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Biden Meets With Families Of Americans Still Held By Hamas; Ukrainian President Turning To E.U. For Support; House Republicans Formalize Impeachment Inquiry Into Biden. Aired 1-2a ET
Aired December 14, 2023 - 01:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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PAULA NEWTON, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and a very warm welcome. Ahead here on CNN Newsroom, a setback in efforts to free more Israeli hostages hours after the latest pleas from families to bring their loved ones home.
After leaving the United States almost empty handed, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy persuade some of his European allies to open their wallets.
And U.S. Republican lawmakers open an impeachment inquiry against President Joe Biden despite the fact they have yet to come up with any evidence of impeachable offenses.
And we do begin this hour in Gaza where a dire humanitarian crisis is deepening as Israel's war against Hamas intensifies and Israeli officials vowed to fight until the end. New video shows what overwhelmed hospitals are now facing. And we want to warn you, viewers may find the images disturbing. The video was shot at Al-Aqsa Martyrs Hospital in central Gaza, Wednesday.
And shows -- you see there some being treated on the floor in such chaotic scenes. Many casualties were brought in on Wednesday after reported strike. Now several other hospitals in Gaza also reported receiving high number of civilian casualties on that same day. And it's not just the expanding war but also the weather that's bringing more misery to Gaza's displaced population.
Heavy rain has flooded makeshift tents. And some have had to dig trenches just to try and keep the water out. Meantime, in Israel, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu spoke up the great pain felt there after nine Israeli soldiers were killed in battle in northern Gaza. Tuesday's casualties are among the largest loss of life in a single incident for Israeli forces since the ground offensive began.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REAR ADMIRAL DANIEL HAGARI, ISRAELI ARMY SPOKESPERSON (through translator): We are at the stage where large forces are operating in the Gaza Strip, making contact with the enemy. The more we widen our operations, the more there are clashes and unfortunately the more soldiers are hit.
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NEWTON: Now we are learning from a source that the Israeli government has canceled the Mossad chief's trip to Doha. Now the head of Israel's intelligence service, David Barnea, was set to restart talks on a possible second hostage release deal. The move has angered the families of Israeli hostages. While in Washington, the families of American hostages are praising the Biden administration after meeting with the president. CNN's MJ Lee has details now from the White House.
MJ LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: For the first time President Biden meeting in person here at the White House with some of the family members of those American hostages that are still being held captive in Gaza. About a dozen of those family members, we are told, were here at the White House. Several others tuned in, virtually, when these family members came out to speak to reporters.
Afterwards, they said that they were grateful for the White House's continued close engagement with these families. And they said that the Biden White House understands that each of their loved ones isn't just a name or a face, but that they are somebody's son, somebody's mother, somebody's grandmother. Here's what one of those family members said.
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JONATHAN DEKEL-CHEN, FATHER OF HOSTAGE SAGUI DEKEL-CHEN: It was a terrific, terrific meeting and conversation. I think we all came away feeling that as families of hostages of American Israeli hostages, which are eight out of a total of 138 hostages. We felt that and we felt before and we were only reinforced in seeing and believing that we could have no better friend in Washington or in the White House than President Biden himself and his administration.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEE: And when I have spoken with some of these family members in recent days, they said understandably that they are starting to grow increasingly desperate for any news about their loved ones and any movement to get more hostages out. You'll recall during the seven-day truce in the Israel-Hamas war, each day of that truce, a small number of hostages was successfully getting out. But that truce of course ultimately fell apart.
The war has resumed and no hostages have gotten out since then. And so these family members are all pressing both the Israeli government as well as the Biden administration to basically get creative, to do really anything, take any action to try to get additional hostages out. But the tough reality right now, according to CNN's reporting, is that there is no movement at the moment. There isn't even a formal negotiation to try to get Hamas back to the negotiating table as it relates to these hostages.
[01:05:25]
Our reporting is that in recent days, Hamas has actually been entirely unresponsive to various overtures that have been made to once again discuss at some kind of deal, some kind of negotiations to get more of these hostages out. So that certainly is not good news for these families. But they did say after this meeting at the White House and seeing the president in person, that those meetings, that meeting helped to refuel their hope that the White House is in fact trying to do everything that they can to get more of these hostages out of Gaza.
MJ Lee, CNN, the White House.
NEWTON: Steven Cook is a senior fellow for Middle Eastern Studies at the Council on Foreign Relations. And he joins us now from Washington. Good to have you with us. You know, the stories from those families of the hostages have just been so powerful, right? They've been in fact a potent political force. Maybe some of their family members wouldn't be free right now, if it hadn't been for that potent political force.
