Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsroom
Ron DeSantis Ends Presidential Campaign, Endorses Trump; Haley Steps Up Attacks On Trump, Questions Mental Fitness. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired January 21, 2024 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:24]
DANA BASH, CNN HOST: And then there were two. I'm Dana Bash, live from Manchester, New Hampshire, where the Republican presidential primary is rocked by a major shakeup just 48 hours before the state votes.
This is a CNN special report.
Florida Governor DeSantis is out of the race tonight, suddenly suspending his campaign after a distant second place finish in Iowa. We're told the decision came after conversations with his donors, that his money to continue just was not there.
Here's a little bit of his announcement video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. RON DESANTIS (R), FLORIDA: And now serving as governor of Florida. If there was anything I could do to produce a favorable outcome, more campaign stops, more interviews, I would do it. But I can't ask our supporters to volunteer their time and donate their resources if we don't have a clear path to victory. Accordingly, I am today suspending my campaign.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: What came next may seem surprising, if you've been listening to the way Donald Trump and Ron DeSantis have gone after each other for nearly a year. But DeSantis signed a pledge to support the nominee, and he thinks the nominee is going to be Donald Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DESANTIS: Well, I've had disagreements with Donald Trump, such as on the coronavirus pandemic and his elevation of Anthony Fauci. Trump is superior to the current incumbent, Joe Biden. That is clear.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: Trump tonight says he is honored by the endorsement, using DeSantis' real name for the first time in months.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT: I'd like to take time to congratulate Ron DeSantis and, of course, a really terrific person. He ran a really good campaign. He was very gracious, and he endorsed me. So, I appreciate it. I appreciate that, and I also look forward to working with Ron.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: And now it's only the former president and his former U.N. ambassador, Nikki Haley, left in the race. CNN, along with the UNH released our latest New Hampshire poll this morning, before DeSantis dropped out. And this is the matchup without DeSantis. Trump still with a solid lead.
I spoke with Haley this afternoon, and you're going to hear that interview in just a moment. But first, not long after Ron DeSantis suspended his campaign, Trump spoke to supporters at a rally here in New Hampshire, Rochester, New Hampshire.
CNN's Alayna Treene was at that event just a short time ago and is in Rochester, New Hampshire, still.
Alayna, what happened at that event?
ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: Yeah. Well, Dana, the event wrapped shortly. Donald Trump just left the stage about 20 minutes ago, I'd say. I mean, look, I mean, what a difference a few hours make, right, of Donald Trump's rhetoric tonight about Ron DeSantis is a complete 180 from the type of language we've become accustomed to over the past year.
I've gone to many of Donald Trump's rallies, and he's always used very sharp language to attack Ron DeSantis. And really a major shift ever since DeSantis endorsed Donald Trump tonight. Now, I can tell you that according to my conversations with Donald Trump's campaign, it's still unclear whether or not they're really going to embrace him moving forward. I mean, I do think if you listened to the language he used on stage at this rally, it does seem like Donald Trump is speaking of him more favorably.
But the question is, will they potentially use the Florida Governor as a surrogate? Will he appear with Donald Trump on the trail? Those are things the campaign is working out and they don't really know. But I can tell you that according to those conversations as well, as of now, there are no plans for DeSantis to appear on the trail with Donald Trump. As you know, Dana, these things can change very quickly.
I also just want to point out something that I think is striking and important to note. Over the past week, we have seen three of Donald Trump's former Republican primary rivals endorse him. Vivek Ramaswamy last Monday, the night of the Iowa caucuses came out and endorsed Donald Trump after he suspended his campaign. Friday, we heard from Senator Tim Scott of South Carolina, the same state as Nikki Haley's own backyard. He dropped out last year, but endorsed Donald Trump Friday night at a rally in Concord, New Hampshire. And, of course today, we had that big announcement from Ron DeSantis. So, I mean, that is pretty striking. And we did hear Donald Trump
address that on stage tonight.
[21:05:01]
He said, quote, that they're all coming with us, while referring to his former rivals. And so, I think, you know, as we look ahead to Tuesday, you're going to hear Donald Trump talk about this a lot in the ramp-up to the New Hampshire primary. And I also think you'll hear Nikki Haley try to defend herself as well, in light of this recent endorsement.
BASH: Alayna Treene in Rochester, New Hampshire, thank you so much for that reporting.
And here with me now is Kylie Atwood to talk about Nikki Haley and the fact that she has been continuing to campaign in this state.
And you and I were together when the news broke and when Nikki Haley reacted right away. And then she went on to a couple of other events. You were with her just a short while ago. What was her message?
KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, her message was, it's down to two now. This is the first time she had an event, a big event, where it actually is a two-person race. It's interesting because her campaign has been trying to say for some time now that this is a two-person race. But it hasn't actually been a two-person race until today.
