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U.S. and Israel Holding Intense Talks on the Next Phase of War; Ukraine Now Considering their Accession to the European Union; Russian President Questioned over a Deep Fake Video in a Year End News Conference; CNN's Inside Look in Southern Gaza; Jake Sullivan Holds a News Conference after Meeting with Israeli Leaders. Aired 3-4a ET
Aired December 15, 2023 - 03:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[03:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN CORRESPONDENT AND ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. I'm Kristie Lu Stout, live in Hong Kong. Ahead right here on "CNN Newsroom."
High level talks underway right now between Israel and the United States as Israel's official says, the days are numbered for the leader of Hamas.
The unimaginable devastation in Gaza. Now CNN gets a firsthand look inside one of the few hospitals with space left for patients.
Plus, the European Union is considering an expansion which would include Ukraine, but that means for future aid requests as the country's war with Russia rages on.
Now the head of the U.N. agency for Palestinian refugees warns that social order in Gaza is teetering on the edge of a possible implosion. More than two months into Israel's war on Hamas, the World Food Program says half of Gaza's 2.3 million residents are starving. UNRWA commissioner-general Felipe Lazzarini says huge crowds of hungry people are stopping U.N. aid trucks as they cross into Gaza and helping themselves to food. He says that's making it nearly impossible to get aid further into the area and imperiling future deliveries.
Meanwhile, a senior U.S. official says that Israel is working to eliminate the highest-ranking Hamas leader in Gaza, who it accuses of masterminding the October 7 attacks. The U.S. official says, quote, "it's safe to say Yahya Sinwar's days are numbered."
CNN's Melissa Bell joins me now live from Paris. And Melissa, we know that Biden's national security advisor is in the region. He's meeting with top Israeli officials, including the president right now. This comes as the U.S. is applying the pressure on Israel to de-escalate. What is the latest from these talks?
MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, what we're hearing is that they've had a series of discussions. He's met not just with the Israeli war cabinet, but with Mossad leaders as well to get a clearer picture of what's been happening on the ground in Gaza. With those cracks appearing between the positions of the Israelis and the Americans, first of all, in the question of the phases of this war, the United States urging Israel to move to a different phase, a lower intensity phase, and one that relies on intelligence for targeted strikes against Hamas rather than the bombing campaign that we've seen so far, the aim of the United States to limit civilian casualties.
But there's also disagreement, Kristie, on the question of what happens after Hamas. And Benjamin Netanyahu spoke to that just a couple of days ago, speaking to that difference of view.
The United States, we understand, and this has been part of Jake Sullivan's message, that the Palestinian Authority should have regain control over the Gaza Strip after this is finished. And that is something that for the time being the Israelis have ruled out. And that is likely to be very much at the heart of the discussions between Jake Sullivan and Mahmoud Abbas when he makes his way to Ramallah later today.
We've also been hearing from American officials, as you mentioned a moment ago, that it is Yahya Sinwar who is one of the biggest aims of the Israelis right now. It is just a matter of time we understand before justice is served. He is very much the target of the Israeli campaign as they seek to make progress inside the Gaza Strip. Kristie.
LU STOUT: And Melissa, there is a grim update about the fate of one hostage. What have you learned?
BELL: 28-year-old Elia Toledano, he is a French citizen, we've just learned from France's foreign minister. His body's been recovered by the IDF and now been returned to Israel, where it's undergoing tests, forensic tests, to find out exactly how he died and what happened to him during his captivity.
[03:04:45]
It comes, Kristie, even as negotiations continue to try and find a place where the resumption of talks about a pause could take place. But for now, from both the Israeli side and a spokesman for Hamas speaking from Beirut, we're hearing that the conditions aren't being met by either side, that the resumption of talks could continue.
The United States very much involved also in those talks in the hope that the more than 130 hostages still inside the Gaza Strip may be able to find their way out. It comes also, Kristie, as the Israelis announced that they've begun the limited flooding of some of the tunnels inside the Gaza Strip, this has been part of their strategy to try and flush out Hamas militants.
We'd heard anger expressed from some of the families of the hostages over fears that their loved ones may be impacted by this. The Israelis insist that they are not aiming to flood the tunnels in which civilians might be found.
We've also been hearing from Hamas spokesmen, though, that these tunnels were designed specifically to avoid any kind of threats, including the threat of flooding, and that they would be able to withstand such a thing. So a great deal of focus on the fate of those hostages and where they are exactly and on what hopes there might be that at some point these talks might resume to get them out, Kristie.
LU STOUT: Yeah, concern remains very, very high for the fate of these hostages. Melissa Bell reporting, thank you.
Now our colleague Kaitlan Collins spoke earlier with Mark Regev, senior advisor to the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu about the situation in Gaza and just how far Israel plans to take its fight against Hamas. And here is some of that conversation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK REGEV, SR. ADVISER TO THE ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: Well, we have to fight this war. It wasn't a war that we sought, but it's a war that we've been forced to fight and we have to win it. Because leaving Hamas in power in the Gaza Strip is just to condemn us all to more bloodshed in the future. Hamas says openly that they would repeat the October 7th attack again and again and again. Their words, they would continue to try to butcher our people.
