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Police: One Dead, One Injured In Mall Shooting In Ocala, Florida; Trump Removed From Colorado's Primary Ballot; Migrant Crossings Spike Along US Southern Border; Ohio Woman Who Miscarried Charged With Abusing A Corpse Amid Stricter Abortion Laws; Threat Level Lowered After Eruption, Residents Return. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired December 23, 2023 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:36]
JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington. Good evening.
We are following some breaking news out of Florida right now during the busy holiday shopping season. Law enforcement officials say multiple people were injured at a mall in Ocala, North Orlando. Officials report the mall is being evacuated, but add there is no longer a threat in the area and that the suspect has fled the scene.
Moments ago, police holding a news conference said one person was killed in this shooting, one person was seriously injured in the shooting, and they say, at this point the shooting appears to be a targeted act of violence.
We are closely following this story. We will bring you any new developments that come in throughout the evening, so stay with us.
But in the meantime, I just want to reiterate, police just held a news conference in Ocala, Florida, they are saying one dead, one injured as a result of a shooting at this mall, of course, this very busy holiday shopping season taking place across the country right now, a lot of people go into the malls and shopping centers, of course, hoping everybody stays safe.
But down in Ocala, Florida, they did have this violent incident. We're going to stay on top of it as things develop. We'll bring you those details to you as they come in.
Meanwhile, we are getting President Biden's first reaction to the Supreme Court's decision that it will not fast track a ruling on whether Donald Trump is immune from federal prosecution for alleged crimes he committed while in office. In a short interaction with reporters this evening, President Biden was asked if any president is immune from criminal prosecution, Biden said: "I can't think of one."
Meantime, Donald Trump is applauding the court's order on Truth Social writing: "Of course, I'm entitled to presidential immunity."
Of course, we should doubt the Supreme Court did not say he is immune. They just haven't ruled on it just yet. Following the playbook of his previous legal cases, the former president wasted no time looking to profit off of this short-term delay, for him, asking supporters for money in a fundraising e-mail yesterday.
Trump is also railing against the Colorado Supreme Court taking his name off the state's primary ballot for Trump's role in the January 6th insurrection.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They are trying to take the election away from the voters, and this is the same group, I guess, it's true. I've beaten them about 20 times. I've beat them on emoluments. They sued me.
They sue me in anything. It's a group of radical left lunatics, and they sue anytime they can, and this one is really a crazy one, and if they ever did that, it would be so bad for this country. You have no idea.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
ACOSTA: All right, let's dive right in now with CNN political commentator, Karen Finney and CNN senior political commentator, Scott Jennings.
Guys, extra points for you on this holiday weekend for coming in and doing this, being there for us. We really appreciate it.
Scott, let me start with you first. I mean, some conservatives argue Trump should be beaten at the ballot box, not in court. What do you think? Do you think it's in the country's best interest to have this adjudicated before the 2024 election? What do you think?
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, I do actually.
Number one, I think the American people deserve to know if the charges against Donald Trump are true so that they can take that into consideration when they cast their ballots. And number two, I think Donald Trump deserves a chance to clear his name. He has been accused of very, very serious crimes, both on the January 6th case, and frankly, in the documents case, and I don't know how many of these cases could be resolved by the election in November.
But I think he deserves his day in court, because if he were acquitted of these charges, obviously, that would matter to the voters as well. So, I think it's in a number of people's best interest for this to get adjudicated.
It may not be in his legal best interest, and obviously, they've been operating on a strategy of delay, but it strikes me that if he could get acquitted, it would help him and it would also let the American people know what's what when it comes to the very serious charges leveled against him.
ACOSTA: Yes, Karen, what do you think? I mean, the Supreme Court -- I mean, I guess maybe it got a little overblown in the immediate coverage that this was a big win or a big victory for Donald Trump. It's a delay. He got a little bit of a delay.
KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Right.
ACOSTA: What's your sense of it?
FINNEY: You know, I actually -- I agree with Scott on this one, because one of the things we're seeing actually in polling is that it makes a big difference to voters across the board if he is convicted and we're seeing that increasingly in polls that that is continuing -- that's actually creeping into their consideration.