And she felt incredibly energized by that. You could tell with her energy on the stage. She had Judge Judy there with her today. And her argument was more of the same that we've been seeing, that she is the next generational leader. And she continues to make that case.
She's making it across the state, with all these campaign events that we've seen. I mean, we were at that clam shack today. She's going to schools. She's doing rallies. She's really doing everything they can here in New Hampshire.
BASH: And is there any sense from her team, that you have heard, that this could buoy her at all -- now when I say, buoy, that's probably a stretch. Ron DeSantis is only polling at 6 percent here in New Hampshire. The fact that he endorsed Donald Trump, the fact that there was no love lost there, the fact that it looks -- if you talk to -- if you just listen to DeSantis and others, that there is an air of inevitability for Donald Trump. Any chance that they think they can get at least some of DeSantis' supporters there?
ATWOOD: I think they do think they think they can get DeSantis supporters. I mean, she told that her pitch to DeSantis supporters is that she's the one that can win in a general election. And when you see the matchups between Haley and Biden versus former President Trump and Biden, she does do better. Those are theoretical matchups. But she really does like to talk about those. And so, that's one thing we're watching for her to keep bringing up on the campaign trail. BASH: You mentioned Judge Judy. I did have a chance to listen to her
before she went out on the stump with Nikki Haley. Listen to why she is supporting the former governor of South Carolina.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUDGE JUDY SHEINDLIN, HALEY SUPPORTER: I want to be proud of America. I want to be able to listen to our commander in chief, whoever she is, and feel that the country is safe in being governed with a steady hand, not with chaos. I met Nikki Haley about a year ago because I was impressed with her four years ago.
And when she decided to dip her toe in the water, I said, it's someone who I could embrace. But I first have to meet her. So, we spent some time together.
And I was impressed enough with what I heard and her history, to travel 1,700 miles tonight to convince whoever I can in the state of New Hampshire that Donald Trump should not be president again and that Joe Biden should not be president again and Nikki Haley is a chance for America to redeem its rightful place in the world. That's the reason.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: I mean, she has a lot of fans out there. And she certainly is trying to make her case not just in this interview. It was a pretty big event in Exeter, where you were.
ATWOOD: Yes, it was. One of the things she said on stage was Nikki Haley has to be the nominee because we have to have someone who America is excited about, who America is proud about, not just at home but also on the world stage, making that argument that the world is watching America right now.
The other thing -- and we were talking about this at the end of that event today. It is just such a stark contrast to see Nikki Haley on stage with Judge Judy, getting that endorsement, and then to see former President Trump on stage with all of these South Carolinian lawmakers.
She is trying to make the case -- Haley is trying to make the case, that those endorsements don't matter. I think, you know, there will be real questions as to if voters agree with her.
[21:10:02]
Do they think it's inevitable that he's going to become the nominee because he has all that support behind him, or do they buy her argument that those lawmakers aren't lining up behind her because of the policies she's pushing, you know, because she has pushed for ethics reform in South Carolina, because she wants folks in D.C. and lawmakers over 75 to have cognitive tests.
So, the question is, are voters going to go with her, as she's trying to position herself as the outsider, or are they going to go with Trump because they think that is the inevitable nominee right now?
BASH: Yeah. Well, we'll see. Thank you so much. Good to see you, Kylie.
And I did speak with Nikki Haley just moments after Ron DeSantis dropped out. I was with her in Seabrook, New Hampshire, where she was campaigning at Brown's Lobster Pound. Here's our conversation.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: Your reaction?
NIKKI HALEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I mean, I think -- look, I have said I think that Ron ran a good race. I know it's personal to get into a race. It's personal to get out of a race. He's been a good governor, and he added a lot to the campaign, and we wish him well.
BASH: OK, when he -- when he dropped out, part of what he said, was he reminded everyone that he signed a pledge to support the Republican nominee, I'll honor that pledge, he meaning Donald Trump has my endorsement because we can't go back to the old Republican guard of yesteryear or repackage form of warmed over corporatism that Nikki Haley represents. That's tough stuff on his way out the door.
HALEY: You know, and it's interesting because there's no proof of that. These fellas say this because they want people to believe it. But what's amazing to me is they think they can lie to the American people and the American people are going to believe it.
Prove it. Prove one thing that they said. Prove the fact that Donald Trump says I want to cut Social Security or raise the age. I've never said. Prove the fact that Donald Trump says I want to raise gas taxes. I've never said or done that.
Prove that Ron DeSantis says that I'm a corporate whatever he says I am. I've never done that. I was -- in South Carolina, we fought for the people every day.
There's a reason you don't see the legislature lining up behind me in South Carolina. It's because I fought to get them to vote on the record. I fought to have them do ethics reform. I vetoed half a billion dollars worth of their pork projects.
