Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Haley Admits Slavery Should Have Been The "First Thing" She Mentioned When Asked About The Civil War; Trump Fights 14th Amendment "Insurrectionist" Ballot Bans; Humanitarian Crisis In Gaza Deepens As War Intensifies; Inside The Brutal Underground World Of Dog Fighting. Aired 12-1p ET

Aired December 30, 2023 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: And after many years, one of Frank Stella's canvasses has just return to the market, with an asking price of $45 million.

Don't forget, you can find all our shows online as podcast at cnn.com/podcast and on all other major platforms.

I'm Christiane Amanpour in London. Thank you for watching, and I'll see you again next week, which will be the new year. So, wishing you all a very happy New Year.

[12:00:38]

AMARA WALKER, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm Amara Walker, in for Fredricka Whitfield.

We begin this hour with Nikki Haley's latest efforts to clarify her statements about slavery and the cause of the Civil War. For days, the Republican presidential candidate has faced backlash from Republicans and Democrats for not mentioning slavery as a cause for the Civil War when asked by a voter in New Hampshire.

Well, today, she is admitting that slavery should have been the first thing she said when asked.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIKKI HALEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yes, of course, the first thing I should have said was slavery. I completely agree with that. It when you grow up in the South, slavery is a given like when you think of the Civil War, you know, it was about slavery. That's not, you know, that's never been in question.

And, you know, you look at that, I'm a southern governor who actually asked and got the Confederate flag to come down in front of the statehouse. So, slavery, if you grew up in South Carolina, you know that that's a huge part of history. But you take it for the lesson that it is, which is, yes, that's a stain on our history.

But where do we go with it from here? And that is what is the role of government.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right. Right.

HALEY: And what is -- what rights do individuals have, and what freedoms do they have? And we want to always fight for freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom for a person to do anything they want to do without government or another person getting in their way? That was the -- if you went on and heard the rest of the explanation, that's what I was trying to say.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, by the way But I should have said slavery right away.

HALEY: But yes, I should have said, slavery, right away.

WALKER: We're also following the growing legal battles over former President Trump's right to appear on the 2024 ballot Any moment now, the Oregon Supreme Court could decide whether or not Trump will remain on that state's 2024 ballot.

A liberal advocacy group filed a 14th Amendment lawsuit earlier this month, arguing Trump is ineligible to run for office because of his role and the January 6th insurrection.

Late last night Trump's attorneys filed a brief with the Court urging the Oregon justices to keep him on the ballot. And this week, Maine joined Colorado in banning Trump from its primary ballot. But both rulings are on hold, right now. They are caught up in court battles, and sources say Trump is expected to appeal all of them on Tuesday. CNN's Paula Reid has the very latest.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The Supreme Court, facing increasing pressure to weigh in on whether states can remove former President Trump from the 2024 ballot, after mean became the second state to kick him off based on the 14th Amendment's ban on insurrectionists holding public office.

SHENNA BELLOWS, MAINE SECRETARY OF STATE: No secretary of state has ever deprived a presidential candidate of ballot access based on Section Three of the 14th Amendment. But no presidential candidate has ever engaged in insurrection and been disqualified under Section Three of the 14th Amendment.

REID (voice over): In Maine, ballot eligibility questions, first, go to the secretary of state, not the courts. Trump has called for Democrat Shenna Bellows to recuse herself in this case because of previous comments about January 6th, where she tweeted, "The Jan 6 insurrection was an unlawful attempt to overthrow the results of a free and fair election."

She did not remove herself from the matter. And now, the issue heads to the courts, as Trump and the state's Republican Party vowed to appeal.

JOEL STETKIS, CHAIR, MAINE REPUBLICAN PARTY: Our voting rights enshrined in the Constitution are sacred to us. And to have one particular person remove really the top candidate from the ballot, because she dislikes that person just smells of politics.

REID (voice over): The question of Trump's ballot eligibility has been debated in multiple states with only Maine and Colorado taking him off the primary ballot. Even California on Thursday, opted to include him.

In a statement, the Trump campaign accused Colorado and Maine of election interference, "attempted theft of an election and the disenfranchisement of the American voter."

Even some of Trump's rivals have criticized states taking him out of the running instead of leaving it to voters.

[12:05:02]

CHRIS CHRISTIE, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It makes him a martyr, you know. He is very good at playing poor me -- poor me.

