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Biden Warns America Trump Is Threat To Democracy; FAA Grounds Some Boeing 737 MAX-9 Jets After Part of Cabin Blows Out; Trump & The Events Surrounding The Jan. 6th Insurrection; Trump Issues Cryptic Warning After Supreme Court Agrees To Decide Whether He Can Be Barred From Election Ballots; WAPO: Obama Raises Concerns Over Biden's Campaign; Blinken Travels To Middle East As Fears Of Wider Conflict Rise. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired January 06, 2024 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:11]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: All right, you are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington.

We begin the hour with Donald Trump railing against President Biden's assertion that Trump is a threat to democracy, calling it, quote, "pathetic fear mongering." On the campaign trail in Iowa, on the third anniversary of the insurrection at the U.S. Capitol, Trump is attempting to flip reality upside down, arguing that it's Biden who is democracy's greatest threat.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Remember after 2020, January 6th insurrection to undo the election in which more Americans had voted than any other in American history, America saw the threat posed to the country, and they voted him out.

Trump exhausted every legal avenue available to him to overturn the location. Every one. But the legal path just took Trump back to the truth. That I had won the election and he was the loser.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: That was President Biden yesterday talking about Donald Trump. As we've said many times, there is zero evidence that Biden or his allies interfered in the 2020 election. There's also no evidence that Biden had any involvement in the Department of Justice's investigation of Trump's alleged crimes.

Those lies from Trump come one day after Biden warned the country in his campaign launch speech to make no mistake about what a new Trump term of revenge and retribution would mean for the country.

Today on this third anniversary of January 6th, we have obtained new video from the attack on the Capitol showing two Republican members of Congress being shouted at by two rioters in a violent confrontation. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm at the Capitol hall.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Say something.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're trying to get in. We got the glass broken. These are all your patriots. This is our House. This is our House.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our house.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do you handle this, man?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Open the door, brother.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do you handle --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on, man, open the door.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're socialist pigs and --

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What's wrong with you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You better watch out, boys. You're socialist pigs.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can't hear what this guy's saying.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are you all saying? We're your friends. Yes. Why? No, we just got pushed up the front. I've never had a ticket in my life.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hold on, man.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ever.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm a Republican.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You want my license?

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For real, man. We're sick of it. And we're making it known that we're sick of it, OK? Would you -- huh?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I've never had people like this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Say it again?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've been a law enforcement in Texas for 30 years.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Talk a little louder. That's because you've never seen corruption like we have seen this last month.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm ashamed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I'm ashamed of my Congress people. They don't even stand up for it. You're getting in the way of my grandchildren and your grandchildren's freedom.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You need to back up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Freedom is at hand.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go find another door, everybody.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You understand we're fighting for you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You ought to put the guns down. But we're not going to do anything. You know?

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, guys, you got to breathe. Put the guns away.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You guys can get the same paycheck when the government gets replaced with real governors. This is not going to be good for your future, man.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are fake. It's all fake.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Here with us now to discuss is former Capitol police officer, Harry Dunn, who is now running for Congress as a Democrat in the state of Maryland. He's also the author of "Standing My Ground: A Capitol Police Officer's Fight for Accountability and Good Trouble After January 6th."

Harry, thanks very much for being with us. Appreciate it. Good to see you again.

OFFICE HARRY DUNN, OFFICER WHO DEFENDED CAPITOL ON JANUARY 6: You, too, man.

ACOSTA: What goes through your mind when you see this new video?

DUNN: You know, I've seen the stills and the images from that, and we had Republican members of Congress that were there, but I didn't know the depth of it, that they actually were speaking to them. I think that was Troy Nehls who said I'm ashamed right now. But his tone changed a little bit from that day until right now. ACOSTA: And it's kind of incredible, isn't it, Harry, that, I mean,

here we are three years later after January 6th and there's still new video coming out? New details coming out. Earlier today, the FBI announced there were three alleged rioters who were arrested after being on the run, being searched for quite some time. We're still learning new details about what happened that day.

DUNN: That's one of the first things I said. You know, what do you want the committee to find out. When I was asked that question, when the formation of the January 6th Committee, what do you want them to find out.

[16:05:05]

And one of my answers, we don't know what we don't know. And I did see the -- I don't know if the attorney general recently just put out, it wasn't Merrick Garland, it said, it looks like a renewed effort to get the people that are still outstanding from January 6th. And they released some new pictures of the pipe bomber which is one of the big unsolved questions to that. We need to get to the bottom of that day.

