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Six Dead, Dozens Hurt After Tornadoes Hit Tennessee; Trump Expected To Testify Again In Civil Fraud Trial Tomorrow; Trump Defends His "I Want To Be A Dictator For One Day" Comments; Intense Fighting In Gaza As IDF Expands Into Khan Younis; IDF Directs Most Of Khan Younis Residents To Evacuate; Border Impasse Threatens U.S. Aid To Ukraine & Israel; UPenn President Liz Magill Steps Down After Controversial Testimony; Dollar General Is The Latest To Backtrack On Self-Checkout. Aired 2-3p ET

Aired December 10, 2023 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:00:41]

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm Fredricka Whitfield in New York.

The deadly storm system that shredded northern Tennessee is bearing down on millions of Americans on the East Coast. It spawned a tornado Saturday afternoon that killed six people including three in the Clarksville area, one of them a child. Witnesses appear to be just yards away when they recorded the monster twister crossing a street.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my God.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: How did they remain so calm? Nearly 50 miles away, emergency officials say a suspected tornado killed another three people in Madison, just north of Nashville. Reportedly, a 2-year-old child is among the dead. The governor of Tennessee has declared a state of emergency as rescuers search for survivors today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF WILLIAM SWANN, NASHVILLE FIRE: We hope the death toll doesn't rise. As of right now, we don't have anything and we hope we don't. But we are still in the recovery stage right now and making assessments.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: CNN meteorologist Elisa Raffa is tracking the system from the severe weather center. But first, let's go to Madison, Tennessee where CNN's Rafael Romo is. Rafael, what is happening right now?

RAFAEL ROMO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Fred, many homes here in the Madison neighborhood in north Nashville are a total loss as you can imagine. And downed power lines and trees like this one behind me are everywhere.

And let me show you what happened to one of the houses here in this neighborhood. As you can see, up on the second floor, all the walls were blown off by the tornado. You can see the bed there, Fred, you can see what used to be a bedroom. That gives you an idea how dangerous this was.

And you mentioned before, Governor Bill Lee has declared a state of emergency and it is easy to see why here where we are.

Let me tell you, three people died here, including a child; about 70 miles northwest of here in Clarksville, another three people died including a minor.

And I had an opportunity to talk earlier with a gentleman in this community who told me that him and his wife were watching the forecast when all of a sudden they realized that they were in danger. They ran to their kitchen. The only room in their entire house without windows and that was a decision that ended up saving their lives. This is how he said it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GREGORY CHANCE, TORNADO SURVIVOR: What I remember is we got into our safe place. The next thing I know, all you hear is stuff started flying and glass was breaking. And it seemed like it lasted forever, but it was probably maybe 30 seconds.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMO: And as you can see behind me, the clean-up effort has already started, a lot of people coming to help residents of this community to clean whatever they can.

We saw a gentleman trying to get a chainsaw started just a few moments ago, but the reality is that power is going to be a problem for the next few days.

There are still 26,000 customers without power here. And that's after 18,000 got their service back this morning. An official with the local power utility said that it is not going to be a matter of hours, but days before they can restore service to everybody here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TERESA BROYLES APLIN, NASHVILLE ELECTRIC SERVICE: We expect some of those outages to be prolonged and we will know more today as crews further assess the damage.

We don't have an estimated restoration time. But we do know that the outages in the Hendersonville area will be prolonged.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMO: There are still many dangers Fred here, not only power lines like this one, but also unstable structures. 22 structures collapsed.

There is also, according to police, many gas mains that have broken and that also pose a danger to people who live here.

[14:05:00]

Fred, back to you.

WHITFIELD: Oh, my gosh, yes. Just looking at that debris field behind you with those power lines down, it is the, you know, where do you begin on cleanup and assessing?

Thanks so much, Rafael Romo, we'll check back with you.

Elisa, tell us, now where is this deadly system, potentially still deadly system now and where is it going?

ELISA RAFFA, CNN WEATHER ANCHOR: It is still pushing its way east. We have new tornado watches in effect.

