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Protests In Tel Aviv After IDF Mistakenly Kills Hostages; US Navy Shoots Down 14 Houthi Drones In Yemen; Trump Repeats Anti- Immigrant Rhetoric At New Hampshire Rally; Major Storm To Slam Florida Before Heading Up East Coast; Giuliani Ordered To Pay $148M To Election Workers He Defamed; Conspiracy Theorist Alex Jones Asks Sandy Hook Families to Accept A Fraction Of What They Are Owed. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired December 16, 2023 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:24]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington. Good evening.

Thousands of Israelis are gathering, asking their country to bring back home alive the more than 100 hostages still being held inside Gaza. This comes after three Israeli hostages were mistakenly shot and killed by Israeli soldiers on Friday.

A military official says the three men came out of a building waving a white flag when they were gunned down by their own military. Two of the men died, while a third ran back inside and shouted for help in Hebrew. The Israeli Defense Forces say the troops that shot at the hostages did not follow their rules of engagement.

Meanwhile, another hostage 27-year-old, Inbar Haiman while being held captive by Hamas, according to the Israeli Prime Minister's Office. Tonight we're learning that intensive talks are taking place with the Israeli Defense Minister and top military leaders to get more hostages out of Gaza and CNN's Alex Marquardt joins us now from Tel Aviv.

Alex, that same Defense official talked with the families of the three hostages killed, that must have been absolutely painful. What's the fallout from this? It must be growing by the hour.

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: I mean, Jim, it's absolutely gut wrenching to think that these three men who had survived in captivity for 70 days, we don't know where they're held, whether it was in tunnels, but it was certainly in a very intense war zone. They were on the cusp of being released.

And not only were they killed, but they were killed by soldiers of from their own country inside Gaza. So I think it's safe to say that since we got this news yesterday, a huge amount of pressure is now being placed on the Netanyahu government to get more to release the hostages.

It is believed, there are around 110 hostages who are still alive in Gaza, about 20 more bodies of hostages who have been killed, and so we're seeing two things that I think are of significance.

One, the Defense minister held a meeting tonight that was focused on the efforts to return the hostages with the top echelon from the security services, from Shin Bet, which is their equivalent of the FBI, from the Mossad and from the military, and that is a dedicated meeting about those hostages.

We also saw some of the top ministers meeting with hostage families, that was at that rally that you were talking about that I also attended. And then separately, we have under -- we understand, we've reported that David Barnea who is the director of Mossad has traveled to Europe to meet with the Qatari prime minister.

The Qataris have been the main moderator, the main go-between during these hostage discussions. They are the ones who talk to Hamas. And so taken together, it does appear that there is some movement, some pressure and some desire to focus more on the release of these hostages.

There has not been much negotiating to speak of really, but there does seem to be more talking about getting back to the negotiating table tonight.

Certainly, this is a tragedy that has really struck Israel very profoundly -- Jim.

ACOSTA: And Alex, I understand that the Catholic body that oversees churches in Israel in the Palestinian territories says an IDF sniper killed two women at a church in Gaza. What are the details on that?

MARQUARDT: Well, Jim, this really raises even more questions about Israeli soldiers actions inside Gaza. So this Catholic body that oversees churches in the region tell us that two women who were taking shelter in the Holy Family Parish, which is a church compound that I've been to in northern Gaza, were shot and killed by a sniper, a mother and a daughter. One was dragging the other to safety when she was also shot and killed.

There's a small Christian population in Gaza. Most of them we understand, have taken refuge in this parish. A spokesman for the patriarch, it said that there were no militants inside, and there were no warnings from the IDF.

So if you take this together, the IDF shooting their own hostages, a sniper killing two civilian women who were clearly civilians, it does certainly raise questions about how they are going about their operations when it comes to civilians. Obviously, there's been this global outcry about the thousands of civilians who have been killed since this war began and we've seen very pointed urging from the Biden administration for the Israelis to be much more precise and much more careful when it comes to protecting civilians' lives -- Jim.

ACOSTA: All right, Alex Marquardt with great reporting on all the questions being raised this evening.