And frankly, Kaitlan, Israelis just refuse to live any longer with this terrorist threat on our southern border. We will, as our defense minister said, we will eliminate this terror threat and so Israelis do not have to live in fear, terrorists crossing the frontier and butchering their children. No one should have to live like that. We refuse to live like that.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR, "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS": But what about the scenes in Gaza? I mean, I understand Israel's purpose with Hamas. I mean, that's been made quite clear. But the scenes you just saw, a little girl with her femur crushed, one child with a disfigured face, calling out thinking a nurse was his father. I mean, what is your reaction to seeing what is happening inside of Gaza?
REGEV: So obviously it's an ongoing tragedy. But your reporter was visiting a field hospital established by the United Arab Emirates, a field hospital that Israel has encouraged.
And there are other countries that are setting up field hospitals. And this is part of a humanitarian effort that Israel is facilitating, that Israel is supporting, that Israel is encouraging other countries to get involved as well.
We want to see, as we pursue Hamas, who is a bitter and brutal enemy, we want to see a maximum humanitarian effort for the people of Gaza, that anyone who has been injured in the crossfire between the Israeli Defense Forces and the Hamas terrorists, that there'll be medical support for them, other humanitarian support. We understand that's part of our values, part of our moral values, but we also understand that this is also successful counter-terrorism. We've got to show that our enemy is only the terrorists and that we will do what needs to be done to support the Gazan civilian population. COLLINS: Well, I should note that field hospital that Clarissa
visited, the doctors told her there it is the only one in that area that has any hospital beds left and has very few left. But let me ask you about CNN reporting that nearly half of the air-to-ground munitions that Israel has been using in Gaza since October 7th have been these unguided munitions, they're known as dumb bombs. Would that not undercut the claim from Israel that you were trying to minimize the civilian casualties given the very nature, the imprecise nature of these weapons?
REGEV: Not at all. Obviously, we're using different munitions, the sort of munitions that the US Army uses as well. And if you read your own report, the CNN report closely, you will see that the Israeli Air Force actually adopts tactics in the way we use these weapons to make them precision guided, as good as precision guided weapons. Because the idea that Israel just randomly targets Gaza, that we carpet upon the place, that's just frankly not true.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LU STOUT: Mark Regev there. Now with Israel making it clear that it will keep on fighting, Turkey says it's on Washington to ensure permanent ceasefire. Now that's what Turkey's President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said in a phone call with his U.S. counterpart, Joe Biden. That's according to a readout from the Turkish government.
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And President Erdogan said that the way to do that is to use American support for Israel as leverage.
Scott McLean joins us now live from Istanbul. And Scott, earlier you pointed out that this is the first time that the two leaders have spoken since the war began. So what came out of it?
SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You'd love to be a fly on the wall for this conversation, Kristie, because of course, these two leaders have taken wildly divergent paths when it comes to their commentary and their support or criticism of what's happening in Israel and Gaza. Of course, the United States continues to be Israel's biggest backer. Turkey is one of its biggest critics. And when you read the two respective readouts of this call, it's remarkable how little crossover that there is. In fact, there's no clear indication from those two documents that they really agreed on anything.
President Biden, according to the White House version, says that he made clear the United States stands by Israel's right to defend itself. The Turkish version says that Erdogan pushed the United States to withdraw its unconditional support in order to get a ceasefire. And part of the fundamental problem here, Kristie, is that the U.S. and Turkey simply view Israel and they view Hamas also very, very differently.
And one example that illustrates that is the conversation that I had with Erdogan's chief advisor for foreign policy and security this week. And I asked him about unconfirmed reports that the leader of Hamas himself was actually in this country on October 7th when the Hamas attack on Israel began.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCLEAN: Was Hamas leader Ismail Hernia in Turkey on October 7th?
AKIF KAGATAY KILIC, CHIEF ADVISOR TO TURKISH PRESIDENT ON FOREIGN POLICY, SECURITY: Well, I'm not totally aware of his whereabouts in the world, so I cannot answer on that.
MCLEAN: Is it possible that he was here?
KILIC: It might have been.
MCLEAN: And that wouldn't be an issue for Turkey?
KILIC: Like I said, they have been. We are talking on the issue in the light of today's events. But the reality is that in the past, for example, the Israeli government itself had asked us, and I'm referring to more than 10 years ago, to engage with Hamas, to work with them, even former prime ministers, as we see from our records, state records, have been asked by even Netanyahu to engage with Hamas. So we were trying, and we are still trying, to bring about peace, and we're doing whatever it takes to achieve that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCLEAN: So Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has called Israel previously a terror state, called the Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu a war criminal, and Turkey is insistent that Israel be tried for war crimes when this is all over. But I asked his chief advisor whether it would also push for Hamas to be prosecuted for war crimes and the answer was deflected several times, in fact Kilic went on to quote the U.N. Secretary General Antonio Guterres who said that the attack on October 7th did not happen in a vacuum. Kristie?
LU STOUT: Scott McLean reporting live for us. Thank you Scott.
