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Trump Claims His Alleged Efforts To Overturn 2020 Election Results Was Within Official Responsibilities As President; Violence Breaks Out Near Rafah Crossing Amid Relief Aid Turmoil; Innocence Project Works To Overturn Wrongful Convictions. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired December 24, 2023 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:52]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington.

We begin this hour with Donald Trump arguing that lobbying election officials to overturn the 2020 election was within his official responsibilities as president. That argument was part of a brief filed last night in which attorneys for the former president asked an appeals court to dismiss his criminal election subversion case one day after the Supreme Court refused to decide for now whether he is protected from prosecution.

In the filing, Trump's attorneys argued that: "President Trump has absolute immunity. The judicial branch cannot sit in judgment over a president's official acts." The legal wrangling could push a verdict into the heat of the 2024 campaign or even after the election, in which case if Trump is re-elected, he is almost certain to try to pardon himself.

It's for that reason that POLITICO notes: "Trump's legal argument appears to be about as much about prevailing in the appeals court as it is about a bid to slow down the case against him." Let's discuss that and more now with Democratic strategist and former senior adviser to Bernie Sanders 2020 presidential campaign Chuck Rocha and Republican strategist, Shermichael Singleton.

Guys extra points for you for being with us on Christmas Eve. Really appreciate it. Thanks so much.

Shermichael, let me start with you. Where are you, after all of this legal wrangling that has been going on with Donald Trump? Here we are. We're almost into the 2024. election calendar year and he has all of these cases hanging over many and his lawyers are trying to argue that he has absolute immunity. Absolute immunity.

SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Yes.

ACOSTA: What do you think about all this?

SINGLETON: Yes, I mean, look, it's a tricky argument, Jim. And on one hand, I understand the argument that you just -- you don't want every president that is elected into office potentially facing civil lawsuits or legal lawsuits based on some of the decisions that he or she makes while in office.

However, I think the idea that any person elected or not elected is above the law is a stretch too far for most people, and I think it's probably a stretch too far legally speaking. And so I think from that regard, Donald Trump and his attorneys are in a really tricky situation, but I understand wanting to delay this, because he certainly doesn't want to have to deal with going back and forth to court in the middle of a presidential cycle.

ACOSTA: And, Chuck, what's your preference? And by the way, props to the backdrop there, very well done. What's your sense on all of this? I mean, if you had your druthers, would you prefer that none of this -- there wasn't any of this legal stuff hanging over Donald Trump, and you could just have Joe Biden go up against Donald Trump on the issues? Or, I mean, is this something that is beneficial to the president, his re-election campaign? Beneficial to Democrats when it comes election time?

CHUCK ROCHA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I think, it is beneficial to Democrats and, you know, hat tip to all the families out there that are getting together for Christmas and not wanting to talk about politics around the dinner table. Here we go.

ACOSTA: Yes.

ROCHA: And as you mentioned, it's a double-edged sword.

As a Democrat, I want to have every example I can to show that he is unfit for office because people will have to make a choice when they walk into the ballot box, and they will be Democrat Joe Biden or Republican Donald Trump, and they will have to make a decision, and we as Democrats, we'll use the court case, we'll use January 6, we'll use all of the things that we want to tell voters that he's not capable of being President while the Republicans will do the same thing about Joe Biden.

It just how politics is played every day, and the more ammunition you get are all based off of lots of what's going on in the court system presently.

ACOSTA: And Shermichael, let's jump to some non-Trump news. There is sort of a pre-mortem, I guess it is being called about Ron DeSantis' campaign in "The New York Times" today.

They write that one of his closest advisors has privately said the campaign has entered something of a hospice phase telling multiple people, they're now at the point where they need to "make the patient comfortable."

What's your -- I mean just the other day, we got the news that a super PAC is going to shift their funds away from TV ads to the ground campaign. That is never a good sign.

[15:05:10]

It just seems to be a drip, drip, drip of bad indicators for Ron DeSantis' campaign?

