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CNN International: Ukraine's President Zelenskyy to Make Case for More Aid in Coming Day; U.S. Supreme Court Asked to Rule on Trump Immunity; Giuliani Stands by False Claims About Election Workers; Dismantling Hamas Strongholds in Northern Gaza; Qatar Sent Millions to Gaza for Years, Backed by Israel. Aired 4-4:30a ET

Aired December 12, 2023 - 04:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[04:00:00]

BIANCA NOBILO, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and a warm welcome to our viewers joining us in the United States and all around the world. I'm Bianca Nobilo. I'm winding me up this one here.

MAX FOSTER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Max foster. It is part of my job, I think technically. Joining you live from London, just ahead on CNN NEWSROOM.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, visiting Washington, DC this week to try to make a personal and desperate plea for his country.

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: Ukraine is just a steppingstone for Russia.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Special counsel Jack Smith is asking the Supreme Court to take up two constitutional questions In his election subversion trial against former President Trump.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They know that this is a case that this question has never been decided.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Israel says after two months of fighting, it is still battling Hamas in two different strongholds in northern Gaza.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The situation is very, very challenging.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Live from London, this is CNN NEWSROOM with Max Foster and Bianca Nobilo.

FOSTER: It is Tuesday, December the 12th, 9:00 a.m. here in London and 4:00 a.m. in Washington, where the Ukrainian president calls the congressional deadlock over military aid for his country a dream come true for Vladimir Putin.

NOBILO: Later today, President Volodymyr Zelenskyy will try to sway U.S. Republicans who are refusing to replenish 10s of billions of dollars in security assistance, unless there are major policy changes on the southern U.S. border. The Democrats don't want to.

FOSTER: But barring a major breakthrough, Congress will likely adjourn at the end of this week without approving that desperately needed security package and with no clear way to get it passed in the contentious months ahead. But Mr. Zelenskyy warned that Russia's aggression won't end in Ukraine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: six Russia is set on more than just Ukraine's land, resources or our people. It won't be satisfied with just a part of Ukraine, or even all of it. Ukraine is just a stepping stone for Russia.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBILO: The Biden administration stressed that U.S. support for Ukraine is so critical because it sends a key message to other countries and would be invaders about what they can and can't get away with. CNN's MJ Lee reports from the White House.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MJ LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, visiting Washington, DC, this week to try to make a personal and desperate plea at such a critical juncture for his country. On Tuesday, President Zelenskyy will be visiting Capitol Hill first, where he will be meeting with senators from both parties before he has a one-on-one meeting with the new House Speaker, Mike Johnson. Then he heads over here to the White House for another meeting with President Biden, and then the two leaders will proceed to have a joint press conference.

Of course, Zelenskyy is hoping that his visit here can break the impasse that we have seen on Capitol Hill. Now over the issue of the billions of dollars in additional funding for Ukraine that has been such a priority for the White House but has in recent weeks become completely tangled up in the very fraught and complicated politics of immigration and border policy. What U.S. officials have been trying to warn for weeks is that time is up and that there isn't another pool of money that the U.S. government can tap into.

You know, other officials have also told CNN that this is a situation where the world is watching, including Russian President Vladimir Putin. One U.S. official saying that when this supplemental package didn't move forward in the Senate last week that they very much noted that Russian state media celebrated this news. They're also saying that a failure to continue to fund Ukraine would send a bad message to any of the would be aggressors that are paying close attention to all of this. But at this moment in time, the prospects of this additional funding getting approved before the end of the year looking very grim.

MJ Lee, CNN, the White House.

(END VIDEOTAPE) FOSTER: Clare Sebastian's been following all this for us. It's a tough argument, isn't it, for Zelenskyy? Because he's making arguments about how effectively other countries in Europe could be invaded off the back of it and how this isn't good for Russia. But everyone in America is very -- but certainly with those Republicans are focused on domestic issues.

CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right, well I think this is the key problem.

[04:05:00]

Why this is going to be a next to impossible task for him, because the core issue here isn't whether or not the U.S. should continue giving aid to Ukraine, the core issue is whether or not they should tie that to border security. And that's where the impasse is and how he's expected to influence that, I think, you know it's difficult to see, quite honestly.