But it's encouraging to see the people in the Justice Department that are still pursuing that. But it's discouraging because it seems like every investigation that they're doing it's fueling the other side to call it a lie or whitewash it even more.

ACOSTA: Yes, and as we mentioned, Trump is out on the campaign trail today. He's saying that it's President Biden who is the threat to democracy. He's also repeating this claim that the January 6th defendants, people who have been arrested, charged, put in jail, he keeps calling them, quote, "hostages."

DUNN: They're hostages of him. No, they're in jail because they believe that the lies that he was spewing. Now obviously they're grown individuals who made decisions to go down there and commit crimes, but it kind of was a good nudge being emboldened by the arguably most powerful person on the planet. So they're hostages of his lies I guess if anything.

ACOSTA: And I have to ask you about this. I'm sure you saw this. There's a poll out in "The Washington Post" that shows more than a third of Republicans falsely believe this conspiracy theory that FBI operatives organized and encouraged the attack on the Capitol that day. It's been debunked over and over again. We in the press have said over and over again, this is not true. And yet people still believe it. What do you think about that?

DUNN: The Republicans are in power. They're conducting investigations. Investigated if they were (INAUDIBLE), OK, but now, it's just all talk. It's just all talk. It's just a talking point. If they had something, wouldn't you think kind of like with the Hunter Biden thing. If they had something, wouldn't you think that it would be out there by now? Maybe. I don't know. But investigations, truth is the best disinfectant. I've heard that a bunch of times. All right. Open up. Transparency. That's what you want.

ACOSTA: Yes.

DUNN: Until you got proof of anything, you got nothing.

ACOSTA: Yes. And let me ask you. This is what Trump had to say earlier today. Let's play it and talk about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have a man, he can't put two sentences together. He can't speak. He can't, although yesterday he tried to play tough guy. You know, I'm a threat to democracy. He's a threat to democracy because he's incompetent. I mean, he's incompetent.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

TRUMP: And a lot of people said, you know, that's going to be their theme that I'm a threat to democracy. I mean, they're screwing with our elections. They're doing things that nobody's ever done before in terms of weaponization with DOJ, with FBI.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Harry, you're running for Congress as a Democrat. President Biden is the leader of your party now. What's your response to that?

DUNN: What if President Biden said that he wasn't leaving office no matter the outcome of the election? Because that's what Trump wanted to do. How would they feel if that was the case if they felt he was the rightful, which they want to do now by making him a dictator. Well, excuse me, he wants to make himself that. Even if it's just for a day.

ACOSTA: Yes, what did you think when you heard him say that?

DUNN: I believed him. I believed him. A lot of people say, oh, it was nothing. It was just Trump being Trump. Trump being Trump he follows up on the things that he says. At what point do we not take him seriously? You know, he says a lot of things but he does a lot of those things, too. It's our own fault if we don't take him seriously.

ACOSTA: And you made this announcement yesterday. Let's play a little bit of that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DUNN: On this day, my role was as a Capitol police officer. I'm Harry Dunn. And that meant putting aside who I am. A father, a Marylander, a Democrat. Because I swore an oath to protect our Constitution. To protect our democracy. It's what allowed me to protect some members of Congress who I knew were bigots who helped fan the flames that started all of this.

I can announce I'm running for Congress. We can't ever let this happen again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Harry, why do you want to go up to Capitol Hill as a member of Congress and work with people on the other side of the aisle? I mean, you talk about them in your ad. You say that they're not dealing with the reality of the situation as to who caused this, who's behind this.

DUNN: Because like I just said in that last line, we can't ever let this happen again. I feel like for the last 15 plus years I've been a public servant of the Capitol Police. A man of the people. Protecting the people who protect the people who represent the people. So I don't think it gets any more public servicey than that.

[16:10:03]

But I want a seat at the table. Plain and simple. I want to be able to not be dismissed as this angry Capitol police officer, or angry Democrat, and angry leftist political activist. Now I'm about to be an angry your equal. An angry colleague of yours. I'll have a seat at the table and that means it's pushing back when they are out there spewing the lies that they continue to peddle that they know are lies, too.

Just look at the night of January 6th when they went back on the House floor. Steve Scalise, Leader McCarthy. They both blamed Trump for what happened that day. Drawing a blank. Mitch McConnell on the Senate floor. He blamed Trump. They had the ability to keep him off the ballot. They said they were done with him. They knew he was responsible for it but yet, they all backtracked and now they're all supporting him again.

