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Trump Pushes Election Lies During Iowa Campaign Event; Police: Arrest Made In Manhunt For Homeless Killer; Interview With William Cohen, Former U.S. Defense Secretary, On Israel-Hamas War. House Expels GOP Rep. George Santos Over Ethics Violations. "A.I. And The Future Of Humanity" Airs Tomorrow at 8PM ET/PT. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired December 02, 2023 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:00:30]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington.

While most candidates for the Republican nomination are trading barbs with each other, former president Donald Trump is once again dredging up his lies about the 2020 election just six weeks before the Iowa caucuses.

During an event in the Hawkeye State this afternoon, Trump accused President Biden of, quote, "waging an all-out war on American democracy", and his campaign handed out these signs, you can see it on the screen right there saying, "Joe Biden attacks democracy".

This comes after the former president told supporters at another rally today that he hopes judges will let him prosecute the 2020 election and encouraged them to go into ballot tabulating facilities in 2024 to, quote, "guard the votes.

CNN's Kristen Holmes has been following the Trump campaign today. She's in Cedar Rapids, Iowa for us. Kristen, what's the latest?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jim. Well, essentially this is the most forcible rebuttal we've seen from former president Trump to the argument that President Biden has routinely made, that a second Trump term would be a threat to democracy.

He even vaguely referenced a speech that Biden gave back in September when he talked about MAGA Republicans and Donald Trump being a threat to democracy, American institutions.

Let's take a listen to some of what Trump had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So if Joe Biden wants to make this race a question of which candidate will defend our democracy and protect our freedoms, and I say to Crooked Joe, and he is crooked, the most corrupt president we've ever had, we will win that fight. And we're going to win it very big, very big.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: So Jim, what exactly is he saying is a threat to democracy about Joe Biden? Well, he has touched on a number of things. He said it's about social media, they're trying to restrict their speech. They're trying to control what kind of cars you drive with the reference to electric vehicles.

But most of what he has been focused on, unsurprisingly, is the allegations against him, the multiple indictments that he has faced, and this argument that he has continued to make, Donald Trump, that this is election interference. Essentially saying that Biden is interfering with democracy because of the fact that he has been charged because of these subpoenas, indictments, arrests.

That is the core of why he is saying that Joe Biden is having an assault on democracy.

I also want to read to you one thing he said directly. He said that his campaign is a, quote, "righteous crusade to liberate our Republic". Again, clearly here, a forceful rebuttal to what President Biden has been arguing over and over again, that former President Trump himself is a threat to democracy as well as MAGA Republicans.

We're going to keep listening here, he's obviously still going, he seems to be going a little bit off-track, but we'll have our ears open to hear what else it is that he says, messaging a clear pivot to the general election, as he is leading in most polls here in Iowa, just six weeks ahead of that caucus.

ACOSTA: All right. Yes, Kristen, I mean it sounds like a lot of classic Trump projection there. I mean he was the one who tried to overturn the 2020 election results. It was his supporters who tried to overturn the election results by storming the Capitol, and so on, on January 6th.

And just to ask you a follow-up question, Kristen, you have some new reporting this week, not everybody in the Republican Party is onboard with Trump's renewed focus on Obamacare. I think Trump said earlier this week, something along the lines of, quote, "Obamacare sucks", or something like that but that's not what the polls show. What are you hearing from Republican insiders.

HOLMES: Well Jim, that is exactly what he said. He said that he wanted to come up with an alternative. Well first, he said he wanted to replace Obamacare. Then he said he wanted to come up with an alternative to Obamacare, which a lot of Republicans were alarmed by, given the fact that even when he was in the White House and they had a full control of Republican power in Washington, they were unable to overturn Obamacare.

And another thing to mention here is that Trump repeatedly, while he was in the White House, said he was going to come up with a health care plan that would take over Obamacare, but never did in Election 2020 without ever having actually presented a plan there. But Democrats are seizing on that, that's not surprising because of

the fact that as you mentioned, the Affordable Care Act is more popular now than it has been in the past.

[17:04:50]

HOLMES: So it's (ph) not something Republicans really want to go after again unless there is a clear path.

