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Trump Praises DeSantis for Dropping Out and Endorsing Him; Nikki Haley Hopes to Gain DeSantis Supporters; DeSantis Drops Out, Leaving Haley as Sole Trump Challenger; Ukrainian Strikes Killed At Least 28, Injured 30 in Russian-Controlled Donetsk; DNC Reacts to DeSantis Dropping Out of Republican Primary; Detroit's Historic Playoff Push. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired January 21, 2024 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[20:00:48]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington.

We begin with the breaking news this hour. The race for the Republican nomination down to just two candidates after Florida governor Ron DeSantis suspended his presidential campaign just two days before the critical New Hampshire primary, and endorsed Donald Trump. Moments ago, the former president addressed supporters in New Hampshire and he thanked DeSantis for his support.

All right, CNN's Alayna Treene is with the Trump campaign in New Hampshire.

Alayna, the rally is still going on. What's Trump saying?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Well, Jim, he addressed Ron DeSantis dropping out of the race at the very top of his speech tonight. And he thanked Ron DeSantis for his endorsement. He called it, quote, "gracious" of him to give him his endorsement. And he also argued that DeSantis ran a very good campaign. Take a listen to how Trump put it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Before we begin, I'd like to take time to congratulate Ron DeSantis. And of course a really terrific person who I've gotten to know his wife, for having run a great campaign for president. He did. He ran a really good campaign. I will tell you. It's not easy. They think it's easy doing this stuff. Right? It's not easy. But as you know, he left the campaign trail today at 3:00 p.m., and in so doing, he was very gracious and he endorsed me so I appreciated that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TREENE: Now, Jim, what a difference a few hours make. I mean, this weekend, we had heard Donald Trump rail against Ron DeSantis in a series of his speeches. But just hours after he dropped out and gave Donald Trump his endorsement, Trump is singing a different tune now.

I think it's worth noting that that was actually the first time in months that Donald Trump had actually referred to the Florida governor by his name, Ron DeSantis, rather than the nickname that Trump has given him which is Ron DeSanctimonious. Very noteworthy I think for someone like me who goes to many of Donald Trump's rallies, I have not heard him use Ron DeSantis' real name in a very long time.

Now I do just want to talk about, though, the attitude in which Donald Trump is approaching this. And I think it's a very stark contrast to what we've of course seen over the past year. I mean, DeSantis is someone that Donald Trump had attacked for several months, that most viciously attacked him, I'd argue, in the lead-up to Iowa. And part of that was because the Trump campaign was concerned about his candidate at one point, but also because it was very personal to Donald Trump.

And from my conversations with Trump's advisers, they argue that it's still unclear whether or not the Trump campaign will actually embrace DeSantis as a potential surrogate. But I can tell you that as of now there are no plans for DeSantis to join him on the campaign trail.

ACOSTA: All right. Very interesting. Alayna Treene, thank you very much.

Ron DeSantis is throwing his support behind Donald Trump. But what about Nikki Haley? No, she is still fighting it out, hoping that her supporters come out in droves in the New Hampshire primary. Earlier today Nikki Haley spoke with our colleague Dana Bash about Ron DeSantis dropping out. And here's some of that conversation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIKKI HALEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Look, I have said I think that Ron ran a good race. I know it's personal to get into a race. It's personal to get out of a race. He's been a good governor and he added a lot to the campaign, and we wish him well.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: OK, when he dropped out, part of what he said was he reminded everybody that he signed a pledge to support the Republican nominee, honor that pledge, he, meaning Donald Trump, has my endorsement because we can't go back to the old Republican guard of yesteryear or repackage form of warmed over corporatism that Nikki Haley represents.

That's tough stuff on his way out the door.

HALEY: You know, and it's interesting because there's no proof to that. These fellows say this because they want people to believe it. But what's amazing to me is they think they can lie to the American people and the American people are going to believe it. Prove it. Prove one thing that they have said. Prove the fact that Donald Trump says I want to cut Social Security or raise the age. I've never said that.

Prove the fact that Donald Trump says I want to raise gas taxes. I've never said that or done that. Prove that Ron DeSantis says that I'm a corporate whatever he says I am. I have never done that.

