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Republican Presidentiables Faced Off in the 4th Debate without Donald Trump; Three Dead and One Wounded in a University of Nevada Mass Shooting Incident; IDF on the Lookout for Hamas Leader in Gaza; Nevada Grand Jury Indicted Six Republican Fake Electors who Overturned Joe Biden's 2020 Election result; Sitcom Producer and Creator Norman Lear Dies. Aired 3-4a ET

Aired December 07, 2023 - 03:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[03:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BIANCA NOBILO, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us in the United States and all around the world. I'm Bianca Nobilo in London, ahead on "CNN Newsroom."

The gloves were off at the fourth Republican presidential debate last night. We'll look at who swung at who and the man who of course was missing from the stage.

Plus a shooting on the Las Vegas campus of the University of Nevada leaves three dead and a fourth wounded. I'll speak to a gun violence survivor about the latest mass shooting in the United States.

And Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says Israeli forces are encircling the house of the top leader of Hamas in Gaza. We will have a live report with the very latest.

We're following two major stories this hour, including a high-stakes showdown in Alabama where four U.S. Republican presidential hopefuls met on stage for a fourth debate, less than six weeks before the first nominating contest in Iowa. These rivals clashed over issues ranging from electability to the border, and whether Donald Trump is fit to return to the White House. The former president again chose to skip the debate.

And we're also following the deadly mass shooting on the campus of the University of Nevada, Las Vegas, that killed at least three people. We're told the gunman, who was dead, was a career college professor. It's not clear what connection he had to the school.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERIFF KEVIN MCMAHILL, LAS VEGAS METROPOLITAN POLICE: I can tell you today, three of the victims are confirmed deceased. There is a fourth victim who suffered a gunshot wound and is now currently in Sunrise Hospital upgraded to stable condition. In addition to that, there were four additional people who were transported from the scene to nearby hospitals suffering from panic attacks. Two of our officers were treated at UMC for minor injuries which were received while searching the vast rooms and buildings for victims at UNLV.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBILO: We'll have more on the shooting in just a moment's time.

But first, let's return to the story of the Republican debate. Each of the candidates are trying to set themselves apart as the main rival to Donald Trump, whose absence loomed large over the event.

CNN's Jeff Zeleny reports from Tuscaloosa, Alabama.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF U.S. NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Former South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley at the center of a political firestorm at the fourth Republican presidential debate Wednesday night at the University of Alabama, particularly with Florida Governor Ron DeSantis. They've been locked in a close race to be the leading alternative to Donald Trump.

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Her donors, these Wall Street liberal donors, they make money in China. They are not gonna let her be tough on China and she will cave to the donor. She will not stand up for you.

NIKKI HALEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: These man, because those Wall Street donors used to support him and now they support me.

ZELENY: DeSantis and Haley ferociously tangled throughout the night over her newfound support from some corporate donors, over their respective views on China, their foreign policy views, and much more.

But perhaps the biggest fireworks of the night came from former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie and Ohio entrepreneur Vivek Ramaswamy when they exchanged a fierce battle over this.

CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is the fourth debate, the fourth debate that you would be voted in the first 20 minutes as the most obnoxious blowhard in America. So shut up for your life.

VIVEK RAMASWAMY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Chris, your version of foreign policy experience was closing a bridge from New Jersey to New York. So do everybody a favor, just walk yourself off that stage, enjoy a nice meal, and get the hell out of this race.

ZELENY: In just 40 days, Iowa Republicans will be the first to cast their ballots in the 2024 Republican presidential nominating contest at the Iowa caucuses, followed a week later by the New Hampshire primary. Time is running out for these Republicans to make their case against the frontrunner in the race, Donald Trump. who once again skipped this debate, but is driving the race in every way. Now, he was at the center of the conversation, and former New Jersey

Governor Chris Christie directly confronted him, saying he's not fit for office.

CHRISTIE: Do I think he was kidding when he said he was a dictator? All you have to do is look at the history.

[03:05:01]

And that's why failing to speak out against him, making excuses for him, pretending that somehow he's a victim. empowers him. You want to know why those poll numbers are where they are? Because folks like these three guys on the stage make it seem like his conduct is acceptable. Let me make it clear, his conduct is unacceptable. He's unfit.