But look, he has an opportunity here I think to build relationships. Certainly, I think the key meeting today will be with Speaker Mike Johnson who, you know, perhaps holds the most powerful key of all to unlocking aid for Ukraine. So you know, while I don't think he would necessarily expect to change his mind overnight. I think building that relationship will be key. He'll also be attending an all senators meeting up on Capitol Hill. And of course, with Biden, we'll still see a lot of the same rhetoric that, you know, if you, if they don't support Ukraine, it could lead to other potential similar invasions in the future.

But look, for Zelenskyy this is this is new, right? Because he's done these trips before. This is his third trip to Washington. He's never left empty handed. This time of last year he left with the promise of Patriot missiles. He's now been promised, you know, Abrams tanks, F- 16s -- all these things. If he goes back empty handed with no promise for Ukraine --

FOSTER: Which he will because they won't make a decision by the time he's gone.

SEBASTIAN: Right. Then you know this risks Ukrainian morale. It risks him looking like he's being used in in this sort of partisan politics. And all coming in a big week where, you know, in the EU, they're expected to come to some kind of decision on whether they can start accession talks with Ukraine. So really critical juncture for the Ukrainian President. And all the while we're seeing Russia stepping up attacks as we get into winter.

FOSTER: Just briefly, it's quite symbolic. I mean, it's pretty seismic thing that you're saying, isn't it really? It's a realistic thing that the meeting with the House Speaker is more important than the one with the President, today.

SEBASTIAN: Yes, I mean, because the Republicans are the ones who control the House, right. And they are standing in the way of more aid. So it's absolutely critical. I think Zelenskyy will know that. He will bring out a lot of the same rhetoric that he's been doing. He says that Ukraine has taken back 50 percent of the territory that Russia took, that that they've now won in the Black Sea. Trying to reshape the narrative around this idea of a stalemate that has been relatively pervasive in. Washington.

FOSTER: OK. Thank you, Clare.

NOBILO: The special counsel overseeing Donald Trump's election subversion trial is asking the U.S. Supreme Court to decide whether the former president has immunity from prosecution for any alleged crimes that he committed while in office.

FOSTER: Trump's team argues any actions he may have taken over the 2020 election results were part of his official duties as President. CNN's Paula Reed has the details.

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PAULA REID, CNN LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, here's special counsel Jack Smith is asking the Supreme Court to take up two constitutional questions in the hope that they can resolve those, and that his election subversion trial against former President Trump can go ahead as scheduled on March 4th.

Now the Supreme Court weighing in tonight saying they'll get back to him soon. They're not saying that they are going to take up these questions immediately, but they have promised a prompt response.

And look, timing is really the big issue here. The special counsel knows these questions likely have to be resolved for this case to stay on track and be on time ahead of the election next year. Now Trump is litigating these issues, as is his right, but that litigation can take a really long time to go through all the steps. You start at the District Court where he's lost, goes to the appellate court, maybe even then the full appellate court, and then the Supreme Court. That could take over a year.

So the special counsel is insisting to the Supreme Court that look, it is an issue of public importance that voters understand what the resolution of this case is before they vote next year, and that is why they want the Supreme Court to take up these issues, decide them so they can move ahead with their case in March.

Paula Reid, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NOBILO: CNN Senior Supreme Court analyst Joan Biskupic says that this request could be a push from the special counsel to have the Supreme Court make a landmark decision on a subject never before seen in U.S. politics. Here's part of her conversation earlier with CNN's Wolf Blitzer.

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JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN SENIOR SUPREME COURT ANALYST: Just think of this Supreme Court. This is a Supreme Court that managed to avoid a lot of the controversy during 2020. It rejected baseless claims from Donald Trump's allies about the election results, stayed out of it every case it's ever handled with Donald Trump, whether on his policy or on his personal tax dealings has always been fraught. So, they're probably not looking at this with eagerness.

But they know that this is a case that this question has never been decided. And that was the point of Jack Smith's petition that eventually the Supreme Court's going to have to decide if a former president or a president, can be immune from criminal prosecution for actions taken while in office, which is exactly what Donald Trump is asserting.