[20:05:05]

I was in South Carolina, we fought for the people every day. There's a reason that you don't see the legislature lining up behind me in South Carolina. It's because I fought to get them to vote on the record. I fought to have them do ethics reform. I've vetoed half a billion dollars' worth of their pork projects, and then you see Congress. The reason Congress doesn't support us is I've pushed for term limits. I've pushed for mental competency test.

I've said if they don't give us a budget on time, they don't get paid. I don't get that political elite. That's what we need to be talking about. Not the corporate stuff that they are talking about. The fact that they all side together against the people is what I'm doing. I'm going to continue to fight for the people.

There were 14 people in this race. And now there are two. I'm going to finish this so Joe Biden and Donald Trump are not an issue at all. That we actually put them in the past and we go forward. Because our country deserves it. And Americans want it. They're tired.

I don't think we need to have two 80-year-olds sitting in the White House when we've basically got to make sure that we can handle the war situation that we're in. We need to know they're at the top of their game, we need to know that they can take care of our national security and our economy. Right now I don't know that people feel like that with either one. So that's why we're giving them a choice.

BASH: What's your message to Ron DeSantis' supporters who are still out there? Let's just start in New Hampshire. At our latest poll this morning, he was at 6 percent. So we're not talking about a big slice of the electorate. But they are out there. He just endorsed Donald Trump. What's your message to them about why they should vote for you?

HALEY: I think that they love America. And I think they want a new generational leader. And so I am telling them that I am that new generational leader. And I'm the conservative that can get it done. And we're going to go and make sure that we get spending under control. We're going to get our kids reading again and have transparency in the classroom. We're going to secure our border once and for all. No more excuses.

We're going to bring law and order back to this country. But guess what else we're going to do? We're the only one in a general election that beats Joe Biden. Even if you look at the poll yesterday that came out in New Hampshire. General election, Trump loses to Biden by seven points here in New Hampshire. I beat Biden. Look at every swing state. I beat Biden. I beat him by up to 17 points.

This is a fact we don't want a President Kamala Harris. That should send a chill up everybody's spine. So instead, look at the fact that we could actually win. And I think that's what Ron DeSantis' supporters want. They don't want to lose. They don't want a President Kamala Harris. And they also want a new generational leader. And we give them all of that. (END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: All right. Let's discuss with CNN senior political analyst and senior editor of "The Atlantic," Ron Brownstein.

Ron, a lot happened today. What's your sense of it? What happened?

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. Well, look, you know, Ron DeSantis ran on a very specific theory of the case, that he was going to build a coalition from the right in. He was going to peel away core Trump voters by running to his right, particularly on cultural issues. And he was going to be the last alternative standing. And then in their theory, the centrist parts of the party most resistant to Trump would have no choice but to rally around DeSantis, even if they didn't like many of his positions.

And that theory crashed and burned. You know, you saw in Iowa, he only won about 10 percent of voters who identified as part of the MAGA movement so he failed to crack the Trump base. But in the process, he alienated a lot of the voters in the center and left the room for Haley to emerge. I don't think -- as, you know, Dana was talking about with Nikki Haley, there aren't really enough DeSantis supporters in New Hampshire or South Carolina to make a big difference.

ACOSTA: Right.

BROWNSTEIN: The risk to Haley is that him endorsing Trump, you know, kind of reinforces this image that the party is coalescing and basically saying it's time to shut this down, somewhat similar to what happened around Biden in March of 2020.

ACOSTA: Yes. And Ron, I mean, it was just a week ago when Ron DeSantis was sounding a bit cranky about members of his party coalescing behind the former president.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

ACOSTA: And here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And so for Donald Trump, he's running a candidate -- he's running a campaign about putting himself and his issues first. That's what he cares about. You can be the most worthless Republican in America, but if you kiss the ring, he'll say you're wonderful. You can be the strongest, most dynamic, successful Republican and conservative in America, but if you don't kiss that ring, then he'll try to trash you. You know what? You deserve a nominee that's going to put you first, not himself first.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Now, Ron, I mean, when DeSantis put out that video earlier today, he did not have to endorse Trump. But there was a ring kissing quality to it. BROWNSTEIN: There -- you picked the exact right bite there, Jim,

because that's what I was going to mention.

ACOSTA: Yes.

BROWNSTEIN: Trump's remarks today about DeSantis validated DeSantis' remarks last week about Trump. Right?

ACOSTA: Right.