SINGLETON: Yes, I mean, look, Jim, I've come to the conclusion that the Florida governor's campaign was over back in early August when they laid off I believe, a third of their staff. They spent a significant amount of money, I believe they only had less than $10 million cash on hand, and this is a guy who's number two.

Chuck has worked on presidential campaigns and campaigns across this country, as much as I have and he knows as well as I do that anytime a presidential candidate is having major advisers leave, they just lost the director of the political PAC. They're losing other staffers to other campaigns.

You're seeing major donors now backing Nikki Haley as they see her as the now viable alternative. It is clear that the campaign is over.

And so at this point in time, my advice would be to the candidate, do you want to attempt to make it into January or February and do poorly when folks go to vote? Or do we do the right thing? So you know what? I can't quite get across the finish line. I'm going to go ahead and suspend my campaign now and then look to 2028. I think they should do the latter of the two.

ACOSTA: Yes. Chuck, what's your sense of it? I mean, not to turn you into a gambling man here, but do you think Ron DeSantis pulls the plug on this before the Iowa caucuses?

ROCHA: No, I think he will until after the Iowa caucuses, but I think that everybody needs to understand that every state is a little bit different. Now, we're only going to run a presidential race in six states.

You know, I'm down here with my family in Florida. And I was out on the boat yesterday with my brother-in-law where I should say publicly that my sister caught more fish than I did, and I saw a boat that had 15 Donald Trump flags on it.

ACOSTA: Yes.

ROCHA: So like every state is a little bit different, but nationally, he has realized that the rest of the country is not Florida, and so this is a wake-up call that it may be time for Ron DeSantis later on. But right now, he has to figure out how much he can get out of the Republican Party to your point and Shermichael's point of when you get out, but you don't want to get out so late there is nothing left to give or nothing left to gain.

SINGLETON: That's right.

ACOSTA: Right. I mean, and kudos to Chuck for not inflating the size of the fish that you caught. I was expecting a fish tale there but maybe next time.

But I mean, Shermichael, I mean, to Chuck's point, though, you know, I'm a little curious as to whether or not Ron DeSantis does more lasting damage to himself if he waits until after the Iowa caucuses, and it just doesn't work out for him in Iowa, then he kind of limps into the 2028 conversation, whereas if he bails now, gets behind Trump, isn't that better for him in the long run?

SINGLETON: Yes, it is far better.

ACOSTA: I mean, I know the non-Trump candidates are saying no, no, no, you should get behind Nikki Haley. But I could see a scenario where he gets behind Ron DeSantis -- behind Donald Trump.

SINGLETON: Donald Trump, you know, it's way better, Jim. And that's the point that I'm trying to make. If you go into the Iowa caucuses, you go into New Hampshire, South Carolina, and you perform poorly, donors, the most talented individuals in this political space that you would need to run a campaign to run some of the mega PACs, super PACs to support your candidacy, they are going to go to other candidates, or they're going to go to other campaigns, other teams in terms of 2028.

You think about individuals who ran in 2016 against Donald Trump, whether it was Ted Cruz and others; Marco Rubio, very talented individuals, but they performed poorly.

The donors weren't willing to put dollars behind them if they were to attempt to run now, which is why most of them did not. Most people look at Trump and say that he is the only viable option in terms of winning the nomination, whether he can win the presidency is another conversation.

So again, if I'm advising the candidate, that being DeSantis, in this case, I'm looking ahead to 2028. I'm assessing the country right now looking at potential opponents that may ultimately jump.

You look at Virginia governor, he is one possibility. Kristi Noem, that's another possibility, and I am saying, how do we fare against those candidates several years from now, versus going into this thing next year, performing poorly, losing all of our donors, and also losing very, very talented individuals that we would need to build up this operation?

ACOSTA: Yes. Yes. Because in the beginning, Ron DeSantis had -- I mean, almost the cream of the crop in Republican circles, in terms of people he had on his campaign and at his PAC and so on, and he has hemorrhaged a lot of those folks.

Chuck, CNN has obtained a Biden campaign memo that shows how the president plans to make the threat Trump poses to democracy a central focus of his campaign as he did back in 2020. Is that the right approach, do you think?