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Can you have a Republican secretary of state disqualify Biden from the ballot because he has led in 8 million people illegally.

REID (voice over): The Colorado GOP has already appealed that state's ruling to the United States Supreme Court, asking the justices to take up three key questions: Does Section Three of the 14th Amendment apply to a president? And is Section Three of the 14th Amendment to be enforced by state?

And also asking, whether the GOP has a First Amendment right to choose its candidates.

Trump is also expected to appeal.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They are trying to take the election away from the voters.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

REID (on camera): And in states like Michigan and Minnesota where they opted to keep Trump on the ballot for the primary, those judges left the door open to re litigate this issue for the general election. So, the Supreme Court does not step in here. This is a question that could hang over the 2024 election through November.

Paula Reid, CNN, Washington.

WALKER: All right. Paula Reid, thank you very much.

Joining me now to talk about the political implications of all of this is Shermichael Singleton. He is a Republican strategist. And Basil Smikle is a democratic strategist and a former executive director of the New York State Democratic Party.

Thank you both for joining me this afternoon.

Shermichael, let's get to you first because you're a Republican strategist. SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: OK.

WALKER: How do you think these efforts to keep Trump off the ballot might impact Trump in the 2024 race?

SINGLETON: Well, I certainly think it actually strengthens him within the Republican primary for a lot of Republican voters, even those who may have been, Amara, somewhat tepid about Mr. Trump. They look at these efforts. And they see these efforts as an attempt by individuals who may not like Mr. Trump for political reasons, despite what the allegations are.

They may also dislike -- they believe that the voters should honestly have the last say in terms of Mr. Trump's potential guilt or his ability or inability to actually be reelected.

And so, I think Democrats have to be very careful with this. For the history of this country, we have always allowed people to have one single vote for the candidate of their choice. And I think that needs to continue.

WALKER: Basil, do you agree? Do you think that this issue should be left to the voters to decide rather than courts and officials -- elected officials?

BASIL SMIKLE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Yes, you know, this does make me a bit nervous. You know, I remember 2000, when Democrats were upset that the Supreme Court essentially came in and decided that election in favor of George W. Bush over Al Gore.

And I think, Shermichael is right, I think this does really embolden him among some of the GOP primary voters. And it does really fall into all of Trump's language.

He talks about, you know, the retribution and retaliation, he also talks about the weaponization of law enforcement and the courts against him. He will say to supporters, I'm doing this -- I'm going through this for you. You know, he has to be the aggrieved party here. So, it does fit into that larger martyrdom narrative that he weaves.

So, I do think that this helps him considerably. I do think Democrats are concerned about the potential outcome of this. You know, we, like others want to win this on the ground in the field at the ballot box. And if he wins, as a result of that, versus, you know, trying to get him off the ballot, it says more -- it says a lot about where the country is.

(CROSSTALK)

WALKER: Well --

SMIKLE: But I do think there is value with winning it on the ground.

WALKER: Sure, sure. Absolutely.

SINGLETON: Yes. WALKER: And we've heard that argument many times on both sides. But, you know, we know that these legal battles, they have only made Trump stronger for his primary.

SINGLETON: Yes.

WALKER: For his base, right? A place to him. Place to their base, and they become, perhaps, more supportive of Trump as a result, because they see this, you know, as politically motivated.

But how do you think this impacts Shermichael, the general election, where, you know, Trump is going to need some moderate Republicans and independents to, you know, to win?

(CROSSTALK)

SINGLETON: Yes. Yes, Amara, that's a really great question, because if you look at some of the states, Colorado, Maine, which Colorado secretary of state actually say that Trump will remain on the ballot. I also believe that more than likely, he'll likely remain on the ballot in Maine, as there are some deadlines that may have indeed already passed.

So, the question is sort of becomes if this is to remove him because of his behavior. Some may argue -- some Republicans may argue this is a political witch hunt to use Trump's famous phrase against the former president.

Does this actually impact his electoral account? Well, the reality is no, Amara. Colorado, Maine, and a few of those other states were states that Trump wasn't going to win.

Anyway, the difficult question for Trump becomes, how is this perceived by voters in states that he needs? Ohio, Pennsylvania, Georgia, Arizona, Nevada. That's a question, I think, of considerable concern for the former president, particularly looking at swing voters.

