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Biden Fine-Tuning Attacks On Trump Away From Cameras; Trump Says He'll Only Be A Dictator On Day One; TX Supreme Court Temporarily Halts Woman's Emergency Abortion; Interview With Rep. Veronica Escobar (D-TX); UPenn President Resigns Amid Backlash Over Anti-Semitism Testimony. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired December 09, 2023 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:13]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington.

We begin this hour with perhaps the harshest warning yet from President Biden about his likely Republican rival for the White House. The president told a fundraiser in California late last night that Donald Trump would destroy American democracy if he somehow wins back the Oval Office. Biden said to the crowd, quote, "The greatest threat Trump poses is to our democracy."

The president went on to slam Trump's role in the January 6th attack on the U.S. Capitol, saying, quote, "It's despicable, simply despicable." Biden also referred to Trump's comments on FOX earlier this week when the former president was asked whether he wants to become an American dictator. Here is what Trump told FOX.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS HOST: Under no circumstances, you are promising America tonight, you would never abuse power as retribution against anybody.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Except for day one.

HANNITY: Except for?

TRUMP: He's going crazy. Except for day one.

HANNITY: Meaning?

TRUMP: I want to close the border, and I want to drill, drill, drill.

HANNITY: That's not -- that's not --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Now, if there was any doubt about what Trump meant, the host, Sean Hannity, gave him a few chances to step back from those extreme words, but Trump did not.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We love this guy. He says, you're not going a dictator, are you? I said, no, no, no. Other than day one. We're closing the border, and we're drilling, drilling, drilling. After that I'm not a dictator.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: As we've noted on this program for weeks, Trump has repeatedly promised to seek vengeance against his political enemies, praising the leaders of China and North Korea, and also promising to vastly expand presidential powers, leading to headlines like this, "The Atlantic" writing that Trump isn't bluffing and will follow through on his threats, including investigating the press for treason, mass roundups and detention centers for undocumented immigrants.

CNN's Kevin Liptak is live in Los Angeles for us as the president is in the midst of a weekend fundraising trip in California.

Kevin, I imagine the president's words must have gotten folks by surprise at that fundraiser. What more is he saying?

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, he is really ramping up these warnings about what President Trump might do if he returns to office. And certainly, they are very stark. Nothing less than the future of American democracy is at stake according to President Biden.

Now when it comes to that remark that Trump made about being a dictator, President Biden deployed some rueful humor saying thank God only one day but certainly later on really underscoring the potential for another Trump presidency is no laughing matter, telling these Democratic donors, literally, I believe the future of American democracy is at stake. The greatest threat Trump poses is to our democracy, because if we lost that, we lose everything.

And you really are starting to see President Biden really honing his attacks on Trump, fine-tuning his arguments at these fundraisers, these off-camera fundraisers, giving him a chance to sort of test some material, what will be a central argument of his re-election campaign next year. And certainly, there are some Democrats who want President Biden to be more forceful about President Trump, to make this argument publicly.

And when you talk to campaign aides, they do say that that moment is coming, that President Biden will begin to sharpen his rhetoric, but they want to wait until they're sure that Americans are paying attention. They don't want this falling on deaf ears. And you can imagine that these arguments will make their way into television ads, digital ads, of course, that will cost a lot of money, and that is why President Biden is out here in Los Angeles this weekend, raising money at two important fundraisers, one last night with some Hollywood heavyweights.

You know, I was talking to Jeffrey Katzenberg, he's the co-chair of the Biden campaign, a movie mogul. He said this 36 hours will be the most successful when it comes to campaign fundraising for President Biden since he launched his campaign in the spring -- Jim.

ACOSTA: Yes, and Kevin, I mean, what do the Biden folks saying about Trump's comments not really having much of an impact on the polls? There's a new poll out today that shows that the president has a bit of a climb to get re-elected right now.

LIPTAK: Yes, it all underscores this kind of headwinds that President Biden is facing. This "Wall Street Journal" poll sort of reflective of a lot of other nationwide polls that show Trump and Biden either neck and neck or Trump with a slight edge. This one showing 47 percent of Americans support Trump, 43 percent support Biden. So certainly the president facing some serious challenges when it comes to his re- election, not helped by the fact that his son Hunter is in these legal predicament, those charges on tax crimes being unveiled last week.