Now we'll show you, I think we have some of the cut here, but the Biden campaign actually launched an ad in response to this, slamming Trump, saying that he wants to take away health care. This has given them a new sense of ammunition in this potential general election match-up in 2024.

ACOSTA: Yes, (INAUDIBLE) the Biden campaign will welcome that fight on Obamacare.

All right. Kristen Holmes, thanks you very much for reporting from Iowa for us. We know we have many of these events coming up for you, so we appreciate it. Thanks a lot.

Some very tough rulings in the trials of former president Donald Trump this week. A federal judge ruling the former president is not immune from criminal prosecution, just hours after a separate appeals court had a similar ruling on civil liability.

Let's discuss with CNN's Katelyn Polantz and defense attorney and former federal prosecutor Shan Wu.

And Judge Chutkan did not mince words in her ruling, guys. Writing, in part, "Trump's four-year service as commander in chief did not bestow on him the divine right of kings to evade the criminal accountability that governs his fellow citizens.

Katelyn, Judge Chutkan almost seems to relish a little bit, sort of getting up in Trump's grill on some of these issues it seems, if I could use nonlegal parlance.

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: She's a good writer.

ACOSTA: Yes, she is.

POLANTZ: We'll say that. She's a top writer. She's a very sharp judge. And in this case, a lot of these cases turn, they win or they lose, on what happens before the trial. What the judges do on these big legal questions.

Donald Trump was making a very big bid here to get this case tossed, saying that because he had been the president at the time that this had happened, he had some protections. he wanted there to be an immunity because of the Constitution, because of the presidency.

and Judge Chutkan said this just isn't in the Constitution. It's not what the people who wrote the Constitution wanted to allow for presidents.

And that if former presidents didn't have the ability to be prosecuted for things that they did in office, then that would not be part of what the Constitution wants us to have as equal justice under law.

She says it's essential to be able to bring cases like this to have justice work in this country. And so she denied these claims from Donald Trump, these arguments he was making. That this is a really big issue that has to get settled.

And now we have the judge ruling on this and saying, let's go, we're going to move to trial. There are a couple of other things she has to look at and say whether she will, you know, toss certain charges in this case, and some other things he's argued but this was the big one.

ACOSTA: Yes, Shan, it sounds like the Trump defense strategy is to say immunity then, immunity now, immunity forever. I mean he just -- he wants immunity from everything. What's your analysis of what came down from the judge yesterday?

SHAN WU, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think it's a very good analysis, very sound, just like in the civil matter, the Court of Appeals reasoning was very sound, too.

I do think from my legal analyst perspective, it's a little bit of much ado about nothing on the constitutionality issue. No question it's a constitutional law interpretation. But it's so fact-specific to this particular president, I mean yes, it will arise again the next time we have a former president running for re-election who's charged with 91 counts.

So he obviously is trying to wield a lot of times the First Amendment as his defense here. It's all pretty much a red herring though because of course, common sense, non-lawyers would say, of course a former president can't have a permanent get-out-of-jail free card as she wrote. It makes perfect sense not to do that.

But our legal system tries to be so fair that no matter how off the argument is, you have to wind through the system that way. And of course, this will cause more delay, but on a legal grounding, it's very, very solid.

ACOSTA: Yes. And I do want to ask you about that point in just a moment.

Katelyn, we also saw a similar ruling from an appeals court on the issue of these civil lawsuits. It sounds like similar outcome.

POLANTZ: Yes, a lot of people, including Judge Chutkan, were waiting to see what the D.C. Circuit would do on these civil lawsuits. So a bunch of people had filed lawsuits against Donald Trump, trying to hold him accountable for January 6th -- that attack on the Capitol. My count, eight lawsuits, at the very least, were all on hold waiting for this including a lawsuit before Judge Chutkan.

Just on Wednesday, she was saying, we're waiting to see when this is coming. And this decision came out from the D.C. Circuit saying, that there's no ability to have immunity broadly for what Donald Trump was saying and doing while he was president.

There's a difference between presidential speech and campaign speech, even if you are the sitting president running for re-election.

There is going to be an opportunity for Donald Trump in these lawsuits to go and argue the facts, whether or not what he said on January 6th was part of his campaign or whether it was part of his governance.