[12:10:06]

Are there other things that he could potentially pivot to such as immigration, such as the economy, which is indeed improving over time. I was looking at some of the foreign issues with Ukraine and Russia, with Israel and Gaza.

So, those are perhaps some other things that are more directly impactful to people that they are paying far more attention to, that he needs to pivot to, and less talk about this, less talk about 2020. But more so about the president and what he plans to do in the future.

WALKER: Basil, I'll give you the last comments on Trump's legal issues and how, you know, we may see that impact the general election?

SMIKLE: Well, yes, I think that, as we said before, you know, he likes to play the martyr. And I do think it emboldened his base. But it does -- but it's not going to make him that that stronger general election candidate, because those are -- there are independent voters that are going to be very important to this race. Those suburban voters, particularly on issues related to reproductive rights as Shermichael said the economy, questions of immigration, affordable housing, which has been a policy that, that some governors are talking about putting into suburban communities.

All these real flashpoint touchstone issues are going to be really important. But overall, I do think that, that, that those voters lean a bit more towards the Democrats in terms of governance, democracy, and the ability to have gotten the economy back on track.

So, I think it favors Democrats, but it's certainly a point where Donald Trump is going to need to pivot into those issues a lot more.

WALKER: Let's shift gears quickly to the Republican primary race. And I just wanted to get your take Shermichael on Haley's comments today, admitting that, you know, slavery should have been the first thing she mentioned when she was asked about the Civil War.

Keep in mind that this is the you know, the former South Carolina governor.

SINGLETON: Yes.

WALKER: South Carolina was the first state to secede or attempt to secede. I mean, is it -- is it too little too late at this point?

SINGLETON: I mean, look, I congratulate her on trying to clean this up, if you will, Amara, as best as possible. But this shouldn't have even been necessary to be quite frankly. As she continues to talk about state's rights and limited government.

And I keep wondering who exactly is the former governor speaking to, Amara? Slavery was wrong, but we need to make sure that the government is out of people's business.

Of those two things, in my opinion, it does indeed seem like a dog was -- I mean, I think about the vice president of the Confederacy, Alexander Stephens, and I'll just read a quote from it really quickly, Amara.

He went on to say that slavery, the subordination to the superior race, is the natural normal condition for black people." This is someone who believe that no matter how much education an African American could receive, we would always be lesser than white people.

So, when you talk about state's rights, removing government out of people's lives, but yes, slavery was wrong. Those two things, in my personal opinion, cannot go hand in hand.

Slavery was wrong, and we do need government to protect against individuals who want to discriminate against marginalized people, such as the three of us who are people of color.

WALKER: Fascinating point. Thank you so much. We'll ended on that strong note. Shermichael Singleton and Basil Smikle, great to see you both. Happy New Year. Thank you so much for coming on.

SMIKLE: Happy New Year.

SINGLETON: Happy New Year, Amara. Thank you.

WALKER: Right. Thanks. Still to come, a fresh attack on Russian soil. The Ukrainian military shelling the city of Belgorod, just a day after Russia launched the biggest air attack on Ukraine since the start of the invasion.

We're going to have the very latest on the conflict when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:17:37]

WALKER: At least 14 people were killed and more than 100 injured in a Ukrainian shelling attack on the city of Belgorod inside Russia. That is according to Russian officials.

The attack appears to be in retaliation to a massive Russian air attack on Ukraine that killed at least 40 people on Friday.

It was Russia's biggest air assault since its full-scale invasion of Ukraine began almost two years ago.

The Biden administration says U.S. supplied defense systems helped knock many of the Russian drones and missiles out of the sky, as it called on Congress to pass more spending for Ukraine's defense.

CNN International diplomatic editor Nic Robertson, joining me now. Hi, there, Nic. Tell us more about the significance of this attack on Belgorod, inside Russia, obviously, shattering any sense of security for civilians in Russia.

What do we know about this attack?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, it's hard to really nail down all of the specifics, because Russia has a habit of sort of not putting out entirely correct and accurate information. But this does appear to be a situation where Ukraine has scored a heavy hit on Russian civilians. It's just Belgorod, is about 20 miles or so from the border.

President Putin has already responded to this. He has sent his health minister there, he has sent a team from the emergencies ministry. So, the Russians are taking this really seriously. The Russian defense ministers has said that this will not go unanswered.

So, this is very this is very serious for the Russians. We don't know if this was specifically retaliation for the attack on Ukraine yesterday, by Russia.

