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Trump's Closing Pitch To Iowans Are Insults, Lies, Revenge And Retribution; Trump's Anti-Immigrant Rhetoric, Blames Immigrants For The Nation's Problems; Battle For Second Place Between Haley And DeSantis In Iowa; CNN's Donie O'Sullivan Reports About One AZ County Election Official Who Is Not MAGA Enough; U.S. Expects Retaliation From Houthi Militants; A Rescue Was Caught On Camera. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired January 14, 2024 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:02:37]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: You're live in the "CNN Newsroom." I'm Jim Acosta in Washington. Good evening. With just over 24 hours until the caucuses, Donald Trump is delivering his closing arguments to the people of Iowa with a heavy dose of insults, mockery, and more lies. For his supporters, he's pledging four more years of revenge and retribution.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Nikki and Crooked Joe are both backed by warmongers and left-wing globalist Wall Street, millionaires and billionaires who crave to destroy the MAGA movement. These caucuses are your personal chance to score the ultimate victory over all of the liars, cheaters, thugs, perverts, frauds, crooks, freaks, creeps, and other quite nice people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Trump also once again blamed immigrants for the nation's problems, saying they threatened to spread disease all over the nation. Here's part of that hateful anti-immigrant rhetoric.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We're taking in people from prisons. We're taking in people from mental institutions. We're taking in murderers and drug lords. We're taking in people that are very, very sick with diseases that will be spread all over our nation. We're doing the wrong thing for our country. It's going to be very hard to recover from that, but we're going to start on day one with deportation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: This all comes as the final Des Moines register poll shows nearly half of caucus goers in the Hawkeye state support the former president. If the final outcome mirrors the polling, and it usually does, Trump would win the highest share of Iowa Republicans for a non- incumbent in history. Let's discuss more now with former Trump White House Communications Director Anthony Scaramucci. Anthony, great to see you as always. Thanks for coming back on.

ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Good to see you, Jim.

ACOSTA: Good to see you. I guess, what are your thoughts? I mean, listening to Trump and some of his closing arguments here, I mean, arguments might be a nice way of putting it, kind of a closing rant. But it doesn't seem to be hurting him with the Iowans. He's on the verge of a blowout.

SCARAMUCCI: Well, it's the type of leadership that we have today, though. He represents that leadership. He's reflecting hatred. When you say the word deportation and you're in a nation of immigrants, you know that there are family members of legal people and citizens here that are getting deported.

[17:05:04]

When you say that the blood of the country, the immigrants are poisoning the blood of the country, you know, this is American nativism. This goes back to like Huey Long and Charles Lindbergh. And so the problem is, is that there's a large group of Americans, unfortunately, that feel the same way as, as the ex-president. So he's an avatar for their anger. They're upset about things.

I don't frankly think anybody on either side has come up with an aspirational solution. And so if you're not going to go with an aspirational solution, these people are going to press the anger button and he's going to win the Iowa caucus.

ACOSTA: And I did want to ask you about this, Anthony. I mean, he's also on the campaign trail talking about Jimmy Carter today. Let's listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I always say Jimmy Carter is the happiest man alive right now, and it's good because he's somewhat elderly, right? Somewhat. My wife went to the funeral of Rosalynn two months ago. It was a beautiful funeral. But Jimmy Carter is a happy man right now because people are considering, compared to Biden, his presidency to be a brilliant presidency.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Yeah, I mean, Anthony, I guess Trump is trying to make this comparison between Biden and Jimmy Carter. But why invoke the Carter's and the passing of Rosalynn Carter in this fashion? It sounds like he is mocking Jimmy Carter, who, I mean, we should note, has been in hospice, just lost his wife. I mean, who is the happiest person after losing their wife? I mean, it's just -- it seems ugly. You worked with him. Why does he keep going? He does this with McCain and others.

SCARAMUCCI: All right, so let's -- ACOSTA: Yeah.

