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CNN Exclusive: Israel's Spy Chief Proposes Senior Hamas Leaders Leave Gaza As Part Of Broader Ceasefire Talks; Israel Defense Forces: 21 Israel Soldiers Killed In Southern Gaza Monday; Trump Versus Haley In New Hampshire Primary Tuesday; Ukraine Claims Drone Strike On Russian Oil Terminal; Indian PM Modi Inaugurates the Ram Temple in Ayodhya, Fulfilling a Long-standing Promise in Election Year; AfD's Alice Weidel Says Her Party Will Push for Brexit-like Referendum in Germany if it Comes to Power; Magnitude-7.1 Earthquake Rattles Northwestern China; Musk Claims X Has Less Anti-Semitic Content Than Other Sites. Aired 2-2:45a ET

Aired January 23, 2024 - 02:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[01:59:58]

ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world and to everyone streaming us on CNN Max. I'm Rosemary Church.

Just ahead. Israeli troops suffered their deadliest days since the war in Gaza began. We will have a live report with the latest details.

The U.S. and U.K. launch another round of strikes on Houthi targets in Yemen. But will it be enough to stop attacks in the Red Sea? And Nikki Haley faces a make-or-break moment in New Hampshire as voting gets underway in the nation's first presidential primaries.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Live from Atlanta. This is CNN NEWSROOM WITH ROSEMARIE CHURCH.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: Thanks for joining us.

Well, much more on the 21 Israeli soldiers killed in one operation in just a moment. But first, a CNN exclusive about a proposal for a ceasefire in Gaza. Israel spy chief is proposing that Hamas senior leaders could leave Gaza as part of a broader ceasefire agreement. That is according to two officials familiar with the ongoing discussions.

They tell CNN that although the deal would offer safe passage out of Gaza for some of the architects of the October 7th attack, the militants grip on the enclave could weaken once they are gone. The suggestion has been discussed as part of broader ceasefire negotiations, at least twice in recent weeks.

It's not clear who would be included in that deal. But there is no bigger target than top Hamas leader, Yahya Sinwar.

And let's go to journalist Elliott Gotkine now, following developments live from London. Good morning to you, Elliott. So, what more do we know about the IDF soldiers who died on Monday?

ELLIOTT GOTKINE, CNN JOURNALIST: Rosemary, details are still a little bit sketchy. But as you say, 21 soldiers, by far, the deadliest incident for Israeli troops since this war began on October the seventh in the wake of those Hamas massacres.

And what we know from the IDF's chief spokesman, Rear Admiral Daniel Hagari, is that an RPG, a rocket propelled grenade was fired towards its forces who were inside a couple of buildings in the central part of the Gaza Strip.

And that, at the same time -- this is around 4:00 p.m. on Monday, local time. At the same time, explosions were triggered inside those buildings, causing them to collapse on the troops in and around them.

And the working assumption of the IDF is that the explosions triggered in this building were from mines that the IDF itself had laid to destroy those two-story buildings and the infrastructure around it in order to make it easier for communities inside of Israel, the other side of the border, some 600 meters away to return to their homes.

Now, they've informed the families and they've named the names publicly of 10 of those soldiers who have died. And they are going to be releasing further details in due course.

And that brings the total number of IDF troops killed since the war began on October the seventh to more than 200. Rosemary?

CHURCH: And Elliott, what more are you learning about this proposal from Israel's spy chief to let senior Hamas leaders leave Gaza as part of those broader ceasefire talks?

GOTKINE: Well, from what we understand, this was a proposal put forward by David Barnea, the head of the Mossad, Israel's equivalent of the CIA. He, in fact, first conveyed this proposal to William Burns, the head of the CIA, and then, subsequently to Secretary of State Antony Blinken.

Now, the feedback from the Qataris, who have been integral to the mediation efforts between Israel and Hamas to get those more than 100 hostages still being held in the Gaza Strip freed, was that this is a non-starter.

And first of all, Hamas leaders may be able to leave. But as we saw just at the beginning of this month, that doesn't necessarily mean they are going to be any safer in southern Beirut, where a presumed Israeli assassination took out a senior Hamas commander, and where Israel has said that it will take down those senior Hamas leaders wherever they are in the world, they may take the view that they're safer on the ground, in the Gaza Strip.