And then you see Congress. The reason Congress doesn't support us is I'd pushed for term limits. I'd pushed for mental competency test. I've said if they don't give us a budget on time, they don't get paid.
I don't get that political elite. That's what we need to be talking about, not the corporate stuff that they're talking about. The fact they all side together against the people is what I'm doing. I'm going to continue to fight for the people.
BASH: A lot of times -- you've run in primary races before. When somebody drops out, there tends to be a breath taken and some nicer words are said. That is not the case right now with Ron DeSantis.
Is that surprising to you? Is it disappointing to you? And did he call you or at least at all inform you before he was dropping out?
HALEY: No, he didn't call or inform me. And, look, this is what the fellas do. The difference is, I don't take politics personally. I never have.
And I think that's the problem with where we are now, is you now have people who want to decide who's a good Republican, who's a bad Republican, who's a good person, who's a bad person. That's why our country is so divided.
I don't judge people. I focus on policy that's going to make America stronger. I don't take politics personally. I'm not thin skinned like Donald Trump.
I think that people don't want that. They want a leader who's going to bring out the best in people and get our country going forward.
BASH: Ron DeSantis is saying that he is sticking by his pledge, which is why -- and he believes that Donald Trump will be the nominee. You made a pledge a long time ago, before the Republican National Committee debates even started, to support the nominee.
Do you still feel that way? Are you still going to support -- I mean, it's you and Donald Trump. If it's not you -- I know you hope it will be and you're working so it is. But if it's not, if it's Donald Trump, will you support him as the nominee still?
HALEY: It's going to be me. I know y'all want to talk about it like it's still him. Seventy percent of Americans don't want to see a Trump/Biden rematch. But even look at that, 56,000 people voted in Iowa. Less than 2 percent voted in one state.
We're not going to let that decide what happens in the country. We've got New Hampshire. We've got South Carolina. We've got Super Tuesday. We're going to keep on going.
And we're going to fight and we're going to win. I'm used to people underestimating me. It's always fine.
But there were 14 people in this race and now there are two. I'm going to finish this so Joe Biden and Donald Trump are not an issue at all, that we actually put them in the past and we go forward because our country deserves it. And Americans want it. They're tired.
BASH: As former governor of South Carolina, South Carolina doesn't vote, as you know, for a month. You are pledging right now to your former constituents, to your fellow South Carolinians that you are going to stay in this race through the contest there?
HALEY: Absolutely. And South Carolinians know, I won that state twice. They know I'm a fighter.
[21:15:01]
They know I'm going to go all the way through. I'm also an accountant, so we saved a lot of our dollars to make sure
we could be strong in South Carolina. We're going to be stronger in New Hampshire than we were in Iowa. We're going to be even stronger in South Carolina than we were in New Hampshire. And we're going to keep on going until we're the last woman standing.
BASH: You just did it again and we've heard you over and over in recent weeks in the campaign trail lumping Donald Trump and Joe Biden together. Do you believe that they are equally bad for America?
HALEY: It's not even what I believe. It's what Americans believe.
BASH: What do you believe because you're the one who's saying that?
HALEY: I worry about the fact that they are so focused on investigations and things that they don't like and focused on the past. When do you ever hear either one of them talk about the solution to the future?
I'm doing this because I don't want my kids to live like this. We have got to start looking forward. You've got a country in disarray. You've got a world on fire, and you're going to focus on people who hurt your feelings? You're going to focus on investigations involved with your families? You're going to focus on vengeance?
With me, it's no drama, it's no vendettas. It's just hard work. And it's making sure we're not thinking four and eight years. We're thinking 20 and 30 years out.
That's what it should be. And we've lost that. We lost that a long time ago, but we can get it back. And I'm going to prove every day to every American that they made the right decision when I get elected.
BASH: You don't want to go there on whether or not they're equally bad?
HALEY: I mean, if they were -- if either one of them was good, I wouldn't be running. Yes, they are equally bad. That's why I'm running, is because I don't think we need to have Biden or Trump.
I don't think we need to have two 80 year olds sitting in the White House when we've basically got to make sure that we can handle the war situation that we're in. We need to know they're at the top of their game. We need to know they can take care of our national security and our economy. Right now, I don't know that people feel that way with either one. So, that's why we're giving them a choice.
BASH: What's your message to Ron DeSantis' supporters that are still out there? Let's just start in New Hampshire. He -- at our latest poll this morning, he was at 6 percent. So, we're not talking about a big slice of the electorate. But they are out there.
He just endorsed Donald Trump. What's your message to them about why they should vote for you?
HALEY: I think that they love America, and I think they want a new generational leader. So, I am telling them that I am that new generational leader. And I'm the conservative that can get it done. And we're going to go and make sure that we get spending under control. We're going to get our kids reading again and have transparency in the classroom.