Here is a look at what is left behind, a little bit of a map, and you can see where the storms really blew up yesterday. So far we have 28 reported tornadoes and that number is climbing as they comb through the damage. They have to confirm those tornadoes on the ground, 73 reports there of hail.

Looking at the radar, you can see the showers stretching from New York down to the Big Bend of Florida. No active warnings right now, but you do have very intense rain and lightning in Florida.

We have two areas to watch today, the Big Bend of Florida here, tornado watch until 5:00. Another tornado watch until 8:00 this evening for eastern North Carolina, headed up to Virginia, including places like Raleigh where we could find additional spin-off tornadoes as we go through the afternoon and evening.

So putting this in motion, you could see showers and storms still fire up. You could see from Wilmington, up the Outer Banks into Norfolk, we could find some of these showers and storms rotating and we could find a few more tornadoes.

Some pinks showing up where we have cold that comes in behind it. That's going to blast some snow from the mid-Atlantic up into the northeast. So multi-hazard system with heavy rain going into New England. And some of that heavy snow in the interior New England for upstate New York and Vermont as well.

The flooding is becoming a big issue for the northeast. You see that little red bull's eye there, along the I-95 corridor from New York into Boston, some heavy rain threats today and again tomorrow.

Some of these rain totals could be up to two to four inches, some widespread flooding possible. And then the snow totals up to a foot possible in some locations. So multiple hazards for sure.

WHITFIELD: Yes, that's significant. All right, Elisa Raffa, thank you so much. And Rafael Romo in Tennessee for us.

All right. Tomorrow, here in New York, Donald Trump is expected to retake the witness stand in this civil fraud trial against him. New York attorney general Letitia James is suing Trump for $250 million and seeking to bar him from doing business in the state.

Trump's attorney told reporters that she tried to dissuade the former president from testifying again while he is under a gag order, but she says Trump insists on testifying.

CNN's Zach Cohen is joining us right now. Zach, what can we expect if Trump does indeed take the stand tomorrow?

ZACHARY COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Fred. I think Trump's own lawyers making it clear that we can expect to hear a lot of the same from Trump, both what we've heard from him inside and outside the courtroom.

In this trial specifically, this trial has been very personal for Trump. It is clear because it is in the state of New York, it deals -- the civil case involving his business, and also it involves his children and his family and himself, obviously.

And look, we have seen Trump attack the judge, the AG, you know, and court staff in this case repeatedly.

Take a listen to why Trump's lawyer says that he wants to take the stand, despite the advice of his own counsel.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALINA HABBA, TRUMP LAWYER: He still wants to take the stand even though my advice is at this point you should never take the stand with a gag order. But he is so firmly against what is happening in this court and so firmly for the old America that we know, not this America, that he will take that stand on Monday.

He will open himself up to whatever they want because he's not afraid. People that are afraid cower. President Trump doesn't cower. We'll be back on Monday.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COHEN: So again, a window into how this is personal for Trump, both, you know, because it deals with his business but also because it comes as he is ramping up for his presidential campaign. And he's used the courtroom as sort of a campaign stump.

He's used this phrase about a witch-hunt in all of the cases against him, civil and criminal, to really rally support behind his campaign.

And you know, this -- tomorrow's testimony, if we do see Trump take the stand, really will be sort of an example of how we can maybe expect him to act when he appears in the courtroom for his criminal cases throughout the next year.

WHITFIELD: All right. Zach Cohen, thanks so much.

Let's talk more now about this high stakes testimony. With me now, Neama Rahmani. He is a former federal prosecutor and the president of West Coast Trial Lawyers. Nima, great to see you again.

NEAMA RAHMANI, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Fred, thanks for having me.

WHITFIELD: So what do you make of Trump's decision to ignore his attorney's advice and take the witness stand tomorrow? What does he stand to either gain or clarify?

RAHMANI: Well Fred, we knew that Trump was going to take the stand again in the defense case. And there is still a lot at stake.

Even though he's already lost, Judge Engeron has ruled that the financial statements were fraudulent, there is still some outstanding claims related to the conspiracy and the insurance fraud that require intent. So he could dig himself a deeper hole.