[18:05:12]
So that says to me, it is in, as Scott said, if I were Trump, I would want to clear my name. Obviously, that has not been, historically his legal strategy. And at the same time, I think the voters deserve to know because we now are getting increasing information that that's an important thing for them to know and it would very much impact the outcome of their vote.
ACOSTA: And Scott, I wanted to jump ahead to what Trump has been saying out on the campaign trail after weeks of attacking immigrants and speeches on the campaign trail. Trump is now defending his remarks that sound a lot like language that was once used by Adolf Hitler. Let's listen to what Trump had to say about that.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
TRUMP: First of all, I know nothing about Hitler. I'm not a student of Hitler. I never read his works. They say that he said something about blood. He didn't say it the way I said it either by the way, it's a very different kind of a statement.
What I'm saying when I talk about people coming into our country is they are destroying our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: Yes Scott, he says he doesn't know anything about Hitler, but at the same time, he is doubling down on this rhetoric.
JENNINGS: Yes, I agree with Donald Trump. I don't think he's ever read a single history book, particularly any from that era and he has never shown himself to be a historical scholar, not that you have to be to be the president of the United States. So I actually think he's telling the truth and I don't think there's anything new, frankly, about his views on illegal immigration, and that the system is broken, and that he doesn't like what's coming across the border in terms of people and drugs, et cetera et cetera.
So I actually don't think there's a lot new here, and I really think the Democrats who are screaming about him being the next Hitler really ought to take a good hard look at what's going on in their own base right now, because there's a whole bunch of antisemitism on the left- wing progressive flank, and Joe Biden is competing for their votes, and they're worried about Adolf Hitler, maybe they ought to talk to some of their own supporters about the antisemitism that is running rampant on our college campuses and across cities all over this country.
FINNEY: Jim, can I just weigh in on that...
ACOSTA: Go ahead.
FINNEY: ... for a moment, because here's the other historical context that I think has been completely overlooked. And as a biracial person, I am personally intimately aware of the American history.
It was actually Jim Crow laws that the Nazis studied before they passed the Nuremberg laws and it is part of White supremacist doctrine. Actually, I've had it hurled at me, my personal self, that interracial marriage is diluting the blood.
And so, you know, whether it's Hitler or you know, White nationalism, it is just as un-American, I think is the main point, and it is -- you know, we are a nation of immigrants. We are a nation of different -- we are a multicultural, multigenerational, multi-ethnic democracy.
And I think the issue here is no matter whether you're Republican, Democrat, Independent, that is the American ideal. That is the direction President Biden is trying to take this country.
ACOSTA: Yes. And in Scott, I mean, you know, once Trump is aware of the fact that he's echoing Hitler, I mean, should he stop echoing Hitler?
JENNINGS: So we will have this conversation one more time as we've been having it for the last eight years. Donald Trump says something, a motive is ascribed to it that may or may not be true. I think it's not true in this case, but once he realizes that he has driven the left or the media crazy with some kind of language --
ACOSTA: You don't think he is sending signals to White supremacists?
JENNINGS: What happens? What happens? He doubles down it. He triples down on it. So, we are going to play this game until next year.
ACOSTA: I know, but Scott, you don't think he's sending signals to White supremacists? It's the holidays. I don't want to get into a shouting match, but I have to cut you off a little bit.
Don't you think he is sending signals to White nationalists and White supremacist when he says poisoning the blood of our country? I mean --
JENNINGS: No.
ACOSTA: If we were standing next to the bowl of eggnog --
JENNINGS: I don't. I think he --
ACOSTA: I would have to stop you here and say no, that sounds like what he's doing.
FINNEY: We'd also put more rum in the eggnog probably.
JENNINGS: Here is what I think. Here's what I believe. I think when Donald Trump does things like this, ultimately, it's fairly counterproductive when the full situation unfurls, and you see the way the language around it is being described.
So yes, do I think it's counterproductive when I go around making these quotes, especially after learning about the historical context of it? Of course not.
Do I think that was his motivation in the first place? No. And do I think Republicans are hot to trot about illegal immigration? Yes. And has it been the motivating issue of his entire political rise? Yes.
And so I'm not -- I feel like this has been blown out of proportion, but is it counterproductive to him? Of course it is.
