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Top U.S. Defense Leaders On Way To Advise Israel; Aid Enters Gaza Through Israeli Kerem Shalom Crossing; Gaza Largest Hospital Overwhelmed With Patients; Hong Kong Media Tycoon Jimmy Lai's National Security Trial Begins; Chile Rejects Conservative Constitution, Leaving Pinochet-Era Text In Force. Israel Flooding Some Hamas Tunnels in Gaza; Trump Ramps Up Anti-Immigration Rhetoric at Nevada Rally; U.S. Senators Struggle to Reach Deal in Immigration Reform; Notre-Dame Restoration Milestone. Aired 1-2a ET
Aired December 18, 2023 - 01:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: Appreciate your company. Coming up here on CNN Newsroom. The U.S. Secretary of State set to meet with Benjamin Netanyahu ramping up pressure on Israel to define the next phase of the war with Hamas.
This says the IDF claims it's discovered the biggest commerce tunnel in Gaza and describing it as an underground terrorist city.
And Hong Kong pro-democracy media tycoon Jimmy Lai on trial at this hour facing his most consequential legal challenge today.
ANNOUNCER: Live from Atlanta. This is CNN Newsroom with Michael Holmes.
HOLMES: Just hours from now the U.S. Defense Secretary will arrive in Israel his second trip to the country since the October 7 attack by Hamas and U.S. officials said Lloyd Austin will meet with Israeli officials for updates on the war, but he's also expected to press them to define specific operational milestones and work to drill down on efforts to boost humanitarian aid to Gaza.
His visit comes as he Israel Defense Forces says it's uncovered the biggest Hamas tunnel in Gaza wide enough to drive a large vehicle through that tunnel which the IDF says was secured a few weeks ago was made public on Sunday. And Israeli military spokesperson describes what the IDF says it found.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REAR ADMIRAL DANIEL HAGARI, ISRAELI DEFESNE FORCES SPOKESPERSON (through translator): So far we have uncovered more than four kilometers of the tunnels webs. This is a flagship project of Hamas. It reaches a depth of 50 meters below the surface of the earth.
Inside the tunnels, we found many weapons. This is no ordinary tunnel. It is a city of terror underground that Hamas dug and built instead of investing money in the residents of Gaza.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Meanwhile, the IDF is claiming to have what he calls Operational Control over parts of Khan Younis in southern Gaza and claims through struck what it says was terrorist infrastructure there. CNN could not independently verify either of those claims. Some of the images coming out of Gaza continue to be graphic and that includes our next video, which is difficult to watch.
It comes from Jabalya in northern Gaza, where a senior official in the Hamas controlled health ministry says at least 24 people were killed, dozens more wounded in what is thought to have been an Israeli airstrike on Sunday.
He says the house sheltering displaced families was hit the majority of the casualties, women and children. CNN's Jeremy Diamond is following developments from Tel Aviv and has more now on Israel -- Israeli military's discovery of that Hamas tunnel.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, the Israeli military on Sunday revealing new video of what it is calling the largest Hamas tunnel that they have discovered inside the Gaza Strip.
In the past, we've seen tunnels that the Israeli military has discovered, where individuals would have to walk single file in order to get through them very narrow, but this one is quite wide, in fact wide enough to drive a large vehicle through it, according to the Israeli military. It reaches up to 50 meters underground, and it's equipped with everything from electricity to ventilation and communication systems.
The Israeli military says that it is part of a broader network of tunnels that spans two and a half miles or about four kilometers. This tunnel didn't actually cross into Israel, but it appears to have been used by Hamas within the Gaza Strip. And it comes out very close to one of the key crossing points between Israel and Gaza. And that is the Erez crossing, which was also a key site that Hamas militants attacked on October 7 and then cross into Israel from there.
There's no evidence at this point that this tunnel was used as part of that October 7, attack but the size and the scale of this tunnel just shows the capacity that Hamas had to build these large networks of tunnels, of which Hamas says that there are hundreds of miles beneath Gaza. Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Tel Aviv.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: For the first time since October 7 aid trucks are entering Gaza directly from Israeli territory. Israeli officials say 79 trucks pass through the Kerem Shalom border crossing into southern Gaza on Sunday. 122 more entered through the Rafah crossing from Egypt.