We're going to secure our border once and for all, no more excuses. We're going to bring law and order back to this country, but guess what else we're going to do. We're the only one in a general election that beats Joe Biden. Even if you look at the poll yesterday that came out in New Hampshire, general election, Trump loses to Biden by seven points here in New Hampshire. I beat Biden.
Look at every swing state. I beat Biden. I beat him by up to 17 points. This is a fact we don't want a President Kamala Harris. That should send a chill up everybody's spine.
So, instead, look at the fact that we could actually win. And I think that's what Ron DeSantis' supporters want. They don't want to lose. They don't want a President Kamala Harris. And they also want a new generational leader, and we give them all of that.
BASH: Two more questions while I have you. Another thing that was really interesting in the CNN/UNH poll that we had out this morning was that when people who are voting on Tuesday were asked to rank the issues that matter most, immigration was at the top of the list. Democracy and the Constitution, it was very high.
What is your message about why you think, to those people who are looking at that issue, why you don't think Donald Trump is the right candidate if they care about the democracy and the Constitution?
HALEY: Well, you can look at his actions and decide for yourself. But what I will tell you is we are in the live free or die state. I want it to be a live free or die country. I want to make sure that we go back to all the values and principles that make our country so great.
My parents raised me and said that even on our worst day, we're blessed to live in America. That's what I want to get back to. My husband's deployed right now because he still believes in this amazing experiment that is America.
I want to get people to where the national self-loathing has stopped and we start being patriotic again, we start loving our country again. That's where I want to go.
I don't think you get that with Donald Trump. You can hear him on any given day and hear him badmouth Americans all over the place. That's not what I'm going to do. I'm going to fight to get America strong, and I don't think you have to hate people to do it.
BASH: Before I let you go, I interviewed Tim Scott, your fellow South Carolinian, senator from South Carolina this morning on "STATE OF THE UNION" and asked him about his decision to endorse Donald Trump and not you. I asked if he gave you a heads up, he said eventually, actually I texted her the day before I made my announcement.
HALEY: That's not true. He didn't call. He didn't text. He didn't tell me he was going to do this.
I texted him and said, look, I want to sit down and talk because we had only spoken once since then. He said, I love to sit down and talk about endorsement. He said, I'm getting with my team to figure that out and I never heard anything else again until his endorsement.
[21:20:05]
BASH: Did he -- when he told me he texted the day before, did he text somebody on your team?
HALEY: No. We didn't hear from him when he decided to run in this race. We didn't hear from him when he decided to get out of this race. Am I disappointed? Yes. But that's his decision to live with.
We're moving on. There's two people in this race. That's what we wanted all along. We're going to keep on going.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: And up next, we'll break down all of this, who the DeSantis dropping out fact helps, who it hurts.
Plus, I'll speak with a DeSantis surrogate about who he is going to support now in this race.
And we're going to discuss how so many Republicans always come back to Trump no, matter how brutal his attacks are.
This is CNN's special live coverage from New Hampshire.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BASH: We're back live from New Hampshire, where Donald Trump and Nikki Haley are battling for the nomination after the exit today of Ron DeSantis. The Florida governor's quick endorsement of Trump came after weeks of DeSantis taking him on directly.
[21:25:02]
Listen to an example of that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DESANTIS: How many people that served in his administration are lining up to endorse him this time around or be willing to come here and knock on doors in subfreezing temperatures? Not very many.
He's running a campaign about putting himself and his issues first. That's what he cares about. You can be the most worthless Republican in America, but if you kiss the ring, he'll say you're wonderful.
Those promises were not fulfilled. He did not deliver on those.
Donald Trump, I guess, has phoned in it and just going to be hanging out down in Mar-a-Lago. I'm sure it's probably 75 degrees there. The problem is he didn't drain it. The bureaucracy got worse. The
weaponization got worse. He put a lot of these people in place.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: And tonight, Ron DeSantis is backing Donald Trump.
Joining me now to talk about all of this is former Republican congressman and senior political commentator for CNN, Adam Kinzinger. Also here with me in New Hampshire is Matt Mowers, former Trump administration official and former candidate for Congress here in New Hampshire.
Hello to you both.
I'm going to start with you, the former congressman, Adam Kinzinger. I'll start by asking you for your thoughts on Ron DeSantis. You served with him in the House and you've been watching this campaign. I'm guessing you're not surprised that he endorsed Donald Trump. But give me what's going through your head at this hour.
ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah. I mean, my shock meter is just off the charts. Like, no, I mean -- even in the attacks that you were playing, they were so mild. He's, like, oh, you know, Donald Trump didn't build the wall, didn't make Mexico pay -- I mean, he was set up the whole time to be able to turn and endorse Donald Trump.
