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CNN International: S. Africa Presents Genocide Case At Intl. Court Of Justice; Blinken: Creating Path To Palestinian State Way To Isolate Iran; Blinken Meets With Egypt's Pres., Wraps up Middle East Tour. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired January 11, 2024 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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MAX FOSTER, HOST, "CNN NEWSROOM": Hello. Welcome to CNN Newsroom. I'm Max Foster in London. Just ahead, self-defense or genocide, South Africa condemns attacks on civilians in Gaza at the International Criminal -- International Court of Justice, rather. Plus, as the bombardment continues, U.S. Secretary of State Blinken hosts also the President of Egypt. And silence in court, Donald Trump told he can't speak during closing arguments at the New York civil fraud trial.

Is the war in Gaza genocide or self-defense? That's largely the question before the International Court of Justice in The Hague, where the South African government is presenting its case against Israel. It accuses Israel of breaching the UN Convention on Genocide, and is urging the court to order Israel to stop its military campaign in Gaza. Israel will present its defense on Friday, but it said all along its actions are self-defense and that it's doing everything possible to minimize civilian casualties. Outside the court --

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FOSTER: Outside the court, pro-Israel protesters demanding the hostages held by Hamas be freed, while pro-Palestinian marches turned out and chanted "Free Palestine".

Melissa Bell joins us live from The Hague. A huge subject for these judges to consider. But, it does hinge on that central point. Doesn't it? Was it genocide?

MELISSA BELL, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Of what is genocide, and that is, of course, the substantive case that South Africa has brought. It could take years for the International Court of Justice, just behind me, to rule on that question, Max. But, the immediate question before it, that is at the heart of the hearings, the one today from South Africa, the one that you hear tomorrow in Israel's defense, is about the provisional measures that South Africa has asked for that it wants the ICJ to tell Israel to suspend its military campaign urgently, while the more substantive question of whether genocidal acts have been a part of what it's done or what is doing can be considered by the court. And it was extremely sobering testimony that we heard here inside the

court today, laid out forensically. And this was very much at the heart of South Africa's idea. We spoke to their justice ministry yesterday about their intention here. It was to lay out before the court and of course through it, Max, to world opinion the facts of what had gone on in Gaza so far. We heard several of their barristers speak, beginning by their senior counsel who began proceedings by really laying out forensically what had happened over the course of the last three months.

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ADILA HASSIM, SOUTH AFRICA'S SENIOR COUNSEL: In the first three weeks alone, following October 7, Israel deployed 6,000 bombs per week. At least 200 times it has deployed 2,000 pound bombs in southern areas of Palestine designated as safe.

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BELL: She went on to talk about the humanitarian situation, what the siege has meant for civilian populations inside Gaza. The fact she said that there are now greater risks for Palestinians dying of famine inside than they are under the weight of Israeli bombs. The proceedings then moved on to other spokesman of the delegation, barristers who went on to explain the question of jurisdiction, the question of Israeli rhetoric. And all of this underpinned, of course, by the tremendous symbolism of this hearing being held here, and in relation to the 1948 Genocide Act. It was after all created, Max, after the Holocaust. Israel is a signatory. South Africa is a signatory.

And a lot of what we heard in the more than three hours of proceedings this morning was about the fact that from the South African point of view, no one can be exempt from the genocide conventions rules, and no amount of atrocity can ever justify genocide.

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Have a listen to what the South African Justice Minister had to say.

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RONALD LAMOLA, SOUTH AFRICAN MINISTER OF JUSTICE: No armed attack on the state territory, no matter how serious, even an attack involving atrocity crimes, can provide any justification for or defense to breaches to the convention, whether it's a matter of law or morality.

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BELL: Tomorrow, of course, it'll be Israel's turn to speak directly to the court in its defense. And what we expect will happen, Max, is that the ICJ could rule relatively quickly on that question of the provisional measures that South Africa is asking for, Max.

FOSTER: OK, Melissa Bell in The Hague, thank you so much. Coinciding with that hearing, America's top diplomat says in his

words, creating a path to a Palestinian state is the best way to isolate Iran. The U.S. Secretary of State has been meeting with Egypt's President in Cairo, part of Antony Blinken's urgent mission aimed at preventing the Israel-Hamas war from spreading. Blinken is heading back to Washington after a flurry of meetings with leaders across the Middle East. You'll know from watching this program that the Biden White House is looking for a path which leads to -- leads the way out of bloodshed in Gaza.

