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Heavy Fighting in Gaza Amid Search for Hamas Leaders; Gaza Experiencing 'Alarming Levels of Hunger'; Trump Vows Retribution on Political Enemies if Elected; IDF Search for Hamas Leader after Surrounding His Home; India, China Adding Coal Capacity to Meet Energy Demands. Aired 12-12:45a ET
Aired December 08, 2023 - 00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOHN VAUSE, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Ahead this hour on CNN, the search for Hamas. Israeli forces now focus on the city of Khan Yunis in Southern Gaza.
Former El Presidente Donald Trump has made no secret of his admiration for dictators. And if he wins a second term, it seems he wants to be one, as well.
And why did China and India go to COP28? Not only abstaining from a pledge to increase energy from renewables, both plan to increase burning coal for years to come.
ANNOUNCER: Live from Atlanta, this is CNN NEWSROOM with John Vause.
VAUSE: Two months since a deadly surprise attack by Hamas on Israel, and IDF ground forces are now focusing on Khan Yunis, the second biggest city in Gaza, as they hunt down Hamas leaders.
Israel says hundreds of terrorist suspects have been arrested and interrogated in recent days, but so far, most of the senior leaders of Hamas are still alive and have avoided capture.
And fighting continues in Northern Gaza, as well. Video geolocated by CNN shows heavy gunfire at the Jabalya refugee camp. Palestinians can be seen running through the streets with the sound of gunfire in the distance. Now, civilians in Gaza say nowhere is safe right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): They told people to leave Gaza City and to go to Khan Yunis. We are in the city of Khan Yunis, and we were supposed to be an in unthreatened areas, the blocs that were not threatened.
Israel should have given a warning that they will strike this building. There were hundreds of residents in the building behind you. And they left just one day before the strike.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Images posted on social media show a mass detention of men in Gaza by the IDF. In the images, a large group, stripped to their underwear, are seen kneeling down while blindfolded.
Just when this happened and the circumstances of the detentions remain unclear, but some of the detainees' identities have been confirmed by family members as well as employers. They all say the man are civilians, or some of them, and are not affiliated with any militant group.
CNN asked the IDF to comment, then they have not responded to this, point, but a spokesperson says Israeli forces are checking who has ties to Hamas and who does not.
U.S. President Joe Biden spoke with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Thursday. The White House says he emphasized the critical need to protect civilians in this ongoing military operation in Gaza.
CNN's Alex Marquardt has more now on the latest military developments.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALEX MARQUART, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This video of Hamas fighting against Israeli troops, which was released by the militant group, shows not only how intense the battles are, but is a propaganda message from Hamas that they are still fiercely resisting, two months into this war.
Israel's stated goal of eradicating Hamas has driven Israeli troops straight into Khan Yunis, where they believe the most senior Hamas leaders may be, including Hamas's top official in Gaza, Yahya Sinwar, who remains on the battlefield.
Mohammed Deif, the shadowy head of Hamas's military wing, is also believed to still be alive.
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu claims Israeli forces surrounded Sinwar's Khan Yunis home, though the IDF admits they believe he's hiding out underground.
Two months after Hamas carried out the deadliest attack in Israel's history, the response has led to a colossal humanitarian catastrophe. Experts and officials say Hamas has been degraded, but Israel still has a long way to go to achieve its goals.
OFER SHELAH, FORMER MEMBER OF ISRAELI PARLIAMENT: What the IDF has been tasked with is disabling Hamas as a threat to Israeli people by killing terrorists, by destroying infrastructure, and by eventually getting to the leadership of Hamas.
MARQUARDT (voice-over): That effort is still very much underway. The IDF released this photo of leaders of Hamas's Northern Gaza brigade, circling five commanders that the IDF says it killed in a tunnel.
CNN reached out to Hamas for comment.
Israel claims to have killed other senior and mid-level commanders, as well as several rank-and-file militants, which is just a fraction of what the IDF estimates is 30,000 fighters. [00:05:03]
LT. GEN. MARK SCHWARTZ (RET.), U.S. ARMY: I think there have been some successes, but my point is, there's going to still be a lot more ground combat to come. And I think you'll see over the coming weeks more precision targeting going after Hamas leaders as they, you know, show themselves.
MARQUARDT (voice-over): In the next month or so, U.S. officials say Israel is expected to lower the intensity of its operations, which have killed thousands of civilians, so many of them children, and displaced more than 80 percent of Gaza's population.