The United Nations says the amount of aid coming into Gaza is still less than half of pre-war levels not nearly enough.
[01:05:02]
France is welcoming the opening of the Kerem Shalom border crossing but says more action is needed to provide aid for civilians in Gaza. France's foreign minister visited Tel Aviv on Sunday. She says her country is concerned about the quote, catastrophic and tragic situation in Gaza and is calling for Israel to implement an immediate ceasefire.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CATHERINE COLONNA, FRENCH FOREIGN MINISTER (through translator): The systematic bombardments are causing too much suffering. Israel must preserve the lives of civilian populations, as international law demands it and must agree to a ceasefire which would allow for the liberation of hostages. It must allow aid and the distribution of aid in much bigger volumes whilst the population is exposed and suffers from many things. It must maintain the functioning of hospitals and medical institutions.
And as we have said before, not allowing enough aid to populations that need enough humanitarian aid to respond to their needs, would constitute a violation of humanitarian rights.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: The World Health Organization meanwhile, says Gaza is Al-Shifa Hospital is completely overwhelmed. W.H.O. staff visited the facility to deliver critical surgical supplies and medicines. They say the hospital is barely functional.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEAN CASEY, EMERGENCY MEDICAL TEAMS COORIDNATOR FOR W.H.O. IN GAZA: This largest repairs hospital -- referral hospital here in Gaza has become a trauma stabilization point. They can only provide the most basic care for people with very serious injuries and very serious illnesses.
There are women delivering in these common spaces that are just absolutely packed to the brim. Most patients are on the floor. A few are in beds and stretchers behind me. The emergency department is just covered in blood and there are very few staff.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Joining me now is Hani Almadhoun. He's the director of philanthropy for UNRWA USA and a guest on this program more than once. It's good to see. So we just heard sound from one of that who team which went to Al Shifa, Gazan's biggest hospital describing the emergency department as a bloodbath. Little more than a trauma stabilization point, he said.
What is happening to people in Gaza when it comes to effective medical treatment at the moment? HANI ALMADHOUN, DIRECTOR OF PHILANTHROPY, UNRWA USA: Frankly, it's horrifying, like and you know, it's been just a nightmare unfolding every day, there is a new blow every day there is a tragic story. You know, a lot of people at the hospitals like up north like Shifa and Kamal Adwan they come and describe horrifying stories and you know, unfathomable tragedies that we tried to crisis here, what is happening that people are just dying from simple injuries.
You know, we have relatives who have been shot in the foot and then they like two weeks later, we have to bury them in Gaza, because there is no medical care. The evacuations are not happening from north to better hospitals or maybe more equipped hospitals in the South.
As you know, the five or six major hospitals in the north are all just offline, always trying to do as much as we can in the primary care. We're trying to get fuel to those hospitals. But if they're in the north, it is harder to get to them. It's almost impossible.
We have not made any deliveries to those heartbeat, hospitals from fuel and now even Khan Younis which is the south as you know, is becoming harder to access and very safe and dangerous.
So, basically the U.N. agency that provides aid have been limited to a small town of the South called Rafah and that's pretty much it.
HOLMES: Yes, and they and the population of Rafah has quadrupled over the course of this conflict. So facilities there are under enormous strain. It's been raining in Gaza, countless people living under plastic shelters and precious little sanitary facilities. As I say Rafah's population has quadrupled.
More aid has come in but doesn't change the underlying crisis at all. Not just food and medical needs but as I said shelter as well.
ALMADHOUN: Yes, we're hearing about more aid hopefully with the new Kerem Sholom crossing that's going to be able to process more trucks for the last week or so. It's been 100 trucks a day. You know the need that they need right now in Gaza is 1,000 trucks a day because there's, you know, they've lost everything and they need everything right now. From blankets, to bread, to flour to what have you to really three meals, but it is not -- it is not being delivered.
You know, we're oftentimes trying to deliver to areas where we're allowed to go operate, we can just go deliver any place. Despite this we're losing staff more than 135. This is not an easy number to share. 135 U.N. staff have been killed in Gaza. More than 120 buildings have been damaged.