RAHMANI: Of course, there is also the potential that he's going to try to get under Judge Engoron's skin, set that record for appeal, because the court of appeal in New York has been a little bit more favorable to the Trump family, of course, dismissing the claims against Ivanka and at least temporarily suspending the gag order.

[14:10:00]

And like Zach said, we know that Donald Trump is going to be speaking to the American people. He doesn't necessarily care about what happens in the courtroom, he's looking forward to next year's election.

WHITFIELD: So, he is the defense's final witness and he'll likely face very friendly questioning, right, from his attorneys, but then what about cross examination from the prosecutors? How will they try to take advantage of this moment?

RAHMANI: I think they will be very aggressive. Again, I agree, there is going to be softball questions from the defense. He's going to have to justify these valuations and he's going to be talking about the Trump brand. A lot of the same things that we have heard the experts and his sons testify that these are trophy properties.

So there is going to be a substantive defense, but I also expect to see some pretty aggressive attacks on the AG's office and potentially even the judge and his law clerk despite that gag order.

WHITFIELD: Ok. Well, you know, that gag order in place, prohibiting Trump from verbally attack the court staff, and we know we have seen it already, he can be a loose cannon.

You know, should his attorneys even be worried that he can't control himself, and I'm using the words of that judge a while back?

RAHMANI: Well, they should be worried. And Trump has violated his gag order at every possible step.

But the bigger question is, is the judge going to do anything about it? So far he's been all bark, no bite, and although there have been a $5,000 and $10,000 fine, that's not even a slap on the wrist for Donald Trump. That's pocket change.

So unless the judge is going to actually enforce that order, unless that order is going to have some teeth, it is not worth the paper that it is written on.

All right. So let's shift gears if we can, you know, to Trump's former attorney and New York's former mayor Rudy Giuliani, who is also in court tomorrow.

Giuliani is on trial to determine how much he will have to pay to Georgia election workers he lied about after the 2020 presidential race.

A federal judge chastised Giuliani last week for failing to attend a hearing to prepare for his defamation damages trial. So what are the stakes for Giuliani this week?

RAHMANI: Fred, the stakes are very high. But the case is actually eerily similar to Donald Trump's. Giuliani's already lost and it's just a question of damages. And like Alex Jones, I fully expect him to get hit with a seven or eight figure judgment.

But Giuliani is looking towards the court of appeals. He's not putting on a substantive defense in this case. He can't because Judge Howell said that he didn't contest the charges and more importantly, he didn't comply with his discovery obligations.

But I think Giuliani thinks that maybe if he gets to that D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals, maybe he'll win a First Amendment challenge and this whole defamation case will go away.

WHITFIELD: All right. Neama Rahmani, great to see you. Thanks so much. It is going to be an interesting week.

RAHMANI: Very. Thanks for having me, Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right.

Former president Trump defending his comments that he wants to be a dictator on day one of a new presidency. His reason why next.

Plus, new fighting on the streets of Gaza as the IDF goes after Hamas communication sites. We have the latest coming up.

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[14:17:45]

WHITFIELD: Former president Trump at an event last night defending his comments that if he were to be elected, he would be a dictator. Brushing aside attacks from President Biden that Trump is a threat to democracy. Trump last night tried to clarify what he said at that town hall last week and referenced "New York Times" chief White House correspondent Peter Baker.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He says, you're not going to be a dictator, are you? I said, no, no, no, other than day one. We're closing the border and we're drilling, drilling, drilling. After that, I'm not a dictator.

Baker today in "The New York Times", he said that I want to be a dictator. I didn't say that. I said I want to be a dictator for one day. But "The New York Times" said, and you know why I wanted to be a dictator, because I want a wall, right. I want a wall, and I want to drill, drill, drill.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right. I want to bring in former Republican Pennsylvania Congressman Charlie Dent.

Ok, so does that distinction soften the blow? Does it make it more appealing to be a dictator just for one day versus, you know, the headline that he wants to be a dictator, period?