ACOSTA: What do you think about this whole question of whether Trump should be on the ballot? Do you think he's an insurrectionist? Do you think he should be kept off the ballot or do you want to beat him on the ballot?

DUNN: So I could answer that with my personal bias towards him, but that doesn't fly in the court of law. So legally, he needs to have his day in court. He needs to have his day in court. He deserves that. That is his right. And when and if and when the court finds out, finds him responsible as being an insurrection supporter or instigator of an insurrection, then yes, the letter of the law of the Constitution is clear.

He doesn't need to -- it's plain and simple. He needs to have his day in court and then we go from there. But the law is simple and no one is above the law except for that person who thinks that he is.

ACOSTA: And, you know, the other thing that is apparently going to happen in a few days, there's been some talk that Trump may come to town and speak outside the courthouse or appear at the courthouse where this whole question of presidential immunity is going to be heard in federal court. What goes through your mind every time Donald Trump comes back to Washington? What do you think about that?

DUNN: Here we go again. Like, you know, here we go again. Don't worry, man. You'll have your chance in court real soon. You know, you don't have to do a rally there. They'll be calling you real soon to come. Once they sort out all the arguments and appeals. You'll have your day in court. Don't rush.

ACOSTA: And, all right, we talked a little bit about politics. Talked about how you're running for Congress. Let's pull that to the side for a moment and talk about Harry Dunn, human being. Everything that you went through on January 6th. Sergeant Ganell, Michael Fanone, your fellow officers who went through what you went through that day. What are your thoughts on this third anniversary of January 6th?

Life easier? Have things gotten better? Are you less focused on it? Are you more focused on it? What's going through your mind? What's happening to you?

DUNN: I'm glad you said anniversary because it gives me an opportunity to correct you or interject what I think that it is and I think that it's more of a remembrance and why, one, how we came so close to losing our democracy. Like, if those guys, the insurrectionists, the people who stormed the Capitol that day, if they succeeded that day, I don't believe we're sitting here having this conversation and America looks a lot different.

And obviously I'm just speculating but that's -- I think that we look a lot different at that point. And that's why I say remembrance because we need to remember how close we came to it. Additionally --

ACOSTA: You think people don't remember? You think --

DUNN: No, no, no.

ACOSTA: People don't want to remember?

DUNN: No, no, no. No, no. They may remember, but the right is attempting to whitewash it and replace it with their own ideas. Today, I had a couple of my co-workers call me, and even me (INAUDIBLE), the hate, the vitriol on Twitter or X today is as worse as I've ever seen it. It seemed like they were trying to claim this day as their own.

ACOSTA: You think this could happen again?

DUNN: Yes. Yes. One thing that prevents things from happening again is accountability and that has yet to be served yet. Donald Trump, he doesn't think he did anything wrong. So what's to stop him -- if he doesn't think he did anything wrong, why wouldn't he do it again? Especially because he hasn't been held accountable for it.

ACOSTA: All right, Harry Dunn, thanks a lot as always. Best of luck to you. Appreciate it.

DUNN: Harry Dunn for Congress. Want to find out more, donate to my campaign. Thanks for having me, Jim.

ACOSTA: You sound like a candidate already.

DUNN: You know what, I had to learn how to do one. I'm not one. But I have to learn real fast.

ACOSTA: You're going to get a crash course. DUNN: Yes. Thanks, Jim.

ACOSTA: Harry, thanks a lot. Appreciate it. All right, thanks for your time.

In the meantime, we have some breaking news to tell you about. A frightening emergency landing now pushing the FAA to temporarily ground more than 170 Boeing planes used by every major U.S. carrier. That's coming up.

[16:15:08]

And the nation's top diplomat is heading to the Middle East with an urgent request for leaders in the region as the threat of violence spreads there. We'll talk about that as well.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ACOSTA: Breaking news to tell you about. The FAA is ordering certain 377 MAX-9 planes to be immediately grounded until they are inspected. This comes after a terrifying episode Friday on board an Alaska Airlines flight that took off in Portland, Oregon.

You can look closely here and you can see a panel in the cabin, including a window, that is just gone. There was suddenly a hole in the side, sucking a boy's shirt right off of his body and out that hole in the side of the plane while his mother was holding on to him.

Now listen as the crews on the plane and on the ground responded to one another as this emergency was unfolding.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Alaska 1282, need to declare an emergency. We're descending down to 10,000. Just depressurized.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Alaska calling, descend roger, maintain one-zero thousand, and when able give me the nature of the emergency and your intentions.

