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Ron DeSantis Ends Presidential Campaign, Endorses Trump; Trump and Haley Camps React To DeSantis Dropping Out; Interview With Rob Reiner; Trump Hails Far-Right Hungarian Prime Minister As "Very Strong Man"; Senate Hopes For Deals This Week To Fund Border, Aid To Ukraine And Israel. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired January 21, 2024 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: I'm Jim Acosta in Washington. Good evening.
We are continuing to follow tonight's breaking news. Florida Governor Ron DeSantis suspending his presidential campaign just two days before the New Hampshire primary. This comes after a disappointing, distant second place finish in Iowa, and polls showing he was expected to place a distant third in New Hampshire.
On his way out the door, he dealt a final blow to Nikki Haley, endorsing the former president despite questioning his electability time and again out on the campaign trail.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. RON DESANTIS (R), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Now, it's clear to me that a majority of Republican primary voters want to give Donald Trump another chance. He has my endorsement because we can't go back to the old Republican guard of yesteryear, a repackaged form of warmed over corporatism that Nikki Haley represents. The days of putting Americans last, of kowtowing to large corporations, of caving to woke ideology are over.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: At this hour, the governor's former rivals are responding to the news. Donald Trump thanking Ron DeSantis for his endorsement, saying he is, quote, "very honored." Meantime, the Haley campaign is dismissing the development as insignificant, saying they expect DeSantis supporters to split evenly between Haley and Trump.
Tonight the former South Carolina governor is making her pitch to those supporters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NIKKI HALEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: So instead look at the fact that we could actually win. And I think that's what Ron DeSantis' supporters want. They don't want to lose. They don't want a President Kamala Harris. And they also want a new generational leader. And we give them all of that. (END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: All right, let's discuss more now with national political reporter for "The Messenger," Marc Caputo, and CNN senior political commentator, Scott Jennings.
Scott, let me start with you. We were just talking to you last night and we were talking about the news that DeSantis was cancelling on "Meet the Press" and "STATE OF THE UNION" here on CNN. And the DeSantis campaign had assured us, they had assured you, that this was just a scheduling snafu. I guess not.
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, they did have some scheduling issues. They had to schedule the video shoot to get him out of the race. So I guess they had some things to work on.
ACOSTA: That's one logistical concern, yes.
JENNINGS: Yes. I will forever be puzzled by the choice to lie their ass off on the way out the door, but whatever, look. It's over now. I think everybody has seen this coming since the Iowa results. You know, I think DeSantis, for the last couple of months, has actually, as a technical matter, been a pretty good candidate. I think his town halls looked good. He beat Haley, I think, in the debate in Des Moines.
But by the time he found his groove Trump had really taken control of this primary and was so far ahead of both of them, it's hard to see how he's going to be beaten. And I think that's now true. Haley has asked for a one-on-one in New Hampshire. She's got it. And Trump is leading fairly significantly in the polls there. This is the most fertile ground she's ever going to get, and if he wins New Hampshire, I mean, I don't know how you call this thing anything but over.
ACOSTA: Yes. And Marc, you're down in Miami. You've covered Ron DeSantis for a long time. What's your reaction to all of this, and what are they saying down in Florida?
MARC CAPUTO, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, THE MESSENGER: Well, not shocked that a guy who staked his political fortunes on Iowa and got spanked there decided to drop out. A little surprised that a man of such stubbornness as Ron DeSantis ultimately listened to common sense and reason, and decided to finally quit.
Now, to Scott's point, they knew last night that he was not going to go to New Hampshire. And obviously that's the reason he cancelled your shows. But they didn't tell anyone that. So why DeSantis went through this extra act of subterfuge as sort of an F you to the media, which is one of the animating principles of his political existence, is anyone's guess because it certainly hasn't gotten very far during this presidential election.
ACOSTA: Yes, and Scott, you know, our colleague, Dana Bash, she caught up with Nikki Haley earlier today. And Nikki Haley still sounds very confident. This is what she said to Dana.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: If it's Donald Trump, will you support him as the nominee still?