CHARLIE DENT, FORMER REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN: No. It really doesn't soften much of anything. I think it's pretty clear, Fred that you know, Donald Trump through his actions, you know, has represented a threat to the constitutional order.

We need only look at January 6th where he did everything within his power to try to overturn the outcome of the 2020 election. Both after the election and right up through January 6th. We saw what he did and did not do.

So I think that's probably the biggest reason why many people are fearful that in the second Trump administration he will pack his team with all sorts of sycophants and grifters who will carry out, you know, unlawful orders to advance his agenda. That's why there is a concern about him becoming a dictator.

WHITFIELD: So, what does this do for the Republican Party as a whole for, you know, those who have either continued to support him or those who have said they don't want to see him, you know, in the White House one more time. But it seems as though in some shape or form, Republicans have to try to explain what Trump means, whether they think he was joking or whether they say, you know, he was, you know, signposting what a second White House for him would be like.

[14:20:00]

DENT: Well, I think some of them will say probably they think he's joking. I'm sure privately they're more worried, as they should be. Many of them do realize that Trump -- many House Republicans and congressional Republicans, Senate as well -- they realize Trump has been a real drag and a liability to their party.

He's cost them majorities in both the House and the Senate. He does not play well in suburban swing districts and swing states where Republicans need to excel. They all know that.

And that's why they don't want Donald Trump around. But Trump still has this stronghold on his base, on their base, which keeps them in line.

But they all know that if they want to win, Trump is holding them back. And that's why I ='ve been saying about my party, the party has to get serious about winning again.

I think Chris Christie has been making that case in the presidential race. Nikki Haley to a certain extent. But they need to be much more forceful.

WHITFIELD: So, among those who continue to kiss the ring, former house speaker Kevin McCarthy now, you know, coming out in strong support of Trump in an interview with CBS, but did have some advice for the former president as well. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): What President Trump needs to do in this campaign, it needs to be about rebuilding, restoring, renewing America. It can't be about revenge.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's talking about retribution, day in, day out.

MCCARTHY: He needs to stop that. He needs to stop that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: So clearly McCarthy you know, supports Trump, but he also has said that he hasn't endorsed anyone yet. Why do you suppose that he seems to be a bit reticent on, you know, on his support wholeheartedly for Trump, especially as he has announced that he's leaving his seat by the end of the year?

DENT: Well, I think McCarthy is right that Trump needs to stop this retribution and revenge tour. He's right about that.

But McCarthy was much more loyal to Donald Trump than Donald Trump was to Kevin McCarthy. Remember, Kevin McCarthy went down to Mar-a-Lago shortly after January 6th and helped Trump off the map when he was really in a bad place and many thought, including me, at that point, Trump could have been kept down, but McCarthy helped him.

And then in the most recent speaker election in the case of trying to remove Kevin McCarthy, I didn't see Donald Trump do anything to try to persuade those eight holdouts, you know, to vote with Kevin McCarthy.

So Trump's loyalty has really been much more of a one-way street, which is usually the case with Donald Trump. He expects loyalty, but then doesn't return that loyalty. So I'm not at all surprised that Kevin McCarthy is somewhat reticent to jump completely on the Trump train at this moment.

WHITFIELD: What do you think Kevin McCarthy's aspirations are at this point?

DENT: I haven't talked to him. So I don't know. But he's -- he's in the process right now --

WHITFIELD: What does he seem to be positioning himself for?

DENT: Well, he could be doing a few things. He could be looking at private sector opportunities and I'm sure the grass would be very green for him out there as a former speaker. I'm sure he can make a lot of money and do some things he wants to do.

Also, he might be positioning himself perhaps to have a position in a Trump administration should Trump win the White House or any Republican.

But I think it is still unclear. I suspect Kevin McCarthy is still trying to figure out. Many of these members don't make these decisions immediately, it takes some time to sort through various options that will be presented to a former speaker.

WHITFIELD: All right. We'll leave it there for now. Former Congressman Charlie Dent, great to see you.