SCARAMUCCI: So let's decode it. It's almost like a Trump's rubic cube, let's line up all the colors. So, the Carter reference is to attack, obviously, President Biden. And, you know, obviously, President Trump doesn't care about President Carter's feelings or whatever he's doing. There's an objective here. And so he's attacking President Biden.

Secondary thing he's doing, which is part of his personality, he's referencing the former first lady going to the funeral, you know, so he's trying to tell people that he's going to fix things. He's an avatar for their anger, but there's some compassion in the family. I mean, that's basically all of the symbolism in that speech.

Now you're disgusted by it and probably won't admit that you're disgusted by it because you're an objective journalist, but I'm disgusted by it. And the problem is --

ACOSTA: Pretty ugly.

SCARAMUCCI: -- when you speak out about it and you tell other people that you're disgusted by it, some of them are like, well, I don't really care. You know, he's representing me. The establishment is not representing me. The system isn't working for me and my family. We feel left out. We were once an aspirational working class America. We're now an economically desperation America. And so he represents us.

And so he says things that are out of sorts and he says things that, you know, you or I, Jim, wouldn't say, uh, but they let them get away with it. And he plays to them and he understands them. And I think this is the real risk for the Biden campaign. They really have to wake up on this. They have to understand what he's doing so that he can parry it because this really is going to be a battle for the democracy, this one.

He's going to expand executive power. He's going to make things rougher for people. He has already said he's going after his adversaries using the Department of Justice. And so for all of these reasons, you know, we got to help the Democrats here if he's eventually the nominee. And I'll be working very hard on that because as your fellow CNN colleagues have pointed out when they interview people like John Kelly or General Barr, turn to General Barr.

Anybody that's worked for him that knows him, that isn't tied to him politically is telling the truth about him. And we'll have to do that and work even harder in 2024 than we did in 2020.

ACOSTA: Yeah. I mean, Anthony, just to follow up on that, are you saying that, and maybe I misheard you. that you may be supporting President Biden this time around.

SCARAMUCCI: Well, a hundred percent. No, no, you didn't mishear me. If Donald Trump is the nominee, I'm a patriot first, Jim. I'm a partisan, second. This is a battle for the American democracy. This is a battle for freedom. When someone's telling you they're gonna flex and be a dictator on day one and go after their adversaries, this is against the 200 plus year experiment of America.

This is against what made your country -- excuse me, your family and my family successful in this country. And we have to explain that to the American people that what he's suggesting, and he -- they may think his policies are going to work and that sort of thing, but you have to keep the system in place.

[17:10:07]

We have to hire an institutionalist in 2024 and preserve and expand the system of the American democracy. Mr. Trump does not want to do that. And so absolutely, if it's Trump versus Biden, I will do everything I can to make sure that the president stays in office.

ACOSTA: And I -- Anthony, I did want to ask you about, I mean, I don't know if you were shocked by this. I assume you were when you heard this, but the Trump team, his legal team arguing in court this past week that the assassination of political rivals by SEAL Team 6 is covered by presidential immunity if that president isn't first impeached and convicted during the impeachment process. What was your reaction to that when you saw that?

SCARAMUCCI: So I have to be candid with you, Jim. I wasn't that shocked because they have moved the goalpost on shock so far. It's like a 400 yard football field now. And so anything that they say or anything that they're doing, stuff that he's saying about the former, you know, Mayor Giuliani, all this sort of stuff, nothing is shocking anymore.

He'll pull any trick or any stunt, but I think he's really up against it, frankly, because remember, his talking point is that it's liberals trying to prevent him from re-rising to the presidency. But you got people like Mark Meadows in there who used to run the Freedom Caucus in the House and was his former chief of staff as the chief witness in the insurrection case. So, we'll have to see what happens.

Obviously, we have the Supreme Court case related to whether or not he can be on or off the ballot as a result of the 14th Amendment. I think that's going to be a mission critical case as well. But you know, he'll pull any stunt, he'll do anything. And obviously the attention is very, very important to Mr. Trump. And so stuff like that gets some attention. It gets you scratching your head, other scratch their head. I don't scratch my head anymore because, you know, I'm sort of immune to it.