[01:10:04]
So there's a safety concern and he's you know, there is there is no police, right? How do you deliver? How do you feel safe, trying to deliver aid desperate community. There's a lot of issues where some of our staff feels like, you know, despite personal harm, and lack of security, they tried to go to the shelters to deliver, you know, more than 90,000 families have received to already outside the shelters. But we have to remember, there's 1.3 million families and 1.3 million
refugees inside 155 buildings. Michael, this is like 55 percent of the population of Gaza, just living in 155 buildings. And you can imagine, it takes, you know, there's 450 people for every toilet.
HOLMES: I was actually reading the UNRWA update and saw that statistic 1.4 million civilians in 155 UNRWA shelters, which is just a staggering number, but I think people often forget how small Gaza is, 40 or so kilometers by around 10 to 12 kilometers at its widest, and most of the 2 million population is now crammed into a third of that in the south.
The UNRWA Commissioner General this past week said the strip is now essentially uninhabitable. Is that your feeling as well? Is that what you're hearing?
ALMADHOUN: 100 percent. My family remains north and they're moving from one shelter to another. You know, you've seen these unclothed men last two weeks ago. Some of them were my family members. There is a lot of those horrifying stories that I'm getting and personal accounts.
But yes, it is not a place where there's water. Basically my family told me they're lucky if they can get couple of dates a day. So this is just, you know, that's their diet and unfortunately now that's reality in Gaza very unsafe. Very, you know, there is little supplies and even if you had money, you know, you couldn't buy anything. I can get money to my family in Gaza, yet alone make a phone call to them.
This is reality where we run into Gaza. And despite this, we have 5,000 colleagues at UNRWA trying to deliver come through, but really nobody's equipped to answer the crisis in Gaza right now. Despite on what the largest humanitarian actor, you know, this is just too much and we feel just overwhelmed right now.
HOLMES: It is an increasingly desperate situation. Hani Almadhoun, thank you so much. Appreciate your time.
ALMADHOUN: Well, it was a joy to talk to you.
HOLMES: As the humanitarian crisis in Gaza grows, CNN has gathered a list of vetted organizations on the ground are responding. You can find details on how you can help on our website cnn.com/impact.
Well, right now more than 55 million Americans are under flood watches from North Carolina to Vermont. The storm system out of the Gulf brought heavy rain and severe weather to Florida on Sunday. The system now sprinting along the eastern seaboard dumping lots of rain in the Carolinas Mid Atlantic and the Northeast.
There's a slight risk of excessive rainfall up and down the east coast before daybreak Eastern Time. The storm will spend most of Monday bringing a nor'easter conditions along the coastal northeast minus the snow fortunately. New England will get the heaviest rains and strongest winds on Monday. Hundreds of people were rescued from floodwaters after remnants of
Tropical Cyclone Jasper dumped intense rain on Northeastern Australia. Officials say there's still potential for life threatening flash floods in the area. Authorities say people sought safety on rooftops and some was stuck there all night.
And there are concerns about safe drinking water, sewage overflows and power outages. So far, fortunately, no reports of any deaths or injuries but more rain is expected on Monday.
In Argentina though there has been death and intense storm leaving at least 13 people dead and others injured in a town outside Buenos Aires. Winds reportedly reached 140 kilometers an hour. Official say at least 300 people had to be evacuated in the middle of the night.
Argentine President Javier Milei says his cabinet is working with local authorities to help victims recover from the storm.
Still to come. After years in government custody, Hong Kong pro- democracy supported Jimmy Lai gets his day in court. We're live outside the courthouse with more on the landmark trial for you.
Also, a second straight year voters in Chile rejecting a proposed new constitution. Why the country keeps trying and failing to replace a constitution written during a dictatorship. That's when we come back.
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[01:18:44]
HOLMES: Trial is now underway in Hong Kong to decide the fate of media tycoon Jimmy Lai, a supporter of the city's pro-democracy movement, and founder of the now shuttered Apple Daily newspaper. Lai's anti- Beijing newspaper was forced to shut down in 2021 following his detention in 2020.
He's being trialed under Hong Kong sweeping National Security Law facing multiple charges of colluding with foreign forces and to separate charges of sedition. The maximum penalty is life in prison.