DENT: Thanks, Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right. Strong words from the lead Senate Democrat negotiator trying to make a deal with Republicans on border security and aid funding for Israel and Ukraine. Why Senator Chris Murphy calls these talks one of the most dangerous moments that he has seen in American history.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:28:28]

WHITFIELD: Intense fighting today in southern Gaza as Israeli military forces battle Hamas militants in Khan Younis.

Gunfire heard on the streets of Khan Younis.

Israel Defense Forces are urging civilians there to evacuate to facilities on the coast. The IDF says they have struck more than 250 targets in the last day, including what it called Hamas military communication sites and tunnels in the Gaza strip.

And it comes as the Israeli prime minister's office now says there are 137 hostages who remain in Gaza, including 20 who are believed to be dead.

CNN's Alex Marquardt is monitoring the developments from Tel Aviv. Alex, what is the situation on the ground in Gaza as you know?

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well Fredricka, even as Israel says it has moved into a new phase with so much focus going on in the southern part of the Strip, it is clear that they do not have full control of the northern part of Gaza.

There's heavy fighting around the Jabalia refugee camp as well as the Susya (ph) area in northern Gaza. This is what the IDF has called strongholds of persistent resistance.

We did hear about air strikes in and around the Jabalia refugee camp from the Palestinian news agency Wafaa. They said that some 45 civilians were killed when there was an air strike on a house.

MARQUARDT: The IDF, they're not specifically talking about this incident and has said in the past that when there were reports of civilian casualties, that they had issued strong warnings for civilians to leave the northern part of the Strip early on in this conflict.

[14:30:06]

But so much of what we are seeing right now is this intense fighting around Khan Younis, the biggest city in southern Gaza, Fred. There were airstrikes that were seen today, artillery, gunfire like you just played, and, again, the Wafa news agency saying that dozens of people were killed, civilians were killed when homes were struck in the northern and the eastern parts of Khan Younis.

You and I talked about the evacuation orders that were given by the IDF on Saturday night for very specific parts of Khan Younis. It was an urgent appeal, Israel said, for civilians and residents to leave that area. It was all based on this very complicated map that Israel is hoping and assuming that civilians can read, just assuming they can actually get online and then understand that map.

What it when it comes to the numbers that really encapsulate this fighting, Fred, earlier today, Israel said they had struck some 250 targets, they call these terror targets, in the past nine days since the -- that pause ended, they have hit some 3,500. And then overall, since October 7th, and since this war was launched in response to those horrific attacks, 22,000 targets have been struck. Of course, Palestinians say that so many are not terror targets, they are schools, mosques, homes, and that only had civilians inside -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: And then, Alex, the U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken was on CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION" today condemning sexual violence committed by Hamas on October 7th. What else is the secretary saying?

MARQUARDT: Yeah, these reports of horrific sexual assault and rape are obviously much discussed here in Israel by the media and by officials. Secretary of State Antony Blinken telling our colleague Jake Tapper he doesn't know why other countries and international organizations haven't been talking about it more. Here is a little bit more of what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONY BLINKEN, SECRETARY OF STATE: Atrocities that we saw on October 7th are almost beyond human description or beyond our capacity to digest. And we have talked about them before, but the sexual violence that we saw on October 7th is beyond anything that I've seen either.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUARDT: And, Fred, you mentioned the hostages who are still being held, more than 20 of them are still believed for young women and Israeli and American officials have argued that Hamas may not want to release them because once they're freed, they will be able to tell stories of the atrocities that they have not only witnessed, but faced themselves -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: Alex Marquardt, thank you so much.

I want to bring in now CNN's Kevin Liptak who is traveling with President Biden in Los Angeles.

Kevin, there is a major fight in Washington over emergency funding for Israel and Ukraine. Congress seems to be at an impasse. What are you hearing today about the White House efforts?

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yeah. These two sides appear no closer to an agreement as we enter this critical week and, remember, Fredricka, President Biden has asked for this major $100 billion supplemental assistance package for Israel, Ukraine and also money for the border and Republicans have used that as leverage to try and put forward new rules, tough new rules on tightening immigration in the United States. The White House has argued and it warning that aid is quick running out for Ukraine. It could dry up by the end of the year and they warn that that could have dire effects on the battlefield in Ukraine if Ukraine isn't able to replenish its war chests.