It does appear to be the deadliest incident cross border attack by Ukraine on Russians and Russian civilians and a Russian town that we are aware of since the war began. This is not a toll a death toll that we're used to hearing about. There are regular attacks, but I think absolutely yes, this will have shattered that sense of being safe for Russians, even though there are drones that flyover Belgorod a lot is, it does get attacked from time to time by the Ukrainians.

The Ukrainians will know very clearly that President Putin is having an election coming up in a couple of months. And he is obviously going to win because there's no challenger.

[12:20:02]

But he tries to portray this sense that the war is going well. So, perhaps the Ukrainians are trying to get that message back. It's not, there is a cost. You hit us, we hit you. And this is a sensitive time, therefore, for Putin.

WALKER: And, as you know, the U.S. has unveiled its final aid package to Ukraine. I think it's $250 million for arms and defense systems. Obviously, we know that Congress remains at an impasse. They're not at work right now.

But what happens, you know, if Congress can't reach a deal for more money anytime soon.

ROBERTSON: Yes, the reason that the Ukrainians were really looking forward to that close to $60 billion that they were hoping would get passed, and then got stalled, was because it allows them to plan over the long term.

Now, they just get little bits -- little bit -- little bits, and it's hand to mouth existence. They go through ammunition at a huge rate, their air defense system, as we saw yesterday, has big holes in it and they need -- they need more munitions, more equipment to fix that.

Perhaps, one of their salvations here, maybe in part, from the European Union, but the European Union before Christmas, just before Christmas was on the verge of passing a $55 billion support package for Ukraine to run out over four years.

But they balked at it.

There is a plan B that might free up $20 billion in European Union money for Ukraine. But no, I mean, it just leaves a lot of uncertainty for Ukraine right now.

WALKER: Nic Robertson, appreciate your reporting as always. Thank you very much.

Up next, Israel says it is expanding its offensive in Gaza and destroyed a hideout apartment belonging to a Hamas leader. While the U.N. is sounding the alarm about the humanitarian crisis in Rafah and southern Gaza, where many tens of thousands have fled, looking for safety.

We're going to go live to Tel Aviv after a quick break. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:26:24]

WALKER: As the Israeli military expands its operations into southern Gaza, they are urging people in Gaza to use what they call, safe routes, running west of Khan Younis. The IDF says these roads will allow humanitarian movement to areas that the U.N. says is overcrowded with refugees.

Battles are also underway in the north, where the IDF says it destroyed a tunnel system and hideout belonging to Yahya Sinwar, Hamas's leader in Gaza.

I'm joined now by journalist Elliott Gotkine, live from Tel Aviv.

Elliott, we know that the communications systems are pretty much out. So, are people getting these instructions from the IDF, at least, near Khan Younis?

ELLIOTT GOTKINE, CNN JOURNALIST: Amara, it's unclear that they are getting these instructions. As you say, communications are a best patchy. And so, for people to receive this information would really require Israel to do what it has done in the past, which is to drop physical fliers from the air so that people can see them. And then, they would have that map to hand to know exactly where they're supposed to go.

And then, they can make their own decision as to whether they want to go or whether they don't go. But what's happening right now is that it's just been posted electronically so far as we are aware, and it's unclear that, that message is getting through.

So, people may decide to move or they may not. Ultimately, when they do decide to move, they tend to gravitate towards Rafah in the southern part of the Gaza Strip near the border with Egypt.

But Rafah has already received more than 100 -- more than 100,000 Palestinians being displaced from other parts of the Gaza Strip in recent days.

There's something like 12,000 people per square kilometer there. We know that there is overcrowding. The World Health Organization has expressed concern about the proliferation of diseases, such as diarrhea and respiratory diseases. And on top of that, prices are skyrocketing for ordinary goods such as yeast, salt, and flour. So, it's a pretty precarious situation that people find themselves in, which is, do they stay? Do they even know that they are supposed to go, and if so, where are they supposed to go?

And what people tend to do, as I say, is to move to those areas in the furthest reaches of the Gaza Strip, which are already overcrowded and where diseases already seemingly beginning to spread, and the humanitarian situation is seemingly getting worse every day, Amara.

WALKER: Yes, sounds like impossible decisions that these civilians are having to make regularly.

Can you tell me more about the tunnel system and the hideout apartment that the IDF says that destroyed?

