay, it's even more difficult for the families. And you're right that there is no list right now of what 50 will come out in the first batch, and that makes this even more challenging. But, it is, excuse me, excuse me, it is part of the process.

FOSTER: Yes. Absolutely. Let's see, Oren, thank you.

Let's bring in Brian Finucane, the Senior Advisor to the U.S. Program at the International Crisis Group. He joins me now from Washington, D.C. I mean, you probably know as much as us at this point. But, what do you make of it all?

BRIAN FINUCANE, SENIOR ADVISOR TO THE U.S. PROGRAM AT THE INTL. CRISIS GROUP: Well, we're obviously hopeful that this pause will take effect. But, what's more important is extending the pause into a more lasting and durable cessation in hostilities that will allow for negotiations. It allows for longer-term humanitarian relief to the population in Gaza. It will allow for a cessation in the destruction and killing of civilians in Gaza. It's important to remember that a four-day pause will not buy anything in the conflict. Well, it is a good start, and is necessary. It is not sufficient.

And so, we hope that the parties in the conflict, Hamas and the Israeli government, will seize this opportunity even if they, purely on the Israeli side they don't contemplate this being a longer term cessation, seize this opportunity to extend this to be a longer term cessation of hostilities.

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FOSTER: Yes. They're all the Qataris, and in an interview with CNN yesterday, suggested that the truce could transition potentially to a ceasefire. What do you make of that?

FINUCANE: Well, we're obviously hopeful that that will come to pass (ph), and we think that the parties should endeavor to make that happen and say, even if that's not currently contemplated by the Israeli government, and there have been statements to that effect, and we hope that outside parties, the Qataris, the United States, obviously, can help facilitate that extension of this pause and the transformation of this pause into a more longer-term ceasefire or cessation of hostilities. FOSTER: Equally, it could be cut short --

FINUCANE: And I didn't know --

FOSTER: -- if someone the breaks the truce.

FINUCANE: It could. It could, absolutely. I just want to make clear why a longer-term cessation of hostilities is important, not just for the humanitarian, obvious humanitarian reasons of the population of Gaza, but also because of the increasing risk of a wider regional conflict associated with the fighting in Gaza where you've seen this uptick in attacks on U.S. forces in the region. You've seen attacks launched from Yemen against Israel. And so, the longer that the conflict in Gaza persists, the greater the risk of an escalating conflict in the region becomes.

FOSTER: We need to talk a bit about aid as well, because aid is part of this deal. It's not just about Israeli hostages or Palestinian prisoners or indeed a ceasefire. It's not getting aid in. And what do you understand about the aid that will get in? I mean, it's not going to be enough. But, it's going to be a huge help. Isn't it?

FINUCANE: It will be. I mean, a pause, a humanitarian pause is the only way to get any sort of aid into the Gaza Strip. And therefore the longer that the pause can be extended, the better it will be. Obviously, this will be for the population in Gaza in terms of getting absolutely vital humanitarian assistance to the population.

FOSTER: OK. Thank you so much for joining us, Brian Finucane in Washington, D.C.

A bit more on that. Then the Israeli Security Agency says the Director of Gaza's (ph) largest hospital, Al-Shifa, has been arrested. Other doctors were reportedly taken into custody as well. The director was reportedly arrested whilst evacuating with the World Health Organization convoy. A statement from the Israeli Security Agency says Hamas was running a command and control center at the hospital under his direct management.

Meanwhile, after weeks of unfathomable grief and loss, many Gazans simply want to rebuild their lives. CNN's Nada Bashir shows us the grim reality of everyday life in Gaza, and a warning, her report contains disturbing images.

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NADA BASHIR, CNN REPORTER (voice-over): The Gaza Strip pounded for yet another night. In the Maghazi neighborhood in central Gaza, wounded are rushed to a nearby hospital. Children badly injured, barely breathing, medical staff overwhelmed, struggling to cope with the mounting casualties and growing humanitarian disaster. In the south, more unbearable grief, bodies wrapped in white. Members of the Khalusa (ph) and Abbas families, old and young, killed in a strike on their building in Khan Younis. Their lives cut short barely just hours after Israel's cabinet agreed to temporarily pause in fighting later this week in exchange for the release of 50 hostages. The truce will be a crucial window to get much needed aid into Gaza. But, for those who have already lost so much, the news has brought little hope.