[17:09:52]

POLANTZ: But that decision is another really big one that Judge Chutkan even cited in her criminal case decision.

We have an appeals court weighing in now on this question of immunity, and those cases, too, are going to be able to go forward, at least a little bit for now.

ACOSTA: Yes. And Shan, I mean do you think we're going to see this issue of presidential immunity end up at the Supreme Court? And to that end, it goes back to the point you were saying earlier, if they keep throwing these things out in front of these judges, various challenges on all sorts of different grounds, I mean, one would think, at some point, they're going to be successful in delaying some of these trials. And maybe the federal election interference trial that has been scheduled for March may not happen in March if they're successful. What do you think?

WU: I think there is a pretty good chance that they'll be successful in delaying at least some of these trials past the election.

The one in Florida, about the classified documents issue, it's complicated, just on the logistics, because there's classified material.

In D.C., no question Jack Smith tried to really streamline this, to maximize the chances of doing it fast. Chutkan is moving very fast. I think the Supreme Court probably will take the case, just because it screams constitutional issue even though I kind of wish they wouldn't take it.

ACOSTA: Yes.

POLANTZ: And the immunity question in the criminal case in D.C. with Judge Chutkan January 6th, that has to be settled before Trump goes to trial. It has to be as a right for a criminal defendant.

WU: Yes, they could decline to take it after the Court of Appeals, but I don't think they will.

ACOSTA: Do you think the Supreme Court could come down on the side of Trump in saying, yes, you have immunity in that case?

WU: I think it's legally it's very unlikely. They haven't shown themselves to be particular fans of his arguments and this one really seems like a no brainer that (INAUDIBLE).

ACOSTA: All right, very good. All right. Katelyn, Shan -- thanks a lot guys. Really appreciate it. Thank you.

Coming up, we're following some breaking news. A news conference in Los Angeles is underway right now. We're going to show it to you -- there it is -- about a possible serial killer targeting the homeless. We'll break that down for you in just a few moments.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

[17:11:54]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ACOSTA: Breaking news.

Police in Los Angeles have just made a major announcement in the manhunt for a possible serial killer who allegedly murdered a number of homeless people in recent days.

CNN's Camila Bernal joins me now from L.A. Camila, what are we learning?

CAMILA BERNAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Jim.

So now we know that a man has been arrested, not just for three killings, but authorities now saying they believe this man is responsible for four different killings. Killing three people that were unhoused here in Los Angeles, and then also following someone home, robbing them, and killing them, as well.

And so police now saying this is a man that they hope to prosecute after this arrest, that is the current focus.

I want you to listen to what the police chief just said as this press conference is ongoing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF MICHEL MOORE, LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT: This afternoon, it is with tremendous pride that I announce that their collective work, in concert with the work of Los Angeles Sheriff's Department, Beverly Hills Police Department, has resulted in the identification and the arrest of the individual we believe is responsible for these vicious crimes.

Tragically, that same individual is also believed responsible for the murder that occurred during a follow-home robbery in San Dimas, making this suspect responsible, we believe, based on our investigation, for the murder of four individuals over the course of four days.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERNAL: And this is a Los Angeles resident, 33 years old. Authorities announcing that arrest just moments ago. And saying that this has been the work of the task force, of everybody coming together, trying to identify this person.

They were also able to identify a vehicle, and that's really what led them to that arrest. They say that vehicle was spotted in the different areas where they believe the unhoused people were murdered.

They say that during this past week, what this man essentially did was walk up to homeless individuals, shot them, and left. These were people who were sleeping on the streets, who were alone, and who were in open areas, whether that was a sidewalk or an alley, and that's how authorities began sort of connecting the dots, by seeing these killings.

They say the first one happened on Sunday at around 3:00 in the morning. The second happening on Monday just after 5:00 in the morning, and then on Wednesday at 2:30 p.m.

They had said that the victims were two Hispanic men and one black man. Now, we do not know the identity of that fourth person that authorities now say was killed, as well. We're obviously getting all of that information right now as that press conference is ongoing.

