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Justice Department Releases Dramatic New View from January 6; Hundreds of Men and Women Capitol Rioters Found Guilty; Trump Rails Against Biden's Campaign Launch Speech; Part of an Alaskan Airlines Cabin Blowing Out; One-on-One with Passenger of Terrifying Flight; FAA Grounds Some Boeing 737 Max-9 Jets; Interview with Passenger on Alaska Airlines Flight Stephanie King. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired January 06, 2024 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:00:00]
JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR: You're live in the "CNN Newsroom." I'm Jim Acosta in Washington. Good evening.
Tonight, three years after the attack on the U S Capitol, the Justice Department has released shocking new video of the violent insurrection in this never-before-seen footage. Two rioters aggressively confront two Republican members of Congress who are barricaded inside the house chamber. We want to show you the entirety of this shocking video, but we want to warn you some of this footage is disturbing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm at the Capitol's door, on the west side of the building, we're trying to get in, we got the glass broken, these are all your patriots. This is our house. This is our house.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Our house.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our house.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do you handle this thing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Open the door, brother.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do you handle it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on, man, open the door.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They're socialist pigs, you're not jail patriots.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do you handle it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What's wrong with you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do you handle it? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We got kids. We got kids we're fighting for today. America's my son. So, you better watch out, boy. They're socialist pigs.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can't hear what this guy's saying.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, you all. What are you all saying? We're your friends. Why?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't think they're going to gas this --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, we just got pushed up the front. I've never had a ticket in my life.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hold on, man.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ever. You want my license number? We're real American citizens who are sick of this. And we're making it knowing that we're sick of it. OK? Huh?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I've never had people act this way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Say it again.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've been in law enforcement in Texas for 30 years.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Talk a little louder.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I've never seen people act this way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's because you've never seen corruption like we have seen this last month.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm ashamed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I'm ashamed of my congresspeople. They don't even stand up for it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're giving away my children.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My grandchildren and your grandchildren's freedom.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You need to back up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Freedom is at hand.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go find another door, everybody.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you understand we're fighting for you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You ought to put the guns down. You're not going to do anything. You know? That's dumb.
Hey, guys, you got to breathe. Put the gun away.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You guys can get the same paycheck when the government gets replaced with real governors.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is not going to be good for your future, man. They are fake. It's all fake.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: Three years since the January 6th attack on the Capitol, it's important to remember what happened that day. Donald Trump's attempt to overturn the 2020 election ended with an outburst of astonishing political violence that interrupted the peaceful transfer of power for the first time in this nation's history in his efforts to mislead Americans about Joe Biden's victory started well before he lost.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: They're going to try and steal the election. Look at this crowd. The only way they can win Pennsylvania, frankly, is to cheat on the ballot.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: That rhetoric led his followers to a violent attempt to overthrow the democratic process. And that infamous speech at the ellipse earlier in the day on January 6th, Trump egged on a massive crowd of his supporters who have gathered in the nation's capital to take action.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: And after this, we're going to walk down, and I'll be there with you. We're going to walk down to the Capitol. You'll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength, and you have to be strong. We fight like hell, and if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: The outcome of Trump supporters fighting like hell on January 6th was broadcast to the world. The violent mob smashed through barriers and brutally injured dozens of police officers. Nine Americans died, including four officers who died by suicide after that violent day.
During his speech, Trump even turned the crowd against his own vice president.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: And Mike Pence, I hope you're going to stand up for the good of our constitution and for the good of our country. And if you're not, I'm going to be very disappointed in you.
(END VIDEO CLIP) ACOSTA: Not long after that, the violent mob erected gallow outside the U.S. Capitol.
[19:05:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CROWD: Hang Mike Pence. Hang Mike Pence. Hang Mike Pence. Hang Mike Pence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: And they called for the execution of Mike Pence for performing his constitutional duty to certify the election results.