What kind of truce are they discussing? A truce just to allow some aid in? Maisara (ph) asks. We don't want that. We will manage with bread. What we truly want is not a truce for aid. We want our homes back. We want to return to our streets. What is the point of a truce if I can't return to my home, if I can't check on my children, my parents or our businesses, Saddam (ph) says. This truce is pointless. We've been sleeping on the streets for 45 days. We have no shelter, no home, nowhere to seek refuge. In the south, the very place people are told to evacuate to seek refuge.

More buildings are turned to rubble overnight. Countless graves being dug each day. The death toll now topping 12,000, according to the Palestinian Ministry of Health citing data from Hamas-controlled Gaza.

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Another desperate plea to God, another child killed, relatives struggling to cope. Their grief, fear to only get worse. Israel's Prime Minister vowing the war will continue after the truce ends. And with it more bloodshed. Nada Bashir, CNN, in Jerusalem.

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FOSTER: As soon as the truce in Gaza actually starts, aid will begin flowing, so desperate Palestinians can get some relief at least. Eleni Giokos chucking that part of the story from Egypt for us. I mean, how much is going to get in even when the truce begins, Eleni?

ELENI GIOKOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Look, from what we've been seeing, that huge convoy of trucks from Al Arish into the Rafah border, waiting for the truce to kick in. And we're hearing from the Egyptians that that is set to happen tomorrow, that these aid trucks are ready and waiting at the border, more trucks than we've ever seen over the past couple of weeks, which, of course, is big -- one big element of this breakthrough deal that is about to start.

We have not seen enough aid going into Gaza since October 7. And I'd like to remind you, there were over 458 trucks going in on a normal day before with this war broke out. So, it's just been a trickle, and the international aid organizations have been talking about running out of food and water and importantly fuel. But, from November 21, we actually started to see some fuel going in. And the reason that fuel is important, it's keeping the generators on, keeping the hospitals going. And horror story is, Max, frankly, from the doctors about running out of anesthetics to operate with, to amputate. I mean, it's really been difficult to listen to these firsthand accounts coming out from Gaza.

Over the next few days, the hope is that it's going to alleviate some of the pressure. But, the Norwegian Refugee Crescent is saying that it's not enough. They need a full out ceasefire in order to get sustained humanitarian aid into Gaza. And Martin Griffiths from the United Nations yesterday said to CNN that while they do negotiate with the Egyptians, they also negotiate with Israel. But, Israel does have the final say in terms of creating those humanitarian corridors, and just how many trucks of food and fuel and medicine get to go into Gaza. So, this is one element of this very critical negotiation to see the release of hostages finally, some of those hostages, and then also to alleviate the humanitarian pressure.

Speaking to some of the foreign nationals and dual nationals that I met in my hotel, they were telling me that they had run out of food and water for many days, and they were scrambling just to find a piece of bread. And that just gives you a glimpse of what it's like to be like -- to live in Gaza right now, and then continue on our conversations with the doctors on the ground, and understanding just how harrowing the situation is. This four-day truce is going to be important once we start seeing those eight trucks going in. Of course, there is always a delay because they've got to be checked. There is a checking process, but then hopefully handed over to the humanitarian organizations first and foremost.

FOSTER: I wish to say something, it should be about the bravery of these truck drivers and also the aid workers. I was speaking to Oxfam earlier, and obviously they're concerned that if there is a break in the truce, and they're operating in the area, they are a huge risk.

GIOKOS: There are absolutely huge risks. From what I understand from a logistical perspective, I mean, apart from the fact and think about this, you're talking about them being at the border already for 24 hours, from what our teams on the ground are telling us. Then those trucks pass through Rafah border. Then they're basically offloaded. And it goes to the Palestinian Red Crescent in terms of how that -- those goods are moved, and then they get checked again at another checkpoint by the IDF. So, logistically, it's really fascinating. It's just not that quick to say, look, we're getting aid into Gaza. There is a whole process.

Fuel has been another big one of those things. I mean, fuel has been going on since the 21st of November. We heard today two fuel trucks went in, but that's the normal quota that has been allocated. The fear is that that might end up in the hands of Hamas. But, international organizations have been taking that fuel and then allocating it, specifically to hospitals. And then to get fresh water going. People have been drinking brackish water and contaminated water. They've been talking about the spread of disease, which already is playing out in real time in Gaza right now.