But this, of course, had shaken Los Angeles over the last 24 hours, because this is a city that houses so many unhoused individuals. And so, authorities just asking people to be careful, to contact family members that they knew lived on the streets, to really try to warn them and to make sure that they had a safe place to sleep at night, because so many people were worried about what could happen over the next couple of days.

Now, authorities saying they have the person they believe is responsible and will now focus on that prosecution and what comes next. They still say they do not have a motive. They do know that he was targeting unhoused individuals. But in terms of why he was doing it, they say that's obviously part of that ongoing investigation, and eventual prosecution, Jim.

ACOSTA: All right. Very disturbing case. Camila Bernal, thank you very much for that report. We appreciate it.

Israel says it has hit more than 400 targets in the 24 hours since the truce ended. Can they forge another agreement to stop the fighting?

A live report from Tel Aviv is next.

[17:19:49]

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ACOSTA: Now to the latest in the Middle East. Intense fighting has picked back up in Gaza after a nearly week-long truce ended between Israel and Hamas. The Israeli military says it carried out more than 400 strikes in Gaza over the first 24 hours since that truce expired yesterday.

Meanwhile Israel has recalled its team of negotiators from Qatar, saying talks are at a dead end over the remaining 136 hostages held in Gaza.

CNN's Matthew Chance is live in Tel Aviv with more on all of this. Matthew, any sense as to how Israelis are reacting to this collapse in hostage negotiations?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think Israelis are divided about it. Obviously there's disappointment that there haven't been more handovers of hostages, that truce, that pause in the fighting to allow for those hostage releases.

[17:24:48]

CHANCE: It's been very successful for seven consecutive days. And you know, and then it basically fell apart. And for the past two days, there's been a return to the kind of intensive violence that we saw in the period before the truce was declared.

And so, there's been a lot of impact on Palestinians on the ground. There have been up to 400, according to the Israeli military, strikes on separate targets inside the Gaza strip.

And, of course, the impact that has on the hostages is something that many Israelis are profoundly concerned about. There was a vigil earlier today in the center of Tel Aviv here, where thousands of people turned out to show their support for the 130 or so hostages that are still inside the Gaza Strip.

Some of them chanting, you know, kind of messages, such as, everyone out now, everyone now, everyone now. That's what everyone was chanting. And a lot of criticism that we heard from people inside that crowd of thousands of people that the government is not doing enough to prioritize the release of those hostages. That's what they want.

Of course, the country is divided on that. They're united in the sense that everybody wants the hostages released. But they're divided in how the best way to do that is.

There are some in the government is amongst this group that believes that the current run of hostage releases has run its course and that now is the time to apply as much military pressure as possible to Hamas in order to force them back to the negotiating table and to get more hostages set free.

But you know, regardless, it's a very political, emotional issue in this country right now, as you can imagine, Jim.

ACOSTA: Absolutely. And any sense as to how these hostage talks might get restarted? Is it just a matter of time, at this point, Matthew? What do you think?

CHANCE: Well, I think ultimately it is, and I think ultimately, there will have to be a further negotiation for more hostages to be let out. I mean, that's what the Israeli government says that they're doing.

They're saying they've restarted this military campaign. With the express purpose of putting as much military pressure as possible on Hamas, because they say that's the best chance that the hostages inside the Gaza Strip have of being set free.

And so, you know, at some point, there's going to have to be a meeting again of the various mediators on the various sides to try and hammer out some kind of deal.

The sticking point, as far as the Israeli sources that I've been speaking to are concerned, is the ratio, or one of the sticking points -- the ratios of Palestinian prisoners released for every hostage. It's 3 to 1 at the moment. So, ten hostages released, 30 Palestinians released from Israeli jails.

When it comes to the men, many of them, who are serving in the Israeli military who are held hostage, Hamas are going to want a much higher ratio. They're going to want more prisoners released than they get for the women and children.

And so, that is just one of the obstacles facing the mediators in this current period.

ACOSTA: All right. Matthew Chance, thanks for that reporting, as always. We appreciate it.

Nearly two months after Hamas' brutal assault on Israel, new details are emerging on the massive failure of Israeli intelligence. Security experts have wondered how Israel, with such a strong reputation for its intelligence community, could have missed a massive terrorist attack that killed some 1,200 people.