Cassidy Hutchinson, a former senior aide to White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, talked about Trump's reaction to those heinous threats in her testimony before Congress.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASSIDY HUTCHINSON, FORMER WHITE HOUSE AIDE: They're literally calling for the vice president to be effing hung. And Mark had responded something to the effect of, you heard him, Pat. He thinks Mike deserves it. He doesn't think they're doing anything wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: According to that January 6th Committee investigation, Trump sat in the White House for four hours watching the carnage, chaos, and desecration of the nation's capital playing out on national television. He did not call the National Guard. He did not immediately heed his allies' pleas to condemn the violence. He did finally urge the rioters to go home after the mob breached the Capitol in a recorded message hours later that was punctuated with more lies.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: This was a fraudulent election, but we can't play into the hands of these people. We have to have peace. So, go home. We love you. You're very special.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: Immediately after the attack on the Capitol, Washington was momentarily united with many of the president's closest allies issuing harsh rebukes of his conduct and inaction.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY, (R-CA): The president bears responsibility for Wednesday's attack on Congress by mob rioters. He should have immediately denounced the mob when he saw what was unfolding.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM, (R-SC): All I can say is count me out. Enough is enough. (END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: Three years later, some of those same people are endorsing Trump, including Kevin McCarthy and Lindsey Graham.
The Justice Department continues to prosecute those responsible insurrectionists that Trump refers to as hostages. So, far more than 1,200 people have been charged with committing crimes on January 6th, writing that it's "resolve has not and will not wane."
Just this morning, the FBI arrested three defendants in Florida who had evaded law enforcement after being charged for crimes related to January 6th. As of today, hundreds of men and women who attacked the Capitol have been found guilty of federal crimes and sentenced to as for -- sentenced to -- prison sentences for those crimes.
As for the police who defended the Capitol, dozens of wounded officers continue to battle PTSD and physical injuries. Despite those facts, exhaustive investigations from federal agencies across the federal government, one quarter of Americans wrongly believe the FBI definitely or probably organized and encouraged the riot.
As for Former President Donald Trump, new polling indicates that as the years go on, fewer and fewer Americans hold him responsible for the insurrection. The same former president who refuses to tell the truth about the 2020 election about January 6th and who is on his way to becoming the nominee of his party once again.
Let's discuss more now with CNN Senior Political Analyst and Senior Editor at "The Atlantic" Ron Brownstein. Ron, thanks very much for being here. I hope you -- you'll pardon the recap, but don't want people to lose sight or forget what took place that day. And obviously, we couldn't put it all in there. There was so much that took place.
RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST AND SENIOR EDITOR, "THE ATLANTIC": Yes.
ACOSTA: And we're still learning new things, Ron, to this day. I want to get your reaction to that new January 6th footage that we just played at the top of the hour. You saw that video as we were playing. It portrays, it shows a January 6th rioters face-to-face with these Republican members of Congress, looking through that busted window outside the house floor. And yet, you have had four years now some members of the House Republican Conference insisted that it was just a tour of the Capitol --
BROWNSTEIN: Yes.
ACOSTA: -- that they were nonviolent and so on.
BROWNSTEIN: Yes. Look, I mean, the rewrite of history, the attempt to whitewash history led by Trump has been substantially successful within the Republican Party.
I mean, they have ostracized those who have told the truth about what happened and insisted on getting to the truth of what happened, like Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger and many of those, as you noted, who were initially critical, have fallen into line as Trump continues to portray that day as, you know, one full with love and the rioters and insurrectionists now as hostages.
It's -- I think really important to understand that that is not all of this. All of this whitewashing of history and rewriting of history is not only about looking back. It is also about looking forward. It's not just trying to undo the stain of that day, it is basically sending a signal to Trump supporters that he considers what happened then an entirely appropriate response to him losing an election. And I think the message of there for 2024 is pretty clear and pretty ominous.
[19:10:00]
ACOSTA: And Trump has been out on the campaign trail this weekend talking about January 6th. He's whitewashing. He's rewriting history. He's lying about what took place that day. Let's listen to what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We have the hostages, the J6 hostages, I call them. Nobody's been treated ever in history so badly as those people. But those J6 hostages going to jail for 20 years and 18 years, and it'll go down as one of the saddest things in the history of our country.