FINNEY: I don't know that it's been blown out of proportion, just real quickly, but what I will say is, we know something now that we did not in 2016 and that is when he says these things, we should believe him, because he did pass a Muslim ban, because he is saying that he's going to do a mass deportation, because he did so -- you know he has had a very precarious relationship with the far right and the alt right and White nationalist.
[18:10:13]
So I think, you know, the point is let's not overreact, let's take him at his word.
ACOSTA: Hey Scott, I wanted to jump to Ron DeSantis. This super PAC backing Ron DeSantis is canceling $2.5 million worth of TV ad buys in Iowa and New Hampshire. They say they're shifting the money to the ground game. That is usually not a good sign.
I mean, I've covered politics. You've been involved in politics. Both of you have been involved -- that is usually not a good sign when you're saying, well, we're shifting money to the ground game. I mean, ground game, people can go knock on doors for free, I suppose. You need TV money.
JENNINGS: Yes, I think what I read and my understanding is other entities are handling some of the TV. This group that has been the main super PAC for him, which has run a lot of TV is now fully focused on the ground game, but there is no doubt obviously that they've run into troubled waters here as they head to Iowa.
I think he will go to Iowa. I think he'll put up a fair fight here. And the real question is, can you get within spitting distance of Donald Trump? And that's the real question. What's the number? Do you have to get within five? Do you have to get within 10 to make this campaign viable off into the future?
So I mean, that's a decision they will have to make. Obviously, it's not looking too good for him in New Hampshire right now.
ACOSTA: Yes.
JENNINGS: So really, to me, and this has been true for a while, it feels like Iowa or bust, and you do need some combination of TV and ground game, but I will say, ground game there matters a lot.
Getting people to show up for the caucus who have committed to you is a big deal, because obviously, just a few thousand votes could change the outcome.
ACOSTA: And Karen, I did want to just very quickly before we go. The podcaster, the popular podcaster, Joe Rogan apparently botched an attempted attack on President Biden during his podcast. Let's listen to this and talk about it on the other side.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSH ROGAN, PODCAST HOST, "THE JOE ROGAN EXPERIENCE": Did you hear what he said, like yesterday or a couple days ago. He is talking about the Revolutionary War. He's like one of the reasons why we lost the Revolutionary War, one of the problems the Revolutionary War was they didn't have enough airports.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just for -- for the record.
ROGAN: Is that fake?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's not fake, but he was referencing Trump saying that. Here is what Trump is saying in 2019.
ROGAN: Oh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donald Trump said something about that.
TRUMP: In June of 1775, the Continental Congress created a unified army. Our army manned the air, it rammed the ramparts. It took over the airports. It did everything it had to do.
ROGAN: Oh, okay.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
ROGAN: So he [bleep] up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FINNEY: Yes.
ACOSTA: Karen, I guess we all have little slip ups here and there.
FINNEY: Yes. You know, that's a little bit of an early Christmas gift. Thanks so much, because I love seeing Joe Rogan screw up. I just can't stand the guy.
But look, here's what I think on a serious note that it also -- in the season of peace, I will say it shows sometimes how baked in misinformation and disinformation can be. ACOSTA: Yes.
FINNEY: And this time it was on the right. It is true on the left at times as well, and that -- you know, that segment ends with them saying like, oh, media has got to really check their work.
I think we all knew it. Obviously, they didn't. But I think it's a good reminder to all of us that, you know, let's take a pause before we say certain things and make sure we've got all the facts, especially with this upcoming election where we know there's going to be just a lot of, you know, information, disinformation, and insults flying all over the place.
ACOSTA: Yes, perhaps we all need a long winter's nap. That might be the moral of the story.
FINNEY: There you go.
ACOSTA: All right, Scott and Karen, Happy Holidays. Thanks so much appreciate it.
FINNEY: Happy Holidays.
JENNINGS: Merry Christmas.
ACOSTA: Merry Christmas.
Still ahead, some US officials warning the southern border is near a breaking point with thousands of migrants waiting to be processed. We're live with more on the situation. That's next. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:18:11]
ACOSTA: A surge of migrants at the US southern border with Mexico as federal, state, and local officials struggling to cope. Federal authorities reported a seven-day average of about 6,800 migrant encounters on November 28th. That's jumped roughly 40 percent to 9,600 encounters a day in December.
