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Qatar's PM: Israel And Hamas Not Showing "Same Willingness" To Negotiate Now As Before Truce; Zelenskyy To Visit U.S. With Aid Stalled In Congress; China, Philippines Trade Blame Over Maritime Incidents; COP28 Summit; Trump Changes Courses, Says He Won't Take Stand Monday; Israel Ready to Act Against Houthis; Children of Iranian Activist Accept Nobel Peace Prize on Her Behalf. Aired 1-2a ET
Aired December 11, 2023 - 01:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome, everyone. I'm Michael Holmes. Appreciate your company. Coming up on CNN Newsroom, more fighting in southern Gaza and Qatar's Prime Minister says, Israel and Hamas are not showing the same willingness now to resolve the war.
Tensions in the South China Sea as China and the Philippines accuse each other of dangerous maneuvers in their maritime operations. We're live in Beijing with the latest.
Plus, COP28 president says countries are making progress on a final agreement at the climate talks. But divisions remain around the future of fossil fuel.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Live from Atlanta. This is CNN Newsroom with Michael Holmes.
HOLMES: And we begin this hour in Gaza where Israeli forces and Hamas fighters are engaged in intense battles as Israel expands its operations in the south. The Palestinian news agency, Wafa, says dozens of civilians were killed in airstrikes, Sunday, across Gaza, including in the southern city of Khan Yunis. We want to warn you the next video does contain images that are disturbing. It shows wounded people being rushed into a hospital in Khan Yunis. According to Wafa, medical sources say those arriving for treatment are having to lay on the ground because there are no beds or medical supplies available. CNN's Alex Marquardt is following developments and has the latest from Tel Aviv.
ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: It is clear from fierce fighting that Israel is still battling to control much of northern Gaza. Israel is facing what they're calling strongholds of persistent resistance. We've seen fierce clashes between Hamas militants and Israeli soldiers, particularly in the Jabalia refugee camp, which on Sunday saw several airstrikes on a home. According to the Palestinian news agency, Wafa, several dozen civilians were killed inside that home and others were buried beneath the rubble. Now Israel is claiming to have killed some 7,000 Hamas militants since this war began. The Hamas controlled Ministry of Health in Gaza at the same time is saying that close to 18,000 people have been killed inside Gaza. Over the past few days, so much of the fighting and focus by Israel has been on the southern city of Khan Yunis, the biggest in southern Gaza. That is where Israeli officials believe that some top Hamas leaders may be.
And as Israel has pressed farther south, according to local news reports dozens of people were killed on Sunday, particularly in the northern and eastern parts of Khan Yunis. This comes after a warning on Saturday, an urgent appeal the IDF said for civilians and residents in Khan Yunis to leave certain areas and to flee towards the southwest where Israel says that there were established shelters.
Now it's unclear how many people would have gotten that message given the communication issues. And it is unclear what those established shelters exactly are. Now on Sunday, U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken said there continues to be what he calls a gap between Israel's intent to try to keep civilians safe. And what's really going on in the ground. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: I think the intent is there. But the results are not always manifesting themselves. And we see that both in terms of civilian protection and humanitarian assistance. Even as Israel has taken additional steps, for example, to designate safe areas in the south to focus on neighborhoods, not entire cities in terms of evacuating them, what we're not seeing sufficiently is a couple of things.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARQUARDT: Blinken went on to say that there needs to be better communication by Israel with both the humanitarian groups which he said are doing heroic work, as well as civilians about times, places and routes for when and where it will be safe for them to move.
Alex Marquardt, CNN, Tel Aviv.
HOLMES: And as the fighting between Israel and Hamas intensifies, the humanitarian crisis gets worse across Gaza. The World Health Organization chief says the impact of the war on the healthcare system is catastrophic. While the president and CEO of Save the Children says people in Gaza don't have what they need to just survive.
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JANTI SOERIPTO, PRESIDENT AND CEO, SAVE THE CHILDREN: Humanitarian organizations like ours, we're really running out of words to describe how bad it is. We work in crisis all over the world, from Afghanistan, to Sudan, to Ethiopia, to the Democratic Republic of Congo. So we are no strangers to war and conflict. But what is happening here is that there is -- there's 2 million people, a million children in a very, very small space. There is no way to get out. Nobody can flee, which is not the case in most of these other crises. And there's nothing coming in. And there's an absence of basic necessities.
[01:05:21]
So the siege that's put up on the people of Gaza is not -- a -- we cannot do it. There is no market of sorts to allow people to get access to food and water and anything they need. So we think that is a willful, you know --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's a choice.
SOERIPTO: It's a choice. It's a choice, and it's withholding aid from the population.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Will you stay working in Gaza? Can you?