Alex, thank you very much. And here now to discuss this, former Maine senator, William Cohen, who

was the Secretary of Defense in the Clinton White House, Clinton administration.

Secretary Cohen, great to see as always. Thanks so much for lending your expertise to all of this.

[18:05:08]

Your response, your reaction to these tragic new details in the shooting deaths of these three Israeli hostages by the IDF. I spoke with an IDF spokesman in the previous hour. He indicated they're going to update their rules of engagement, that they're going to be impressing upon their soldiers to be careful to some extent that they might be engaging with hostages who have escaped.

But he seemed to go on to say that they are really not going to change much of what they do in terms of their campaign in Gaza. What's your sense of everything?

WILLIAM COHEN, FORMER US SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Well, my heart goes out to the parents of those three young men. It's been a double wound to their hearts, so for sure to have their sons be held captive for those 70 days, and then to be shot by their own soldiers as such, certainly a case of mistake on the part of the Israeli soldiers. It calls into question a level of training these young soldiers have. They've been called into action, they may be on reserve.

It calls into question the training they have received. They haven't had to fight this kind of a war for quite a while now in terms there in Gaza, there in the war zone.

They may be jittery, they may not -- they don't know where the shots are coming from or where the people are coming from. They see somebody who is not wearing a shirt, it could be a Palestinian, as a decoy, but nonetheless, that's where the real training comes into place to say, you don't shoot first and ask questions later.

On the other hand, when you're in the middle of a war, you tend to act quickly and then not take a chance. So, I think it goes back to training and I think, what we have to get back to is getting the hostages back, and this is something that the Netanyahu administration house really does have to focus on, and I believe the Biden administration is doing the right thing by saying, please listen to us. We're not trying to tell you how to conduct this war, we would never do that.

But learn from our mistakes. Learn what we did in Afghanistan, learn what we did in Iraq, learn from what we did wrong. So we're asking you to here to be more precise.

As far as your targeting is concerned, more careful in terms of the buildings you take out and what's on top and what's underneath. And basically, we're here to help you and we're not trying to interfere, but you need some advice from a good friend. ACOSTA: I mean, Secretary Cohen, do you get any sense that they are

listening to that advice from the Biden administration, or the Israeli Defense Forces just plowing ahead with their strategy?

COHEN: I think they would be making a mistake if they do. On the one hand, as an Israeli would say, don't tell me what to do, I'm the one who's fighting over here and may die over here, and you're sitting back in Washington. But we're not sitting back in Washington, we have thousands of troops in the region now. We have two aircraft carrier battle groups. We have forces, even in in Qatar, in our base.

So we have real skin in the game as well, so it's not as if we're just giving you advice for remotely. So we have an opportunity to convey to you what we think will be in your interests and our interests, because it's in everyone's interest to make sure this doesn't go beyond what they're doing at this point and you need to think very carefully about what the images that is being created globally.

Because the Israelis had been attacked in a way they haven't, since the end of World War Two, since the Holocaust. This psyche has been really, really damaged. But on the other hand, I have to say, think about the long game here. You're going to have people like the UAE, the Emirates, you have Saudi Arabia, you have Bahrain. You are building a relationship with these countries. It will be very important for you in the future.

And so in doing so, take into account what they're giving you for advice. And also make sure that you get those hostages back.

Tom Friedman, I think had mentioned this before. He had a great piece a week or so ago, saying let's make a deal, an offer they can't refuse. Let's have a ceasefire if you get back all of the hostages they have. We will still come after you wherever you are, but we'll stop the bombing.

You give our hostages back and that puts the burden on Hamas to say no keep killing us, we don't care about how many Palestinians die, then I think, world opinions start to come back into balance, saying the Israelis were attacked barbarically and they responded with heavy, heavy loss being sustained by the Palestinian people. And here's an opportunity to find a way to say to Hamas, we'd like to have a ceasefire, but you give our hostages back in return.

ACOSTA: I also want to ask you about this. US Central Command, Pentagon is saying that a US Navy ship shot down more than a dozen drones fired by this Houthi controlled areas in Yemen. So far the conflict has stayed mostly contained, but it does seem to be ramping up.