This week, "The New York Times" reported that Israeli officials knew of Hamas' plan more than a year before the attack, according to "The New York Times". Israeli authorities obtained a blueprint laying out the attack in detail but dismissed the plans as aspirational and too difficult for Hamas to carry out.

Joining me now to talk about this is former defense secretary William Cohen. Secretary Cohen, great to see you, as always.

What is your sense of all of this? the Israeli government and intelligence community, you know this all too well, very strong reputation globally for the intelligence apparatus in Israel. How did they miss this? How did they get it wrong?

WILLIAM COHEN, FORMER U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: I think it's a combination of arrogance and ignorance. Arrogance in the sense that they had very little regard for Hamas, thinking that it was all aspirational, they didn't have any particularly talent or capability.

And so, it was sort of "we can handle it under any circumstances, they're not really a threat".

The ignorance comes about in terms of, they didn't have sufficient evidence for them, at least, except for one woman in the -- a woman analyst who said, this is something, it's very close to what we know they've been planning. And yet she was disregarded.

So they just assumed that they were superior, that Hamas were inferior, incapable, and you had one woman who had the intelligence, she had it, others had it, but she believed that her assessment was the accurate one, and she was dismissed.

[17:29:48]

COHEN: As Golda Meir said a woman has to prove herself much more capable than a man in order to be called successful.

ACOSTA: And I -- and this is another key question in all of this. When it comes to accountability, Israeli officials have been saying they will investigate these intelligence failures when the war is over.

Isn't that a bit of a copout, considering how long that could potentially take? The Israelis said they're going to continue on with this for months. They haven't set a timetable for when this might be over. It's going to be over, they say, when Hamas is wiped out.

What if this goes on for a long time? What is your sense of that, when you hear that?

COHEN: Well, the difficulty is that the Israeli people are divided. They want the hostages back, they're not happy with Netanyahu, but they have a governing consensus right now between Netanyahu and others in his -- in his group.

If that were to split, then the Israelis are looking at a divided government, they don't want that, they want a way forward, so, I think Bibi Netanyahu is counting on the Israeli people to stand behind him for the time.

But the handwriting is very clear on the wall. A failure of this magnitude, I don't think any leader could possibly stay in power beyond the time, if this is ever settled, if there's ever an end to this war, I don't think any leader who presided over the failure of intelligence can survive.

But Bibi Netanyahu has been there for some 16 years. Anything is possible. He's just holding out, hoping that he'll remain after the war, if there is an end to it.

ACOSTA: Right.

And I did want to move to the next stage of what the Israelis hope to do in Gaza. As you know, the Biden administration has been stepping up some pressure on Israel to minimize civilian casualties in Gaza.

I know you've probably seen some of these reports that leaflets are being dropped. They're trying to send out text messages and other messages to smartphones so people in harm's way can get out of harm's way.

Does all of that sound realistic to you? After all, Palestinians were forced to move out of the northern part of Gaza to get out of harm's way, down to the southern part of Gaza.

And now, the Israelis' plan is to go into the southern part of Gaza to some extent. What is -- what do you make of all that?

COHEN: Well, I cited Golda before, the Israelis have a secret weapon, they have no place to go. Well, Gaza has no place to go. And Israel will keep pulverizing what they believe to be military targets.

And Hamas has wrapped themselves inside the innocent civilians, saying, you can kill as many as you want, we're winning the public relations war.

And I thought Tom Friedman had a very interesting piece over the weekend where he said Israel should make a proposal to Hamas, saying, we'll have a ceasefire, and you just turn over all of the hostages you have.

And put the burden on Hamas to say, no, you keep killing us, you keep killing all of our innocent civilians. And so, you shift the burden to Hamas, rather than on Israel now, which is bearing the burden of public relations, seeing them no longer as a victim, but more of a villain.

So, I think Tom's proposal interesting. I think it has some merit. And looking, what is success?

If Israel is to succeed in dismantling Hamas, who takes over Gaza at that point? Is it going to be the Israelis? Is it going to be an international group? Is it going to include any of the Arab nations? All of those questions need to be asked now, rather than later.