Israel hears the international pressure and global calls for a ceasefire, but insists there is still much more of Hamas to root out before the diplomacy starts.
SHELAH: We're getting to a tipping point, where the major question will no longer be how many people we kill. It will be what happens in Gaza so that the situation there becomes different, and nothing like Hamas can grow again to be a military threat against Israel.
MARQUARDT (voice-over): Alex Marquardt, CNN, Tel Aviv.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: The IDF has confirmed carrying out airstrikes on Syria and Lebanon in response to incoming missile fire.
According to Lebanon's national news agency, several students were wounded after a strike on a Lebanese border town. Well, the Israeli military said its fighters hit an operational command-and-control center in Lebanon, which was belonging to Hezbollah.
The militant group claims it targeted at least -- targeted at least two Israeli towns on Thursday. And a missile filed from Lebanon reportedly killed a 60-year-old man in Israel.
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu made a visit to Northern Israel and issued a strong warning to the militant group Hezbollah.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): If Hezbollah decides to open an all-out war, then within its own hands, it will turn Beirut and Southern Lebanon, which are not far from here, into Gaza and Khan Yunis.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Joining us now this hour is Rami Khouri, a distinguished fellow of public policy at the American University in Beirut. Welcome back. It's good to see you.
RAMI KHOURI, DISTINGUISHED FELLOW OF PUBLIC POLICY, AMERICAN UNIVERSITY IN BEIRUT: Thank you. Good to be with you. VAUSE: So we just heard from the Israeli prime minister, issuing a
very blunt warning, or a threat to Hezbollah. Here's the view from Lebanon, and Hezbollah lawmaker Hassan Fadallah.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HASSAN FADALLAH, LEBANESE MP (through translator): In Lebanon, we are concerned facing this challenge, being vigilant and always ready to confront any possibility and any danger that may arise in our country.
No one thinks that Lebanon has been spared from the Zionist targeting or that what is happening in Gaza cannot affect the situation in Lebanon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: So right now, neither side is talking about de-escalation, right? So the words from Benjamin Netanyahu, they seem to be fighting words. You know, a whole different category, you know, of what's been said -- what's been said up until this point.
So could that actually backfire on Israel? Could Hezbollah see that as a challenge, maybe a threat; they'll call Netanyahu's bluff? Could it escalate the situation?
KHOURI: I don't think so. Hezbollah is not silly or stupid enough to fall into that kind of track. And I don't think Netanyahu wants a war. I think his tone is a reflection of the fact that he's actually not doing that well in Gaza. He hasn't really achieved his aims. He's generated tremendous international criticism. His people are looking at investigations of genocide by the Israelis and by the people who support them.
There's lawsuits against Biden now, and so they're not doing that well. And it doesn't look like they're going to be able to carry on for a period -- a long period of time.
So at some point, the fighting is going to have to stop, and Hamas will probably be intact. So he -- I think he's just trying to make some sounds that get him support at home and make him look tough. And basically, that's what I think is going on.
VAUSE: These cross-border attacks between Hezbollah and Israel, they surged in the wake of the October 7th attack. And in that first week, a reporter with the Reuters news agency was killed. Six others were wounded.
An investigation by Reuters found that Issam Abdallah was killed by Israeli tank fire. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALESSANDRA GALLONI, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, REUTERS: We condemn Issam's killing, and we call on Israel to explain how this could have happened. And to hold to account those responsible for his death.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: What are the chances of that happening? And also, this conflict has been especially deadly for reporters, especially those in Gaza. Some say -- those reporters say -- some say they're being targeted by Israeli soldiers. The IDF denies that.
But you know, the reality is covering a war is dangerous and at times deadly.
[00:10:04]
KHOURI: You know, the war in Gaza has killed, I think, almost 65 journalists now, and many more members of the families of journalists, as well.
There's no chance that Israel is going to seriously investigate this, or let anybody else investigate it. Because one of the hallmarks of Israel's war strategies has been to kill and to terrorize journalists so they do less coverage. They don't let any foreign journalists into Gaza now.
And then when it does happen, they'll come up with all kinds of excuses like they did with Shireen Abu Akleh last year and Jenin (ph) in Palestine.
They'll say, oh, there's crossfire and it was somebody else. And then later on, they'll admit it. So they have a very bad track record in this arena. So I wouldn't expect them to do anything serious. They just -- they just let the matter die.