ZELENY: But throughout the course of the year, a similar argument from Christie has gone unanswered by Republican voters. The former president is still leading the way in Iowa, New Hampshire, and indeed nationally. But voters, of course, have not cast a single ballot. So he is hoping that they will listen to his argument.

Now the question is, in this race for second, did Haley or DeSantis make any movements? The Iowa Republican voters we spoke to after the debate gave both of them high marks in different ways. Haley, they said, was presidential. DeSantis got his conservative record through, of course, evangelical voters so important in Iowa.

So at the end of the day, perhaps the biggest winner, once again, was not on-stage Donald Trump. But there is no doubt it was the smallest stage yet, but perhaps the most consequential biggest debate of all. Again, the votes start in less than six weeks.

Jeff Zeleny, CNN, Tuscaloosa, Alabama.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NOBILO: Joining me now from Harrisburg, Pennsylvania is Thomas Gift, director of the Center on U.S. Politics at University College London. And Thomas, it's always really great to have the chance to chat to you. And it usually means that there's been some big presidential debate or political development. So let's talk about last night.

I was saying to my producer before the show, it's quite amazing that these people, these candidates, you know, they go to Ivy League universities, have a successful professional career, and then this descends to essentially kindergarten jabs at each other on a stage competing for the highest office in the land. It seems like Trump did the right thing by staying out of it.

THOMAS GIFT, DIRECTOR, CENTER ON U.S. POLITICS, UNIVERSITY COLLEGE LONDON: Well, thanks so much for having me, Bianca. It's really great to talk with you. I think last night was certainly more combative, and you're right. It was really a slugfest. I mean, I think that's partially because the field had narrowed and there was an actual back and forth between the candidates.

It also seemed like there was just more of a sense of urgency. Haley and DeSantis, they're both vying to be the, not just a Trump alternative heading into Iowa. And so it got negative.

I think it really felt like a tag team effort to me where you had DeSantis and Ramaswamy throwing grenades at Haley, Haley trying desperately to defend herself and relying considerably on Chris Christie. Not sure if that equation works to Haley's advantage, given that Christie is also going so hard at Donald Trump, but ultimately I don't think there was a clear winner.

And the feeling I got most from watching was that it was just too little, too late for all the candidates not named Trump. And you're right. Absolutely. Trump is following exactly the right strategy by just staying out of this fray.

NOBILO: As you say, if there was no clear winner, What did last night tell you about the potential for this field to consolidate? Because of course that would be necessary if anybody even wants to have a hypothetical chance of taking on the former president.

GIFT: Exactly. I mean, I think you can just bracket a Trump win in Iowa. And then there really become three questions. One, who clinches second place? Two, by how much? And then three, is it enough to force out some of the more marginal candidates?

You know, we've talked about this before, but the GOP is really in a place where there's a clear openness for non-Trump candidate more than half of Republicans say that they'd be open to voting for someone not named Trump, but for that to happen there needs to be consolidation. And that's not going to occur if DeSantis and Haley are running neck- and-neck in Iowa in the mid teens.

And then you have Chris Christie and Ramaswamy splitting another five to eight percent of the vote now, I think that there are a lot of parallels to 2016 where you had Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz and Jeff Bush and John Kasich, they're all plausibly making the case that they could be the Trump alternative.

But all that they did was split the establishment vote and Trump went on to win. So the math isn't inseparable, but the incentives might be, especially in the context of these state level electoral formulas. I think the basic equilibrium is everyone's doing what's right for themselves in their own self-interest, but that undermines this collective goal of defeating Donald Trump. So, that's why I still continue to think that this is really just a coronation, not a primary.

NOBILO: And Thomas, when you were watching the debate, did anything stand out to you in particular? Obviously, from what you're saying, it sounds like nothing is moving the dial significantly, but perhaps a personal moment from one of the candidates or a policy suggestion or debate?

GIFT: Well, you know, really what struck me, I think, was how Nikki Haley conducted herself, because she's really the growth stock right now. She has all the momentum. She's done well in the debates up until this point. You know, she won the endorsement of Americans for Prosperity. That's the coat back network that has big outreach capacity, and she's got the electability on her side. So I don't think it's surprising that she was kind of taking most of the heat.