BROWNSTEIN: I mean, you know, DeSantis was a loser, DeSanctimonious, you know, a failed governor who never would have been elected if not for me, and all of a sudden he's a statesman who ran a great campaign.

[20:10:10]

And it is a reminder that, you know, for Trump, much liked, you know, a Medieval court or something, there really is only one qualification for leadership, absolute loyalty and sublimation to the leader. I mean, it's really about bending the knee. And, you know, once you do that, you're in the graces, and as long as you don't do that, it doesn't matter what else you're doing.

You know, that was a potentially powerful argument from DeSantis if he had waited -- if he had not waited until the weekend before the Iowa caucus to unveil it and you see where he is today.

ACOSTA: And one thing that DeSantis did this weekend by bowing out of the race is he did sort of throw a lifeline to the former president a little bit who is going through a rocky news cycle somewhat heading into this New Hampshire primary. He had that notable gaffe Friday night when he was confusing Nikki Haley with Nancy Pelosi. And then earlier today at this rally, he was saying that he's just fine, he's not cognitively impaired.

If we have that bite, we could play it and talk about it on the -- we don't have it just yet. I can -- he says, they are trying to say he's cognitively impaired because when I use -- when I talk about Barack Hussein Obama, he's using the former president's middle name, when he gets Obama confused with Joe Biden. Trump is claiming that he's not cognitively impaired when he says that. But just the other night, he confused Nikki Haley with Nancy Pelosi. And there have been a series of these. And then of course the news cycle changes with DeSantis getting out of the race.

BROWNSTEIN: Well, you know, my feeling watching this week has been that Haley first of all deserves a lot of credit for being the last person standing in this race. I mean, she's on, you know, a stage with a lot of men, most of whom are better known than her. And she is the one who outlasted all of them. And there is a perseverance and I'm sure a loneliness of trying to take on Donald Trump at a point when so many in the party are coalescing around him, for their own reasons.

In many cases like the South Carolina contingent who came up here yesterday. But having said all that, what she has shown this week is that she will go so far and no further in directly challenging Trump. She is comfortable challenging Trump on issues where she does not have to express a value judgment about him. She talks about generational change. She talks about electability.

And this week, she has raised this issue of mental acuity as part of her effort to link him to Biden.

ACOSTA: Right.

BROWNSTEIN: Where she pulls back, though, is, you know, where Dana asked her earlier this week about the E. Jean Carroll case, and she said, I don't know anything about it, which is pretty implausible, or when a gaggle of reporters, we asked her Friday at a diner in Amherst about Trump's, you know, birther type arguments against her and racial dog-whistling, and she said, well, I'll leave it to the voters to decide what he means. I was really struck Friday night --

ACOSTA: Yes, is there a hesitancy, Ron, to throw the knockout punch?

BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

ACOSTA: Is it about -- I mean, just being hesitant to throw the knockout punch?

BROWNSTEIN: Yes. Look, I think -- you know, I think she is -- as I said, she will go so far and no further. What I wrote in my "Atlantic" piece today was that for the portions of the party that are resistant to Trump, this is really the moment. If he wins big here, it is going to be really hard to stop him. This is a break the glass moment. And she has confined herself to tapping pretty lightly on the window.

You know, she will -- as I say, she is standing in the scale, and she deserves a lot of credit for it. But she made that argument on Monday night that I am your last best hope, America, of avoiding the Trump- Biden rematch that you don't want. She didn't really drive that message here in New Hampshire all week, Jim. And I think she faces the risk of a squeeze. You know, DeSantis was squeezed because he couldn't break into the right and he lost the center.

Obviously she is not going to get the right. But what hurt her in Iowa was actually she failed to inspire enough of a turnout in the center. She didn't run as well in the Des Moines suburbs and in the other college towns that she needed to.

ACOSTA: Right.

BROWNSTEIN: And that is the risk here, too, that she is not going to get the big turnout among the centrists, independents, because she has not given them as sharp a message of differentiation from Trump as she would likely need to turn them out. So we'll see. Maybe she will surprise us. But she's kind of heading for the gentleman's bee here, if that makes any sense for the female candidate.

ACOSTA: Yes. And she had an opportunity there to really go after Trump in a major way, and she's sort of missed that moment it seems and now we're right on the cusp for the New Hampshire primary. Obviously, how she performs in the New Hampshire primary might very well, as you said, Ron, dictate the road ahead. It's harder, right, for her in South Carolina, potentially.