VAUSE: Just getting to Israel and Hezbollah, if there is, in fact, you know, an escalation in the conflict, if it does actually return to some kind of second front of a war, an all-out war, how devastating would that actually be for Lebanon, which as a country, has spiraled from crisis to crisis in recent years and is quite weak?
KHOURI: Yes, Lebanon is in a really difficult situation economically and politically, and water and environment and in every way.
The country's been through several of these incidents, where Hezbollah and Israelis are fighting. And the damage is done to the civilian infrastructure or the national infrastructure of Lebanon. Hundreds of thousands of people are misplaced from the South.
And the problem for Lebanon is the government is weak, and Hezbollah is much stronger than the government.
So the government and the political system cannot really tell Hezbollah what to do, what not to do. And Hezbollah has some kind of loose agreement with the government, but basically, Hezbollah and the Israelis do what they want in the South.
I think neither of them want the war, but they're both very strong. They have a kind of deterrent system now, a truce, because they both know that any future war, because of Hezbollah's advanced capabilities and the Israeli army's willingness to kill as it's doing in Gaza, totally indiscriminately and destroy everything, the damage would be enormous.
And Hezbollah's missiles come and reach way deeper into -- into Israel. It's not just going to be along the Northern border. So I doubt there's going to be a war.
VAUSE: Rami Khouri, thank you for being with us. Rami Khouri there, distinguished fellow of public policy at American University in Beirut. Thank, you sir.
KHOURI: Thank you.
VAUSE: United Nations aid operations in Southern Gaza appear to be on hold. U.N. officials say they can no longer operate while the Israeli military offensive continues, which means for almost two million people, there's little food, clean water and medical supplies. And even the so-called safe zones are not safe.
Here's CNN's Ben Wedeman.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
(BABY CRYING)
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Isla (ph) was born the day the truce went into effect, seemingly so long ago.
She lives with her parents and brother in a makeshift shelter in Der- ik Bela (ph). "It lacks the basics of life for the cold for the winter," says her mother, also named Isla (ph).
This young family is part of the 1.9 million people, 85 percent of Gaza's population, that has been displaced. Displaced, but still in danger.
Smoke rises over Rafah, where so many fled to. Wednesday afternoon, this house in the Rafaz (ph) refugee camp was bombed. Inevitably in such a crowded place, children were among the dead.
"There's no safe place in Gaza," says Iya Del-Hakbi (ph). "Any place can be hit."
The Palestinian Health Ministry says more than 20 people were killed in the strike, including 17 members from the same extended family.
"They told them the South was safe. They came here, the safe place, and they were all killed," says Basama Houkbi (ph).
Death now stalks every corner of this land.
In Khan Yunis, the focus of Israel's current offensive, the hospital is overwhelmed with the injured. And yet, more come. The World Health Organization's Gaza envoy says they're doing what they can. RICHARD PEEPERKORN, WHO GAZA ENVOY: But the health infrastructure is
on its knees. It's -- it's almost collapsing. That is what the reality is. It's almost collapsing.
WEDEMAN (voice-over): Collapse, chaos, destruction, and death, such is Gaza's lot.
Ben Wedeman, CNN, Jerusalem.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[00:15:05]
VAUSE: When we come back, Iran and Russia, best friends and pariahs to much of the world, now moving even closer. United by wars in Ukraine and Gaza, they announced a new step in their economic cooperation and a broad condemnation of Israel's actions in Gaza.
Also ahead, Republican frontrunner Donald Trump skips another debate. He offers a very dark preview of what he wants his second term to be like. That's ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VAUSE: Iran's president has described Israel's war in Gaza as unfolding genocide, and the West, he says, is partly to blame.
Those comments came during a two-day visit to -- day-long visit, rather, to the Kremlin on Thursday, where he met with Russian President Vladimir Putin. The Russian leader said the two countries are stepping up their economic cooperation, and Iran will cut a free trade deal with the Eurasian Economic Union, a group of former Soviet nations dominated by Moscow, later this month.
Both leaders discussed the war in Gaza.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): It is very important for us to exchange views on the situation in the region, especially regarding the situation in Palestine.
EBRAHIM RAISI (through translator): What is happening in Palestine and Gaza is, of course, genocide and a crime against humanity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: He didn't actually explain how the West was responsible for that genocide.