[03:10:07]

I'm not sure, though, how effectively she was able to defend herself. It did seem to me like she was relying quite a bit on Chris Christie, and that's not necessarily the alignment that she wants. And so I do think that DeSantis and Ramaswamy both were able to get some digs in at her. You know, how that plays in the poll, I'm still not sure if there's going to be a big effect, but she's gotta be expecting, I think, considerable blowback given that now she's sort of the presumptive candidate, I would say, to be second place.

NOBILO: Chris Christie jumped in to defend Nikki Haley against Vivek Ramaswamy's suggestion that she didn't know where provinces of Ukraine were on a map and that his three-year-old was smarter than her, to paraphrase. How do you think voters, potential floating voters and viewers of this, receive the slugfest of a debate and candidates going at each other? Does it have a nutritious effect? What do you think it does in terms of all of their standings? Is it even a good idea to be participating in these?

GIFT: Right. Yeah, I mean, I think that this debate certainly had some low moments and probably Ramaswamy going after Nikki Haley in that kind of way doesn't reflect well on him and it also doesn't reflect well on the Republican Party.

But, you know, at this point, I'm just not sure how much of that is really moving the needle. And if there's anyone who goes more negative and is more pejorative than anyone, it's the person not on the stage and the man who's up by 30 percentage points. So that certainly doesn't seem to be dispositive of a candidate not doing well in the polls.

But it's kind of disappointing whenever you see politics devolve into this. You tune in because you wanna hear about policy, you wanna hear about issues. Now you get his kind of personal insults at hominem attacks and so on. I mean, that's American politics right now. It's regrettable, but that's the reality.

NOBILO: Thomas Gift, thank you very much for joining us this morning.

GIFT: Thanks, Bianca.

NOBILO: The University of Nevada in Las Vegas will be closed for the rest of the week after three people were killed in a shooting. The suspected shooter is dead, but police have yet to release his name. A law enforcement source tells CNN that the suspect was a 67-year-old college professor linked to schools in Georgia and North Carolina. It's still unknown at this stage how he was connected to the University of Nevada. Here's what police had to say at the crime scene. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ADAM GARCIA, VICE PRESIDENT FOR PUBLIC SAFETY SERVICES, UNLV: We received a call of an active shooter event at 11:45 this morning. Officers immediately responded, engaged the suspect. The suspect at this point is deceased.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBILO: The shooting happened just a week before final exams for the semester. The university posted an emergency notice online telling students to evacuate to a safe area and quote "run, hide, fight." Students say they could hear the gunfire from their classrooms.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: We could hear the gunshots. Somewhere we were. That 200 kids in one space, (inaudible). We're just lied around here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBILO: According to a CNN analysis, this is the 80th school shooting in the U.S. this year.

Joining me now is Christian Heyne, a gun violence survivor and chief programs and policy officer at Brady, a non-profit organization advocating against gun violence.

Christian, thank you so much for joining us. I'm so sorry about the circumstances, but it's just such a tragic and constant refrain in the United States at the moment. Clearly this story is still developing while learning information. Did anything strike you about it? Does it seem to fit the standard pattern for these types of events?

CHRISTIAN HEYNE, CHIEF PROGRAMS AND POLICY OFFICER, BRADY: Yeah, well, thank you so much for having me, Bianca. And, you know, unfortunately, what strikes me is the same thing that we think about every time one of these horrific shootings happen, which is how can it be that time and time again we're here, we're having this conversation.

We have a campus now over at UNLV of students that have grown up in what they have identified as this lockdown generation. And we are the only industrialized country in the free world that accepts gun violence, accepts this as our normal, accepts this as our reality.

[03:14:56]

And there's an entire generation of individuals who are growing up defined by American gun violence. So what strikes me about the pattern is just that we have this pattern, that we have this cycle that we are having this conversation over and over and over again, when we know that there are really common sense solutions that can prevent it from happening from in the first place. And so I'm very thankful to be here talking about this because we know that there's stuff we can do. But I'm just horrified that we're here again. NOBILO: Yes, well, you and me both, and it must be so frustrating for

you and deeply baffling for many international viewers. I spend most of my time in the United Kingdom. I'm from New Zealand, both of these countries, when there were huge gun attacks, there were immediate policy changes. Obviously in the United States, because there have been so many shootings, it feels horrifically normalized.