CNN's Kristie Lu Stout is following the story from outside the court in Hong Kong. This is a really high profile trial. It puts a spotlight on China's clamp down on Hong Kong. Walk us through what's been happening.
KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Michael, here in Hong Kong we're standing right outside the West Kowloon Magistrates Court for the very first day of the National Security trial of the China credit the media mogul Jimmy Lai.
Outside the courtroom security has been tightened. Authorities have warned against any disruption. Inside the courtroom, Jimmy Lai was seen wearing a gray suit he appeared noticeably thinner, he appeared calm. He was also surrounded by at least for corrections officers who were guarding him.
[01:20:03]
He also said hello and smile that number of supporters in the courtroom. Just a moment ago they had a break for lunch, we saw Jimmy Lai's daughter walk into the courtroom to watch proceedings. A number of people in Hong Kong and around the world are paying very close attention to this trial, because it is seen as a test of Hong Kong's freedoms in the wake of the imposition of the National Security Law by Beijing, on the territory. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LU STOUT (voice-over): Consider considered by many as a father figure to Hong Kong's pro-democracy movement. Jimmy Lai always knew his actions might attract the ire of authorities, but he didn't let it faze him.
JIMMY LAI, FORMER CHAIRMAN AND FOUNDER, NEXT DIGITAL: I think it's a good idea, anytime, any situation that you are in to fight for your freedom, because without freedom, you have nothing left.
LU STOUT (voice-over): In a recent media briefing, China's Ministry of Foreign Affairs, not holding back in their criticism of lie, calling him quote, one of the most notorious anti-China elements bent on destabilizing Hong Kong.
After numerous delays, the former media mogul returning to court to finally face trial under Hong Kong sweeping National Security Law. Since that legislation was imposed by Beijing in response to massive social unrest and anti-government protests, authorities have cracked down on dissent.
Today, most of Hong Kong's political opposition are either in prison like lie, or have fled the territory. As the founder of the Apple Daily wants Hong Kong's largest pro-democracy newspaper, which regularly challenged the government, Lai is the most high profile critic of Beijing charged under the National Security Law.
He faces a maximum sentence of life in prison on multiple counts of colluding with foreign forces to endanger national security, as well as a single charge of sedition under a law that dates back to Hong Kong's colonial past. 76 year old Lai has been in custody for the last three years. And his son is concerned that incarceration is taking its toll.
SEBASTIAN LAI, JMMY LAI'S SON: I think psychologically is very strong, but there is there always is that there's nobody escapes the gravity of age and his age. He is at a tremendous amount of risk being in maximum security.
LU STOUT (voice-over): For its part, the Hong Kong government says that all cases concerning offenses that endanger national security, including Lai's are handled in a fair and timely manner.
In a statement to CNN, a spokesperson said quote, without commenting on individual cases, the Hong Kong SAR law enforcement agencies have been taking law enforcement actions based on evidence and strictly in accordance with the law in respect of the acts of the persons or entities concerned.
Lai was a fixture at the student led pro-democracy and anti-government demonstrations that brought central Hong Kong to a standstill in 2014. When millions of people took to the streets in 2019, Lai was there once again.
Just months later, Lai was marched out of his own newsroom when more than 200 police officers raided the Apple Daily's headquarters.
A year on, Lai's printing presses fell silent as the paper shuttered a blow to media freedom in Hong Kong. Lai's legal challenges have mounted ever since. His lengthy rap sheet worn as a badge of honor after a lifetime of demanding democratic reform.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LU STOUT: And Michael, in the last few days, the governments of the United States, U.K. also the Committee to Protect Journalists or CPJ of all criticize a trial. They have called for the immediate release of Jimmy Lai of the Hong Kong government has repeatedly said that press freedom and freedom of the speech are enshrined in the Basic Law. That's the mini constitution here in Hong Kong, and that they are not at risk. Back to you.
HOLMES: And more broadly, what does this trial say about Hong Kong's legal system and importantly, how it's changed under the National Security Law.
LU STOUT: You know, unlike mainland China, Hong Kong follows a common law system. But this common law tradition has deviated because of the National Security Law with these national security law cases. There is no jury present. There are judges that are handpicked or hand selected by the Chief Executive of Hong Kong, that's a top leader of Hong Kong.