Now, I have spoken with some of those families. I know there's so much ambivalence. They want Israel to defend itself. And yet they've been put in this impossible situation, you know, at this hour, their loved ones could not just be captives, but could be under threat from the Israeli army that's supposed to be trying to free them.
STEVEN COOK, SR. FELLOW, MIDDLE EASTERN STUDIES, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: Yes, this is perhaps one of the most difficult situations facing the Israelis as well as the United States in this operation. It's very unclear at this point, how many of those hostages remain alive? There's a reason why Hamas has been so recalcitrant about restart negotiations for a hostage release. There is some speculation that some good number of those people are not alive.
And it's clear also that the Israeli Defense Forces as well as the government, although they have been speaking quite openly about the rescue or return of hostages are not willing any longer to subordinate their overall operation and their overall goals with destroying Hamas for the benefit of try -- for the benefit of those families who are waiting to hear about their loved ones. In a conflict of impossible situations, this is high among the most impossible.
NEWTON: The most impossible and you are reporting now at CNN shows that the Israeli government has possibly canceled the trip of one of those officials from Mossad and going to try to go to perhaps Qatar and try and restart negotiations for a pause. What do you make of that?
COOK: Well, everything you know is that the Israelis have remained interested in negotiations with Hamas, but that Hamas has not been forthcoming. And has led the Israelis to conclude that Hamas, and the countries by extension, are essentially wasting time by these negotiations. And as I said, it seems clear that the Israelis do not want to subordinate their overall goal to what they consider to be playing games with Hamas.
NEWTON: You know, when we talk about the United States, and the fact that it's looking a bit isolated, as well, now, on the international stage, you know, Biden's comments to donors the other day that Israel risks losing any international support it has left because of so called indiscriminate bombing in his words. I want you to listen now to our White House correspondent, MJ Lee, talk to a White House official about this and what his response was. Listen.
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LEE: I insist that the intent is there to minimize civilian casualties, when the President himself said yesterday that Israel is bombing indiscriminately.
JOHN KIRBY, U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL COORDINATOR: Sometimes in war, and again, I'm not speaking for the Israelis. Sometimes in war, your best plans, your best execution of those plans doesn't always go the way you want it to go. It doesn't always go the way you expect it to go.
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NEWTON: So you and I both know, a dodge when we see it. But in terms of what the President said and how they were trying to walk that back a bit. Do you believe they would eventually get punitive with Israel if they didn't like the way this war was being prosecuted in Gaza?
COOK: I think at the moment, what we're seeing is a rhetorical divergence between the United States and Israel. But on the substantive level, the United States remains fully committed to Israel's overall goals of destroying Hamas or rendering Hamas unable to threaten Israel's security. I'll point out that there were, you know, 10 airplane loads of equipment for the IDF that were recently delivered to Israel.
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And the President at the White House Hanukkah celebration, reiterated his firm commitment to Israel's right to defend itself. So, yes, there is a significant amount of international pressure bringing brought to bear on President Biden. And while he's willing to say those kinds of things to donors, at least publicly, he's not yet willing to take the Israelis to task nor has he been willing to take any action that would disrupt their military operations.
NEWTON: Yes, and again, the key word there are not the words, but the actions. Before I let you go, Israeli internal politics, you know, as complicated as ever, and perhaps returning to a point where they will be quite divisive again. What kind of impact do you think that will have on the prosecution of this war going forward?
COOK: Yes. Israelis have rallied around the flag since October 7th, but not Prime Minister Netanyahu and his government. And as this war moves into the next phase, as people expect it will in the in over the course of the next month, politics seems to be returning and Prime Minister Netanyahu himself has begun that process and is essentially going to run against the United States and the Palestinian Authority.
The United States wants to reinvigorate the Palestinian Authority and extend its authority to Gaza in the day after scenario. And Netanyahu is signaling that that's a non-starter for him. And that is essentially outreach to Israel's right wing, which would not support a reinvigorated Palestinian Authority or negotiations for a two-state solution, as the United States has proposed. So politics is going to come back and it's going to come back with a vengeance after this security disaster of October 7th.
NEWTON: Yes, which Benjamin Netanyahu has actually not quite faced yet in terms of taking any responsibility, verbally or publicly. Steven Cook, we will leave it there for now. Thanks so much.
COOK: Thank you.
NEWTON: Ukraine's President is working to bolster ties with members of the European Union after a disappointing visit to the United States that resulted in no new military aid for its fight against Russia. Volodymyr Zelenskyy met with Nordic leaders and also Wednesday, with the Norwegian Prime Minister pledging nearly $800 million in additional support for Ukraine.