And the other reason, because they will probably prefer to go down fighting against their sworn enemy, Israel than to accept this kind of proposal.

But the fact that we are talking about this proposal, and others that seem to have come from Hamas, may at least be seen as a positive in that there are talks about the potential for talks, to get some kind of hostage deal on the table, and to try to get some kind of ceasefire, whether it's temporary, or permanent.

And just finally, although history doesn't usually repeat itself, it does sometimes rhyme, and you may cast your minds back some 40 years to 1982. When Yasser Arafat, then the leader of the PLO in Beirut was allowed to leave effectively and go into exile with his forces in order to bring about an end to the Israel-Lebanon -- the Israel- Lebanon War in 1982.

That's not to say that this is the same scenario, but the idea of senior leaders leaving the battlefield in order to enable some kind of ceasefire to come into effect is something that as -- has happened in the past, Rosemary.

[02:05:08]

CHURCH: All right. Our thanks to Elliott Gotkine, joining us live from London.

Well, meantime, a major Israeli offensive is underway in Khan Younis, in southern Gaza. The Hamas-controlled health ministry in the region says dozens of people have been killed and wounded. Palestinian health officials say Israeli strikes are battering medical facilities, and Israeli forces stormed a hospital west of Khan Younis and detained a number of its medical staff.

A warning, the images you're about to see our graphic. A doctor at one of the medical facilities warns the situation is catastrophic and intensive care units are currently at capacity.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. AHMED ABU MUSTAFA, EMERGENCY DEPARTMENT, NASSER HOSPITAL: I'm telling you that the hospital is on the brink of collapse or almost collapsed. We have all collapsed. The hospital is almost falling short when it comes to medical staff and supplies. Nothing is reaching us. There is nothing in the hospital to treat the patients with. No painkillers, no anesthesia, or any medical resources.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: A source tell CNN, the Israeli offensive in Khan Younis expected to last several more days, or meantime a U.N. agency says nearly 80 percent of Gaza civilian population has been displaced since Israel launched its military operation on October 7th. A senior U.S. defense official says the latest U.S. and U.K. strikes against Houthi targets in Yemen were successful.

The targets include missiles, drone systems and weapons storage sites. This is the eighth round of strikes meant to deter Houthi attacks on commercial shipping in the Red Sea and Gulf of Aden. The Iran aligned Houthis control much of western Yemen including the Capital Sanaa. They say the attacks on shipping won't stop until Israel ends the war in Gaza.

The Houthi leader responded to the latest Western strikes, saying they will make the Yemeni people stronger and more determined.

Well, CNN's Scott McLean is following developments from Istanbul Turkey. He joins us now. So, Scott, what more are you learning about these latest joint U.S.-U.K. strikes on Houthi targets in Yemen.

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, good morning, Rosemary. Look, it was last week that President Biden was asked about these strikes on Houthi targets.

And he acknowledged that they were not working but he said that they would continue.

I would imagine that if he were asked the same question today, he would have a different answer. And that's because we have not seen another Houthi attack on shipping in the Red Sea since Thursday, when they merrily -- narrowly missed a U.S. own ship, they had claimed to have attacked a ship yesterday in the Red Sea.

But the Americans say that that simply is not true. So, in this particular case, Rosemary, you mentioned that there were eight sites that were targeted by the Americans and the British who also had backing from the Australians, the Canadians, the Dutch and Bahrain, as well.

And look, in recent days, we have seen strikes on ballistic missile sites that the American said posed an immediate threat to shipping. So, these were locked and loaded and aimed right at the Red Sea. In this case, you not only have the Americans claiming to hit ballistic missile sites, but also underground storage. So, perhaps there are not as many immediate threat sites to actually hit.

And so, there is some indication that these strikes are starting to work. The Pentagon says that they achieve the desired effect and removed a significant Houthi capability. But they also say that there are plenty more weapons that the Houthis have at their disposal, in part because the Americans believe that they're getting a steady supply from Iran, which backs the Houthis.

In fact, two U.S. Navy SEALs were killed last week trying to intercept a ship that the Americans believed was on route to Yemen to deliver more weapons. These are the same supply of weapons that have allowed Iran-backed militias to strike American interests in Iraq and Syria as of late as well.