ROCHA: I think, it is one of the approaches he has to look at. He has to figure out a way to have sharp contrast with Donald Trump. Most of the country, unlike when I started running campaigns 30 years ago in Texas, you had a lot of folks that were in the middle.

[15:10:02] Right now, you've got everybody who is running either to the right or everybody that is running to the left and just a little sliver in the middle and you'd have to be really, really direct about what the true differences are in the candidates, because you have folks out there when I talk to them, sure, they say Joe Biden is old. But when I talk to Republicans and their groups, they say, sure, Donald Trump is crazy.

So when you have old against crazy, sometimes you have to figure out a real way to say look, but least I'm for democracy, and I know where they're going with this and I do think it's a good strategy.

ACOSTA: And Shermichael, Republican Senator Lindsey Graham, I did want to give some of this sound because I thought it was interesting. He's out saying Trump is setting himself up for failure next year if he is the GOP nominee. Let's listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): I'm worried about 2024. If President Trump puts a vision out improving security and prosperity for Americans, he will win. If he looks back, I think he will lose.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Yes, I mean, Shermichael, I mean, I think isn't that kind of going against -- I mean, isn't Lindsey Graham sounding like he's hoping that Donald Trump will go against his DNA to be talking about the future and not about the past?

I mean --

SINGLETON: I mean, but he is right.

ACOSTA: I guess, Christmas, it is the time of miracles. It's Christmas, but I mean stretching things.

SINGLETON: I mean, anything is possible on Christmas Eve, Jim.

ACOSTA: Yes.

SINGLETON: I mean, the Senate is right. Georgia Governor Brian Kemp has also stated this multiple times throughout the duration of this year. If the Republican nominee is talking about the past, that person won't win Georgia, a critical state. There is a chance that that individual won't win other crucial states.

To Chuck's point, this election is going to be one on the margins as it was in 2016, as it was in 2020, so that slither of individuals in the middle, you also have about, let's say, 20 percent of Republicans who do care about democracy, so many of those individuals voted for Biden in 2020. I would imagine that many of them more than likely will also vote for him in 2024 if Trump is indeed the nominee.

We also know that the White House announced I believe, a week ago that the vice president is going to traverse the country next year talking about reproductive rights.

If you look at every down ballot race, recently, Democrats have destroyed Republicans even in my home state of Virginia, just a few weeks ago, we saw how well Democrats performed.

ACOSTA: Oh, yes.

SINGLETON: And so when you look at all of those variables, Jim, I certainly wish things look differently. I love my buddy, Chuck. But I wish the reality was different for Republicans.

But as a strategist, as a data guy, the data indicates that the Republican nominee will have an uphill battle if they are talking about the past, if they're dealing with issues pertaining to reproductive rights. If they're talking about all of these criminal allegations that have been filed, this just does not look like the ideal scenario or environment for Republican victory.

I certainly would like for that to be the case. But again, I don't think that's the miracle that many Republicans will get.

ACOSTA: All right, Chuck and Shermichael, happy holidays, guys. Really appreciate it. Nice conversation today. Thanks so much.

SINGLETON: Happy Holidays, Jim.

ROCHA: Same to you, Jim.

ACOSTA: All right, good to see you.

All right, coming up, growing fears of a widening conflict in the Middle East as the US reports Iranian strikes on commercial ships.

And new video showing turmoil near the Rafah Border Crossing in Gaza where Starvation is now widespread, gunfire erupts as civilians carry away badly needed relief aid. We'll tell you what we have in terms of the latest information on that in just a few moments. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:17:38]

ACOSTA: Now to the growing humanitarian crisis in Gaza. We're seeing violence breakout at the Rafah Crossing near the Gaza Egyptian border.

Video obtained by CNN shows crowds running as gunfire rings out in the streets. This, as desperately needed supplies like food and water grow more scarce by the day.

The United Nations is warning this week that roughly a quarter of Gaza's population, some half million people are now starving.