HALEY: It's going to be me. We've got New Hampshire. We've got South Carolina. We've got Super Tuesday. We're going to keep on going, and we're going to fight and we're going to win.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: But, you know, down in South Carolina, which is the next big contest after New Hampshire, the polls show that she's trailing Trump there as well. Did Haley and DeSantis really just miss the moment? I know you were saying that he was, sort of, catching fire a little too late. But, you know, I look at this video that DeSantis put out, where he takes a shot at Nikki Haley. I'm not sure why you do that if you're dropping out of a race. What's the point, you know, at that point?
He was very comfortable going after Nikki Haley throughout this process, not so much with Donald Trump. Was that just a tactical error, do you think?
JENNINGS: Well, I think it speaks to the fact that he and Trump were fishing off the same pier. I mean, he was trying to attract some of the voters that had originally been attracted to Trump. But on the theory that they were ready to move on from Trump or that they were afraid that sticking with Trump would cause the Republican Party to once again lose to Joe Biden and the Democrats.
[18:05:07]
The thing about that presumption, though, was that Republicans came to believe that Trump's issues that DeSantis kept bringing up were -- that's the referendum they actually do want and that the national polling showing Trump beating Biden was enough to allay their fears about possibly losing again. So, you know, I think the presumptions or the, you know, sort of underlying theory of the case just turned out that Republican voters didn't believe that.
And it really left him with nothing much left to argue except for effectiveness. You know, he went out and said, I did these things as governor of Florida. I promised. I delivered. Donald Trump made promises and he ultimately couldn't deliver. That was really the one thing that stood out for me in this campaign.
But Republicans, I think, set all the issues aside and just said the only way for us to get euphoric vindication for all the wrongs that have been done to Donald Trump is to nominate him again. And I think that's what they're going to do.
ACOSTA: And we saw Marc Caputo with us. I see his shot freeze there. Marc, are you still there? Marc, you're still there. You know, DeSantis, the other thing that he did in that video is he threw his support behind Donald Trump today. But, I mean, that happened very quickly. It wasn't all that long ago he was starting to go after Trump. Let's listen to that. We lost that sound bite. I can tell you what it says. I mean, he was
saying this just a week ago. He was saying, you can be the most worthless Republican in America, if you kiss the ring, Trump will say you are wonderful. Isn't that what he did today? He kissed the ring.
CAPUTO: Yes, and Trump is saying he's wonderful. It's a self- fulfilling prophecy. One of the advisers of DeSantis have told me before the Iowa caucus that one of the things they were hoping to tell DeSantis is, A, the polls are real, B, you're going to lose big, and C, why don't you just quit on caucus night, last Monday, and endorse Trump all in one fail swoop because it's better to eat -- and I'm going to use the word crap. It's better to eat the crap sandwich in one bite than to swallow it in little pieces.
ACOSTA: Yes.
CAPUTO: And what you saw here was DeSantis doing just that. DeSantis clearly almost looked like an artificial intelligence animatronic Ron DeSantis with the, you know, more of a smile, more rehearsed, just getting through it, and had the quality of, kind of, a hostage who's told to be happy, to accept his fate, he's going to escape these prison cells or these walls. And so he did his part.
He swallowed that crap sandwich whole in the words of his advisers. And now he's done his duty. This way the media is not going to constantly hound him as to when he's going to bend the knee, kiss the ring, and swallow the sandwich. We've seen it all.
ACOSTA: Yes, I mean, he certainly took his medicine all in one gulp. I understand Jeff Zeleny is on the line with us as well. Jeff Zeleny is out there on the campaign trail. He must be in New Hampshire. I see the piles of snow behind him.
Jeff, I guess there are more hotel rooms available in Manchester tonight than there were maybe 24, 48 hours ago. What is your sense of how this, sort of, imploded for Ron DeSantis?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: I mean, it is the biggest implosion and really month by month of really than any presidential campaign I can recall. Someone who started out with so much promise, so much money, really barely limping out of Iowa and of course not even making it to New Hampshire. But if you think back to a year ago, he really was even leading Donald Trump in some polls, as we've said.
So it was the textbook case of the outsourcing your campaign to a super PAC, which he did. Clearly not the best idea. But just as a candidate, he only really came into his own over the last couple of months or so. When I was really seeing a real growth by him on the campaign trail. But of course by then, it was too late.