[20:15:05]

BROWNSTEIN: Right. Well, look, I mean, she needs stair steps. She needed to finish second in Iowa to give her momentum coming into New Hampshire. She needs to do well in New Hampshire to give her momentum coming into South Carolina. It is hard to beat Trump in this party. No one has figured it out in 2016 or 2024. His hold on the non-college and non-urban whites is this giant rock in the middle of the road.

And you can try to run mostly to his left as Haley did, or you can try to run mostly to his right as DeSantis did. And you still can't get around that rock. It doesn't leave you quite a big enough coalition on either side.

ACOSTA: Yes.

BROWNSTEIN: But, look, at the same time, you know, as we talked about, the Iowa results showed the risks that Republicans will be taking if they, in fact, nominate Trump. Again, when you have almost a third of voters in a Republican caucus saying they don't believe he is fit to be president again if he is convicted of a crime, that is a potential red flag for a general election.

ACOSTA: Right.

BROWNSTEIN: She alluded to all of that. But she would not push that as far as she probably needed to, to make this truly competitive.

ACOSTA: Yes.

BROWNSTEIN: And I think that betrays her doubt and the doubt in her campaign that she can really win. Why, you know, swing from your heels and alienate the Trump forces unless you thought you can really win? There was a message there that she delivered on the night. I am your last chance, America, to avoid this rematch.

ACOSTA: Yes.

BROWNSTEIN: It could have been the centerpiece here. She did pieces of it but not the unadulterated version.

ACOSTA: Yes. I mean, just because the Republican Party and voters in the Republican Party are overlooking all of these things when it comes to Donald Trump, it doesn't mean that the general electorate is, as you point out.

Ron Brownstein, as always, thank you so much.

Still ahead, the chairman of the National Republican Senatorial Committee is calling on all Republicans to unite behind Donald Trump. This as he continues to reference authoritarian -- this is as Donald Trump continues to reference authoritarian leaders and mobsters at his campaign events. We'll continue the conversation and talk about that in just a few moments. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:21:31]

ACOSTA: Welcome back. The chairman of the National Republican Senatorial Committee is calling on all Republicans to, quote, "unite behind Trump" now that Florida Governor Ron DeSantis has dropped out of the race.

Joining me now to discuss is Tom Nichols. He's a staff writer at "The Atlantic."

Tom, great to see you again. I guess let's get the horse race stuff out of the way and then talk about the stakes. Were you surprised by this, that Ron DeSantis jumped out of the race? And does Nikki Haley really have a chance at this point?

TOM NICHOLS, STAFF WRITER, THE ATLANTIC: I'm surprised only that it happened in January. But I think for a couple of days you could have seen this coming. But, you know, Nikki Haley, does she have a chance? Sure. Does she have a good chance? Almost certainly not. Certainly not if you believe the polls and she's going to get beaten in New Hampshire and then in her own state in South Carolina.

Could she pull multiple inside strait, somehow pull something out in New Hampshire and South Carolina, break Trump's momentum? I just -- I think that's so remote as to be almost impossible. Not totally impossible, but pretty improbable.

ACOSTA: Yes. And, Tom, I mean, I don't know if you were listening to the conversation I was having with Ron Brownstein a few moments ago. But, I mean, just to pick up on this question of tactics and strategy and how Ron DeSantis and Nikki Haley, I mean, they sort of, you know, gave it the juice there right at the very end and started going after Trump a little bit here and there. But it was sort of nibbling around the edges.

And I'm just wondering, what did you make of that? Is that also terribly not surprising? Would it have made a difference do you think had they gone after him?

T. NICHOLS: I don't know if it would have made a difference. But it was 2016 all over again where all of these people ran against Donald Trump on the assumption that at some point Trump would falter or, you know, be convicted or something, and then they would be the heirs to the Trump voters. And it just doesn't work that way anymore. It's a cult of personality. It doesn't scale. It doesn't transfer.

And they were all so afraid of running against him that they basically just ran with him. And that -- the implosion of the DeSantis campaign is no surprise. I think a lot of folks realized that to know Ron DeSantis on the trail, I mean, I don't mean this, you know, in a personal sense, but that for voters who met him, the more they met him, they more they didn't like him. And that he just had no compelling message, wasn't trying to run against Donald Trump.