CNN's Paula Hancocks is monitoring all these developments from Abu Dhabi. She joins us now live. What do you think is the achievement of this trip and the impact it made?

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Max, we heard from the Secretary of State himself saying that the main goals were to prevent the civilian loss of life that has been so significantly high in Gaza, and also to make sure that more humanitarian aid was allowed in. At the same time, he wanted to push for the hostages, Israeli, American and other nationalities still being held in Gaza to be released.

Now, one thing that he has just spoken to reporters before getting on the plane and leaving Egypt, he believes was achieved was that during this particular trip, those in the region were finally willing to talk about the day after, to talk about once the Israeli military pulls out of Gaza, and pushing for that Palestinian state. Now, we know that it's something that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has not been willing to talk about or to even entertain in recent years. But, he has been hammering home the point that he has heard from other Arab nations in the region that there could potentially be some deals done or there could be a more secure future for Israel if there was a Palestinian state.

Now, of course, the devil is in the detail. He did point out that that is going to be extremely difficult for all. And also, we are still hearing of the dire situation in Gaza, the WHO talking about the horrific food situation. So, even at the same time as the U.S. Secretary of State is calling for more humanitarian aid to get into Gaza, it is simply not happening. The WHO speaking of the difficulties due to the Israeli bombardment, due to the restrictions in movement, pointing out one drugstore and hospital in the northern part of Gaza that they have tried to deliver desperately needed fuel and medical supplies to, has been denied by Israel, saying that it's the fifth time since the end of December that they have been denied to get to this area to give much needed medical supplies.

So, even as the U.S. Secretary of State says he wants more humanitarian aid to get in, the reality on the ground is different.

FOSTER: OK. Paula Hancocks, thank you so much for that.

Volodymyr Zelenskyy warning that any pause on the battlefield in Ukraine would only help Moscow rearm. The Ukrainian President spoke in Estonia today, the second leg of a Baltic tour. In his first stop in Lithuania on Wednesday, Mr. Zelenskyy told his allies that Russian President Vladimir Putin would not rest until he destroys Ukraine. He also made a plea for modern air defense systems to repel attacks, like the ones Russia launched over Christmas and New Year.

Russia's Supreme Court has just rejected Alexei Navalny's claims, meanwhile, against the Ministry of Justice. The jailed Kremlin critic has filed legal action challenging the harsh conditions of a Siberian penal colony where he is being detained. Navalny appeared at today's hearing in Moscow via video link. He has complained about limited access to religious materials and rules allowing only 10 minutes to eat meals. During his argument, Navalny offered a glimpse into what he says are brutal conditions inside that facility.

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ALEXEI NAVALNY, RUSSIAN OPPOSITION LEADER (TRANSLATED): The punishment cell is often a very cold place. Do you know why people choose the newspaper there to cover themselves? Because with a newspaper, I can tell you, judges, it is a much warmer place to sleep for example than without one. And so, you need a newspaper so as to not freeze.

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FOSTER: Clare Sebastian is here. The comments are going to endear himself to the authorities, of course, but we're used to seeing that. Why do you think he is pushing it in the way that he is right now?

CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is part of his MO that we've seen all along since he has been imprisoned, that he brings these cases, this one to the Supreme Court. We saw him in a video link yesterday at a different court, protesting a different element of his own detention. Today, it was general rules governing prisoners. But, he brings these various different cases as a sign, one, to show that he is not cowed, not deterred, despite the fact that he is now been banished beyond the Arctic Circle by the Russian authorities, and secondly, to expose the ills, the abuses, as he sees it at the Russian justice system, to show that the conditions that he is facing are as they are.

And we did get a lot of sort of color on that today from his appearance. He got a significant platform. He was able to do a lot of talking. He talked there about the need for newspapers to keep warm. We know that in the place where he is, in the Russian region of Yamalo, it can go well below minus 30 Celsius regularly at this time of year.

We know that he talks about the other complaint, is the amount of time he gets to eat. He says he gets 10 minutes, which when you're dealing with bread, and he said boiling water, turns something that might have otherwise been a pleasant experience into something hellish. This on top of what we already know from social media posts on his channel this week that he is back in a punishment cell. That's essentially a very strict form of solitary confinement. This is the 24th time, according to his team, he spent some 273 days there.

