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CNN International: White Hose Adviser Stresses Continued Commitment to Israel; Turkey: U.S. Responsible for Ensuring Permanent Ceasefire; Final Day of Historic EU Leaders Summit. Aired 4:00-4:30a ET

Aired December 15, 2023 - 04:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[04:00:00]

JAKE SULLIVAN, U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Look, here's what I will say. I can't characterize myself as optimistic or pessimistic because, you know, we're talking about not just the people who are being held in captivity but their family members who are waiting hour by hour, day by day to learn the fate of their loved ones. To know when they're going to come home, when they'll be able to embrace them again and hold them again. And so, I don't want to be in the prediction business with something as heavy as that.

What I will say is that my meeting with the director of the Mossad last night, you know, it was -- we were supposed to meet for about 45 minutes. We ended up meeting for more than twice that because we had a very detailed and intense conversation about how to move forward to try to secure the release of all the hostages. Ultimately that will be something that we have to work in a very sensitive way between the U.S. and Israel working with Qatar, with Egypt, with other actors. And so, I will leave that conversation where it belongs in those sensitive channels.

But I will just say this has seized the attention from the very first day of the President of the United States and every other senior member of his team. And just this week, the president met with the families of the American hostages to reaffirm for them that we are going to do everything in our power working with our Israeli counterparts to ensure that every hostage comes home safely and I'll leave it at that for today. Thank you,

Hallie Jackson, NBC.

HALLIE JACKSON, NBC: Hey, Jake, thank you for doing this. Two questions for you. One, looking ahead to your trip and then a separate one on the broader potential for regional conflict. The Prime Minister has reportedly suggested that the Palestinian Authority wants to destroy Israel in stages, unlike Hamas. A senior administration official for the U.S. said just last night that the Palestinian Authority needs to be revamped and revitalized. So given that, do you believe Abbas is best positioned to lead the Palestinian Authority into whatever happens next in Gaza into whatever happens next in the region?

And then secondly, I know you've had some conversations about what's happening more broadly regionally. Do you have any indication or any concern that the Prime Minister is poised to launch a bigger campaign against Hezbollah in the north?

SULLIVAN: So, taking your second question first, as I have said and others in our government have said, we believe that ultimately the citizens of Israel who have been evacuated from the north have to be able to return to their homes and have to be able to do so with a true sense of security. And that means dealing with the threat that comes from the other side of the border.

But we also believe that that threat can be dealt with through diplomacy and does not require the launching of a new war. Now it requires not just diplomacy, but as I said in my opening deterrents as well, because we need to send a clear message that we will not tolerate the kinds of threats and terrorist activity that we have seen from Hezbollah and from the territory of Lebanon.

But in our view, and I reaffirmed this yesterday, the best way to do this is to come up with a negotiated outcome -- excuse me -- in which those Israeli citizens in those communities up on the northern border can know that they are not going to be subject to an attack that would take their lives or destroy their communities. We'll continue to work at that. And I believe that we can accomplish that. And that is going to be a significant priority for the United States.

When it comes to the Palestinian Authority, I am not going to characterize personalities. What I'm going to say is at a basic level, we do believe that the Palestinian Authority needs to be revamped and revitalized, needs to be updated in terms of its method of governance, its representation of the Palestinian people. And that will require a lot of work by everybody who is engaged in the Palestinian Authority. Starting with the president. Mahmoud Abbas, who I will go see. And ultimately, it's going to be up to the Palestinian people to work through their representation, and it will be up to those leaders of the Palestinian Authority to work through the types of steps that they need to take to reform and update the Authority for the situation we face today.

The United States will be a partner in that, with them, respectfully, you know, and we will be there to try to support their efforts to ultimately deliver a vision in which Israelis and Palestinians live side by side in peace and security. Ahmad from Alaraby.

AHMAD: Hello. What if the intense phase of four continued for months, not four weeks, as you hope. What the United States will do to save the lives of Palestinian children and women?

SULLIVAN: So, I feel that a very similar question from IDF radio.