By the way, there was Antifa and there was FBI. There were a lot of other people there, too, leading the charge.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: Yes. So, Ron, to this day, even though the FBI stuff, the Antifa stuff, that has been debunked over and over again, fact-checked over and over again, those are lies, that is not true, he does -- he still says it out on the campaign trail, and there are still some people in his base who believe it.
BROWNSTEIN: Yes, a lot. Look, he's pushing on an open door here. It's not that he's like some -- it's not only because he's an effective demagogue, it's because that is what a significant portion of his core supporters want to believe.
You know, I still go back to the speech he gave in Georgia right before January 6th, when he was campaigning for the Republicans Senate candidates in that runoff where he was in front of an all-white -- virtually all white rural audience and he said, this is our country, and they are trying to take it away from us through rigging and stealing.
I mean, you know, the idea of election fraud is braided into his broader message that the combination of demographic change and cultural change is basically displacing the real America, the real Americans. And so, it's a kind of a very short leap for him to make this argument. But it is important, Jim, to reaffirm and to note in polling, this week in "The Washington Post," polling out literally in the last, I believe, a couple hours from CBS, most Americans view this as an insurrection. Most Americans view it as an attempt to overthrow the -- overturn the election and overthrow the government.
And it's really important that roughly -- whatever question you ask, roughly one-fifth to one quarter, sometimes even 30 percent of Republicans say they recognize that what happened on January 6th and indeed what happened more broadly after the election from Trump was inappropriate and dangerous, and it remains a critical question what those voters do if he is the nominee.
They have enormous power to affect the trajectory of their party in terms of its willingness to whitewash and accept all of this. So far, they've shown no inclination to use it. We'll see if that changes as the year progresses.
ACOSTA: Yes. And, Ron, we're already starting to see how the head-to- head matchup between Trump and Biden is emerging, even though we're just heading into the Iowa caucuses in nine or 10 days. But yesterday, the president went after Trump, called him a threat to democracy. Today, Trump responded. Let's listen to this and talk about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Did you see him? He was stuttering through the whole thing. He's going up by -- I've got a -- he's a threat to democracy. I'm a threat. They've weaponized government. He's saying, I'm a threat to democracy. He's a threat to democracy. Wow. Couldn't read the word.
Yesterday, he tried to play tough guy, you know, I'm a threat to democracy. He's a threat to democracy because he's incompetent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: So, you know, Trump has descended to, I know you are, but what am I? But, you know, to the point you were just begging, Ron, and maybe we can expand on this further, it seems to me when Trump talks about this January 6th stuff and he tries to pull the wool over people's eyes. He's really just talking to his narrow base. He's not expanding his electorate. He is not expanding the base of voters that he needs to win in November.
Whereas the president, when he talks about Trump being a threat to democracy, that was a successful message in 2020 with independent swing district voters. That was a successful message in 2022 in the midterms, and it is almost a message that works better for Biden among independents and swing voters versus for Trump.
BROWNSTEIN: And it's a message that's going to have to work for Biden. I mean, I think we've talked about this before.
ACOSTA: Yes.
BROWNSTEIN: I mean, you look at President Biden's approval rating, you know, where he is beginning the election year, is at the low end of what we've seen in presidents since World War II.
I -- you know, more voters say they trust Trump on the economy. More voters say they trust Trump on the border. But a lot of those same conditions were present in 2022 as well. And Democrats did well in the states that will decide the 2024 election, because even an unusually high percentage of voters who are dissatisfied with Biden or discontented about the economy still would not vote for the Republican alternative. In many cases, the Trump hand selected Republican alternative, because they viewed them as a threat to their values and their rights and to democracy itself.
[19:15:00]
And if there is a path to a second term for Joe Biden, it is largely along that same road. Because there -- as I said, the polling shows that most Americans recognize that what happened, not only on January 6th, but after the election of 2020, was a threat to democracy as we've known it and they are very uneasy about going down that road again.