[18:10:08]

Does a message need to be sent, more of a message need to be sent other than just shooting down drones periodically?

COHEN: I think a stronger message has to be made. You know, there's an irony in all of this because the Saudis were waging a war against the Houthi rebels, and they were killing a lot of innocent people in that process.

We stepped in and advise the Saudis, hey, pull back on that. You're creating too much of a humanitarian disaster. So here comes the Houthis now firing at us and others in the region, the Israelis included, and so, I think they're asking for trouble and the more they continue to do this, they're going to get hit harder.

That raises the specter, however, that Iran might see this as an opportunity to say, let's keep this up. If they kill some Houthi rebels, well, we can live with that and they can live with that, but the United States will get into it more and more and deeper and deeper with the Israelis and others.

So there's a strategy there that I think Iran and others are sitting back saying, let's see how we can really cause as much trouble as we can for the Israelis and the United States, and that's something we have to be concerned about.

So, so far, calibrating it, we will shoot down their drones, but if they hit one of our assets or kill any of our soldiers, they can expect to receive a very sharp response.

ACOSTA: All right, Secretary Cohen, great to talk to you as always, really appreciate it. Thanks so much.

COHEN: Thank you, Jim.

ACOSTA: All right, and still ahead, Donald Trump is back in New Hampshire trying to shore up support before its primary next month, and this is, as he is continuing his attacks on immigrants, saying they are "poisoning the blood of our country." We'll talk about that in just a few moments.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ACOSTA: Former President Donald Trump on the campaign trail today saying immigrants are "poisoning the blood of our country," a language often used by White supremacists.

CNN's Steve Contorno was there.

Steve, tell us more about these comments and how was the crowd reacting to all of this?

STEVE CONTORNO, CNN REPORTER: Jim, the rhetoric and the reaction from his supporters was very similar to what we saw in the 2015-2016 campaign from Trump. It was anti-immigrant and the crowd was overwhelmingly supportive of hearing that from the former president, and this is something that we have seen from his campaign consistently in the last month-and-a-half as he gets closer to the states actually voting.

We have seen him lean on a lot of the themes that made him a successful candidate in 2015, and really had a lot of pushback from the immigrant community as well.

Listen to what he had to say earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They are poisoning the blood of our country. That's what they've done. They poison -- mental institutions and prisons all over the world, not just in South America, not just the three or four countries that we think about, but all over the world they are coming into our country, from Africa, from Asia, all over the world, they are pouring into our country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CONTORNO: Now one of Trump's rivals, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis was in Iowa today and he was actually asked about this specific language that Trump used and DeSantis didn't push back against it.

In fact, he sort of piled on, he said of people who are crossing the border: "There definitely are some that are going to be involved in terrorism going forward" -- Jim.

ACOSTA: And Steve, Nikki Haley, Trump's closest competitor in the New Hampshire polls, she got a big endorsement this week from New Hampshire Governor Chris Sununu. Is the Trump campaign responding to that? Is Trump responding to that? What is he saying

CONTORNO: It's interesting, Jim, I talked to one of his campaign advisers before today's event, and they sort of shrugged off this endorsement. They said, they didn't think it would lead to a bounce. They thought they would see something similar to what we saw in Iowa, where the governor there endorsed Ron DeSantis, and he hasn't yet, to see that turned into a bump in the polls.

And yet, when Trump was speaking today to this New Hampshire audience, he was pretty critical of the state's governor. Listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: He has hurt himself so badly, so he has endorsed somebody that can't win, has no chance of winning and he is out there working, but he's a selfish guy.

He could have won the Senate at that time. Now, we couldn't get elected dog catcher, but he could have won the Senate, and we would have had a majority.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CONTORNO: Focus now will shift from New Hampshire to Iowa. We have DeSantis there tomorrow, as well as Nikki Haley and Trump returns to the Hawkeye State on Tuesday.

ACOSTA: All right, Steve Contorno, thank you very much. Let's discuss all of this and more now with "Vanity Fair" special

correspondent, Molly Jong-Fast and CNN political commentator, S.E. Cupp.

