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Trump Repeats Anti-Immigrant Rhetoric, Issues Dark Warnings.; Trump Ordered To Pay $83.3 Million To E. Jean Carroll; New Documentary Examines Whether January 6 Could Happen Again; Head Of UN Palestinian Agency Urges Countries To "Reconsider" Decision To Suspend Funding; Haley Campaigns In South Carolina Amid Calls To Drop Out; Trump Doesn't Mention Carroll Case In First Public Remarks Since Jury Decision; Haley Remains Defiant About 2024 Bid As She Holds Rally In SC. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired January 27, 2024 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CHRIS WALLACE, CNN HOST: And briefly because we always mention Taylor Swift.

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WALLACE: Thank you all for being here, gang.

Thank you for spending part of your day with us. We'll see you right back here next week.

[18:00:33]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington. Good evening.

Tonight, fresh off of his $83 million damage verdict for defaming E. Jean Carroll, Donald Trump is making news with what he is not saying. Notably, he is not saying anything about her so far.

The former president did, however, keep to immigration, warning that he believes a surge of migrants at the southern border will lead to a major terrorist attack.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They're pouring into our country and they're coming from prisons, they are coming from mental institutions and insane asylums. They're human traffickers, they're coming in. They are drug dealers, they're coming in.

The country is going to hell because of incompetent or bad people. Terrorists are pouring in unchecked from all over the world. We have bought terrorists than --

Record number of terrorists coming into our country and there is a 100 percent chance that there will be a major terrorist attack in the United States, or many attacks maybe, and it's all because of what's happened over the last three years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: We should note while border encounters with people on the terrorist watchlist have increased, most of those have been at the northern border. And even as Trump continues to call the immigration surge, an "invasion," he urged Republicans this week to sink a deal that would give the president authority to close the border saying it would be "a gift to the Democrats."

He also seemed to admit the political value of the crisis, bemoaning that he couldn't run on the border issue in the last election.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I didn't have the border to run on because I did such a good job with the border that the border wasn't an issue. I took it out of play. And now I'm saying that border is in play like it's never been in play before because what they've done is they've taken all of the things that I did to make it so good. Literally, we couldn't put it into speech.

But now, we can talk about the border because it's never ever been worse than it is now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Trump also threatened his chief political rival saying President Biden won't get away with what he described as "crimes."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Let there be no doubt what Joe Biden is doing is a crime against our nation. It's an absolute betrayal of our country and it is an atrocity against our Constitution. Nobody has ever seen anything like it.

Crooked Joe will not get away with these crimes. He will be tried at the ballot box in November.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: As President Biden is also campaigning tonight in Columbia, South Carolina, he is throwing his support behind a bipartisan Senate border bill.

Sources say it would give the US the authority to crack down on illegal migrant crossings. It would also allow a president to shut down the southern border when it's overwhelmed.

Biden's moves are also sparking some backlash from certain progressives.

CNN's Priscilla Alvarez joins us now.

Priscilla, the president speaks just a short time from now. What more can you tell us?

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, this is a stark shift from the White House position in the early days of the administration, and it is a way to fend off former President Donald Trump's attacks on immigration policy.

President Biden releasing a rare statement Friday evening as these talks are ongoing in which he said that the deal that is coming together by Senate negotiators is tough and fair. But it was one line in particular, Jim, that really stood out to the current and former Homeland Security officials that I've been talking to as well as immigrant advocates, and it was this one: "It would give me as, president, a new emergency authority to shut down the border when it becomes overwhelmed and if given that authority, I would use it the day I sign the bill into law."

That is a restriction that is similar to what the former President Donald Trump did during the coronavirus pandemic, which was invoke a public health authority that allowed officials to turn migrants away at the US southern border.

Now, at the time, Democrats, progressives and immigrant advocates condemned that move saying that that is not a policy that should be taken by the US and it did mark a departure from decades' long protocol, but the reality for President Biden is that the handling of the US southern border has been a political liability for him from the beginning and it has only gotten worse as there have been surges on the US southern border during his time in office, giving Republicans room to seize on the issue and slam him for it.

[18:05:15]

Going so far as to also launch an impeachment inquiry against his Homeland Security Secretary.