But I think we have to call it out though, for sure. We definitely have to call it out.

ACOSTA: Yeah. And I have to ask you, Anthony, not to have you look into your crystal ball, but do you think, I mean, knowing what you know about Donald Trump, do you think he gets through this year without being convicted, say for example, in the election subversion case? Does he succeed in pushing all of these cases past the November election? What do you think, or do you think justice is coming?

SCARAMUCCI: Well, listen, I've been humbled by life. I've been humbled by markets, and I've certainly been humbled by my predictions. I would have thought that the cases and the pressure of these cases would have left them off the ballot in Iowa and New Hampshire. That doesn't seem to be the case. But remember, if the Supreme Court says, and I believe it's in February or March, they rule that he can't be on the ballot, guess what? A lot of states are gonna take him off the ballot, or maybe all of the states will.

And so there's a couple of things, deus ex machina, that could happen here that knocks Trump out of the game. I'd like to believe, although the wheels of justice turned slowly, I'd like to believe this is still a fair system and I think the evidence is overwhelming and hopefully it's such that it'll knock him out of the race.

And I would just say to Governor Haley or Governor DeSantis, if you lose in Iowa, lose in New Hampshire, I wouldn't be dropping out of that race anytime soon. You got to stay in there because there's bombs about to go off in the Trump campaign related to all of the legal proceedings.

ACOSTA: Yeah. You think some of these campaigns may need to have some sort of, you know, a go bag, I suppose, so to speak. They need to have maybe a campaign in waiting.

SCARAMUCCIU: I think so.

ACOSTA: Is that what you're thinking?

SCARAMUCCI: I think so, because you've got to have the apparatus in place if he goes down. Now, listen, I have said to people, I think he's the Al Capone of American politics or, you know, listen to -- or the Teflon Don, both of these people in the bullseye of the American justice system. Everybody said that they were untouchable. They turned out not to be untouchable.

The president's campaign and some of the supporters believe that he's not going to be touched. That's possible, but it may not be because the evidence is overwhelming. And so, we'll see. I'll use a Trump expression. We'll have to see what happens.

But let's say he gets to that nomination. I would ask General Mattis and General Kelly and General McMaster to disavow stuff related to the military and get out and speak about what they saw in the first administration, the glaring inadequacies, the incompetence, the impetuosity, the lack of executive management skills, and also somebody that really doesn't understand the institutions of the American democracy.

[17:15:08]

I think it's important this time, no fooling around this time, you better get out there. I implore you to get out there. Let me rephrase that. I implore you to get out there and speak out alongside of us who happen to be civilians.

ACOSTA: All right. Anthony Scaramucci, great to see you as always. Thanks so much for your time. SCARAMUCCI: It's good to be here.

ACOSTA: I appreciate it. Coming up, what will happen tomorrow in Iowa? Next, we'll talk with Larry Sabato of "Sabato's Crystal Ball" about his predictions for Iowa and beyond. Stay with us. You're live in the "CNN Newsroom."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:20:01]

ACOSTA: Now, the only race in Iowa right now is the race for second place between Nikki Haley and Ron DeSantis on the eve of the first of the nation contest. A new Des Moines Register poll shows Haley taking the lead over the Florida governor, but Trump still dominating with double digits as the front runner in the race. Let's dig deeper now with my next guest, Larry Sabato, who's the director for the Center of Politics at the University of Virginia.

Larry, what was your response to this Des Moines Register poll? As we all know, this is the gold standard. It comes out on the eve of every Iowa caucus. And, you know, we all look to it as political junkies to see what it shows. And I guess it wasn't a huge shocker to see all of this. Trump out in the lead and Haley overtaking DeSantis. But what was your -- what was your reaction?