It doesn't eliminate every other concern. There are a lot of people worried about the inflation, crime, border, other issues, but that headwind for Trump and it's a tailwind for Biden really is critical to his hopes of winning a second term.
ACOSTA: All right. Ron, great to talk to you as always. Thanks so much.
BROWNSTEIN: Thanks for having me.
ACOSTA: All right. Appreciate it. Still ahead. Part of an Alaskan Airlines cabin blowing out, leaving a giant hole in the plane in mid- flight. Passengers say the incident ripped a boy's shirt right off of his body and out into the sky. His mother was able to hold on to him and they survived.
But up next, we'll talk with this woman who was on this flight to hear firsthand what happened. That's coming up in just a few moments. Stay with us.
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[19:20:00]
ACOSTA: Federal officials are ordering the immediate grounding and inspection of some Boeing 737 Max 9 passenger jets just one day after an alarming emergency on board an Alaska Airlines flight that had just taken off from Portland, Oregon.
Passengers say part of the cabin suddenly blew open creating a gaping hole on the side of the plane. You can see it right there. And we just got more video of what the terrifying moment was like for passengers. You can see a woman wearing an oxygen mask there. That is Stephanie King and she joins us now on the phone.
Stephanie, thank you so much for being on the phone with us. Take us what was -- you know, take us inside. What was going on inside that plane when all of this happened.
STEPHANIE KING, PASSENGER ON ALASKA AIRLINES FLIGHT: Yes. Thank you for having me. It was really, really scary as you can imagine.
Initially when the piece flew off, it was -- there was almost multiple explosions and it at first felt like all of the air from outside rushed into the cabin and particles were flying everywhere. I'm not sure what that was, if it was ice or debris from the plane itself. But it came forward and then it got sucked back out very dramatically.
And that's when the oxygen masks came down and, you know, your instinct kicks in at that point. You've heard the spiel a thousand times to put your own mask on and then assist others. And so, that's what I did. And then, we just sat there and waited and hoped that everything was OK when we kind of knew it wasn't OK.
ACOSTA: Wow. And I understand you were drafting a final text message or some text messages to your loved ones when all of this was happening because you were worried that you might not make it.
KING: Yes. I didn't know what to do other than to take video and document the whole thing and type out messages to my boyfriend and my mom and just let them know that something has happened, I don't know what and I'm not sure what's going to happen next. And I just told them that I loved them and I was hoping for the best, but I really didn't know.
ACOSTA: It's so scary. And we heard about a woman screaming about her son's shirt being ripped off and she had to hold on to her son. Did you catch any of that? Do we know what happened with that?
KING: I didn't see it, but I definitely heard her. She brushed forward a few rows when the thing happened so that she would be further away from the hole. And she was screaming, my son, my son, my son. And, you know, I. wasn't sure if her son had gone out or if he was injured, but they just kept saying, the son, the son, and the flight attendant went back to check on him and they verified that he thankfully was OK but had lost his shirt and his skin was irritated from the cold and from the wind and everything. And it was insane.
ACOSTA: And what was it like when this piece of the door or a piece of the plane came off and left this big hole? Was it starting -- did it happen gradually, or did it just pop off? And what were those initial moments like? Could you feel the air being sucked out of the plane?
KING: Yes, it was sudden. It was boom. And then air in, air out, and then so much wind. So much wind that you couldn't hear yourself think essentially. But you couldn't -- we couldn't hear the flight attendant's message to us. She was talking to us and we couldn't understand what she was saying. It was very scary.
And nobody knew what to do. So, we all just froze. Everybody froze and I'm sure prayed and hoped for the best and I'm sure other people typed out messages and thought that this could be it. You just don't know.
ACOSTA: And what was it like when the plane landed? I have to assume there was just jubilation inside the cabin and I suppose you have to say hats off to the crew for getting everybody through that situation?
KING: Yes, it was -- everybody clapped. I was just stunned and it was unreal. It was as if it hadn't happened to us, even though it did. And yes, absolutely hats off to the pilots and the flight attendants, they did an incredible job of keeping us safe. And thankfully, we were able to land with no major difficulties because that was definitely a concern.