So this was a moment where President Biden seemed to try to get on the board by saying he is willing to take a tougher stance on immigration and get ahead of former President Donald Trump who is trying to tank that compromise -- Jim.

ACOSTA: All right, Priscilla Alvarez, keep us posted what the president says. We appreciate it very much.

And joining me now is former Democratic congressman, Beto O'Rourke of Texas.

Congressman, great to see you. Thanks for coming on. We appreciate it.

Let's listen to what Trump just said about the border bill in Congress.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: As the leader of our party, there is zero chance I will support this betrayal of America. It's not going to happen.

[CHEERING AND APPLAUSE]

TRUMP: I noticed -- I noticed that a lot of the senators are trying to say respectfully, they are blending in and they are saying, that's okay. He is blaming me, please blame it on me, please, because they were getting ready to pass a very bad bill and I'll tell you what, a bad bill is I'd rather have no bill than a bad bill.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: So Congressman, you heard Trump right there. It was a little garbled there in the beginning, but he was essentially saying, blame it on me, Donald Trump is saying if this bill does not get through the Congress and get to the White House for the president's signature, what's your response to that?

BETO O'ROURKE, FORMER US REPRESENTATIVE: It's very clear that Donald Trump and his Republican Party do not want a solution.

For all the bluster about the chaos at the border and the "invasion" that they're talking about, he and his Republican Party are tanking the best offer that they're ever going to get from President Biden and from Senate Democrats.

President Biden and Senate Dems have conceded on almost every major point without getting any new provisions for DREAMers for legal pathways to citizenship.

This is really a Republican dream bill and he has torpedoed it, because he'd rather use this as a political issue in November. So it's very clear now that the Republican Party is all for chaos on the border, welcoming the disorder and the lack of security that we're seeing in Texas right now, not just from Donald Trump, but exacerbated by our governor who openly muses about shooting migrants, who is defying the Supreme Court, the US Constitution, the federal government, potentially precipitating a constitutional crisis, and definitely inspiring civil war dead enders from across the country who are promising now to come to Texas and to shoot people, just like they did on August 3, 2019.

This is a very dangerous time. President Trump and the Republicans are making it more so.

ACOSTA: And Congressman, I know used to represent El Paso in the Congress and I wanted to ask you, what do you think of this border agreement that's taking shape? The president has thrown his support behind it.

You mentioned it is a Republican dream bill, but do you think he should take it? He should sign it?

O'ROURKE: Not without gaining new provisions for legal pathways for people to come to this country.

Jim, the biggest problem is that there are so many people who are fleeing countries from which they cannot stay or they'll die, and they don't have enough legal opportunities to come to this country. That's why you see folks crossing in between ports of entry, risking drowning and death and potentially being pushed back into the river by Greg Abbott's DPS troopers.

Let's see more asylum appointments. Let's adjudicate those asylum requests more expeditiously. Jim, that means that if you've qualified and you're able to stay in this country, we welcome you. If you're not, we send you back to the country from which you came.

I think every Republican, Democrat, and Independent can agree on that much, but Republicans are withholding the authority and the resources from President Biden to be able to get that job done. And not that we want to make this a competition about deportations, but you look at the number of people that President Biden has deported, compare that to President Trump and it is very clear that you have an enforcement heavy administration right now, who is effectively, Jim, being kept from doing their job.

Literally, Border Patrol agents are being kept by Department of Public Safety troopers in Texas from accessing the border so that they can apprehend and arrest migrants who cross in between ports of entry, and to save those who are unfortunately drowning in the river right now.

This chaos that you see, is totally owned by Republicans.

ACOSTA: And what do you think the president should do about this? I mean, he is really butting heads with the governor of Texas right now over this. What should the White House do?

O'ROURKE: Well, it is clear now that Republicans have not been negotiating in good faith.

[18:10:10]

The deal that the president had agreed to has been torpedoed by Donald Trump. It is now important for him to take leadership on this issue, and to bypass Congress, and that means making sure that there are more opportunities for people to lawfully, orderly, and safely seek asylum.

It means working with other hemispheric partners to reduce the challenges they face so that they can keep more of these refugees in their country.

For example, Colombia has taken millions of Venezuelan refugees. Let's support Colombia, so those refugees and asylum seekers can stay there, instead of feeling like they've got to come to the United States of America.