I mean, you don't get anywhere by running and saying, you know, the guy -- the frontrunner, he's a good guy, he should have been president, I'm just like him. That's not actually a primary. And Nikki Haley, I think, has realized too late that she should have taken the gloves off and just let the chips fall where they may because I think no matter what she does, it's going to be the same result.

ACOSTA: Yes, Tom, that is not how campaigns work typically. Typically, you do challenge the frontrunner a little bit and it's been a target- rich environment. For example tonight Trump is on his way to becoming the presumptive nominee but he's facing these 91 charges and felony indictments and so on. But just moments ago during this rally in New Hampshire, he was complaining about all the indictments that he's facing and comparing himself to Al Capone yet again. Something you would think one of these other candidates would take him to task on that. But let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I got indicted more than Alphonse Capone. You know, can you believe it?

[20:25:00]

If he had dinner with you, if he didn't like you, he'd kill you. You'd be dead. This guy got indicted less than me. Do you believe it?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: So he brags about being just like Al Capone.

T. NICHOLS: Yes, normally in a campaign, you know, you would think that the advisers would say, you know, your opponent has just been indicted 91 times. You might use this. It might be an important point to make to the voters.

ACOSTA: Yes.

T. NICHOLS: And they all just backed away from it. And both sides did. And Nikki Haley, when she had her chance to throw a real haymaker here said, well, you know, a lot of people -- there's the Biden problems and there's the Trump problems. That is just not -- as you say, it's not how you run a campaign on any planet, but certainly not against Donald Trump when you are that far behind and you're hoping to kind of shake people by the lapels and wake them up about what they're actually about to embrace.

And none of the -- well, with the exception maybe of Chris Christie and Asa Hutchinson, but nobody was really willing to do this at the last minute. Nikki Haley seems still reluctant to do it.

ACOSTA: And, Tom, you and I have had conversations about this before. Trump's authoritarian, autocratic impulses. Last night he did it again, praising Viktor Orban. But take a listen to how he framed it and let's talk about it on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: There's a great man, a great leader in Europe, Victor Orban. He is the prime minister of Hungary. He is a very great leader. Very strong man. Some people don't like him because he is too strong. It's nice to have a strong man running your country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Yes, Tom, he says it's nice to have a strong man running your country.

T. NICHOLS: The only surprise -- and I think, you know, the only bright spot in there is that he chose Viktor Orban instead of Vladimir Putin. People forget this that, you know, we keep coming back to this over and over again about we're sort of shocked that last night he had good things to say about Viktor Orban. For six years, he's had nothing but great things to say about Vladimir Putin and Xi Jinping.

So, you know, Viktor Orban is almost a relief compared to some of the people of whom he has spoken well. But he's telegraphing it over and over and over again. And, you know, people just -- I think a lot of people in the Republican Party and what's left of the establishment, they just refuse to believe it. They keep -- again it's like 2016 all over again. Once he's in office, this will go away. It won't be that bad. There will be guardrails, there will be adults. None of that is going to happen. He is going to do exactly what he's telling people he's going to do.

ACOSTA: And you wrote a piece for "The Atlantic" arguing that it's not just Trump who wants revenge. It's also his base. What did you mean by that?

T. NICHOLS: Yes, absolutely. I think 2018, 2020 and 2022 were really serious, you know, ego bruising rebukes from a lot of voters to a lot of Trump voters. And I think because of that, these voters have kind of constructed this alternate universe where they really are a majority. Trump is really popular. All of these things that happened are just rigged elections or put-up jobs or politically motivated prosecutions.

And I think, you know, the cognitive dissonance of realizing that how many people don't want Donald Trump to return to office has made a lot of these folks dig in and wanting to return him to office out of pure spite rather than anything they think he'll do for the country, which is really, you know, pretty unfortunate way to vote but Trump voters have always been kind of, you know, vengeful, resentful group and I think that Trump's multiple losses and the multiple Republican losses over these past years have really turbocharged that sense of resentment. And they want what he wants, which is revenge.

ACOSTA: All right. Tom Nichols, always great to have you on. Really appreciate the insight. Thanks again. Please come back soon.