In a little more than an hour, E.U. leaders will start arriving for the European Council summit in Brussels. And the E.U. chief is calling on members to give Ukraine a huge financial boost.
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URSULA VON DER LEYEN, EUROPEAN COMMISSION PRESIDENT: We must give Ukraine what it needs to be strong today so that it can be stronger tomorrow at the table when it is renegotiation, we're negotiating a long lasting and just peace for Ukraine.
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NEWTON: Now the Senate will also focus on Ukraine's bid for E.U. membership and whether to fast track ascension talks. But the Hungarian Prime Minister and ally of the Russian president is opposed to Ukraine joining the bloc,
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VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): First of all, it won't be an easy meeting. It won't be an easy Summit, which will start on December 14th. We are very contented that 99 percent of the member countries fully support Ukraine and that they are ready to start talks on future Ukraine's E.U. membership.
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NEWTON: I want to bring in Daniel Triesman now, a political science professor at the University of California in Los Angeles. Good to have you. We have a lot of things going on in the coming hours in addition to that European Council Summit we were just talking about. We are also just hours away from Vladimir Putin's annual press conference. You know, you and I have seen these before. They're long freewheeling events. And in the past, Putin has actually tolerated pointed questions from foreign journalists, even Zelenskyy right now predicts Putin is likely to be in high spirits is that warranted? DANIEL TREISMAN, POLITICAL SCIENCE PROFESSOR, UNIV. OF CALIFORNIA LOS ANGELES: I think he will be in high spirits. And I think he'll be really trying to project a certain image because this is in effect, the start of his reelection campaign. He just announced that he's running for reelection next March. Big surprise, of course, nobody expected him not to. But he'll want to come out now. And in this joint press conference and call in show, he'll want to demonstrate to ordinary Russians that he cares about them, that he's focused on their problems as well as international affairs.
And so he's going to try and look responsive. He'll be taking calls from Russians around the country, offering to -- promising to solve all their problems. And we'll probably see a little bit of the old Santa Claus strategy of offering different benefits to different groups. So that will be the big emphasis I think.
[01:15:08]
And then of course, we may see some gloating over the divisions in the West. He's delighted at the failure of Congress. We pass the additional aid for Ukraine. He's going -- he's also going to be delighted if the Europeans in the summit you just mentioned, fail to themselves decide on new aid for Ukraine with a Hungarian President Viktor Orban or Prime Minister Viktor Orban strongly against that.
So he's feels pretty good about his situation internationally at the moment. And right at the moment, at the front lines, too, he probably feels quite confident there's been a big Russian offensive in the last few days in the north, northeast, and in the rest of the frontlines fighting has more or less stalemate.
NEWTON: And that is probably something he was hoping for. He is shrewd and patient and we'll wait for this kind of a stalemate. And yet CNN is reporting that Russia lost a staggering 87 percent of the total number of active duty ground troops in the war with Ukraine, two thirds of its tanks, it's according to U.S. intelligence. Why does it seem that none of us matters to Vladimir Putin?
TREISMAN: Well, of course, it does matter. But in public, he's certainly going to skirt around questions to do with the military losses. So we understand from Russian, sorry, from U.S. and European intelligence that maybe 350,000 troops, Russian troops have been either killed or injured. The big problem that looms for next year for Putin is whether he's going to have to call for more conscription, another round of call ups of young men, that would be deeply unpopular.
And so later today in this press conference, I'm sure he'll have prepared carefully to avoid questions and (inaudible) quite possible questions related to that.
NEWTON: Yes, it is definitely tense, especially in the regions. I want to ask you about what's going on here in the United States. Some Republicans most recently senator, J.D. Vance, here on CNN, said that it was time for Ukraine to negotiate cede land, and they have two theories about this. One, is that look, Russia, this is a stalemate. It is something that has to be done. And secondly, they suggest that Putin wouldn't dare go any further into Europe and wouldn't dare try and capture Kyiv. Again, is he right on either point?
TREISMAN: Well, that's what they said before he invaded Ukraine, right? He wouldn't dare. I think that's a very bad starting point in trying to understand Vladimir Putin at this point. I think we have to recognize that if the fighting in Ukraine goes Russia's way, if they, God forbid, have a breakthrough, and manage to take more territory. First of all, we're going to see atrocities in the other areas of Ukraine that they haven't yet occupied. And then the mood in Moscow will be very buoyant. And the temptation will be great for them to take aim at some other places where there are ethnic Russians living such as the Baltic states, which are, of course, NATO members.
So I think it's very short sighted to think that we can actually save money by refusing to help Ukraine as it fights to defend itself. And instead just wait until we have to be more involved in a potential military conflict involving NATO states.