So what needs to happen to actually get this to be a policy conversation and shift anything? I mean, you must think about this all the time, but it seems like no matter what the violence is, no matter how many victims there are, this is not shifting.

HEYNE: Yeah, I mean, I will say that what we have experienced, especially since the horrific mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary, has been a sea change. We have seen the American people in every reach of this country, regardless of where they live, stand up and demand change. And even most recently in Congress this last year, we saw the first bipartisan bill in the last 30 years move forward.

Now, it's incremental. And what you are talking about in these other countries is the kind of response that we really need here. Something that is meaningful, that is robust. And we've seen the framework laid out in countries that have responded in kind when they've experienced just one tragedy like the one that we saw today in Nevada, which by the way is only miles away from the deadliest mass shooting that ever occurred in this country where 60 people were killed and 400 others were shot and wounded in this horrific shooting in one October at the Route 91 festival.

So it's a good question that the answer is people just have to keep showing up and I think we can get there if people are willing to.

NOBILO: What do you think would be a political pathway to concerted federal action that is very meaningful and will make a big difference to this constant tragic drumbeat of shootings in the United States?

HEYNE: Yeah, it's the question that keeps me up at night, you know, and like you said, when my parents were shot 18 years ago when my mom was killed with a single bullet to the back, it kept me up then too, right? Because as we started peeling back the layers of the onion and figured out how our shooting happened. Just like this, we know that there's a lot we can do.

And not only is there a lot we can do, 90 percent of Americans support policies like universal background checks, just requiring that background checks are done when a firearm is purchased and still 18 years after our shooting, that continues to be a loophole that exists in this country in too many states. So we have to start with the foundation like that. Like, how do we set the bar around a universal background check system that allows every other gun law to essentially work. And then we need comprehensive laws that really tackle gun violence in meaningful ways with the types of violence that were occurring. But let's be really clear.

States with strong gun laws have low gun death rates, right? States with weak gun laws have really high gun death rates. We know that gun laws work. And so what we really need to do is also address the system that's allowing a minority of senators to ignore the will of the American people, right? The tools like the procedural filibuster are making it impossible for us to get the change that Americans are calling for day in and day out.

So I think we're getting there. I think we will get there. But it will require that Americans continue to show up. If we can't change the laws, we got to change the lawmakers. And that's something that Sarah Brady said here, one of the founders of our organization at Brady, and it's something we take to real heart. So we're hopeful that there's a path forward, but it requires sustained momentum and people not accepting today's shooting to be our reality.

NOBILO: Christian Heyne, it's been so good to talk to you and of course, so sorry for what has happened to your family, but so impressed with your commitment to the work that you're doing.

HEYNE: Thank you, Bianca. I really appreciate it.

NOBILO: In a tragic bit of irony, the Las Vegas shooting took place the same day as the 11th annual national vigil for victims of gun violence.

(VIDEO PLAYING)

The event honors those who lost their lives in one of America's worst ongoing epidemics. It's sponsored by the Newtown Action Alliance Foundation and other gun violence prevention groups and is held every year before the anniversary of the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting.

[03:20:10]

As the Senate Majority Leader points out, there have been too many days in recent memory marred by gun violence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY), U.S. SENATE MAJORITY LEADER: And of course, as we know, there are more acts of gun violence, mass shootings, than there are days this year in the calendar. And unfortunately, just to almost prove that's true on this day, just this afternoon we learned about another shooting near the campus at UNLV in Nevada. Our prayers are with the victims. Our prayers are with their families.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBILO: We'll be right back.

(VIDEO PLAYING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NOBILO: It was two months ago today that Hamas launched its terror attack on Israel, killing about 1,200 people. And the Israeli military is forging ahead with its campaign to eliminate the militant group in Gaza.

(03:25:04]

Israeli leaders say they've encircled the house of a top Hamas leader, Yahya Sinwar, near Khan Younis in the south. They did not say where they think he is, but asserted that he's underground.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): Last night I said that our forces can reach anywhere in the Gaza Strip. Now they encircled Sinwar's house. His house is not his fortress and he can escape, but it's only a matter of time until we get him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBILO: The Israel Defense Forces blurred the faces of its soldiers in this video from Khan Younis where fierce battles are reported. The IDF says it has breached Hamas defense lines and carried out raids against Hamas strongholds as well. The head of the World Food Program says everyone in Gaza is hungry as access to food and water is limited and the humanitarian system is collapsing.