[19:25:00]
ACOSTA: Yes. But I have to assume -- we don't want to let the airline off the hook here. I have to assume you guys have some big questions --
KING: Oh, yes.
ACOSTA: -- what happened?
KING: Oh, yes. What happened and what is going on with these planes? Why are there issues with this specific type of plane? You know, it -- life is dangerous enough as it is, and we're putting our hands in the -- our lives in the hands of these manufacturers, and it's concerning that things are going wrong.
ACOSTA: Yes. Well, Stephanie King, we're so glad that it turned out the way it did, and everybody is safe. And thank you so much for telling us about what happened. I know that this is probably not an easy thing to do, but maybe it helped a little bit to talk it out with us.
KING: Yes.
ACOSTA: Thanks for your time.
KING: Yes. Thank you. Take care.
ACOSTA: All right. You too. We appreciate it. We'll be right back.
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[19:30:08]
ACOSTA: We're learning more tonight about the hospitalization of Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin this week, which was not publicly disclosed by the Pentagon for four days. Arlette Saenz is in Delaware for us.
And Arlette, you have some new information on who knew what over at the White House?
ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jim, CNN has learned that President Biden himself was not aware of Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin's hospitalization. A source familiar with the matter says that it was not until National Security adviser, Jake Sullivan briefed the president on Thursday after Sullivan himself had learned about the hospitalization on Thursday afternoon.
This comes after Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin was hospitalized at Walter Reed Medical Center after an elective medical procedure and then experiencing some complications.
He entered the hospital on Monday, and it was not until Friday that the Pentagon released this information publicly. They still have disclosed very little information about what caused this or how serious it was, but Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin tonight did release a statement saying that he was on the mend, looking forward to get back to work at the Pentagon and he acknowledged some of the questions about transparency regarding this matter.
He said: "I also understand the media concerns about transparency and I recognize I could have done a better job ensuring the public was appropriately informed. I commit to doing better." He added, "But this is important to say, this was my medical procedure and I take full responsibility for my decisions about disclosure."
Typically, senior administration and military officials will disclose that they are hospitalized about within 24 hours of that happening, but all of this is coming at a critical time when you think about the US involvement in the war in Israel and Hamas, also as Ukraine continues their battle against Russia, then there are other issues and concerns about the Israeli conflicts boiling over into a larger regional issue.
There's still many questions remain about his hospitalization and whether even President Biden and Austin haven't had a chance to speak just yet.
ACOSTA: All right, Arlette Saenz, thank you very much.
Let's discuss with CNN military analyst, retired Lieutenant General, Mark Hertling.
I know General Hertling, my producers are telling me you're shaking your head during Arlette's report. So forgive me for putting that out there. But I know I know you military guys, you shake your fingers at us, media folks from time to time asking questions about this sort of thing. But tensions were high in the Middle East and with several deadly incidents this past week. You know, there's a war in Ukraine. Shouldn't the Defense Department be making the White House aware of this sort of thing?
LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING (RET), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, a couple of things, Jim, and I'm sorry, if I was shaking my head, and it has nothing to do with making fun of civilians and a Happy New Year, by the way.
ACOSTA: Happy New Year.
HERTLING: First of all, I'd like to say that folks at Walter Reed are phenomenal. They handle all the senior DoD, civilian and military medical issues, just like Arlette said, but there are really two issues here. First of all, Austin's privacy, and the need to give a heads up to your boss if you're hospitalized.
I don't know what the issue is with Secretary Austin. And by the way, he's an old guy like me. And in fact, we're friends and we're West Point classmates, so I know Lloyd very well, but only that this procedure was reported as an elective surgery that later had complications.
Having worked in the medical field since I retired, that's not unusual. It was probably an elective surgery that he waited to get done during the holidays, when no one knew it was going to happen that became more serious than expected.
Should he or his staff had notified the NSC or the White House? Sure. You always notify your boss if you're hospitalized or something and we don't know what occurred that didn't allow that to happen.