SOERIPTO: We will, we have been there since 1953. We're not leaving now. We have 25 staff there. We won't leave. But at the moment, working for us in a safe and quality way is impossible.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: Israel says Hamas is likely still holding 137 hostages in Gaza, but 20 of them are believed to be dead already. Some of the hostages released by Hamas joined a Hanukkah gathering with displaced residents from the kibbutz Kfar Aza, a community devastated in the attack on October 7th. Mother and daughter Chen and Agam Goldstein- Almog spoke to the crowd saying they were thankful to be freed, but they still feel the pain of the remaining hostages.
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AGAM GOLDSTEIN-ALMOG, RELEASED ISRAELI HOSTAGE (through translator): It took us a lot of time to understand what happened when we weren't here. And all you did in order to get us home until we understand everything. We want to say a huge thank you. Thank you for returning us thank you for succeeded throughout all the pain and mourning to return us. We lost people who were so dear and everyone we knew and everyone we will remember forever. And there are people who are here who are so close and so far from us. They are our hope in this pain.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: The war in Gaza took center stage during the first day of an international forum in Doha. CNN's Becky Anderson moderated a panel with world leaders including the Qatari Prime Minister. He told her he's deeply disappointed by the failure to secure a new pause in the fighting but he's not giving up.
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN ANCHOR, CONNECT THE WORLD: Well, Israel has categorically ruled out a ceasefire and says its military operation will continue until it has destroyed Hamas and freed all of the hostages. Well, two months in and 137 hostages are still being held captive in Gaza, including Americans. And Israel is yet to come up with compelling evidence that it can execute on that goal of destroying Hamas and freeing the hostages without continued catastrophic loss of human life. Well, I spoke to the Qatari Prime Minister and FM earlier on today, of course, Qatar intimately involved at the heart of the mediation talks which affected a humanitarian truce, a weeks long truce, which allowed for the release of upwards of 100 hostages. That, of course, is now over and the Qatari Prime Minister told me that he is deeply disappointed that the two warring parties have not been able to come together to affect further negotiation, further freeing of hostages on the one side held in Gaza, and Palestinian prisoners held in Israeli prisons. But he did sound a tone of optimism, have a listen.
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MOHAMMED BIN ABDULRAHMAN BIN JASSIM AL THANI, QATARI PRIME MINISTER: For the way forward, we are going to continue. We are committed to have all the hostages being released. But also we are committed to stop this war and to stop the bombardment of the innocents, Palestinians. It always takes two parties to be willing to such an engagement. Unfortunately, we are not seeing the same willingness that we had seen in the weeks before.
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ANDERSON: While this region, the Gulf and the wider Middle East is absolutely determined. And you hear this echoed around this region, that it is an immediate ceasefire that is needed at present. Certainly the U.S. administration is very enthusiastic about trying to get a plan for what's known as the day after. The day the guns go silent, a plan about what a post conflict Gaza may look like.
I spoke to the Palestinian Prime Minister who was here with me in Qatar. And he has described talking to the Americans about a plan which could involve Hamas as a junior partner if Hamas signed up to the PA PLO platform. Well I asked Mohammad Shtayyeh whether it's realistic to suggest that Hamas be involved in governing Gaza going forward. And what any plan for the day after might look like. This is what he told me.
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MOHAMMAD SHTAYYEH, PALESTINIAN PRIME MINISTER: I think it's very important that we should all realize that Hamas is an integral part of the Palestinian political mosaic. And therefore for Israel to claim that they are going to eradicate, eliminate Hamas, I think this is something that is totally, it's first of all, it's not going to happen and totally is not acceptable to us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Alongside the Director General of the United Nations General Assembly, I was also joined on stage by Ayman Safadi, who is the Jordanian Foreign Minister, and all three regional leaders that I spoke to today said any plan going forward has to include a Palestinian horizon, must include a solution for the Palestinians, must include security, dignity, and self-defense as part of any conversation about where this region goes tomorrow.
Becky Anderson, CNN, Doha.
HOLMES: U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken spoke to CNN about the next steps in Gaza saying once the war is over, Israel and Gaza have to find, quote, durable sustainable peace. Here's what he told Jake Tapper on Sunday.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLINKEN: Of course, everyone wants to see this campaign come to a close as quickly as possible. But any country faced with what Israel is facing, a terrorist organization that attacked it in the most horrific way possible, on October 7th, and as I said, has said repeatedly that it would do it again and again and again. It has to get to the point where it is confident that that can't be repeated. But you make another point, that's very important. When the major military operation is over, this is not over because we have to have a durable, sustainable peace.
And we have to make sure that we're on the path to a durable and sustainable peace. From our perspective, I think from the perspective of many around the world, that has to lead to a Palestinian state. This is -- we're not going to have durable peace. We're not going to have durable security for Israel, unless and until Palestinian political aspirations are met.