When you talk to President Biden's aides, they don't necessarily think that voters will make their decision next year based on what Hunter Biden is doing.

[16:05:01]

But certainly this is a political headache for President Biden, it's a personal weight that is dragging on him, and certainly, when you talk to White House officials, they do say that this will be an ongoing matter for the President Biden to deal with over the coming year, as he prepares for this re-election fight -- Jim.

ACOSTA: All right, Kevin Liptak reporting from L.A. for us. Kevin, thank you very much.

Let's continue the conversation right now. Joining me now is the niece of former President Trump, Mary Trump.

Mary, great to have you back on the program. Really appreciate your time. You heard what the president was saying last night at this fundraiser in California, seizing on what Donald Trump has been talking about recently, and I just wanted to get your reaction to what Trump was saying on FOX the other night. A dictator, but only on day one. What was your reaction when you heard that?

MARY TRUMP, NIECE OF FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP: Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me, it's great to be back.

ACOSTA: Yes.

M. TRUMP: We need to take Donald at his word to a certain point. We can ignore the second half of that statement. Dictators last I check don't stop being dictators. And he has every intention of destroying American democracy, and we need to be clear why. It's entirely for his own benefit. Nothing about this is ideological. So, in that context, it was really heartening to hear President Biden be so direct about what's facing this country.

I agree that it is too early to assume that people are paying attention, and we don't want that argument to get normalized, which has been part of the problem the last seven years, almost everything Donald does seems to be normalized, but we've seen what he's done in the past, and I think what he's starting to do now is push the envelope and get people familiar with the concept of his dictatorial tendencies so that they just write it off the way they've written off all of his other egregious anti-democratic behaviors.

ACOSTA: Yes, I mean, that leads me to this question, Mary, and that is, I mean, do you think Trump would stop on day one? I mean, to say he would only be a dictator on the first day, I suppose if you're a dictator on the first day, you can say, well, tomorrow I'll be dictator, too. Because you're the dictator at that point. I mean, what do you think? Does he stop on day one?

M. TRUMP: Every day from then on will be day one. Let's put it that way. He has no intention of stopping. He knows why he needs to get back into the White House. Those reasons won't disappear on a day two or day 100. So, we have to take this threat incredibly seriously and part of that threat isn't just Donald's rhetoric, it's the reception that rhetoric receives. We heard the laughing and the cheering in that audience.

We hear what his sycophants and enablers like Sean Hannity and like practically every single elected member in Congress who is a Republican is willing to put up with, is willing to allow, and is willing to support.

ACOSTA: And Mary, I mean, I'm sure you've been paying attention to all of this, too. I mean, Trump and his aides have been giving us a sneak preview into what he is planning if he's put back into the White House, including mass deportations, Muslim ban, mass firings in the federal government, going after the press, and so on. What do you think a second Trump term would look like?

M. TRUMP: Quite simply, and not at all hyperbolically, it would be the end of American democracy. America would become a leading autocratic nation in the world, and we would be, therefore, emboldening countries like some of those you mentioned earlier, North Korea, China, but also the pro-autocratic tendencies of countries that haven't entirely lost their way, but are well on their way to, like Hungary and Turkey.

So it would be absolutely disastrous not just for the future of American democracy, but the future of the Western alliance and global liberal democracies, so I don't think we can overstate just how incredibly dangerous a second Trump administration would be, and we need to start preparing the ground for making those arguments now.

ACOSTA: And Mary, I know that you have spent some time trying to think about what's going on inside your uncle's head, as difficult as that might be, but when he uses language like vermin to talk about his political opponents, I was wondering what you thought of that.

M. TRUMP: Well, it's all of a piece with how he's always behaved. The difference now, of course, is that he -- his target audience is just getting bigger and bigger. And the amount of power he has is increasing.

[16:10:05] I mean, Jim, if you had told me in December of 2020 that things would be worse now than they were then, or that Donald would have more power now than he had then, I wouldn't have believed you because it was just utterly unthinkable. So look where we are. He uses that kind of rhetoric because he knows it plays with his base, but he also uses it because he doesn't care about other human beings.

And we cannot afford to continue to place people like that in power because the stakes are just too high, and the consequences would just be too devastating.