So I think -- I frankly think this is a really strong case that Jack Smith has put forward. And I think that it will get -- it's already getting close Supreme Court attention and we will probably know when it's just a matter of weeks, whether they grant this petition.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[04:10:04]

NOBILO: Donald Trump has until December the 20th to file a response to the petition.

FOSTER: Donald Trump's former attorney Rudy Giuliani insists everything he said about two former Georgia election workers after the 2020 presidential race is true.

NOBILO: Giuliani is facing a defamation trial where a jury will determine how much he owes to the two women for damages. Here's what he said after the first day of the trial.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER TRUMP ATTORNEY: But everything I said about them is true.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you regret what you did to --

GIULIANI: Of course I don't regret. I told the truth. They were engaged in changing votes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's no proof of that.

GIULIANI: Oh, you're damn right there is. Stay tuned.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Well, the federal judge overseeing the case has already ruled that Giuliani spread false information about the two women. Jessica Schneider has that story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GIULIANI: It's disgraceful what happened. JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Rudy Giuliani spent the days after the 2020 election traveling state to state, falsely insisting the results were rigged.

GIULIANI: I don't have to be a genius to figure out that those votes are not legitimate votes.

SCHNEIDER (voice over): In Georgia, he focused his fire on two unsuspecting election workers in Fulton County.

GIULIANI: It's a tape earlier in the day of Ruby Freeman and Shaye Freeman Moss and one other gentleman. They should have been questioned already. Their places of work, their homes should have been searched for evidence of ballots, for evidence of USB ports, for evidence of voter fraud.

SCHNEIDER (voice over): Shaye Moss later told the January 6th Committee her life changed forever the day Giuliani publicly spread conspiracy theories about her at a state Senate hearing. She and her mother soon received death threats, angry election deniers showed up at her home, and Ruby Freeman was forced into hiding.

RUBY FREEMAN, FORMER FULTON COUNTY ELECTION WORKER: I've lost my name and I've lost my reputation. I've lost my sense of security, all because a group of people starting with number 45 and his ally, Rudy Giuliani, decided to scapegoat me and my daughter, Shaye, to push their own lies about how the presidential election was stolen.

WANDREA "SHAYE" MOSS, FORMER FULTON COUNTY ELECTION WORKER: I second guess everything that I do. It's affected my life in a major way, in every way all because of lies.

SCHNEIDER (voice over): Giuliani claimed Moss and Freeman plotted to kick ballot watchers out of State Farm Arena, the spot in Fulton County, hosting the ballot counting. He also pushed the false narrative that they had brought in suitcases filled with fake ballots for Biden and then scanned them into the system multiple times. And Giuliani described surveillance video from that day he claimed showed Ruby and her daughter exchanging USB memory sticks containing a fraudulent vote count.

GIULIANI: And when you look at what you saw on the video, which, to me, was a smoking gun -- powerful smoking gun ...

GIULIANI: Quite obviously, surreptitiously passing around USB ports as if they are vials of heroin or cocaine.

GIULIANI: You don't put the votes under a table.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

GIULIANI: Wait until you throw the opposite out, and in the middle of the night count them. We would have to be fools to think that.

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): None of that was true, was it?

MOSS: None of it.

SCHNEIDER (voice over): Congressman Adam Schiff from the January 6th Committee asked Shaye if Giuliani accurately described what her mom was passing under the table.

SCHIFF: What was your mom actually handing you on that video?

MOSS: A ginger mint.

SCHNEIDER: Now, Rudy Giuliani has already been found liable for defaming these two former Georgia election workers, and now this four day trial will actually determine how much Giuliani owes them. He already owes them $230,000 for failing to respond to parts of their lawsuit. And on top of that, this mother and daughter are now asking the jury to award them between $15 and $43 million for the reputational harm they say they've suffered from Giuliani's comments. Plus, they're seeking additional money for their claim of emotional distress. It is expected that Giuliani will take the stand in his own defense this week.