And of course, what happens the day after in Gaza itself, once military operations major military operations over that's also usually important and urgent, to make sure that governance, security, reconstruction, all of that is in place so that there's no vacuum.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: Blinken also raised concerns about the ongoing war in Ukraine, urging the U.S. Congress to approve much needed aid, saying it is absolutely vital for Ukraine. But Republicans and Democrats can't agree on whether to include U.S. immigration policy changes to the emergency aid package.
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BLINKEN: In terms of what it would mean for Ukraine, what it would mean for Israel, what it would mean for our efforts to be competitive in the Indo Pacific, I think the only people who would be happy if the supplemental budget request is not voted on and approved by Congress, are sitting in Moscow, sitting in Tehran, sitting in Beijing. For Ukraine, this is absolutely vital.
They've made remarkable progress over the last year and pushing back Russian aggression, taking back more than 50 percent of the territory that was seized since February of 2022. But they're in a ferocious battle now in the south and the east. We are running out of funding for them. By the way, 90 percent of the assistance, the security assistance that we provided Ukraine is actually invested right here in the United States, to our companies, to our manufacturers. Similarly, we've had extraordinary burden sharing with our allies and partners, we've provided very significant assistance, about $70 billion over the last two years, our European friends and partners beyond Europe, more than $110 billion for Ukraine. So we have the burden sharing that we need. This is a time to really step up because if we don't, we know what happens. Putin will be able to move forward with impunity. And we know he won't stop in Ukraine.
And he may well end up going after a NATO country that would bring us in given our obligations to our NATO allies. So here, an ounce of prevention is really worth 10 pounds secure.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is set to visit Washington this week and he has a packed schedule for his trip. In addition to meeting with President Biden he's expected to go to Capitol Hill where aid for Ukraine is bogged down, as we said amid a debate over immigration policy. CNN's Kevin Liptak with the details.
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: President Zelenskyy's visit to Washington on Tuesday will come at a critical moment as lawmakers are working to come up with a package that would include new aid for Ukraine along with new rules on migration into the United States. And certainly the fact that President Biden invited Zelenskyy to visit Washington, tells you that the administration is looking for some kind of dramatic way to break the impasse on Capitol Hill.
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So while he is in D.C., he will meet with President Biden at the White House to discuss what President Biden's aides say is vital American support for Ukraine but he will also be on Capitol Hill. Zelenskyy will speak to all senators at a meeting in person and he will meet as well with the Republican House Speaker, Mike Johnson.
And certainly his challenge will be in convincing some of these skeptical Republicans that the $60 billion in additional American assistance that President Biden is requesting for Ukraine could make a difference on the battlefield as Ukraine remains bogged down in this counter offensive that hasn't necessarily changed the battle lines so far.
But already, you're hearing some Republicans sort of oppose Zelenskyy's visit. J.D. Vance, the conservative Republican from Ohio, said that Zelenskyy will come to Washington and demand that Congress care more about his border than our own. And remember, these talks are tied together with this conversation about tightening the rules on migration into the United States.
We did hear Sunday from the two senators who are sort of leading those discussions, the Democrat Chris Murphy and the Republican James Lankford. It did not appear as if they were any closer to an agreement. Listen to what they said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT): I think this is one of the most dangerous moments that I've ever faced in American politics. And I wish Republicans weren't holding Israel aid and aid to Ukraine hostage to the resolution of immigration reform.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you get Ukraine aid passed separate from this?
SEN. JAMES LANKFORD (R-OK): No, no, the focus is what you hear from so many people is, why would we deal with other people's national security and ignore American national security? Why would we literally allow people across our southern border this administration labels national security risk by the thousands coming into the country separate from just the migrants that are coming from employment with individuals, they've literally labeled national security risks coming into the country? Why would we not work to be able to stop that? We can't do two things at once.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIPTAK: Now, President Biden did say last week that he was open to significant compromise when it comes to border provisions. But he is really caught in a bind here feeling pressure from both sides, certainly from Republicans and even some Democrats who want to do more to stop the migrant flows from coming into the United States but also on the other side from progressives and immigration advocates who are worried about the steps that President Biden might agree to, worried that they could amount to some of the restrictive policies that President Trump enacted when he was in office.
Now we did hear from Senator Chris Murphy today that the White House plans to become more engaged on these talks over the coming weeks. But it remains certainly unclear whether a presidential involvement will break the impasse.
Kevin Liptak, CNN, Los Angeles.
HOLMES: Still to come on the program, Argentina's new president promises changes in store for the country's troubled economy. His plan for a new era.
Also, we'll go to Beijing for the latest on a string of confrontations between China and the Philippines in the South China Sea. You're watching CNN Newsroom, we'll be right back.