So, I think listening to Tom Friedman, I think he had an interesting proposal to shift the burden, at least, to Hamas, where all the killing is taking place, because they could solve the problem right now, just by releasing the hostages they have.

ACOSTA: Absolutely. And at this point, that does not appear to be anywhere in sight.

Secretary Cohen, as always, really appreciate the insights. Great questions you raise this evening. Thank you again so much for your time. Appreciate it.

COHEN: Appreciate it.

ACOSTA: All right, good to talk to you, sir.

In the meantime, George Santos, he has been expelled from Congress, and now there is a rush to fill his open seat. His former opponent joins us live, next. We'll talk to him in just a few moments.

You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

[17:34:18]

There he is.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ACOSTA: Voters will soon get the chance to decide who will replace former Congressman George Santos.

Santos was expelled from the House on Friday, in an historic vote, after an Ethics Committee report found evidence that he broke federal laws and stole from his campaign.

Santos is also facing nearly two dozen federal charges related to identity theft, wire and credit card fraud.

The locks to his office are not the only thing changing. The Republicans' razor-thin majority in the House is now even slimmer.

New York Governor Kathy Hochul now has to declare a special election to replace Santos, which should be right around the corner.

Joining us to discuss is Robert Zimmerman. He's the Democratic candidate who lost to George Santos in last year's elections.

I'm sorry to say that, Bob. I know every time it comes up --

(CROSSTALK)

ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, (D), FORMER CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: Great reception, Jim.

ACOSTA: Probably stings a little bit every time it's said.

But what's your sense? Are you going to --

ZIMMERMAN: Good to be with you.

ACOSTA: Good to be with you.

Are you going to take another crack at this?

ZIMMERMAN: I told the political leadership, because -- in New York State, when we have a special election, it's the political leaders who choose the nominee.

And for the Democrats, it will be, of course, Jake Jacobs (ph), the Nassau County chairman, Greg Meeks, Congressman Greg Meeks, the Queens chairman.

Of course, they'll be consulting with Governor Hochul and with congressional leader, Hakeem Jeffries, Democratic Leader Jeffries.

I'm here to support whatever their agenda is. This is so much more than me, Jim. It's about winning back this seal. It's about building a Democratic majority to save our democracy.

[17:40:02]

It's critical for Queens and Nassau County. And so I made it clear that I'm there to help them in whatever way they think is appropriate.

ACOSTA: And what is your reaction to Santos being expelled? And I have to ask, maybe you've been asked this before, but were there any rumblings at the time that there was all this wacky stuff in his background that -- one would think, if you knew all that, you would have used that against him at that time.

(CROSSTALK)

ZIMMERMAN: We certainly tried.

ACOSTA: OK.

ZIMMERMAN: We certainly did. I mean, frankly, there's an enormous sense of relief to see him out of Congress.

Not a moment of celebration, because he should have been removed much earlier. And too many Republicans were basically accomplices to his crimes by protecting him and keeping him in Congress.

Let me point out to you, when I ran, George Santos had been running for Congress for four years. During those four years, the local Republicans never did opposition research or investigated him, though they nominated him.

The person who ran before me against him, never did opposition research into him, either, but won that race.

And when I ran, the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee prepared an 87-page book and they nailed a lot of issues. They missed a lot of issues, too.

And I've got through a lot of pints of Haagen-Dazs discussing that. But we took what we could prove and we focused on it in our campaign.

Many of the issues -- many of the red flags we turned to the media on. And as many of your CNN contributors have pointed out, who work in the media, the press focuses on the marquee races.

And oftentimes, because of a lack of resources, they don't have the ability to do the investigative work that's needed. That's a real problem.

But we did have local media on Long Island, like North Shore Leader --

(CROSSTALK)

ACOSTA: Right.

ZIMMERMAN: -- Slate Media, to try to sound the alarm.

ACOSTA: Right. And they were on top of this. They were the ones that broke a lot of this.

Let me ask you this. Some Republican lawmakers say the reason they voted against expelling Santos is because he had not been convicted of a crime as of yet. What do you make of those claims?