And to give you another glimpse of just sort of macro picture, because this is important to understand, that the only lifeline that Palestinians have right now to leave Gaza, you've got to be a foreign national, duel passport holder, or you have to have a critical injury to get on a list, which is also a very long process to be evacuated out into Egypt. So, that's sort of the macro picture that's playing out, while we are seeing this truce coming into effect to get hostages out of Gaza and of course to get humanitarian aid in.

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FOSTER: Eleni Giokos in Cairo, thank you.

British Foreign Minister David Cameron is in Israel. A few hours ago, he visited kibbutz Be'eri where Hamas carried out that horrific massacre on October 7. Cameron is visiting the region and is expected to meet with both Israeli and Palestinian leaders. He was accompanied by Israeli Foreign Minister Eli Cohen.

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DAVID CAMERON, BRITISH FOREIGN SECRETARY: Well, can I thank -- thank you, Eli, Minister Cohen for welcoming me here today and for hosting me. I wanted to come here myself to see the horrific nature of the attacks that you suffered on October 7, and they are absolutely horrific. I mean, the terrorism, parents shot in front of their children, children shot in front of their parents. I've heard things and seen things that obviously I will never forget. And it's important that we understand that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Well, still to come, officials say Russia launched dozens of strikes in the Kherson region as the war in Ukraine grinds on. We'll go live to Kyiv when we return. And also ahead, and unexpected election win is being celebrated by far-right leaders, and raising concern across Europe. A Dutch far-right candidate celebrates his victory, when we return.

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FOSTER: It's a surprise victory that's sending shockwaves across the Netherlands in Europe. Dutch far-right populist Geert Wilders and his party are poised to form a coalition government after winning the election by a landslide. Wilders is vocally anti-EU, and is about to halt all immigration and stop providing arms to Ukraine. Wilders had this to say as he celebrated his win.

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GEERT WILDERS, DUTCH FREEDOM PARTY (Translated): We will make sure that the Netherlands will be for the Dutch people again. We will restrict the asylum tsunami in migration. People will have more money in their wallets again.

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FOSTER: Dutch media reporting Wilders of Freedom Party will be the largest in the House of Representatives. He does have to form that coalition there to go on to become Prime Minister.

For more on the implications of this shocking win, let's bring in Tom van der Meer. He is a Professor of Political Science at the University of Amsterdam. Thank you for joining us. But, just first of all, just describe the reaction within the Netherlands to this result, because I know that a lot of the media weren't actually camped out at Wilders headquarters because they weren't expecting him to win.

TOM VAN DER MEER, PROFESSOR OF POLITICAL SCIENCE, UNIVERSITY OF AMSTERDAM: Well, even he himself didn't expect to win because he only decided to organize an election evening celebration just a few days beforehand, and it makes sense, because only this spring, in late March, he polled around five percent of the votes and he got 25 percent right now.

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FOSTER: And in terms of what it means, I mean, people will know his name. But, when we say far right, that's an accurate description, isn't it, when you look on -- look at what he said about immigration, stopping it completely, anti-Muslim, and he wants to leave the EU as well.

MEER: Yes. But, at the center, yes, which clearly makes him a radical right-wing party, but within the confines of liberal democracy. And he needs to go into coalition right now. And you could also see the same speech, not in the parts that you just showed, that he was also trying to be more moderate, that he reached out to other parties. He stated that they need to go to compromise. And it's very important to note here that in the Dutch system, if you get 25 percent of the votes, you also get 25 percent of the seats in Parliament. So, it's highly proportional, and this aspect of going into a coalition formation, that will be incredibly difficult to stand around.

FOSTER: Who would go into coalition with him, or what can he offer the other parties?

MEER: That's the tricky thing. We don't know. So, he is reaching out to a few other parties. There is another new party, the Farmer-Citizen Movement, a more agriculturally-based populist party, another new centrist party by Pieter Omtzigt, also went into Parliament with 20 seats, which is immense in Dutch terms. That could also be a part, according to Wilders, and then there is the liberal conservatives of outgoing Prime Minister Mark Rutte.

But, two of those are not sure whether they are willing to support that coalition government. And moreover, that coalition would not hold a majority in the upper house. It will be far from that. That makes it so incredibly difficult at this moment.