The meeting came a day after Putin's visit to the UAE, the United Arab Emirates, and Saudi Arabia.
Donald Trump is expected to return to the witness stand on Monday in the $250 million civil fraud case against him in New York. Trump was in court Thursday to hear NYU accounting professor Eli
Bartov testify as an expert witness, a $500,000 one, for the defense. Bartov says large fluctuations in real-estate values did not amount to fraud, as prosecutors have alleged, but were standard accounting procedures.
An attorney for the former president said he advised him not to testify Monday, because he's still under a gag order. But he said he's determined to be present at his case.
Trump has repeatedly denied any wrongdoing. Here's what he had to say during a break in the trial on Thursday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have a very corrupt country. We have a very corrupt political system. And they're doing this to hurt a political opponent. This is third-world country stuff. This is banana republic stuff. And it's a shame. It's a shame what's happening to our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: CNN senior political analyst Ron Brownstein joins us now from Los Angeles. He's also senior editor at "The Atlantic."
Good to see you, Ron.
RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Hey, John.
VAUSE: OK. So while it could be debated, perhaps parts of the U.S. legal system mirror aspects of a third-world banana republic, if Trump wins a second term, though, it seems he's getting the whole enchilada, full-on dictator on day one. Here he is on FOX News on Tuesday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS HOST: Under no circumstances -- you are promising America tonight -- you would never abuse of power as retribution against anybody?
[00:20:04]
TRUMP: Except for day one.
He says, You're not going to be a dictator, are you?
I said, No, no, no, other than day one.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Winston Churchill said a benevolent dictator is the best form of government. The only problem is finding a benevolent dictator. That's not what Trump had in mind, is it?
RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: No. First of all, I found myself thinking, doesn't Sean Hannity's joints hurt from spending an entire hour on his knees? Especially after his behavior in the DeSantis-Newsom debate.
Now, look, Donald Trump says many outrageous things every day. Many outrageous, unprecedented things happen around Donald Trump every day. So, it's easy to lose sight of the main storyline here.
But the main storyline is that Trump is, on multiple fronts, giving us a very clear indication of how he intends to approach a second term, if he is reelected.
And that involves a much more overtly authoritarian agenda that poses a much more existential threat to American democracy as we have known it.
Abd I have said, and I believe, that really not since the years before the Civil War, when John Calhoun of the South was arguably the dominant figure in the Democratic Party, have we faced the situation we are now in, where the dominant figure in one of our two major parties is not someone who is committed to democracy as we have known and experienced it in this country for two and a half centuries.
VAUSE: You know, we now know a lot more about Trump, compared to 2015 and 2016.
Now, when Trump makes outrageous comments -- and like you said, there's a lot of them -- or he says something that sounds kind of crazy or admits to a crime, one big takeaway is that we should actually take him at his word.
BROWNSTEIN: Yes, absolutely. I mean, you know, one of the -- one of the most unjustified and invalidated statements ever was that we should take Trump seriously, but not literally. We should take him seriously and literally.
And he is telling us, in a variety of ways -- you know, we did a special issue of "The Atlantic" of what a Trump second term would mean. It doesn't require, necessarily, digging through, you know, hidden emails or talking to all sorts of advisers. He is laying it out.
If you go to the videos that he is putting up on his website, the Agenda 47. And in the piece that I wrote, for example, I noted all of the ways in which --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Clearly, maybe, she's been living with --
BROWNSTEIN: -- deploying federal force into blue cities. Door-to-door deportation campaigns. Sending the National Guard in to fight crime. Sending federal law enforcement officials in to sweep out the homeless. Establishing internment camps for undocumented immigrants. Establishing detainee camps for the homeless.
You know, openly talking about using the Justice Department to pursue his political enemies. He is not hiding what he is intending to do. And there's an audience for it. As Mitt Romney noted yesterday, there
is part of his base that thrills to the idea of using federal power in this way.
The question is whether a majority of Americans, in the end, will be willing to live under the system that that implies.
VAUSE: You mentioned your piece in "The Atlantic." It is a very good read. Here's the headline: "In the Second Term, Trump Would Punish the Cities and States that Don't Support Him."
And you make a mention here. He's done this already. It was in 2017. It was his tax reform bill. It financially punished voters in blue states like New York and California by placing severe limits on what they could deduct from their income tax. That seems kind of gentle compared to what could be coming in a second term.