[04:05:00]

The what if question down the road and I said before that I'm not going to entertain those hypotheticals because my job here is not go out into the future and say if X then Y it's rather to say here's how the United States sees the situation. Here's the way in which we believe Israel can best ensure that Hamas never represents a threat to Israel again, one. And two, protect the civilians of Gaza and enable them to have a future, a vision of a future where they can live in peace and security as well. That's what we're doing. I'm doing that today. President Biden does that every time he speaks with Prime Minister Netanyahu. And we're not kind of engaging in a hypothetical conversation about what could come. We are laying out what we believe is the best course forward. We're doing that behind closed doors because we think that's the best way to achieve convergence around an approach that satisfies those objectives I just laid out.

And you know, obviously we will see how things unfold and make decisions accordingly. And the President will look at the situation at every point along the way and judge how the United States should react and respond to that. And I'll leave it at that for now rather than then try to answer a hypothetical question for the future. Britain from ABC.

BRITAIN, ABC: Hi, Mr. Sullivan, you mentioned Israel's right to self- defense. Does the right to self-defense justify the level of human suffering we're seeing in Gaza right now?

SULLIVAN: Look, I think we have to take a step back and put in context what has happened since October 7th. On October 7th you had a terrorist group, Hamas, come across the border from Gaza into Israel and massacre 1,200 people in a brutal and savage way. They then turned around and went back into Gaza and hid behind a civilian population, using civilians as human shields, using protected sites like hospitals and schools for military purposes. Embedding themselves among the innocent Palestinian people and continuing to fire rockets at Israeli cities and continuing to go out on the airwaves and say we're going to commit October 7th again and again and again. And go out and state we're in a permanent state of war with Israel. And go out and state, we would like to see Israel's right to exist eliminated.

So that is the reality that the IDF is contending with when it goes in. It doesn't have the opportunity to meet Hamas on a field of battle in a way in which civilians are off to one side and the terrorists are off to the other side. The terrorists chose to embed themselves among civilians. And that creates an incredible burden on the IDF. A burden that is unusual for a military in today's day and age.

Now, that burden does not lessen the IDF's responsibility to act in a way that distinguishes between terrorist targets and innocent people, and to take every precaution to protect civilians and minimize the loss of life. It also doesn't lessen the burden, by the way, to ensure that humanitarian assistance flows in sufficient quantities that the Palestinian people have access to the food, water, medicine, sanitation that they don't just need that they deserve as a basic matter of dignity, of human beings.

And so, those are messages that we have conveyed quite clearly to the Israeli people. But what I think has been lost a little bit in this whole debate is the responsibility that sits with Hamas. Who not only is doing all the things I just described to put the Palestinian people in a terrible position, but is also holding more than 100 hostages still to this day, men, women, children in tunnels, in circumstances that are dire and deteriorating.

So, our position from the very first day of this conflict has been that Israel has the right to go after Hamas in these difficult circumstances, and also has the responsibility to do so in a way that comports with our values, with international humanitarian law, and with the strategic necessity to see that fundamental difference between innocent Palestinian people and these evil terrorists of Hamas. And that is a position that we have stated publicly. It is a message we drive in very granular terms privately in the conduct of these operations and we will continue to do so as we go forward. I'll take one last question from Roy. Why not? Oh, channel. OK, no problem.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, thank you very much. Two questions.

[04:10:00]

One, I would like to follow up about the hostage. Israel, the IDF has recovered three bodies only today of people who went hostage in Gaza. Do you think Israeli official understand the necessity of or the urgency to bring everyone home as soon as possible? And you have mentioned beside Qatar and Egypt, other players, other mediators is Germany is one of them. Because it has been reported earlier today that German intelligence would like to be involved. And I would like to ask you also about the Houthis. There was another incident in the morning, one yesterday. Why we are not seeing any aggressive response by the U.S. against the Houthis, against Iran when you know it's on a daily basis and you have the firepower in the region.