T. NICHOLS: Thanks, Jim.

ACOSTA: All right, good to talk to you. Coming up, developing overseas, what we're learning about at least two

major strikes against Russia, including one inside Russian territory. We'll tell about you that coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:33:27]

ACOSTA: Now to the latest in Russia's war on Ukraine. At least 28 people have been killed and others injured on a Ukrainian strike near a market today on the outskirts of the Russian-controlled city of Donetsk in eastern Ukraine. This claim coming from a Moscow-appointed official there. Donetsk is one of the four Ukrainian regions that Moscow illegally annexed in 2022, and Lieutenant General Mark Hertling joins us now to talk about this. He's a CNN military analyst, former U.S. Army commanding general.

General Hertling, great to see you as always. What do you make of this development? Very interesting. And where does it go from here?

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, Jim, a lot of people are saying that it's turned into a stalemate again. I don't believe that personally. Both sides are having challenges. The Ukrainian side are having challenges with ammunition and resupply and logistics. The Russian side is having challenges with getting their soldiers to fight. Both sides have learned a lot of lessons over the last two years. They're trying to apply them.

What's interesting about where we are right now is Russia is getting a lot of equipment from North Korea and Iran, using it on the battlefield, both artillery shells and drones. Ukraine on the other hand is still getting equipment, but they have that pause from the U.S. and other Western sources at this phase of the campaign. So they can't keep up their momentum.

At the same time, though, they're still conducting strikes. And what we're seeing really is a battle of air defense during the wintertime. You remember early last year, I talked about how as we were giving air defense equipment to Ukraine, they couldn't put it everywhere so there were going to be some strikes in some other cities.

[20:35:10]

Russia now has the same problem, except this time Ukraine now has drones and some missiles that they're using to great effects inside of Russian territory. So it's forcing Russia to reconsider where they're placing their air defense instead of getting hit in the rear areas like they were several times today in St. Petersburg, Russia. That's fascinating to me how Ukraine is taking the fight to the rear areas right now.

ACOSTA: Yes. A Ukrainian defense source tells CNN that they have carried out a drone attack on a Russian oil terminal on the Gulf of Finland. The source called it a new stage, targeting military facilities and oil depots. What's your assessment of that? And I guess how does it fit into the overall picture? Because, you know, maybe you and were talking about this earlier this past week, but Fred Pleitgen had this report about commanders, Ukrainian commanders having to be judicious and thrifty when it comes to how much ammo they use on the battlefield because they're worried about supply lines drying up. But it sounds as though the Ukrainians are still taking the fight to the Russians.

HERTLING: They are. And that's what I just pointed out. We're seeing the very good use of operational targeting. That strike against that oil field, as you said, in the Sea of Finland is actually against the city of St. Petersburg. That's where that oil field is. By the way, I don't think it's a coincidence that St. Peterburg is the home of President Putin.

ACOSTA: Right.

HERTLING: So what we're seeing right now is some really good operational targets, long-range strikes. I believe it's the fact that the Ukrainian general officers are saying, hey, we can't fight the tactical battle right now because our supply lines are disrupted. So we have to take the fight to the operational and strategic level and hit these Russian logistics targets and threaten their resources and their stability and their supply and also threaten their citizens inside of the Russian federation.

ACOSTA: And what do you make of what's happening in Congress right now when it comes to this fight over Ukraine aid? I was talking to both Vindman brothers, Eugene and Alexander, yesterday. And, you know, a comment that you made just a few moments ago just kind of piqued my curiosity. And I wanted to ask you about it. When you said that Iran and North Korea are coming to Russia's aid.

I think the argument has been made that Vladimir Putin benefits if Congress doesn't come to the aid of the Ukrainians. But to some extent, so does Pyongyang and Tehran.

HERTLING: Yes, absolutely, Jim. You're absolutely right. And what is fascinating to me and just really depressing is the fact that you have these dictatorial and authoritarian axis of North Korea, China, Iran, all providing aid to Russia in this fight. And it's been very effective in both their tactical battles and their strategic battles. And then you have the U.S. Congress dithering. The Republicans in Congress trying to make tradeoffs when a nation that's a democratic nation like ours, that is looking to us for help for their sovereignty and their freedom, we're debating that.

It just doesn't make sense to me from a political perspective as a soldier that this kind of thing would be going on in Congress. We need to change that soon or we're going to see Ukraine really put in the horns of a dilemma.