But to your point, there's a part of this base which are very public about supporting this. Is there also a part that's not so public but just as eager to have this take place as, you know, the ones that are out there at the rallies with the signs and the hats?
BROWNSTEIN: Yes, look, I mean, when Trump says, I am your retribution, you know, he is speaking it what I believe has been the core binding agent or the core fuel in the Republican coalition for over a decade, since before Trump emerged on the scene, which is that it is now reliant, primarily, on the people and places that are most uncomfortable with the way the country is changing. Demographically, culturally, and economically. They feel the most marginalized by that.
And Trump's appeal has always been that they see him as a way to strike back against those changes. There are lots of voters who are dissatisfied with the way things are going in the country. They're unhappy about inflation, unhappy about climate, unhappy about the border, unhappy about the prospect of reelecting Joe Biden in his 80s to a second term.
And so the universe of people who are kind of open to something else is larger than it was, probably, in 2016 or 2020. And the issue will be, if Trump does, in fact, win the nomination and the choice gets posed more sharply, is there -- does the majority that wants change want this change?
[00:25:05]
Or is there going to be, in the end, what we saw in, really in '18, '20 and '22, which was that, despite all the doubts about Democrats and the doubts about Biden, still a majority that was unwilling to go in this direction?
Trump is posing a question, John, as starkly as you can. You know, people talk about, you know, an ordinary political candidate would be focusing on the areas where voters are unhappy. Talking about inflation, talking about, you know, keeping the economy -- improving the economy. He is laying out a very stark departure from what we have understood
America to be and betting that the discontent will be enough to give him the power to implement it.
VAUSE: Ron, great to have you with us. We really appreciate your time. Ron Brownstein there in Los Angeles.
BROWNSTEIN: OK.
VAUSE: Well, Israel calls him a dead man walking. After the break, we'll tell you about the man most wanted by the Israeli government in Gaza. There he is right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VAUSE: One of the most wanted men in Gaza right now is Yahya Sinwar. He's the leader of Hamas and Gaza and believed to be the mastermind behind the October 7th attack.
Despite a two month-long unprecedented military assault by Israel, Sinwar is still believe -- is believed to be alive and still at large. Although his house was surrounded by Israeli forces in Gaza last week. That's according to the prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu.
More details now from Brian Todd.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): One of Israel's top targets, the man they call the face of evil, Yahya Sinwar, Hamas's highest ranking leader inside Gaza.
Top Israeli officials have sounded very confident in recent days that they'll kill him, saying their forces have encircled his house in Southern Gaza.
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): His house is not his fortress, and he can escape, but it's only a matter of time until we get him.
TODD (voice-over): Without elaborating, Israeli officials say they believe Sinwar is underground.
HUSSAIN ABDUL-HUSSAIN, FOUNDATION FOR DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACIES: He's most likely in these tunnels that Israel fears to go into them because they're not sure what is there, when they're booby-trapped.
TODD (voice-over): Such is the existence of the 61-year-old who's imprinted his hatred of Israel into the identity of Hamas. Analysts say, as one of Hamas's top masterminds of the October 7th attacks.
ABDUL-HUSSAIN: Yahya Sinwar to Israel is what bin Laden is to the United States. And like Americans went after bin Laden and eventually got him, I think the Israelis will do the same; and this war will not end until they get Sinwar. TODD (voice-over): Sinwar joined Hamas in his twenties, arrested by
the Israelis for the murders of two Israeli soldiers and four Palestinians. He spent 23 years in an Israeli prison, learned Hebrew. And it was during that period that the Israelis actually saved his life.
[00:30:14]
ABDUL-HUSSAIN: A tumor was discovered in his head. Israeli doctors operated on him, took the tumor out, and he survived.
TODD (voice-over): Michael Koubi, a former officer of Israel's Shin Bet security agency, says he interrogated Yahya Sinwar for a total of about 180 hours.
Koubi says he knows Sinwar better than Sinwar's own mother and describes him as the cruelest man he ever met, known to use a machete to kill Palestinians who were suspected of collaborating with Israeli intelligence.
MICHAEL KOUBI, FORMER OFFICE OF ISRAEL'S SHIN BET: I asked him, "You're now 28, 29," and how come he's not married? How come he doesn't want a family? So he told me that, Hamas is my wife. The Hamas is my child. The Hamas for me is everything.