ACOSTA: And I'm sure you saw this, Axios was reporting earlier this week that Trump is likely to elevate, you know, some of his key loyalists, put them back in the administration, people like Steve Miller, Steve Bannon, Kash Patel, potentially putting some of those folks in Cabinet positions. And they're parroting Trump's anti- democratic rhetoric. I want to play a little bit of this for you, get you to respond.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KASH PATEL, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF TO ACTING SECRETARY OF DEFENSE IN TRUMP ADMINISTRATION: We will go out and find the conspirators not just in government, but in the media. Yes, we're going to come after the people in the media who lied about American citizens, who helped Joe Biden rigged presidential elections. We're going to come after you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Mary, do you think these are empty threats, Kash Patel talking about we're going to go after the media?

M. TRUMP: No, not at all. I mean, Donald has been promising to do that for years, if not decades. Any time anybody in the media slightly criticizes him or isn't willing to tow his line, he's threatened him. The difference now of course it would come with power to enact those kinds of threats. But also, they've learned a lot. And we can't forget that. These people made a dry run for an insurrection. It didn't quite succeed on January 6th, but it's still unfolding. We don't yet know if the attempted insurrection that started on January 6th or, I should say, a few months leading up to January 6th.

We don't yet know if it's been successful. So we can't pretend that this is -- these are empty words and empty threats. But we cannot put anything past these people. Donald Trump and everybody he surrounds him with, including fascists like Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon, are willing to do anything they have to do or feel they have to do in order to stay in power no matter how illegitimately they seize that power.

ACOSTA: And what did you think when you saw the "Wall Street Journal" poll that came out today? Our Kevin Liptak is talking about a few moments ago, and Trump ahead of Biden at this point. Yes, it's only four percentage points. Yes, we're weighing out in front of the general election next year. Polls can go up, polls can go down, and so on.

But the staying power of your uncle in all of this, after everything that he said, talking about being a dictator and so on, on day one, does that surprise you?

M. TRUMP: It doesn't surprise me, and I think sort of one of the tag lines of Donald's ascendance in American politics is it doesn't surprise me, that doesn't mean it isn't shocking. It's shocking, it's demoralizing, and it's a pretty devastating commentary on a significant portion of the American electorate. And I think part of what we need to do and part of the reason, I think, that President Biden's statements about Donald's attacks on democracy are so important is because we need to start educating people about what it would mean if we lost democracy.

And I think right now not enough people understand what is at risk here, and, you know, I try to comfort myself by repeating that it's many, many months out, but it is a little bit hard to square the fact that people seem more concerned about Hunter Biden's indictments than Donald's much more serious indictments and charges.

ACOSTA: Yes, Mary, I do want to take a break in just a moment, but did you think Trump would still be on the political scene at this point? Like when he left office in 2021, did you think, OK, that's it, he's done, no more of this? Did you expect him to be on the political scene the way he is right now, running to get back in the White House and having a very decent shot at it?

M. TRUMP: I think for maybe two weeks after the 2020 election was called I sort of let my guard down, but then as soon as the big lie started gaining steam and other people, including pretty much the entirety of the Republican Party started perpetuating it, and then, of course, January 6th, I knew that this would -- I knew we would come to a place like this because Donald has too much at stake in terms of whether he goes to prison or becomes bankrupt and he has too many people helping him, so why wouldn't he try to get into the White House again?

[16:15:04]

ACOSTA: Right. All right. Mary, if you don't mind, stay with us. We do need to sneak in a quick break. We'll talk to you about it on the other side, some of his legal problems that he's been going through. We'll get to that in just a moment. Stay with us. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: The documents that this horrendous attorney general put forth, and he found absolutely no fraud, accounting fraud of any kind. This is a highly respected man, I don't know him, but he's an expert witness, and he found no fraud whatsoever. He found no accounting fraud whatsoever.

[16:20:04] And like everyone else, he said, what are we doing here? What are we doing here? This is a political witch hunt.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: And we're back with Mary Trump to talk about her uncle's legal problems that he's in the middle of right now.

Mary, I did want to bump in from our commercial break with that audio because you hear your uncle there talking about this civil fraud trial that's under way in New York. He's expected to testify on Monday. He's been sort of repeating the same excuses over and over again, saying that the banks weren't cheated, the banks were very happy with what he's done, and how his businesses are great and so on.