And then importantly, I think he has to show all of us in this country, that he is taking ownership of this issue. That's how he is going to win this election. That's how he sets the table for his second administration, where he can lead on comprehensive immigration reform. That's what's really going to fix the problem that we have at our border right now.

ACOSTA: And, Congressman, I want to get your reaction to something Senator Ted Cruz said earlier this week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARTHA MACCALLUM, FOX NEWS CHANNEL HOST: Are you saying that there's no reason to have a border bill?

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): We don't need a border bill. It's not that Joe Biden is bad at his job, that he's negligent, that he doesn't know how to do it. He wants this crisis because he gets a political benefit. He believes from it. He could solve it overnight because he caused it overnight.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Congressman, I mean, I think Senator Cruz made those comments as Donald Trump and his allies were starting to make the rounds on the Hill and let it be known that he is not supportive of this bipartisan immigration agreement that is taking shape. What was your response to that when you heard Senator Cruz say that?

O'ROURKE: It's another example of Ted Cruz and his -- Donald Trump's Republican Party operating in a different reality than ours. They call black, white; war, peace. They describe the president manufacturing a crisis to enjoy the political benefit when they're literally admitting that they're doing that.

Mitt Romney, the senator this last week, said as much. Donald Trump just said that in the clip that you just played, they want to run on this issue, and they're creating chaos to benefit from it.

But showing that clip of Ted Cruz reminds us that one of the most competitive Senate races in the country this year, the best pickup opportunity for Democrats is right here in Texas, and that we don't know who the Democratic nominee will be yet. We can beat him.

We got really close in 2018. Our group, Powered by People, is registering hundreds of thousands of voters right now to show up and to vote on this very issue.

Texans don't support this march to secession, this incitement to insurrection, this idea that our governor is welcoming shooting migrants, that Ted Cruz is going to torpedo the best hope we have at a real border deal.

They want governance, they want accountability. They want to see us move forward to a safe, orderly, and legal process for people to come here the right way. That's what Democrats stand for.

ACOSTA: All right, Beto O'Rourke, thank you very much for your time this evening. Really appreciate it.

O'ROURKE: Thank you, Jim. ACOSTA: All right, and he managed the rare feat of winning an Alabama Senate seat as a Democrat. And after the break, we're talking with former senator, Doug Jones, there he is right there, about his party's efforts to fight Trump and his political influence and I might also ask Doug Jones about a certain documentary that he is appearing in that's going to be coming out soon.

We'll talk about that in just a moment. Be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:17:53]

ACOSTA: All right, moments from now, President Biden is set to speak in Columbia, South Carolina as he looks to gin up support among Democrats heading into a likely rematch with former President Donald Trump.

Joining us now to discuss is former Democratic senator, Doug Jones of Alabama.

Senator Jones, great to see as always. Really appreciate it. Let me ask you about the president's event tonight. He is expected to make the case that Trump is a threat to communities of color. Recent polls have him underperforming though among African-American voters by double digits compared to 2020.

You had that support obviously, when you won that Senate seat in Alabama. What do you think of what's happening right now? Why is the president underperforming in that category versus four years ago? How could he turn that around?

DOUG JONES (D), FORMER US SENATOR: Well, I think, Jim, he is going to -- he has been turning it around. I think if you see things in the country today, you're seeing consumer confidence up. You're seeing people feeling good about where things are in this country. And that's going to happen in communities of color as well, particularly with Black men.

I think right now, as people start seeing the contrast, they're going to see a president in the United States that has worked for them consistently his entire career or for over 50 years, not just when he was president, but as vice president, as US senator.

They are going to be reminded of that. People are going to be reintroduced to Joe Biden, the public servant, as well as Joe Biden, the president and all he has done over the last three or four years. And when you make that comparison, there is no comparison, and I think once we get into this campaign, as we're seeing now and the contrast between Donald Trump and Joe Biden, those numbers are going to shift. Those numbers are going to tick back up. I have every confidence in that.

ACOSTA: Well, we're getting kind of a sneak preview of the general election matchup today with this Trump rally that he had earlier this afternoon, as well as the president's speech this evening. But on Friday, I wanted to ask you about this. A judge ordered Trump to pay the writer, E. Jean Carroll more than $83 million for his continued defamatory statements against her. That verdict came after another jury found Trump liable for sexually abusing her in the 90s.