There's a higher threshold for bail, and also the Hong Kong government has blocked Jimmy Lai from being represented by a British lawyer. Critics point out that the National Security Law has undermined judicial independence in Hong Kong. Hong Kong's response to that and China's response to that It is that this is a matter of national security and that foreign entities should not interfere. Back to you
[01:25:06]
HOLMES: All right, Kristie Lu Stout there covering this important trial for us in Hong Kong.
Voters in Chile have rejected a new draft constitution to replace the existing one which is a holdover from the dictatorship years of Augusto Pinochet. It is the second time in less than two years the Chileans have rejected proposed changes to their charter. CNN's Cristopher Ulloa has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CRISTOPHER ULLOA, CNN EN ESPANOL CORRESPONDENT: Once again, Chile said no to our proposal for a new constitution weighed in this year by a right handed Constitutional Council. As reported by Chile's Electoral Service with 99 percent of the tables counted, 55.7 percent of Chileans decided to go with the option against this new proposal, or text much more conservative than the text that we have in last year's referendum.
In example, there was a part of the text that I was looking for to protect the life of the unborn, contrary to the actual laws of abortion in three grounds that we have in Chile. We must remember that this whole process started in 2020 after the riots and the protests of the social outbursts of 2019 where Chileans demanded among many other demands a new constitution.
Now, almost three years later, the actual constitution created during military dictatorship of Augusto Pinochet will remain in force.
President Gabriel Boric has already said that, at least in his term, there will not be a third constitutional process. The press conference he also said that he already instructed to his ministers to keep working out to put urgency to the pensions reform, and also to keep improving a new fiscal pact, as well as to keep working on new health and social proposals.
For CNN, Cristopher Ulloa, Santiago, Chile.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: Kuwait's Emir Sheikh Nawaf al-Ahmad al-Jaber al-Sabah has died at the age of 86. Only close relatives attended his funeral Sunday per royal court instructions. The cause of his death was not immediately disclosed, but he was admitted to hospital last month for what state media called, quote an emergency health problem. The Crown Prince has been named as successor and a 40-day mourning period announced.
Still to come on the program, the Israeli military now planning to destroy what it calls the biggest Hamas tunnel in Gaza. And it's testing out ways to degrade the vast tunnel network by flooding them with seawater.
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[01:31:14]
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back. You're watching CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Michael Holmes.
The Israeli military says it plans to destroy what it calls the biggest Hamas tunnel in Gaza. Israel says it was secured a few weeks ago, but the discovery was only announced on Sunday.
The IDF claims it was used for Hamas troop movements and as a launching point for attacks. Israel says the tunnel is about four kilometers long, or roughly 2.5 miles, and has electricity, ventilation and communications systems.
Meanwhile, a U.S. official says the IDF has been testing out ways to degrade the vast Hamas tunnel system by flooding some of the tunnels with seawater.
But it's a risky operation, as CNN's Nic Robertson reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: The tunnels themselves are big. Big enough for fighters and their weapons seen here in this Hamas propaganda video, which was also posted by the Israel Defense Force. They are reinforced with concrete, too.
Two years ago, Hamas claimed to have built 500 kilometers, more than 300 miles of them. The tunnels are spread all over Gaza, this map over two years old.
The IDF says that they've discovered 800 tunnel shafts so far and have destroyed 500 of them. The entrances are often well-hidden --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a 20-meter tunnel.
ROBERTSON: -- as I was shown by the IDF near a Gaza hospital, really well-hidden which means the tunnels can be really hard to find.
The idea of flooding the tunnels using the abundant seawater that's along the many miles of Gaza's Mediterranean shore is apparently a creative idea, not just to destroy Hamas, and quite literally flush them out, but also to reach the parts of tunnels that might never be discovered from above ground.
Now, it's not without its risks. There could be hostages in those tunnels.
There are very few details about how precisely the water is getting into those tunnels, how much water, how fast it's going in, or what you do, if you suddenly discover you're flooding hostages other than the IDF say they have begun carefully testing it and that this method is being trailed (ph) on a limited, limited basis.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a tunnel --
ROBERTSON: Some of the tunnels are thought to be five floors deep. Some of the hostages who were freed have described them. This elderly hostage helped by her daughter.