S.E., let me start with you, your reaction to Trump using White supremacist Klan language. I mean, there aren't any dog whistles here, this is with a bullhorn.

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No.

ACOSTA: The kind of language that he's using.

CUPP: Yes. He is not winking or nodding. Like you said, he is out and proud, as it were, and I think that's because not only is this kind of a go-to for him, but his base has condensed. It is still very loyal and rabid, we know that, but it is condensed.

The folks that might have come on board, maybe a little skeptically for the first go-round, for all the normal reasons, maybe economic policy, taxes, regulations, they're all gone. They're gone because they don't want the freak show and these kinds of storylines that come along with Trump.

[18:20:03]

So all that's really left are sort of like the conspiracy theory crowd and folks that would respond to this.

And so exploiting White fright, is I think something you're probably going to hear more from Trump over the next year as he is running for president again.

ACOSTA: Yes. I mean, Molly, Trump also today vowed to investigate prosecutors across the country, vowed to indemnify police officers as they crack down on crime. He called January 6 prisoners "hostages" again.

He also predicted that Americans will flee the country in droves if he wins the upcoming election. Let's listen to that one.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: As soon as we win, you know what's going to happen. People are going to flood out of the country. They're going to flood out, before we even do anything. They're going to leave the country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: What kind of a campaign platform is this?

MOLLY JONG-FAST, SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT, "VANITY FAIR": Well, I think one of the things that Trump is trying to do, which he did successfully in 2015-2016 and he has not been able to recapture is he wants that free media, right? In 2016, he got free media by saying crazy stuff. And he'd have that,

you know, it ended up being more than a billion dollars' worth of free media where he would say something crazy, then there would be the backlash, that would get coverage, too. Then there would be, you know, he doesn't really mean it.

You know, it would be a whole, like about four news cycles. You know, he'd say this thing about the blood of our country, and it would get him so much free media.

So I think there are two things happening here. What I think, S.E. was saying is right, that he knows that the people who really will go for him are those George Wallace types, the kind of people for whom, you know, they've never had a mainstream politician, or at least not for a long time, saying the quiet part out loud like this. And so they are very galvanized by it, because they truly do believe in this kind of horrendous rhetoric.

And then I think the other is that he is just trying to get those outrage news cycles going again, because he rode them to victory in 2016.

Now, I'm not sure it would, even if he could get them going, they would work for him now, because he's been doing this for so long.

But I do you think that's inadvertent or advertent, his goal.

ACOSTA: Yes, I guess, S.E., the question I have, though, is, how does this help Donald Trump win in places like the suburbs of Philadelphia, or in Michigan, or in Wisconsin?

You know, in Michigan, you have an Arab-American community that is upset with Joe Biden over Israel, and they hear Donald Trump go out there on the campaign trail and say that immigrants are poisoning the blood of the United States.

I mean, obviously, how does this work for him? How does he win back these voters who left him in droves in 2020?

CUPP: Right. I think he has probably written them off. I don't -- I haven't seen and, you know we've watched him and cover him extensively, I haven't seen him saying or doing anything really to reach out to those voters.

The voters in you know, tawny Detroit suburbs that he won in 2016, that I was frankly, very surprised he got a lot of those voters in, you know, leafy suburbs of Cleveland, for example.

I don't think he's trying to get them back. I think he's saying good riddance, and I'm going to double down on the bass that I have, which is why I think you're going to hear more and more of this because he needs every one of them to show up at the polls to make up for all of the sort of moderate, you know, Country Club Republicans, and certainly the Independents that that are just not here for this again.

ACOSTA: Yes, and Molly, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis is predicting Trump -- what Trump will do if he loses the Iowa caucuses next month. It was kind of interesting to hear Ron DeSantis say this. Let's listen to it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL), 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If Trump loses, he will say it's stolen no matter what. Absolutely, he will -- he will -- he will try to delegitimize the results.

He did that against Ted Cruz in 2016, and he will do that. I mean, even when like "The Apprentice" didn't get an Emmy, he said what he said.