In terms of him kissing the ring, I mean, he said, look, he signed the pledge that he would support the Republican nominee, so now that's what he's going to do. But he's also going back to Florida as governor of a very major state. And his -- you know, hopes there will be a future. But of course that's very much an open question. 2028 is a long time from now, and who knows what will happen between now and then.
In the short-term, though, I'm told that he was talking with donors between the Iowa and New Hampshire period here. He wanted to keep going, but it became clear over the last couple of days that simply there was not the financial support and that there simply was not the path for that. So, Jim, it's extraordinary. As we head into the second primary, there are two candidates left in this race. So it's dramatically different than 2016, when there was still a very large field here.
ACOSTA: Yes.
ZELENY: But it is still Donald Trump's to lose. And it does not seem like that will happen.
ACOSTA: Yes. And Jeff, I know you covered a lot of campaigns. And I was thinking about this, and I could ask the rest of the guys this as well, but I'll start with you, Jeff. I mean, I'm trying to scratch my head and remember the last time a nominating contest got down to two candidates like this this early.
[18:10:05]
I mean, this is happening early. Typically it's maybe after South Carolina or Florida or around Super Tuesday. It just shows you how the field is really narrowing down to basically Donald Trump at this point.
ZELENY: Without a question. I mean, there is no example like this in history. History does not also have an example of someone winning Iowa and New Hampshire and not going on to be the nominee. Usually there has been a reverse of showing. That's why New Hampshire it still holds the possibility to surprise here. Let's not get ahead of things. We remember -- I remember coming in here in 2008 on the Democratic side, Barack Obama after winning Iowa, Hillary Clinton got third place in Iowa.
Everyone assumed that Senator Obama would win. He did not win in New Hampshire. So, look, something could happen. But history is not our best guide here because there is a former president who is essentially an incumbent in this race. That's why this race is so dramatically different. So Iowa effectively did its job in terms of winnowing the field dramatically so almost before the voting even began.
But there is no historical reference that we can draw upon here because of the -- really the weight of Donald Trump in this contest. It has been different from the very, very, very beginning. But Nikki Haley, for her part, I think very few people would have said it would have come down to Donald Trump and Nikki Haley. And that's exactly what it is, Jim.
ACOSTA: Yes, and Scott, I mean, your analysis of what went wrong ultimately for Ron DeSantis, I mean, the question I have is, was he too managed? Was he too focus-grouped? Is sometimes bigger not always better? He had all this money. He had a massive super PAC. And maybe all of those things just didn't really matter all that much because he just wasn't that great of a candidate. What's your sense of it?
JENNINGS: Well, that would presume that anyone was ever destined to beat Donald Trump. I mean, one of the things that happened is that these candidates got into this race against Trump on the presumption that he was weak or that Republican voters were ready to move on. And he ended up in the middle of all these legal entanglements, which for anyone else on planet earth would have killed off his candidacy. But for Donald Trump it was like he was in "Fast and Furious" and he hit the nitrous. I mean, that's what happened to his campaign. And DeSantis, Haley, none of them ever came up with a real answer for it.
I will say on the timing, you know, on election night 2022, DeSantis, there was a moment and there was a few weeks where he had a moment and Trump was down, DeSantis was ascending. But he waited almost 200 days to launch his presidential campaign. And in that intervening period, Trump re-coagulated himself. He started to have the legal issues. He got a little boost from those engagements.
But by the time DeSantis got into the race ultimately in late May of 2023, Trump had already sort of found a way to rebuild himself and reassert his position in the Republican Party. So, politics is often about timing, and there was a window for DeSantis. And I kind of think he missed it.
ACOSTA: Yes, I mean, Marc, your sense of it? Because, I mean, there was so much confidence in the air around Ron DeSantis. And I just wonder, did they get high on their own fumes?
CAPUTO: Oh, certainly. I think there's like an old Chinese proverb that says, he who swaggers stumbles. There was a lot of swagger with Ron DeSantis. He didn't want to listen to advice, he created advice and consulting structures were only the advice he wanted. Got to him. He would ignore data. He would ignore people who tell him, look, be relatable to voters. He would say, oh, that doesn't matter.