Now the White House says that the U.S. will push for a stronger international response to Houthi attacks on commercial shipping. That's after the latest attack by the Iranian allies in this key shipping lane between Yemen and Africa. On Thursday, the U.S. military said that the Houthis fired a missile at the cargo ship Maersk- Gibraltar, which was reportedly headed to Israel.
The statement says the crew and the vessel are fine, even though the Houthis threatened more attacks. Now, they've been going after international ships since the war in Gaza broke out, saying any vessel bound for Israel is a potential target. Earlier attacks, including hijacking this cargo ship, the Galaxy Leader, which was taken to Yemen.
Now, eight people are suspected of planning attacks on Jewish institutions have been arrested in Germany, Denmark, and the Netherlands. Israeli authorities say that the suspects were, quote, "acting on behalf of the Hamas terrorist organization," but they didn't provide any further details. More now from Brian Todd. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The terror group waging war on Israel allegedly attempts strikes at Jewish targets in Europe. Germany's federal prosecutor says three people just arrested in Germany were long-standing members of Hamas and are suspected of having planned attacks on Jewish institutions in Europe. A fourth person was arrested in connection with the same case in the Netherlands. Their alleged mission was to locate an underground cache of weapons and bring them to Berlin for attacks on Jewish sites in Europe.
PETER BERGEN, AUTHOR, "JIHAD: INVESTIGATING AMERICA'S HOMEGROWN TERRORISTS": So far, Hamas has tended to focus exclusively on Israel guards at the West Bank. So to me this is surprising. It's kind of new. It suggests a new development of Hamas' ambitions.
[03:15:04]
TODD (voice-over): German prosecutors saying the three in Germany were closely linked to Hamas' military leadership and receiving orders from Hamas leaders in Lebanon.
BERGEN: That would imply to me that they were ordered by the military leadership of Hamas to go to Europe and try and do something.
TODD (voice-over): In addition, at least four other arrests were reported in Denmark and the Netherlands as well. Authorities saying they are not directly related to the other case. But Israeli intelligence saying those arrested in Denmark were terrorists acting on behalf of Hamas, and the arrests thwarted an attack, the goal of which was to kill innocent civilians.
Security at synagogues, Jewish centers and Jewish schools has already been dialed up in Europe since the Israel-Hamas war began and American officials recently warning of an increased threat of terrorism against the U.S. as well.
CHRISTOPHER WRAY, FBI DIRECTOR: Hamas or another foreign terrorist organization may exploit the current conflict to conduct attacks here on our own soil.
TODD (voice-over): All of this comes as the Department of Homeland Security and the FBI this week warned Americans more broadly of threats around the holidays, saying the war could heighten the threat of lone actor violence targeting large public gatherings throughout the winter. including holiday related and faith-based events.
DONELL HARVIN, FORMER HOMELAND SECURITY CHIEF: It's a holiday, so people are congregating in malls, people are going to shopping centers, people are going to houses of worship, which are particularly vulnerable and have been targeted before, we know.
TODD (voice-over): Terrorists have targeted holiday festivals before in Europe. And a year ago on New Year's Eve in New York's Times Square, a man with a machete attacked police officers. TODD: U.S. officials say the latest warning about the heightened
threat of violence inside the U.S. over the holidays is not in response to any specific plotting activity. As for Hamas' possible reach inside the U.S., experts say the group's most realistic threat is its ability to inspire lone actors to commit violence.
Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LU STOUT: And we have developing news this hour. Iranian state media says 11 police officers have been killed in what it calls a terrorist attack. What happened at a police station in the southeast of Iran in an area that borders Pakistan and Afghanistan. A separatist group known as the Army of Justice has in recent years claimed several attacks on Iranian security forces, saying that they're fighting for the minority Baluch community, which faces significant discrimination.
You're watching "CNN Newsroom." And up next, a European Union that is not entirely united. Why Hungary is against a landmark decision to consider Ukraine as a member.
Plus, Russia's president addresses speculation that he uses body doubles and State TV plays a deep fake video to help him make his point.
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LU STOUT: Now in the next hour, E.U. leaders will begin the final day of their summit in Brussels with the Israel-Hamas war and the fight against anti-Semitism and Islamophobia on the agenda. Now this comes after the E.U. announced it would begin membership talks for Ukraine as well as Moldova, a move being hailed as historic.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHARLES MICHEL, EUROPEAN COUNCIL PRESIDENT: This is a historic moment and shows the credibility of the European Union, the strength of the European Union. It's a very powerful political signal. It's a very powerful political decision. And today and tonight, I think to the people of Ukraine, we are on their side.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LU STOUT: Now, the Ukrainian President says the decision is a big win, especially as his country waits in a stalled aid package from the U.S. worth tens of billions of dollars. But Volodymyr Zelenskyy also recognizes that becoming part of the E.U. won't happen overnight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Today we have the decision to start negotiations on joining the E.U. After this step there will be further ones. It's a big job to integrate the state, all institutions, all norms, all this to the European Union. but we'll do it. Ukraine has proven more than once what it's capable of. There will be another victorious decision. There will be a time when we can celebrate Ukraine's accession to the E.U. Now in Ukraine, many people are in high spirits, and this is important. It is motivation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LU STOUT: Now there is opposition, though, from Hungary's prime minister, who says Ukraine is in no position right now to begin accession talks. Viktor Orban also vetoed a $55 billion aid package for Ukraine earlier on Friday.