[16:20:06]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Seattle, Alaska 1282, just depressurized. Need to declare an emergency. We need to descend down to 10,000.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: And Alaska Airlines is now reporting 18 of its MAX-9 planes have been inspected and returned to service. It's not clear yet if that was part of the FAA's mandate.

Let's discuss now with CNN Business editor-at-large, Richard Quest.

Richard, great to see you. I mean, this plane was airborne for only about 20 minutes before this part of the plane just blew out. What did the pictures tell you?

RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR AT LARGE: If you look closely, you can see exactly the hole is the shape of a door. And that is because that is where the Boeing, which builds this plane -- you see, some airlines want to put more passengers in and would need an extra emergency exit. For those like Alaska or United that don't need that extra emergency exit, they put in this plug, which is as you can see from the externals, when you look at the side of the plane, they plugged the hole which would normally be an emergency exit.

They put a piece of metal there and piece of fuselage. And that is what is blown out. And the investigation will be why. Because, Jim, the pure, simple, unalterable, worrying fact in this is that it was a brand-new plane. I mean, literally. You know, if this was a car, you'd be smelling the leather on the interior. It was a few months old with a couple of hundred, if that, cycles on it.

And for that to happen in these circumstances is deeply troubling and worrying because it suggests that something in the manufacturing process or in the certification or indeed the verification went badly wrong. Doors, plugs are not supposed to happen and fall off like this.

ACOSTA: Absolutely. I mean, that can't happen at all. And apparently, these planes are grounded while the FAA working with the National Transportation Safety Board investigate and inspect these planes. It's very early on in the process, but as you were just saying a few moments ago, is there something going on with this particular type of aircraft?

QUEST: No. It's not the type of aircraft. It's the relationship that Boeing has with its supplier. And it's been fraught with difficulties. There have been so-called fastener issues, which holds the plane together. None of which have been safety related. The FAA have made this quite clear. But the MAX as such has been bedeviled and the one real reason is this is Boeing's cash cow in a sense.

They've got 4,000 of them that they've got on back order. So for this to be happening will be deeply worrying for Boeing on one level. Firstly, how did it happen? A brand-new plane like this. Was it a manufacturing fault? Was it a materials fault? Was it an engineering fault? Was it an airline? You know, I mean, whatever it was.

And then the second thing is how do you keep confidence in this aircraft which was grounded several years ago after two crashes, has been delayed in production because of supplier problems and now has this issue?

ACOSTA: Yes.

QUEST: You know, Jim, I always used to say that passengers very quickly forget after a crash what plane they're on. Unfortunately in Boeing's case is the number of cases keep rising and passengers can't forget because they keep being reminded.

ACOSTA: Yes. I mean I think if you're getting on a plane now, you're going to look to see, am I on one of these kinds of planes or who built this plane. No question about it. But, Richard, I have to ask you. When you look at this video, and we can show it again to our viewers, this hole that is, this gaping hole on the side of this plane. We were just mentioning a few minutes ago, a boy's shirt apparently was sucked right off of his body as his mother was holding on to him. Could this have been a lot worse?

QUEST: Oh, what a question, Jim. Absolutely.

ACOSTA: Yes. Yes.

QUEST: This plane was at 16,000 feet. Now let's take it up to 30,000, 35,000 feet, and have it when the passengers have untied their seatbelts. They've untied the seatbelts and are walking around the cabin. Going to the bathroom. Chatting to neighbors. Whatever it might have been.

ACOSTA: Oh, boy.

QUEST: And this happens. Absolutely. And I'm not being -- it's not hyperbole to say you would have lost a passenger through that door. It is a miracle that nobody -- it was a miracle and luck that basically the plane was at 16,000 feet therefore the full depressurization of the aircraft had not happened as it would, say, for example, at 35,000 feet.

[16:25:06]

I am old enough to remember, I'm going make up the name of the aircraft. I think it was a lower airlines, where the tin can came off the top the 737.

ACOSTA: Right.

QUEST: Remember that, Jim?

ACOSTA: I do remember that. Who could forget that one?

QUEST: Right.

ACOSTA: Yes.

QUEST: And there's been another one where a cargo door blew out on a larger aircraft. In both of those cases, passengers were lost. So, you know, look. I'm the first person who normally says, you know, don't worry, it can't happen. But the reality here is if this had been just 10 or 15 minutes later and the seatbelt sign had been switched off, and people were moving around the cabin and there had somebody in those seats, absolutely, you would have lost a passenger.