Let's go to CNN's Will Ripley live in Tel Aviv with more on all of this. Will, this video is hard to look at, but what can you tell us about it? I know there's not a whole lot of information, but it gets to the desperation that we're seeing out there?

WILL RIPLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, this location in southern Gaza, the Rafah Crossing is essentially one of the only lifelines for the 2.2 million people in Gaza because it is where you can bring in supplies from Egypt. There is always a long line of trucks waiting to cross, but they don't always get through.

Today, we know that there were dozens of trucks that did get through, but their efforts to distribute aid in Gaza were hampered by these large, desperate crowds. You're talking about hundreds of people, at least that's what we can ascertain from this footage, jumping on the trucks, trying to break in and grab whatever items they could.

It seemed as if it was really a mad dash and at some point, gunfire erupts. So adding to the chaos and the confusion is the danger of bullets whizzing through the air. We don't know who was firing the shots. We don't know how it started or necessarily why, but in a chaotic situation like that, when people are so hungry, and so desperate, and so determined to try to get what they can in many cases just to support themselves and their families, but there could also be potentially looting.

We saw that there were tires that were set on fire, and then you had the gunshots ring out as well. Listen to what it sounded like at the height of all of this.

[VIDEO CLIP PLAYS]

[15:20:00]

RIPLEY: It is Christmas Eve, Jim.

These people have lived through week after week of airstrikes. There's been ground combat that's now expanding. The IDF, the Israeli military moving into Central and Southern Gaza, their operations. There have been airstrikes throughout all of these areas.

And now on top of that, a brawl around the relief trucks and gunfire. People are living an absolute hellish nightmare right now in Gaza, and this video is all you really need to look at to just get a little bit of a glimpse of what it's like for them and this is why, the call for aid, the call for help, the call to do whatever the world can to improve the situation for more than two million people living through this is even more urgent on this Christmas Eve than it's ever been.

ACOSTA: Yes, yes, Will, that -- I mean, that video right there just goes to the horror of what life is like right now in that part of the world, and we just don't know.

The gunfire is emanating in that video. Is that something we can ascertain from looking at it? We just don't know.

RIPLEY: Yes. ACOSTA: Okay.

RIPLEY: It is. It's in the video, but we don't know where the shots are being fired from. You don't see -- there are no reports of anybody injured, that we know of. But again, information can be slow going. And a lot of times people have to climb up on a roof just to get an internet signal to feedback video like this.

Our journalists on the ground in Gaza work so hard to record moments and sometimes, it can take hours and hours and hours just to get the information back to us, to get a phone signal, to get the footage back.

And so we hope to learn more about what exactly happened today in southern Gaza at the Rafah Crossing, but you can see clearly in the pictures, it was a situation of people who are driven to the edge of desperation.

ACOSTA: Yes.

RIPLEY: They are so desperate and so determined to try to get what they can, grabbing whatever they can, running for it, and then having to essentially hear gunfire, wonder if they're going to have to dodge bullets after airstrikes and everything else that they've gone through.

And by the way, most of these people are on the verge of starvation, extremely hungry, because there is so little food and water even drinking water available in Gaza right now.

ACOSTA: Yes, no, we had a spokesperson for UNICEF on yesterday talking about the possibility of all out famine in Gaza and that just gets to the desperation of the situation.

And Will, we're learning the wife of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu wrote a letter to the Pope, asking for help. What did she say?

RIPLEY: Sara Netanyahu, not just writing to the Pope, but to the wives of more than 30 world leaders, hoping that diplomacy can bring about the return of the remaining more than 100 Israeli hostages believed to be alive in Gaza, some of them are women, some of them are elderly, some of them are in desperate need of medical care.

And it speaks really to the impasse that Israel is having with Hamas in terms of negotiations over the hostage exchange, a prisoner swap between potentially high level militants here in Israel for the remaining Israeli hostages, and some sort of a pause in the fighting, whether it be a week, which is what was Israel's first offer or longer.