So I think, I don't think there's been a single time he's ever been in competition for something where he didn't get it, where he has -- where he is accepted. I don't think he will do that.

So I think he's doing that. I think that that's to be expected, but I don't think people are going to buy it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Now there are about seven people standing behind Ron DeSantis, as he was saying that versus the hundreds or thousands that were in Manchester as Trump was talking about poisoning the blood of our country, but it is fascinating to hear Ron DeSantis essentially say that Trump is a sore loser who lies when he loses.

JONG-FAST: Yes, I mean, I think if DeSantis had said stuff like that when he was ahead, way at the beginning of his campaign, he would have been offering an alternative to Trump versus like this sort of watered down version of Trump policies, but further to the right without the charisma.

[18:25:10]

So yes, it is great that Ron DeSantis has gotten so brave, but he is doing it as like a Hail Mary pass. So I think it kind of undermines his message. But I do think -- I hate to say it, I agree with Ron DeSantis.

ACOSTA: Yes, and S.E., I mean, it's interesting. I guess the expectations game has already started. Matt Gaetz is out there campaigning for Trump. He is expressing some concern.

Take a listen to what he told voters in Iowa last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MATT GAETZ (R-FL): My only worry is low turnout. I don't want our folks, I don't want our fellow patriots, thinking well, a caucus is a little different than an election. I don't know how that really works. I don't know what I have to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP) ACOSTA: Are they trying to set the stage for Trump maybe

underperforming in Iowa or getting caught by surprise? And so you know, Trump voters don't know how to caucus or something, is that what Matt Gaetz is saying? I don't understand what he is saying.

CUPP: Yes, and Matt Gaetz is parroting Trump.

Trump earlier this week, I believe, was saying the same exact thing that it's about turnout, and if they don't get the turnout, you know, it's going to make a big difference. And so yes, I think they are worried about turnout.

And I think, in addition to that real practical concern, I think, you know, Trump is such a showman, right? I think, he is worried about the perception that if it's close, in Iowa, for example, that he'll lose that momentum and gain -- you know, lose this this very wide gap he has in the polls right now, between him and his nearest competitor, whether it's Haley or DeSantis given the poll.

I think he is worried about what that will look like and what that will say. And so yes, I think he wants to lower expectations, but also really drive turnout.

ACOSTA: Yes, Molly, I mean, what do you -- is there -- are we missing something here? I mean, the polls are so -- I mean, they are just so different this time around with the way Trump has this monumental lead.

It's just a little strange to hear Matt Gaetz saying, well, if people don't understand how to caucus, or they don't know what a caucus is, we might lose in Iowa.

JONG-FAST: Well, look, Trump lost in Iowa last time. I think they are worried and look, you know, again, we have another question about polls that has come to me.

ACOSTA: I know you love them.

JONG-FAST: You know, I think there's a lot of -- right, there's a lot of anxiety, and rightly so about polls, even on Donald Trump's side, right, because we have seen again, and again -- I can't believe I'm saying this again about a totally different polling topic -- but yes, it is --

There not -- you know, it's not science, right? And so I do think they're interesting, and quite frankly, they should be anxious.

ACOSTA: Yes.

JONG-FAST: I mean, also, we should all be anxious because he's a total autocrat, but that's --

CUPP: Yes.

ACOSTA: Well, and I know we've talked about this before, we'll talk about it again, it's not about the horse race, it is about the horse, something else that is being spread out there on the campaign trail. We heard some of that earlier today.

All right, Molly, S.E., Thanks to both of you. Appreciate it.

CUPP: Yes, sure.

ACOSTA: Still ahead, millions of people are under threat of severe weather in Florida as a powerful storm slams the state. This is a live look from Daytona where it is headed next. In the CNN NEWSROOM, stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:32:32]

ACOSTA: Tonight, millions of Americans from South Florida to the Northeast are bracing for another weekend storm. The system is now closing in on Florida, where it's expected to bring heavy rains and powerful gusts of wind before barreling up the East Coast.

Elisa Raffa is in the CNN Weather Center tracking the storm for us.