Now Bianca Nobilo is in Brussels with the very latest. She joins us now. Bianca, Hungary is blocking funding for Ukraine just hours after the E.U. agreed to start membership talks for Ukraine. What's the latest coming out of this summit?
BIANCA NOBILO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kristie, it appears that two concessions may have been just too much for Viktor Orban to sell back to his domestic audience in Hungary. Frankly, it was very unexpected that he didn't veto the decision to allow Ukraine to move towards its next step on the path of European Union membership.
It all happened in a fairly surprising way. We understand that the German Chancellor Olaf Scholz, after going through all of Orban's arguments against Ukraine, taking this next step bit by bit he presented him the idea that actually Orban could just leave the room and be absent from the vote so therefore he doesn't have to be a part of it, he can sell that back to his domestic audience but yet the E.U. can continue with their plan to bring Ukraine closer into its fold and that's ultimately what happened but then Orban did decide to block this 50 billion euros earmarked for the future of Ukraine's economy, not to mention other lethal aid packages that are being discussed.
So essentially what we're seeing this week, as far as Volodymyr Zelenskyy is concerned, is a big diplomatic and symbolic win. But there was disappointment leaving the United States, and now there are no tangible, cold hard cash commitments going to him at this stage. So that is going to be delayed until January, which will be a really key moment for Ukraine, Kristie. But it's a historic day.
We know that Ukraine wanting to become closer to the European Union was a large part of what Putin was resisting back in 2014 and with his invasion of Ukraine. It's anathema to him for Ukraine to be moving deeper into the European fold.
LU STOUT: Ukraine desperately needs military aid now. Hungary blocking aid for Ukraine with Orban looking after his domestic audience at home. Is there a deal to be reached that could bring Viktor Orban to the table?
NOBILO: Potentially, and there is optimism being sounded from the leaders of the member states that a deal could be reached in January. So that's when these discussions have been postponed until. Of course there's the option for individual nations to do this out of
their domestic budgets. We had that commitment from the German Chancellor Olaf Scholz doubling down on his allotment of funds to Ukraine for aid and lethal aid. So all of the countries can do that individually.
But the trouble with that is it just isn't the same kind of guarantee. It's not the sort of long-term commitment that would be offered by this 50-billion-euro injection, which would ideally be used over four years and would make Ukraine feel more solid in terms of sustaining its economy over the next year. So that's been postponed until January. Maybe it will be a more palatable decision for Orban to make, not to veto it then, not to block it then. But he's got elections to think about, as do all the European leaders next year as well.
LU STOUT: Bianca Nobilo, live for us in Brussels. Thank you.
[03:25:08]
Now in Ukraine itself, at least two people have been killed in Russian shelling on the southern Kherson region. That's according to local officials who say that there were three missile attacks, one of which hit a residential building, turning it into rubble.
Now to the west of Kherson, in Odessa, a dormitory housing people who had fled Ukraine's east is now in ruins after dozens of drones launched by Russia were shot down by Kyiv's air defense systems causing the debris to fall down. At least 11 people were reportedly wounded, among them four children.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN (through translator): I was probably most afraid for the children. We have a dormitory full of children. After the air raid siren, we went down to the first floor, as we always do. When there was a big explosion, these windows exploded. It was very scary. I remember everything in fragments. People began to go outside. The men began to take the children out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LU STOUT: Another resident said that people are now out on the street with literally nowhere else to go.
Now, the Russian president showed no signs of backing down on Ukraine during a year-end news conference broadcast to the nation. Thursday's event was highly choreographed, but some surprising and thorny questions popped up on a video screen. And there was also a stunt involving a deep fake video and questions about Vladimir Putin's rumored body doubles.
Matthew Chance reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This was Putin's first big news conference since his invasion of Ukraine nearly two years ago. For hours, the Kremlin leader answered carefully picked questions, restating Russian objectives in what he calls his special military operation.
VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): There will be peace when we achieve our goals. They haven't changed. This is the demilitarization and denazification of Ukraine and its neutral status.
CHANCE (voice-over): For the first time Putin revealed more than 600,000 troops are currently in the conflict zone but he gave no indication of losses which U.S. intelligence estimates are extremely high. The Russian leader did however indicate he believed western resolve on Ukraine may be crumbling significant as American aid for Ukraine is held up in the U.S. Congress.
PUTIN (through translator): Today, Ukraine produces almost nothing. They are trying to preserve something. But they produce almost nothing. They get everything, excuse the bad manners, for free. But this freebie may end someday. And apparently it is ending.
CHANCE (voice-over): One Russian reporter asked Putin about recent Ukrainian gains across the Dnipro River. They're just small areas, Putin said, in which Ukrainian forces are now highly exposed.