And look, the strikes have not succeeded though in dampening the resolve of the Houthis.

In fact, the leadership says that they are more determined than ever to confront the U.S. and Britain and leadership said, "our people do not know how to surrender." And you have to remember, Rosemary, that from their point of view, these strikes from the Houthis on international shipping lanes are the noble thing to do to try to put pressure on the Americans to end the war in Gaza, and on the Israelis, obviously, to end the war in Gaza. And they view the U.S. as. in their words, protecting the terrorist criminal, meaning, Israel.

Obviously. the U.S. though, doesn't see any connection or any justification doesn't see the war in Gaza as any kind of justification for the Houthis to be attacking international shipping lanes. Rosemary?

[02:10:03]

CHURCH: All right. Our thanks to Scott McLean, joining us live from Istanbul. Many thanks.

Republican voters in the U.S. state of New Hampshire have a choice to make in the hours ahead, Donald Trump or Nikki Haley. Their decision could have a massive impact on the presidential race.

A handful of them have already had their ballots counted. The tiny township of Dixville Notch opens its polls at midnight and closes them just minutes later.

Nikki Haley took all six votes in Dixville Notch. But there will be many more votes to count as the day progresses.

For Haley the New Hampshire primary could be do or die if she loses here. Some experts think she may drop out of the race but at least for now she is putting up a fight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIKKI HALEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Chaos follows him. And we can't have a country in disarray in a world on fire and go to four more years of chaos. We won't survive it.

When you hear Trump speak. What's he talking about? Grievances the past. He is talking about vendettas?

CHURCH (voice over): CNN polling shows Trump with a 13-point lead in New Hampshire. But polls don't win elections. And the former president is keeping up his attacks on Haley.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: She worked for me like for 2-1/2 years. And she was OK. Not great. She was OK. But she said to everybody. In fact, when she left, I would never run against the president. He was a great president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: At a New Hampshire rally Monday night, Trump was joined on stage by former presidential candidates, Vivek Ramaswamy, Tim Scott, and Doug Burgum. Each has thrown their support behind Trump.

Well, Haley's supporters urging her to stay in the race no matter what happens in Tuesday's primary,

CNN's Jeff Zeleny is in New Hampshire with more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TRUMP: We have to win on Tuesday,

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice over): It's a two-person race in New Hampshire. The question is for how long,

HALEY: America doesn't do coronations. We believe in choices.

ZELENY (voice over): On the eve of the New Hampshire primary, Nikki Haley stands as the last remaining challenger to Donald Trump. In a one-on-one contest, that could show his vulnerable or unstoppable and on a march to the Republican nomination.

HALEY: Can you hear that sound? That's the sound of a two-person race.

ZELENY (voice over): The former president heading back to New Hampshire for one final rally before the voting begins, embraced by former rivals rallying around his candidacy after Ron DeSantis threw in the towel on Sunday.

TRUMP: They ran a really good campaign I will tell you. It's not easy.

ZELENY (voice over): In rally after rally. Trump's closing arguments revolved as much around defending his pending legal cases suggesting the president can act outside the law that articulating a vision for the party's future.

TRUMP: If you have a president that doesn't have immunity, he's never going to be free to do anything.

ZELENY (voice over): To keep the primary race alive. Haley is trying to build a coalition of independents and Republicans like Carol Booth who met Haley today at a Manchester brewery.

CAROL BOOTH, NEW HAMPSHIRE VOTER: I just feel she has a shot, especially now that DeSantis is gone. I think that between her and Trump, I think Nikki's got a -- she's got a good chance.

ERIC MEYER, NEW HAMPSHIRE VOTER: Wouldn't it for you?

HALEY: Get everybody else to vote, get all your friends out. Get it done.

ZELENY (voice over): Eric Meyer left the Republican Party when Trump was elected. He believes Haley could unify the country and win the White House.

MEYER: And it seems like she wants to sustain her campaign, at least with South Carolina. So, that gives me hope.

ZELENY (voice over): Some Haley supporters fear it's an uphill battle. But the New Hampshire primary has a storied history of delivering surprises.

BILL CLINTON, 42ND PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: New Hampshire tonight has made Bill Clinton the comeback kid. And different verdicts than the Iowa caucuses.