TODD (voice-over): Sinwar was among more than a thousand Palestinian prisoners released in 2011, in exchange for captured Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit. Just last year, he seemed to warn Israel what was
coming.
YAHYA SINWAR, HAMAS LEADER (through translator): We will come to you, God willing, in a roaring flood. We will come to you with an endless number of rockets. We will come to you in a flood of soldiers without limit.
TODD (voice-over): Analysts say that the man who survived an Israeli assassination attempt in 2021, won't be easy to kill this time either.
ABDUL-HUSSEIN: If there's someone who's passing on information to the Israelis, he knows who they are, and he takes them out before the Israelis get to him.
TODD: Analyst Hussein Abdul-Hussein says, if and when the Israelis eliminate Yahya Sinwar, it's likely that whoever tries to take his place won't be nearly as brutal as Sinwar.
But even if it's someone more moderate, he says, it really won't matter, given how determined the Israelis are to take out all of Hamas's leadership.
Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: The second gentleman of the United States, also known as the husband of Vice President Kamala Harris, has spoken out about the rise in antisemitism in the United States since the Hamas October 7th attack.
Doug Emhoff, the first Jewish spouse of a president or vice president, called on Americans to unequivocally condemn antisemitism. He made the comments during the lighting ceremony of the national menorah marking the start of the Jewish holiday Hanukah.
He also slammed the leaders of elite universities for their remarks at a congressional hearing about alleged incidents of antisemitism on their campuses.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DOUG EMHOFF, SECOND GENTLEMAN OF THE U.S.: We've seen the presidents of some of our most elite universities literally unable to denounce calling for the genocide of Jews as antisemitic. That lack of moral clarity is simply unacceptable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: And the president of the University of Pennsylvania is now facing growing demands to resign after her comments during that congressional on antisemitism.
CNN's Miguel Marquez explains.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
REP. ELISE STEFANIK (R-NY): Ms. Magill, at Penn, does calling for the genocide of Jews violate Penn's rules or code of conduct? Yes or no?
LIZ MAGILL, PRESIDENT, UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA: If the speech turns into conduct, it can be harassment, yes.
STEFANIK: I am asking, specifically calling for the genocide of Jews, does that constitute bullying or harassment?
MAGILL: If it is directed and severe and pervasive, it is harassment.
STEFANIK: So the answer is yes?
MAGILL: It is a context-dependent decision, Congresswoman.
STEFANIK: It's a context-dependent decision? That's your testimony today? Calling for the genocide of Jews is dependent upon the context? That is not bullying or harassment? This is the easiest question to answer yes, Ms. Magill!
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Presidents of three of the country's top schools -- MIT, Harvard, and the University of Pennsylvania -- sharply questioned this week on Capitol Hill over antisemitic rhetoric on their campuses, now facing massive backlash for not taking a hardline stance against calls for genocide.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From the river to the sea.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: From the river to the sea. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From the river to the sea.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From the river to the sea.
SALLY KORNBLUTH, PRESIDENT, MIT: I have not heard calling for the genocide of Jews on our campus.
STEFANIK: But you've heard chants for intifada?
KORNBLUTH: I've heard chants which can be antisemitic, depending on the context, when calling for the elimination of the Jewish people.
MARQUEZ (voice-over): So far, no protesters held accountable.
REP. NATHANIEL MORAN (R-TX): Have any students been expelled or disciplined for bullying, harassment, or these actions that you're listing?
CLAUDINE GAY, PRESIDENT OF HARVARD: I can assure you, we have robust student disciplinary processes.
MORAN: No, no, I didn't ask about your -- I did not ask about your processes. I asked if any students have been disciplined or removed from Harvard as a result of the bullying and the harassment that's taken place, based on their antisemitic views.
MARQUEZ (voice-over): After the hearing, University of Pennsylvania President Liz Magill attempted to clarify her remarks, issuing a video statement.
MAGILL: When I was asked if a call for the genocide of Jewish people on our campus would violate our policies, in that moment, I was focused on our university's long-standing policies, aligned with the U.S. Constitution, which say that speech alone is not punishable.
[00:35:20]
I was not focused on, but I should have been.
MARQUEZ (voice-over): Harvard's president, Claudine Gay, issued a written statement after the House committee hearing, in part saying, "Calls for violence or genocide against the Jewish community, or any religious or ethnic group, are vile. They have no place at Harvard. And those who threaten our Jewish students will be held to account."