[18:20:07]

Here is how he addressed it this evening. Take a listen to this. He really did not talk about E. Jean Carroll here. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: They're doing with elections -- election interference affairs, as an example, what they do with me. Look at yesterday. Look at all of this crap that's going on. But we keep marching forward, we just keep going.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: So that's about as close as he came to mentioning E. Jean Carroll. He did not mention her by name. I suppose he could do that later on tonight, or this weekend or something like that.

But is it possible that she has done something here that might have been thought impossible, and that is essentially to keep her name out of his mouth?

JONES: Well, I think there's no question about that. I mean, every time he says her name, you know, there's just a cha-ching going on at the cash register these days.

So yes, I think he has done that. He was well-schooled to stay away from that today, but he is also like a small child. You know, he always wants to blame someone else.

This was Donald Trump's words. This is the things that he said. That's what the jury heard. They didn't hear anything about Democrats or some plot to keep him off the ballot.

What they heard was his words and the defamatory words. So I think that this is going to chip away, it is a myriad of problems that I think he faces in the campaign. And some of the polling, the exit polling, we saw it in both Iowa, but particularly New Hampshire, I think is indicative of the problems that he's going to have come November.

ACOSTA: And you were in the Senate, I want to ask you about the emerging immigration deal in the Senate. It would give the president authority to restrict crossings at the southern border. He has vowed to use it.

Trump is urging Republicans to reject the plan. We were playing some of that sound at the beginning of this program. He is essentially saying he doesn't want a border deal, because he wants to campaign on the issue heading into the fall. What do you make of all that? And the way things have cooled off in the Senate somewhat among some Republicans who might have supported this agreement because of Trump intervening.

JONES: Yes. I think, you know, Donald Trump just confirmed what Democrats had been saying about trying to work on immigration reform for many years, even when I was in the Senate.

He confirmed that Republicans want to run on this issue, or at least Donald Trump wants to run on this issue. He is doing the same thing, Jim, he did in 2018.

When I first got to the Senate, he had set some parameters to work on DACA, to work on border security. And there was a group of bipartisan group of senators that got together and for about two months, we met at least once or twice a week, and crafted a bill to do just that, and it came up about three or four votes short, because at the last minute, Donald Trump says no, it's not enough, I want full scale border and immigration reform.

He is doing the same thing now. He does not want a deal. He wants to run. He wants to make it an issue.

I am hoping that Republicans can find at least 10 votes to get across the finish line in the Senate exactly whatever they come up with, because Democrats, I believe will support it, some will support it reluctantly, because it does not go as far as they would like on a number of issues. But yet, if they can craft something that will pass the Senate, it will be a major milestone in immigration reform, and I hope the House will take it up, pass it and let the president sign it.

And just let Donald Trump squawk about it and complain about it, but at least this Congress will have gotten something done on it.

ACOSTA: And next hour, we're going to be speaking with the directors of this new documentary called "War Game" that you participated.

It follows real world -- in case people haven't heard about this. It's fascinating. It follows real world politicians and military leaders who simulated an insurrection after this year's elections, similar to what happened on January 6, I guess to see, and you can fill us in on this to see how the country might respond if a January -- something worse than a January 6 happens.

What did you make of all this? What did you think of your participation in this and the project itself?

JONES: Well, you know, look, I really enjoyed it. It was great to get back with some old friends like Heidi Heitkamp and Wes Clark and new friends like Steve Bullock.

I think it was an intense progress. It was not scripted. It was all -- it's literally a war game about another insurrection. But you know, Jim, I think that these kind of films are very, very important for the public to see to me reminded of how close that we came on January 6, 2021 of losing our government, of losing our democracy. And there are forces still out there that are making plans for the future to do the exact same thing or a variation of that.

And so I think it's important -- I'm hoping this film will get picked up and distributed so we can get a wide audience. It was a lot of fun to do. It was intense and what you will see in the film when people get to see it, everyone took their roles very, very seriously and really got into it for the six hours that we were there.

[18:25:09]

So I'm hoping it gets a wide distribution.

ACOSTA: All right, former Senator Doug Jones of Alabama, thank you very much for your time and I really appreciate it.

JONES: Thank you, Jim. It is good to be with you.