But DoD specifically is prevented from talking about the medical issues of any of their personnel, including the SecDef due to privacy issues and HIPAA requirements, which require specific privacy and health care disclosures.
You know, while Secretary Austin said he will try and do better in the press release as Arlette -- he also said, and I'll emphasize this, this was his personal medical issue, and he took full responsibility for the disclosures decision, so I admire him greatly for that.
He has -- you know, in terms of the war going on, he has multiple deputies he trusts to continue the actions of the department while he is away, and he has been on a pretty tight schedule in both the wars in Ukraine and Israel over the last couple of months. So I give him a little grace on this.
ACOSTA: All right, well, and obviously we don't know all the details yet, so when we get those details, we'll know more at that point.
But let's jump into the news. The Secretary of State, Tony Blinken, he is back in the region trying to prevent this from becoming a widening conflict, lots of signs that it is becoming a widening conflict. You called this a tinderbox.
Are you seeing signs that, you know, of this broadening in a way that is concerning.
[19:35:03]
HERTLING: Yes, I did call it a tinderbox a couple of days ago and it's been concerning for me since the very beginning, Jim, you know that. We talked about it.
ACOSTA: Yes.
HERTLING: Israel has reported they've completed the dismantling of Hamas framework in the north. They said they're going to continue operations, taking some of the lessons learned from the north, in the south and the Central.
So, you know, they've reported killing the commander and deputy commander of Nuseirat battalion, the one responsible for most of the attacks on October 7th, but what we're seeing is missiles from Hezbollah increasing.; We're seeing more attacks from Yemen increasing, the attempt to close the Red Sea, it has been expanded.
Strikes by PMF forces in in Iraq against US military and including the finding of an Iranian cruise missile in the town of Babel in Iraq. So yes, this has a huge potential for expanding into more than just a regional conflict. And I'm concerned that the president and his administration staff had been trying to tamp this down, but it's been a very difficult situation, because there are a lot of terrorist organizations and governments supporting Hamas. That's the unfortunate part of all this.
ACOSTA: Well, and speaking of tamping down. I mean, today, the US Central Command said, a US ship acting in self-defense downed a drone over the Red Sea, it apparently was launched from a Houthi-controlled area in Yemen.
At what point in your view, does this reach a tipping point and the US has to do something more than just shooting down drones to put a stop to this? This is sort of like a pinprick thing that these Houthi- backed rebels are engaging in.
HERTLING: I know there's a lot of people calling for strikes in Yemen, strikes in other areas, and I think the administration and the Defense Department have done this in a very surgical way.
You know, what we don't want to do is start another expanded war in the Middle East. We've just gotten out of one of those after 20 years of fighting.
As you show this map here, in every one of those areas, it is tense, it is complex. There are religious and political factors involved. And I think that once you really boil the pot, if you will, and strike in a couple of these targets, with massive amount of kinetic activity, it's going to cause some unfortunate repercussions.
So I think that, you know, there is a need to strike specific targets when we have key intelligence in Iraq, in Yemen, in Lebanon, but even those areas are -- you know, those are sovereign territories. So it is an act of war when you do something like that, and I think the administration is attempting to balance the approach to making sure that they deter further actions, while not getting ourselves enmeshed in a major war in the Middle East.
ACOSTA: All right, Lieutenant General Mark Hertling, thanks so much. Appreciate it. Great to talk to you again.
HERTLING: And I'll never shake my head again, Jim. Thank you. Have a good night.
ACOSTA: We know you believe in full disclosure, as always, thanks a lot. We'll be right back.
HERTLING: You got it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And I just hope we get fair treatment, because if we don't, our country is in big, big trouble.
ALINA HABBA, DONALD TRUMP ATTORNEY AND SPOKESPERSON: I think it should be a slam dunk in the Supreme Court. I have faith in them. You know people like Kavanaugh, who the president fought for, who the president went through hell to get into place, he'll step up. Those people will step up not because they're pro-Trump, but because they're pro-law.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: And joining me now is Shan Wu, he is a former federal prosecutor.