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JAVIER MILEI, ARGENTINE PRESIDENT (through translator): We do not seek nor do we want the hard decisions that will need to be taken in the coming weeks. But unfortunately, we have been left with no choice. However, our commitment to Argentine is unchangeable. We are going to make all the necessary decisions to fix the problem caused by 100 years of waste by the political class, even if it is going to be hard at first.
If a country is lacking in reputation, as is unfortunately the case with Argentina, businesses will not invest until they see a fiscal readjustment bringing it down, and no less important for gradualism, is it necessary that there is financing. And unfortunately, I have to tell you again, that there is no money.
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HOLMES: Argentina's new president there promising that his inauguration marks the start of a new austere era for the country. The world is watching to see how he addresses an economic crisis of epic proportion. President Milei claims no government has ever received a worst inheritance. CNN's Patrick Oppmann with more on the ceremony and Milei's approach to the presidency.
PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Argentina has a colorful and controversial new president. For much of his candidacy, Javier Milei seemed like the longest of long shots. His brash style has been compared to that of Donald Trump's. He calls himself an anarcho capitalist, and he campaigned with a chainsaw, a symbol of the slashing cuts, he said he wanted to make to Argentina's bloated bureaucracy.
But Milei also was able to tap into the deep anger that many Argentine feel to the previous leftist administrations that govern Argentina, and have brought it to the brink of financial collapse. Milei has thrown many radical ideas that he said he would adopt as president including adopting the U.S. dollar as a national currency, reducing the number of ministries that the Argentine government has.
And up ending many of the relationships that Argentina has with countries in the region and around the world and that perhaps why we saw Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy in Argentina for Milei's swearing in. It remains to be seen though how much of this Milei will actually be able to get done. His coalition does not control Argentina's Congress, which means it's going to be an uphill battle getting many of these sweeping reforms adopted. And it may turn out that while it was politically successful for Milei to campaign as a radical outsider, governing as one maybe much more difficult.
Patrick Oppmann, CNN, Havana.
HOLMES: As Patrick noted there, Ukraine's President spent Sunday in Argentina congratulating Mr. Milei on his inauguration. The two held a bilateral meeting after the swearing in the ceremony. Ukrainian president posting online in part quote, today, the streets and squares of Buenos Aires are filled with the word freedom. Freedom is what unites us, Ukraine and Argentina. We truly cherish it, protect it, and stand ready to strengthen it together.
Zelenskyy also made time to meet with the presidents of Ecuador, Paraguay and Uruguay, they were all present at the inauguration ceremony as well.
Tensions between the Philippines and China flaring once again in the South China Sea, both nations accusing one another of dangerous maneuvers and causing a collision that happened this weekend in the contested waters of the Spratly Island chain. The Philippines has summoned the Chinese ambassador to complain about what it calls aggressive actions. It's the latest in a string of maritime confrontations between the two countries that have heightened regional tensions. CNN Beijing bureau chief Steven Jiang joins me now with more. These things are happening more often and getting more dangerous. Tell us about this latest one, the reactions to it and where this is headed.
STEVEN JIANG, CNN BEIJING BUREAU CHIEF: Yes, Michael, you know not surprisingly, both governments blaming the other as the culprit for the latest incidents over the weekend. But remember, the root cause is really this long running territorial dispute between Beijing and many of its neighbors including the Philippines because China claims sovereignty over almost the entirety of the 1.3 million squared South China Sea.
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But there are strategic and tactical reasons that we are hearing more about these dramatic encounters because the Philippine government under President Marcos has been increasingly publicizing these incidents, trying to draw more global attention and presumably more support for the Philippines because they do have this sense of urgency because part of what they have done back in 1999 was to deliberately running ashore a World War II era vessel the Sierra Madre on the Second Thomas Shoal, which is part of the Spratly's to stake their claim.
And for the most part of the 20 years since, they have been able to use that as a military outpost, rotating their Marines in and out and supplying it with civilian ships. But that has become more difficult since Chinese leader Xi Jinping took power with the Chinese foreign policy and military operations in the region becoming more assertive and some will say aggressive. But also remember that ship, that Filipino ship is so old as literally rusting away and disintegrating structurally.
So they really need to repair it to shore up their claim. And that is why time is really critical for the Philippines. And that is also why because they are really dwarfed by the Chinese military. So there were already reports emerging that they are receiving advice from the U.S. on this front. But that's also why strategically we have seen what Marcos has done since he took power was to deepening expanding such cooperation with the U.S., giving the U.S. more access to Filipino bases, and restarting joint air and sea patrols with the U.S. military and himself stopping in Hawaii to visit the U.S. Indo Pacific Command just recently.