LARRY SABATO, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR POLITICS, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA: Well, I do pay attention to that poll. While you should never rely on a single poll, it has the best record and it has been very reliable, although as we know, four years ago, there was a terrible glitch and we never got to see the results. That was for the Democratic side.

But look, I think it's basically accurate. If you can find anybody who wants to bet you that Trump won't win the Iowa caucus, take the bet. Definitely take the bet. He's going to win. He's going to win it handily. As to who finishes second, yeah, I'm torn about that because Haley has popped up in the Des Moines Register Poll and other polls and not just in Iowa. So that suggests that she does have some lift.

But her supporters are remarkably unenthusiastic. They're not terribly dedicated to her. They're picking her because they don't like the other candidates, and that's fine. That's how a lot of people vote. But when you're facing, what, wind chill of 35 degrees and snow, minus 35 and snow, probably, if you're not very enthusiastic, you might decide to stay warm.

And that may push DeSantis, who does have a better organization and has had a longer term building of that organization in Iowa, that might enable him to pop up and become second rather than Haley.

ACOSTA: Yeah. And, you know, Trump is repeating the strategy of using divisive, controversial rhetoric. He was saying it earlier today, talking about immigrants bringing diseases into this country and so on. But I did want to show you this number, Larry, and show it to our viewers. A new CBS News poll shows 81 percent of Republican primary voters agree with Trump's poisoning the blood comments on immigration. What do you think is going on there, Larry? How do you make heads or

tails of this? Trump goes out there. He makes these kinds of comments, gets a lot of coverage in the press, obviously a lot of condemnation. But a lot of Republicans agree with this.

SABATO: Yeah, no question about that. And we've seen it since 2015. Look, Trump himself is incorrigible. We all know that. You will never stop him from saying something outrageous. In fact, he does it purposefully because it helps him, at least for the nomination, not necessarily in the fall. But as far as Republicans agreeing to it, Jim, in my lifetime, I have never seen a party change the way that Republican Party has changed, really over the last 25 or 30 years, but it accelerated with Trump's arrival on the national scene.

It's not just that they're conservative. There's nothing wrong with being conservative, and we need a liberal party and a conservative party to compete. This is often a very nasty, vicious party. And Trump's rhetoric appeals to the large share of Republicans who identify with what he says, no matter how mean, how vitriolic. So that's an advantage for Democrats in the fall, no matter how unpopular President Biden may appear to be in these polls.

ACOSTA: Yeah. And Larry, so just quickly, finally, if Trump wins by this massive margin that it looks like he's going to win by tomorrow. Yes, Nikki Haley might do well in New Hampshire, but what do you see in South Carolina? It's hard to see her beating Donald Trump in South Carolina, given the amount of support he has there and all of these other upcoming states. Is it too early to say it's over?

SABATO: I think it's too early, but I think just about everybody can see the direction in which it's moving. It's interesting because Iowa, and especially New Hampshire, maybe Trump's weakest states. If you look at the underlying data for the electorate, particularly New Hampshire, because the undeclared voters that don't identify with Democrats and Republicans, it could be what, 40 percent of the electorate. They can come in and vote and they strongly support a non- Trump candidate. It looks like it's going to be Haley. But the Republicans in New Hampshire strongly support Trump.

[17:25:00]

And outside New Hampshire, in the large majority of the states, Only Republican identifiers and registrants are allowed to participate. So that helps Trump enormously. But if I can add just one historical example, dating myself again, Jim.

ACOSTA: Yeah.

SABATO: Back in 1984, this was on the Democratic side, but you remember Democratic Vice President Walter Mondale, he was the leading candidate, got 50 percent%, 50 percent in Iowa. The second place candidate -- there were seven others running, was Gary Hart. He got 16 percent, won 6 percent. That was enough. Press and pundits declared it was a contest between Mondale and Hart. Hart ended up going all the way to the convention and Mondale --

ACOSTA: That's right.

SABATO: -- won by a midgen (sp). So you just -- you never know. And the press and pundits do have an effect here, unfortunately.