He was told, don't sign the six-week abortion ban. He signed a 15-week one. He said, well, Iowa evangelicals care about that. We just saw Iowa evangelicals break heavily toward Donald Trump. Many example of that.
ACOSTA: Yes. He was campaigning as governor, right, Marc? I mean, I'm not -- he was campaigning as governor. He was doing performative things as governor that he felt would be appealing out on the campaign trail.
CAPUTO: Right. In my state of Florida, we are 10 media markets. We're a giant state. And when you win a statewide race here, you generally win by dumping tons of money on television, having some rallies, and having a few debates. It's basically a televised affair. And it's stage management, very scripted.
When you run for president, it is a national campaign with the national media watching you in small retail politic states, namely Iowa and South Carolina, where you're forced to interact with regular people and anything can happen. And what happened with DeSantis, like he was so unready for it that he got flummoxed by a 15-year-old kid. What did the DeSantis campaign do in New Hampshire? They threw him out of a town hall.
This is not a campaign that was built to last and it wasn't a candidate who is ready to take the blows that Donald Trump rained down upon him, nor was he able to throw his own punches as well.
ACOSTA: All right. Well, Jeff, Scott and Marc, great analysis, all of you. Thank you so much. Really appreciate it. Jeff, stay warm. We'll have you back later on the program if you're still around. Thanks a lot.
Still ahead, the Trump and Haley campaigns are reacting to DeSantis dropping out. We're going live to our reporters on the ground next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:19:18]
ACOSTA: More now on the major shakeup to the Republican presidential race, just two days ahead of New Hampshire primary, as Ron DeSantis exits the race and endorses Donald Trump.
CNN's Alayna Treene is with the Trump campaign in Rochester.
Alayna, how are they reacting?
ALAYNA TREENE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, I am told -- my colleague Kristen Holmes and I are told that Donald Trump is expected to address DeSantis dropping out of the campaign soon when he is delivering remarks. He'll be just behind me in a few moments at 7:00 p.m. And we're told that he's going to bring it up pretty early on in his speech and address it.
Now we did hear from the former president as well. He gave an interview to FOX News digital, where he said that he was very honored to receive Ron DeSantis' endorsement. And he also said that he looks forward to working with him.
[18:20:04]
Now, Jim, I had talked to the Trump campaign advisers shortly after DeSantis had announced that he was bowing out of the race, and they told me that they had, kind of, been planning over the last 24 hours for DeSantis to suspend his campaign. They had been hearing rumblings about it and had preplanned some statements ahead of his dropping out. And then of course you saw them issue their own statement as well once that happened.
They wrote in a statement this afternoon, quote, "With only a few days left until President Donald J. Trump's victory in New Hampshire, we are honored by the endorsement from Governor Ron DeSantis and so many other former presidential candidates." The statement went on to attack Nikki Haley.
Now I think a big question to pay attention to and to look for, Jim, is how do they move forward with Ron DeSantis? We know that Donald Trump had viciously attacked the Florida governor for months leading up to the Iowa caucuses. He really was the sole target of Donald Trump's attacks for most of 2024. And part of that was because the Trump campaign was concerned about how DeSantis was doing. But it was also because Donald Trump had some personal issues with DeSantis.
He found him disloyal for running for president after Trump had endorsed him for governor in 2017. And so I think a big question that I'm looking for is, you know, will they embrace Ron DeSantis? Will they embrace Ron DeSantis? Will they potentially use him as a surrogate moving forward. These are all questions that I think we're still looking to be answered.
ACOSTA: Yes. I'm guessing at some point the Trump campaign is going to want to see Ron DeSantis out on the campaign trail, on that stage with Donald Trump at some point, I assume. We will see that in the days and weeks to come.
Alayna Treene, thank you very much.
Now to CNN's Kylie Atwood with the Nikki Haley campaign.
Kylie, what are they saying?
KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, listen, Nikki Haley has long been saying that this is a two-person race between her and former President Trump. She said that that was going to be the case in New Hampshire. Well, now it actually is the case in New Hampshire. Of course they're, you know, welcoming the news that DeSantis dropped out, with Haley saying that he ran a good race, he was a good governor. But now it is one fella, former President Trump, and one lady, herself, who are competing.