SULLIVAN: So first on the Houthis, as I said last night on, I think your network. The Houthis represent material threat to freedom of navigation to commercial shipping, to lawful commerce, and they're doing so in a vital artery there at the Bab-el-Mandeb and into the Red Sea. And the United States is working with the international community with partners from the region and from all over the world to deal with this threat. We are building a coalition. We are working to ensure that -- and rally the nations of the world, all of whom have an interest in seeing this stop.

This is not about the United States and Israel. This is about the entire international community. And we will continue to take every step that we deem necessary and appropriate to deal with the threat that the Houthis pose. And to your question, also deal with the fact that while the Houthis are pulling the trigger, so to speak, they're being handed the gun by Iran and Iran has a responsibility to take steps themselves to cease these attacks. Because these attacks, as I said before, are a fundamental threat to international law and to international peace and security. And we will continue to consult about the best way forward, the best means of response.

Secretary Austin will be in the region in just a couple of days, not just here in Israel, but in Manama as well to continue to work on what the most appropriate response is. That response in our view shouldn't just be the United States. It should be a broader coalition of countries working together in concert and that is what we intend.

With respect to the hostages, I can't speak specifically to German intelligence and their role. What I will say is from our perspective, the more ideas, energy and efforts that can be pursued, including with good partners like Germany, bring it on. I mean, that -- it would be good to be able to work with them in all of this. But the main effort to date in terms of the first round of hostage releases and the continuing discussions involve Israel, the United States, Qatar, Egypt and we will look to other partners for their ideas and their thoughts on this as we go forward.

And I think you asked another question, but I may have forgotten it. Maybe that's it. Oh, is Israel? Yeah. Yes. I believe it is a priority of the government to bring everyone home. I heard that in stereo yesterday in my conversations. It is a paramount priority of the United States, for our citizens, but also for all of the rest of the hostages, and I found it to be a priority for every member of the government. And then as I said, something that the director of the Mossad is working intensively at the direction of the government in a way that, frankly, I find it admirable in his personal efforts. And we will continue our work on this and we'll continue to work closely with the Israeli Government. Thank you guys.

MAX FOSTER, CNN ANCHOR: U.S. National Security Adviser, Jake Sullivan, speaking in Tel Aviv after meeting with Israeli leaders about Israel's war with Hamas.

A very warm welcome to our viewers joining us in the U.S. and around the world. I'm Max Foster in London. We want to go straight to Melissa Bell, though, who was monitoring that at a very sensitive time in U.S. Israel relations -- Melissa.

MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. And this was very much a press conference designed to paper over any cracks that might have emerged these last few days between the United States and Israel on a couple of different questions. Max.

[04:15:30]

First of all, the question of the time frame of when this transition from the high intensity bombing campaign that we've seen so far since Israel's invasion of Gaza began, into something lower intensity that it will involve intelligence led targeted attacks against Hamas. The United States has been urging for that to happen quickly.

And what you heard Jake Sullivan there do was really address the fact that these conversations were going on. Deny really that there's very much distance between the American and Israeli position. And remind the journalist he was speaking to that essentially, these are ongoing conversations and these are decisions that Israel will take.

The question of when that phasing out of the first phase and the bringing in of the second phase happens simply, he reminded those journalists that it will happen in the future, not giving any details really about what was discussed specifically because he says it's about not telegraphing that to Hamas.

The other question of disagreement that has emerged between Washington and Tel Aviv these last few days, the question of what happens after Hamas. We heard Benjamin Netanyahu refer to that a couple of days ago. Speaking of a difference of view about what should happen afterwards. The American position clearly repeated there by Jake Sullivan, is that the Palestinian Authority needs to be revamped and revived, and that it should perhaps take control of what happens in Gaza once Hamas has been eliminated. This is something that Benjamin Netanyahu had really dismissed out of hand.

But Jake Sullivan hopes that this will be something that can be discussed with Mahmoud Abbas when he meets him later today in Ramallah.

So those two questions addressed but very much a press conference designed to show that Israel and United States are on board with each other. That there are conversations that continue and that there is broad agreement on what should happen next. Even if the timetable remains fairly vague -- Max.