The Palestine Red Crescent reports 80 trucks carrying humanitarian supplies passed through the Rafah crossing into Gaza on Wednesday. And Egypt says dozens of foreign nationals will be allowed to leave Gaza through that crossing today as well.

For more on all of this, let's bring in CNN's Clare Sebastian joining me here in London. Clare, tell us more about the fact that the IDF now have Sinwar in their sights. What do they think he's responsible for and what more do we know about the specific terrorists that they're targeting there?

CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Bianca, Yahya Sinwar is the highest ranking official in Hamas. He is the leader of Hamas in Gaza. So as such, he is the prime target for this entire Israeli operation. Now, they don't, as you say, have him yet. They have been moving relatively quickly into the city of Khan Younis, the second largest city in Gaza.

And this may explain why they say they've now, as you say, encircled his house, but believe him to be underground without specifying whether or not he's actually in Khan Younis or in the vicinity of that house. But it is still very significant this moment for Israel. Take a listen to Mark Regev, the senior advisor to Prime Minister Netanyahu, how he described this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK REGEV, SR. ADVISER TO ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: I think it's a symbolic victory for Israel, but it will be a real victory very soon. It's only a matter of time before we get the man who was directly responsible for the massacre of 1,200 Israelis on October 7th, the brutal massacre, the atrocities, the rapes, the burnings, the beheadings. We will reach him, and justice will be done. (END VIDEO CLIP)

SEBASTIAN: So as you heard there, Israel believes he is directly responsible for instigating the attacks of October 7th. Yahya Sinwar, just for a bit of background, he has spent many decades rising through the ranks of Hamas. He spent, notably, 23 years in prison in Israel for planning the murder of two Israelis and four Palestinians accused of collaborating with Israel. He was then released in 2011 as part of the prisoner swap for Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit and of course now has gone on to Israel believes plan the October 7th attacks Bianca.

NOBILO: Clare, we've heard in the last couple of hours that the U.N. Secretary General Antonio Guterres has invoked article 99 now that can sound a bit esoteric. But essentially it's a global warning about the threat that the war in Gaza presents to the rest of the world. Tell us more about that and how he think what the more mechanism he sees at play there.

SEBASTIAN: Yeah, so this has come under some sort of questioning criticism even in the last few hours, Bianca, over, I mean, what is the point?

The U.N. Security Council already has this drawn to their attention at the catastrophe in Gaza. There have already been pushes for various resolutions for a ceasefire that haven't made it through. The way the U.N. spokesperson described it is this is a way to push even harder. This is a dramatic constitutional move in terms of how the U.N. operates. It hasn't been done in decades.

It's certainly never been done by this U.N. secretary general. And we've seen that the UAE has now come out and responded and tabled a draft resolution calling for an immediate ceasefire. The spokesperson said that Guterres expects the U.N. to meet this week on this. But obviously we've seen in the past, very hard to find consensus on the Security Council on these resolutions. Bianca?

NOBILO: Certainly is. Clare Sebastian, thank you so much.

Still ahead, new charges related to the efforts to overturn the 2020 U.S. presidential election. This man seen here with Donald Trump is one of six people now indicted in Nevada for their alleged roles as fake electors. Those details are, for you, coming up.

Plus, an aid package for Ukraine's war effort against Russia hits a stumbling block in the U.S. Congress.

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[03:30:00]

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BIANCA NOBILO, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back.

We're learning more about the university shooting where three people were killed in Las Vegas on Wednesday. Police say the suspect opened fire at the University of Nevada in Las Vegas just before noon. He was killed after engaging with officers on campus.

A law enforcement source tells CNN the man was a college professor, though it's unknown what his link to this university was. Police are still trying to find out what the motive was for the attack. This shooting, along with another tragic string of homicides by gun violence in Texas, prompted U.S. President Joe Biden to ask Congress for tighter gun legislation again.