ACOSTA: All right, good to be with you.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ACOSTA: Today CNN witnessed and filmed Israeli soldiers with Palestinian detainees in southern Israel near the Gaza border. The men were barefoot and had been blindfolded.

Our Jeremy Diamond has more on what he saw. And here's his report.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, we were in southern Israel on Saturday morning near the border with Gaza when we spotted more than two dozen men sitting or kneeling on the cold wet ground, Israeli soldiers standing guard near them.

Now we now know that those men were Palestinians who were arrested by the Israeli military inside of Gaza and brought to Israel for questioning.

Now, these men were blindfolded. They were barefoot and if you look in this video, you can see their hands are tied behind their backs and all they are wearing are these disposable white coveralls.

[18:30:19]

Now it's important to keep in mind that it was about 50 degrees Fahrenheit, 10 degrees Celsius and quite rainy when we filmed this video. And the men in this video seem to be physically exhausted. You can see them kind of swaying around, their heads bobbing as they seem to be falling asleep. One man was actually lying on the ground before an Israeli soldier came to rouse him and prop him up.

Now the Israeli military for its part said, "The individuals shown on camera are suspected of terrorist activity and were arrested in Gaza and transferred to Israel for further interrogation. Relevant suspects are taken for further questioning within Israel. Individuals who are found not to be taking part in terrorist activities are released back into Gaza as soon as possible." Now, the Israeli military also addressed the condition in which we found these Palestinian detainees. They said that they were wearing these white coveralls because they had been stripped and searched to ensure that neither they nor their clothing had any explosive devices or weapons on them and they said that they were about to be placed on a heated bus and taken to a detention facility where they would be provided with sexual clothing.

Now we weren't able to verify exactly how long these men were sitting outside in the cold because an Israeli soldier came to us and directed us once he saw we were filming to leave the premises.

Now as it relates to this claim by Israel that these men are suspected of terrorist activity, it's important to note that while this is the first time that we have actually been able to directly document the detention of these Palestinian men from Gaza, there has been a lot of footage circulating from Gaza of Palestinian men being detained and in many cases those men actually turn out to be civilians. They are spotted by their relatives or their friends as civilians.

And in December we actually spoke with 10 Palestinian men and boys who had been detained by the Israeli military, held for five days and ultimately released without charge. Now these men and boys, all of them had swollen wrists, some of them bruises on their wrists from having their hands tied behind their backs for five days.

Now, the Israeli military, for its part, maintains that it treats all of these detainees in accordance with international law.

Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Tel Aviv.

ACOSTA: Thank you, Jeremy for that.

Meanwhile, the head of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency is urging multiple countries to reconsider after they announced funding to the agency would be temporarily suspended.

CNN International Diplomatic Editor, Nic Robertson, is with us now live from Tel Aviv with more.

Nic, what's all this about?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, Jim, it's really developed into a worsening situation through the day. Part of the statement that UNRWA has released has said that they may be forced to end their funding for the life-saving aid that they provide in Gaza. They say they support more than two million people there that they are the principal distributors of humanitarian aid and they provide shelter for many - of the hundreds of thousands of displaced people at the moment in Gaza.

This was precipitated by the IDF presenting UNRWA with information that alleged some of their staff members have been involved in the brutal October 7th attacks. Now, UNRWA moved very swiftly. They fired those staff believed to be involved. They - the UN is organizing a thorough investigation, an independent and complete investigation of the situation.

However, it's escalated today, the United States, along with the U.K., along with Germany, Australia, Canada, Italy, Finland, nine nations altogether have said they're suspending their funding from UNRWA. So this is critical to the future of UNRWA. The Israeli defense forces said that their intelligence directorate has investigated and found that there's evidence that Hamas facilities - terrorist facilities have been operating out of UNRWA locations.

Again, this is very damning. They haven't presented evidence for it. But it's leading the foreign minister here to say, there must be a thorough investigation. The head of UNRWA must or the leadership in UNRWA must be replaced and is going to call for international support to end the role of UNRWA in Gaza. That is a situation that I think few Palestinians in Gaza could imagine what it would look like. They depend so heavily on UNRWA and that's why the escalation of this is potentially very damaging.

ACOSTA: Absolutely. All right, Nic Robertson, fascinating. Thank you very much for that report. We appreciate it. We'll be right back.