Her message to DeSantis supporters is, you know, that they are going to get a new generational leader with her, that she's going to be someone to win the general election, their best bet to do so. Listen to what Nikki Haley told our colleague CNN Dana Bash about that earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HALEY: I think that they love America, and I think they want a new generational leader. And so I am telling them that I am that new generational leader. And I'm the conservative that can get it done. Look at the fact that we could actually win. And I think that's what Ron DeSantis' supporters want. They don't want to lose.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ATWOOD: Now another thing that we've seen Nikki Haley do over the course of the last few days here in New Hampshire is really ramp up her attacks on former President Trump, going after his mental fitness, questioning that after he had a mix-up at a campaign rally, confusing her with former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi.
She doubled down on questions about his mental fitness in interview with CBS News earlier today, talking about confusion that he's had in the past. So one thing we'll be watching for is, does she really lean into being that anti-Trump voice? She has been critical of him throughout her campaign when it comes to his policies. But she's also said that he was the right president at the right time, and really steered clear of going after his mental fitness or the legal troubles that he is in.
Does she feel like she needs to do that now? That's what of course we'll be watching for, as her campaign is really, you know, in a moment of urgency, doing events across the state here in New Hampshire, just two days out from the primary, where they hope that she'll do quite well.
ACOSTA: Yes. A lot of pressure on Nikki Haley now to do well in Tuesday's primary.
Kylie Atwood, thank you very much for that report.
Still ahead, coming up next, Rob Reiner, the producer of the new documentary "God and Country: The Rise of Christian Nationalism," there he is right there, the Hollywood legend, joins us live in just a few moments. What he thinks of the state of the Republican Party. And oh, that news today that Ron DeSantis is dropping out of the race. We'll talk about that as well.
Stay with us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:28:29]
ACOSTA: Nikki Haley is hoping to go into New Hampshire with new momentum, as Florida Governor Ron DeSantis drops out of the Republican race.
Joining me now to talk about this, actor, producer, filmmaker, Rob Reiner.
Your latest project an in-depth look at Christian nationalism in this country, its effect on politics among other things. I want to talk about that in just a moment, but I guess, Rob, your reaction to DeSantis dropping out. What do you think?
ROB REINER, FILMMAKER, ACTOR AND PRODUCER: Well, I mean, he's going to lose anyway and he was going to lose big in New Hampshire. The thing that I find odd is that he's making a calculation now that since Trump is the -- he runs the party, it's Trump's party, that somehow he's going to ingratiate himself with Donald Trump. But a friend of mine, who's a former Republican strategist, Rick Wilson, said everything Trump touches dies.
So it may be transactional for the time being. But if he's angling for either a cabinet position or vice presidential on the vice- presidential ticket, I think he's signing his own death warrant here because it's not going to lead to anything good.
ACOSTA: Yes, and Rob, I know you've been a tough critic of Donald Trump for a long time now. Did you ever think that we would be back in this place where Trump is on the verge of wrapping up this nomination? Of course people have to go out and vote in New Hampshire, we'll see what happens on Tuesday. But that seems to be the path that he's on right now.
REINER: Yes. No, I never thought it. I mean, the one thing that we've seen over the course from 2016 until now is that the courts upheld that any time it gets to an adjudication, they rule against Trump. So the hope is that, at a certain point, that will come to the fore with all of these federal charges that are -- you know, that are being heaped on him.
[18:30:22]
Now the problem is the only one that has a chance of coming to fruition is possibly Jack Smith's January 6th case. And Trump is doing everything he can to push it on down the road. The reason he's doing that is because he wants to stay out of jail. This is not about, you know, I want to be the president because I'm going to make this country great again or anything. This is pure and simple for him. I've got to get out of jail.
So the hope is he can push that trial off until after the election in November. Then maybe even if he gets convicted he can pardon himself because the fact of the matter is, if he does get convicted before November, then he is going to lose the election. There are just not going to be people that are going to say, yes, I'll vote for a convicted felon. He's not going to lose his base. His base will stay with him. But there will be plenty of people that say enough is enough.