CNN's Erin Burnett spoke with a university student who was in a class in the same building where the shooting occurred. He thanks his professor for getting the students out safely. And here's part of that conversation for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRETT JOHNSEN, STUDENT, UNIVERSITY OF NEVADA LAS VEGAS: I was in my business law class and my professor was going over our lecture, mid lecture. I remember we heard a loud noise. It sounded like, it didn't sound like a gunshot, didn't have that base behind it. And it wasn't that, to me, it didn't sound like a gunshot, but it just, I heard a loud noise and one of my classmates stopped the lecture. She interrupted the professor and she was like, what was that noise? And everybody was kind of wandering around.

Our professor and everybody, we all agreed, we always hear a bunch of strange noises. So he continued back to his lecture and about five seconds in, that's when the alarm came on.

And I immediately took my phone out because first off, I've never heard an alarm like that before. Didn't sound like a fire alarm or anything. We were all pretty calm though. None of us, we did hear that loud noise, but none of us were panicking or freaking out. We just thought maybe it was a fire alarm or maybe a false alarm or something. So we started to pack our things up very nonchalantly. Like I said, none of us were panicking.

[03:35:01]

When we started walking out the class, that's when things got real. My teacher went to let us out the door and I remember he opened the door and he was calm before opening the door. And as soon as he opened it, his face, it looked like he saw something and he kind of turned into panic a little bit.

And he immediately told us to get back, get back, lock the doors and get on the ground. And that's when I started to panic a little bit when he told us to get on the ground. Cause you know, if the shooter came into the building and in our classroom, we're all just basically sitting ducks.

So after about 30 seconds, my teacher, he like sneakily opened the door again and he assessed the situation and he looked outside and. He told us to run as fast as we can. I'm grateful for him because if he didn't let us out and we were stuck in that classroom and who knows if the shooter came in, we were all just sitting ducks. So I had full trust in my teacher. And when he opened the door and he told us to run, I knew we had to run.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBILO: The Nevada grand jury has indicted six Republicans for acting as fake electors in a scheme intended to overturn Joe Biden's win in 2020 and hand the state to Donald Trump. The group includes the chair of the Nevada Republican Party, and all are now facing felony charges. Nevada is now the third state to bring charges against Republican activists who falsely claim to be legitimate representatives in the Electoral College.

CNN's Kyung Lah has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KYUNG LAH, CNN SR. U.S. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This event, posing as an official ceremony, is central to the indictments announced today in Nevada. A grand jury indicted these six fake electors may now face felony charges.

(VIDEO PLAYING)

That's a lie. Trump lost Nevada in 2020 by 33,000 votes. Joe Biden won Nevada's six electoral votes.

The document they signed that day became part of a charade seeking to undermine voters' faith in democracy. Since that day in 2020, the fake electors have faced scrutiny, but they did not face charges until today and have continued in Republican politics.

We found two of them in this Reno, Nevada library.

LAH: You haven't spoken it, you're not gonna comment on whether you've spoken to anybody.

JIM HINDLE, NEVADA REPUBLICAN PARTY VICE CHAIRMAN: It's going on, right?

LAH: But you do understand it's a --

HINDLE: Please, if you would turn that off, we have nothing to talk about, really, on that. Yeah, I have nothing to say.

LAH (voice-over): This is Nevada Republican Vice Chairman Jim Hindle now indicted, and Nevada Republican Party National Committeeman Jim DeGraffenried also indicted.

JIM DEGRAFFENRIED, INDICTED BY GRAND JURY: Yeah, I've been contacted by investigators.

LAH: What about the testimony in Georgia?

HINDLE: We've been making the roadshow around the state.

LAH (voice-over): Criss-crossing the state, talking about next year's caucus. LAH: Is there any irony in you going around with, to use your words,

the roadshow, talking about 2024 when in 2020 you signed this fake elector document?

HINDLE: I'm not going to answer any questions. I apologize, but you, you know, this is not something I will entertain.

LAH: Do you still believe Trump won?

DEGRAFFENRIED: Yeah, it's irrelevant. The Electoral College elects the president, so the Electoral College elected Joe Biden, and so Joe Biden is the president.

LAH: Then how do you explain what happened in 2020, that ceremony you participated in, and the document you signed?

DEGRAFFENRIED: Again, no comment on that.

LAH (voice-over): We contacted all of Nevada's six fake electors about the state attorney general's investigation.