YOCHEVED LIFSHITZ, FORMER HOSTAGE (through translator): We began walking inside the tunnels with the wet ground. It was moist all the time.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There are huge, huge networks of tunnels underneath. It looks like a spider web.
ROBERTSON: The IDF says it will proceed cautiously to make sure they are not flooding tunnels where the hostages are being held.
It's significant that more than six weeks into the ground campaign, this full scale of the tunnel problem is only now really becoming apparent, even controlling the streets above. It's not enough to locate all the tunnels. So flooding seems to be the new best option to really probe the extent of the invisible subterranean network. Both destroying Hamas hiding there, and denying it their use.
[01:34:53]
ROBERTSON: Of course, a key caveat in success here is, if you can't find the tunnel, and it's not connected to a system you're already flooding, how effective can you be about flooding it and knowing that you're hitting, destroying the whole of the tunnel network?
Nic Robertson, CNN -- London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: For more, I'm joined by Daphne Richemond-Barak in Herzliya Israel. She's an assistant professor of diplomacy and strategy at Reichman University's Lauder School of Government. Also the author of "Underground Warfare".
Thanks for being with us.
And to that point, you literally wrote the book on underground warfare. What do you make of the extent, the complexity of the Hamas tunnel system we've seen so far, and the sheer size of this most recently revealed tunnel?
DAPHNE RICHEMOND-BARAK, REICHMAN UNIVERSITY'S LAUDER SCHOOL OF GOVERNMENT: Sure, Hamas definitely has perfected the art of tunnel warfare. It has one of the most sophisticated, vast and impressive tunnel network ever seen in the history of warfare. Even if you compare it to the network that was discovered by the U.S. forces shortly after 9/11 in Afghanistan, this is by all means an enemy that has entrenched into the subterranean environment for almost two decades.
So definitely, it has figured out and it has overcome a lot of the disadvantages of this terrain. It has turned them into its advantage. And today it has the upper-hand in Gaza, thanks to this network.
And this is why without the distraction of Hamas' vast military structure underground, the war really cannot end.
HOLMES: In a practical sense, how difficult would it be to totally destroy this tunnel network, given its size?
RICHEMOND-BARAK: There are several methods available to neutralize tunnels, to render them temporarily unusable. But there are very few methods to destroy, to eliminate, to carry out what we call a hard kill of the tunnel structure, meaning to collapse the walls and the ceiling of the structure so that cannot be used again.
And so the methods to destroy a tunnel network are very few and far between, and most of them are very destructive. If you look back at the history of warfare, the way that states have
generally dealt or contended with subterranean threat is by deploying their most powerful weapons, and for the most part, aerial weapons. So bunker buster bombs, B-52s, flamethrowers, and precision guided strikes.
HOLMES: Yes, the difficulty being in an area as populated as Gaza, with 2 million people in an area 40 kilometers by 10, that becomes problematic in that sense, in a military sense.
I want to ask you too. I mean Gaza is one of the most surveilled places in the world, drones constantly overhead, myriad other intel resources directed at it.
I guess in a way, is it surprising that Hamas in a military sense would use tunnels in a place like Gaza, as opposed to operating above ground. It's not really surprising, is it?
RICHEMOND-BARAK: I don't think that the reason why Hamas has made such a deep use of the underground is because of the civilian populated area. I think it's more because of the strategic advantage that this terrain affords a terrorist group like Hamas in a war against an enemy that is militarily advance and sophisticated.
And the reason why I say that is because the underground, what it does is that it neutralizes the capability, the advanced capabilities of the Israeli Defense Forces, just as ISIS used the underground to neutralize the asymmetry between itself and the coalition against ISIS, both in Syria and in Iraq.
So we see terrorist groups since, you know, in the last two decades, really using this terrain more and more. Al-Qaeda, al-Qaeda and the Islamic Maghreb, ISIS, Hezbollah at the border between Israel and Lebanon, and of course, Hamas, which has made, as I said earlier, the most extensive use of this terrain.