Jessica Schneider, CNN Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: Ousted U.S. Congressman George Santos could have a plea deal in the works in his criminal fraud case. Court records showed that he's negotiating with federal prosecutors in New York. Santos talked about the possibility of a plea deal in an interview on Sunday.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you going to try to work a plea deal or are going to go to trial?

GEORGE SANTOS, FORMER U.S. HOUSE REPUBLICAN: Look, in the essence of everything going on, a plea is not off the table, obviously, at this point. But we just don't know that yet. There's obviously conversations taking place, especially after what happened in Congress and we'll see.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you afraid of going to jail?

SANTOS: I think everybody should be afraid of going to jail. It's not a pretty place, and I definitely want to work very hard to avoid that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[04:15:00]

NOBILO: Santos is expected in federal court today for a status conference. He's pleaded not guilty to several charges, including wire fraud, money laundering and embezzlement. The House of Representatives voted to expel Santos earlier this month in a historic vote.

Russian opposition leader Alexey Navalny apparently has gone missing in the prison system and the White House is expressing deep concern. Still ahead on CNN.

FOSTER: And explosions in northern Gaza, as Israel says Hamas last strongholds there are surrounded and we'll have the details next.

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NOBILO: Welcome back. U.S. President Joe Biden is pledging his unshakable support for the security of Israel and the safety of the Jewish people. His words of support came during a White House event to celebrate the fifth night of Hanukkah.

FOSTER: But as Mr. Biden pledged continued support, he also issued a warning about the volatility of public opinion. Take a listen.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We continue to provide military assistance soon to until they get rid of Hamas. But we have to be careful.

[04:20:00]

They have to be careful. The whole world's public opinion can shift overnight. We can't let that happen.

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FOSTER: As the UN General Assembly gears up to resume its emergency session on Gaza in the hours ahead, Israel's defense minister claimed soldiers are now surrounding the last two Hamas strongholds in northern Gaza, and he's calling on fighters to surrender.

NOBILO: That comes as a senior Gaza health official tells CNN Israel's military has a deep presence in the Jabalia camp. The heavy fighting is being reported. On Monday, large explosions could be seen in northern Gaza as Israel's Yoav Gallant claimed the final Hamas battalions that including in the Jabalia area, are on the verge of dismantling.

Elliott Gotkine is following developments and he joins us here in London with the latest. So Elliott, the Israeli Defense Minister, has said that Hamas is at breaking point. What evidence is there for that?

ELLIOTT GOTKINE, JOURNALIST: Look, Israel's been sharing some videos of its raids going on and gunfights taking place in the northern part of the Gaza Strip. We've seen those images of what Israel says, are, you know, potentially Hamas fighters surrendering and handing over their arms. And indeed, Yoav Gallant, the Defense Minister, saying that what they're hearing from some of these fighters, that militants that they are detaining or that are surrendering is that they are running out of food, that they're running out of weapons and said to them, basically, if you want to live, you should surrender now. And that's the only way that's going to happen.

And at the same time, Israel saying that it did -- it carried out raids on a Hamas compound. It discovered something like 250 shells, rocket launchers, rocket propelled grenades and also destroyed a rocket launching post that was firing rockets towards the Israeli city in the south of Sderot.

And as you say, we heard from this Director General of the Hamas run health ministry, saying that not only are they deeply there in the northern part of Jabalia he can, there are. There are many tanks there in the northern part and they are so close to him, he says he's 700 meters away but he can hear the screams from where he is.

NOBILO: Elliott Gotkine, thank you very much.

FOSTER: As the Israel Hamas war rages on, CNN found a series of interviews with key Israeli players that Qatar sent millions of dollars to Gaza for years with Israel's backing. Although Qatar is now coming under fire for sending the aid money to Gaza, is vowing not to stop the payments.

NOBILO: But CNN and also discovered that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu allowed this cash flow to Hamas, despite concerns raised from within his own government. Nima Elbagir has this story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): Israel's mourning continues even as the clamor around Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu grows. Questioning whether his policies helped prop up Hamas.

In a series of interviews with key Israeli players, CNN and the Israeli investigative platform Shomrim were told how Netanyahu allowed Qatari cash donations to Hamas for years without supervision, despite concerns from within his own government.