ACOSTA: Well, and the Republican Party is by and large lining up behind Donald Trump at this point. The head of the Republican Senate Campaign Committee announced earlier today that he thinks that the party should start coalescing behind Donald Trump and that the primary process is effectively over. And one of the reasons why we're seeing a lot of that is a lot of leading Republicans in this country are just getting behind Donald Trump.
And lo and behold, it was Ron DeSantis himself who was criticizing a lot of this just a week ago. Let's listen to that and talk about it on the other side.
Do we have that bite? We don't have that bite.
REINER: Don't have the bite.
ACOSTA: We don't have the bite.
REINER: You don't have the bite.
ACOSTA: Rob, we don't have that bite. We do? Can we play it?
REINER: You do have the bite.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I learned that the fetus would have a fatal condition and that there was absolutely no chance of survival.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: All right. Rob, obviously some technical problems. But DeSantis said a week ago --
REINER: That's a different bite.
ACOSTA: Yes, exactly. A lot of Republicans coming out and kissing the ring with Donald Trump. And then all is forgiven. Essentially that's what's happening inside the Republican -- he said that a week. Let's listen to it now. We have it now. Director says we have it now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DESANTIS: And so for Donald Trump, he's running a candidate -- he's running a campaign about putting himself and his issues first. That's what he cares about. You can be the most worthless Republican in America, but if you kiss the ring, he'll say you're wonderful. You can be the strongest, most dynamic, successful Republican and conservative in America, but if you don't kiss that ring, then he'll try to trash you. You know what? You deserve a nominee that's going to put you first, not himself first.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: And yet, Rob, in his announcement earlier today, DeSantis got behind Trump.
REINER: Yes, he did a swift 180. And they all seem to be doing that. But I think we're coming down to an election where we're going to make a choice. We're either going to choose democracy or we're going to choose fascism, autocracy. And I think history is going to treat these people very badly for supporting Trump. You know, he's a politician. He's going to say one thing, he's going to say another.
Nikki Haley, if she loses, she's going to wrap her arms around Donald Trump. All that stuff's going to happen. Maybe she wants to run and be a vice president. Who knows? But ultimately it's not going to help. None of this is going to help. And he'll turn on a dime against them as soon as he doesn't like what they say about him.
ACOSTA: And Rob, one of the reasons why Trump has been so dominant is because of the way he's been able to get his base back behind him once again. And part of that coalition, obviously, are evangelical voters.
Let's talk about this documentary that you've produced, "God and Country," that looks into the growing movement of Christian nationalism in the U.S., its hold on politics. Let's take a look at the clip.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROB SCHENCK, EVANGELICAL PASTOR, FORMER PRO-LIFE LEADER: Evangelical enterprises raise billions of dollars. We're not talking about millions or even hundreds of millions anymore, but billions of dollars in mostly $10 to $25 contributions. The way you get those contributions is by ginning up fear and anger.
When I was an activist on the religious right, I would meet with fundraisers. I would hear from them, you've got to give me plenty of fear and anger. I need to make your people as mad as hell and frightened to go to sleep at night because when they're that afraid, they're going to send you a lot of money.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[18:35:07]
ACOSTA: Yes, Rob, tell us a little bit about the gentleman we just saw there and the message that you're trying to get across with this documentary.
REINER: Rob Schenk, he's a pastor. He's an evangelical. And I think it's important that we point out, we're not trashing Christianity with this film. It's the exact opposite. Because what we have is we have very prominent, conservative Christian leaders speaking out against Christian nationalism because they think it undermines the teachings of Jesus and the teachings of Christianity and the church.
They see Christian nationalism not only as a danger to democracy but as a danger to Christianity itself. And it's not me saying that. I'm a liberal, people know that I'm a liberal. It's not me saying that. You watch the documentary. You'll see very, very respected, conservative Christian leaders talking about the danger of Christian nationalism, which is not a religious movement. It's a political movement.
It's all about politics and gaining power. And it is a very dangerous, not only for the country, but for Christianity itself.
ACOSTA: And so, what do the president -- President Biden, his team, Democrats, the Democratic Party, candidates on the Democratic side, and Senate and House races, what do they need to do to get their message out? Because I know that you're very prominent in politics out in California. We have you on from time to time to talk about this stuff. Are you confident that the president can win re-election?