So from the Chinese perspective, not surprisingly, they're seeing the Philippines now doing the U.S. government bidding to suppress Chinese national interest, as they call it, and also stirring trouble challenging the Chinese power and supremacy in this region. So that's why this is happening, despite that recent, so called thaw between Washington and Beijing is worrying a lot of analysts, because at the end of the day, the U.S. is very much seen as part of this. And that's why these latest incidents are ominous signs in terms of where this is headed with the global and regional implications. Michael?
HOLMES: Yes, because on Sunday, the U.S., you know, urged China to abide by it was a 2016 arbitration ruling over these very waters. You know, which begs the question, who's right in this disagreement? How likely is China to listen to the U.S., probably not.
JIANG: That's right. The Chinese does not even recognize the legitimacy of that international tribunal. So let alone abiding by any of its rulings they have set that time and again, including in recent months. And the weeks and obviously, as I was saying, that is without an urgency right now because of that Filipino ship is a potentially being washed away by waters very soon, and the Chinese could just swoop in and seize that territory and potentially militarizing as they have done to so many previously inhabited reefs and islands in the South China Sea. That of course, is something that Philippines and the U.S. do not want to see. Michael?
HOLMES: Yes, absolutely. Steven, thanks so much. Steven Jiang there in Beijing for us.
Egypt wrapped up the first three days of voting in its presidential election on Sunday with indications which don't surprise many of another win for the incumbent President Abdel Fattah El-Sisi. El-Sisi is going for an unprecedented third term after a change in Egypt's constitution in 2019, allowing such a thing. He started serving as president in 2014. And surely when could remain in office until 2030. One Egyptian voter saying she considers the right to vote vital.
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MOUSHIRA SHAKER, VOTER (through translator): Well, I just came now at the end of the day, but I found large turnout in lines of people waiting to participate. And this is a great patriotic spirit. I'm calling on everyone to go down and participate. You should. This is our president, and this is our country. And we have to preserve it because thank God, no matter how much trouble and problems we're going through, we're still much better off than others and we need to preserve the condition we're in.
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HOLMES: Some candidates were barred from running in the election. There are however three on the ballot apart from El-Sisi. The results are expected to be announced on December 18th.
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Still to come on the program, the fight over fossil fuels, why there are major divisions at the COP28 climate summit in Dubai. I'll speak to a climate expert who is raising major new concerns. We'll be right back.
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MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back. You're watching CNN NEWSROOM with me, Michael Holmes.
Now, the head of the COP28 climate summit is warning that progress is not coming fast enough as delegates in Dubai spar over the future of fossil fuels.
The president of the U.N. Climate Change Conference says major divisions remain over whether or not fossil fuels should be phased out, and if so, how and at what pace.
With the conference due to end on Tuesday, the U.N. Climate chief has made a plea for negotiators to move beyond their disagreements.
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SIMON STIEL, U.N. CLIMATE CHANGE EXECUTIVE SECRETARY: The global stock-take needs to help all countries get out of this mess. Any strategic land mines that blow it up for one, blow it up for all.
The world is watching, as are 4,000 members of the global media and thousands of observers here in Dubai. There is nowhere to hide.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Our next guest says we need net zero carbon dioxide emissions by 2050 if we are to stand a chance of keeping global warming to the goal of 1.5 degrees Celsius this year -- this century.
Johan Rockstrom is director of the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research. Thank you so much for making the time. You know, we've covered many of these, these COP gatherings, they're often described as, you know, noble talk fast where goals are set but rarely achieved and lobbyists have the outsized influence.
And you know, in fact, as this one got underway, you said time was running out for giving, quote, "beautiful promises with a basically zero delivery". Has COP28 been any different in that regard?
JOHAN ROCKSTROM, DIRECTOR, POTSDAM INSTITUTE FOR CLIMATE IMPACT RESEARCH: Well, for one, the science is clear, we have just, you know, basically six years of emissions at the current rate in order to lose out on holding the limit of 1.5 degrees Celsius.
So this is our last chance to start bending the curve of emissions from oil, coal and gas. And it is a unique meeting, given the fact that we are in an oil and gas state and the presidency is held by a state-owned oil and gas company.
I see this as an opportunity and responsibility to get the oil, gas, and coal countries around the table. And the pressure is on. Everyone knows that this COP meeting will be measured by the credibility in the plan to start the phaseout of oil, coal and gas.
[01:34:45] HOLMES: Yes, it's interesting, former vice president and climate advocate Al Gore, he slammed both the venue for this COP and the choice who's head of it, who you just mentioned.
Let's just have a quick listen to some of what he said.
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AL GORE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They've got a plan to expand production of both oil and gas by an enormous amount, starting the minute the gavel bangs to end this conference. And that's a direct conflict of interest. And it's not a nitpicking thing to point that out.