[18:35:02]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:39:17]

ACOSTA: All right. Right now Nikki Haley is speaking at a campaign event in South Carolina, the lone Republican challenger to Donald Trump has been ramping up her attacks against the former president. She is not shying away from attacking Trump over his legal woes. On Friday she posted this after a jury said Trump should pay more than $83 million in damages to the columnist E. Jean Carroll saying, "We're not talking about fixing the border. We're not talking about tackling inflation. America can do better."

Joining me now to discuss all of this is from a Republican congressman of Illinois director of Mission: Democracy and host of the white flag podcast, Joe Walsh, and Democratic strategist former senior advisor to the Bernie Sanders presidential campaign, Chuck Rocha.

[18:40:00]

Joe, I should note at this rally earlier today for Trump, he did not directly mention E. Jean Carroll. Apparently the $83.3 million, they appear to be working.

JOE WALSH, (R) FORMER CONGRESSMAN OF ILLINOIS: Maybe that's his over under, Jim. Maybe 83 million actually means something. But look, here's the deal and you mentioned Nikki Haley, she's not really attacking him. She talked about it's a bad thing that we're talking about 83 million in damages. Damages for what? Donald Trump is a rapist. Nikki Haley will not say that she will not go there.

And Jim, it's the dilemma she's in, this nomination is Trump's. There's no way Trump's going to lose. Is Nikki Haley going to go scorched earth on him for the next 30 days until South Carolina. If she does that she's done as a Republican, so I don't think she will. I still think she gets out before South Carolina.

ACOSTA: And we just have to - just to be careful with the language, we just have to say that the jury found him liable of sexual abuse. I'm not uh calling you out or anything, I just want to make sure we have ...

WALSH: No ...

ACOSTA: ... the facts there ...

WALSH: ... I hear you.

ACOSTA: ... as they stand.

And Chuck, I mean what do you think of that? I mean, every time you know Trump was talking about E. Jean Carroll, it was almost like the Powerball total was going up at the bottom of the screen.

CHUCK ROCHA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Right.

ACOSTA: And for Trump today to not mention her when he had the chance, he could have done it, decided not to do it.

ROCHA: I know a political consultant, a buddy of mine once said that he can be bought, but if you got to ask the price you can't afford it.

ACOSTA: Yes.

ROCHA: So I think this is what we finally found. Is this the price? I'm not really sure if this is the price like I've never seen anything that can make him be quiet. And I think that if he was today because of the money. I don't know if he will be tomorrow. We've just seen him once again and again, and again, there's no seems to be any guardrails for him, so I believe it today but no telling for tomorrow.

ACOSTA: Yes. And Joe, I mean, not to jump to another subject, I did want to ask you because you served in Congress, you ran for president at one point. What do you think of the RNC chair, Ronna McDaniel, calling on Nikki Haley to drop out of the race, coalesce behind Donald Trump?

I mean she did lose to Trump by 11 points in New Hampshire but if you look at the delegate total I mean they're not that far apart. There are a lot of races ahead of us and anything can happen. What did you think of that?

WALSH: Jim, it's the kind of thing a cult does and my former political party is a personality cult and Trump's the cult leader. Look, I primaried Trump four years ago and I'm a relative nobody. And RNC even back then still canceled 22 primaries and caucuses.

They will do anything and everything to try to stop Nikki Haley. The talk this last week, Jim, that that the RNC may consider anointing Trump as the presumptive nominee, that came from Trump. Your own colleague, Kaitlan Collins, reported that that was Trump's idea. Of course, it was. Let the voters decide.

ACOSTA: And Chuck, I did want to ask you about uh some of Trump's remarks earlier today. He was essentially saying that he doesn't want to see a border deal come out of the senate because he wants to be able to run on this issue in the fall and he said.

If anybody wants to blame anybody, blame me.

What did you think - I mean what did you make of all of that? I mean, you're -- you spent a lot of time down in Texas. I mean a lot of Republicans have been saying it's an invasion, there are all of these migrants coming across the border, the border is open, it's a crisis. So now you're just going to leave this problem festering down at the border until January of next year and maybe you might have something then is that --

ROCHA: I always talk about Republicans really don't want to fix this problem like they talk about the border, they want to scare everybody to death. They think that Mexicans like me are coming into this country to harm us when my family came here just for a dream, for a better life and here I am many generations later get to be on TV and do all the great things in the world.