Hamas in no rush to strike a deal with Israel. They flat out rejected Israel's first offer. Their credibility since October 7th has actually grown, Jim, in the eyes of other extremist organizations that might be willing to send them weapons, send them money. And so they are not in any rush to hand over these hostages, even though they've said publicly time is running out for them, but Israel really is and that is why the wife of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu asking the Pope to intervene on this Christmas, hoping that he can use his influence to do something for these people, these Israelis that are still living in Gaza right in the middle of that hell along with everybody else there.

ACOSTA: All right, Will, thank you very much. I want to go to CNN's Kevin Liptak over at the White House, monitoring what the White House is saying, what the Biden administration is saying in response to the Pentagon now saying that an Iranian drone attack occurred on a chemical tanker in the Indian Ocean. Obviously, tension ratcheting up in that part of the world. What can you tell us?

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes, and officials say there weren't any casualties on board and that there were no American assets in the vicinity, but it is underscoring this fear among administration officials that this conflict could widen and could escalate.

And I think this incident is notable for a couple of reasons, Jim. One, the US is pinning blame directly on Iran for this incident. Previously, they had been focused on the Iranian-backed group in Yemen, the Houthis. This is Iran's direct responsibility according to the United States.

And secondly, this is not occurring in the Red Sea. It's occurring far from it in the Indian Ocean, so it is outside of the vicinity that US officials had been so focused on for the last several weeks or so. That's not to say that things have calmed down in the Red Sea either.

Yesterday, there were separate incidents in that area involving a US warship, involving commercial and merchant vessels all being targeted by Houthi missiles and drones.

[15:25:10]

So certainly, that is not lessening either the tensions there, so this is all sort of bubbling up in the region and what the US has done is tried to organize this global coalition of maritime countries to try and beef up security in the Red Sea. This is at the end of the day becoming an economic issue as global shipping companies look to avoid that route as they move goods around the world.

Certainly, US officials do say that they think that they have contained what could have been worst case scenarios in terms of escalation, but certainly these incidents do underscore these tensions that do remain and that President Biden is watching very closely, Jim.

ACOSTA: All right, Kevin. Liptak, Will Ripley, thanks to both of you.

For more analysis on this, let's go straight to Tel Aviv and our CNN political and global affairs analyst, Barak Ravid. He is also politics and foreign policy reporter for AXIOS. Barak, I do want to ask you about this drone attack in just a few moments, but I wanted to go back to that video that Will Ripley was talking about near the Rafah Border Crossing where we saw gunfire, breaking up, people sort of almost running in a panic with relief supplies that had come in.

I guess, what's your sense when you talk to your sources, about the level of desperation inside Gaza? And whether things could -- I mean, this just gives you a sense that things can really spiral out of control in a significant way that it just might become difficult for anybody to get a handle or a lid on the situation? What's your sense of it?

BARAK RAVID, CNN POLITICAL AND FOREIGN POLICY ANALYST: First, I agree with you, Jim, that the situation is very, very serious and it is getting worse by the day and I think what is most challenging is that in a few weeks, the Israeli military is going to phase out this operation and move from the high intensity phase to the low intensity phase, which means that most of the IDF soldiers will go out of the Palestinian cities, and then you'll have a vacuum all over the Gaza Strip.

And then either Hamas will come back again, or we will see the same pictures we saw in Rafah today, we will see it all over the Gaza Strip, and the number one challenge now is to find a way for somebody to be in charge of law and order in a few weeks in Gaza, so that all this humanitarian aid that is coming in, won't be looted, will reach the people who need it. And unfortunately, at that moment, there's nobody that can do it.

ACOSTA: Right, because Barak, one of the conversations that really hasn't been fully dealt with is who is going to be the governing authority in Gaza in the near future? I can't imagine Israel is going to want Hamas to be the governing authority and when you see the chaos breakout that we saw today, I mean, that is going to be a major challenge.

RAVID: Of course, and if it's not Hamas, and if there is no other volunteer that can take the Gaza Strip under its responsibility, the Egyptians are not going to do it, the Saudis are not going to do it, the Emiratis are not going to do it, then Israel can find itself again, not next year, and not six months from now, but a few weeks from now, in a situation where it will have to take responsibility for two million Palestinians in Gaza, and this is the last thing Israel wants.