I'll tell you one of Donald Trump's superpowers, if we're being honest, is that he'll welcome you back into the fold.
If I, literally, today, if I said, you know what, Dana? I changed my mind, I'm supporting Trump now -- God forbid and I won't, by the way, -- but if I did that, I could go to Mar-a-Lago tomorrow.
That's what he does. He welcomes everybody into his warm embrace.
And so, yeah, Ron DeSantis never once attacked him for the fact that he was indicted on 90 different counts of felonies, that he launched an insurrection against the Capitol, that he will not recognize the legitimately elected president. He tried to attack him from the right.
That's why his campaign failed by the way, but it's also why there's no surprise he endorsed Trump.
BASH: What are your thoughts on this? Let's start with DeSantis and what do you think went wrong? Because he did play hard here in New Hampshire, until he pulled up stakes and left.
MATT MOWERS, FORMER TRUMP ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: Right. Well, I think it was a few different things. Number one, let's not forget that he was on the receiving end of $47 million in negative ads, $47 million. I mean, that's more than Donald Trump. That's more than Joe Biden. That's more than Nikki Haley. That's more than most of them combined. And so, to undergo that type of methodical takedown largely from
Donald Trump and his super PAC was really challenging for him. The second critical mistake he made is that he was trying to out- conservative and outflank Donald Trump to try to win the Iowa caucus, right, which is a low turnout affair, very conservative.
He tried to get to the right of him on abortion, transgender issues. For every single social conservative he may have picked up in Iowa, which wasn't that many as we saw, he lost a lot of independents here in New Hampshire. It's one of the reasons why I'm not shocked he got out here today, given he's only polling around 6 percent on Tuesday.
BASH: I want you both to listen to a little bit of my conversation from this morning on "STATE OF THE UNION" with Tim Scott, senator from South Carolina, who endorsed Donald Trump on Friday. Listen to part of that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: What you did say on Friday, Senator, is that when you endorsed Donald Trump is that he will, quote, restore law and order, which is some of what you're talking about here this morning. As president --
SEN. TIM SCOTT (R-SC): Yes.
BASH: -- he did try to overturn a legitimate election. He called January 6th rioters hostages and promised to pardon them. He is charged with keeping classified documents and obstructing attempts to get them back.
And on the campaign now, he's arguing that presidents should have total immunity, even if they, quote, cross the line.
How is that law and order?
SCOTT: Well, he has a legal team -- I could answer the questions of the legal challenges that he faces.
But what I can tell you is that when you look around the cities, when you grow up in poor communities like I did and you watch the crime ravishing your communities, you ask yourself, what president has allowed that to happen? It's Joe Biden.
When you have D.A.s around the country that says it's no longer a crime to steal $1,000 worth of goods and those stores are closing in San Francisco and across the country, you ask yourself, what president allowed that lawless behavior to continue?
[21:30:06]
That's Joe Biden. You ask yourself, who can restore --
BASH: Senator --
SCOTT: -- law and order in our nation to allow it to go forward, that would be Donald Trump. BASH: Senator, I understand that you're talking about Joe Biden.
SCOTT: Yes, I am.
BASH: But I do want to get your thoughts in a more fulsome way on Donald Trump because your endorsement was a big deal and is a big deal. I just want to take one of the examples that I gave. Donald Trump calls the January 6th rioters hostages.
You were at the capitol that day. You said that you took off your jacket --
SCOTT: I was.
BASH: -- you pulled up your sleeves, and you were prepared to defend yourself, quote, presumably until I died.
Would you call --
SCOTT: Yes.
BASH: -- the people who are now facing prosecution hostages?
SCOTT: I would say that every single person facing our justice system should have justice done. The facts and the evidence in each individual case matters. I have confidence that that process will play out.
Here's what I said also in the book that I wrote. I talked about January 6th because I am one of the few people who's actually there. With the people outside, 99 percent of the people who showed up were there to exercise their First Amendment rights.
What I said then was what I say now. I don't hold those people at harm. I don't hold them responsible for the actions of a few. I do hold the few responsible.
BASH: So, the few who are --
SCOTT: The people have to be responsible for themselves.
BASH: So that the few -- to use your words, the few who are being prosecuted --
SCOTT: Yes.
BASH: -- going through the justice system, would you call them hostages?
SCOTT: I believe that our Department of Justice should continue and allow a jury of their peers to make the decisions. That's America.
BASH: So, just to be clear and then I want to move on. You disagree with Donald Trump calling them hostages, sounds like?
SCOTT: Just for the third time, yes, I believe we should have confidence in restoring the blind fold to Lady Justice's eyes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: Congressman Kinzinger, you were a member of the select committee to look into January 6. What do you think about that?
KINZINGER: What is it for a man to gain the world but lose his soul? I don't doubt Tim Scott's spiritual condition. I think it's solid. But sometimes you make compromises for politics. And that's what you heard.