ZIMMERMAN: Let me tell you, it's so offensive and such an immoral disgrace. The Ethics Committee, bipartisan Ethics Committee, a non- partisan staff, had access to all sorts of secret information that campaigns don't have, the media doesn't have, as does the Department of Justice.

They proved that he committed an identity theft, he stole money, he stole credit cards. They documented not just the lies, but the crimes he committed.

And the idea that Republicans would use that as an excuse to say that, because he wasn't found guilty in a court of law -- being a convicted felon should not be the standard to being dismissed from Congress.

When the Ethics Committee pointed out crimes committed, that should concern everyone and mobilize everyone.

I heard one Republican lawmaker say, well, all of us have sins. This is not about sin. This is about criminal behavior. And it took a year, but it happened.

ACOSTA: And what are the prospects -- you know this district well. What are the prospects for Democrats flipping this seat back to the Democratic column? As you know, the Republican majority in the House is so razor thin at this point.

(CROSSTALK)

ACOSTA: And what does it say about some of these other -- because one of the linchpins of the House Republicans taking over the House the last time around were these other New York seats.

The seats that may be more favorable to Joe Biden, may have been more favorable in Joe Biden in 2020 and might be favorable to him in 2024.

How critical are those seats that are currently held by New York Republicans, and Democrats getting the House back? And what are the prospects for getting your district back?

ZIMMERMAN: You know, Jim, the path to the majority runs through New York. And it's always a mistake in political analysis to look at a presidential election where the turnout has a maximum high level for Democrats and Republicans and compare that to a gubernatorial year.

For example, during a presidential year, it turns out to be 75 percent amongst Democrats. In a gubernatorial year, when I ran, the turnout was 51 percent amongst Democrats and 64 percent amongst Republicans.

So, the point I'm making is, when you analyze what we're facing in our Third District, this special election, you have to understand, it's going to be a very close race, a very tough race.

This is not the old Third Congressional District that Steve Israel and Tom Swazzy (ph) represented. Due to redistricting, it's significantly more Republican.

In fact, we had a Republican landslide in our state, that lost us five districts. In my district, the entire Democratic ticket lost to the Republicans. I proudly ran ahead by five points of most of them. But even Chuck

Schumer, the most popular public official in New York State, lost our congressional district. That's how Republican the districts have become.

We Democrats have to work very hard at reaching swing voters and bringing out our Democratic voters. And, quite frankly, we have the issues to run on to get that done. I feel like we're going to win, but it's going to be a tough fight.

ACOSTA: I hate to make you go back to another tub of Haagen-Dazs, but let me ask you to listen to how some of the voters in your district feel about George Santos and get your response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[17:45:05]

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't like him. Because he's a crook, because he's a liar. Because I just don't like him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think the people on Long Island made a mistake. At the beginning.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Yes, what's it going to take to restore faith for voters who feel burned by this? They're going to think, oh, every politician who comes along is just another George Santos.

ZIMMERMAN: Trust me, I feel burned, too. I feel their pain, in a very real personal way.

It's more than just my congressional district. It's my home. I've lived here since I was 9 years old. Built my business here, went to school here.

And frankly, the worst part of Santos' crimes is how he destroyed people's confidence in our democratic system. And frankly, for a year, we've not had representation.

I get more calls from people, constituents in the district looking for help for passport assistance, senior care, veterans aid because his office doesn't function.

So frankly, it's going to take, frankly, both parties. And I think Democrats will do it the best.

Making it clear that we're here for them. We're meeting the voters where they are. We're speaking to their issues, addressing affordability, addressing protecting or democracy, speaking up for public safety, gun safety.

We have to be able to do that in our campaign. I'm sure we will. I believe we will. I believe we can restore confidence for people in your district. But trust me, it is a real -- our district was betrayed by George Santos. And I don't care what he does with his life, if he's on "Dancing with the Stars" or maybe runs as Donald Trump's running mate. He may not be qualified to be Donald Trump's running mate.

We have to get back to representing our district and now we can turn the page and do that.

ACOSTA: All right, Robert Zimmerman, thank you very much for your time. We appreciate it.

ZIMMERMAN: Always good to be with you, Jim.

ACOSTA: Good to talk to you. Thank you so much.