But if there's not going to be any alternative governing body, and for now, there is not, you know, the responsibility will lie at Israel's table.

ACOSTA: And Barak, what do you make of The Pentagon singling out Iran for this latest drone attack on this commercial ship? It does sound as though the tensions are really building and it almost feels like a foreshadowing of something to come to send a message to the Houthi rebels, to send a message to the Iranians potentially, what can you tell us? RAVID: I think what is important and interesting in this recent attack that generated from Iran, this drone attack against this ship near the Coast of India is that it's a kind of attack that we haven't seen for many, many months.

Something like a year ago, we saw almost every week, an Iranian attack on some sort of a vessel that had either a strong connection or a weak connection to Israel, and this was part of this shadow war between Israel and Iran because the Israelis also attacked Iranian vessels and this war, this tit-for-tat, but we haven't seen this for a long, long time. And the fact that the Iranians decided to resume those attacks, those direct attacks from Iran against Israeli vessels or vessels that are affiliated with Israeli companies, I think it's a very worrisome sign because it's no doubt an escalation after what we've seen in the last few weeks.

[15:30:14 ]

ACOSTA: And when we were talking with Kevin Liptak earlier about this on this program, I mean, there is a sense in the Biden administration, that the Iranians may be setting something a bit of a trap, and that they, they want to almost bait the Israelis in the US to, I guess, muster some kind of response that would widen the conflict, make things messier in the region. I suppose there is that side of it, too that has to be dealt with.

RAVID: Yes. So senior Israeli officials that I talked to are very aware that that's the case and this is why you did not see Israel retaliating against the Houthis in Yemen, because the Israelis say, this is exactly what the Iranians and the Houthis want.

They want to distract us from Gaza, they want to distract us from trying to deter Hezbollah in the north and we are not going to do it, and therefore , Israel gives a chance for this international maritime coalition in the Red Sea.

But on the other hand, the Israelis do say that they think that the US should do something about it and about the Houthis, and you see that every day, the Houthis are escalating their attacks on US vessels in the Red Sea, US Navy vessels, just the other day, an attack on a US ship.

And when I speak to US officials in Washington, they say and they recognize that this is an option that is on the table, US taking military action against the Houthis. It is being considered in the Pentagon, it is being considered in the White House.

Secretary of Defense Austin when he was just here in Tel Aviv a week ago, he told the Israelis, we are not taking a military action off the table when it comes to the Houthis.

ACOSTA: All right, Barak Ravid, perhaps you're going to be watching over these holidays. Thank you so much. Appreciate the time today.

RAVID: Thank you, Jim, and I hope you all have a calm holiday season. ACOSTA: You as well. Thank you.

Still ahead, a Chicago man wrongfully convicted of murder is now free after more than 12 years behind bars. We'll discuss what's fueling the recent string of exonerations in the US.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:36:29]

ACOSTA: A mall in Ocala, Florida will remain closed until at least Tuesday following a deadly shooting on Saturday that killed one man and left a woman injured on one of the busiest shopping days of the year. It all happened at the Paddock Mall in Ocala on Saturday just two days before Christmas as shoppers crowded the mall for last minute holiday shopping.

Police believe the man who died was targeted by the shooter and they are still searching for him.

Now, to the stunning overturning of another murder conviction in Chicago. This past week, 30-year-old Darien Harris was freed after serving 12 years in prison after the revelation that the prosecutor's star witness in that case, who picked Harris out of a lineup was legally blind.

Harris is the fourth man to be exonerated in Chicago's Cook County just this month and at least seven exonerations across the country this month. One common theme is that police have relied on statements from bystanders that were later shown to be mistaken or not in line with other facts in the case.

I'm joined now by Vanessa Potkin. She is the director of Litigation for the Innocence Project Group that works to overturn wrongful convictions.

And Vanessa, thank you so much for being with us. I mean, when you hear about, you know, relying on blind witnesses and bystanders who are getting things wrong, I mean, it makes you wonder whether there are more people who are locked up right now who have been in similar circumstances, convicted under similar circumstances.