And we've been seeing the fossil fuel polluters try to manipulate this process for a long time. And the world's running out of patience, because this is so serious now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Quite apart from that, you had leading U.S. presidential candidate Donald Trump this past week saying if -- on election day on day one after election day, he will, quote, "drill, drill, drill", referring to oil extraction.
I mean how discouraging is it to see politicians, the fossil fuel industry, its lobbyists still wielding such influence and power at a critical time like this?
ROCKSTROM: Yes, I mean, you know, it's a bit unusual for an academic to express the following (ph), but we are in the midst of a climate war. And this is a war room.
You have over 100 countries right now supporting the science, making clear that we need to bend the global curve of emissions the next two years, cut global emissions by 50 percent by 2030, that means 6 to 7 percent reductions every year to reach net zero by 2050 to have a 50 percent chance of holding ourselves away from the unmanageable limit of passing 1.5.
Then you have a small group of countries and also unconstructive leaders who're trying to hold on status quo.
HOLMES: Do we still have you. No, I think we've lost Johan Rockstrom there. Oh, no. You're back. We lost you sort of halfway through, about the leaders who are trying to keep the status quo. Continue that thought.
ROCKSTROM: Yes, that we have a minority of countries in the world, which is basically Saudi Arabia and a few other oil and gas and coal dependent states. They're trying to hold on to status quo.
And this is what will be determined over the next 24 hours, are we able to get a decision that really, really favors responsibility for the majority, not only today, but for our future generations.
This again is the pathway towards avoiding unmanageable, potentially catastrophic future for humanity.
HOLMES: Yes, I can't imagine the frustration. I know you're an academic, but you know, these forces are still so powerful at a time when everything points towards the catastrophe that looms.
What are the positives right now in terms of climate change? What still gives you hope? Is it the growth in renewables, the engagement of the younger generation?
You know, I was reading today, an oil state like Texas in the U.S. now has more renewables than oil extraction. What makes you optimistic?
ROCKSTROM: You know, Michael, this is what really also drives the momentum forward, the double frustration. Not only do we have evidence of moving towards unmanageable disaster if we continue the path as today, we have so much evidence, we actually released a report at COP28 on the positive tipping points that we are seeing S curves of exponential growth of photovoltaics, of wind farms, of electric mobility, of all forms of transitions in the food system that sequesters more carbon than emits with better outcomes, both for jobs, economy, security, health, but also social stability.
If you want to have a modern, advanced, but more stable future for economies, you better go fossil fuel free. This is quite interesting, that we are seeing a minority of countries in the world holding on to status quo for short-sighted profit rather than responsibility for the new modernity of the future.
That is what we now have to argue, that the path to decarbonize, not only taking responsibility, is also a path towards a better outcome.
HOLMES: Yes, profits won't mean much if there is no planet. Johan Rockstrom, really appreciate you making the time. We'll have to get you back to talk more about it. Thank you so much.
ROCKSTROM: Thanks for having me.
HOLMES: Well, a change of course for former president Donald Trump after declaring Friday that he would take the stand today in his $250 million New York civil fraud trial. He announced a few hours ago that he will not testify after all.
CNN's Zach Cohen with that story.
[01:39:44]
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ZACHARY COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A last-minute reversal by former president Donald Trump, who announced on Truth Social that he will no longer testify for a second time in his New York civil fraud trial on Monday. Now Trump had been expected to take the stand again in the civil fraud
case, despite his lawyers advising him not to because of the gag order in effect that prevents him from criticizing court staff. On Thursday, one of Trump's lawyer said the former president was
adamant about testifying because he wanted to reiterate how unfairly he'd been treated by the judge and prosecutors in this case.
Trump's lawyer Chris Kise released a new statement Sunday saying Trump had quote, "nothing more to say to a judge who imposed an unconstitutional gag order and accused the judge of ignoring Trump's previous testimony in the case.
The New York attorney general issued her own statement on Sunday, accusing Trump of trying to distract from the facts of the case, which she said proved he committed years of financial fraud and unjustly enriched himself and his family.
Now, it's important to note the judge in this case has already ruled that Trump did commit fraud, and this trial was simply to determine the damages the former president must pay.
Zachary Cohen, CNN -- Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: Still to come, a top Israeli official says the government is ready to act against the Houthis amid concerns the Israel-Hamas conflict could widen.
We'll be right back.
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HOLMES: As the Israel-Hamas war intensifies, Israel's national security advisor says the country is ready to act against Houthi rebels in Yemen should the international committee failed to do so.
The Iran-backed rebels have been targeting merchant ships with alleged Israeli links in the Red Sea, and have warned they will continue to do so unless Gaza gets the aid it needs.
Israel says it is giving the international community time to organize its response.
Ali Vaez is director of the Iran Project at the International Crisis Group, joins me now from Doha. And thanks for doing so.