Great questions, by the way, and good job on that. And you saw him skip around an obvious answer. He doesn't believe they were hostages. He was there on January 6th like I was. He feared for his life like I did and every other member of the House and every member of the Senate.
And his uber focus on crime related to Trump. And I have a concern about crime, too. But it's worth noting -- almost every authoritarian comes to power comes to power in a legitimate election and comes to power using crime and safety issues, the bottom of Maslow's hierarchy of needs, in order to appeal to the need for safety of people. And that's how they come to power.
So, when you hear over and over -- crime, crime, crime, crime, crime, crime, just keep that in mind. And then look at the man who's claiming to be the person of law and order. And you saw the struggle in Senator Scott's eyes.
And I'll tell you what? He actually disappoints me more than almost anybody so far because I know him well. I was elected with him. We served on John Boehner's transition team in 2010 and never would have expected that he would have gone this way. And it hurts actually.
BASH: Matt?
MOWERS: I would give Tim Scott maybe a B for his beefsteak audition that he just did this morning. I mean, clearly, that's what this and so much is about. Whether it's what you see Elise Stefanik beginning to say or so many others that are clearly angling to become Donald Trump's potential vice presidential nominee, or want to have political viability should he become president again.
You're going to see a lot of them have challenges trying to conform and synthesize what they probably believe. And I take the congressman. He knows Senator Scott better than I do, what he actually truly believes to what they're saying.
And, you know, Mike Pence found ways to do that for five years until that ultimate test on January 6th, where he just couldn't do it. And it will be really telling to see these other people who are auditioning for vice president, how they comport themselves as well.
BASH: Yeah, it was certainly interesting. I'll leave it there.
MOWERS: Yeah. BASH: But you know what? We're not quite there yet because the race isn't over for the nomination. We do have a very important contest here.
Former Congressman Adam Kinzinger, Matt Mowers, thank you so much to both of you.
And up next, a big time Trump donor that switched to team DeSantis. Now that DeSantis is out, who's he going to endorse? I'll speak with him after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:38:42]
BASH: Welcome back from the center of the political universe, New Hampshire, where Republican voters will now decide between Donald Trump and Nikki Haley.
Ron DeSantis' decision to drop out today came after conversations with many of his donors. One of those donors is with me now, Hal Lambert, who is live from Texas.
Thank you so much for joining me, sir.
First, you have been in conversations with the Florida governor's team. What can you tell us about his decision to drop out?
HAL LAMBERT, DESANTIS DONOR: Well, it was very thought out. I mean, they looked at all the paths, and I think they really were focused on South Carolina. And when some of the polling didn't really show he was gaining strength there, the decision really had to be made at this point, either you get out now, or if you're going to get to South Carolina, you really need a plan to go all the way through Super Tuesday.
So, I think it was a now or go all the way through Super Tuesday. And at that point, you're looking at a lot of things are going to be out of his control. The path was going to be pretty narrow. I think the governor made the decision, look, to go to Super Tuesday from here was going to require a lot more donor support.
At that point, you're looking at elected officials potentially switching it over and switching to Trump or others coming out in support of Trump. And the momentum was just going to keep it from being able to gain any momentum at all.
[21:40:03]
BASH: Do you know what that poll showed in South Carolina?
LAMBERT: I don't. I don't. I think it was probably similar to what the public polling was showing. But it really showed that, you know, to win -- South Carolina was a winner-take-all. So, you know, that's where all the delegates were going to go. To overtake that and win that state was going to be extremely
difficult, which then meant, okay, you can go to proportional states after that. But that was going to be a long haul. You're looking at, do you get out now or do you go another two months?
And I think that was kind of the decision making and then you've got the Florida legislature starting up. There was going to be a lot of pressure around the country for DeSantis to get out. Nikki Haley is clearly going to get out after New Hampshire, I think.
BASH: Why? Why do you think so?
LAMBERT: Well, she's going to lose New Hampshire. I think that's pretty clear. And I think she's not going to be very close. And then she's way behind in South Carolina.
So, I think she'll ultimately come to the same conclusion prior to South Carolina. But certainly if she does stand through South Carolina, she's likely -- very likely to lose that state. Look, all of DeSantis' support, for the most part, goes to Trump. So, for him to get out actually hurts Nikki Haley both in New Hampshire as well as South Carolina. I think it's going to be difficult for her to continue losing her own state.
BASH: Can I just ask you, as a donor for DeSantis, are you -- how do you feel about the way that the money was spent? That's A.
And B, is it also true -- you talked about the polling -- that he really didn't have any left or at least not sufficient funds to keep going?
LAMBERT: Well, no, there were funds to keep going through South Carolina, certainly. I don't want to imply there wasn't. We had a plan to do that. I think he could have easily gone for South Carolina.