NEWTON: Yes. It was a surprising turn, especially from the Republican side of the Senate in terms of so many people now saying it is time to go to the negotiating table. We have to leave it there as we await this press conference. So Daniel Treisman for us, thanks so much.
TREISMAN: Thank you.
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NEWTON: House Republicans unite behind their impeachment inquiry into Joe Biden, coming up for why they've formally authorized the probe despite no evidence of wrongdoing.
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NEWTON: Despite no evidence of wrongdoing, U.S. House Republicans have now voted to formally authorize an impeachment inquiry into President Joe Biden. The probe into the Biden family's alleged foreign business dealings passed along party lines. With all Republicans voting for it and all Democrats opposed.
President Joe Biden released a statement after the vote saying quote, instead of doing anything to help make Americans lives better, they are focused on attacking me with lies. Instead of doing their job on the urgent work that needs to be done, they are choosing to waste time on this baseless political stunt that even Republicans in Congress admit is not supported by facts.
Now the vote came on the same day the President's son, Hunter, defied a subpoena to appear for closed door questioning. He says he's willing to testify publicly, but not in private. Listen.
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HUNTER BIDEN, PRESIDENT BIDEN'S SON: My father was not financially involved in my business, not as a practicing lawyer, not as a board member of Burisma, not my partnership with a Chinese private businessman, not in my investments at home nor abroad. It's certainly not as an artist.
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NEWTON: CNN chief congressional -- pardon me, we have gone to Ron, I apologize. We're supposed to go -- apologies. We'll get to Ron in a moment. But for now, let's go to Manu Raju for more.
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The House voted along straight party lines 221 to 212 to open up a formal impeachment inquiry into President Joe Biden. And it actually had been an impeachment inquiry on the books really since September, since Kevin McCarthy then the speaker of the House announced that it would move ahead but doesn't actually need to be a formal vote.
But Republicans contended that there needed to be a vote to give them more power, if they had to go to court to get records that they thought they had to fight people who are defying their subpoenas that this vote could help them push back in any of those claims that this was an illegitimate inquiry. But the reality is that they wanted to try to show that the conference was united behind the idea that impeachment investigation needed to happen.
But that's not to say that members are united about charging the President with high crimes or misdemeanors. In fact, many of them who I spoke with simply said that they have not seen enough evidence or proof that shows that Joe Biden acted corruptly in any way to benefit his son, Hunter Biden's, overseas business dealings. Several of them said, let's wait to see what evidence ultimately is gathered before we make the decision about charging him with a high crime or misdemeanor.
So even some top Republicans indicated it is still possible that Joe Biden could get exonerated in the months ahead.
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REP. RICHARD HUDSON (R-NC): Well vote today was a search for facts. And we're going to follow the facts wherever they lead. And if they exonerate the President, then we'll make that known to the American people.
RAJU: Can you guys really exonerate the President after all of this?
HUDSON: Well, we're following the facts. And a lot of these allegations are very serious, and you got to spend some time looking into them. And if we're wrong report that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: Speaker Mike Johnson faces a real challenge in the weeks and months ahead, because of the fact that are a number of Republicans who are pushing to get Joe Biden impeached. Yet there are several in those swing districts who say that they want to see much more information before they're willing to vote for impeachment. This drumbeat is going to get louder on the right to push for impeachment while Mike Johnson in that razor thin majority cannot afford to lose more than three Republican votes in order to move forward with impeachment. So it remains to be seen where Republicans go as they are now moving ahead in this impeachment inquiry after this party line vote.
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Manu Raju, CNN, Capitol Hill.
NEWTON: And now it is time for Ron Brownstein, CNN senior political analyst. Ron, we had to get through all of that first. Manu had to explain to us what the heck went down today. So now we have both Democrats and Republicans with matching impeachment proceedings to president. I'm going to state the obvious this has become a political tool, right, Ron, and it's being wielded with pretty blunt force?
RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, first of all, I always defer to Manu on all things congressional.
NEWTON: As we --
BROWNSTEIN: -- get out of the way. Look, yes, I think this is more about Donald Trump than it is about Joe Biden. I mean, it is respectively about trying to strengthen Trump against Biden if Trump is the nominee, again. And I think it's retrospective in that Trump is trying to kind of post hoc delegitimize the two impeachments that he faced by having Biden face one of his own. I mean, the question I -- you know, it's a little surprising that 18, I guess 70 now as Santos gone. House Republicans in districts the Biden carried were willing to go this far. We'll see if they go the next step.