And so what the underground does is that it equalizes between the parties, it reduces the asymmetry between the parties. So this is the great appeal of the underground and the underground has maintained its appeal, even though the technology has greatly improved in the last decade since Operation Protective Edge, which was the latest great confrontation between Hamas and Israel.
Since then, Israel understood that it had to ramp up its efforts when it came to tunnel warfare. And it has today probably the most sophisticated technology.
[01:39:54]
RICHEMOND-BARAK: But still, the challenge remains. Subterranean warfare is always incredibly complex militarily, especially when combined with urban warfare.
HOLMES: I was just about to ask you that. That when it comes to the use of tunnels in warfare I mean and how they're used, how did they complicate in this sense the military strategies of the IDF, the efforts to eliminate the tunnels, to eliminate Hamas, but recover hostages in this sort of environment?
RICHEMOND-BARAK: Tunnels complicate and change everything. They call for a re-assumption, a rethinking, sorry, of all the assumptions that usually prevail on the battlefield.
How do you secure the ground? How do you rescue soldiers? What kind of combat can you expect? You are looking at a combat -- at you know, soldiers very much alone underground. The traditional means of communication do not work. What kind of equipment do send your soldiers in?
But I think looking back more, you know, more specifically what's going on in Gaza right now, the head of the Israeli security agency called this a war of tunnel pits, of tunnel shafts because the IDF has been really surprised to find hundreds upon hundreds of tunnel holes in the ground. And these holes, they allow the Hamas fighters to pop in and out, to surprise the forces, to fire at them, and then kind of hide again underground.
So they present a major risk to the forces and they, of course, first and foremost I want to say, actually, they threatened the civilian population that is above ground. They weakened the civilian infrastructure. There are risks of collapses and explosions.
And so these tunnels, they are the copycat military operation. But let's not forget also that in what precarious situation they also placed the civilian population that lives in its vicinity.
HOLMES: Yes, it's complicated. Daphne Richemond-Barak, thank you so much. Appreciate your time and your expertise.
RICHEMOND-BARAK: Thank you.
HOLMES: Quick break here on the program.
When we come back, Donald Trump on the campaign trail, doubling down on his tirade against undocumented immigrants in a state with a large migrant and Latino population. His incendiary rhetoric -- that's when we come back.
[01:42:13]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: Donald Trump is vowing a harsh crackdown on illegal immigration if he is reelected as president. At a rally in Nevada on Sunday, he stoked fears about migrants crossing the border from Mexico, claiming they were from mental institutions and prisons in other countries.
Trump also emphasized his plans for what he called, quote, "the largest deportation in American history".
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Given the unprecedented millions of Biden illegal aliens who are invading our country, it is only common sense that when I am reelected we will begin, and we have no choice, the largest deportation operation in American history.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Those comments coming one day after Trump accused undocumented immigrants of, quote, "poisoning of the blood" of the country, a phrase that many have associated with Adolf Hitler-type language.
U.S. Senators are struggling to reach a deal on immigration reform, even though Democrats are hoping to have a vote this week. Many Republicans say that's probably not going to happen.
CNN chief congressional correspondent Manu Raju with the latest.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Senators have spent the weekend trying to see if they can get any sort of compromise on the issue of immigration, dealing with the surge at the southern border of Mexico, among migrants coming into the United States, changing border policy, things that have really eluded Congress for decades.
They want to try to get an agreement now in order to see if they can unlock aid to Israel and Ukraine. Because Republicans have said the border must be dealt with first before they'll agree to greenlighting billions of dollars in more aid to Ukraine as well as aid to Israel which is why so much focus is on these talks that are happening in the Senate.
There's already blowback, some from the right who are concerned that Republicans are giving away too much, not pushing for enough restrictive policies.
And then a growing number of critics on the left worried about Joe Biden giving away too much. Some flatly warning that it could cost him at the ballot box.
Why do you think the president is struggling so much with Hispanic voters compared to last time?
SEN. ALEX PADILLA (D-CA): Well look, I'm not as worried about that yet. I think if he does go too far in the Trump direction when it comes to this, it's going to be felt at the ballot box next year, no doubt about it.
SEN. BOB MENENDEZ (D-NJ): I am amazed that what is the equivalent of Trumpian ideas is being promoted by President Biden and the Democratic White House.