But those warnings seems to be falling on deaf ears so far. They have not broken the logjam and this morning, we did hear from the Republican and the Democrat who are sort of leading these discussions on Capitol Hill, talking about their positions, but it did not appear as if they were making much progress.

Listen to some of what Chris Murphy, the Democrat, and James Lankford, the Republican said this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT): This is one of the most dangerous moments I've ever faced in American politics and I wish Republicans weren't holding Israel aid and aid to Ukraine hostage to the resolution of immigration reform.

MARGARET BRENNAN, CBS NEWS HOST: Can you get Ukraine aid past separate from this?

SEN. JAMES LANKFORD (R-OK): No, no. The focus is what you hear from so many people, why would we deal with other people's national security and ignore American national security. Why would we literally allow people to cross our southern border if this administration labels national security risks by the thousands coming into the country? Separate from the just migrants that are coming for employment, we have individuals, they have literally labeled national security risks coming into the country, why would we not work to be able to stop that?

[14:35:01]

We can do two things at once.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIPTAK: Now, President Biden said last week that he's open to significant compromise on this matter. But, bottom line, Fredricka, he's coming under pressure from both sides, from Republicans and some Democrats who want to do more to stop these migrant flows, but also from progressives and immigration advocates who are worried about how much he will agree to.

Now, Senator Murphy did say that the White House will become more engaged on these talks this week, but whether heavier presidential involvement can break the logjam remains very much to be seen.

WHITFIELD: All right. Kevin Liptak in Los Angeles, traveling with the president, thank you so much.

All right. Joining us right now is Israel Defense Forces spokesman, Lieutenant Colonel Jonathan Conricus.

Lieutenant Colonel, good to see you.

I wonder, how are you measuring success in this mission in Khan Younis?

LT. COL. JONATHAN CONRICUS, SPOKESMAN, ISRAEL DEFENSE FORCES: Thank you for having me on the show. That's a good question.

We are measuring it by the amount of enemy combatants that we're able to take off the battlefield, by the amount of enemy infrastructure, on rocket launchers and weapons stockpiles that we're able to find and take out of commission. And we are also measuring it based on the amount of Hamas terrorists and other affiliated that are surrendering to us.

We have made good progress so far, we understand this is far away from being done and concluded and Hamas unfortunately still has fighting power. They are firing rockets toward Israel. They are still holding (AUDIO GAP) hostages and it is still (AUDIO GAP) return security to Israelis living in southern Israel.

WHITFIELD: Okay. We're going to try and hang with this interview. The signal is pretty spotty and terrible. But I do want to follow up on what you just said. So how many enemy combatants or Hamas members do you believe you've been able to take out? CONRICUS: Yeah, so, we're -- sorry for the connection, it was okay

through testing, and we're keeping tabs on it, but we do not have an official number yet. This takes time to get out.

We have been successful in (AUDIO GAP) of the cease-fire that we have in order to release the hostages. We're talking about the high number of hundreds of confirmed enemy killed. We're also looking at the total picture. (AUDIO GAP) estimate as to that.

WHITFIELD: Okay. So, one of the latest figures Israel's national security adviser estimating that at least 7,000 Hamas terrorists have been killed in Gaza since October 7th. But, of course, that's disproportionate to the number of Palestinian civilians who have been killed. And the IDF has been warning people with this latest admission in Khan Younis to evacuate. The warnings have been coming in the form of the leaflets or QR codes and the maps, but given how unstable communications in Gaza have been, I mean, you know, you're not coming from Gaza and look at our communication, it is very spotty.

Are you certain that civilians are able to get the message and have a real chance of getting out of harm's way?

CONRICUS: Yes, we are (AUDIO GAP) in order to get that message out. But we really have to, you know, unfold the situation here. And when we speak about casualties -- if you look at Hamas videos, the same videos that they put out showing their combat activities against our troops, all of the Hamas guys that are fighting us, they're dressed in civilian clothes.