GOTKINE: Yes, this is near Gaza City in the northern parts of the Gaza Strip. The IDF says he discovered a strategic tunnel or kind of tunnel superhighway almost, which had many branches going off in different directions. It ran to a depth of 20 meters. They said it had electricity. It had ventilation. It had sewage systems. It even had prayer rooms and that this tunnel was found underneath the basement floor of one of Yahya Sinwar's hideout apartments.

Yahya Sinwar being the leader of Hamas in the Gaza Strip, and believes to be one of the masterminds of the October the 7th terrorist attacks that killed, at least 1,200 people in Israel and resulted in more than 200 being kidnapped, more than 100 of whom are still being held in the Gaza Strip.

So, Israel sent robots the IDF send robot down there to examine this tunnel to collect as much intelligence and information as they possibly could. They then rigged it with explosives and destroyed it. Amara?

WALKER: Elliott Gotkine in Tel Aviv, thank you very much.

Well, the United Nations is raising alarm about overcrowding and Rafah as you heard Elliott mentioned there after more than 100,000 internally displaced people arrived in recent days.

[12:30:09]

Just look at these pictures, residents there describe sky high food prices and children going hungry. And now the World Health Organization reports diseases are quickly spreading as a result of the mass displacements. CNN's Nada Bashir has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NADA BASHIR, CNN REPORTER (voice-over): A seemingly endless stream of injuries. The wounded rushed to whatever hospitals are still able to treat patients. Day after day, the death toll climbs. There is no respite from Israel's widening offensive.

By daybreak, smoke rises above southern Gaza. Many of those who fled here for protection now watch as their loved ones are buried. Grief here is never ending.

Israel says it is targeting Hamas who they say are embedding themselves amongst civilians. But the innocent here are shown no mercy in this war, gripped with fear as Israeli forces repeatedly strike residential buildings and even around hospitals.

NADEEN ABDULATIF, DISPLACED GAZA RESIDENT: The house that we stayed in we thought it was good and found shelter finally. A house next to it was bombed. The house jiggled and the house went crazy and the windows broke. BASHIR (voice-over): In Rafah, a vital gateway to aid agencies. Children sift through the rubble of their now destroyed shelters, uncertain of what the future will bring, or if they will have one.

ABDULATIF: Where am I supposed to go? Children were killed here. I'm terrified. I'm scared. And the thought of me being killed or my other brother being killed just crossing my mind repeatedly.

BASHIR (voice-over): In Northern Gaza, it's not just the constant bombings striking fear into the hearts of civilians, but also the fear of starvation. Some 2.2 million people in Gaza are now set to be facing an acute hunger crisis, prompting this sea of desperation. Crowds grabbing at what little food aid has made it in unsure of their next opportunity. But there is one thing certain in Gaza, there is nowhere left to go.

MOEEN QANAN, GAZA RESIDENT (through translator): Children, elderly people, some were fasting. They were sitting in a rocket fell on them. They were displaced from Gaza to Khan Yunis and then moved to Rafah thinking that it was safer there. But there is no safety.

BASHIR (voice-over): With no safe place to turn, people continue to stream into Rafah despite the bombardments now gripping the border city. The U.N. says at least 100,000 displaced people have arrived in the already overwhelmed city in the past few days alone, families squeezing under tents, this, their only hope of shelter from the bitter cold of winter. As for the airstrikes, there is no hope of shelter wherever they turn.

Nada Bashir, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WALKER: No hope of shelter wherever they turn. Just incredible reporting there by our Nada Bashir.

For more on the ongoing humanitarian crisis in Gaza, I'm joined by Sean Carroll, president and CEO of American Near East Refugee Aid. Sean, thank you so much for joining us today. You recently wrote an op-ed for the Hill describing just two days you spent in Gaza. You were there from December 19th to the 21st. And you wrote this and part, Palestinians across Gaza described feeling like walking dead, relentlessly pursued by death. Just a powerful sentence there. Can you tell us more about what you saw and what struck you?

SEAN CARROLL, PRESIDENT & CEO, AMERICAN NEAR EAST REFUGEE AID: Well, and I hear this from many people. I've heard it directly. And we see it on social media every day. But this is how our staff feel like even as they continue to work, they continue to deliver humanitarian aid. This is how they feel. One of them told me he expects to die and we can't do humanitarian aid. We can't do our work when our workers are under the threat, the constant threat of potential human at death.