ACOSTA: Well, that's what I was -- how long do you think the Ukrainians can hold out? Is there really just no way of knowing that? Because of the fight that the Ukrainians have showed, that's difficult to quantify and they still have the ability to conduct asymmetrical attacks like we were talking about earlier. HERTLING: Well, they do have the ability to conduct those attacks. How

long it's going to take, Jim, I don't know. Having been a commander on a battlefield once where the supply lines were interrupted, you have to do a lot of things to adapt to that. I can't imagine what Ukraine is doing right now, what their commanders are having to do when you're talking about the depletion of artillery rounds, the depletion of equipment that's being damaged or destroyed, and how they're making that work.

So in that case, a commander has to pick and choose their fights. And that's tough to do when you're trying to gain momentum in an assault. Both sides, Russia and Ukraine, are in an operational pause right now. Ukraine, because of the supply difficulties. And I would suggest Russia because their soldiers are getting killed by the dozens, by the hundreds on a daily basis because they're still having challenges with maneuver and attacks in different areas.

ACOSTA: All right. General Hertling, great to talk to you as always. Really appreciate it. Important subject. Thanks for your time.

HERTLING: Thanks, Jim.

ACOSTA: All right. Moments ago in New Hampshire, want to catch you up to speed on something that just happened in the last several minutes. Despite being locked in a legal battle with E. Jean Carroll for defamation, Donald Trump continues to talk about her out on the campaign trail. This just happened in the last several minutes. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: But I'm going for a trial tomorrow all done by political -- Reed Hoffman is sponsoring this woman that said terrible things.

[20:40:07]

From 30 years ago he took me -- I owned three, four buildings around it. I owned the hotel next to it. I took her. Totally fabricated. It's all fabricated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Now Trump is expected to be at E. Jean Carroll trial tomorrow in New York. We'll follow all of these developments as they come in. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ACOSTA: The Democratic National Committee is taking some jabs at Ron DeSantis, accusing him of being the latest GOP member to fall in line behind Donald Trump after the Florida governor withdrew from the 2024 race just hours ago.

Our Kevin Liptak reports the Biden campaign is now looking forward to a one-on-one contest with Trump as election day draws closer. Kevin joins me now from Rehoboth Beach, Delaware. [20:45:03]

Kevin, this is what the White House has been expecting.

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. More or less. And I don't think this changes their strategy in any way because really they had looked past DeSantis and are looking towards this one- on-one contest with President Trump. And even in that statement that they released earlier today, it was less about DeSantis and more about Trump, lumping in DeSantis with Trump's policies, calling him a MAGA extremist, saying that he had pinned his entire campaign's hopes on this extreme MAGA agenda, both Donald Trump and Nikki Haley are still running on.

And I think in reality the conclusion of the Republican nomination contest could not come soon enough for Biden's campaign. They really do see this as a one-on-one contest, but there are some concerns. And it does bear out in their own internal research that a lot of undecided voters still just don't see President Trump as the likely Republican nominee. And until that happens, it's very difficult for them to make the choice argument, the contrast argument with President Trump.

Right now it's Biden running against sort of an abstract Republican. Once Trump is the nominee, they think it will be very easy for them to make this argument that Biden makes all the time to compare me not to the Almighty but to the alternative. And once there is an actual person, an alternative, they think that it will be a lot easier for them to gain traction with voters heading into the election -- Jim.

ACOSTA: All right. That general election campaign will be here before you know it.

Kevin Liptak, thank you very much.

Still ahead, things are going to be electric in the Motor City tonight after the Detroit Lions are now one game away -- who would have thought this -- from a spot in the Super Bowl. Rachel Nichols is standing by to discuss. There she is. We'll talk to her in just a moment. Be right back.

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[20:51:15]

ACOSTA: In sports, the Detroit Lions are on a post-season roll. Earlier today securing a spot in the NFC Championship Game with that remarkable 31-23 victory over the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. The Lions fan base still riding high from their first playoff win in decades, going absolutely crazy.

Here's Lions star and Michigan native Aidan Hutchinson reacting on the field.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How does this make the hometown going? I know you are one win away from a trip to the Super Bowl.

AIDAN HUTCHINSON, DETROIT LIONS DEFENSIVE END: You know, it's hard to -- it's hard to put into words, looking at everyone. Not a fan has left the stadium because -- he was waiting to do that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. You know I was, man.