ACOSTA: Yeah. Sometimes we have egg on our face. There's no question about it. And we don't see what's around the bend. We'll see if it's another Gary Hart situation. It didn't end so well for Gary Hart, but all right, Larry -- or Walter Mondale for that matter. Larry, great to see you as always. Thanks so much, appreciate it.

SABATO: Thank you, Jim. Okay.

ACOSTA: In the meantime, an election official in Arizona finds out the hard way that believing once in election conspiracy theories just isn't enough for some extremists. We'll have the details next.

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[17:30:01]

ACOSTA: Across the country, election officials are facing an increasingly toxic environment because of threats and harassment from people who believe Donald Trump really won the 2020 election.

Tonight, our Donie O'Sullivan reports on what has happened to one Arizona county election official who once believed conspiracy theories but then discovered he wasn't extreme enough.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LISA MARRA, FORMER ELECTIONS DIRECTOR FOR COCHISE COUNTY, AZ: You should be in jail, you should be killed, you should be fired, to just people screaming into the phone. I mean, just ridiculous and 24-7.

DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Lisa Marra was director of elections in Arizona's Cochise County for six years.

MARRA: We actually had to hire an armed security company because the people that worked in the office processing ballots were afraid somebody was going to come break the door down and take ballots.

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Lisa, a lifelong Republican, had enough of the intimidation and threats, and last year she quit.

Your successor is a man named?

MARRA: Bob Bartelsmeyer.

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): This is Bob Bartelsmeyer.

BOB BARTELSMEYER, FORMER ELECTIONS DIRECTOR FOR COCHISE COUNTY, AZ: The election itself just didn't seem like it had been in the past elections. There was just something off.

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Back in 2020, he shared these Facebook posts falsely claiming Trump legally won by a landslide. BARTELSMEYER: Sometimes, it's hard for me to accept that there wasn't some error made --

O'SULLIVAN: Uh-hmm.

BARTELSMEYER: -- in the election. But I'm not sure that it was to the extent that it would have changed the election.

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): For some of the election conspiracy theorists who forced Lisa out of her job in Cochise County, Bob's doubts about the 2020 election made him an ideal candidate to replace her.

To maybe some of the people in Cochise, watch -- your critics were saying this is an election skeptic.

BARTELSMEYER: Uh-hmm.

O'SULLIVAN: He's an election extremist, a conspiracy theorist.

BARTELSMEYER: Denier.

O'SULLIVAN: Denier.

BARTELSMEYER: Uh-hmm.

O'SULLIVAN: While some people would have viewed that as a disqualification --

BARTELSMEYER: Correct.

O'SULLIVAN: -- there's people in Cochise who are probably saying, this is our guy.

BARTELSMEYER: Correct.

O'SULLIVAN: He knows what's up.

BARTELSMEYER: Uh-hmm.

O'SULLIVAN: He knows the election has been stolen.

BARTELSMEYER: Uh-hmm.

O'SULLIVAN: So, when you got there, some people were probably happy to see you coming.

BARTELSMEYER: Yes.

O'SULLIVAN: But then, something happened that he never expected. You weren't extreme enough.

BARTELSMEYER: No. They found out from the beginning that I was going to follow the laws and procedures.

O'SULLIVAN: And they weren't happy about that?

BARTELSMEYER: Some were not.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Your actions, sir, are not that of a conservative.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): And Mr. Bartelsmeyer, if I had the authority, I'd fire you.

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): At public meetings in Cochise County, some voters who believe conspiracy theories about the election decided Bob was not MAGA enough and began demanding he overhaul the entire voting system.

BARTELSMEYER: To do away with machines, do away with mail ballots. Those are things that have to be changed legislatively. And it's not permissible legally for me to do away with all this stuff.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): I'm sure even you brain dead rinos and Democrats can understand. We the people don't want any machines or mail-in ballots.

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): After just four months, Bob quits.

BARTELSMEYER: At my age, I don't need that. I need less drama.