But then the facts were that, hey, that's a winner take all state. So, do you spend a lot of money in South Carolina just to try and boost your numbers there? And then you'd have to rely on additional dollars once you go after South Carolina.
BASH: Right.
LAMBERT: And that was probably going to be extremely difficult at that point.
BASH: Let me just ask you, because we're almost out of time, you now are a free agent. Who are you going to back, and what are you looking for to make that decision?
LAMBERT: Well, I'm backing Donald Trump. I mean, 100 percent. And that's where we're going to have to go overall.
I think he's definitely going to be the nominee. I'm really curious to see who he picks for vice president. I think it's going to be important. I'm going to throw out who I think he should pick. I've been involved
in politics over 16 years, at the highest levels. I think and no one's talking about this, I think Governor Greg Abbott of Texas would be a masterful stroke. He brings a lot to the table.
He understands the border. He understands Mexico. Energy, we're the largest oil producer the world in Texas.
The economy, we're the eighth largest in the world from an economic standpoint. And his donors base is huge and he brings a lot of donors to the table. I think ultimately he could -- he could potentially stave off a No Labels candidate because there's a number of billionaire donors in Texas that were looking at a No Labels candidate. I think they would potentially not do that if Governor Abbott were in the race with Trump. I think he'd be a great vice president for him.
And I hope -- if the Trump campaign is watching, I hope he's on the short list to consider. I thought heavily about it, and I don't -- I don't see another VP out there that makes as much sense as he does.
BASH: Yeah, that is a new one. But you are coming to us from Texas. So, you certainly are pushing for the home team governor.
Thank you so much. Appreciate it. I -- it was really interesting to get your insight on what you heard happened inside the DeSantis campaign.
LAMBERT: Thank you very much.
BASH: Be well.
LAMBERT: Appreciate it.
BASH: And up next, hear how Nikki Haley is sharpening her attacks even more on Donald Trump, including continuing to question his mental fitness, after he confused her with Nancy Pelosi this weekend.
Plus, just from a numbers perspective, who benefits more by the exit of DeSantis? You just heard one of his donors saying it all goes to Donald Trump. We'll look deeper at it next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:47:41]
BASH: Welcome back to CNN's special coverage from New Hampshire, where Nikki Haley is stepping up her criticism of Donald Trump, something she hasn't really done over months of campaigning against him. Now it seems to be nonstop.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HALEY: He claimed that Joe Biden was going to get us into World War II. I'm assuming he meant World War III. He said he ran against President Obama. He never ran against President Obama. He says that I'm the one who kept security from the Capitol on January 6th. I was nowhere near the Capitol on January 6th.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: But did these attacks come too late? And is she really hitting him where it hurts the most?
That is one of the many questions that we want to talk about with CNN analyst Ron Brownstein and also Jackie Kucinich is joining me here, both from New Hampshire.
Nice to see you both.
I want to read to our viewers part of a story that you have up -- a piece that you have up, in "The Atlantic". And it's directly related to this. You say, Haley's reluctance to fully confront Trump probably betrays what she really thinks about the odds, that she can rest control of the party from him this year. In this break the glass moment for Trump's Republican opponent, Haley has made clear she will do no more than tap lightly at the window.
I would say she's -- she's got her knuckles -- she's rapping. I don't know she's going to break glass.
RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: She is not going to break glass. So, if you watch Haley, I think, she is comfortable criticizing Trump, where she does not have to make a value judgment about him.
So, her arguments are, I'm more electable. He's too old. I'm younger. Time for generational change. He's too old and the mental acuity is obviously coming into play this week.
When you asked her about E. Jean Carroll, she said, who, what? You know, an implausible answer. When a group of reporters asked her on Friday at the diner about her -- Trump's birther attacks on her and his using her immigrant ancestry in the way he's using his other candidates of color to suggest they're not real Americans or not eligible. She said, I'll leave it to voters to decide what he means.
[21:50:03]
She deserves a lot of credit. She is standing alone in a big gale, as much of the party, kind of, capitulates to Trump. But I think she has also made clear this week, she will go so far and no further in going after him and in challenging him. And I think that does reflect a certain uncertainty about whether they can ultimately wrest control of the party from him.
BASH: Yeah, and I'm sitting here listening to you thinking about Chris Christie trudging around New Hampshire, frustrated that people weren't going for the jugular with Donald Trump. And when you're talking about him, you're talking about the jugular, you're talking about authoritarianism. You're talking about January 6th and everything in between.
And she isn't doing that. She did go further than I've heard at CNN's town hall this past week in saying the notion that he should get immunity, any president should get immunity, is ridiculous.
I'm using -- I'm paraphrasing what she said, but that's effectively her message.