Pennsylvania's Democratic governor said U.Penn's Magill failed at the most basic level.
GOV. JOSH SHAPIRO (D), PENNSYLVANIA: It shouldn't be hard. And there should be no nuance to that. She needed to give a one-word answer, and she failed to meet that test.
MARQUEZ (voice-over): The White House, making clear on calls for genocide, there is no room for nuance.
KARINE JEAN-PIERRE, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Calls for genocide are unacceptable. It's vile, and it's counter to everything this country stands for. I can't believe I even have to say that. I can't believe I even have to say that.
MARQUEZ (voice-over): From the halls of Congress to presidential politics.
NIKKI HALEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It was disgusting to see what happened.
MARQUEZ (voice-over): Calls for all three university presidents to step aside, growing. Some business leaders, and the CEO of the Anti- Defamation League.
JONATHAN GREENBLATT, CEO, ANTI-DEFAMATION LEAGUE: When I watch these presidents flail, and feebly, with legal-ish answers, respond to a simple line of questioning, I've got to say, we've lost confidence in them.
MARQUEZ (voice-over): Some Jewish students and their supporters, demanding action.
TALIA KHAN, MIT STUDENT: Jewish students do not believe that the MIT administration has done an adequate job to make students feel safe on campus.
JONATHAN FRIEDEN, HARVARD STUDENT: Do something! Protect Jewish people. Protect your students.
MARQUEZ (voice-over): Miguel Marquez, CNN, New York.
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VAUSE: Still ahead here on CNN, how India and China's addiction to coal might just derail global -- global efforts to cut carbon emissions and save the planet. More in a moment.
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VAUSE: At COP28, the U.N.'s annual global change conference this week is starting to wind down. Officials from India and China have made it known that burning more coal is a key part of their plans to meet future energy demands, at the same time, refusing to join 118 other countries who signed a pledge to increase power generation from renewable sources.
CNN's Vedika Sud is in New Delhi with details.
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VEDIKA SUD, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The world's two most populous nations are deepening their reliance on fossil fuels.
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Governments in India and in China, home to almost three billion people combined, want to satisfy a growing need for energy by burning more coal.
Both are pledging greater coal-fired power capacity and putting their net zero ambitions in doubt.
There will be no compromise in power needed for growth, India's minister for power, R.K. Singh, said last month, even if it means the addition of coal-based capacity.
In November, the United Nations production gap report revealed that, in all the coal projects currently planned around the world materialize, we will burn 460 percent more cold in 2030 than what would be consistent with limiting global warming to 1.5 degrees Celsius.
KATE LOGAN, ASSOCIATE DIRECTOR OF CLIMATE, ASIA SOCIETY POLICY INSTITUTE: This energy security issue has really spooked a lot of the local governments in China and prompted China to simply renege on that commitment to limit new coal-powered builds.
SUD (voice-over): China says it will be carbon neutral by 2060. India, by 2070.
But according to a report by the global energy monitor, China had 136 gigawatts of coal power and construction and over 255 gigawatts in earlier stages of development, while India had over 65 gigawatts in the pipeline.
HARJEET SINGH, HEAD OF GLOBAL POLITICAL STRATEGY, CLIMATE ACTION NETWORK: In order to understand India context in a much more nuanced manner than just looking at it as a large emitter, you should also look at its energy needs and its poverty levels, and its energy authority (ph).
SUD (voice-over): As both countries continue to develop and drag people out of poverty, the baseline power that coal provides remains attractive. But it's not all bad news.
LOGAN: In the near term, there are signals that China's actually very close to peaking its emissions, in part because China's also the world leader in adding new renewable power.
SUD (voice-over): China possesses more solar power capacity than all other countries combined, and good hit the peak emissions before the end of the decade. Well India could soon be producing 500 gigawatts of renewable energy by 2030, for more power than it currently produces.
SINGH: More than 80 percent of green (ph) finance in India is domestic. Which means that international partners have not made their role (ph). They'll only put pressure on India. So India is largely on its own.
SUD (voice-over): For both countries, coal capacity is the backup plan. The danger is that, if a coal power plant is built, there will always be pleasure to use it.
Vedika Sud, New Delhi. (END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: I'm John Vause. I'll be back at the top of the hour with more CNN NEWSROOM. But first, WORLD SPORT starts after a short break. See you back here in about 17 and a half minutes.
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