Elisa, this looks like a soaker for so many people up and down the East Coast over the next couple of days. It's - this is going to be nasty.

ELISA RAFFA, CNN: We're talking a footprint border to border, really up to the Canadian border, where we'll find even some significant rain there. I mean, you could see the radar is filling in here with some of that rain starting to turn a little bit heavier in pockets. And you see where you've got some of that lightning, that's the center of the storm continuing to develop and strengthen as it works its way up the East Coast.

Flood watches in effect through tomorrow morning for parts of Florida. And look at where they've been extended, 60 million people across 17 states with some floodwaters including D.C. up into New York and Boston there and Maine.

The severe threat for the overnight here in Florida, you see that yellow where we could still find some damaging wind gusts and a few tornadoes. And then it extends up into the Carolinas going into tomorrow from Charleston to Wilmington. That yellow area as well is where a couple of tornadoes are also possible going into tomorrow afternoon. And you can see where we get some of this heavy rain to really flourish on the overnight here across the Florida Peninsula.

And then tomorrow, it's the Carolinas. The Panthers have a game in Charlotte tomorrow. It's going to look pretty nasty, some of that heavy rain and the gusty winds. And then that storm system continues to work its way up the East Coast, taking with it heavy rain, some gusty winds and as it works its way up towards Maine.

Notice not a lot of snow. This typical track might give you some of those big blockbuster snows.

ACOSTA: Yes. RAFFA: But the air is just not cold enough. You've got some of the

rain footprint again, widespread, two to four inches all the way up the East Coast. Had it even up into upstate New York and Maine. And the winds with this will really pack a punch. It will start to strengthen even more where we're looking at some 30, 40-mile-per-hour gusts across the Carolinas and then off the coast of Long Island, Cape Cod going into Maine, looking at some 60-mile-per-hour gusts there. So take in and tie down those Christmas decorations.

ACOSTA: All right. That's good advice. I hope they don't get messed up.

All right. Elisa Raffa, thank you very much. Take cover, everybody. It's going to be a lot of rain coming down if you're on the East Coast.

Still ahead, a jury says Rudy Giuliani must pay millions of dollars for defaming two Georgia election workers. We talk to one of their attorneys next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:39:17]

ACOSTA: Tonight, the bills are piling up for Rudy Giuliani. Yesterday, a jury ordered the disgraced former mayor to pay $148 million to two Georgia election workers he defamed in the wake of the 2020 election.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER TRUMP ATTORNEY: taped earlier in the day of Ruby Freeman and Shaye Freeman Moss and one other gentleman quite obviously surreptitiously passing around USB ports as if they are vials of heroin or cocaine. I mean, it's obvious to anyone who's a criminal investigator or prosecutor they are engaged in surreptitious illegal activity, again, that day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: As we've noted many times on this program, none of those statements are true. But some Americans took Giuliani at his word, unleashing a torrent of attacks against the election workers.

[18:40:07]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Eat (inaudible) and die, you (inaudible) racist (inaudible). You are (inaudible) done you (inaudible) whore.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're going to burn your store down ...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have a nice life, what's left of it you have.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're all going to (inaudible) jail, you piece of (inaudible). (END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: In addition to the nearly $150 million he owes Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss, Giuliani also faces mounting legal fees, even unpaid phone bills.

CNN's Brian Todd has a look at Giuliani's finances.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GIULIANI: I know crimes. I can smell them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The man once known as America's mayor lauded for his integrity and leadership during and after 9/11 is tonight on the losing end of a nearly $150 million judgment in the Georgia civil defamation case.

Rudy Giuliani is already out of cash and under a mountain of legal bills and sanctions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: I don't think we're grasping how significant the bills are for Rudy Giuliani.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TODD (voice over): CNN's Katelyn Polantz has done extensive reporting on Giuliani's financial problems. In addition to this latest judgment, he owes more than a million dollars to defense attorneys who helped him on other matters prompting them to sue him. He was behind on nearly $60,000 for unpaid phone bills.