NEWTON: Yes, it will be interesting. They keep saying that they need evidence. So we'll see. Now while all this is going on, Congress is leaving everything on the floor and not in a good way, right? They're letting it fall on the floor. It doesn't seem like anything will get done not on spending deal, not on military aid for Ukraine. I'm interested to hear from you if you believe that Americans will, you know, continue to tolerate the deadlock in D.C. or will it maybe play a role in next fall's elections?
BROWNSTEIN: Well, first of all, it's not only an absence of evidence tying Biden to wrongdoing, there's the president -- the presence of evidence refuting their claims, you know, in terms of testimony from Hunter Biden's business partner among others, that he had no substantive involvement in their work and did no favors other than perhaps, lapses in judgment and getting on the phone with his son, when he was trying to impress clients wouldn't be the first person lobbyists in Washington to try to impress people that, you know, he's, you know, in with important folks.
But look, this issue historically, you know, congressional dysfunction has not been a huge problem for the majority party. I mean, we have faced congressional dysfunction more often than not over the past few decades. But in 2022, we did see an unusual pattern. I mean, we saw an unprecedented number of voters who were dissatisfied with the way things were going in the economy -- in the country, disenchanted with the economy maybe disenchanted as well with Joe Biden's performance, who voted for Democrats anyway, because they viewed the Republican alternative as too extreme. And that was why Republicans didn't get anywhere near the gains that they are most analysts expected. And all of this impeachment against the backdrop of failing to deal with critical issues like at Ukraine and Israel in fact, that remains stalemated possibility government shutdown. All of that is more ammunition for Democrats to make that case in 2024.
NEWTON: Do you think that immigration, you and I have talked about this before, do you think immigration it continues to be a drain, a crisis, not just for border towns now, but in many cities, do you think there's any hope that any kind of bipartisan deal will happen there?
BROWNSTEIN: Yes, I mean, look, I think there is a win for Republicans on a policy standpoint, if they're willing to take it on a political standpoint. I mean, the White House is made very clear that Joe Biden is willing to make concessions on aspects of immigration law, particularly the standards required for people to claim asylum, maybe some other issues dealing with how quickly people are deported and when their claims are rejected, and so forth.
If they are willing to take it, he's willing to give I think, probably more than many on the left would prefer both as the price of getting the aid to Israel and Ukraine that he wants, but also because he needs to reposition himself and clearly wants to reposition himself on this issue in 2024. Republicans may or may not be willing to take yes for an answer.
I mean, you know, they're going to they know that whatever agreement they reach is going to be attacked by Donald Trump, who would prefer that the whole thing stalemate, and not incidentally starve Ukraine against Putin as part of it's kind of a win-win for him, if the whole thing breaks down. So we'll see if there are enough Republicans willing to take yes for an answer, because I think the evidence is pretty clear that Biden is going to go further than most Democrats want and being willing to make a deal with Republicans and immigration, if that's the price of getting these other two priorities through.
NEWTON: Yes, that is such a good way to put it because so many people have noted right now that not making a deal is likely what the former president wants and what his allies may fall on Capitol Hill. Ron, I will leave it there but good evening to you. Really appreciate it.
[01:30:03]
BROWNSTEIN: Thanks for having me.
NEWTON: Now, Israeli forces are testing out a new approach to degrade the vast Hamas tunnel network in Gaza and they are doing it with seawater. We will explain.
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NEWTON: And welcome back. You are watching CNN NEWSROOM.
I'm Paula Newton.
Family members of some of the Israelis still being held hostage by Hamas are expressing outrage and demanding answers after the Israeli government canceled a trip to Qatar by the Mossad chief. It was supposed to be aimed at restarting talks on a possible second hostage release deal. CNN has learned this information from a source.
Now, the families of eight American hostages who met with U.S. President Joe Biden at the White House on Wednesday are praising the president for his efforts to secure the release of their family members.
One man, whose son was captured by Hamas on October 7th, says the administration has been in frequent, very transparent contact with the families.
And joining me now from Singapore is Iris Weinstein Haggai, her parents Judi and Gad have been missing since October 7th and believed to be taken hostage by Hamas.
Iris, it is good to see you again. I really appreciate you taking the time to update us. I know you are up at all hours desperately trying to get information.
I believe that you virtually attended that meeting. What can you tell us and do you share the optimism that some of the families shared (ph) with their in-person (ph)?
IRIS WEINSTEIN HAGGAI, BELIEVES THAT PARENTS WERE TAKEN BY HAMAS: Hi, Paula. Nice talking to you again.
I definitely share the same thoughts, you know. I was speaking about my parents, you know, their story is not really easy. My mom was the perfect profile to be released during the Hamas list reality show, and she wasn't.