But if you think about it and this is what we say all the time in the Latino community is that we just want a shot and what he said is let's use it for some political ploy, let's use it to make sure we can get votes. We go and scare people.

People should be elected to fix problems our border is broken, the system is broken. Let's come together, Democrats and Republicans, and fix the problem. And he's saying, no, no, no why would we want to fix something that we can use to scare people, it's ridiculous.

ACOSTA: Joe, what do you think?

WALSH: Well, I agree with everything just said there. And remember, Trump controls my former colleagues in the House. Mike Johnson isn't the speaker of the House, Donald Trump is, so - and we heard that from Johnson today like no deal at all.

Look, I think Biden is responsible chiefly for the crisis right now. It is a crisis. Chuck's right, Republicans won't do a thing to help resolve this crisis. If I'm Joe Biden, Jim, I do as much as I can on my own. Joe Biden should be executive action lead on this issue and do what he can do on the border.

[18:45:00]

I think that's the right thing to do and I think it would strengthen him politically.

ACOSTA: But Chuck, is there something to be said for - if the President doesn't take executive action? I mean he is saying that if they pass this bill, he will use that authority to shut things down immediately on day one. Does he need to maybe have a carrot and a stick approach here to try to get this done? ROCHA: I think so. And I think that the American people want to see some action. I just think that they're fed up. And so I think his statement today, you very rarely see a Democrat come out and say, I'm going to shut the border down.

ACOSTA: Right.

ROCHA: Like he's saying, look, there's a problem. But as Democrats were saying, let's have more judges. Let's make sure that the system is working. Let's make sure we're not putting mothers and babies in cages. There's ways to do this in a humane way. And if you don't qualify to get in, you got to go back.

ACOSTA: Well, Beto O'Rourke was saying earlier on this program, that he would like to see DACA added to this agreement and it's not in there. And I mean, talk about a concession, that is a - that is something that Democrats have been talking about since Barack Obama started DACA when he was in office.

ROCHA: I saw him say that earlier.

ACOSTA: Yes.

ROCHA: And it's really, really smart. And when you ask the American people, they support DACA and they support what we're doing there.

ACOSTA: Yes. All right. Chuck and Joe, thanks, guys. Really appreciate it.

ROCHA: Thank you.

WALSH: Thanks. Thanks, Jim.

ACOSTA: All right. Nikki Haley may be going all in on South Carolina, but what is her path to the nomination? What does it look like? We're running the numbers next.

NIKKI HALEY, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: That's less than 20 percent (inaudible) ...

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[18:50:39]

ACOSTA: The candidates are out in full force today. Former president, Donald Trump, just wrapped up his rally in Nevada. Nikki Haley is speaking right now in her home state of South Carolina. And less than a hundred miles away in Columbia, President Biden is set to speak later at a Democratic Party dinner.

And CNN Senior Data Reporter, Harry Enten, joins us now to run the numbers.

Harry, after Trump won in New Hampshire, what does it look like in South Carolina? A lot of, I guess, there are a lot of expectations there that Trump will probably beat Nikki Haley in South Carolina, but maybe she's got a chance. What do you think?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: I think those expectations, if he loses in South Carolina, this is a very different Republican race than we thought it was. Because if you look at the polling right now in South Carolina, what do you see? You see that Donald Trump is leading Nikki Haley ...

ACOSTA: Wow.

ENTEN: ... by 31 points. Now, I guess the good news for Nikki Haley is she's trailing by a smaller margin than she's trailing nationally, where Donald Trump leads by 55 points. But Jim, on Tuesday, Nikki Haley lost to New Hampshire by 11 points.

I've looked at the map. I've looked at all the polling.

ACOSTA: Yes.

ENTEN: New Hampshire might have been the best state for her. I don't think that you could hold the primary in a single state right now and not find, at least on the Republican side, that Donald Trump would be ahead. Maybe you might make the argument that if the 1,500 or whatever number of Republicans there are in the District of Columbia came out and voted, maybe Trump might lose there.

But the fact is ...

ACOSTA: Right.