CNN's Rafael Romo is in Eagle Pass, Texas, one of the holding areas where these migrants are waiting to be processed.
Rafael, the numbers are really dramatic. They are lower than last time last year at this time. What more can you tell us?
RAFAEL ROMO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, slightly lower, Jim, but the reality is that that is a little consolation for people who live here and also for law enforcement who have the challenge of trying to deal with the influx of migrants.
And let me tell you, this detention area, officials were able to clear it in the last hour. They managed to process the last group that there was here, but I would not be surprised if it fills up again. We have seen group after group of migrants get here and Jim, just yesterday, Customs and Border enforcement was sending the message to would-be asylum seekers saying that under Title 8, individuals and families who arrived without authorization, meaning papers will be subject to removal and non-citizens can be returned to their country of origin.
They have been warning people for a long time now: Do not put your life at risk by taking the dangerous journey only to be sent back. But the message, Jim is not getting to the hundreds upon hundreds of people we have seen here in Eagle Pass who traveled by land from countries like Cuba, Haiti, Nicaragua, and Venezuela.
Once they surrender to the Border Patrol, either at a port of entry or at some point along the border, they are brought to this detention area where they wait to be processed.
[18:20:08]
How many people have arrived in recent months? That number was just shy of a quarter of a million during the month of November, according to officials.
To put it in perspective, Jim, that's roughly the population of a city like Laredo here in Texas, and that was just in one month.
Congressman Tony Gonzales, a Republican who represents two-thirds of the Texas border from El Paso to Eagle Pass where we are says the situation here at the border is at a breaking point.
And that's the thing, Jim, even those on the other side of the immigration issue, the ones who ask for a more humane treatment for immigrants agree with conservatives on that point, the situation here both say is unsustainable.
And finally, Jim, across the border, Mexican President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador said he will host both US Secretary of State Antony Blinken and Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas on Wednesday in Mexico City to discuss joint measures so that both countries can address this crisis together -- Jim.
ACOSTA: Well, and Rafael, I'm sure Mexican officials want to tighten things up as well, because from what you were saying a few moments ago, is that still the case that we're seeing migrants showing up at the border in places like Eagle Pass, coming from all over this hemisphere, not just Mexico and Central America, as you were saying earlier, Cuba and, and so on.
So it sounds as though word has gotten out to a lot of different places for migrants to come to the border.
ROMO: Yes, Jim. And what we've seen in the past is that the Mexican government has gone from trying to stop the flow of immigrants at one point during the Trump presidency, and they were somewhat successful in trying to do so, but then they moved in the other direction, allowing migrants to go through. It is a very thorny issue in Mexico as well, with many people saying that immigrants should be just allowed to travel freely through Mexico, given that Mexico itself is an origin country.
And so it's been very difficult for Mexico as well. They seem to not have enough resources, especially when you consider the situation that Mexico is going through at its southern border with Guatemala as well. So a very complicated issue for Mexico as well -- Jim.
ACOSTA: All right, Rafael Romo, thank you very much. We appreciate it. Thanks for all your reporting.
And we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:26:49]
ACOSTA: As the war between Israel and Hamas rages on, the humanitarian crisis inside Gaza is growing more dire by the minute.
The UN says the entire population of Gaza is facing acute hunger and warns a full scale famine is not far off. UNICEF says more than 300,000 children are at high risk for severe malnutrition and preventable death.
The Palestinian Red Crescent Society says nearly 108 trucks entered Gaza today carrying food, water, and medical supplies. To put that into perspective, on average, about 500 trucks entered Gaza each day before the war began back in October.
And joining us now to talk about this is Joe English. He's the emergency communications specialist for UNICEF.
Joe, thank you very much for being with us. What are you hearing from your team on the ground as to how dire things are becoming there.
JOE ENGLISH, EMERGENCY COMMUNICATIONS SPECIALIST FOR UNICEF: Great to be with you, Jim.
As you say, you know, things are deteriorating by the minute. You know, I mean, for children and families who are affected by this crisis, it has now been three weeks since the ceasefire and the threats are almost too many to list.