ACOSTA: Yes. And so what needs to be done?

QUEST: Well, lightning rarely strikes twice except in the MAX's case, but then they know what the problem was there. It was this electronic system for controlling the aircraft pull end pass. What obviously -- the immediate thing that they're doing is inspecting. That last picture you just showed, that's it there. Shows the perfect door. Right?

ACOSTA: Right.

QUEST: That's where the plug goes where there would be an emergency exit if it was on a plane with more passengers. They've obviously had to check every 7379 that has that, which is what they're doing. Takes (INAUDIBLE). Planes will be returned to service. But I think they're going to have to go one stage deeper. Because once they've determined why that plug door blew off, they will need to make sure that there's nothing systemic in any of the parts of the aircraft with similar things. Baggage doors.

ACOSTA: Right.

QUEST: Anything else where you could have a similar type of arrangement or fasteners, and then they'll just have to work out whose fault it was. And, you know, be clear on this. Fault we are talking about. These things do not happen without fault. And it will either be manufacturing, engineering, assembly. Somewhere in there will be the reasons why this happened. It may be rare, but the fact it could happen in an aircraft barely three months old will be troubling in the extreme.

ACOSTA: All right, Richard Quest. Thanks as always. We knew you were the right person to go to on this. So really appreciate the time. Thanks so much.

QUEST: Thank you, sir.

ACOSTA: All right. Coming up, a new report on concerns from President Obama -- former President Obama about the upcoming election and some advice that he's giving to his former vice president, Joe Biden. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:32:13]

ACOSTA: Three years since the January 6th attack on the capital, it's important to remember what happened that day.

Donald Trump's attempt to overturn the 2020 election ended with an outburst of astonishing political violence that interrupted the peaceful of transfer of power for the first time in this nation's history.

And his efforts to mislead Americans about Joe Biden's victory started well before he even lost.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They're going to try and steal the election. Look at this crap. The only way they can win Pennsylvania, frankly, is to cheat on the ballot.

(END VIDEO CLIP) ACOSTA: That rhetoric led his followers to a violent attempt to overthrow the Democratic process. In that infamous speech on the Ellipse earlier in the day on January 6th, Trump egged on a massive crowd of his supporters to take action.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: And after this, we're going to walk down -- and I'll be there with you -- but we're going to walk down to the capitol.

You'll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength and you have to be strong.

We fight like hell. And if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: The outcome of Trump supporters fighting like hell on January 6th was broadcast to the world. A violent mob smashed through barriers and brutally injured dozens of police officers. Nine Americans died, including four officers who died by suicide after that violent day.

During his speech, Trump even turned the crowd against his own vice president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: And, Mike Pence, I hope you're going to stand up for the good of our Constitution and for the good of our country.

(CHEERING)

TRUMP: And if you're not, I'm going to be very disappointed in you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Not long after that, the violent mob erected a gallows outside the U.S. capitol.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(CHANTING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Calling for the execution of Mike Pence for performing his constitutional duty to certify the election results.

Cassidy Hutchison, a former senior aide to White House chief of staff, Mark Meadows, talked about Trump's reaction to those threats in her testimony before Congress.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CASSIDY HUTCHINSON, FORMER SENIOR AID TO WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF MARK MEADOWS: They were literally calling for the vice president to be hung. And Mark had responded something to the effect of, you heard it, Pat, he thinks Mike deserves it. He doesn't think they're doing anything wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: According to the House investigation, Trump sat in the White House for four hours watching the carnage, chaos and desecration of the nation's capital play out on national television.

He did not call in the National Guard. He did not immediately heed his allies' pleas to condemn the violence.

He finally urged the rioters to go home after the mob reached the capital in a recorded message hours later that was punctuated with more lies.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[16:35:02]

TRUMP: This was a fraudulent election but we can't play into the hands of these people. We have to have peace. So go home. We love you. You're very special.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: In the days after the attack, Washington was momentarily united with many of the president's closest allies issuing harsh rebukes of his conduct and inaction.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): The president bears responsibility for Wednesday's attack on Congress by mob rioters.

He should have immediately denounced the mob when he saw what was unfolding.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): All I can say is count me out. Enough is enough.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: But three years later, some of those same people are endorsing Trump, including Kevin McCarthy and Lindsey Graham.

And the Justice Department continues to prosecute those responsible, insurrectionists that Trump refers to as hostages.