AMOS GILAD, FORMER SENIOR ISRAELI DEFENSE & INTELLIGENCE OFFICIAL: Thiry million dollar per --

ELBAGIR: Month.

GILAD: -- per month.

ELBAGIR: OK.

GILAD: 360 million dollars. It's about a billion check. It's simple mathematics.

ELBAGIR: It's a lot of money.

GILAD: Lot of money. A dollar in Gaza is like a $20 in U.S. For them it was like a relief, it was like oxygen. Can you live without oxygen? No. So it's a dramatic, historic mistake.

ELBAGIR (voice-over): Former Israeli Minister and former Defense Minister Naftali Bennett says he was among those repeatedly raising concerns to Netanyahu.

When Bennett became prime minister in 2021, he put a stop to the suitcases of cash to Hamas, moving the transfer of financial support to Hamas from cash to a U.N. mechanism. NAFTALI BENNETT, FORMER ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: I stopped the cash suitcases because I believe that's a horrendous mistake to allow Hamas to have all these suitcases full of cash that goes directly to rearming themselves against Israelis. Why would we feed them cash to kill us?

ELBAGIR (voice-over): The cash deliveries were supposed to help among other humanitarian needs, pay Gaza's civil servants. And pictures in 2018 showed workers lining up to receive hundred-dollar bills.

Israel approved the deal in a security cabinet meeting in August 2018, during a previous Netanyahu tenure as prime minister. An Israeli official defended Netanyahu's decision, telling CNN successive Israeli governments enabled money to go to Gaza, not in order to strengthen Hamas, but to prevent a humanitarian crisis. That's true, but no one else approved it in cash.

Former Prime Minister Bennett says that Netanyahu underestimated Hamas.

[04:25:00]

BENNETT: I think the approach towards Hamas was one of a sort of a nuisance type terror organization that can shoot rockets, can cause a bit of havoc here and there, but not much more than that.

ELBAGIR: So, underestimated.

BENNETT: Absolutely. And in that sense, we've learned the lesson. We have to believe our enemies.

ELBAGIR (voice-over): This lesson has become a turning point for Israel. One even long-time Netanyahu allies like Zvika Hauser acknowledge.

ZVIKA HAUSER, FORMER CHAIR, KNESSET DEFENSE AND FOREIGN AFFAIRS COMMITTEE: That was a strategic lesson for the Israeli society that you can talk a lot about peace. You can try to do a lot of things. You can come to the White House, to the and get some Nobel Prizes. But in some point, enough is enough. And if you ask me what symbolize October 7? October 7 mostly symbolized the Israeli society, no more take risks.

ELBAGIR (voice-over): Risk that such as this. Heating the toll of human suffering and international calls to slow the pummeling of Gaza before Israel is satisfied, Hamas has been destroyed, whatever the cost.

Nima Elbagir, CNN, Tel-Aviv.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: One of Vladimir Putin's top critics, opposition leader Alexey Navalny, apparently missing from prison, Navalny has been held in a Russian penal colony east of Moscow, but the prison now says he's not there. And Navalny missed a remote court appearance as well on Monday, according to his team.

NOBILO: They say that they haven't heard from him in six days. Elections in Russia are four months away and a member of Navalny's foundation spoke to CNN about the timing of his disappearance.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARIA PEVCHIKH, NAVALNY'S ANTICORRUPTION FOUNDATION: If you just look into the timings and Navalny disappeared on Tuesday last week and the official elections were announced on Thursday. And this was also the day when we announced our campaign, our anti-Putin, anti-war campaign and this billboards, this lovely billboards, they said that say, Russia and they are part of our campaign. And if you scan a QR code you will get to our website and this was our little fun project. So of course, Putin wants his reelection to be as smooth as possible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: The Iowa caucuses are just weeks away, and there's not much doubt about who's going to win. We'll see why all the drama is going on out there and he'll finish second to Trump.

NOBILO: Plus, the Harvard Corporation is set to decide the fate of its president after her widely criticized testimony last week on anti- Semitism on campus. Details next.

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