But at the heart of this case is how he and his company are accused of inflating the value of various assets in his empire. His business empire, his real estate empire. I'm just curious what you think about this, Mary? I mean, how important is all of this to him? And, I mean, what do you think about the very real possibility that, you know, his businesses could just go up, you know, in smoke depending on what this judge decides to do?

M. TRUMP: Well, first of all, what Donald does not seem to understand, his expert witness notwithstanding, is that as far I'm aware -- I'm not a lawyer, but as far as I'm aware, the matter of whether or not fraud was committed has already been adjudicated by the judge.

ACOSTA: Right.

M. TRUMP: And he's the only one whose opinion matters here. But because this is so important to Donald, he's going to keep pushing that narrative, in fact, I think we can say safely that there is literally nothing more important to him, certainly in terms of his legal woes, than this civil trial in New York, because it gets at the heart of everything he's pretended he was for his entire life. A loss here, despite the serious financial implications, which are, of course, extraordinarily important to him, but a loss would also mean that it has finally been proven, if not to him, at least to many other people, that he is not now and never has been anything he's claimed to be.

He's not a business savant, he's not a brilliant entrepreneur, or a phenomenally successful real estate developer. He's a fraud who was enabled by my grandfather for his entire adult life, who essentially will be known as the one person most responsible for squandering his father's very real empire, which Donald has absolutely nothing to do with building.

ACOSTA: And Mary, I'm sure you've been following this, as we have as well, but all through these trials and the process of these court cases that are on the horizon for Trump when it comes to January 6th, whether it's the federal case, the one down in Georgia, the documents case, one of the -- I mean, one of the through-lines is all of this is how Trump has been going after judges and prosecutors and the special counsel, and he's even talked about the clerk in the New York civil fraud trial.

What is going on there? What -- I mean, what are your thoughts on all of that? I mean, is this -- this is just who he is, this is what he does.

M. TRUMP: It's who he is and it's what he does, but we also need to be very clear. The reason he gets away with it and continues to do it is because he's allowed to. Nobody else, nobody else in his position would be allowed to continue attacking people, endangering lives of people, and he has actual power. You know, if an average person on the street was in this kind of legal jeopardy and started attacking court officers, they don't have millions of people hanging on their every word.

We have court officers and prosecutors and families getting very serious death threats because of Donald's rhetoric. I mean, at this point, we need to be very concerned about stochastic terrorism, and yet nobody is willing to rein him in. And I believe part of that must be because they want to preserve the case -- sorry, protect the case from his inevitable appeal. But it's still incredibly galling that he is allowed to behave this way because it is so dangerous, and it just shows you what a double standard there is when it comes to justice in this country.

ACOSTA: At the end of the day, Mary, what do you think happens? What -- I know it's hard to predict things this far out and your uncle, despite what folks might want to say about him, he has defied predictions over and over again.

[16:25:05]

How does -- how does this country weather this storm? Does it weather this storm? Or does Trump get back into the White House and win and make these cases go away? What do you think happens?

M. TRUMP: Well, I think it is almost certainly inevitable that he will be the Republican nominee, barring unforeseen circumstances, so, you know, it will be a contest again between President Biden and Donald Trump. So given that, I think it's going to depend in part on the legal calendar. You know, when he has to show up, when -- which trials are going forward. But I think at the end of the day, unfortunately, too much time was allowed to pass, too much has been allowed to get normalized, too many lies have been injected into the bloodstream of the American voter, so way too many people think that Joe Biden didn't win legitimately, way too many people don't take January 6th seriously anymore.

So we have a lot of work to do. One, educating people, and two, just kind of getting to the basic work of protecting democracy and helping people understand just how unbelievable it is that we're even at this place. The idea that somebody like Donald Trump got elected once is bad enough, but the idea that he could be elected again is something that no American should want and I think we need to make the case that this would be bad for all Americans, except those Americans that Donald chooses to enrich and empower with a second administration. I think also, though, we need to be very honest about one of the

biggest reasons we're here. This is -- this has been decades in the making, between gerrymandering and voter suppression and voter subversion, you know, Democrats have to outperform Republicans in very significant ways, and that cannot continue. It is unsustainable that every election in our lifetime be the most important election in our lifetime.

