Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

3 U.S. Troops Killed, More Than 30 Injured In Drone Attack In Jordan; WH Dispatches CIA Chief For Crucial Hostage Talks In Europe; Trump, Biden Look Ahead To General Election In November; George Carlin's Estate Files Lawsuit Over Standup Special. Aired 2-3p ET

Aired January 28, 2024 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:00:44]

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me this Sunday. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

And we begin with this breaking news.

Three U.S. troops were killed and at least two dozen more injured in a drone attack on a small U.S. outpost in Jordan near the border with Syria and Iraq. U.S. officials say the drone landed near the living quarters at the base.

This is the first time U.S. troops have been killed by enemy fire in the Middle East since war erupted in Gaza October 7th. It also marks a significant escalation of an already precarious situation in the region.

President Biden reacting a short time ago vowing the U.S. will hold those responsible to account.

We've got full coverage of this breaking story. Natasha Bertrand is in Washington, Kevin Liptak is at the White House and Ben Wedeman in Beirut.

Natasha, you first, what are we learning about the attack?

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Well Fredricka, this was an extremely significant attack and it was carried out by an Iran- backed group, according to President Biden using a drone, using a one- way attack drone. And it hit near the living facilities, the quarters at this base in northeast Jordan right on the border of Syria there and it killed three U.S. Army soldiers, we're told and as many as 30 other U.S. service members were wounded in this attack.

And we are told that that number of wounded is likely to continue to rise as service members seek treatment for symptoms consistent with traumatic brain injuries.

Now three U.S. service members were actually wounded critically enough to be medically evacuated out of the country. So we have to, you know, obviously wait and see what their condition is. But at this point, you know, the U.S. is trying to determine, of

course, how it is going to respond. The U.S. has seen dozens of these kinds of attack by Iran-backed groups on U.S. and coalition bases in Iraq and Syria since October 17th when these attacks really began in earnest in response, according to these groups, to the war in Gaza being carried out by Israel.

But previously, these rocket and drone attacks have not killed any U.S. service members. They have resulted in usually minor injuries, the most severe of which have been traumatic brain injuries.

So the fact that three U.S. Army soldiers were actually killed in this attack marks a very significant escalation and one that Republican lawmakers are already calling on the Biden administration to respond very, very harshly to.

WHITFIELD: And then Natasha, what are the options in terms of how the U.S. would respond?

BERTRAND: Well, in the past the U.S. Has responded to these attacks by these Iran-backed groups on these coalition bases with kind of ad hoc strikes in Iraq and Syria targeting particular Iranian-backed infrastructure including weapons depots. They have also killed a number of Iran-backed militants in Iraq and Syria in retaliation for these strikes on U.S. bases.

But clearly, the response here is likely to be if there is one harsher than what we've seen in the past simply because this is the first time that U.S. service members' lives have actually been taken in these kind of attacks, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All righ.t Natasha, thanks so much.

Let's go to Kevin Liptak at the White House. President Biden is reacting to the attack while he's been traveling. What is he saying?

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes. President Biden says that this attack is despicable and wholly unjust. The president releasing a statement shortly after these deaths were confirmed saying that today America's heart is heavy.

He goes on to say "While we are still gathering the facts of this attack we know, we know it was carried out by radical Iran-backed militant groups operating in Syria and Iraq."

And Fredricka, I'll tell you a U.S. official says they are still working to determine exactly which militia group was behind this particular attack. President Biden in his statement goes on to say "The three American service members were patriots in the highest sense and their ultimate sacrifice will never be forgotten by our nation.

Together we will keep the sacred obligation we bear to their families. We will strive to be worthy of their honor and valor. We will carry on their commitment to fight terrorism." And very importantly, the president says, "And have no doubt we will hold all those responsible to account at a time and in a manner of our choosing." LIPTAK: And the question, of course, now is how President Biden will respond and there will be pressure on him to escalate in some ways the response of the United States to these attacks by Iran-backed militants to U.S. troops in Iraq and Syria. This, of course, is the most serious example of that.

[14:05:00]

President Biden has been trying, at the same time he is trying to deter these attacks, to prevent a wider conflict in the region, to prevent this crisis from spiraling out of control. And now he will face a decision on a response that does just that.

President Biden was briefed this morning while he was in North Carolina by members of his national security team including the Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin. We can expect him to receive updates throughout this afternoon, as well.

But certainly this is a significant moment for the president as he bears this question of what happens next in a conflict he very badly doesn't want to see spiraling out of control, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right. Kevin, thank you so much.

Let's go to Ben Wedeman in Beirut now. So what does this add to an already very tense situation there in that region?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well even before this attack on U.S. forces in northeast Jordan, the United States was already slowly getting more deeply involved in sort of the ripples of the war in Gaza which is now 114 days old.

Now since the 17th of October last year there have been, with the exception of this attack today, 150 attacks by it's believed Iranian- backed radical militias in Syria and Iraq on U.S. forces.