Shan, how do you suppose that's going to work out? The president's lawyer saying Brett Kavanaugh, you owe us one.
SHAN WU, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Really poorly if they're hoping to influence Kavanaugh. I mean, if he is at all human, right, he's going to dislike that and you know, his instincts will say, I'm not going to do anything that makes it look like I'm paying back some sort of favor. I mean, it just is very silly for this to be going --
ACOSTA: And what do you think? I mean, could the Supreme Court -- I mean, with all of their bluster? I would assume that the odds are, the betting is in Washington and in legal circles that the Supreme Court is not going to disqualify Trump, that they're not going to throw him off the ballot. What do you think?
WU: I think that's right. They're really worried I think internally about the credibility bleed out that they're having.
I mean, John Roberts, your end report, staying away from credibility, so far, he wrote about AI instead of ethics, and they're looking for an off ramp, I think. And the safest thing for them to do is to let Trump be in the election, but they do need to do some interpretation.
Now this is before them, they obviously felt they had to take it. They gave a very broad acceptance to the appeal. They really didn't narrow down exactly which issues they're going to take. That may indicate that there is too much controversy within their own circles to figure out how narrowly they can rule or not.
They will be looking to rule narrowly, for example, they could say that the best smartest move is to say this is a process problem, really now a ruling would be to say Colorado's process was missing something.
[19:45:10]
It wasn't a full enough hearing. Couldn't subpoena people. So redo there. Or they could say they could go big and say this is a process that only Congress can tell us what to do, otherwise, there won't be any uniformity.
Now, that doesn't really comport with the Constitution because the Constitution clearly states --
ACOSTA: It states it.
WU: Yes, Congress could re-qualify them, could waive the disqualification if they wanted to, they certainly could have said Congress is the only people that can disqualify them.
ACOSTA: Yes, but that would be an interpretation.
WU: Right.
ACOSTA: And not sticking to the text that's actually there.
WU: Yes, Exactly.
ACOSTA: And what about this question of Ginny Thomas and Clarence Thomas. What's your view on that? We talked about this with Zoe Lofgren in the previous hour and she said, Clarence Thomas, should recuse himself.
Is there a case to be made the Clarence Thomas should not be hearing this case or the other cases that maybe come before the court because Ginny Thomas was involved in this effort to overturn the election results?
WU: If the Supreme Court wants to re-establish its credibility, the first step would be to have Thomas recuse from this case, and all the cases.
Judges are so careful about this appearance of impropriety, and this is so far off the scale in terms of the appearance of impropriety. It is not a question of whether he is somehow dirty or taking bribes, it is a question of how does this look when your wife is so involved in this cause that you're hearing a case about? So he really should recuse himself when they go to court.
ACOSTA: And does it make sense from a defense standpoint for Trump to show up at this hearing? Apparently, there's going to be a hearing on presidential immunity on Tuesday here in Washington. There has been some talk that he's going to show up. Is that a good idea from a defense standpoint? Would you want him, if he doesn't need to be there, why would he be there?
WU: Yes, I would not want him there. I mean, particularly when you're at the Court of Appeals level, you want it to look just very, it's legal, it is analytical. It's not a place to be posturing or showboating.
He obviously wants to do that on the steps of the courthouse, and like his attorney's remarks about Kavanaugh, at a human level, having worked for judges, I mean it bothers them when people are showboating and doing things like that, so that's not going to help.
ACOSTA: They don't want to see that.
WU: Right, they don't want to see that.
ACOSTA: Don't poke the federal judge in the eye, as somebody once told me.
All right, Shan Wu, thanks a lot. Appreciate it.
WU: Sure.
ACOSTA: All right, great to talk to you.
Up next, we will run the numbers with Harry Enten. Stay with us.
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ACOSTA: Three years after the Capitol attack, a new poll is revealing just how many Americans believe a false conspiracy theory about January 6th. CNN senior data reporter, Harry Enten joins us now to run the numbers.