LAH: I'm looking for Shawn Meehan.

SEAN MEEHAN, INDICTED BY GRAND JURY: This is him.

LAH (voice-over): And this is Meehan in 2020.

LAH: In the attorney general's investigation of the fake electors.

MEEHAN: I have no comment on that.

LAH: Let's try it, so.

OPERATOR: You've reached the office of Michael J. McDonald.

LAH: I'm trying to reach Mr. McDonald again.

LAH (voice-over): The leader of the fake electors, Michael McDonald. Current Nevada Republican chairman was center stage just last month. One of Trump's closest allies in the West.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: I want to thank Michael, he's been fantastic right from the beginning.

LAH (voice-over): McDonald has been summoned by both the January 6th grand jury and in the Georgia fake electors case. McDonald is also now indicted.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NOBILO: Thanks to Kyung Lah for that report.

U.S. funding for Ukraine is hanging in the balance just as the White House warns that money for Kyiv is drying up. On Wednesday, Senate Republicans blocked an aid package for Ukraine, which also included aid for Israel. That happened just days after the White House said that the money for Ukraine will likely run out by the end of the year.

But as Manu Raju reports, the reason for Republican opposition has nothing to do with Ukraine or Israel.

[03:40:04]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Fears in the capital that Ukraine aid could be stalled permanently amid a dispute over immigration that has completely stymied negotiations in the Senate. Republicans are demanding that aid to Ukraine be paired with stricter border policies.

And Democrats say that what the Republicans are proposing is just far too much than they are willing to accept. The end result, a bill that they tried to advance, Democrats did without those stricter border measures. failed in the Senate on Wednesday evening.

Now, one of the key Republican negotiators, Thom Tillis of North Carolina, told me that he believes that something needs to be done now because there will be a migrant surge at the border, even worse than now, if Donald Trump becomes president and migrants believing that they need to come over the border now before 2025.

SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): So you have a presidential candidate who says he will close the border on day one. Donald Trump said that within the last 48 hours. He is likely to be the nominee and likely to win the race. What do you think is gonna happen with future flows next year? They're gonna double over the four time increase in the last year of Trump.

RAJU: But there is so much uncertainty about how this ultimately will get resolved, given the divide over the policy, as well as the process. The Speaker of the House, Mike Johnson, wants to move these bills individually, Ukraine aid, Israel aid, as well as dealing with the border, tie the border tied to Ukraine. Democrats want Israel and Ukraine and everything else tied together as one big package.

But they first have to agree on the policy and they're nowhere near an agreement on that, which is why there is a belief in the Capitol that members will leave town for the holidays without dealing with aid to Ukraine in a time when the White House warns that urgent action is needed or Ukraine will be kneecapped in its war against Russia.

Manu Raju, CNN, Capitol Hill.

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NOBILO: And as American lawmakers bicker over proving new aid for Ukraine, Ukrainian soldiers are battling to secure a strategic town and they're getting increasingly worried about their future support. We'll take you to the battle lines in eastern Ukraine.

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[03:45:00]

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NOBILO: Ukraine says at least one person was killed in the latest round of Russian drone strikes across the country. The Ukrainian Air Force says it shot down 15 of the 18 drones that targeted the east and the south Thursday morning. But the drones that went through hit port infrastructure in the Odessa region, killing a truck driver. The attack also caused a fire that was quickly put out.

Along the front line in eastern Ukraine, Russia is intensifying its attacks, particularly around the strategic town of Avdiivka, where Ukrainian forces worry about having to fight with aging weapons and eroding U.S. support. CNN's Anna Coren is there.

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ANNA COREN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Down a muddy road, hedged by a bank of spindly trees and branches, sits an old farmhouse.

Its owners left some time ago, but it has new residents. These are soldiers from the 47th Mechanized Brigade.

SASHA, GRAND UNIT COMMANDER, 47TH MECHANIZED BRIGADE: That's where we keep our missiles.

COREN (voice-over): And they're part of the fight for Avdiivka, one of the most fiercely contested battles on Ukraine's eastern front. Camouflaged under the thicket is a Grad, a multiple-launch rocket system from the Soviet era.

As outgoing artillery fires from nearby fields, 32-year-old Sasha wishes they had better and more modern weapons.