It is unsustainable that every election is a choice between saving American democracy or falling into an autocracy. So hopefully we can get that message out because Donald is good at very few things. One of them, though, is finding weaknesses in the system and weaknesses in people, and he will exploit those to the fullest extent that he can.

ACOSTA: All right. Mary Trump, it was great to talk to you. Thanks for giving us a little extra time in your day today. We'd love to have you back soon, but in the meantime, thanks very much. We appreciate it.

M. TRUMP: Thank you, Jim.

ACOSTA: All right. And coming up, a developing story out of Texas, where the state's highest court is now blocking a woman's fight to receive an emergency abortion. We'll discuss that next.

And we're following breaking news. The National Weather Service confirms a tornado has been spotted in Western Tennessee. We'll bring you the latest on that just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:32:32]

ACOSTA: The Texas Supreme Court is now blocking 31-year-old pregnant mother, Kate Cox, from getting the abortion her doctors say she urgently needs.

The decision comes just a day after a lower court judge approved the procedure despite the state's near-total abortion ban.

CNN's Camila Bernal is following the story for us.

Camila, what can you tell us?

CAMILA BERNAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Jim. So, Kate Cox is 20 weeks pregnant, so time here is really important.

And she says that her doctors diagnosed her fetus with a fatal genetic condition. So she says the complications from her pregnancy have been very difficult, and are putting her health at risk, but also her reproductive health at risk in the future.

And so that is why Kate Cox decided to sue the state of Texas, asking and seeking a legal abortion in the state. A Texas judge granted that and essentially allowed her to get that legal abortion.

And it was huge for the state of Texas, especially when it comes to the debate over medical exemptions. This is a debate in the state, and it is a state with some of the most restrictive abortion laws in the country.

And so the state's attorney general, Ken Paxton, disagreed with the judge's ruling, so he asked the Supreme Court in the state to interfere here.

And that's exactly what the Texas Supreme Court did, putting a temporary block, essentially freezing the lower court's decision and saying that this case is now pending.

Now, they did not specify a timeframe here. But again, she's 20 weeks pregnant so time really matters for her at the moment. Her attorneys saying this is an emergency, a medical emergency that needs to be addressed.

And even said, in a statement, you know, that's why people shouldn't beg for health care in a court of law. She said, they're still hopeful.

But the attorney general, what he is arguing is that she did not prove why her life is at risk or why this is life-threatening for her.

But again, in her lawsuit, she says that she's had multiple emergencies, has gone to the emergency room throughout her pregnancy, and she says her baby will die once it is born in just a few days.

And so she wants to prevent this. And she also says this is threatening her life and her fertility -- Jim?

ACOSTA: All right, Camila Bernal, thank you very much.

And I'll be talking with an attorney for Kate Cox a little later in this program so stay tuned for that.

In the meantime, let's discuss more on this with Democratic Congresswoman Veronica Escobar from Texas. She's the deputy whip of the Progressive Congressional Caucus. She's a co-chair of President Biden's re-election campaign.

[16:35:10]

Congresswoman, thank you very much for being with us.

What is your reaction to what the Texas Supreme Court is doing?

REP. VERONICA ESCOBAR (D-TX): Well, Jim, thank you so much for focusing on this issue.

Which really is a life-or-death issue for women in Texas, in Kentucky, and a number of other Republican-run states, where abortion and health care, reproductive health care for women is essentially banned unless a woman goes and begs for her life before a judge.

And even then, that's -- we are seeing Texas. Women's future and women's reproductive futures are really what is going to be decided by a very conservative Supreme Court.

But bigger than just what's happening in Texas, Jim, this really should provide a significant wakeup call for women and for Americans who want to have reproductive freedom in our country.

And we have -- (AUDIO PROBLEM) -- want for women. And they're not going to stop just at states like Texas, Kentucky, elsewhere. Republicans want a national ban.

And thankfully, we have a president and a vice president today in the White House wanting to protect us. But this is a wakeup call for 2024, as well.

ACOSTA: Well, that leads me to this question, Congresswoman, and that is, should the Department of Justice get involved? Is there anything the administration, the Biden administration can do?

ESCOBAR: The Biden administration, both the president and the vice president, have been very clear on this issue. And they stand with protecting the freedoms for American women, including reproductive freedom.