So Israel is saying if the international community doesn't act to stop these attacks, it will. How would an Israeli military move on Houthis complicate the regional landscape?
ALI VAEZ, DIRECTOR, IRAN PROJECT, THE INTERNATIONAL CRISIS GROUP: It's good to be with you, Michael. I think it's very likely that Israel would take aerial strikes against some of the positions of the Houthis.
But let's remember that the Houthis were targeted by massive Saudi-led coalition bombardments since 2015, and not only they survived, they became much more aggressive and powerful. And so I'm not sure if it's necessarily going to achieve the objective
that Israel has in mind. And also take into account that part of the reason the Houthis are doing this, which is completely in line with what Hezbollah is trying to do and Lebanon as well, is to distract Israel from what's happening in Gaza and also to deter U.S. and Israel from further expanding the war because of the consequences that it might have.
The Houthis control the strategic strait of (INAUDIBLE), they can disrupt shipping in the Red Sea, and also in the Gulf region.
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HOLMES: U.S. warships have taken out Houthi drones and missiles. They have though studiously avoided describing those as attacks on the U.S. What's your take on the attack on the U.S. response and the calculus it is making?
VAEZ: I think the U.S. is acting wisely in order to not fall into the trap of Houthi provocations.
It will be very difficult for the Houthis to effectively target Israeli territory. It's a very difficult shot for them geographically, and the U.S. forces in the region have proven themselves pretty capable of shooting down missiles and drones.
The bigger problem I think is if the Houthis target commercial vessels in the Red Sea, or even U.S. Naval ships. But the question is what is the best way of deterring them. Is it demonstrating restraint? Or is it engaging in a fight that I think actually the Houthis are itching for?
HOLMES: The Houthis, of course, have had Iranian support for years. Do you think the Iranian fingerprints are on these Houthi attacks?
VAEZ: Look, there is no doubt that the network of Iranian allies, proxies, and partners throughout the region are coordinating with Iran.
But if you look at different groups throughout the region, they have different relationships with Iran. And Iran has a different degree of influence and control over them.
And the Houthis are basically the least controlled group of -- among this network. They are fiercely independent. They are truly zealots. And it's very difficult for Iranians to be able to dictate anything to them.
And that, I think, increases the risk of escalation because the Houthis can do something that is not necessarily closely coordinated with the Iranians, but could result in the kind of tensions that could then spiral out of control and we could end up from the conflict in Gaza between Israel and Hamas to a disastrous regional conflagration.
HOLMES: The threat of unintended consequences. How do you see Iran's broader strategy when it comes to Israel's war on Hamas in Gaza? How, you know, balanced is its support for Hezbollah in Lebanon, the Houthis in Yemen, whatever extent that is, and those groups involvement so far.
What does Iran want, and I suppose, critically not want to happen?
VAEZ: That's a very good question. So I think what Iranians are looking for is to avoid a regional escalation, because that would then diminish the deterrence capabilities that they have, especially in the form of the crown jewel of their network, which is Hezbollah. Because at the end of the day, Iran has created this network in order to deter an attack on its own soil.
So if Iran's allies in the region, like Hamas, or Hezbollah, where the Houthis, all of them are diminished confrontations with the U.S. And the United States, then Iran's own soil will become much more vulnerable.
For them, I think as long as Hamas survives that is considered victory. As long as they can deter the U.S. and Israel from expanding the war, I think they would be satisfied with the outcome.
But again it's a very dangerous gamble that they're engaged in, because there is plenty of space for mistakes and miscalculations and a wide geographical area from the Red Sea all the way to the mediterranean.
And with so many non-state actors taking actions that are not necessarily very well calibrated and fine-tuned (ph).
HOLMES: Great to get your analysis. Ali Vaez, thank you so much, appreciate you making the time.
VAEZ: My pleasure.
HOLMES: This year's winner of the Nobel Peace prize was not able to accept her award in person. Hear what she said in a powerful speech written from her prison cell. That's when we come back.
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HOLMES: The children of the Iranian activist Narges Mohammadi accepted the Nobel Peace prize on her behalf on Sunday. She was awarded the prize back in October for her decades of human rights activism for which she is spending a 31-year prison sentence in Tehran.
At Sundays awards ceremony, her children delivered a letter written by Mohammadi from her prison cell.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALI RAHMANI, SON OF NOBEL PEACE PRIZE LAUREATE NARGES MOHAMMADI (through translator): I'm confident that the light of freedom and justice will shine brightly on the land of Iran. At that moment, we will celebrate the victory of democracy and human rights over tyranny and authoritarianism. And the outcome of the people's triumph on the streets of Iran will resonate worldwide.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: In her lecture, Mohammadi highlighted how young people in Iran have been a catalyst for civil resistance, adding, quote, "The Iranian people will dismantle obstruction and despotism through their persistence, have no doubt, this is certain.