PUTIN (through translator): I don't know why they are doing it. They are pushing their people to get killed. It's a one-way trip for Ukrainian forces. The reason for this are political, because Ukrainian leaders are begging foreign countries for aid.
CHANCE (voice-over): This was a highly staged event with carefully vetted questions. But a live stream of public texts threw up a few surprising challenges.
How many yachts does Putin have? Asked one anonymous message. Why is your reality different to our reality? Asked another.
A glimpse behind the curtain, perhaps, into what some Russians are really thinking.
In a bizarre moment, a Russian child appeared in a video message asking if her family would ever be replaced by robots.
Moderator then played an extraordinary video of what she said was a deep fake image of Putin asking the real Russian leader if he had many doubles. You're the first, Putin responded. Of course, there are rumors he has many.
PUTIN (through translator): Yes, I see you can look like me and speak in my voice. But I thought about it and have decided that only one person should look like me. and speak in my voice, and that person would be me.
CHANCE (voice-over): Meanwhile, as Putin held court, U.S. journalist Evan Gershkovich actually appeared in one, another appeal against his detention for alleged espionage denied, though Putin indicated talks to return detained Americans are ongoing. PUTIN (through translator): It's not that we refuse their return. We
do not refuse. We want to negotiate, and the agreements must be mutually acceptable and satisfactory to both sides.
CHANCE (voice-over): What Russia wants, though, remains unclear.
Matthew Chance, CNN Moscow.
[03:30:00]
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN CORRESPONDENT AND ANCHOR: 10 weeks after the war began, CNN gets an up-close and unfiltered look at life and death in southern Gaza. What our correspondent describes as a window onto hell, that's next.
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LU STOUT: U.S. President Joe Biden says he wants Israel to focus on how to save civilian lives as a country presses its offensive against Hamas in Gaza. President Biden told reporters on Thursday that Israel should keep going after Hamas, but, quote, "be more careful." The Biden administration wants Israel to shift from a high-intensity phase to a more precise, targeted approach in the coming weeks.
Now the U.S. National Security Advisor, Jake Sullivan, says that he had a, quote, "intense and detailed conversation about that with the Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu," on Thursday. Following talks in Israel, Sullivan is scheduled to meet with the Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas in the West Bank later today. But before he heads to Ramallah, we expect to hear from him at any moment.
Now, Prime Minister Netanyahu is vowing that Israel will keep fighting until Hamas is completely destroyed and will not stop until achieving, quote, "absolute victory." But his quest to eliminate the group comes with a heavy toll for the people of Gaza, and that is bringing increased international pressure and criticism. I spoke about it in the last hour with Yaakov Katz of the "Jerusalem Post."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YAAKOV KATZ, SR. COLUMNIST AND FORMER EDITOR, "JERUSALEM POST": Basically what we're hearing is that the Americans, and I think it's no secret already, we've heard the comments made by the vice president, the secretary of state, the secretary of defense, and even the president himself would like to see Israel deescalate, I would call it from the high intensity conflict stage, which we're in now to a more lower or a lower intensity conflict stage, which we've yet to arrive at.
And they are looking to see that Israel kind of wrap up this high intensity stage in the next few weeks. I'm not sure that the prime minister will heed that advice because there is a benefit to him potentially politically to stand up to -- be appearing as standing up strong to pressure from outside of Israel. LU STOUT: Yeah, that's right. He's facing this intense domestic
pressure inside Israel. Netanyahu is struggling for his political future. He's been trailing behind in the polls. Hostage families are losing patience with him. So how is he handling all that domestic pressure that's building up?
[03:35:01]
KATZ: I don't envy the prime minister and the challenges that he's facing and all of these conflicting, sometimes interesting goals, right? One of the main goals, obviously the primary goal of this war is to degrade Hamas' capabilities, to bring it down from leadership over Gaza and prevent it from ever being able to threaten Israel again in the future. At the same time, we have about 130 Israeli hostages who are still being held inside the Gaza Strip by Hamas.
Sometimes, those two objectives and how do we get them back? Those two objectives at times might appear to contradict one another. But we have to remember, like you said, Kristie, is the prime minister trailing in the polls, losing support. He wants to shore up that support because the assumption in the political system here is that there will be an election highly likely in the aftermath of when this conflict ends and for him to climb back up, he needs to appear to be strong. He needs to regain that position of the Mr. Security, Mr. -- I can take care of America. I can run the country without hesitation.
And right now people don't see that. One of the ways to potentially do that is to stand up to U.S. and international pressure. And my fear is that this could lead us to an unnecessary crisis with the Americans, right?
We've seen how Joe Biden has fair, for the most part, stood up strong alongside Israel, made a historic visit to Israel, has supplied Israel with munitions and supplies and equipment that it needs is pushing through Congress a $14 billion aid package for Israel, has not called for a comprehensive ceasefire like some other world leaders have called for, and on the contrary has said, I don't want Israel to stop. Israel needs to take out Hamas because they have no right to continue to exist after the horrific attacks of October 7th. We don't need a crisis with the Americans right now, and I would hope that politics don't get in the way.