WALKER: You talk about the grief of some of your colleagues losing loved ones. Can you tell me about their situations, their plight? CARROLL: Well, on October 7th, we had 12 staff. We've now added some staff to that. Fortunately, none of the 12 have been killed. But among them, five of them have last -- lost some 50 family members. And it's not even certain the exact number because some of them were family members who stayed behind in Gaza City and communications is difficult. Verification is difficult. But somewhere around 50 family members of our 12 staff, Palestinian staff, in Gaza have been killed.

[12:35:17]

WALKER: Can you tell us a little bit --

CARROLL: And they don't have time.

WALKER: Right, right. And if you can just talk to us more about Rafah and what you're seeing there because, you know, the latest numbers from the U.N., is that at least 100,000 internally displaced people have arrived in Rafah, this is the southernmost point of Gaza. We know that 85 percent of Gaza's population is now internally displaced. Most of them, either in Rafah are heading towards Rafah, I mean, that is a tiny, little spot for so many desperate people. And of course, some and many afflicted with diseases converging upon. What does that look like? What does it sound like?

CARROLL: Well, you're exactly right. I mean, it's the combination of the density, they really are crammed into a tiny. This is one of five governor, it's in the Gaza Strip but only about a sixth of the land. And now, over half the population and growing day by day is in this tiny piece of land. And not only that, they're not spread out throughout Rafah, they're kind of squeezed into the southwest corner, some of the areas within the Rafah governor have also been ordered to evacuate. So it's really a tiny piece of the land.

And the zone that Israel has declared, the humanitarian zone is even smaller than that. And it's mostly where international aid organizations are. So the settlements, the informal settlements of internally displaced are crammed into the center of Rafah city, and it is completely untenable, because there isn't enough space and there aren't enough facilities, this region didn't have the facilities to take care of this size population.

And with bombardment continuing and with aid -- difficulties in getting aid in it really is a completely untenable, disastrous, craven depraved situation where people will die unnecessarily, unless there are drastic changes. And we're not just talking about bringing a little bit more aid, we're talking about people being able to go back from where they're from, the bombing, stopping and an increase in the aid coming in.

WALKER: Right. People going back to where they're from, though, they will have nothing to go back to. But also there's just not enough food, you talk about, you know, aid coming in is just, you know, scratching the surface. Because as I understand it, you right, that more than 90 percent of people have less than one meal a day, they're going to bed hungry. So that's a major issue. There are calls of an imminent risk of famine from some groups. CARROLL: Well, that's right. I mean, the international coalition that looks at famine, says that now four out of five of the hungriest people in the world are in Gaza. These images you're seeing actually, that's an a near a truck wreck was sent by my organization in the Gaza City. And the desperation there of a population that is still remained. It's uncertain exactly how many of the 750,000 in Gaza and some 400,000 in North Gaza have remained.

But it's somewhere in the hundreds of thousands still, and had gone many, many days without any aid, and that's a truck of ours arriving, it's untenable. And there has to be changed. There has to be a ceasefire. And there has to be a major influx of more aid.

WALKER: Yes. Sean, I can only imagine for you to leave the comfort, you know, of your home and your wherever you are heading, being in Gaza for just this two days. I wonder what kind of images are stuck in your head? What do you see? What do you think of when you go to bed at night?

CARROLL: Well, I think of people desperately trying to cope. And people are resilient and people are resourceful and no one more than the Palestinians in Gaza. But there are limits and some of the mechanisms for coping are not long term solutions and their negative coping mechanisms. They're using cooking oil to run cars, which produces a toxin pollutant. There -- some people are refusing to drink water because they don't want to wait in the long lines for unsanitary latrines. And if you don't drink water that brings its own health problems.

Firewood and scrap wood are being used to cook meals. For most people, the vast majority, that's the only way to cook. And just the overcrowding, these are some of the photos I took and these are areas that just don't have this density population and they're living in flimsy tents without the facilities they need to survive and they can do it for a few days. They've done it now, many of them for weeks and months. And it can't go on.

[12:40:14]

WALKER: I'm sure there just aren't enough words to describe some of the things you have seen. Sean Carroll, thank you so much for your time and appreciate you bringing your experience to us. We're going to take a quick break. Back after this.