GERALDINE ROLL, FORMER ELECTIONS DIRECTOR FOR PINAL COUNTY, AZ: You want some more?

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Geri Roll, a former Trump supporter, also left her election job in another Arizona county last year.

ROLL: I've never been treated so poorly, so disrespected.

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): So much of the vitriol directed at election workers like Bob, Lisa and Geri is fueled by false beliefs about voting machines, about ballots, and about election workers themselves.

ROLL: I had a guy tell me that he could hack into our election equipment through the power outlet.

O'SULLIVAN: What people believe?

ROLL: Nonsensical. It never has been like this before. And it's not stupidity. They really don't care about truth or integrity. They just want their outcome. I think that's it.

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Geri has spent most of her life working in the court system as a county attorney, but she says the abuse she received as an election worker topped this all.

ROLL: I have been treated better by murderers, child molesters, thieves, rapists than the political parties and the elected representatives.

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Harassment is one of the main reasons election officials across the country have called it quits. Across 11 western states, more than 160 top local election officials have left their position since November 2020.

BILL GATES, BOARD OF SUPERVISORS FOR MARICOPA COUNTY, AZ: We're asking a lot of our elections workers to deal with not only the general misinformation out there but directly people being attacked.

[17:35:02]

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Republican Bill Gates is on the board of supervisors for Arizona's largest county.

How concerned are you by the fact that there are election conspiracy theorists now becoming election officials?

GATES: I'm very concerned about that. We're seeing that in some small counties. We are only as strong as our weakest link.

BARTELSMEYER: It's very sad because we need experienced election workers.

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Fortunately for Bob Bartelsmeyer, he returned to his old election job in a different Arizona county where he says he is no longer being harassed. As for the election conspiracy theories he shared in 2020 --

Do you regret sharing those Facebook posts?

BARTELSMEYER: Yes. The 2020 chapter should be closed, and we should move forward. We have to believe the process of the certifications in each state of the secretaries of state.

O'SULLIVAN: So, you think voters should trust the 2024 election?

BARTELMEYER: Yes.

O'SULLIVAN: Even if Trump loses?

BARTELSMEYER: Yes.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'SULLIVAN (on camera): And Jim, look, despite Bob Bartelsmeyer's doubts there still about the 2020 election, he did ultimately do the right thing in Arizona where he didn't give into the whims of the conspiracy theorists and extremists, and as an election official do things that would have actually undermined the security and integrity of the vote.

Of course, the concern is though that there will be other election officials who have been put into their positions over the past few years and months who may not behave in the way Bob Bartelsmeyer did.

ACOSTA: Yeah, Donie, it makes you wonder what we're in store for when the 2024 general election rolls around. And Donie, I know you recently spoke with a January 6 rioter as she was preparing to be sent to prison. Let's talk about that. What did she say? O'SULLIVAN: Yeah, that's right. So, just this past week, past few days actually, Rachel Powell, she is a mom of eight, a grandmother of six, she was found guilty on nine counts. You see her there in this video in the pink hat trying to break her way into the Capitol. We spoke to her just a few days before she went into prison, beginning her five- year sentence this week, and I asked her if she has any regrets. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RACHEL POWELL, CONVICTED JANUARY 6TH RIOTER: I regret. I have a lot of remorse for ruining my family's life. I mean, in one day, I destroyed everything for really for nothing. I don't have remorse for attending protests. I don't have remorse for speaking out and saying that I believe that the election is stolen. I do have remorse for breaking a window and destroying my whole family's life and for thinking irrationally and not realizing, like, why don't you just sit down at this protest?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'SULLIVAN: Rachel has regrets there about her actions. She obviously minimized her actions as she spoke about, you know, as if she had just broken a window.

(LAUGHTER)

Not in the context, of course, important that it happened on January 6th, 2021 at the U.S. Capitol. But what was stunning about our conversation with Rachel is she still totally stands by Trump and she still believes the election lies and ultimately the lies and conspiracy theories that brought her there that day.