FOSTER: Either way, he is going to have a huge influence going forward on Dutch politics. Isn't he? Because if there is an alternative coalition that comes out of this, he can make their life very difficult. So, he is going to get some of what he believes in through.

MEER: Oh, yes. But, that has been the case for the last 15 years, just his presence and the size of the PVV, has always led to this type of increase. But now, if you look back at what happened last night during these elections, the Freedom Party won a lot, but we also know that they won a lot specifically based on a single issue. A lot of their folders have been tactical folders, or focus on a one issue dimension, namely migration. Migration was made the topic of the campaign by the liberal conservatives of outgoing Prime Minister Rutte. And basically, it was a tactical error by the party, because that theme of migration that's owned by the Freedom Party. So, whenever migration was put as the main topic of the campaign, people would flock to the Freedom Party.

FOSTER: OK. Professor Tom van der Meer, thank you so much for this momentous day for your politics.

Now, to the war in Ukraine, though, where a military official says Russian forces launched dozens of attacks in the Kherson region over the past day, killing one person. This as the Russian President tells G-20 leaders at a virtual summit that it was necessary to think about how to stop the "tragedy in Ukraine", a tragedy he actually created. Vladimir Putin is in Belarus today for a security summit. CNN's Anna Coren joins us live now from Ukraine's capital Kyiv. Hi, Anna.

ANNA COREN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Max. Yes. Putin used the international stage to say that this war raging in its 21st month. We are coming up to a second winter. It's snowing in Kyiv. I can guarantee you it's snowing on the battlefield, that this war is a tragedy, and we must think of a way to stop this tragedy. As you say, he was speaking at the G-20 summit where he reiterated Russia's willingness to enter peace negotiations. He said it was Ukraine that pulled out, that Moscow has never given up. Well, let's have a listen to what President Putin had to say.

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VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (Translated): Some colleagues have already said in their speeches that they are shocked by Russia's ongoing aggression in Ukraine. Yes, of course. Military actions are always a tragedy for specific people, specific families and the country as a whole. And of course, we must think about how to stop this tragedy. Russia has never given up on peace negotiations with Ukraine.

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COREN: Now, for Putin, this was a rare interaction with Western leaders who criticized his invasion. And then, of course, we got an outright rejection by the Ukrainians. The advisor to the president, President Zelenskyy, said that since Putin's full-scale invasion, his intent has always been about the extermination of civilians here in Ukraine.

Let me read you more of what was in that tweet.

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He said "Russia has nothing to think about how to stop the tragedy in Ukraine. Murderers who commit a premeditated crime in cold blood in the middle of it do not know how to stop the crime."

Now, President Zelenskyy has maintained all along he will not enter negotiations until all Russian troops withdraw from Ukrainian territory, and that's including Crimea. Max, he told CNN back in September that it's impossible to compromise with a liar. Now, you mentioned that fighting that is raging on the front line on the eastern front. President Zelenskyy, overnight, identified a number of hotspots, Avdiivka, Bakhmut, Kupiansk, and Marinka. He said they are incredibly difficult battles right now.

And you mentioned Kherson, that one civilian killed, another injured. Now, these deaths are happening every single day due to the Russian bombardment. We've been in touch with Russians with, I beg your pardon, we've been in touch with Ukrainian soldiers on the front line in Kherson, who say that the Russian shelling is just constant, 24 hours a day, and there is not one hour Kherson is. Max.

FOSTER: Anna, thank you.

In Germany, police have raided several homes of Hamas and Samidoun members. Samidoun is a pro-Palestinian organization which is banned in Germany, as is Hamas. Now, the Interior Ministry says they searched 15 homes on Thursday. The (inaudible), these groups have not staged any violent action. They're raising money and trying to influence social and political discourse.

Rescue workers in India appear to be closing in on dozens of workers who are trapped inside a collapsed Himalayan tunnel. An official says they are getting closer to reaching the 41 men who've been stuck underground for 11 days now, as crews drill through the last of the debris. That trapped laborers have been receiving food water and oxygen from a pipe.

Still to come, the agonizing wait continues for families of the Hamas hostages. Qatar says a temporary truce in fighting is imminent. We'll bring you the very latest as it comes in.

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FOSTER: Welcome back. We want to update you on our top story, the Hamas-controlled Health Ministry in Gaza says it's.