In 2000, John McCain's resounding victory over George W. Bush.

JOHN MCCAIN, FORMER SENATOR, ARIZONA: On the South Carolina. Thank you.

ZELENY: And in 2008, Hillary Clinton's defeat of Barack Obama opened an epic fight for delegates.

HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES: We are in it for the long ride.

Yet history may offer limited lessons for this race, considering Trump as a quasi-incumbent, who is swiftly coalescing the Republican Party around him and eyeing a rematch with Joe Biden.

TRUMP: This is the greatest movement in the history of politics of this country.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZELENY: As Nikki Haley was making last minute appeals to voters on Monday in Manchester, one man approached her and said, stay in the race, stay in the race.

She said, don't worry, we will stay in the race until South Carolina. That primary, of course, is February 24th. But the question is does she leave New Hampshire as a winner, or reassessing her candidacy to Donald Trump. Jeff Zeleny, CNN, Salem, New Hampshire.

CHURCH: Ukrainian troops are dealing with a dwindling supply of ammunition as Russia's war grinds on.

[02:15:01]

What some units on the frontlines are enduring just ahead.

Plus, Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi, officially opens a Hindu temple. Why that could be a major milestone in his efforts to move India away from a secular democracy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHURCH: Welcome back, everyone. Critical funding for Ukraine remains stalled in the U.S. as Russia's bombardment continues. Members of Congress are struggling to reach a deal on border policy changes which Republicans have tied to aid for Ukraine in a new national security package.

It's not clear when the Senate will be able to vote on the legislation, but one of the top negotiators says it would be quite a push to begin voting this week. Without a steady flow of military aid Ukrainian forces are running out of supplies and ammunition.

CNN's Fred Pleitgen takes a closer look at the desperate situation on the ground.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Artillery is key as Ukrainian forces tried to hold off massive Russian assaults on the eastern front. But Kyiv's ammo shortages are getting worse by the day. This U.S.-provided M109 Paladin howitzer near Bakhmut is often silent because they don't have enough shells to target the Russians, the commander tells us.

We cannot fulfil our tasks 100 percent, he says. Although we really want to. My crew and other crews are just waiting for it and are ready to work around the clock.

But it gets even worse. Finally, resupply does arrive, but it's only four rounds. And this type of ammo won't hurt the Russians much.

PLEITGEN: This really illustrates the shortages that Ukrainians have to deal with. Four rounds, that's all they are going to get right now. And, by the way, they are not even explosive rounds, their smoke rounds.

PLEITGEN (voice over): These shells will barely explode on impact.

It's almost like firing cannon balls in mediaeval times. But the commander says sometimes it's all they can do.

Every shell that is suitable for the Paladin we use, he says, it's better than no shells. The Russians face no such shortages in this area. Ukrainian military intelligence believes Russia produced around 2 million rounds last year and acquired around 1 million from North Korea.

Massive barrages have laid waste to Bakhmut, and much of the surrounding area.

At the headquarters of the 93rd mechanized brigades' artillery division, the frustration is palpable from their drones, they can see the Russians gathered to continue their assaults and Ukrainian positions. But they often can't take them out because they need to conserve ammunition, the commander tells me.

The ratio was about 10 to one, he says. Ammunition is very important to us. Russia is a country that produces ammo, they have strategic reserves. Yes, they use old Soviet system, but Soviet systems can still kill.

[02:20:03]

Even without enough ammo, the Ukrainian say they are stopping most Russian assaults here. And the M109 crew did manage to fire at Russian positions.

But they know they'll need a lot more firepower to stop Russian advances.

Fred Pleitgen, CNN, near Bakhmut, Ukraine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: Ukraine's army is denying responsibility for the attacks on a market in Russian occupied Donetsk on Sunday, where Russia said, at least 28 people were killed.

The Ukrainian military says the Russians are spreading misinformation and must be held accountable for the Ukrainian lives they have taken.

Russian appointed official claims Ukraine launched 27 attacks in several parts of the region, damaging residential buildings, shops, and a school.

Let's bring in Malcolm Davis, who is a senior analyst at the Australian strategic policy institute. Appreciate you being with us.