And this summer, he traveled to Mar-A-Lago to make a personal appeal to Donald Trump to help him pay his legal bills.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POLANTZ: The amount of money it costs to fight a lawsuit let alone almost a dozen lawsuits over the last two years, couple years, is - it is really mind-boggling, those numbers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TODD (voice over): In court, Giuliani's attorneys said he's facing 11 lawsuits and investigations. He's also been criminally indicted in Georgia related to the efforts by him, Donald Trump and others to overturn the 2020 election results in that state. He could face criminal charges in the special counsel's federal election interference case. And he's facing disbarment in New York and Washington.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL MOORE, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: He's attacked both in his professional arena, he's attacked in the civil court and now in the criminal court as well. And that is a - that's a heavy load to carry.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TODD (voice over): And Giuliani has admitted he's not been carrying it, at least not financially. During this definition trial, Giuliani's lawyer called the proceedings "the civil equivalent of the death penalty. They're trying to end Mr. Giuliani."

To deal with the money crunch, Giuliani is trying to sell his three- bedroom Manhattan apartment for $6.1 million and he was at one point offering to record video greetings for strangers on the website Cameo.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GIULIANI: I can do a happy birthday greeting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: He's always loved opera, but this is a tragic opera, make no mistake, and it's self-inflicted at this stage. It's heartbreaking to see.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TODD (voice over): The man who, as a prosecutor, took down the New York mafia, who turned around New York City's fortunes as mayor and who did at one time hold considerable personal wealth seems to have squandered it all for one man.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AVLON: He's destroyed his reputation and his independent financial foundation, all to help Donald Trump lie about an election. He threw it all away.

TODD (on camera): A spokesman for Giuliani declined to comment on his current financial state. It's not clear at the moment if he'll be able to shield himself from some of the damages in this latest judgment against him by declaring bankruptcy.

Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA: And Giuliani's lies have damaged the lives of Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss. Here's what they told reporters after the jury delivered their verdict.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHAYE MOSS, ELECTION WORKER DEFAMED BY RUDY GIULIANI: We hope no one ever has to fight so hard just to get your name back. RUBY FREEMAN, ELECTION WORKER DEFAMED BY RUDY GIULIANI: I can never

move back into the house that I called home. I will always have to be careful about where I go and who I choose to share my name with.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: And Meryl Conant Governski, the attorney for Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss, she joins me now.

Meryl, thank you very much for being with us. How are Ms. Freeman and Ms. Moss doing? Do they feel like they've gotten some justice after all of this?

MERYL CONANT GOVERNSKI, ATTORNEY FOR RUBY FREEMAN AND SHAYE MOSS: Yeah, certainly they feel like yesterday was a really great day. A great day for them, a great day for democracy, and a great day for all of us who are passionate about empowering victims of disinformation to use the law to fight back against powerful people like Rudy Giuliani who abuses his position.

But as both of my clients have said, money cannot fix the damage. You heard some of the absolutely vile, awful messages that they received by the hundreds mailed to their homes, text messages, voicemails. I mean, how do you ever undo the harm that is caused by being woken up in the middle of the night with people screaming profanities at you, it's really unimaginable.

[18:45:00]

So, of course, they feel vindicated that they took the brave step of getting on the witness stand and telling the truth and that the jury heard the truth and responded. But it really can't undo the absolute nightmare that they've been living in for the last three years.

ACOSTA: And I'm sure it's difficult to put your finger on a precise dollar figure at this point. But, I mean, there have been so many reports about Rudy Giuliani's finances just collapsing as he's continued to peddle all these lies on behalf of Donald Trump all these years. But how much do you expect your clients to receive from him?

GOVERNSKI: We heard a lot about what Mr. Giuliani owes and that he owes a lot. But I'm not so convinced that he doesn't have a lot. We, in the course of this litigation, have certainly learned not to take him at his word. The court ordered him multiple times to turn over financial documents. And you would think that if you didn't have money and you wanted to perhaps lessen the amount of money that a jury required you to pay, that you would want to substantiate the reported claims that you have no money, and he never did.

So I personally do not give Mr. Giuliani the benefit of the doubt for his claims of inability to pay. And I think, you know, we'll see once we follow the truth, which is something Mr. Giuliani usually doesn't tend to be closely aligned with.