REINER: Yes. Yes. I think the only wildcard in all this is third party candidates. Everybody knows that it's not a national election. It's run state by state. There are only going to be between five and eight states in play in this next election. And the question is, in those states that are very narrow one way or the other, is a third-party candidate, like No Labels, like Robert Kennedy, Jr., are they going to draw more votes from Trump or from Biden?
Polls show that they will draw more from Biden. So if in a very close race in Arizona, Nevada, Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, the states we all know are battleground states, if those third party candidates can shave enough votes, Trump losing the popular vote by up to 10 million votes, which is very possible, he lost the last one by seven million votes.
ACOSTA: Right. REINER: He could lose by 10 million votes and still win the election.
That's the trick. Other than that, if it's head-to-head, up and down between Trump and Biden, I don't think Trump has a chance.
ACOSTA: All right. Rob Reiner, great to have you on as always. Thanks so much. Appreciate the time.
REINER: Thanks, Jim.
ACOSTA: All right. Good to see you. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:42:14]
ACOSTA: Donald Trump is once again painting a dark picture of America, as he tries to win over voters through fear ahead of the 2024 election. This was him last night at a New Hampshire rally praising an authoritarian leader, who is known for threatening democratic values in Europe.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There's a great man, a great leader in Europe, Viktor Orban. He's the prime minister of Hungary. He's a very great leader, very strong man. Some people don't like him because he's too strong. It's nice to have a strong man running your country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: Joining me now is Ruth Ben-Ghiat, she's a history professor at NYU, author of the book, "Strong Men: Mussolini to the Present."
Ruth, when you heard those comments -- I mean, we've heard him praise Viktor Orban before, and I guess he's hinted at these things around the edges but saying that maybe America might like a strong man sounds like a preview of coming attractions.
RUTH BEN-GHIAT, PROFESSOR OF HISTORY, NYU: Absolutely. And Trump has always had a thing for Orban because Orban has been very successful in instituting what's called electoral autocracy, where you keep elections going, but you purge the judiciary, the election machinery, judges, so that the result is weighted to come out the way you need it to. He's also domesticated about 85 percent of the media, so the opposition's message isn't even heard.
So all of this is very appealing to Trump. But, you know, now he's praising Orban in the context of praising also one-party state leaders like, you know, Xi Jinping and Putin. And he's making a whole push to educate Americans to find authoritarian rule and strong men rule as something positive, as something necessary. And that's very, very disturbing.
ACOSTA: Well, and last night he was also talking about this question of presidential immunity. As you know, Ruth, he has been advocating for weeks now that he should have total immunity, that presidents should have total immunity. And he even added a wrinkle to it this past week on Truth Social when he said, even when events cross the line. But last night he talked about it in a certain way. Let's listen to that, talk about that as well.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: You will have the rogue -- we thought the rogue cop, the bad apple, and perhaps you'll have that also with president. But there's nothing you can do about that. You're going to have to give the president -- you're going to have to allow a president, any president, to have immunity so that that president can act and do what he feels and what his group of advisers feel is the absolute right thing. Otherwise, you're going to have presidents that are totally impotent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[18:45:01]
ACOSTA: So, Ruth, he's just saying this out in the open. You might have bad apple -- a bad apple in the White House.
BEN-GHIAT: So --
ACOSTA: Yes.
BEN-GHIAT: Yes. This is the essence of authoritarianism, which brings lawless people into power and basically arranges the political system so the executive can do what he wants without paying any consequences. And you domesticate -- you take away the political independence of the judiciary, and the executive has immunity to both make past crimes go away forever but also commit future crimes and pay no consequences.
So it is the institutionalization of lawlessness actually. So it was very -- I've always written about this. It was very interesting to hear him talk about having a rogue cop or a lawless figure as president. And of course this is part of the appeal for many people, to have somebody who's a rogue figure.
ACOSTA: Yes. And Ruth, I mean, these comments from Trump came last night. Not even 24 hours later, Ron DeSantis drops out of the presidential race, endorses him. And DeSantis, to some extent, down in Florida was trying to emulate Trump in ways that people thought were, sort of, in a strong man fashion. Are you surprised by how easy this has been for Trump to essentially be in the driver seat here?