And president Biden and the whole administration knew exactly who I was talking about, the story, who my mom was. It was very clear to me that they see these people not just as hostages but they know each and every story, they connect with these people, they know they are grandparents, parents, sons, brothers, sisters, and they really understand from their hearts that these people need to be released as soon as possible.
And I completely got the same impression as Jonathan (INAUDIBLE) said, that we couldn't have a better friend in the White House than President Biden and the whole administration.
[01:34:57]
NEWTON: And I'm sure that empathy and support means so much. And you and I have discussed much before, but the fact that, you know, your family -- a lot of families would like some kind of proof of life, whether Hamas was supposed to let the Red Cross in to be able to give some indication about how the hostages were doing, that didn't happen. I know you are not able to tell us, but do you hear anything that is able to put your mind at ease a little bit in the last few days?
HAGGAI: I didn't hear anything specific. I know that, you know, the ICRC is being talked to and I'm hoping -- I have meetings with them, I'm hoping that Hamas will let them in.
You know, at the end of the day, as I always say, we are dealing with a terror group. And you know, it is not like very great organization that has its soldiers waiting to meet the ICRC.
So it is not as easy as it sounds, but I am desperate and that word is not even desperate enough to have them come in, because I have no idea, you know, where my mom is, my dad -- I have no proof of life. No one has seen my mom from the released hostages and I know most of them.
You know, it has been 69 days. This is -- today is the last day of Hanukkah, which is the last candle that we light and you know, even president Biden -- it was very clear that he knew that our lights were off.
You know, we are still stuck in October 7th and I'm pleading to -- with the ICRC, the Red Cross, just do anything you can to, you know, fulfill your mandate, you know, get the medicine to people who need it. You know, we are hearing these horrible, horrific stories from the released hostages about what is going on there.
You know, this one amazing woman from my kibbutz, she said she used to save a pita bread, you know, behind her back and these are like Holocaust stories. She saved it behind her back so she could have food for the next day. And that is just horrific.
That is, you know, just one story, but what about, you know, the sexual abuse, the just unfathomable things, I mean. We need every source of help we can.
This is a humanitarian crisis. We need it resolved, not only for the hostages, but also for the Palestinian people who are really oppressed, now more than ever.
And I --
NEWTON: Iris, I know and you have told me before how your parents, who lived so close to Gaza, felt about that.
I have to ask you, given what CNN is reporting about the chief of the Mossad now not going to Qatar, not that it is involved in politics so much, not that you want to get involved in that, but does that make you a little bit more pessimistic, like you were really counting on having a second hostage deal and quickly?
HAGGAI: You know, I'm not a politician. I can only hope that whatever is done is being done in the hostage's favor. I don't know the decisions behind that decision. Of course, it kind of shook me, you know -- nobody should ever say no to release hostages.
But at the same time, you know, it is just part of the whole picture. I don't know the whole picture. We can all make our decisions according to a sentence in the media, but at the end of the day there is a bigger picture that we need to know about that maybe we cannot know about, you know?
But of course, you know, any deal as far as I'm concerned -- just get these people out of that nightmare. If you hear the released hostages stories, really, and I think everybody should hear them because this type of evil should not exist in the world.
And another thing that the American government did was, you know, impose more sanctions for every individual entities who are involved with Hamas. So, it really shows how dedicated, you know, the United States is to this horrible, horrible situation.
NEWTON: Iris, thank you again for all of your courage, all of your time. It helps us better understand exactly what the situation for families like yours and again so many of us have no idea what you are going through, but know that so many support you as you try and get your family members back. Thank you so much.
HAGGAI: Everybody back. Thank you so much.
NEWTON: Now, a U.S. official says Israeli forces are testing a new strategy to try and degrade the Hamas tunnel network in Gaza by flooding them with sea water.
[01:39:54]
NEWTON: It is being done on a limited basis for now to see if the operation could be scaled up. But it also comes with risks.
CNN's Nic Robertson reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: The tunnels themselves are big. Big enough for fighters and their weapons. Seen here, in this Hamas propaganda video which was also posted by the Israel Defense Force. They are reinforced with concrete, too.
Two years ago, Hamas claimed to have built 500 kilometers, more than 300 miles of them. The tunnels are spread all over Gaza. This map over two years old.
The IDF says they have discovered 800 tunnel shafts so far-- and have destroyed 500 of them. The entrances are often well hidden.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a 20-meter tunnel.
ROBERTSON: As I was shown by the IDF, they're Gaza hospital, really well hidden which means the tunnels can be really hard to find.
The idea of flooding the tunnels using the abundant seawater that's along the many miles of Gaza's Mediterranean shore is apparently a creative idea. Not just to destroy Hamas and quite literally flush them out, but also to reach the parts of tunnels that might never be discovered from above ground.