And it is my hope that the Department of Justice does something around this issue.

But we also have to think about the future, and future elections, because elections matter. And there will only be one candidate, one team on the ballot next November for the White House that will protect women.

But, yes, in the meantime, it is my hope that the White House continues to exert its influence and its pressure.

I hope that the Department of Justice is watching carefully as women's rights are being ripped away from them in Texas.

ACOSTA: And I do want to talk to you, because we often talk about border issues when you come on the program, Congresswoman. I want to talk about this impasse in Congress getting aid to Ukraine and Israel.

Republicans insist they want to pair the aid with changes to immigration policy in the U.S. The president has said he's willing to make some significant compromises to get something passed.

What is your -- what are your thoughts in terms of where things stand right now? What do you think needs to get done on that?

ESCOBAR: This is a really dangerous moment, Jim. Ukraine is really depending on its strongest ally to come through. And we have Republicans in Congress today who are basically willing to hand over Ukraine to Putin unless Democrats cave and give into some of their most extreme proposals.

And I have to say, Jim, no one wants solutions on immigration and border policy more those of us who live and work on the U.S./Mexico border. We know the system is broken, we know we have to reform our laws and policies. This is not the way to do it.

It's important to work in a bipartisan manner, in fact, in a bicameral manner, the House and the Senate together, to solve some of those long-standing issues. But holding Ukraine's aid hostage is not the way to do it.

And ultimately, there is a greater price to pay if Republicans continue down this path. And we could be basically handing Ukraine over to Putin if they don't just pass the president's supplemental.

ACOSTA: And just finally, Congresswoman, I did want to ask you a little bit about the 2024 campaign. There's a new "Wall Street Journal" poll out that shows the president trailing former President Donald Trump. It show as tight race at this point. It's 47/43 for the former president.

And we heard the president last night at this fundraiser in California really go after Trump, talking about how Trump would destroy democracy if he gets back into the White House.

And I know the president is also dealing with the headache and the headlines of his son, Hunter Biden, being hit with these new tax charges.

How do you think the president needs to be responding to all of that moving forward, do you think?

ESCOBAR: Well, I'm proud of President Biden's leaning in on going after Donald Trump, because it appears that Donald Trump -- there's nothing that's going to stop him from being the Republican nominee.

[16:40:05]

Not his 90-plus indictments, not the fact that a judge has identified him as a rapist, not the fact that he's acknowledged that he's willing to be a dictator and throw our democracy away for his own personal gain.

He is probably going to be the Republican nominee.

This contest next November is a real test for democracy, for our freedoms, for women, for democracy not just at home, but abroad, as well.

And the president is -- you are seeing him now really lay out very specifically what's at stake with Donald Trump. And it is -- the stakes could not be higher.

And we cannot afford for anyone to stay home next November. We cannot afford for anyone to vote for some third-party ticket. We -- this is a choice between preserving democracy or throwing it away. Preserving our freedoms or throwing them away.

ACOSTA: I know the president has a close relationship with his son, Hunter Biden. Do you think we'll hear the president talk about that? ESCOBAR: You know, I'm not sure. We have seen the president express

his profound love for his son. Any parent knows that the love that you have for your child is immeasurable.

And the president has never abandoned his son. No parent should abandon their child.

But the -- the president's relationship with his son and his love for his son is something wholly separate from the stakes that exist for us in America, in the 2024 election.

ACOSTA: All right, Congresswoman Veronica Escobar, thank you for your time this afternoon. We appreciate it.

All right, we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:46:06]

ACOSTA: Some breaking news right now. The president of the University of Pennsylvania has resigned. This comes after her testimony earlier this week before Congress about anti-Semitism on campus.

Our Polo Sandoval is live with us with more.

Polo, I understand there's a statement from the Penn board. I'm seeing it on their Web site right now, saying that President Liz Magill has voluntarily tendered her resignation.

What more can you tell us?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, Jim, several members in that community had been waiting on the board to make a decision amid that mounting criticism, and now, this development on this Saturday evening, that the president at UPenn will be voluntarily stepping down.

As we try to get you the statement that was just released from university officials a few moments ago so that you can see for yourself what the head of that board has shared with the university community.