Why are we seeing more exonerations right now? What's your sense of all that?

VANESSA POTKIN, DIRECTOR OF LITIGATION, INNOCENCE PROJECT GROUP: Thank you for having me.

We have seen in this last year about 150 exonerations, and that means that every two to three days in this country, somebody is being exonerated after having been convicted and oftentimes spent decades in prison for crimes that they did not commit, that they were completely innocent of. Since 1989, there have been close to 3,500 exonerations nationwide. One of the reasons that we're seeing so many exonerations is because there are increasingly mechanisms for people to get back into court after they are wrongfully convicted.

We know that there are so many more people in prison today who are innocent. We have approximately 1.9 million people in this country on any given day in custody, incarcerated, and conservative estimates are about five percent of people based on exoneration rates and analysis are actually innocent.

A conservative estimate, that means close to a hundred thousand people locked up today are in a prison cell or a jail cell for something that they didn't do.

It is very hard once you're convicted to overturn a wrongful conviction, and so, the reason we're seeing more people get out and be able to get back into court is, you know, the laws are starting to change, to allow people to get back into court, but we have a long way to go in that regard.

ACOSTA: Yes, and what do the prosecutors, what do the cops, the detectives say in these circumstances where it is discovered, oh, they relied on a blind witness or they relied on bystanders who didn't have the best recollection of what occurred and somebody was wrongfully convicted for it. Is it just sort of like oops, sorry?

I mean, are those officials typically, they've left the scene and they're no longer there to apologize. So you just -- you don't get much of a sense of regret from public officials on this.

[15:40:08]

POTKIN: Well, you know, one thing that we've seen emerge in prosecutors' offices and this has also led to a big number of exonerations that we're seeing are these conviction integrity or conviction review units where prosecutors are willing to take another look at a case. This has been really instrumental because before then, you know, people are -- cases are being handled by the appellate unit in prosecutor's offices, and there's a knee jerk reaction to just try to defend the conviction and not take a look at what really happened. So that's been huge to where we are.

And one of the last exonerations that we had at the Innocence Project, which I really think speaks to your question involves a man named Jabar Walker, who spent close to 27 years in prison for a crime in New York City that he didn't commit.

His conviction was overturned less than a month ago, after a year-long joint reinvestigation between the Innocence Project and Manhattan DA, Alvin Bragg's Post-Conviction Justice Unit. But what we uncovered, there was pervasive misconduct.

The trial prosecutor in the case, Helen Stern, had provided the witness with -- one of the key witnesses with some financial benefits that were not disclosed to the defense contrary to our constitutional principle, what must be disclosed.

There was other exculpatory information that was not turned over by the police. And the problem is, is that there's not true accountability. When these cases happen, somebody is exonerated and there is a feeling like, oh, justice has been done, but Justice hasn't been done. You know, somebody is now released after a wrongful conviction, but it's an unforgivable injustice.

ACOSTA: Right.

POTKIN: And unless we have accountability, nothing is going to change.

So if there is favorable evidence that leads to prosecutors don't turn over, you know, there has to be accountability once we uncover that.

ACOSTA: Absolutely.

POTKIN: There has to be changes to happen to need to make sure that officers have practices that -- and you know, that there is supervision and there is training and that there is oversight to make sure that favorable evidence is being turned over and where there is official misconduct, police and prosecutorial misconduct have to have accountability, otherwise, there is no incentive for people to change. And over half of the nation's exonerations have involved police and prosecutorial misconduct.

ACOSTA: Wow.

POTKIN: So where it exists, we need to have accountability.

ACOSTA: Absolutely.

Well, Vanessa Potkin, thank you to your group. I've covered the Innocence Project and the work that they've done over the years and it is just remarkable what you and your teams do all over the country and give people their lives back. It's really important work.

Vanessa, thank you very much for your time. We really appreciate it.

POTKIN: Thank you.

ACOSTA: All right, we'll be right back.