Now, it's not without its risks. There could be hostages in those tunnels. There are very few details about how precisely the water is getting into those tunnels, how much water, how fast it's going in, or what you do if you suddenly discover you are flooding hostages.
Other than the IDF say they have begun carefully testing it and that this method is being trialed on a limited, limited basis.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the tunnel --
ROBERTSON: Some of the tunnels are thought to be five floors deep. Some of the hostages who were freed have described them.
This elderly hostage helped by her daughter.
YOCHEVED LIFSHITZ, FORMER HAMAS HOSTAGE (through translator): He began walking inside the tunnels with the wet ground. It was moist all the time.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There are huge, huge networks of tunnels underneath. It looks like a spider web.
ROBERTSON: The IDF says it will proceed cautiously to make sure they are not flooding tunnels where the hostages are being held.
It's significant that more than six weeks into the ground campaign, this full scale of the tunnel problem is only now really becoming apparent, even controlling the streets above.
It's not enough to locate all the tunnels, so flooding seems to be the new best option to really probe the extent of the invisible subterranean network. Both destroying Hamas hiding there and denying it their use.
Of course, a key caveat in success here is if you can't find the tunnel, and it's not connected to a system you are already flooding, how effective can you be about flooding it and knowing that you're hitting, destroying, the whole of the tunnel network?
Nic Robertson, CNN -- London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NEWTON: After an attack on a Turkish football referee, officials say they hope this is finally a turning point on preventing violence against those officials. Our details, next.
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NEWTON: So lemurs are unique to the African island of Madagascar, but they are now under threat. Experts say these iconic animals, and they're cute too, may be extinct by 2035 due to deforestation and hunting. Today, on "Call to Earth", we follow a renowned conservationist into
the forest where his organization has been working with local communities to protect these endangered animals.
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BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT: In the forests of Madagascar, you will find a uniquely biodiverse ecosystem. Thousands of plant and animal species are endemic to this small island off the southeastern coast of Africa.
And most famous among them is a peculiar looking creature with large eyes, long tail, and a hearty set of vocal cords.
JONAH RATSIMBAZAFY, LEMUR CONSERVATIONIST: We are here inside the forest and that is the sound of the largest lemurs, the Indris, they give a call. Listen. Wow. Yes, we will find them. We will find them.
Lemurs are unique for Madagascar. We don't have the statue of liberty, we don't have diesel power, we don't have pyramid of Egypt, but we have lemurs.
WEIR: Jonah Ratsimbazafy has dedicated over 20 years of his life to saving the small primates which are facing an uphill battle for survival.
RATSIMBAZAFY: And they can give a very loud call -- oh, oh.
WEIR: According to the International Union for Conservation and Nature, 98 percent of lemur species are threatened with extinction while nearly a third are critically endangered.
RATSIMBAZAFY: It is very, very difficult to find them in the forest, and that is when you have working hours to find them.
WEIR: Most of the lemurs time is spent in trees where they live in small groups.
RATSIMBAZAFY: Lemurs are like fish. Fish cannot survive outside of the water, and the lemurs cannot survive outside of the forest. But we only have less than 10 percent of the lemurs left now in Madagascar. Deforestation, slash and burn, mining, these are the problems that the lemurs are facing.
WEIR: And award-winning primatologist, Jonah is a founding member of GERP, conservation program that works with local communities to help protect lemurs.
RATSIMBAZAFY: GERP started in 2015. It was really difficult because the community was not very welcome to us when we started, so they need proof that we are there as their friends to support them.
And the goal is, how can we save the unique biodiversity while helping people in the spirit of collaboration.
WEIR: Trust isn't the only challenge he and his team encountered. Hunting and the pet trade are also issues of concern.
RATSIMBAZAFY: Conservation is always difficult when people get less access to food, lack access health care, and lack access to education. And when people are poor, it is hard for them to save the lemurs.
WEIR: But he says their education and advocacy driven approach is working.
RATSIMBAZAFY: So, the result is in the last seven years, zero fire, zero pressure, and that is because of good relationship between GERP and the local community. And this is a good example all over the country right now. And we want to use that model to the rest of Madagascar and why not to the rest of the world.
WEIR: While he recognizes that the species is up against some challenging odds, Jonah continues to try and hope from the next generation.
RATSIMBAZAFY: I am not alone in this fight. I have the team, I have the students. Of course sometimes I want to be discouraged but when I see the (INAUDIBLE) of the young people working, encouraging, don't give up. Let's do it. You can make it. And that makes me believe we can save our lemurs.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
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NEWTON: Let us know what you are doing to answer the call with the #CalltoEarth.