So far, more than 1,200 people have been charged with committing crimes on January 6th. Writing that it's, quote, "Resolve has not and will not wane."

Just this morning, for example, the FBI arrested three defendants in Florida who had evaded law enforcement after being charged for crimes related to January 6th.

As of today, hundreds of men and women who attacked the capitol have been found guilty of federal crimes and sentenced to jail time.

And again, we should note, on the campaign trail, Trump continues to refer to them as hostages.

As for the police who defended the capitol, dozens of wounded officers continue to battle PTSD and physical injuries.

Despite those facts and exhaustive investigations from multiple federal agencies, one-quarter of Americans wrongly believe the FBI definitively and probably organized the riot. That did not happen.

As for former President Trump, new polling indicates that, as the years go on, fewer and fewer Americans hold him responsible for the insurrection.

The same former president who refuses to tell the truth about the 2020 election and about January 6th and is on his way to becoming the nominee of his party once again.

Let's discuss that now with CNN senior political commentators, Scott Jennings and Paul Begala.

Scott, let me start with you.

You know, oddly enough, Trump is out on the campaign trail today talking about the Civil War.

Let's listen to that and talk about it on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: The Civil War was so fascinating, so horrible. It was so horrible. But so fascinating. It was -- I don't know. It was just different. I just find it -- I'm so attracted to seeing it. So many mistakes were made.

So, that was something that I think could have been negotiated, to be honest with you. I think you could have negotiated that. All the people died.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Scott, why didn't Abraham Lincoln negotiate our way out of the Civil War?

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: He may not be familiar with all the compromises and negotiations that happened in the run up to the Civil War, which, obviously, you can go back and read a history book about that.

So I -- you know, I think his gear is always to say, I could have fixed any situation. You hand me the Civil War, I could have negotiated it. You hand me this business deal, I could have negotiated it.

In this particular case, I think all the negotiations had been exhausted, and slavery, the issues had finally come to a head and, obviously, we know what happened, the union won.

ACOSTA: And, Paul, you know, on this January 6th, I mean, it's odd, as I mentioned, that Trump is talking about the Civil War on January 6th. But on this January 6th, he's calling Biden the threat to democracy.

PAUL BEGALA, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Right. With Mr. Trump, every attack is a confession. You always know. Right? Soon, he'll be accusing Joe Biden of paying off a porn star. Right?

Anything he accuses his opponents of doing, he does so because he knows he himself is guilty. And it's pretty obvious and it's pretty transparent.

What's sad is that it works with the MAGA Republicans. The poll you showed, it proves that Lincoln, who, call me crazy, was actually a better president than Mr. Trump.

Lincoln was right. You can fool some of the people all the time. They're called MAGA Republicans. Not all of them. But those MAGA extremists, they will just believe anything that this con man tells them.

I thought Officer Harry Dunn, when he was on here -- and I hope he does well for his campaign for congressman of Maryland.

I thought it was telling that instead of attacking even the rioters, he said they're kind of hostages to Trump's lies. They're responsible for their conduct. They're adults. But they wouldn't have been there, Officer Dunn told you, if they had not been lied to by this man.

I think that's a really telling thing. There's a lot of people in this country who are the victims of Mr. Trump's lies, most importantly, his supporters.

ACOSTA: Scott, what do you think about that?

JENNINGS: Yes. He has misled them about this. And there's lots of polling that shows Republicans in just a far different place about their perceptions of January 6th than Independents and Democrats.

[16:40:02]

And so that is going to continue to be the case. And I suspect that chasm is going to grow even wider.

I'm a political analyst here. To me, the political impact of this is it's poison, it's political poison.

I mean, understand, Independents in this country, Democrats, people who might otherwise be unhappy with Joe Biden about this, that or the other, they really do not like anything that happened on January 6th.

And they do not like the explanations in the aftermath to try to rationalize it or so on and so forth. It's electoral poison.

And I think, honestly, it's why you see Joe Biden talking about it today.

Yes, he has lots of other political problems. But he knows two things. He knows Independents don't like what happened on that day. And he knows he need to talk about something other than the economy and, as a third thing, rally his own party.

That's the issue that does it for him. At least right now.

ACOSTA: Yes.

Paul, Biden gave that big speech yesterday up in Pennsylvania. They were supposed to do it today but, because of this bad weather, they moved it to yesterday.

What did you make of that speech? Because it came after I think some weeks of hand wringing inside the Democratic party that Biden isn't talking about this forcefully enough. Did he do it? Did he pull it off?