FOSTER: OK, Melissa Bell, thank you so much for your insight there.

Now, as the U.S. pushes Israel to change its strategy in fighting, Turkey says Washington must stop it altogether by ensuring a permanent ceasefire. That's what Turkey's President Recep Tayyip Erdogan told his U.S. counterpart Joe Biden during a phone call. And that's according to a readout from the Turkish government. President Erdogan said the way to do that is to use American support for Israel as leverage.

Let's turn to Scott McLean, who's live in Istanbul. This is an important relationship to the U.S. and that does offer some insight on how to deal with Israel.

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Max. Turkey, of course, is a NATO ally, but Joe Biden and Recep Erdogan have not had a direct conversation. At least one that's publicly known, since the conflict in Gaza began. Erdogan has been one of the most outspoken critics of Israel, and obviously Biden has been one of its closest allies. And when you compare the readouts from each respective country on how this call went, it is really, really remarkable to see how little crossover there actually is. There's no indication, at least on my reading of it, that they really agreed on anything at all.

Of course, you have Biden saying that the U.S. supports Israel's right to defend itself, and then Erdogan's side is saying that, look, the U.S. should withdraw its unconditional support for Israel in order to get a ceasefire. And the fundamental problem here is that. Turkey and the United States see this conflict, they see Israel. They see Hamas fundamentally differently. Turkey views Israel as the terrorist state -- in Erdogan's word. And does not view Hamas as a terror group. And I had a conversation this week with Erdogan's chief adviser on foreign policy and security, and I asked him about a few things, but one of them was unconfirmed reports that the Hamas leader was actually in Turkey on October the 7th. I also asked him about the fact that Hamas leaders are able to come and go freely from this country, here's part of the conversation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) MCLEAN: A lot of people in the West will wonder why Turkey has agreed to host Hamas members at all.

AKIF CAGATAY KILIC, TURKISH PRESIDENT'S CHIEF ADVISOR ON FOREIGN POLICY AND SECURITY: Well, you see, they're asking that question today. But the issue is we have been trying to resolve the Palestinian, Palestinian/Israeli conflict for a long time now. And whether people like it or not, the fact is that Fatah and Hamas are part of this. They are part of the Palestinian people and they are part of this process.

MCLEAN: Was Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh in Turkey on October 7th?

KILIC: Well, I'm not totally aware of where of his whereabouts in the world, so I cannot answer on that.

MCLEAN: Is it possible that he was here?

KILIC: He might have been.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCLEAN (on camera): But again, Turkey does not see this as any kind of a problem, even if Haniyeh actually was here. Obviously, Hamas, as I mentioned, not viewed as a terror group. And Kilic, Mr. Kilic there, Erdogan's chief adviser, made clear that look, Turkey thinks that it is better to engage with Hamas.

[04:20:00]

He said that it's actually something that Israel asked Turkey to do more than a decade ago to engage with them and to work with them. And that's what Kilic says that Turkey is doing in order to help broker some kind of an eventual peace deal -- Max.

FOSTER: OK, Scott, in Istanbul. Thank you.

Eight people suspected of planning attacks on Jewish institutions have been arrested in several European countries. Germany's federal prosecutor says authorities arrested three people in Germany and one in the Netherlands. They are accused of being long standing members of Hamas. Authorities say the suspects allegedly started searching for a, quote, underground weapons cash in Europe for Hamas earlier this year.

And in what appears to be a separate incident, three people were arrested in Denmark and one in the Netherlands for terrorism offences. Israeli authorities say the suspects were, quote, acting on behalf of the Hamas terrorist organization, but didn't provide any further information.

Let's take you now to Brussels, though, where any moment now EU leaders will begin the second and final day of their summit. The Israel/Hamas war and the fight against anti-Semitism and Islamophobia are on the agenda. It comes after an historic decision on Thursday, with the bloc announcing it will begin membership talks for Ukraine as well as Moldova. Ukraine's president calls the move a truly remarkable result. As the head of the European Council hailed, an important moment of unity.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLES MICHEL, EUROPEAN COUNCIL PRESIDENT: This is really important. We want to support Ukraine. It's a very powerful political signal. It's a very, very powerful political decision. And today and tonight, I think to the people of Ukraine, we are on their side and this decision made by the Member States is extremely important for the credibility of the European Union.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: He wasn't the man taking up most attention, though, was he -- Bianca? You're in Brussels and it's actually the Hungarian leader that seemed to be the man of the moment.