So, all of this is designed to keep him in the headlines, to keep shedding light on what's going on here. And all of this, of course, leading up to the Russian elections. His team, his aides have said there is no coincidence at all here. This is why they say he has been sent to Siberia. This is why the pressure on him is stepping up. He, as I said, is keen to show that he is not deterred.

FOSTER: OK. Clare, thank you.

Turning to a developing story in the Horn of Africa, Somali forces are searching for passengers on board a United Nations helicopter that was captured by Al-Shabaab militants. The UN says the helicopter was forced to make an emergency landing in insurgent-controlled territory north of Mogadishu.

Larry Madowo joins me now live in Nairobi, Kenya. A horrific situation for this group to find themselves in. Have we heard anything from Al- Shabaab, or any updates?

LARRY MADOWO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We haven't had any official confirmation from Al-Shabaab. But, the Somali information minister is telling CNN that Somali National Forces are continuing to attempt to mount a rescue here, that they're doing this in a practical way, including talking to locals there to try and gather intelligence to figure out exactly what happened here. He cannot confirm if any of them did escape or were killed, as has been reported in some places. All he is saying is that there was one Somali National on this UN contracted aircraft and seven foreign nationals. We don't know the nationalities of these people. There is not a lot that we know yet. In fact, we haven't moved much since we heard this from the UN spokesperson yesterday.

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STEPHANE DUJARRIC, SPOKESPERSON, U.N. SECRETARY-GENERAL: I can confirm that there was an incident involving a UN contracted helicopter that took place today in Galgaduud in Somalia. Response efforts are underway. But, I think you will all understand for the sake of the safety of all those on board we're not going to say anything more at this point.

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MADOWO: We know that this UN contracted aircraft was carrying out a medical evacuation, and it is believed to have developed some mechanical failure. That is why it was forced to land in this region that's controlled by Al-Shabaab. Al-Shabaab is an Al-Qaeda affiliate that's been raging a war -- waging a war against the Somali government since 2006. It wants to take over the country and impose a very strict form of interpretation of Islamic Sharia law. And the Somali government, successive Somali governments have fought against it. It's supported by forces from the African Union, U.S. forces, and other international partners. And it's -- recently, it's made some progress.

But, Al-Shabaab continues to control large parts of central and southern Somalia. And something like this has never happened before. So, it's a very delicate operation. A lot of people waiting to see if there will be news of a rescue here, if there is any word on who these people were and what's their condition, Max. FOSTER: OK. Larry, thank you.

Still to come, Donald Trump will be back in court today. We'll tell you why he won't be allowed to speak, as his fraud trial wraps up in New York.

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FOSTER: Donald Trump reportedly said he would never help Europe if it came under attack. That's according to an EU official who says that Trump made those remarks to European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen back in 2020. Trump, who was U.S. President at the time, also reportedly said NATO is dead, according to the same official who was at the meeting. The Biden campaign said the report is proof that Trump is more interested in cozying up to dictators than protecting America's place in the global stage.

Donald Trump is expected to attend closing arguments in his civil fraud trial in New York in just a couple of hours. But, the judge says, since he didn't agree to follow the court's rules, he won't be allowed to make a statement. The New York Attorney General is seeking $370 million in damages, and a ban on Trump doing business in the state. The former President has already been found liable for fraud. The judge now considering damages.

CNN's Brynn Gingras is outside the courthouse in New York for us. Do we know what he is coming and what he expects to get from it?

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN U.S. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. I mean, listen, Max, he has been at this trial several times throughout the two and a half months. And certainly, he wanted to make some closing arguments, which would be unusual for a defendant to do in any trial. But, there was, according to court, paperwork back and forth between Trump's attorneys and the judge, in this case, trying to discuss the terms of how those closing arguments could go for the former President if he were to speak. And ultimately, the judge said that they didn't agree to those terms. And so, he doesn't expect the former President to speak for closing arguments. Of course, we do fully expect him to talk outside the courtroom, as he has done many times when he does come to this trial.

But, listen, both sides, these are the closing arguments. The state's attorneys are going to have two hours to present its final -- finality of this case, and the defense is going to have the same amount as time -- uptime as well. And we expect much of the same arguments that we saw in those two and a half months of trial that included, of course, high-profile witnesses like the Trump children, gag orders and such.