ACOSTA: Right. Well, and we saw Giuliani double down on these lies after the verdict yesterday. Let's listen to this. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you still believe that what you said about these two women in the wake of the 2020 election was truthful?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you still believe these claims?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you still believe that (inaudible) ...

GIULIANI: I have no doubt that my comments were made and they were supportable and are supportable today. I just did not have an opportunity to present the evidence that we offered.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: What is this evidence that he's talking? I mean, obviously, it's just a lie and it doesn't look like he has a legal dream team around him. I mean, one of the guys behind him looks like he gets his haircuts at four seasons landscaping, but what is - do you plan to take these comments that Rudy Giuliani is making after this verdict and use them against him and go back to court? I mean, is that a possibility for your clients?

GOVERNSKI: Well, we already use them against him. One of one of our closing arguments to the jury is that anybody sitting in the courtroom this week, hearing the heroic, brave testimony of our client, could not walk away from that touched, moved and remorseful about the state of politics in our world, that this is where we are, except for Mr. Giuliani.

And so the fact that he went out there and spread lies the very day that he learned and came face to face with the women whose lives he's ruined shows that he's utterly incapable of rehabilitation. And so the jury answered that by slapping this enormous and rightfully deserved verdict on him.

So I think he - we've already used his words against him and he absolutely should expect to hear from us if he continues to defame our clients. No options are off the table.

ACOSTA: And I heard one of your clients make - mention that they may be interested in maybe pursuing some other lawsuits against other figures who were a part of all of these lies after the 2020 election. Might they sue Donald Trump?

GOVERNSKI: Our clients certainly have shown that they are willing to stand up and speak truth to power and to clear their names. And so they are considering and evaluating all options at this point.

ACOSTA: All right. Meryl Conant Governski, thank you very much for your time this evening. We appreciate it.

GOVERNSKI: Thanks so much for having me.

ACOSTA: All right. Best of luck to your clients. Still ahead, right wing conspiracy theorist Alex Jones makes a new

settlement offer to the families of the Sandy Hook shooting victims, but it's only a fraction of what they are owed because of his lies. We'll break down those details next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:53:32]

ACOSTA: Alex Jones is proposing a settlement with the families of Sandy Hook school shooting victims. The right wing conspiracy theorist is asking families to accept a small fraction of what they are owed. Jones was ordered to pay more than a billion dollars after losing civil defamation cases.

CNN's Polo Sandoval joins us now.

I guess Polo, fill us in on all of this. I guess Jones doesn't want to shell out the $1 billion. He's trying to do a lot less than that, what's going on?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He's proposing really, Jim, just a fraction of what the Sandy Hook families initially proposed would be an adequate settlement number. We've actually gone through the very lengthy legal document that was filed just yesterday. And we've broken it down into several key points in terms of what Alex Jones is proposing as its settlement, which would include Sandy Hook families as a group and those who agreed to settle would receive at least $5.5 million a year over the next decade. Also, potentially receive a little bit more of Jones' income as well, depending on several factors.

The families would also receive 70 percent of money that Jones makes selling the personal property outside of the bankruptcy court arrangements in exchange. Families would then give up legal claims against Jones.

Now, compare that $5.5 million number to the $8.5 million a year that the families in court filing just last month recommended as a settlement. Also, for a pretty substantial ownership stake in Jones' company.

[18:55:03]

And furthermore, the family also threatened with a complete liquidation of all of his assets if he does not agree to their proposal.

Now, ultimately, what will the terms of the settlement be, Jim? That's a question that will have to be answered by a judge in a few months' time, actually in late February that's when in a hearing they will decide that. But really, despite losing in civil court, he hasn't remained quiet.

In fact, he's been allowed to return to the social media platform X. In addition to that, in court filing, he's also showing that he's been spending some pretty extravagant numbers as well. CNN has reached out, Jim, to his attorneys for comment.

ACOSTA: All right. Polo Sandoval, thank you very much for that update. We appreciate it and we'll be right back.

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