HUTCHINSON: No, it's amazing. It's amazing. And this team deserves it, and we're going to keep plugging away. It's win or go home at this point, and we're all very excited to go to San Fran next week.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Let's discuss with sports journalist Rachel Nichols who is the host of "Headliners with Rachel Nichols" on Showtime.

Rachel, I mean, are the Detroit Lions the best story in sports right now or what?

RACHEL NICHOLS, HOST, "HEADLINERS WITH RACHEL NICHOLS" ON SHOWTIME: I mean, this is a total fairy tale. And just to explain how far that they have come from the bottom. There's been a Super Bowl in this country for nearly 60 years, and the Detroit Lions have never played in it. In fact it gets worse, over the last 30 years, they've never even won a playoff game. They've had 11 head coaches in that stretch, though.

So to say that Lions fans have been in need of something like this for a long time, there are whole humans in Detroit who have never seen this team win a playoff game. And now that they have won two, the impact on the city has been amazing, Jim. And some of it's been financial. City officials estimate that with each of these two playoff home games that they have made $50 million in economic impact on the city a pop, each week.

And then emotionally, you just have a city that frankly has been a punching bag for national politicians for years, all the ups and downs with the auto industry. You have very diverse population there, which makes the city stronger but has also led to people, you know, maybe not having something in common to root for. And this has given them that.

You have a huge Ukrainian population in Detroit, who has had a rough couple of years, who has been able to throw themselves into this as well.

ACOSTA: Yes.

R. NICHOLS: So it's been a wonderful story. And now as you saw in the clip, they are one win away from their first Super Bowl ever. We'll have to see if they can do it.

ACOSTA: Amazing. Yes, meantime, in Buffalo, Taylor Swift was apparently booed when she showed up to see her boyfriend Travis Kelce and the Kansas City Chiefs take on the Bills earlier today. And this game is going on right now, with as much drama off the field as on. We don't have the clip here, but I was looking at a clip while online just a few moments ago where Taylor Swift is in that skybox and Jason Kelce, Travis Kelce's brother, is behind her. He's shirtless chugging a beer. So that tells you how things are going.

R. NICHOLS: Yes. It is 23 degrees in Detroit right now. No, not inside the -- I mean, in Buffalo right now. Obviously she's in a heated box there. But outside, it has been interesting. Bills mafia fans, as you know, as they call themselves, tend to tailgate half naked, just like Jason Kelce has been doing here. And I've got to tell you, it's been an interesting time out there. Pregame, not only did some fans boo Taylor Swift, she did have a lovely response, blowing them a kiss. But none of them set another one of them on fire on purpose. The Bills fans have a tradition of jumping off --

ACOSTA: There it is right there.

R. NICHOLS: You can see it right here.

ACOSTA: Wow.

R. NICHOLS: They like to jump off of tables and then, boom, go in like wrestling style. Except this time they thought it would be fun if they added some fire to it, which of course this gentleman caught on fire.

ACOSTA: Wow.

R. NICHOLS: Yes. He was put out. Don't worry. No major injuries. Inside, it's also been exciting. Travis Kelce, by the way, two touchdowns after --

ACOSTA: Is this a "Jackass" movie? What am I looking at here?

R. NICHOLS: I'm just telling you this is a regular day for the Bills mafia. It's just a little more toasty this time.

[20:55:02]

These are the clips I bring you, Jim. I just want you to know this is what I bring to your afternoon on Sundays.

ACOSTA: Rachel, thanks for keeping it classy. We appreciate it. And meanwhile, the Ravens are doing great. I mean, this has been an amazing playoffs. I've been loving it.

R. NICHOLS: Yes, absolutely. We've got to give shoutout to Lamar Jackson, the Ravens quarterback, who this spring had a contract dispute.

ACOSTA: Yes.

R. NICHOLS: No one wanted him apparently, Jim.

ACOSTA: That's right.

R. NICHOLS: And now he's also a win away from the Super Bowl. They're a great story, too. A really fun NFL playoffs. ACOSTA: Awesome. Great stuff. Rachel Nichols, great to see you as

always. Come back again soon. Thanks again.

And thank you very much for joining me this evening. Do not try that at home, kids. I'm Jim Acosta. I'll see you back here next weekend. Dana Bash anchors a special hour of CNN NEWSROOM live from New Hampshire. Have a great night, everybody. Take care.

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