ACOSTA: It's just absolutely -- it's remarkable to hear these stories from the folks you're running into and talking to after what took place in the last election. Donie O'Sullivan, thanks a lot. Really appreciate the reporting.

O'SULLIVAN: Thanks, Jim.

ACOSTA: All right. Tonight, the Pentagon says it's expecting potential retaliation from a militant group in Yemen after the U.S. and U.K. launched a series of airstrikes against them as concerns about conflict in the Middle East intensify. You're live on "CNN Newsroom."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:43:08]

ACOSTA: The White House says it is anticipating retaliatory strikes from the Iranian-backed Houthis after multiple attacks by the U.S. and its allies.

With me now is former NATO supreme allied commander, retired four-star general Wesley Clark. General Clark, great to have you on as always. I mean, is this something that U.S. forces in the region should be concerned about?

WESLEY CLARK, FORMER NATO SUPREME ALLIED COMMANDER: Well, of course. I mean, we've got to have eyes and ears over what's going on in the part of Yemen that the Houthis control. So, ever since we -- before we did the strikes, when this started, we were busy collecting targeting, potential targeting information.

And when we have the ability to listen, to see what's going on, we can't talk about that here, and I don't have those specific details, but I've got tremendous confidence in U.S. intelligence. We've got plenty of assets. We can have assets in the air and on standby at any time. And we'll be looking for a chance. If they attempt to retaliate, to dominate, cut them off and put a heavy strike in on it.

This is the way this goes. We don't want to get in the tit for tat. They fire a missile. We want to fire three back. We want to take out more and what they're going after, and I'm sure we're preparing those target packages right now.

ACOSTA: Yeah, I mean, that leads me to my question and maybe you've already answered, and that is, if they retaliate and they do go after U.S. military targets, I know you're saying we don't want to get into a tit for tat, but perhaps that has already begun, and how does the U.S. respond at that point?

CLARK: Well, you know, we say we don't want to escalate. And that's important. We don't want to escalate. What we're going to do is cut off the escalation. We want to take away their ability to retaliate. And we want to reestablish deterrence.

[17:45:00]

So, as much as we can do, we're going to take out the assets that they might be considering or they might use for retaliation. And we are going to do it in a way that is proportionate to the increased risk of the larger picture. Not just the risk of a one missile coming at us, but what it means for global shipping in the Red Sea. So, proportionate response here means heavier than what comes at us in order to cap it off and stop it.

That's what we -- I'm assuming that's what we're planning to do. That's what we did with the early set of strikes. And they were obviously pretty effective because despite the avowed intent to retaliate right away, not much happened.

ACOSTA: Yeah. Last weekend, we had the former defense secretary, Mark Esper, on, and he said that the response from the U.S. to the Houthis has not been intense enough. What do you think? Does it -- does it need to be ramped up?

CLARK: Well, I think it wasn't intense enough before. I think the package that was put out, the last package, was a good intensive set of strikes. We hit 60 targets. We came back again with a second package, and then we hit a radar site that we'd missed later. I thought that was a pretty good package. Could it have been done sooner? Yes, it could have, but the point is tit for tat doesn't work here.

Now, we're not trying to overrun Houthi. It's not that, as Fareed said the other night, he said, well, if they survive, they win. That's -- not quite. They don't win unless they can continue to harass and go after U.S. and international shipping. That's their standard. They set that as their goal.

We're going to take that away from them, I think, if they attempt to do something now. We do have the means to do that largely even though "New York Times" and others have said most of the targets, we didn't hit, it's true, but we do have extremely good intelligence coverage of that area, we have a lot of experience with it. All we have to do is turn the eyes and ears on, which we have. We got a lot of confidence in our central command and its assets out there.

ACOSTA: All right. General Clark, we'll be watching. I know you will as well. Thank you so much for your time. Once again tonight, we appreciate it.

CLARK: Thank you.