You know, when I think about the things that UNICEF works on, we try and provide children with safe drinking water. There is almost no safe drinking water in Gaza.
We try and provide children with critical nutrition supplies, there is almost no food for children and families in Gaza. We try and provide them with protection, you know, and we know that the numbers of children who have been killed and injured in this conflict is staggering beyond belief.
And then we try and provide them with some kind of respite, some kind of hope through psychosocial support or education. Clearly, that is not happening right now, and so what children and families need is a ceasefire, because the situation seems so desperate that it is almost unimaginable, but things can get worse. That is what we all need to focus on, the situation can get worse, and it will get worse if the fighting continues.
ACOSTA: Yes, Joe, I mean, if the term famine is entering the conversation, that is critical, and we can talk a lot about hunger, but what about the need for more clean drinking water.
ENGLISH: And all of these play into each other. Children who are malnourished or even more vulnerable to waterborne diseases, something like cholera could take hold and could potentially take as many lives as the fighting, you know.
And so, it is -- when we talk about the amount of aid going in, and we talk about the Security Council resolution yesterday. You know, it is welcome that we all finally are in agreement that more aid needs to get in, but the reality is, is for that aid to be able to reach children and families who need it, there has to be a pause in the fighting.
We've lost more than 130 UN colleagues in this war and you can just imagine trying to provide this kind of support. You know, for many of us this is -- it's a job which we live day in day out when we are trying to do our best, to reach children and families who need us, but when bombs are falling, it is impossible.
ACOSTA: And 93 aid trucks, roughly 93 aid trucks entered Gaza today. How far does that amount of aid go? I mean, I remember when we were talking about the limited number of trucks going into the Rafah Crossing when that was just getting going. It doesn't sound like there hasn't been a real significant increase in the amount of aid going in.
ENGLISH: Yesterday, we saw positive words. We need those words turn into action. You know, this is one bit of the aid that was going in before the conflict, and we know that the needs are far, far, far greater, you know?
[18:30:19]
But ultimately, humanitarian aid will only ever be a sticking plaster. There's this acronym that's been going around, wounded child, no surviving family.
And this is a time of year when we are all gathering with friends, families, ones we love and these children who this acronym applies to no mother, no father, no aunt, no uncle, no siblings, no grandparents. It is taking out a generation upon generation and ultimately children in Gaza, children in the West Bank, children in Israel, for them to have a peaceful and hopeful future, we need to see an end to the fighting.
ACOSTA: And children, Joe, are really bearing the brunt of this, aren't they? ENGLISH: They really are. I mean, I've worked in conflicts around the world. I've seen what war and violence does. But I also know that by providing children with safety, that is the first step. When you go through these kind of traumatic events, the first step is to allow a release, allow a child to feel safe and we're ultimately talking about more than 75 days of children and parents being emotionally, mentally, physically exhausted.
Children - we see children now who are too hungry, too scared and just too exhausted to even cry. It is a deathly, deathly silence we are seeing in many of these camps, in many of these hospitals because families, ultimately many parents tell us that they are - they are resigned to death and we need to provide a level of hope and that comes first and foremost with an end to the fighting.
ACOSTA: All right. Joe English with UNICEF, thank you very much for your time this evening. We appreciate it.
ENGLISH: Thanks so much, Jim.
ACOSTA: In the meantime, hundreds died on October 7th in the Hamas attack on the Nova music festival. But thanks to the kindness and bravery of a stranger, dozens did survive. One of those, an American woman, has returned to meet the man who saved her life and CNN's Will Ripley has that story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Looking at that cloud of smoke, what does that trigger for you?
NATALIE SANANDAJI, NOVA FESTIVAL SURVIVOR: So seeing the smoke, it definitely reminds me of those noises that bring me back to that day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RIPLEY (voice over): In southern Israel, you don't need a map to know you're near Gaza.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RIPLEY: Why are you here? What do you want to go back?
SANANDAJI: Sorry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RIPLEY (voice over): That loud boom, outgoing artillery near our car, rattling native New Yorker, Natalie Sanandaji.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RIPLEY: Tell me what that made you feel like just now.