Now the United States has struck back many times on them, but certainly given the fact that this time you have U.S. fatalities, obviously, the U.S. response is going to be much stronger.

At the same time, the United States has in the past sort of I think 15, 16 days launched almost nine strikes on targets in Yemen, as well.

So the U.S. is basically juggling a variety of flash points -- Yemen, Iraq, Syria and here Lebanon, of course, on the border between Israel and Lebanon.

There have been daily back and forth strikes between the Israelis and Hezbollah. The United States has yet to get involved in that, but it certainly is a very dangerous moment in the Middle East.

And keep in mind, the U.S. has troops sprawled across the Middle East. There are several thousand in Jordan. There are 900 in northeast Syria. There are 2,500 U.S. troops in Iraq. And ostensibly they're all there as part of the war against ISIS, but it's transformed into a whole different dynamic where it's the U.S. facing off against these Iranian-backed groups -- the Houthis and the groups in Syria and Iraq.

And it's important to keep in mind from the perspective of this part of the world, the United States is seen as essentially a partner in Israel's war in Gaza. The United States provides diplomatic cover, financial backing and certainly since the 7th of October has airlifted tens of thousands of tons of weaponry and ammunition to Israel and therefore for all of these groups the United States is seen as an active partner in this war and many people in this part of the region are actually applauding these actions as one way to strike back to respond to the war in Gaza.

So the United States is in a dilemma as to what it can do. If it strikes back too hard it could draw the Iranians into a direct war with the United States and that would have catastrophic consequences for the region and probably beyond.

WHITFIELD: Right.

WEDEMAN: Fredricka?

WHITFIELD: That is one of the biggest fears.

All right. Ben Wedeman, thank you so much, and Natasha Bertrand and Kevin Liptak. I'll check back with all of you later on. Thank you so much.

And more on our breaking news in a moment. But first this deadly attack comes just as the CIA director is taking part in a series of high-stakes meetings to try to lay the groundwork for another hostage deal. Live to Tel Aviv right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:13:31]

WHITFIELD: There's a new push today to bring Israeli hostages home after nearly four months held captive by Hamas. The White House has sent CIA director Bill Burns to Europe to meet with key Middle East officials this weekend with hopes of putting together some sort of framework deal. But there are still major sticking points between Israel and Hamas.

CNN's Kevin Liptak is at the White House and Jeremy Diamond is in Tel Aviv.

Kevin, let's begin with you. What is the White House saying about any possible deal?

LIPTAK: Well, American officials are hopeful that this latest push could eventually result in a deal to release all of the hostages that are remaining in Gaza. And when you look at this flurry diplomacy that is under way, you do get the sense that this is quite an important juncture in these talks to secure the release of those hostages.

Bill Burns, the CIA director, has been President Biden's point person in some ways in talking about the hostage release. And he is in Paris today discussing this issue with his intelligence counterparts from Egypt and Israel as well as the prime minister of Qatar.

And remember Qatar and Egypt have acted as something of a broker between Israel and Hamas on this hostage issue. On Friday, President Biden also spoke with the Egyptian President Abdel Fatah al Sisi as well as well as the emir of Qatar.

LIPTAK: And we also saw Brett McGirk, the top Middle East expert in the region trying to get these talks together. So when you add all of that up you do see this new, intensive push to come up with some kind of agreement and we are getting a sense of the contours of some of what this might look like.

[14:15:00]

We are told that a phased release of hostages is on the table starting with civilians going on to some with the IDF soldiers that are in captivity and ending with some of the bodies of the hostages that died while they were in captivity. And the release of those hostages would come with it a prolonged cessation of hostilities on the ground in Gaza.

But the real question, and I think the real sticking point is what happens after all of that ends? Hamas has been adamant that this process would result in a permanent ceasefire. Israel has been very firm that it will not agree to that, that it still needs to keep going after Hamas.

And U.S. officials have been very careful to set expectations around all of this. We heard from John Kirby, the National Security Council spokesman at the White House saying that there were no imminent developments in the offing in all of this.

But certainly it is an important moment and if an agreement like this would be reached it would certainly change the trajectory of this conflict at least in the medium term and so I think President Biden is very hopeful that this could result in something soon.

WHITFIELD: All right, Kevin.

And Jeremy, is the Israeli government saying anything during this early stage of these talks?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the prime minister's office has released A statement talking about this latest what the meeting between these top intelligence chiefs as well as the prime minister of Qatar. And they are calling these meetings, quote, "constructive up until now." But they are noting that there are still significant gaps between the sides as it relates to actually reaching a deal for the release of hostages that would lead to a pause in the fighting, the humanitarian aid and the release of Palestinian prisoners as well as part of this deal.

And as Kevin was just noting there's no question that there is still a lot to be resolved between these sides. But it's obviously a good sign that we are hearing from various corners and various parties involved in these meetings that these talks were productive and constructive. The Israeli prime minister, it's important to note, is under enormous

pressure in Israel at this moment. Last night I was at one of these protests that was calling for elections in this country, calling for the Israeli prime minister to step down effectively.