BEN-GHIAT: Sadly, I'm not, because many of the things that have happened, the dynamics within the Republican Party, are truly understandable only according to authoritarian dynamics. Such as -- and I will never forget this -- the first GOP debate, when everybody but two of the candidates raised their hand, totally undermining their own power, and said they would support Donald Trump, their rival, even if he became a convicted felon.
This is not normal. This is not what happens in democracies. And so DeSantis, you know, said, yes, you have to kiss his ring, which is an interesting mafia-adjacent terminology, then promptly endorsed him because the cult leadership thing that Donald Trump has, which comes from authoritarian tradition, is very strong, is very robust, and it's driving the organization of this campaign.
ACOSTA: All right. Ruth Ben-Ghiat, as always, we appreciate your insights and expertise. Please come back again. Thanks for your time.
BEN-GHIAT: Always nice to speak with you.
ACOSTA: Thank you. All right. Still ahead, top Trump ally Congressman Jim Jordan says a border deal that Trump opposes would be a, quote, "non-starter." Why the former president is making it harder to get a deal to enhance security down at the border. We'll talk about that next.
You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.
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[18:52:13]
ACOSTA: Breaking news just into CNN.
After a 10-day surge, U.S. Central Command tonight says two Navy SEALs who went missing off the coast of Somalia earlier this month are dead. The sailors disappeared after an attempt to board a vessel in search of illegal Iranian weapons. One fell into the water due to eight-foot swells and the second jumped in after. The U.S. Military says they were unable to locate the sailors after an exhaustive search.
This week Senate leaders are hoping for a compromise on multiple funding packages that they say will address the border dispute in Texas as well as funding for Ukraine and Israel.
Here's CNN's Manu Raju.
MANU RAJU, CNN ANCHOR: Jim, this is a significant week here in Washington because Senate leaders are hoping that a fragile compromise can be put together on the issue of immigration, dealing with the surge of migrants at the southern border. And the reason why this is so significant, not just because of the problems at the border but also because this is tied to the issue of Ukraine aid as well as Israel aid.
Republicans say that immigration, border security must be dealt with first before they green light more aid to Ukraine, and riding along with that aid to Israel. So Senate leaders want to put together a major package on the Senate floor that includes an immigration proposal as well as aid to Ukraine and Israel.
But here's the problem that they have to get it through both chambers of Congress. And already the former president is weighing in. Donald Trump saying that Republicans should not accept anything less than a, quote, "perfect deal." And that is raising real fears among proponents of this package that Trump could sway enough on the fence Republicans to oppose this issue as well as the speaker of the House to essentially scuttle any sort of Senate deal.
And that is what some Republicans frankly say that Donald Trump's weight will carry. His voice will carry significant weight. That's why Jim Jordan, who is one of Donald Trump's top allies and influential voice among House Republicans, told me that if Donald Trump opposes this plan, essentially, it will put the nail in the coffin.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: If Trump came out against it today, how much harder is that going to be to get a compromise through Congress?
REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): That makes a huge difference. He is the leader of the party. He's going to be our nominee. I think he's going to be the next president. So, yes, that makes a huge difference. Yes. I just don't -- I think it's a non-starter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: And then you're hearing from a lot of Republicans on the right who say that they will not accept any sort of compromise. That is what one member told me just last week, Congressman Tim Burchett of Tennessee.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. TIM BURCHETT (R-TN): There's no compromise there. We are losing our country. And I think that until we accept that premise, it's going to continue going down the tubes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: Now those are the problems on the right. There are still problems on the left. Some folks on the left, progressives, are worried that Joe Biden is simply giving in way too much to Republicans and offering way too many restrictive immigration policies in exchange for getting aid to Ukraine.
[18:55:02]
And there could be a revolt on the left, which raises so many questions about whether a coalition could come together and get this package through Congress at this critical, critical moment for Ukraine as we're seeing problems with the border. And as the campaign season heats up, raising questions and concerns that all of it could collapse in the heat of the 2024 campaign season -- Jim.
ACOSTA: All right, Manu, thanks.
Still ahead, Ron DeSantis dropping out of the race for president. More on the breaking news when we come back. Stay with us.
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ACOSTA: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Acosta.