SANANDAJI: Like I'm scared that, like, we're being shot at. I'm fine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RIPLEY (voice over): The last time she was on this road, Natalie was running for her life. Just after sunrise on Saturday, October 7th, rocket interceptions seen from the dance floor at the Nova music festival. Hamas militants killed more than 350 people, mostly young, mostly Jewish, mostly unarmed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANANDAJI: I feel so lucky that I made it out, that I got out alive. I feel like it's my duty to be that voice for all those who weren't as lucky as me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RIPLEY (voice over): That sense of duty is why she's returning to Israel for the first time since the attacks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANANDAJI: Just seeing all these faces and knowing people that loved these faces.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RIPLEY (voice over): Faces of friends who never made it home.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANANDAJI: Oh, my god. She's someone I recognize. It's so crazy. And I was dancing right next to them, you know? So hard to see how many of them there are.
RIPLEY (on camera): And it could have been you?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RIPLEY (voice over): The music festival campsite, now a place where families come to grave.
Rockets in the sky, gunshots on the ground. All she could do was run. Many took cover in bathrooms, bomb shelters, ditches. Most of them ended up dead.
Four hours of running, exhausted, dehydrated.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANANDAJI: I never thought that ...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RIPLEY (voice over): Natalie collapsed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANANDAJI: ... I would really just sit down and accept my fate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RIPLEY (voice over): Too tired to run as a truck came closer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANANDAJI: We had nowhere to run to. Like, where are we going to get up and run to? Like, if this is a terrorist coming to kill us, like, that's it. Kind of like that one.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RIPLEY (voice over): The man behind the wheel, not a terrorist, from at nearby village. Natalie never got his name. She only tracked him down a few days ago. It's why she's come back, to thank him.
They're about to meet for the first time since that day.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANANDAJI: (Inaudible) ...
MOSHE SATI, NOVA FESTIVAL RESCUER: (Inaudible) ...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RIPLEY (voice over): The man fighting back tears, Moshe Sati, an Israeli father of four who left home and drove directly into danger, not once or twice, more than 10 trips to and from the music festival site.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SATI (through translator): Stop, this is too hard for me.
SANANDAJI (through translator): It's very nice to meet you.
SATI (through translator): Likewise. I said we are in it together. Come inside.
[18:35:08]
RIPLEY (on camera): You live so close to this, but were you prepared fully for what you saw on October 7th?
SATI (through translator): Things like this you can't forget. I'll never forget what I saw. It's very, very tough.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RIPLEY (voice over): Haunted by the horrors he saw, heartened by the lives he saved.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANANDAJI: So many people were saved in this truck.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RIPLEY (voice over): Natalie, one of well over 100 people he packed into his pickup and drove to safety.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANANDAJI: Like, this truck saved so many lives. And like, it just looks like an average truck. Like, I stood right there in that corner. If it wasn't for him, I truly don't think I would have been here today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RIPLEY (voice over): One bright chapter on a very dark day.
RIPLEY (on camera): Natalie told us one reason she's sharing her story is she doesn't want people to forget that there is a human to all of this. These young people who were killed on October 7th have been politicized and Natalie herself has been a target of pretty intense online hate as a result of sharing her story. She wants people to remember that civilians on both sides are dying and they have families, they have people who love them and she says they need to be remembered.
Will Ripley, CNN, Tel Aviv.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ACOSTA: Thanks very much to Will Ripley for that report. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:40:49]
ACOSTA: An Ohio woman who had a miscarriage after nearly 22 weeks of pregnancy is now facing criminal charges. Her case highlights how prosecutors can charge a woman who has lost her pregnancy, whether by abortion or even miscarriage.
CNN's Whitney Wild has the details.
We want to warn you, some of what you're about to hear is disturbing.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice over): After the death of her 22-week-old fetus, Brittany Watts felt "distraught, heartbroken, empty," according to texts she sent to local television station WJW.
A coroner's report and 911 call obtained by CNN detailed the days before and after the miscarriage that led to her arrest and felony charge.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I had a mother who had a delivery at home and came in without the baby.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WILD (voice over): In mid-September, Watts visited St. Joseph Hospital multiple times and was told her water broke and her fetus would not survive. Medical staff recommended Watts be induced into labor, the report says. At first, she declined medical care, but later returned to the hospital intending to give birth.