MALCOLM DAVIS, SENIOR ANALYST FOR DEFENSE, STRATEGY, AND CAPABILITY, AUSTRALIAN STRATEGIC POLICY INSTITUTE: Our thanks, Rosemary.

So, what is your assessment of the current status of the war in Ukraine in the wake of that attack on Russian occupied parts of the Donetsk region and on a Russian oil depo over the weekend?

Look, I think things are at approaching an inflection point in terms of the sorts of issues your report just highlighted the lack of ammunition, or Ukrainian forces, the concerns over the western military support drying up in the course of this year due to political infighting in the U.S. and also lack of support in Europe. So, I think Ukrainians are really starting to face a difficult situation.

If that support doesn't keep going then, the Ukrainians will be very hard pressed to defend against Russian offensives going into 2025.

So, what the Ukrainians can do, I think, is strike at long range targets. And that oil depo, I think was a classic example of that, that they are having to conserve ammunition. And if the if the supplies dry up, they're in a dangerous situation.

CHURCH: Yes, we were seeing Ukraine retreat along parts of the frontline, aren't we? But at the same time, we're also seeing them strike on Russian targets like the oil depot, as you're saying these long-range targets.

So, are they making progress in that, though? And how does that compare to progress made by Russian troops at this juncture?

DAVIS: I think what the Ukrainians are trying to do is disrupt Russia's war making ability by these long-range strikes. But the brutal reality is that Putin has successfully transitioned his economy into a wartime economy with a massive military industrial capacity, Western sanctions have not been effective in preventing that from happening.

And now, Western military assistance from the U.S. and Europe looks uncertain. So, from Putin's perspective, he is playing the long game in terms of outlasting Western resolve, such that when, or if that Western military assistance dries up, particularly, for example, if Donald Trump were to win in November of this year, and become president, then, Putin's Russia is well placed them to go on the offensive in 2025, and turn the tide of the war.

CHURCH: Yes, that would change everything, wouldn't it?

And as you said, this much needed military funding for Ukraine remains stalled in Europe and in the U.S. Congress, as Russia continues to strike Ukrainian targets and the war-torn nation is desperate for military supplies and ammunition.

So, how might that delayed funding impact changes in military tactics?

You did touch on this, of course, talking about these long range? And that's -- that was a successful long-range attack on the Russian oil depo, wasn't it? So, I mean, they are hanging in there, aren't they? Despite the fact that they have depleted supplies?

DAVIS: I think they have to, if they give up, if they withdraw and retreat rapidly, the Russians will simply advance into that area. And they are not only losing territory, they are losing the lives of the Ukrainians, civilians in those areas.

So, the Ukrainian military have to keep on fighting as best as they can. They have to prioritize their firepower in terms of the missions they use that for, and they have to identify targets that are going to have the greatest effect on Russia's ability to sustain operations throughout this year.

But I think the real test comes late this year going into next year. If that Western military support is not there, then, we could see Russia turn the tide of the war.

And then, we are in a much more dangerous situation across the breadth of Europe because you have an emboldened Russia that perhaps is more willing to confront NATO directly in 2025 or 2026.

CHURCH: And Malcolm, do you see any off ramp here for peace negotiations or is the fact that these funds are stalled that's embossed

And Malcolm, do you see any off ramp here for peace negotiations? Or is the fact that these funds are stalled? That's emboldening Russia and Russia's president, as you mentioned. So, he will just sit this out. There is no nothing that would bring him to the negotiating table at this juncture, right?

DAVIS: Yes, exactly. I mean, Putin is not interested in peace negotiations, and he sent Lavrov to the U.N. where basically Lavrov said, we'll have a peace negotiation to bring about the end of the Zelensky government. I think that Putin is not interested in peace, because he thinks he can outlast the West. And certainly, to have peace negotiations now would require your Ukraine to surrender territory and people to the Russians. And those people would be killed. So, there is no off ramp here.

The best-case scenario is that the West gets and act together and start supplying Ukraine with the capabilities that it needs to turn this around and win this war.

Worst case scenario is that that middle military assistance fails, Russia wins the war and then turns its attention on to NATO itself.

CHURCH: Malcolm Davis, very sobering answers there. Thank you so much for joining us and sharing your analysis. Appreciate it.

DAVIS: Thank you.