Harry, this is pretty alarming. Break down how Republicans feel about the 2020 election and the attack on the Capitol. I mean, a lot of this stuff is just not going away.
HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: It's not going away, Jim. Sometimes there are poll findings that I find so amazing that I have to almost do a double take and this is one of them.
So take a look at Republicans, what they believe about the 2020 election. It's not only that they believe that it was a fugazy, but they believe that there's solid evidence of widespread voter fraud. There is no such thing as that. There's no evidence.
ACOSTA: None.
ENTEN: No real evidence anyway, yet, 62 percent -- exactly -- yet, 62 percent believe it.
How about this one? FBI operatives organized the January 6 attacks. That's a conspiracy theory, and yet, the plurality, 34 percent of Republicans believe it. And this is not the only poll that shows something like this. So when you put it all together, it's just clear that many Republican voters, simply put, are in the land of make believe and not the land of reality. ACOSTA: Well, and Trump was feeding that earlier today. I mean, when
he was at an event in Iowa and talking about Antifa and the FBI. It's been debunked. It's not true.
And Harry, where is Trump right now? Do we have polling that gives us any sense as to where the Iowa caucuses are headed?
ENTEN: Yes, perhaps not surprising. If Republicans are willing to believe a lot of that manure, Donald Trump still well ahead in Iowa. And not only that, but has gained ground in Iowa. Look at this. He's got a 31-point lead. He's up a point since October.
DeSantis and Haley are stable exactly where they are. So the fact is, at this particular point, you have to consider Donald Trump a heavy favorite and although this is the De Moines Register poll, there was a Fox News poll that showed the exact same thing, Trump north of 50 percent in the state of Iowa.
ACOSTA: And Harry, as you and I both know, those Des Moines Register polls are often very, very good. It'll be interesting to see what happens as we get really close to Iowa.
And then lastly, just to lighten the mood a little bit, let's talk some football. You and I like to talk football. My Commanders aren't anywhere near the NFL playoffs, once again, they might get a high draft pick. We will talk about that another time.
But your Bills, what are the chances here?
ENTEN: Look, they when they're in. They are the number two seed, there it is. Now, they've got a backdoor way in to be the seventh seed. If they lose to Miami tomorrow night and Jacksonville also loses. But the fact is, I want to squish the fish tomorrow night in Miami.
I'll say Pittsburgh didn't do me any favors earlier today. They did in fact win, they beat Baltimore.
ACOSTA: Yes.
ENTEN: But the fact is, Jim, it's pretty simple. If you want to win a Super Bowl, which is what the Bills want to do, you don't want to go in through the backdoor, you want to go through the front door.
They've got to beat Miami and I know your executive producer, Tim, is a big Miami fan and I like Tim, but I do not like Miami at all. Wolf Blitzer and I will sing "Kumbaya" together on air if Buffalo is able to win this football game.
I've been watching this team for twenty-five, thirty years, it is about time we finally won a Super Bowl. Let's put those four Super Bowl losses behind us, and let's come out with a big W tomorrow night and have some good momentum going into the postseason.
[19:55:15] ACOSTA: Yes, I would hate there to be a letdown for Wolf. You Bills
fans have been very patient for a very long time. Harry, I wish all the luck in the world.
Harry Enten, thanks a lot. really appreciate great to talk to you again. I won't even say go Commanders because it's just -- you know, it's on to next year.
ENTEN: Go Bills.
ACOSTA: Just go Bills. All right, very good. All right. Thanks, Harry.
And a quick programming note, tomorrow, the legacy of the Miracle on the Hudson, 15 years later. The Miracle on the Hudson, how did it change the lives of Captain Sullenberger and the passengers and crew? "The Whole Story" with Anderson Cooper, that's tomorrow night at eight o'clock Eastern on CNN.
And thank you very much for joining me this evening. I'm Jim Acosta. I'll see you back here tomorrow night starting at five Eastern.
Up next, that special report on January 6th, "American Coup: The January 6 Investigation." Stay tuned for that one.
See you next time. Goodnight.
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