CARROLL: Thank you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WALKER: Now to a CNN investigation inside the disturbing and shadowy world of dog fighting. Federal agents in South Carolina recently seized 120 fighting dogs in a single day in a crackdown on dogfighting rings. CNN's Isabel Rosales rode along as officials raided the homes of the suspects. And a word of caution that this report includes images of injured fighting dogs that some viewers may find disturbing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) [12:45:21]

ISABEL ROSALES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's pitch black outside of South Carolina church, at the ready are dozens of foreign law enforcement officers. Today, they're seizing fighting dogs. Behind them --

JANE TAYLOR, CHIEF, CRIMINAL DIVISION, U.S. ATTORNEY'S OFFICE: So I'm definitely anxious. I'm always anxious to see the dogs.

ROSALES (voice-over): We ride along with the federal prosecutor overseeing the criminal case.

TAYLOR: It's heartbreaking. I get very emotional.

ROSALES (voice-over): Emotional because of how vicious dog fighting is, made all the more clear in court documents. Dogs who have been fought may have scars, puncture wounds, swollen faces or mangled ears. In one case, prosecutor say an owner killed his dog by hanging it. And authorities found this contraption made from jumper cables, allegedly used to electrocute dogs inside the home of a pentagon employee.

This CNN exclusive video evidence from a close case shows two dogs getting ready to fight. The illegal sport has spiked federal interest. Last year, official seized roughly 400 dogs from suspected fighting rings, more than in any other year since at least 2007 according to a CNN review of civil forfeitures. Jane Taylor tells me she was a lifelong narcotics prosecutor until she first saw the injuries on fighting dogs.

TAYLOR: I had a case where we had a wiretap and we were listening to the calls of the individuals involved in drugs. And we started hearing a lot of conversations about dogs and dog fighting.

ROSALES (voice-over): We arrived at the first of five homes.

ROSALES: What sort of things are you on the lookout for when you enter a property?

ELLE KLEIN, ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY, DISTRICT OF SOUTH CAROLINA: I'm looking at the conditions of the dogs themselves. I'm looking for any sort of scarring, any fresh wounds. Then I'm also looking for what I'll call dog fighting paraphernalia.

ROSALES (voice-over): Like these treadmills to make the dog stronger and faster, and --

KLEIN: Something called spring poles where the dogs are used to jump up and they latch on it so strengthen their jaws.

ROSALES (voice-over): Experts say dogs are often tied down with heavy chains and weighted collars to increase their strength. Some dog fighters inject their animals with drugs or vitamins to increase aggression. And before a big fight, some fighting dogs are starved to keep them in their weight class like a boxer. Tucked away in this wooded area, federal agents find the first of roughly 120 pitbulls that would be seized. And what will turn out to be South Carolina's second largest single day seizure of fighting dogs ever say investigators. They're photographed and loaded into trailers to get medical care and shelter.

MAJ. FRANK O'NEAL, SOUTH CAROLINA LAW ENFORCEMENT DIVISION: When we go onto a property, they'll wag their tail because they haven't had any interaction, I mean, friendly interaction.

ROSALES (voice-over): Major Frank O'Neal with the South Carolina State Law Enforcement Division.

O'NEAL: They've been abused by the owner and a fighting dog just breaks your heart.

KLEIN: People are making a lot of money off of this. My opinion, even $1 is too much to be making money off of this.

ROSALES (voice-over): And there are plenty of ways to get paid. According to court documents, in South Carolina participants paid $200,000 to have their animals fight against a top dog. Another fighting dog won over $50,000. The owner of a champion dog can make even more money on semen, stud fees and puppies.

O'NEAL: Many of them are drug travelers, because they have to fund gambling of these dogs and these dogs are very expensive. They're going to have weapons. And if we haven't already arrested them, the chances are we will arrest them in another arena.

ROSALES (voice-over): Inside this home, officers find several guns. The homeowner declined to speak with CNN. Federal agents pack up and head to the next house.

KLEIN: We're about 20 minutes out. They say there's about 12 dogs.

ROSALES: Dog fighting became a felony at the federal level back in 2007. The maximum sentence a suspect can face is five years in federal prison. Meanwhile, for the animals, experts say that some dogs are too aggressive to rehabilitate but others can be adopted and get a second chance at life.