Well, in the coming hours, the Turkish parliament is set to debate Sweden's bid for NATO's membership. That is, according to sources and approval by Turkish lawmakers would end a delay that has strained Ankara's ties with Western allies. Sweden and neighboring Finland began the process of joining the military alliance in 2022, following Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

But Turkey along with Hungary kept Sweden waiting until it toughened its stance on local members of the Kurdistan Workers Party. Ankara's -- Ankara has deemed terrorists.

Well, still to come, a controversial Hindu temple has been inaugurated by the Indian prime minister, why analysts say this could help Narendra Modi with a rare third term in this year's elections.

We're back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[02:30:00]

CHURCH: Welcome back everyone. A controversial Hindu temple is now open to the Indian public. Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi inaugurated the Ram Temple in Ayodhya on Monday, fulfilling a key promise as he seeks re-election this year. The temple stands on the side of a 16th century mosque that was destroyed by Hindu nationalists in 1992, triggering nationwide riots that killed about 2,000 people. CNN's Vedika Sud is live for us in India right now. They are at the temple in fact. Vedika, what is the mood near the temple today, now that it is open to the public, of course?

VEDIKA SUD, CNN REPORTER: Rosemary, I'm going to try and move out of the frame for a moment to show you the crowds behind us. Massive security presence as well here, people walking across this road that has now been cordoned off. It is turning out to be a bit of a security nightmare because ever since three o'clock this morning, there have been thousands of people who've been gathering at the gates of the temple that have been thrown open to the general public. Today is day one, a day after the concentration that was presided over by the Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi. Some of them have managed to go in, but a huge significant amount of people are still waiting. The gates have been closed till about 2:00 p.m. local time. It will be reopened then. But from what we can see, it is turning out to be a logistical issue for the security personnel here. You have the police personnel on megaphones here, requesting the people to keep moving so that there is no stampede-like situation. They are asking people to cooperate.

Now, we did speak to some officials over the last few months about what they are anticipating in terms of the response by the general public to the opening of the temple, and one of the officials who has been very closely monitoring the developments here had to say that they expected about 100,000 people per day, Rosemary, which means according to him, that an individual, when he or she enters the inner sanctorum, will not get more than 20 seconds inside. That is barely any few moments really inside the sanctum sanctorum.

But the larger picture here, of course, is that while there is celebration on the roads here, there are alley ways here in Ayodhya itself where Muslims reside and for them, it's not been a moment of joy, but a moment of pain because they claim and they have spoken to us, they say they feel like second-class citizens. And now, when they see the celebrations on the roads, it just brings back memories of 1992 that you spoke off in detail.

Now, wherever you walk, in the alley ways, on the main roads of Ayodhya, you will see a billboard of the Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi every ten meters, and I am not exaggerating here. And that in itself does indicate how Narendra Modi and the government are getting ready for a third running term as the government here. They are seeking another term in the general election, which is due in May this year.

And with Modi presiding over that religious ceremony, which a lot of critics have also gone ahead and expressed concern over, because the word secular is a part of the Indian Constitution. So these critics ask, in a secular nation, "Why is the Indian prime minister presiding over a religious ceremony?" Opposition leaders also boycotted the event yesterday, mentioning that Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi and his government have been politicizing the issue. Back to you, Rosemary.

CHURCH: All right, thanks to Vedika Sud, live there at Ayodhya in India. Well, a top leader of Germany's far-right party says her party will push for a Brexit-style referendum if it comes to power. Alice Weidel of the Alternative for Germany Party or AfD told the "Financial Times," the U.K.'s Brexit referendum was a model for Germany that they can follow. That stance is greatly at odds with Germany's mainstream parties and the general public, which overwhelmingly support staying in the EU.

Now, this also comes as hundreds of thousands of Germans have been protesting against the AfD after reports that senior members were discussing plans for the mass deportation of migrants. And joining me now is CNN European Affairs Commentator Dominic Thomas, joins us live from Los Angeles. Good to see you. DOMINIC THOMAS, CNN EUROPEAN AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR: Thanks for having me on, Rosemary.

CHURCH: So as we just reported, we saw tens of thousands of people protesting in Germany over the weekend, pushing back against the far- right AfD Party and its plans for immigrants. Why do you think we are seeing this shift to the far right in Germany and across many parts of Europe? What is going on exactly?