LU STOUT: Yeah, and so in the face of mounting domestic pressure, international pressure, are you saying that ultimately it's domestic pressure that will guide and direct Mr. Netanyahu during these next few critical weeks? And so what will that mean for his campaign against Hamas? How will that take shape?
KATZ: You know, Kristie, it was the late Henry Kissinger who just passed away, what, just about two weeks ago, who once coined the phrase, I'm paraphrasing here for a moment that Israel doesn't have foreign policy. It only has domestic policy. And I think that at the end of the day, like all good politicians, before they look what's happening across the Atlantic, they look what's happening in their own backyard and they want to make sure that they can remain in office. So this is going to be a continued question and cloud that will hover
above the decision-making apparatus that's making these decisions throughout the conflict and the war.
Let's also just throw into the mix, Kristie, is the fact that There are mounting calls for many of the leaders, not only on the security side, but also on the political side, to step down in the aftermath of the intelligence debacle and the massive failure that led to those Hamas attacks on October 7th. And those include calls on Netanyahu to step down. So this really will, for him, will be a fight for survival in the day after this conflict ends.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LU STOUT: Yakov Katz of the "Jerusalem Post" speaking to us earlier.
Now, as Israel warns that the war will last, quote, "more than several months," the situation inside Gaza will surely grow ever more dire. Nearly 10 weeks after the fighting began, CNN's chief international correspondent, Clarissa Ward and her crew were finally able to get independent access into southern Gaza. And she describes this rare glimpse at the devastation as a window onto hell. And a warning, her report contains disturbing images.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): You don't have to search for tragedy in Gaza. It finds you on every street, strewn with trash and stagnant water, desolate and foreboding.
WARD: So we've just crossed the border into southern Gaza. This is the first time we've actually been able to get into Gaza since October 7th, and we are now driving to a field hospital that has been set up by the UAE.
WARD (voice-over): Up until now, Israel and Egypt have made access for international journalists next to impossible. And you can see why.
WARD: Since October 7th, the Israeli military says it has hit Gaza with more than 22,000 strikes. That by far surpasses anything we've seen in modern warfare in terms of intensity and ferocity. And we really, honestly, are just getting a glimpse of it here.
WARD (voice-over): Despite Israel's heavy bombardment, there are people out on the streets. A crowd outside a bakery. Where else can they go? Nowhere is safe in Gaza.
[03:40:05]
Arriving at the Emirati Field Hospital, we meet Dr. Abdullah Al-Naqbi. No sooner does our tour begin when.
WARD: And this is what you hear all the time now?
DR. ABDULLAH AL-NAQBI, UAE FIELD HOSPITAL: Yes. At least 20 times a day. WARD: At least 20 times a day?
AL-NAQBI: Maybe more sometimes. I think we've got used to it.
WARD (voice-over): One thing none of the doctors here have got used to is the number of children they are treating. The U.N. estimates that some two-thirds of those killed in this round of the conflict have been women and children.
Eight-year-old Janane was lucky enough to survive a strike on her family home that crushed her femur but spared her immediate family.
WARD: She says she's not in pain, so that's good.
WARD (voice-over): Her mother, Hiba, was out when it happened. I went to the hospital to look for her, she says. And I came here, and I found her here. The doctors told me what happened with her, and I made sure that she's OK. Thank God.
They bombed the house in front of us and then our home, Janan tells us. I was sitting next to my grandfather and my grandfather held me and my uncle was fine, so he is the one who took us out.
But Dr. Ahmed Almazrouei says it is hard not to.
DR. AHMED ALMAZROUEI, UAE FIELD HOSPITAL: I work with old people, like adults. But the children? No. I think that's changing.
WARD (voice-over): Touches your heart and tests your faith in humanity. As we leave Jenin, Dr. Al-Nakbi comes back with the news of casualties arriving from the strike just 10 minutes earlier.
AL-NAQBI: We just got (inaudible) Two amputated young male, from just the bomb --
WARD: From the (inaudible) that we just heard.
AL-NAQBI: -- this is my understanding (inaudible).
WARD (voice-over): A man and a 13-year-old boy are wheeled in, both missing limbs, both in a perilous state.
What's your name, what's your name? The doctor asks. The notes provided by the paramedics are smeared with blood. The tourniquet improvised with a bandage.
Since the field hospital opened less than two weeks ago, it has been inundated with patients. 130 of their 150 beds are already full.
WARD: So let me understand this. You are now basically the only hospital around that still has some beds?
AL-NAQBI: I guess so, yes. Or maybe I'm very sure of that because they are telling me one of the hospitals with a capacity of 200, they are accommodating 1,000 right now. And the next door hospital, I'm not very sure, he said like 50 to 100, it has maybe 400 to 500 patients. So at one occasion he called me, he said I have three patients in each bed, please take any. I said send as many as you can.
WARD: I mean we've been here 15 minutes and this is already what we're seeing.
AL-NAQBI: This is, you hear that, you see it.
WARD (voice-over): In every bed, another gut punch, less than two years old, Amir still doesn't know that his parents and siblings were killed in the strike that disfigured him.