Now, prior to the awards ceremony, CNN's Jomana Karadsheh spoke exclusively with her children and filed this report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Ali and Kiana are preparing for the proudest moment of their lives.
KIANA RAHMANI, DAUGHTER OF NOBEL PEACE PRIZE LAUREATE NARGES MOHAMMADI: Who sits there?
KARADSHEH: The day they'll stand on the world stage here in the historic Oslo City Hall to receive the Nobel Peace Prize on behalf of their mother, Narges Mohammadi.
K. RAHMANI: This is very symbolic for us. Narges is a flower in Iran.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I see. Ok.
KARADSHEH: We joined them as they got a first look at the room where they'll also present her Nobel lecture smuggled out of Iran's Evin prison.
"Standing here, I'm trying to visualize the crowd," Kiana tells us. We will have to live up to this. A lot of important people will be here.
The 17-year-old twins' first language is French. They were not yet nine when they left Iran with their father for self-exile in Paris after their mother was ripped away from them by a regime that has tried and failed to silence her.
A. RAHMANI: We are extremely proud of all that she's done, but what really saddens us today is that she's not here, because we should not be the ones being interviewed. That's my mother's right. But we'll do our best to be her voice and represent what is happening in Iran.
KARADSHEH: Their mother has been punished time and time again, sentenced to a total of 31 years and 154 lashes for standing up for political prisoners against the death penalty and the compulsory hijab and for exposing sexual assaults in prisons.
She's been accused of anti-regime propaganda and threatening national security. Her decades-long struggle for a free Iran honored in this exhibition at the Nobel Peace Center.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, we have been able to tell the story about Narges in -- from 1979, 1990 -- KARADSHEH: Part of the exhibit is this recreation of the tiny cell where prisoners like Mohammadi and her husband, who is also a political activist, were locked up during solitary confinement.
The exhibition and Mohammadi's Nobel win also paying tribute to the people of Iran and their 2022 Woman, Life, Freedom uprising.
K. RAHMANI: We're not just here for our family, but for freedom and democracy. We feel mostly proud, brave and determined. A determination we got mostly from our mother.
KARADSHEH: I can't imagine what it's been like for you growing up without your mother being there.
A. RAHMANI: From the time I was four when my father was arrested by the Revolutionary Guards, I realized that my family would never have an ordinary life.
My mother has been more than just any mother. She chose to fight the government for me and my sister so that my sister could have the same rights as me.
K. RAHMANI: Of course, at times in my life, I wanted her by my side. At puberty, your body changes, it's the kind of question you would ask your mom. I had no one to ask, so I learned by myself. I would have loved if she could have taken me shopping, taught me how to wear makeup and how to handle my body.
Frankly, I'm just glad she's alive, because others have lost their loved ones and I can't even imagine what that feels like.
KARADSHEH: The family says Mohammadi hasn't been allowed to call them in nearly two years, and they're worried about her deteriorating health.
[01:54:55]
K. RAHMANI: I'm not very optimistic about ever seeing her again. My mom has a 10-year sentence left, and every time she does something, like send out the speech we'll read out at the ceremony, that adds to her sentence.
Whatever happens, she'll always be in my heart. And I accept that because the struggle, the movement, Woman, Life, Freedom is worth it.
KARADSHEH: The pain of separation from her children is one Mohammadi lives with every single day. I asked her about this in August with the help of intermediaries in Iran, she responded in writing.
Mohammadi said, "If I look at the prison through the window of my heart, I was more of a stranger to my daughter and son than any stranger. But I'm sure that the world without freedom, equality, and peace is not worth living.
I have chosen not to see my children or even hear their voices and be the voice of the oppressed people, women and children of my land." Jomana Karadsheh, CNN -- Oslo.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: France is celebrating the 75th anniversary of the Declaration of Human Rights. President Emmanuel Macron urge the significance of supporting women, children, and the LGBT community at the palace in Paris where the draft was signed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EMMANUEL MACRON, FRENCH PRESIDENT (through translator): The work is immense, but I know that you are courageous. I know as well that we are together, united by the strength of this fight, and by the certitude that each time we give up a centimeter, it's a centimeter of regression that we accept for ourselves too or for our children or for our brothers and sisters.
Because this fight is universal. Giving up or accepting its loss in one place is accepting its regression for ourselves too. Nothing, nothing must be given up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: The U.N. General Assembly proclaimed the Universal Declaration of Human Rights in 1948, establishing the groundwork for international human rights.
Thanks for spending part of your day with me. I'm Michael Holmes.
CNN NEWSROOM continues after the break with my friend and colleague Rosemary Church.
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