In the meantime, we are introducing you to this year's top-10 "CNN Heroes." You can vote for your favorite hero. We're only about a week away from announcing the 2023 CNN Hero of the Year.

Meet Alvin Irby and his barbershop books.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALVIN IRBY, CNN HERO: What's up, man? How are you doing?

We installed a child-friendly reading space in the barbershop. We literally ask little black boys, what do you like to read? And then those are the books that we distribute to our national network of barbers.

Use the opportunity, when they're sitting in the chair to just talk to them about books.

Many black boys are raised by single mothers. So, there's this opportunity to support barbers in becoming --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How is the book going so far?

IRBY: -- black male reading role models.

I'm just excited that we get to create a safe space for boys to do something that is really life-changing. That's what I really believe reading is. It unlocks potential.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Go to CNN heroes.com right now to vote for Alvin as CNN's Hero of the Year or any of your favorite top-10 heroes. Voting ends on December 5th.

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[17:52:44]

ACOSTA: Will artificial intelligence save the human race or will it kill us all? Tomorrow night, on "THE WHOLE STORY," CNN's Nick Watt tries to answer that question. He spoke to a computer scientist whose institute produced much of the tech behind ChatGPT.

Here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: There are going to be machines that are way smarter than you.

YOSHUA BENGIO, SCIENTIFIC DIRECTOR, MONTREAL INSTITUTE FOR LEARNING ALGORITHMS: If we choose -- (INAUDIBLE).

WATT: So, what is the biggest fear? Is humans using this technology or humans losing control of this technology?

BENGIO: They are both valid fears. For the foreseeable future, it's going to be humans doing bad things with powerful technology like they have done in the past. But now they're more powerful.

It's also conceivable that, at some point, we could lose control. And that's potentially the worst.

WATT: If you are scared, why don't you just shut up shop and go become a farmer. Your research could be contributing to the end of all of us.

BENGIO: I'm asking myself that question every morning.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: And CNN's Nick Watt joins us now.

Nick, he's asking that question every morning. So what's the answer? I mean, is this about human building to machines and then the machines kill the humans? Is that essentially it?

WATT: I mean, listen, that is the far-off fear. I mean, he says he's carrying on with this research because, frankly, the cat's out of the bag. And also, the benefits to mankind, to humankind could be so great.

He said there's a possibility, in 20 years, we could cure every disease known to man. We could also find a source of endless cheap, clean fuel that could save us from a fossil fuel fate.

But the risks -- and we dive into them deeply -- you know, the military risks. Will there be a robot that will select the target, a human target and kill that target without a human making a decision? The tech is already there. Will we do it just because we can?

Well, I mean, I chatted to a Dutch military commander and he told me stuff that made my hair stand on end. I had to make sure I was hearing him right and I had to make sure there wasn't a language barrier. My hearing is fine. The Dutch speak very good English and it freaks me out.

[17:55:00] ACOSTA: Yes, it freaks me out, too. I watch all of those "Terminator" movies and I just can't believe -- I mean, it feels funny that we are even having this conversation.

But there are real implications here that need to be talked about, no doubt about it.

WATT: Yes.

ACOSTA: Why did you decide to tackle this subject, Nick?

WATT: I mean, I am not a tech reporter, which actually I think is a benefit here. Because this is not a tech story. This is a story about humankind. This is philosophy, economics, history, geography, sociology, this is everything.

This tech is already in our lives, all over our lives, whether we like it or not. That is only going to increase.

And we all have to face up to this. I mean, listen, you can't just bury your head in the sand and say, oh, A.I., whatever. We have to understand it.

So, for me, this is one of the greatest privileges I've had as a reporter getting access to these people to figure out what is coming down the pipe, what is going to hit me and everything -- Jim?

ACOSTA: It sounds like an amazing assignment. Nick, I know you will crush it.

Nick, thank you very much. We will be watching. Appreciate it very much.

Be sure to tune in. An all-new episode of the "WHOLE NEW STORY" with Anderson Cooper. One whole story, one whole hour. Nick Watt tackling A.I. and the future of humanity. Nick will do it justice. That's tomorrow at 8:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific only on CNN.

And we are back in a moment.

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