BEGALA: I thought this was Biden at his best. And you know, he -- Mr. Trump and the Republicans set the bar very low for him.

They keep saying, oh, he can't complete his sentence. I watched that speech from beginning to end. He was powerful, forceful, strong. He was accurate. All fact checkers, they can go through every word of that and I don't think he got a single thing wrong. I thought he did a magnificent job.

Here's the question I want to know. Will there be follow through?

OK, the vice president today came out and said that's a good sign.

All the surrogates should be out there. Every Democratic member of Congress, Senate, the governors, the county commissioners, dogcatchers. This is what it's like to have a party in array. And so they all need to get behind this. I think he's right.

And there was a line in there that caught my eye. To me, it's the most important, politically. Donald Trump's campaign is about him, President Biden said, not America, not you.

That is a great way to attack. Instead of simply attacking his character, which I think is loathsome, he's attacking what he has done and failed to do to you. He hasn't helped you.

He never built his stupid wall. Opioid deaths went from about 70,000 a year to about 90,000 a year. We lost a million souls to Covid. We lost millions of jobs. How he affected you.

And all he's running for is himself. His grievance, lies about the election, his legal problems, his sweetheart deals with China, his tax cuts for his fellow billionaires. That's the way to go at Trump, is he's in it for himself, not simply,

oh, he's a bad man, a bad character. It's a different attack.

ACOSTA: And, Scott, getting back to all valid points from Paul but I also wanted to ask about this case that Biden was attempted to prosecute yesterday about Trump just being a threat to democracy.

And Trump made his comment about the Supreme Court yesterday.

Let's take a listen to that and talk about it on the other side.

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TRUMP: And they're saying, oh, Trump owns the Supreme Court. He owns it. He owns it. If they make a decision for him, it will be terrible. It will ruin their reputations.

And I just hope we get fair treatment because, if we don't, our country's in big, big trouble. Does everybody understand what I'm saying?

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ACOSTA: Scott, what does he mean by that? Does everybody understand what I'm saying? If they don't give us the result we want, our country's going to be -- or if we don't get fair treatment, he says, our country's going to be in big, big trouble.

JENNINGS: Yes, I think -- sure. I think he's echoing what I've heard a lot of people say, including some prominent Democrats, like our colleague, David Axelrod, that if they somehow throw him off the ballot in this election, then the country would be ripped apart politically.

I think David is right about that. I think lots of people have made that point. And I think that's the point Donald Trump is making.

And I agree with him. I think that the Supreme Court should leave him on the ballot and I think the American people ought to settle this election.

I think, if it were settled any other way -- and the only other way to settle it otherwise would be to bar him from the election -- that people would legitimately be very, very unhappy and upset about their choices being taken away.

So I think that the court is likely to leave him on the ballot and this will be a moot issue soon enough.

And they need to -- they need to turn this election over to the American people and let them make this decision once and for all.

ACOSTA: Paul, I wanted to ask you, as we're running out of time here, according to the "Washington Post," Obama, former President Obama had a private lunch with President Biden where he said that the president's campaign needs to be empowered to make decisions without clearing them with the White House.

I think he also has advocated that Biden sort of ramp up the rhetoric a little bit when it comes to Trump's threat to democracy, which is what he did yesterday.

So maybe the president is listening to his former boss. What did you think about that?

[16:45:02]

BEGALA: I agreed with everything that came out of the Obama camp. President Obama, he knows something about winning an election in this country, OK?

And --

ACOSTA: Your folks did, too, back in the Clinton days.

BEGALA: And I hope and I believe -- you're right. We're seeing a course correction. I hate that it leaked as a former White House -- I know journalists love this.

ACOSTA: Yes, yes.

BEGALA: I believe in the Obama people and the Biden people. They agree. They're angry the story ran. But I'm sure it's well reported. I'm sure it's accurate, right?

But this is the tension between my old side of the line and yours.

ACOSTA: Sure, sure.

BEGALA: But President Biden needs to listen. He needs to ramp up the attacks. He did yesterday.

He needs to stop running ads that say I did a great job and start running ads that say this guy is a threat. To demoracy, to your abortion rights, to Social Security. Everything has to be Trump. Everything.

I have a seven-step plan for Biden's re-election. And you can memorize them because I put them in alphabetical order: Attack, attack, attack, attack, attack, attack. OK?