ENTEN: ... if you look at actual states, I don't think there is a single state in the union where Donald Trump is trailing Nikki Haley and ahead of South Carolina, something drastically, drastically needs to change. Despite the fact that of course Nikki Haley is from South Carolina.

Of course, remember, back in 2016, Donald Trump won in the state of Florida and knocked Marco Rubio out and won by a significant margin, so it wouldn't exactly be shocking if Donald Trump won in another candidate's home state.

ACOSTA: Yes. I mean, you can't win the nomination by taking D.C. and U.S. territories, that is for sure.

ENTEN: No. Guam is not enough.

ACOSTA: No, it's not. Wonderful place, but not enough.

And Harry, some Republicans wanted to declare Trump the presumptive GOP nominee this past week. There was this whole kerfuffle over the RNC potentially doing just that. How unusual would it be to do that this early? I suspect highly unusual.

ENTEN: Highly unusual. I love the leading questions, Jim. That's what we do.

ACOSTA: Yes, you're welcome. ENTEN: You put them on the tee. I take a swing. I hit them out of the ballpark. Well ...

ACOSTA: I'm trying to make it easy.

ENTEN: ... there you go.

Look, I mean, I love polls. We obviously just spoke about polls, but people vote. Polls don't vote. The idea that you would crown a presumptive nominee in January is simply put unheard of. If you look over the last few cycles, what do you see? You saw presumptive nominees in March - on March 4th, April 25th in 2012 and May 3rd in 2016 when obviously Trump became the presumptive nominee.

But that March 4th back in 2008 when John McCain became the presumptive nominee, that is the earliest on record in the modern primary era. And, of course, remember, Jim, remember, we already had had Super Tuesday by that point. That had occurred in early February.

ACOSTA: Yes.

ENTEN: McCain actually had the amount of delegates needed to win the nomination. The idea that we would have a presumptive nominee in late January when only two states have voted - Donald Trump likes to say that the process is rigged against him.

The idea that they would potentially make him the presumptive nominee in late January would argue the exact opposite of that, that the process is rigged for him and I think that's part of the reason why Donald Trump may have liked that effort at the very beginning, but then was like, no, no, no.

ACOSTA: Yes.

ENTEN: I don't want that. The press - the backlash was just so tremendous.

ACOSTA: Yes. No, it would have been rigged if it had been done this early. No question about it.

And Harry, if we're heading into a general election matchup between Trump and Biden, what's the latest on that?

ENTEN: Yes. Sometimes I like poll questions that really tell us about how people feel about what potential becoming, the idea that we would have the longest general election in American history, because obviously, if Trump, let's say, wins in South Carolina and Nikki Haley dropped out, it would still be the longest general election in American history.

Look at this, 50 percent of Americans use the word or the adjective dreading. They're dreading the verb. They're dreading this potential matchup. Sixty one percent of independents are dreading this potential matchup. Even I am like, you know what, sometimes rematches or repeats, the second time around the sequel can't be as good as the first time around and apparently a lot of Americans and a lot of Independents agree on that.

[18:55:06]

It would be a very long eight, nine, 10 months, however long the general election cycle would end up being.

ACOSTA: And Harry, I know you are not doing well this week after your Buffalo Bills - I mean, I hate to say it. This is just - just keeps happening. Our football teams have gone to the other side and they haven't returned. They're on the dark side of the moon. How long are these streaks and are they ever going to end?

ENTEN: They went - my Buffalo Bills went to the other side of the football rainbow last Sunday. It was devastating to me. I did - I was up in Orchard Park for it, up in Buffalo for it. It's a sad state of affairs. They've never won a Super Bowl.

But I will tell you this, Jim, I will tell you this, win, lose or draw, I'm going to continue to root for the Buffalo Bills. I don't care how long it takes. I'm with them from good times to bad times and I'm looking forward to next year as I'm sure you're looking forward to next year on your Commanders. Maybe you could break your 32 year non- Super Bowl winning streak.

ACOSTA: No, as we say in D.C., there's always next season.

All right. Harry Enten, we'll have to rely on the old expression, misery loves company for now. Harry, thanks so much. Appreciate it. Be sure to check out Harry's podcast ...

ENTEN: Thank you.

ACOSTA: ... Margins of Error, good to see you. You can find it on your favorite podcast app. We'll be right back.

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