RAJU: If they were to get a deal it would take time to draft the text, to get approval from the four different caucuses in the House and the Senate, actually set up the votes in the Senate which takes some time, getting it out of the Senate. And in fact, the House is actually out until January. This would not
even get approved until January. And we'll see how Republicans and Democrats alike react to any deal that is reached. It could potentially sink in the House as well.
So just so many questions about whether they can get there. But negotiators say they have been making progress, but is that enough progress to get a deal that can pass both chambers?
That remains a huge question at this critical moment.
Manu Raju, CNN -- Washington.
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HOLMES: The Florida Republican Party has voted to censure its chair, Christian Ziegler, who's accused of raping a woman with whom she and his wife were planning a sexual encounter. In an emergency meeting on Sunday, the state parties stopped short of removing Ziegler, but they are stripping him of nearly all authority and cutting his salary to $1.
Ziegler and his wife Bridget are being denounced for hypocrisy and accused of scandalous sexual behavior. Bridget Ziegler is the co- founder of the conservative group, Moms for Liberty, which calls itself a defender of family values.
Christian Ziegler is not being charged with a crime. He says he is innocent.
Restoration of the Notre-Dame Cathedral has entered its final stages. Coming up, the golden bird now roosting atop the Gothic landmark.
We will be right back.
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HOLMES: People around the world watched Notre-Dame Cathedral burn nearly four years ago. The restoration might not be on scheduled to meet the original goal of reopening before the Paris Olympics, but an event over the weekend symbolizes the enormous progress that workers have made.
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HOLMES: flying high over the Paris skyline, a golden rooster is hoisted to its new perch on top of the newly-rebuilt spire of Notre- Dame cathedral, scheduled to reopen in a year.
The rooster, made of gold-colored copper, is a crowning milestone in the church's reconstruction after a blazing fire destroyed the roof of the historic structure four and a half years ago.
PHILIPPE JOST, PRESIDENT, REBUILDING NOTRE-DAME DE PARIS (through translator): The rooster now means it's the very end of the rebuilding of the spire. It stands 96 meters tall. And once the roofers will have covered the spire, we will be able to take the scaffolding off and that's when Parisians, and everyone who walks past will be able to see this flamboyant rooster.
HOLMES: The rooster is a longtime symbol of France, but this one shining in the sunlight is more like a phoenix rising from the ashes.
Its predecessor a weathervane that sat atop a wooden spire crashed through the ceiling of the cathedral in 2019 when it became engulfed in flames. Workers say it's been a labor of love to help this new bird get off the ground.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's something I'm really proud of, because you only do it once in your life, you don't do it twice. So, it's going to be engraved in my memory for a very long time.
HOLMES: Before it was sent aloft, the roster was blessed by the Archbishop of Paris, who placed the tube inside it listing the names of hundreds of people who took part in the reconstruction.
Just over a week ago, the French President Emmanuel Macron visited the construction site and said work was on track for the cathedral to reopen on December 8th, 2024.
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EMMANUEL MACRON, FRENCH PRESIDENT: We saw the advancement of this worksite that seemed impossible come to reality. And for the first time, we came here not to mark the anniversary of the fire but to mark one year before the reopening.
HOLMES: The old rooster found battered and dented in the debris of the fire, will be displayed in the new museum. The new one will watch over the final stages of Notre-Dame's restoration and hopefully the many years that follow.
Architects have said they have installed a range of fireproof features in the cathedral so this venerated church is never again reduced to ashes.
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HOLMES: And finally, it's only rock and roll, but I like it. Rolling Stones' guitarist Keith Richards is celebrating his 80th birthday today, just months after Mick Jagger did the same. The two knew each other as teenagers, and the rest of course, history. Richards created the iconic riff on their song "Satisfaction", released nearly 60 years ago. How are you feeling now, everyone?
The band is going up for their Hackney Diamonds tour next year, and it really is sponsored by AARP, which for non-Americans, is the American Association of Retired Persons.
Who would've thought, 80. Thanks for spending part of your day with me. I'm Michael Holmes. You
can follow me on Twitter X and Instagram @HolmesCNN -- I mean to say Threads.
Stay with us. CNN NEWSROOM continues with the one and only Rosemary Church after the break.
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