(AUDIO GAP) killed them, what you see if you don't look at the RPG rocket next to them or the AK-47 or the IED that he has with him, he looks like a civilian. And I think that is, you know, one thing, one component of how these figures are totally distorted. Another thing that is driving the numbers is heavy reliance is how Hamas is embedded, Hamas is, within the population and (AUDIO GAP) earlier talks you had with your (AUDIO GAP) schools and hospitals and mosques and all of -- and U.N. facilities, these are places where our troops as we have been advance having exposed in time and time again weapons and locations where Hamas used all of these facilities, schools, hospitals, mosques in order to fire against us.

[14:40:04]

And that's important to keep into context because I don't want the image to be out there that we are just attacking places at random.

We attack where there is enemy activity, where we are fired at from, or where we have intelligence that enemy is active from. And that is very important. And we do a lot in order to keep -- to get civilians out of harm's way, including, by the way, the risk to our troops. When we tell the civilians in advance that we're going to maneuver in a certain area, and we ask them to evacuate, that also, of course, is known to the enemy and there is certain exposure to our troops, something we're not happy about, but we understand that to be able to fight and beat the enemy (AUDIO GAP). WHITFIELD: Colonel, our signal is really awful. But I do want to at

least attempt one more question to you. And just as you mentioned, the risk to civilians as you pursue Hamas members, because they just simply blend in is what I think I heard from you, then there's also great risk for the 137 or whatever the most recent number is, because it sounds like you're not really sure how many more hostages there are alive.

But their lives are at risk, too, with these continued operations as you move further south. So, what is your calculus? Is there a feeling that this operation also further risks the lives of those who remain alive among those hostages?

CONRICUS: Yeah. Those 137 Israeli hostages that have been kept in Hamas captivity for 65 days now are at the very top of our priorities as a military, and as a country to get back home. And I don't -- I think after -- I think our operations on the ground creates (AUDIO GAP) with the enemy, it creates pressure on Hamas and they are very important in enhancing the chances of getting the hostages back, whether it will be through diplomacy or through military operations.

WHITFIELD: We'll leave it there. Thank you so much for hanging in there with us, with this signal. But that is --

CONRICUS: I'm sorry for the reception.

WHITFIELD: Well, no apology needed. That's just the way it is sometimes.

Colonel Jonathan Conricus, thank you so much.

CONRICUS: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:46:55]

WHITFIELD: The University of Pennsylvania will soon appoint an interim president following the resignation of President Liz Magill. She stepped down last night after facing backlash from her Capitol Hill testimony on antisemitism. Magill struggled to answer questions about whether calls for genocide against Jews would violate Penn's code of conduct.

Let's bring CNN correspondent Polo Sandoval who is in Philadelphia.

So, Polo, how long before a new president is appointed?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, one thing is for sure, Fred, is that students are going to begin their final exams in the coming days under new leadership at the University of Pennsylvania after that pair of resignations late yesterday evening.

Of course, as you mentioned, that includes Liz Magill, the now former president of UPenn who stepped down amid the mounting criticism of not just her, but presidents of Harvard and MIT during that disastrous congressional hearing just this past Tuesday in which the three of them failed to definitively say that calling for Jewish genocide would be against the university's codes of conduct. And so, the result, as you mentioned, is not only that resignation, but also of Scott Bok, who chaired the board of trustees here at UPenn.

Separately, just today, we did see Governor Josh Shapiro join both Jewish and non-Jewish leaders at a local synagogue, strongly condemning violence against all faiths and this, of course, coming after the recent spike in antisemitic incidents.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. JOSH SHAPIRO (D), PENNSYLVANIA: In whatever form, whether antisemitism, Islamophobia, racism, homophobia, it has no place here in Pennsylvania, in a place founded on the promise of William Penn, we will not tolerate it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANDOVAL: Some truly passionate words there. Meanwhile, let's go back to that controversy plaguing those three universities that we mentioned. We do understand now according to reporting from our colleague Matt Egan that governing boards at Harvard are expected to continue with their regularly scheduled meetings, this amid mounting criticisms of Claudine Gay, a Harvard president who has issued an apology on the Harvard Crimson.