According to a Washington Post interview with Watts' attorney, Watts waited eight hours to give birth as doctors and officials considered whether inducing her would violate Ohio's abortion laws. Watts went home. Two days later, she miscarried into a toilet.
Watts returned to the hospital a third time after her miscarriage, where hospital staff called police.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is a very early pregnancy, so if it was born alive, I am certain it is not now alive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WILD (voice over): Investigators found the fetus still stuck in the toilet at Watts' home. Watts now faces a felony charge for abuse of a corpse. The coroner's report states "the fetus died in utero." In a recent hearing, a prosecutor described the case like this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEWIS GUARNIERI, WARREN ASSISTANT PROSECUTOR: The issue isn't how the child died, when the child died, it's the fact that the baby was put into a toilet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WILD (voice over): Watts' attorney told CNN in a statement: "There is no law in Ohio that requires a mother suffering a miscarriage to bury or cremate those remains. Women miscarry into toilets every day."
Bioethicist Katie Watson called the criminal charge absurd.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KATIE WATSON, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR, NORTHWESTERN MEDICINE: I think this is an example of a woman violating feelings rules. She didn't perform sadness and she didn't perform respect in a way that the prosecutors could recognize. And so they chose to punish her with the prosecution.
(END VIDEO CLIP) WILD (voice over): Watts' case has set off heated debate over criminalizing pregnancy outcomes, including miscarriages.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WATSON: This is about misunderstanding miscarriage and how it works. It's about misunderstanding the psychological and psychiatric reactions that some people have during and after a miscarriage.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WILD (voice over): Abortion rights group, Ohio Physicians for Reproductive Rights is urging prosecutors to drop the case. The group's co-founder, Dr. Marcela Azevedo, told CNN the risk to other women facing non-viable pregnancies is enormous.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. MARCELA AZEVEDO, CO-FOUNDER, OHIO PHYSICIANS FOR REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS: The criminalization of her pregnancy outcomes further stigmatizes both abortion and pregnancy, but it certainly particularly affects communities that are black and brown. And it creates a bigger discrepancy and it doesn't allow them to feel safe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WILD (on camera): CNN has reached out to the prosecutors in this case. They did release a lengthy statement, but it did not comment on the substantive facts of the Brittany Watts case. They more or less outlined what had happened in court up to this point and then noted that the case is with the grand jury and they were unable to comment beyond that.
We also reached out to the hospital in this case, St. Joseph Hospital, which declined to comment, citing patient privacy. But they did stress that safety and security of their patients is their highest concern.
Whitney Wild, CNN, Chicago.
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[18:49:00]
ACOSTA: Scientists in Iceland say a volcanic eruption that started earlier this week has stopped, though there are still concerns about pressure building back up again. The break has allowed residents to start returning home.
Let's discuss now with Jess Phoenix. She's a volcanologist and a geologist and Executive Director and Co-Founder of Blueprint Earth. In other words, she's a lot smarter than me and knows a lot about volcanoes.
But welcome, Jess, back to the program. It's been a while since we had you on last, but it's good to talk to you again.
What did you think of this Icelandic volcanic eruption? The video was dazzling. I mean, it was spectacular. It looked like we're witnessing the dawn of time. I mean, it was just amazing to look at. What did you learn from it and is this area still dangerous? They're letting people back into the area, which I'm not sure that's a good idea, but what do you think?
JESS PHOENIX, VOLCANOLOGIST: Well, you've got to let people be the priority in any kind of work around volcanoes.
[18:50:00]
So we always, as volcanologists, have to balance our enthusiasm for the opportunity to learn and to understand more about how the planet functions with the very real need of people who live nearby to get into their houses, to go to school, to earn money. So it's always a balance.
And this particular eruption was - it - everything was done extremely well by the authorities in Iceland and by the residents of Grindavik. They were able to warn people to get them evacuated to safety, so when the eruption was occurring, there was really nothing in the way of allowing the officials to do their jobs.