BIANCA NOBILO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's been a summit of twists and turns, Max. Yesterday, people were expecting the summit that was due to end Friday afternoon to stretch all the way through until Sunday, that it would be incredibly difficult and marathon set of meetings. But then, unexpectedly, Viktor Orban essentially abstain from the vote to allow Ukraine to continue on its path towards European Union membership and officially start those negotiations.

Now it's taken quite a few hours, but we've got a good sense of what happened now and it really was a surprise. So apparently Olaf Scholz, Emmanuel Macron had tried to argue with Viktor Orban and say that your issues with Ukraine taking this next step don't hold up. And also a lot of diplomats saying it's quite rich, given that Hungary has its own issues with the rule of law. So that Olaf Scholz had suggested to Viktor Orban, why don't you just grab a coffee outside, i.e., leave the room so that we can get on. Do this vote without you and under unanimous voting they could.

No one we've spoken to knows if that's ever happened before, but it was definitely a surprise turn of events. But then Viktor Orban blocked this 50 billion euro package, which was intended to give Ukraine support for its economy through next year, and the next four years. That is likely to be discussed in January. Leaders are optimistic about it, but it's probably the case that Viktor Orban can't concede two things at this summit. So he's allowed Ukraine to continue with these discussions to become an EU member, but he probably can't countenance domestically giving the green light to that 50 billion euro fund. So that may still come.

But President Zelenskyy acknowledged that this next step, becoming a member of the European Union, will be a difficult process and probably a long time in coming.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Today we have the decision to start negotiations on joining the EU. After this step, there will be further ones. It's a big job to integrate the state, all institutions, all norms, all this to the European Union, but we'll do it. Ukraine has proven more than once what it's capable of. There will be another victorious decision. There will be a time when we can celebrate Ukraine's accession to the EU. Now in Ukraine, many people are in high spirits and this is important. It is motivation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBILO: On average, Max, it can take about a decade for a potential Member State to become an official member of the EU, but that depends on the state that the country is in. Now with Ukraine at war, with issues with corruption, with its current state of its economy, it would likely take a lot longer. So this is an important diplomatic win for Zelenskyy. But he's had a disappointing trip to the U.S. in terms of funding. He hasn't got that 50 billion euro commitment from the EU. So in terms of the cold hard cash and the tangibles, he's still struggling. And any potential party EU membership is rendered moot and pointless if Vladimir Putin has success in his invasion of Ukraine -- Max.

[04:25:00]

FOSTER: OK, Bianca, in Brussels, thank you.

Next, aiming to break the highest glass ceiling in America. Nikki Haley wins the support of female Republican voters.

And a jury will resume deliberations in the defamation damages trial against Rudy Giuliani, could cost him 10s of millions of dollars.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: The U.S. is just one month away from the Iowa caucuses, where Republican voters will get the first chance to throw their support behind their presidential candidate of choice. Donald Trump rallied in Iowa on Wednesday, urging supporters not to take his substantial leads in the polls for granted and to show up to caucus on January the 15th. The former president also took the chance to go after two of his main competitors.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: DeSantis doesn't even like farmers. He doesn't like farmers. I said, that's not good. He doesn't want to get that word out. And I keep hearing about the surge from Haley. Sir, I'll never vote against you. I'll never run against you. You've been a great president, Sir. I'll never do this. This goes on for a year and a half. Then I hear she's having a news cover. I've decided to run the whole thing. What's with these politicians? Right. DeSanctimonious has been saying for the past six months. Wait for the bounce. You know, he's waiting for the bounce. The bounce is going that way. It's going the wrong direction.

(END VIDEO CLIP)