So, of course, all eyes now on the governing bodies at Harvard and MIT to see if this controversy may result in changes there -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: And then, Polo, what is kind of the overall sentiment, you know, among the student body there at Penn?

SANDOVAL: Yeah, it's a good question. You know, since yesterday we have been hearing from students including one in particular who also serves as the vice president of the Jewish heritage program here at the university and he told our colleague Jim Acosta yesterday he felt that the resignation of Magill was, as he described it, a step toward accountability for an administration that he says has failed to assure the Jewish community here on campus to make them feel safe.

So, that gives you a sense of what at least some students feel on campus, many of whom have been calling for this resignation from the very start -- at least since last Tuesday.

[14:50:03]

And also some have been saying from the beginning here, Fred, it is more about just the performance of their now former president, this had been something that had been mounting for quite some time now.

WHITFIELD: OK. Polo Sandoval in Philadelphia, thank you so much.

And next hour, I'll speak to a university of Pennsylvania student to talk about how students and how he is reacting to the latest news.

All right, self service checkout machines are quite popular, but now it looks like a lot of workers are going to be back at the checkout counter to help get you out of the store. Why?

We'll be right back.

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[14:55:06]

WHITFIELD: All right. Dollar General is joining the crowd, the growing list of retail chains reversing course on self-checkout. The discount chain is reassigning workers to the front of the stores to ring up customers.

Nathaniel Meyersohn joining us now.

Why is this happening?

NATHANIEL MEYERSOHN, CNN BUSINESS REPORTER: Yeah, Fred, we're seeing more stores fire their self-checkouts bring back the old-fashioned human cashiers. Dollar General, Target, Costco, Walmart, they're all starting to rethink their self-checkout strategies. In the U.K., there was actually a British chain that removed all of its self-checkouts.

And the reason that we're seeing this is because we're seeing higher shoplifting at retail stores. And of course, it's much easier to steal from self-checkout than it is to go through a traditional cashier. And then you think about when you're checking out at self-checkout, all of the errors and misscans and you hear unexpected item in the bagging area and a worker has to come over.

So, there are just all of these different issues. The self-checkout stuff has not played out the way that retailers had hoped. They used it to try to reduce labor costs but it has completely backfired.

WHITFIELD: Okay, and then, let's talk about McDonald's, who is getting rather inventive. It's trying something new. Trying to launch, is it like a mini restaurant or a mini stand called CosMc's?

MEYERSOHN: CosMc's, that's the talk right now in the food industry, CosMc's. So, it's a completely different restaurant chain by McDonald's. It's not actually in the McDonald's restaurants.

They're going to launch this new brand. There you see it on your screen, CosMc's. It's kind of futuristic, and really focused on drinks. Iced teas, coffees, lemonades. It's like the stuff you would see at Starbucks. CosMc's is really McDonald's answer to the rise of Starbucks. Yeah, that looks like an appealing Frappucino.

WHITFIELD: Yeah, that that looks good.

MEYERSOHN: Yeah, some of these kind of Instagramable drinks. Stuff you would see on Instagram.

So McDonald's is really taking aim at this market. And look, if McDonald's were to completely overhaul its menu and its traditional restaurants, it would be kind of confusing to customers. So it's launching CosMc's.

WHITFIELD: Yeah. So, what about food with that stuff? Food with those lovely drinks?

MEYERSOHN: You can get, you'll be able to get a few different food items. Maybe not the traditional Big Mac, but snacks and McMuffins, that sort of stuff, the lighter stuff.

WHITFIELD: All right, trying new things. Got to do it.

Nathaniel Meyersohn, good to see you. Thanks so much.

All right. In this quick programming note, find out who will be the 2023 CNN Hero of the Year. Join Anderson Cooper and Laura Coates for a night of stars and celebration.

"CNN HEROES: ALL STAR TRIBUTE" begins tonight at 8:00 p.m. Eastern Time.

All right. The search goes on for survivors after a strong line of storms rips through Tennessee. We're live on the scene with the very latest.

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