THOMAS: Yeah. So, it is a great question and obviously, we have been watching over the last 15 years, 20 years these far-right parties that overwhelmingly sort of have a Venn diagram of issues that tend to bring them together.

[02:35:00]

THOMAS: The question of Europe is always there, but primarily the question of immigration. And what we have seen across the board is every single election in Europe, and it is really not only there, we see it in the United States as well, that the question of immigration and of asylum seeking and so on has become a primary issue.

And we are seeing these political parties play on these emotions and make further in-roads into the political landscape. And as that has happened, and as they have increasingly poached on support for mainstream parties, we are seeing some of those mainstream parties that historically had refused to work with them, starting to either forge alliances or consider forging alliances with them. And that is granting them, Rosemary, some kind of legitimacy here as they move forward.

CHURCH: And Dominic, would you describe this as a shift to the far right, or are we -- are we talking about a surge of that sentiment across Europe, and how might it impact the outcome of the EU election in June do you think?

THOMAS: Well, I think that when the writing is on the wall that the EU elections that are upcoming are most likely going to be a resounding success for these political parties. So, I think that's one observation. The other one is, when you just look at the ways in which these political parties have not just moved into parliament, but actually into governance over recent years and you can see the ways in which the appeal of these platforms are working. You see Hungary, you see Italy. We saw in the Netherlands, Wilders' party come out ahead and now work towards forging a coalition.

And I think one of the most interesting examples is the case of France, where in 2017 and 2022, Emmanuel Macron in the runoff stages against the far-right Marine Le Pen argued that it was absolutely imperative to put up a front and to block her. And at the end of 2023, in order to pass harsher immigration legislation, essentially kind of flirting with this political party, is an indication that he is also moving away from those particular issues and rather than coming up with alternative plans, essentially taking far-right political agendas and mainstreaming them as a way to try to secure popularity and demonstrate as a real response to the fear and concern that they have of the sort of prominence that these parties are gaining now, Rosemary.

CHURCH: And how can Europe contain this far-right movement across the continent? And how extensive is it, do you think? Is it possible to curtail it (ph)?

THOMAS: Well, that's the big question really, because we see this playing out in every single election. It's either political parties that are opposing these harsher measures and therefore, not devoting adequate number -- time to their own sort of new projects and plans. But I think what we saw in the German context over this weekend, it's not just outcry and outrage at the AfD's platforms, but it's some of the sort of very sinister policies that they're talking about. I mean, deporting German citizens that in their estimation do not demonstrate to the adequate integration. These are sort of concerns and I think that those demonstrations show the extent to which this is polarizing in Europe.

And now, not everybody shares the ideas of these political -- these political parties. The question is, how does one go about combating this sort of scare and fear mongering, which are very powerful kind of politics of emotions that detract from the real issues at stake. And that's what many governance and many political parties have as yet not come up with solutions, to be able to combat these agendas, but rather working with them.

CHURCH: Dominic Thomas, thank you so much for joining us and sharing your perspective on this. Appreciate it.

THOMAS: Thank you, Rosemary.

CHURCH: And we'll be right back.

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[02:41:08]

CHURCH: A magnitude 7.1 earthquake struck northwestern Chinas, Xinjiang province, early Tuesday local time. The quake had a depth of 13 kilometers according to the U.S. Geological Survey. Videos show fish tanks and light fixtures swaying, state media reports that at least three people were hospitalized and a child was pulled from the rubble. Hundreds of rescue workers are being deployed to the quake zone and dozens of aftershocks have been reported.

Without providing any evidence, Elon Musk has claimed his platform X, formerly known as Twitter, has less anti-Semitic content than other social media platforms. The billionaire's comments came after he visited the Auschwitz Death Camp in Poland with his three-year-old son. He also attended a conference of the European Jewish Association, during which he admitted that he was not aware until recently that anti-Semitism was a pervasive problem in the United States. Musk has faced heavy backlash over anti-Semitic content on X, including a conspiracy theory that he amplified himself in November of last year.

Well, thanks so much for joining us. I'm Rosemary Church. "World Sport" is coming up next. And then, I'll be back in about 15 minutes with more "CNN Newsroom." Do stick around.

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