And as far as what we can expect, well, the planet's always changing. I mean, we live in a really dynamic place. And right now, we've got this pause, this stop in the current eruption. But it doesn't mean that the magma reservoir that is feeding, it is empty by no means. In fact, it's very likely that this magma will refill. The pressure will build up again and then we might see a period of eruption again, whether that's in weeks, months or years. It's going to happen again at some point, so it's sort of a waiting game.
ACOSTA: Well, and that's what I was wondering, because, I mean, that lava field was so extensive and it was beautiful and spectacular to look at. But I'm also wondering, is it a good idea for folks to be that close to it? The residents in that nearby town or is there enough of a warning system? It sounds like what you're saying the folks in Iceland handled this pretty well, so perhaps they'll do that the next time around as well.
PHOENIX: So, look, I mean, Iceland is basically an island that's completely made by volcanoes, same way Hawaii is, all those islands. So the people who live there are intimately acquainted with what volcanoes can do. And while living on a volcano is never safe, especially if it's got potential to erupt, which this one does, what you can do is use the scientific tools that we have.
So seismographs, those actually record - seismometers record the earthquakes and they put out seismographs, which are those squiggly lines we see in disaster films.
ACOSTA: Right.
PHOENIX: Understanding where the earthquakes are happening, how deep they are, how shallow they are, how big they are, that tells us where the magma is moving underground. So we can use that as well as whether the ground is pushing up, so inflating or deflating, and that also shows what magma is doing and we use satellites to monitor that.
So in this instance, we have a few different tools to sort of allow us to - we can't predict eruptions still. I really wish we could, but this will allow us to say it's likely that we're going to see another period of eruptive activity. And - but the worst part is the people who live there, yes, they understand the risks and they know that this is sort of par for the course when you live on a volcano. They also really do need to get on with their lives.
So I think ...
ACOSTA: Yes.
PHOENIX: ... having them go back in with the understanding that they may have to leave again in a hurry, I think that's the best course of action right now.
ACOSTA: And we're looking at these pictures right now, and perhaps I'm looking at something of an optical illusion here, but the folks who are standing on the rim of this lava that's bursting into the air, it looks like they're close enough to roast marshmallows. And I'm just wondering, I mean, do you ever get that close to it? That seems like a bad idea.
PHOENIX: Yes, volcanologists do. People who are not volcanologists should not do that. This is like the biggest don't try this at home warning I can give you.
ACOSTA: Right.
PHOENIX: And we do because we need to get samples of fresh lava. So we will go up - I've sampled lava at the end of a rock hammer. So I've been a foot and a half from an active lava flow that's 2,000 degrees Fahrenheit. And it is - there's nothing like it on planet earth. I mean, you can feel your eyes dehydrating and when you pull the lava away from the main flow with the handle or with the pick end of the hammer, it's like - I call it the taffy from hell, because it's still very molten. It really does pull apart.
And it's extremely dangerous, especially eruptions like this one, where we saw a lot of spatter activity. So volcanoes can produce something we call lava bombs and those are just what they sound like. It's molten chunk of rock that flies through the air and the fastest they can go is just under 200 miles an hour. So if you get hit with one of those, goodbye.
ACOSTA: You're not going to make it.
PHOENIX: So it's really, really dangerous and - yes, don't do it unless you're doing it for science. And that is the reason volcanologists do what we do. Yes. It's cool and fascinating. You can never be a hundred percent safe. So again, don't try this at home. ACOSTA: Yes. That's a great warning because I saw the video of those folks doing that. And I'm like, guys, it's not hot fudge that you were seeing burst into the air, as amazing as it looks.
[18:55:01]
Well, Jess Phoenix, thanks so much. We'll talk to you on the next volcano. I really appreciate your time.
PHOENIX: Always happy to be here, Jim.
ACOSTA: All right. Thank you so much.
All right. In the meantime, on a special STATE OF THE UNION, look back at climate change this year and see what to expect in the years ahead. Former vice president Al Gore and billionaire investor, Ray Dalio, joined Jake Tapper with how we can all make a difference. That's at STATE OF THE UNION: A Climate Warning, airs tomorrow morning at nine.
Still ahead, a legal battle in college football, Florida State is suing the Atlantic Coast Conference. We'll dig into why the school wants out. It might have something to do with that college football playoff, I think. And we'll talk about that in a few moments.
You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.
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