Yesterday he saw a nurse that looked like his father. His aunt Nahaya tells us. He kept screaming, Dad, Dad, Dad.
Amir is still too young to comprehend the horror all around him.
But 20-year-old Lama understands it all too well. Ten weeks ago, she was studying engineering at university and helping to plan her sister's wedding. Today, she is recovering from the amputation of her right leg. Her family followed Israeli military orders and fled from the north to the south. But the house where they were seeking shelter was hit in a strike.
The world isn't listening to us, she says. Nobody cares about us. We have been dying for over 60 days, dying from the bombing, and nobody did anything.
[03:45:06]
Words of condemnation delivered in a thin rasp.
But does anyone hear them?
Like Grozny, Aleppo and Mariupol, Gaza will go down as one of the great horrors of modern warfare.
It's getting dark, time for us to leave, a privilege the vast majority of Gazans do not have. Our brief glimpse from a window onto hell is ending as a new chapter in this ugly conflict unfolds.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LU STOUT: CNN's Clarissa Ward there reporting from inside Gaza. You're watching "CNN Newsroom." We'll be back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LU STOUT: A dark shadow looms over the Festival of Lights this year as many Jews in the U.S. struggle to celebrate Hanukkah in the wake of rising anti-Semitic incidents since the October 7th Hamas attacks in Israel. CNN's Omar Jimenez has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The week of Hanukkah is supposed to be a time of joy, but for many Jewish Americans, some of that joy has been replaced with fear. In Greensboro, North Carolina, a man was arrested for vandalizing a
Holocaust monument. It was defaced with graffiti that included a swastika inside of the Star of David at the base of the monument, according to the local nonprofit that built the monument.
In Oakland --
(END VIDEOTAPE)
UNKNOWN (voice-over): This is CNN Breaking News.
LU STOUT: Okay, happening right now, the U.S. National Security Advisor, Jake Sullivan, is speaking in Tel Aviv after meeting with Israeli leaders. Let's listen in.
(LIVE VIDEO FEED)
JAKE SULLIVAN, U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR: President Biden on his visit on October 18th, and our message then is the same as my message today, which is that the United States stands with Israel.
As President Biden has said many times, Israel has a right, indeed a duty, to defend itself against Hamas. A terrorist group that committed the worst massacre of the Jewish people since the Holocaust, that used rape and sexual violence to terrorize Israeli women, that continues to hold hostages, women, the elderly, the sick, the wounded, and hide in tunnels they've purposely built under civilian infrastructure.
And I'm here today on President Biden's behalf to emphasize our continued commitment to support Israel in its fight against Hamas. Yesterday and today I've met with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his war cabinet, President Herzog and a range of senior officials.
[03:50:00]
We discussed the ongoing war and military operations. We discussed our shared objective of ensuring that Hamas will never again pose a threat to the state of Israel, while minimizing harm to civilians, while ensuring the increased and sustained flow of humanitarian assistance into Gaza, and while working day in and day out, hour by hour to secure the release of all of the remaining hostages so that they can return home to their loved ones.
We consulted on our joint efforts with the United Nations, with Egypt, and other regional partners to facilitate the delivery of humanitarian aid. We did not do a great job of putting the podium sign on.
And I described U.S. efforts in coordination with allies and partners to deter attempts to expand the conflict regionally, including in the Red Sea, and expressed President Biden's commitment to restoring calm along the blue line through a combination of deterrence and diplomacy.
Later today, in fact, after I leave here, I will visit Ramallah to meet with President Abbas and discuss ongoing efforts to promote stability in the West Bank, including through efforts to confront terrorism, to support the Palestinian Authority security forces through the U.S. security coordinator for Israel and the Palestinian Authority, through ongoing efforts to revamp and revitalize the Palestinian Authority and through initiatives to hold extremist settlers accountable for violence against Palestinians.
I have and will continue to state President Biden and the United States' commitment to preserving space for peace for a two-state solution where Israel's security is guaranteed. The Israeli people need and deserve to live in peace and security with their neighbors in a region that is integrated, dynamic, and stable. That is what we are working toward. That is what I discussed with my counterparts and interlocutors here in Israel, and that is President Biden's fundamental vision for the future of this region.
And with that, I'd be happy to take your questions, and we'll start with Alex from CNN.
ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Thanks very much, Jake. The administration has made it clear that you are hoping that this fight will transition at some point from this high- intensity phase to a lower-intensity phase. What are the Israelis telling you in terms of the conditions that are needed for that to happen, and how does that sync up with your preferred timeline?
And then if I may, the administration has insisted that Israel has the intent to keep civilians safe. And we at CNN and others are reporting that almost half of the 30,000 bombs that have been dropped on Gaza have been so-called dumb bombs, imprecise. If there was a real intent to protect civilians, wouldn't they be using much more precise, smaller munitions?
SULLIVAN: So first, I really appreciate the question on the phases of the conflict, because I think there's been some misunderstanding in the reporting, not from you, but from others.