JACKIE KUCINICH, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, THE BOSTON GLOBE: She won't go near the court cases either. None of them have crossed that. In part, it's because the people she's talking to don't think that is something that's valid. It's not a valid criticism.
Where she has criticized him, things like the economy. The spending he did during his time in office have been a critical part of her stump speech basically from the beginning. But, listen, the kid gloves that he's been handled with from Haley, from DeSantis, from anyone not named Chris Christie is starting to bear fruit because these -- when voters are tuning in now, sure they're hearing it, but it's not what they've been hearing for months.
Now, we'll see what happens now that if she ends up staying in, depending how she does in New Hampshire, continuously, you know that Trump is going to ramp up the attacks. And that's when she has hit back increasingly. The more he says about her, seems like she's gone a little bit further against him.
BROWNSTEIN: It's still way symmetrical.
KUCINICH: Oh, completely.
BROWNSTEIN: You listen to Trump, what's interesting about the policy critiques, she essentially criticizes him from the perspective of a Reagan-era conservative. Like, that is where she is comfortable, where he can accuse him of kind of violating conservative principles as they are understood in the party pre-Trump on internationalism, on playing footsie with dictators, as she said, or by running of these kind of the Reagan principles.
But, you know, I feel like she is paying a cost for this because, obviously, Trump's attacks on her are leaving her with very little inroads on the right. And what really sunk her in Iowa was she failed to get the turnout she needed in the places she was strongest, in Des Moines suburbs, Story County, Johnson County, she won only about half as many votes as Rubio did, the same kind of voters, in '16.
And the comparable risk here is that this muffled nuance, you know, he was the right president at the time, chaos follows him rightly or wrongly, as if he's an innocent bystander, the risk is that she is simply not going to inspire the level of turnout she needs among undeclared voters who are most, you know, resistant to Trump because there's just not enough fuel in the engine there for them.
KUCINICH: Well, they have very different challenges here, right? I was at a Nikki Haley event in Peterborough, and she asked the crowd, who here is it your first time seeing me? And almost every hand went up.
And then I went to a JD Vance event for Trump elsewhere, and he asked who here this is your first Trump event. No one raised their hand. His challenge is turnout, getting his people the most passionate Trump fans to the polls. And hers is persuasion, getting these folks who might be on the fence, who might be undecided voters and getting them to vote for her.
We'll see how -- you know, how they do at the end of the day, but I think their challenges are very different.
BASH: Which is why you're hearing him say things like Nimarata, and you're hearing him sort of plant the seed of other, and doing the things that he knows historically has worked for him, to get the people who are his supporters to say, okay, I'm energized. I'm going to get off the couch, and I'm going to go vote.
BROWNSTEIN: Right. It's pretty striking she will not call it out. She explicitly refused to comment on it in any way. I'm not going to get -- in the town hall, she said, I don't want to get into personal attacks.
Okay. The issue is not whether you want to get into personal attacks. The issue is whether you view him as using racism against her. Look, all this criticism, you have to be impressed by what she has accomplished, outlasting all the guys on the stage, most of whom were better known than her.
BASH: The fellas.
BROWNSTEIN: The fellas. And she is standing alone.
So much of the party is, kind of, either consolidating or capitulating, depending on how you view it. And she is out there alone. But you know what? On Monday night in Iowa, she had that one line.
[21:55:01]
She said, I am the last best hope of avoiding this rematch that America doesn't want. And she has, kind of, you know, used that message. But she has not driven -- I mean, that was the message when she was here at 4:00 in the morning.
That was -- I'm kind of struck she's not been on TV like facing the camera, saying, America does not want this rematch. If you don't want this rematch, this is the place, this is the time, I am the candidate.
And she has not taken her resistance, her opposition to Trump, to that level, expressed that urgency. And I think that is going to cost her in the same way it did in Iowa among the voters who are the most resistant to Trump.
BASH: We've got 30 seconds.
KUCINICH: I mean, the time is now, right? Because the political terrain does not get any easier after New Hampshire. Nevada is a whole mess. No time to explain that right now.
And then South Carolina is a very Trump-friendly state, even though she was re-elected twice as governor. So, it really does -- this is the time to create an information structure.
BROWNSTEIN: It's the break the glass moment, as some would say.
KUCINIOCH: Instead of wrapping on the window.
(LAUGHTER)
BASH: All right. Nice to see you all.
KUCINICH: Likewise.
BASH: Appreciate it.
And thank you so much for being here. Don't miss CNN's special coverage of the New Hampshire primary starting at 4:00 p.m. Eastern on Tuesday. I'll be live right here in New Hampshire along with my colleagues. You will not want to miss it.
And coming up next, CNN's town hall with Nikki Haley, hosted by my colleague, Jake Tapper, from New England College in New Hampshire. Thank you so much for watching.