SASHA: When you hit with the modern weapons and with the Western weapons, of course, they're more accurate and they bring, let's say, more damage to the enemy.

COREN (voice-over): In the past two months, Russia has been sending waves and waves of troops to Avdiiva as they try to encircle the town. But Sasha and his fellow soldiers know this war could become even more difficult. if U.S. aid, now under threat, suddenly dries up.

SASHA: All the delay, it's just the cost, it's the lives of the best Ukrainian people. We have the spirit, we will continue definitely, but we need some kind of support.

COREN: If U.S. Congress does not pass the military aid package, then Ukraine will not receive the advanced weaponry it desperately needs to fight this war. And that means it will have to rely more heavily on decades-old Soviet equipment like this Grad to combat Russian forces who are gaining supremacy on the front line.

COREN (voice-over): A sobering reality for these soldiers almost two years into this war.

SASHA: I'm afraid Ukraine will not be able to stand without our partners and allies. So this is the -- as simple as that.

COREN (voice-over): Weighing even heavier on their minds is last week's alleged execution of two unarmed Ukrainian soldiers who were surrendering to Russian forces not far from Sasha's position. Drone footage shows the POWs climbing out of their dugout, arms above their head, before being shot at close range.

Ukraine is now investigating what the Prosecutor-General caused a gross violation of the Geneva Conventions.

SASHA: Every similar event brings a lot of pain and suffering to us, that's for sure. It will not make us weak. It will not scare us. We will continue doing what we have to do.

COREN (voice-over): Which is fighting a seemingly endless war as they build more trenches. Uncertain if the West will truly be there for the long haul.

SASHA: If we let Ukraine go, if we let Putin win, then who will feel themselves safe here? I think no one.

COREN (voice-over): Anna Coren, CNN, on the outskirts of Avdiivka, Ukraine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NOBILO: Russia's upper house of parliament has announced that the country will hold a presidential election in March 2024. The Russian Federation unanimously approved that election. President Vladimir Putin has not officially announced his intention to run, but it is expected that he will. And for the first time, residents of four occupied Ukrainian regions will participate, despite the international community declaring those annexations illegal.

Former British Prime Minister Boris Johnson has just arrived for a second day at the U.K.'s public Covid inquiry. It's examining how he and his former government implemented lockdowns and other measures during the pandemic. He tried to apologize to the families affected by COVID-19 during his appearance on Wednesday, but hecklers were not having any of it. Some protesters held signs that said, quote, "the dead can't hear your apologies." That's according to the PA news agency. Johnson didn't cite specific errors he considered he or his staff made at the time.

We'll be right back.

[03:50:10]

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NOBILO: The New York Yankees are adding another powerful bat to their lineup. The Bronx Bombers have acquired 25-year-old outfielder Juan Soto in trade with the San Diego Padres. Soto hit 35 home runs last season. He's a three-time All-Star and was a member of the Washington Nationals when they won the World Series in 2019. In exchange for Soto and another outfielder, the Padres are getting four pitches and a catcher.

In U.S. college basketball, Iowa star Caitlin Clark became the 15th player in the NCAA division of one women's history to score 3,000 career points. The 21-year-old came into the game against the rival Iowa State Cyclones, just 22 points shy of that milestone. She then surpassed it on a three-point shot in the third quarter, getting a rousing ovation from fans. The reigning National Player of the Year also became the first player in men -- all women's history, Division 1 history, to record 3,000 points, 750 rebounds and 750 assists in a college career.

[03:55:08]

I felt like I was speaking Greek just then. And before we go, the television world has lost an icon who reshaped the industry. Norman Lear has died at the age of 101. He dominated American television in the 1970s with massive hits that found ways to make us laugh while also raising awareness about issues like racism. Perhaps his biggest genre-defining hit was "All in the Family."

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Later, "The Jeffersons" was hailed as the first show on T.V. to depict wealthy African Americans who still struggled to be accepted in a white community.

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Norman Lear was also a figure in progressive politics, speaking out against the influence of religion in politics. He remained active in film and T.V. production well into his 90s. Norman Lear died at the age of 101.

And that wraps this hour of "CNN Newsroom." I'm Bianca Nobilo in London, and I will be right back and switching studios with more "CNN Newsroom" after this short break.

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