ACOSTA: All right. Thanks. Coming up next, we're going to talk with a state trooper, perhaps you heard about this story, who withstood bone- chilling temperatures, snow, and frigid water to pull off an incredible rescue, caught on camera. The remarkable story is coming up next. Stay tuned.

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[17:51:56]

ACOSTA: In Vermont, an incredible rescue captured on body camera footage, a state trooper pulling an eight-year-old girl from an icy pond. The girl and another six-year-old fell in the water last month. The homeowner rescued the younger child but could not get to the eight-year-old, so he called 911, and Vermont State Trooper Michelle Archer arrived and dove into the water and rescued the child.

We want to warn you, the video you're about to watch here is intense, but you should know the little girl has since made a full recovery. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Call rescue.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Wow! And joining us now is the state trooper who made that rescue, Michelle Archer. Trooper Archer, can you walk us through what happened? What was -- what was going on? You came to the scene after the call went into 911 and what did you see? And I guess you just decided right then and there. Time was of the essence. You had to dive in. Is that basically what happened?

MICHELLE ARCHER, TROOPER, VERMONT STATE POLICE: Yes. I mean, I arrived on scene and, you know, I could see this -- the pink jacket in the water. I don't know if it was instinct or training or probably a little bit of both, but something just kicked in where I just took an action and, you know, panic wasn't really an option at that point.

ACOSTA: And we're showing some of the body cam footage right now. Can you walk us through what we're looking at here? Maybe you can't see what we're showing, but maybe you can remember what the video shows. You're submerged in the water with this little girl for a few seconds there.

ARCHER: Yes, sir. Yeah, I didn't -- like I said, there wasn't really much time for thinking. You know, it was, you know, time to kick into action. You know, once I hit the water, I just knew that I had to get in there and grab her and get her out as soon as possible.

ACOSTA: And how was she on the scene when you -- when you pulled her out? Did it take some time to revive her? Was she okay? What was it like?

ARCHER: Yeah, I wasn't sure at first, and then I listened to the video. You can almost hear her making some audible noises. And at that point, I knew -- I knew that was a good sign. And the next thing running through my mind was just to get her to the ambulance as soon as possible so medical staff could take over.

ACOSTA: Well, I mean, you did an amazing job. Hats off to you, trooper. I have to ask you this, though. Have you had a chance to talk with the little girl or her family since all of this happened?

[17:55:01]

Do you know how she's doing?

ARCHER: I haven't spoken with them yet. I think it's in the near future that we might meet up. The last thing I heard, that she was doing great and had no lasting effects of hypothermia or any other, you know, medical issue. It's unbelievable to hear that.

ACOSTA: Yeah. You know, trooper, I know you don't want to be -- you probably don't want to hear the word hero and that kind of thing, but you definitely are a hero for what you did there. It looks like her picture froze there, so we're going to try to get her back during the commercial break and thank her for coming on. But -- oh, there she is. She's back. You're back. Your picture froze there for a second there, Trooper Archer.

I guess when you process all of this, what goes through your mind? I know you don't want to be called a hero. You were just doing your job that day. But have you had some time to reflect on it?

ARCHER: I have. You know, every time I do, I've thought about it at multiple times, everything lined up that day just perfectly. We were in the area. You know, the neighbor or homeowner heard the yelling from the pond. So, a lot of things lined up that day to lead us to the outcome that we had.

ACOSTA: Yeah. And it's a reminder, kids, be careful on the ice.

ARCHER: Yes, absolutely.

ACOSTA: Yeah. No question about it. I know kids are tempted to go out there, but they have to be very careful. This is a case in point. Vermont State Trooper Michelle Archer, thanks so much for your time.

ARCHER: Thank you.

ACOSTA: Really appreciate the conversation. Thanks so much. All right, in the meantime, Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump and the candidates are still battling it out in the state of Iowa. They're making their final pushes ahead of these caucuses that get going tomorrow. We will have a live report coming up. Stay with us. You're live in the "CNN Newsroom."

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