We will take a short break. We'll be back in a moment.
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NEWTON: A woman once dubbed Australia's worst serial killer has finally cleared her name. Kathleen Folbigg spent 20 years in prison after being convicted of killing her four young children over a ten- year span.
On Thursday, she received a formal pardon after an independent inquiry found reasonable doubt about her conviction. New scientific evidence has showed the deaths may have been caused by genetic factors, but Folbigg, who has been out of prison since June, says the initial lack of science was not the only problem in her case.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KATHLEEN FOLBIGG, EXONERATED OF KILLING HER FOUR CHILDREN: I'm grateful that updated science and genetics has given me answers as to how my children died.
However, even in 1999, we had legal answers to prove my innocence. They were ignored and dismissed.
The system preferred to blame me rather than accept that sometimes children can and do die suddenly, unexpectedly, and heartbreakingly. I think the system and society needs to think before they blame a parent of hurting their children.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEWTON: Naveen Razik (ph) from CNN affiliate SBS has more now on Folbigg's ordeal.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NAVEEN RAZIK, SBS JOURNALIST: Kathleen Folbigg's fight for justice stretches more than two decades. In 2003, she was found guilty of the murder of children Patrick, Sara, and Laura. An And the manslaughter of eldest son, Caleb.
But today, the top criminal appeals court in New South Wales quashed her conviction, finding there is now reasonable doubt as to Miss Folbigg's guilt.
The historic decision was informed by a landmark inquiry handed down in June that led to her pardon by the state government and released from jail.
The inquiry scrutinized Miss Folbigg's diaries, which were presented as key evidence in her 2003 trial. Prosecutors argued she had suffocated her children because she had a low threshold of stress, and had resented them for intruding on her life.
But the inquiry and the appeals (INAUDIBLE) those diary entries were not reliable admissions of guilt. The guilty verdict was also questioned by the scientific community, who have since presented substantial new evidence finding identifiable genetic causes for the deaths of her children.
Kathleen Folbigg supporters say they have never doubted her innocence, calling for substantial legal reforms here in Australia. Miss Folbigg is now seeking compensation from the New South Wales state government. The payout could be in the millions of dollars.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NEWTON: And our thanks to Naveen Razik from SBS Australia.
The Turkish football referee who was punched by a club president after a game earlier this week has been released from hospital. The chief doctor of the hospital says the referee has some swelling in his eye, but overall he is fine and will recover and is in good spirits. Turkey's football league is set to resume matches on Tuesday.
CNN's Scott McLean has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A moment of rage from a top tier club boss becomes a moment of shame for Turkish football. After his Ankaragucu Club concedes the goal late in the match on Monday, Faruk Koca storms onto the pitch and punches the referee in the face. Two others kick him while he is down.
[01:54:46]
MCLEAN: Shortly after, the referee emerges from the scrum with a very noticeable black eye. The ref is escorted off the field under police protection. The club president, though, needs none, as he waves to the crowd.
On Tuesday, Koca was arrested in Ankara, charged with injuring a public official. He told Turkish state news agency Anadolu his violent outburst was because of the ref's decisions during the match. A day later, he stepped down.
The incident has attracted nationwide condemnation, even the Turkish president called the ref in his hospital bed.
His doctor explained the prognosis.
"There is a small crack," he said, "but what makes us happy is that there was no brain damage."
The Turkish Football Federation has suspended all professional matches until next week, but in Istanbul, some fans are more shocked by that decision than the violence itself.
Several pointed us to this incident in 2015 when shots were fired at the (INAUDIBLE) team bus after a match, injuring the driver.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The car was literally shot by firearms and the league wasn't suspended. Now it is suspended just because one referee is attacked? I don't support it, I think it is very wrong.
MCLEAN: The Referee Association called it a black mark on Turkish football and the culmination of an increasing level of abuse directed their way.
"We hope that this incident, to which the entire public should react and condemn, will become a turning point," it said in a statement. While fans in Turkey widely condemned the violence, some also insist there is another serious problem.
Do you think the problem is the referees are not very good?
"They are not trained very well," he says.
And it is not just Turkey's soul searching. The incident has sparked a wider debate across Europe about respect for referees.
DARREN LEWIS, CNN SENIOR SPORTS ANALYST: This is a criminal act within a sporting occasion, but I don't think any country in European football is blameless in terms of the lack of respect for the people who officiate our games.
MCLEAN: Scott McLean, CNN -- Istanbul.
(END VIDEOTAPE) NEWTON: I'm Paula Newton. CNN continues here with my friend and colleague, Rosemary Church.
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