The state's attorneys arguing that the Trumps inflated the values of some of their assets in order to get better business loan and interest rates. And the defense essentially saying that they were just doing business as usual in the real estate markets here in New York, and saying there is really no victims in this case. So, how is it that the State's Attorney's Office is going to ask for $370 million recouped back to the state?

So, we'll see how those arguments go. But, essentially, we don't expect any sort of decision by the judge who will determine damages, as you said, until the end of this month. But, we are waiting for the former President to come. The court doesn't get started until about 10 o'clock this morning. He usually gets here about 9:30. So, he should be here shortly. Max.

FOSTER: In terms of how this plays into the campaign, dare I ask, I mean, it's obviously separate from the presidential campaign, but he has tied the two together. Just explain to us the relationship between the two in terms of how it's all being portrayed?

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GINGRAS: Yeah. Listen, the President has taken every opportunity in these trials to basically say these are witch hunts to come against his moves for the presidency later in this election, later this year. It's no different for this trial. That's why he has showed up so many times while this trial was going on at the end of last year, and we don't expect anything different today. We expect, when he does go to the cameras outside the courtroom, he will use the same arguments that he has been that this trial is just one facet of states coming after him, trying to disrupt his campaign. And we know that he does profit off of these speeches that he gives outside these trials.

So, certainly, there is no doubt that this is his purpose for coming today because he is coming voluntarily. He does not need to be here for these closing arguments. So, we will see how that goes later today. We'll actually see if he does speak in court. It's very unclear, but it doesn't appear he will.

FOSTER: OK. Brynn outside the New York courthouse with a lot of other journalists, thank you so much joining us.

Now, on Wednesday night, Donald Trump appeared at a town hall on Fox News. He was trying to distract attention away from his top Republican rivals who are holding a debate here on CNN. Nikki Haley and Ron DeSantis are making their case to voters in Iowa with just days to go before the Iowa caucuses. And though they both called out Trump for skipping the debate, they saved most of their harshest criticism for each other.

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GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We will build a wall. We will actually have Mexico pay for it in the way that I thought that Donald Trump was. We're going to charge fees on remittances that workers send to foreign countries, billions of dollars. We will build a wall. He also promised record deportations. Donald Trump deported fewer people than Barack Obama did when he was President.

NIKKI HALEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Dictators always say, always do what they say they're going to do. China said they were going to take Hong Kong. They did. Russia said they were going to invade Ukraine. We watched it. China says Taiwan is next. We better believe them. Russia said once they take Ukraine, Poland and the Baltics are next. Those are NATO countries, and that puts America at war. This is about preventing war.

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FOSTER: Well, I'll have more news after this short break.

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FOSTER: Now to Papua New Guinea where authorities are trying to ease tensions after a wage dispute set off violent protests that left multiple people dead. Police and other security personnel were among the demonstrators, furious over an unexpected dock in their pay. Papua New Guinea's Prime Minister said the smaller paychecks were due to an unintended computer glitch, and he promised the problem would be fixed.

In Ecuador, prison officials say at least 139 guards and staff are being held hostage by gangs inside five prisons right now, as drug gangs wage a war against the government.

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Ecuador's President Daniel Noboa said the nation is fighting more than 20,000 "terrorists" after a wave of violence, kidnappings and prison riots stung the nation. He is vowing not to give in to terror. Military and police operations are underway nationwide to root out the gangs behind this week's attacks. The military says it's arrested more than 300 terrorists since Tuesday and recaptured dozens of escaped inmates.

The World Economic Forum isn't very hopeful for the future. According to its annual outlook released on Wednesday, the new report highlights multiple risk factors that could cause issues worldwide. In the near term, those risks include the spread of misinformation and disinformation as well as extreme weather events. But, over an extended period of time, those extreme weather events and other changes to the earth and its ecosystems are at the top of their most concerning issues. The report comes just days before the World Economic Forum's Annual Meeting in Davos in Switzerland, which is next week.

One of those extreme weather events could be a diminishing supply of water due to global warming. That's the newest theory published in a study from Dartmouth College. Researchers found climate change has reduced the snowpack in most parts of the Northern Hemisphere, posing a threat to water resources for millions of people. Less snow also means one less tool to fight wildfires. Slowly melting snow can help reduce the intensity of wildfires versus water that quickly runs off.

Thank you for joining me here on CNN Newsroom. I'm Max Foster in London. World Sport is next.

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