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[15:47:12]

ACOSTA: As the cultural classic, "The Color Purple" is introduced to a new generation, the film is set to hit theaters on Christmas Day.

CNN correspondent, Stephanie Elam takes a look at the impact of the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): "The Color Purple" is back, but with a refresh.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is a beautiful reimagined and it's not a remake. It invites the older generation but it invites the younger generation.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Suffering is the great equalizer --

ELAM (voice over): Based on Alice Walker's 1982 novel by the same name, "The Color Purple" tells the story of Celie, a poor Black woman in the early 1900s who finds self-worth, healing, and happiness despite devastating odds with the help of the women around her.

SOFIA, FICTIONAL CHARACTER, "THE COLOR PURPLE": I never thought I had to fight in my own house.

ELAM (voice over): Steven Spielberg directed the first iteration of "The Color Purple" for Warner Brothers, which shares the same parent company as CNN. It garnered 11 Oscar noms with a star studded cast including Whoopi Goldberg, Danny Glover, and Oprah Winfrey, who as executive producer, helped the new film reach more advanced theater buyouts than any other in Warner's history.

OPRAH WINFREY, TALK SHOW HOST: So God can dream a bigger dream.

ELAM (voice over): In the early 2000s, "The Color Purple" hit the Great White Way and was revived in 2015. This film adaptation taking a cue from Broadway is also a musical and emphasizes the message of hope more than the original film.

WINFREY: Well, I will have to say, there is a buoyancy and a joyfulness to this reimagination that wasn't present in the first and that the music comes out of the spirit of the story.

["THE COLOR PURPLE" VIDEO CLIP PLAYS]

ELAM (voice over): The new version features dynamic performances from Taraji P. Henson as Shug Avery, Danielle Brooks as Sofia, Colman Domingo as Mister, and Fantasia Barrino who first started Celie on Broadway. Yet, she initially turned down the role for the movie.

FANTASIA BARRINO, SINGER AND ACTRESS: She carries everybody and at the time, when I was doing Broadway, I was carrying everybody. And my life was so much like Celie's.

I'm glad that I did it because I'm not that girl anymore. She was strong. She held everybody together and she went through a lot of things but look at Celie now.

ELAM (voice over): Besides Winfrey, the new film is executive produced by Spielberg, Quincy Jones, and Scott Sanders.

SCOTT SANDERS, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, "THE COLOR PURPLE": Black culture has used music to uplift for centuries.

ELAM (voice over): It was his idea to turn the book into a Broadway musical and now, a musical for the big screen.

SANDERS: We very intentionally looked at the story through a prism of Black joy, of hope, of perseverance, and of true sisterhood.

Taraji actually said Alice Walker wrote us Black Shakespeare and we all know that Shakespeare gets reinterpreted all the time.

[15:50:08]

ELAM (voice over): Reinterpreted, refreshed and still resonating worldwide.

Stephanie Elam, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA: And coming up, the Christmas Powerball jackpot climbing to $638 million. Your chances of winning that major holiday gift, we'll talk about that. And yes, even pandas love Christmas presents. How the animals at one zoo in France are celebrating.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:55:01]

ACOSTA: This could be a very Merry Christmas for one lucky lottery player. The Powerball jackpot has climbed to an estimated $638 million just in time for tomorrow night's Christmas drawing.

Only three players in the past have won the Powerball jackpot on Christmas Day. The estimated cash value of Monday night's grand prize is more than $321 million. If I win, you'll never see me again.

Anyway, moving on.

Christmas came early for some animals at a zoo in France this weekend. The famous Chinese pandas tore into those boxes to find their favorite bamboo stalks as their Christmas presents, not a bad gift from Santa.

Zookeepers also built this beautiful Iceman sculpture for this little red panda to play with, that's beautiful, and the zoo's orangutangs received lettuce and other treats although it appears they may have enjoyed eating the wrapping paper, too. It happens to the best of us.

These gifts are part of the zoo's enrichment program designed to stimulate the animal's cognitive abilities and curiosity. It works on people too as a matter of fact.

And we'll be right back.

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[16:00:00]