He needs to listen to Barack Obama and stop running these ads saying, oh, I did such a great job and the economy's so great. I think it's true.

But I'm not a swing voter. He needs to get those swing voters who are appalled by Mr. Trump and make it impossible for them to support Donald Trump and push them into Biden's camp.

ACOSTA: Scott, is this the election where maybe it's the democracy, stupid? Is that what's going on here?

JENNINGS: Well, Paul's laying out a very valid strategy for someone who cannot run on his record because the American people think he's failed at a number of things.

But we did learn something in the midterms in 2022. We all sat around as analysts assuming that Independent voters, swing voters were going to turn against the party in power because of how they felt about the economy because they thought that Biden had failed and so on and so forth.

And they did not do it because the Democrats prosecuted a case along the line of what Paul is talking about. That's what Biden is doing.

In fact, he's also doing the same thing they did in 2022 and that's try and guarantee that Republicans nominate the people who are going to allow them to prosecute that case.

I view Biden's moves this week as an endorsement of: I want you to nominate Trump. Please send me Trump.

We're about to start voting and he wants Republicans to know he'd like run against Donald Trump and he'd like to run him on these issues.

And you know, the thing is, so would Donald Trump. He'd like to have this debate on these issues because he thinks he's going to win it.

I don't know what's going to happen but do we have a little bit of empirical data due to the 2022 midterms and Democrats jumped up and surprised Republicans.

ACOSTA: All right, Jennings, Bagala, gentlemen, thank you very much. Appreciate it.

And we'll be right back.

JENNINGS: Thank you.

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[16:51:58]

ACOSTA: Today, U.S. Central Command is announcing a U.S. ship shot down yet another drone over the southern Red Sea. They say it was launched from a Houthi-controlled area of Yemen and it was shot down in self-defense. No injuries or damage were reported.

This is just the latest in a series of incidents this week threatening to create instability in the Middle East. It all comes as Secretary of State Tony Blinken is back in the region with a key focus on stopping a wider conflict.

Let's discuss with CNN political and national security analyst, David Sanger. He's also a national security correspondent for the "New York Times."

David, thanks so much for coming back on the program.

What's your reaction to what has taken place? This drone being shot down? What's going on? DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL & NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, Jim,

the drone was sort of the least of it for all the things that have been going on in the past week.

Think of the list. We had the Israelis kill a mosque leader with a missile in Lebanon. We have the United States sink three Houthi ships. The Houthis, of course, being Iranian-controlled, armed, financed. And killing 10 of the Houthi fighters when they had opened fire on a us Navy helicopter.

We had the U.S. shoot missiles at and kill a militant in Iraq, in Baghdad. A place that President Biden usually does not like to be conducting military operations. That's just in the past week.

And see, listening to your last panel, Jim, about the huge debate we're having underway about democracy, which we need to have for sure. It's the critical issue of this election.

The other critical issue of this election is we've got two active wars underway here in which we're trying to keep the United States forces out of direct combat.

ACOSTA: Yes. No question about it. Whether or not the U.S., the Biden administration can keep a lid on both of those wars, keep them contained, that is a huge, looming issue this year. No question about it.

And to that point, the secretary of state is back in the region with a key focus on stopping that from occurring. What do you think? What are the stakes here?

SANGER: Well, the stakes are high.

And I would have to say that, while Secretary Blinken is on this sort of multi-city, multi-country trip, the biggest factors about whether the U.S. will be able to stay out of direct combat probably are not within his control or the control of those who he's visiting, with the exception of the Israelis.

He was in Turkey. He's making his way around to a number of the Arab states, Qatar and others, in an effort to win a pause in the fighting that might allow a release of more of the hostages, Israeli and some remaining dual citizens of the U.S.

[16:55:06]

But the fact of the matter is that, right now, the key player is Iran. It's Iran that controls most of the fighting groups here, from Hezbollah in Lebanon to the Houthis, as we were just discussing, to Hamas.

And in the end, the question is, is Iran really determined, as we think, right now, they are, to act with at least some limits, so they don't get into a direct combat with the U.S., that they probably would not come out well in?

ACOSTA: Absolutely.

All right. David Sanger, thanks for joining us this evening. Really appreciate the time. We'll keep our eyes on all of this, as I know you will as well. Appreciate it.

SANGER: Great to be with you.

ACOSTA: All right, thank you.

In the meantime, the Justice Department is sharing a piece of new, harrowing video from inside the U.S. capitol during the January 6th insurrection as the nation marks three years since that day. More on that, next.

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