Basically, just saying that she has voluntarily tendered her resignation as president of the University of Pennsylvania.

Interesting here, they say that she will remain a tenured faculty member at Penn.

And then that statement goes on to say -- in fact, I'll read a portion of it here, directly coming from Magill herself.

As she writes, "It has been my privilege to serve as president of this remarkable institution. It has been an honor to work with our faculty, students, staff, alumni, and community members to advance Penn's vital mission." In terms of what Scott Bach, the Penn chair of the Board of Trustees,

is saying to CNN in a statement, he says he's also extending gratitude towards Magill for her service to the community.

And that in the coming days, that the board will be in touch in terms of what the interim leadership plan will be for this university.

And of course, the back story here, for the last, nearly a week, there's been a mounting criticism against the president not just at UPenn but also president of MIT and also at Harvard.

It was just yesterday that in the "Harvard Crimson," the president issued an apology in a statement saying, "Words matter."

Interesting to see what happens at the other two institutions that have been discussed.

But for now, again, we can confirm, per a statement released by UPenn, that the head of the university, President Liz Magill, has voluntarily chosen to step down from her seat.

ACOSTA: Yes. And, Polo, we saw the testimony that she delivered up on Capitol Hill about anti-Semitism on campus at the University of Pennsylvania, it was widely criticized.

I believe we have some of that sound. Let's play it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ELISE STEFANIK (R-NY): Specifically calling for the genocide of Jews, does that constitute bullying or harassment?

LIZ MAGILL, FORMER PRESIDENT, UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA: If it is directed and severe or pervasive, it is harassment.

STEFANIK: So the answer is yes?

MAGILL: It is a context-dependent decision, Congresswoman.

STEFANIK: It is a context-dependent decision? That's your testimony today? Calling for the genocide for Jews is dependent upon on the context?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: And, of course, Polo, after that, Magill put out a video that we've seen, where Magill essentially said she was trying a little too hard, just paraphrasing here, to err on the side of protecting free speech as opposed to really definitively slamming and slapping down the idea of genocide and anti-Semitism.

We have a little bit of that sound. Let's play that, as well, just to walk our viewers through what's occurred.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MAGILL: In that moment, I was focused on our university's long- standing policies aligned with the U.S. Constitution that say speech alone is not punishable.

I was not focused on, but I should have been, the irrefutable fact that a call for genocide of Jewish people is a call for some of the most terrible violence human beings can perpetrate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[16:50:10]

ACOSTA: So obviously, Polo, this really was building momentum, it was snowballing and it came to a head.

And I think our Athena Jones reported in the last 24 hours that there was some mounting pressure within the Board of Trustees at Penn potentially to ask President Magill to down.

But it sounds as though this statement certainly won't come as surprise to the Penn community and to academia across the United States. As there was mounting pressure for Magill to step down. Apparently, that has happened this afternoon.

Polo, we'll catch up with you in a little bit.

Let's take a quick break. We'll be right back with more news on the other side. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:55:19]

ACOSTA: The breaking news right now, the president of the University of Pennsylvania has resigned. This comes after her testimony earlier this week before Congress about anti-Semitism on campus.

Our Polo Sandoval is back with us.

Polo, help update viewers.

SANDOVAL: Yes. This is a release just issued by UPenn a short while ago confirming that the head of that institution, that she will be stepping down from her position.

This certainly comes amid that growing criticism that they did not -- that she, along with the heads of two other universities, did not explicitly say calling for genocide of Jews would violate codes of conduct.

Since then, in the last few days, we've seen this mounting criticism and asking for her to step down. And now Liz Magill now tendering her resignation to the school board.

The board then going on to say that in the coming days, perhaps, an announcement will be made in terms of the interim leadership. But it really is just a remarkable moment here, Jim, as you were saying just before the break, at just how fast this developed and really unraveled, in some cases, and the amount of criticism that we have heard even from state officials.

The governor himself in Pennsylvania also really asking for officials to take a closer look, and for her, for Magill to reconsider her position at the university.

ACOSTA: Yes. And the donor community has been howling as well.

All right, Polo.

We're going to take another quick break. On the other side of the break, we'll be at the top of the hour, and we're going to update you on all of this. Stay with us. Much more. The president of UPenn University has resigned.

We'll be right back.

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