Isabel Rosales, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WALKER: Well, that's good to know that some dogs could get a second chance at life. Let's talk more about this situation. Judah Battista is the chief sanctuary officer and cofounder at the Best Friends Animal Society. They are a national animal welfare organization dedicated to working with shelters and rescue groups to ensure that no animals are killed and the group also runs the largest sanctuary for homeless animals in the U.S. Judah, really appreciate your time. Thank you so much for joining us. Before we get to your group's larger mission, I first want to ask you, how often do you think encounter dogfighting scenarios? [12:50:04]

JUDAH BATTISTA, CHIEF SANCTUARY OFFICER, BEST FRIENDS ANIMAL SOCIETY: We encounter or are asked for help, not as frequently as you might expect. It is -- we're much more connected to the challenges of that shelters have in placing dogs. Those situations do happen all at a very local level, like this South Carolina story. But it is a couple of times a year, at least.

WALKER: How often -- then how often Judah are these dogs, you know, fighting dogs, how often are they rehabilitated? Like what are -- what, I guess, characteristics should a dog have before it is determined that they either have to be put down or can be rehabilitated.

BATTISTA: So one of the things is that the reason for the choice of dog is the fact that they are very, very people friendly. That's part of the tragedy of dog fighting is that it's an act of loyalty on the part of the dog. And in some cases, they're -- whether they're coached or bullied into it -- it's -- it is their good nature with people that is a defining characteristic of the pitbull-type dog. The reality though, is that they're not all rehabilitatable.

And there are -- the tragedy is that some states actually will not allow for rehabilitation of a dog that's been seized. You know, North Carolina is a great example, that any dog that comes from this environment, regardless of the dog's disposition is required to be euthanized. And that's -- those are the sorts of things that we work to change.

WALKER: Yes. And speaking of, you know, rehabilitating dogs, you were just looking at some video of Michael Vick's dogs. Your group took in 22 dogs from Michael Vick's Bad Newz Kennels, and viewers may recall that the NFL star, he actually went to prison for running a dogfighting ring out of that kennel. Tell me about how these dogs, I guess, were rehabilitated because they were not put down, right, and your group was involved in that rescue?

BATTISTA: Yes, we were. We took 22 of the 47 dogs that were seized. The others went to eight other organizations, the 22 that we took were the most traumatized and or the most aggressive, and were like his champion, dog Lucas, who was not allowed to be really honed. And he lived his life at the sanctuary. And he actually spent time for enrichment in the CEO's office and was a very nice dog with people. He definitely needed to be managed around other dogs.

But the work in rehabilitation starts with building trust, and it moves at the pace of that trust. In a lot of cases, we are obviously not the start of the narrative their -- of their life story. And so that intervention of building trust, giving them a new life experience, and building on that, it's that assessment, and that work with them, that gives us the understanding of who will be ultimately placeable and who will require a sanctuary outcome or will not be placeable.

WALKER: How long is this journey to, I guess, reestablish that trust and tell us, you know, before we let you go, why it's such an important value, a core value for your organization to, you know, make all shelters no kill shelters.

BATTISTA: OK, well, the -- it depends. Obviously, when the assessment was done on the original Michael Vick dogs, half of them were able to go to other organizations straight to foster and adoption. That 22 that came to us, the timespan was different for every dog. It's an important -- it's important for us in our mission to end the killing of shelter pets as a management tool by 2025. It's important us because we believe that every animal has value and supporting shelters across the country and is the best way that we can actually support law enforcement as it relates to intervening in dog fighting busts.

And the reason for that is that the shelter is often where they're held is evidence. And we don't want space and the ability to provide for the dogs to impact and require the killing of other dogs and care. So it's an incredibly important to us as a basic social value that we do not kill our best friends, and that we support shelters and the best way that people can be involved is supporting their shelter directly.

When there is a bust, those dogs end up needing to be held as evidence which often means they put a disproportionate burden on the shelter and the shelter needs the other dogs and care to go to homes.

[12:55:09]

WALKER: We do not kill our best friends, words to live by. Judah Battista, thank you so much for all that you do, and for joining me this afternoon. Appreciate it.

BATTISTA: Yes, thank you.

WALKER: And a quick programming note, Anderson Cooper and Andy Cohen are back to ring in the New Year from Times Square New Year's Eve live with Anderson Cooper and Andy Cohen starts at 8:00 p.m. on CNN. Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:00:01]

WALKER: For a dying man, Dolly Parton just made his dreams come true.