When Israel launched this campaign to root out the terrorist threat that Hamas poses to the state of Israel, it made clear from the beginning that this war would proceed in phases. We are now in the middle of a high-intensity phase with ongoing ground operations, military operations in both the northern half and the southern half of Gaza.
But there will be a transition to another phase of this war, one that is focused in more precise ways on targeting the leadership and on intelligence-driven operations that continues to deal with the ongoing threat that Hamas poses.
The conditions and the timing for that was obviously a subject of conversation that I had with Prime Minister Netanyahu, with the war cabinet with the leadership of the IDF, with the Defense minister and I think it's really important that those conversations take place first in the spirit of partnership we're not here to tell anybody you must do actually must do why we're here to say this is our perspective as your partner as your friend this is what we believe is the best way to achieve both your tactical and strategic goals. And then second it has to take place in private because we can't
telegraph for the enemy what the plan is. So I'm not going to speak to it timelines and I'm not going to speak to conditions here from the podium. What I am going to say is that we had a very constructive conversation yesterday about the transition from the high intensity phase forward and we expect that will occur in the future.
When exactly that happens and under exactly what conditions will be a continuing intensive discussion between the United States and Israel and I will make sure that conversation at least as far as I can do it is gonna stay is going to take place behind closed doors.
When it comes to the issue of the bombs the type of bombs that Israel is using what I would say is that different types of munitions require different types of military operations meaning the method by which bombs are delivered that don't have the tail kits on them is different in terms of how the planes fly in terms of how the targets are selected and they all go through the same process, a process by which Israel selects targets and tries to distinguish between targets that hit Hamas and those that might take the lives of innocent civilians.
[03:55:12]
At the end of the day, what we have consistently said is that Israel has the intent to make sure that it is drawing those distinctions clearly and in a sustainable way, and we want to see the results match up to that. That's a conversation that I had in full with them today and yesterday as well, and will continue to do that, including on the type of munitions they use and when they use a certain type of munitions, how those are delivered to ensure that from the United States' perspective, they are fulfilling their obligations, their responsibilities as a state to international humanitarian law.
Yanir from IDF Radio.
UNKNOWN: Hello, sir, thank you for doing that. The defense minister, Galant, told you in your meeting that it will take months to defeat Hamas. And to my understanding, he refers to the high-intensity operation. Netanyahu also says similar things. The question is, what will happen if in a few weeks or even two months, Israel will say to the United States, we have not finished the job in this high-intensity way, and we need a few more months, maybe six months?
What will be the response of the American administration? Will it reduce, for example, the military aid to Israel?
And is the prime minister's statement that the day after defeating Hamas, military control should remain in Israel's hands, capable to the American, if it's acceptable to the American administration?
And just another question, please. You met with the head of the Mossad yesterday, and also yesterday the American official said that there are new ideas regarding to the release of the hostages. Are you more optimistic about the possibility that we will see soon a new plan to release more hostages? Thank you. SULLIVAN: I will do my best to answer those multiple questions. You
may have to remind me of one or two of them. First, as I said in a TV interview last night, what I heard Minister Galant to say was that the fight against Hamas is going to take months. And of course, we agree with that. This fight against Hamas, a deeply entrenched terrorist group in Gaza, is going to take time. And it's going to happen in phases. We've said that from the beginning.
And so there's no contradiction between saying the fight is going to take months and also saying that different phases will take place at different times over those months, including the transition from the high intensity operations to more targeted operations.
We had a very good discussion about how that transition will occur and under what conditions and on what timeline. And we will continue that conversation. Secretary Austin will be here soon to continue it in detail. And again, I'm not gonna get into the specifics of that for the reason that laying out Israel's war plan for the public is only going to help Hamas. And I don't intend to do that.
But I did not hear Minister Galant or Prime Minister Netanyahu yesterday to say things that would lead me to feel I need to answer the hypothetical question of if then down the road, we will work together in partnership, in coordination and we will continue to supply our ideas, our perspective on what makes the most sense for Israel both strategically and tactically.
And I would also add that from our perspective, distinguishing between innocent Palestinian people on the one hand and Hamas on the other hand is not just a moral question, though it is a moral question, because innocent people's lives should be sacred and protected. It's also a strategic question for Israel.
And I think my Israeli counterparts didn't just acknowledge that they very much indicated that their goal is to try to distinguish between innocent Palestinians and Hamas as we go forward and we will continue to reiterate both publicly and privately our commitment to the notion that every innocent life should be sacred and should be protected.
On the question of what happens in Gaza once the military operations are complete. The Israeli government has indicated that it does not have a long-term plan to occupy Gaza and that ultimately the control of Gaza, the administration of Gaza and the security of Gaza has to transition to the Palestinians.
Now the question of how that transition occurs over what timetable, that is also something that we are having intensive discussions about but the U.S. position on this is clear. We do not believe that it makes sense for Israel or is right for Israel to occupy Gaza, reoccupy Gaza over the long term, and that we would like to see ultimately that transition take place and we can continue to work through the circumstances in the context for that transition.
And then your final question was on the hostages.
Look, here's what I will say. I can't characterize myself as optimistic or pessimistic because we're talking about.