And we saw thousands of people at that protest, at the same time there were also protesters at what's become known as Hostage Square here, calling for a deal for the release of hostages. And we've heard even internally within the Israeli government that there were increasingly divisions over to what extent hostage negotiations reaching a deal is being prioritized over the other objective of this war which is to defeat Hamas, something that the Israeli prime minister has, of course, been very keen on.

So that must certainly be factoring into these meetings, into the Israeli prime minister's decision making. But ultimately it will come down to whether or not Israel and Hamas can get over what has been the number one sticking point in these talks which is whether or not the release of these hostages is going to ultimately lead to the end of this war altogether or simply a pause in the fighting, an extended pause in the fighting.

WHITFIELD: All right. Jeremy Diamond, Kevin Liptak, thanks to both of you. We'll check back with you.

And when we come back, more on the breaking news. Three U.S. troops have been killed in a drone attack in Jordan, the first American troops killed in the Middle East by enemy fire since the start of the Gaza war, and many more wounded.

The very latest, straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:22:53]

WHITFIELD: Getting back to our top story, three U.S. troop were killed and at least two dozen more were injured in a drone attack on a small U.S. outpost in Jordan near the border with Syria and Iraq. U.S. Officials say the drone landed near the living quarters at the base.

President Biden has vowed to hold those responsible for the attack to account. Today Republican Senator Lindsey Graham attacked President Biden saying his policy of deterrence has failed and called on the U.S. to strike targets inside Iran.

With us now is General Wesley Clark, he is a former NATO supreme allied commander. Good to see you, General.

So the drone struck near the living quarters on the base. Does that tell you that they were aiming for maximum casualties?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK, FORMER NATO SUPREME ALLIED COMMANDER: It might suggest that, and we don't know all the facts surrounding this yet and we don't know the technology. There's a lot behind the scenes on this, Fredricka. We just don't know. But regardless it was purely a strike demonstrated, aiming to

demonstrate America's powerlessness, to make us look weak, to show that we're incapable of defending ourselves or pursuing our objectives in the region effectively.

WHITFIELD: And about that technology, all we know is that it was a drone attack, but does a drone in this kind of attack, does it carry a missile, some other type of projectile? Something that is, you know, controllable, you can aim, or does it drop a bomb?

CLARK: In this case it may have had a large warhead. It may have been a suicide drone for all we know. There are different ways to do this, but whatever it was, this is the Middle East. The skies are generally fair. Aerial photography, even commercial satellite photography would show the layout of the base. So it's not hard for someone doing the targeting to find out where to strike.

WHITFIELD: Ok. So do you think the U.S. Air defenses were -- would they be able to take down a drone -- again we don't know what kind of drone this is -- but would they be able to take down a drone before it struck?

[14:25:00]

CLARK: You would think that they would. But again, we don't know exactly where the air defenses are. We know have air defenses in Jordan, protecting Jordan. We don't know whether they were on the alert, whether they were focused on this particular (INAUDIBLE) approach. We don't know if this was a stealthy drone which Iran has been attempting to develop based on copies of a U.S. drone that crashed or landed in Iran several years ago.

So there's a lot we don't know about this technically and militarily. But as President Biden said action has to be taken.

WHITFIELD: And so, of course, the U.S. says it is still trying to identify even the militia that might be responsible for the attack, let alone the type of apparatus that was used. So what is being done in order to identify that group?

CLARK: Well, we obviously are listening. We've got all of our signal assets there. We've got overhead imagery and we can roll the imagery back. We can find the launch point probably of the drone. So we can find a lot.

But it's a larger issue, Fredricka, because it's not just this militia group. We've been attacked more than a hundred times across the Middle East in recent months and we know it's coming from Iran. We know that these militias are supplied by Iran, they're organized and trained by Iran. They have Iranian technicians in many cases and helping them use the equipment.

So really, the question for the administration and for the U.S. military is are we going to go with the source or are we going to play tit for tat? And in this case, once you have American soldiers, servicemen killed in this, it's an entirely different situation. And so I think at the Pentagon and in the National Security Council

staff certainly the president must be thinking this is a sea change in what's going on there. Is this the time to try to stop the retaliation, the tit for tat and instead achieve escalation dominance like going after Iran, after the source that's causing these actions.

I can tell you the leaders in the Middle East look at the United States response thus far and they say it's inadequate. They're looking to see strength by the United States and this is the opportunity for the United States to show strength and that's what they're looking for.

WHITFIELD: As you mentioned, there have been about 150 attacks against the U.S. and coalition forces in that region, when you mention there have been a host of them.

And now you've got U.S. Senator Lindsey Graham today suggesting the U.S. carry out strikes against strategic targets inside Iran. Is that the kind of strength that you're talking about that people in the region would like to see, or what's your reaction to that idea?

CLARK: I think, of course, Republicans have been criticizing the president's strategy all along and the White House has been careful to say no, we don't want to escalate. We're trying to just deter future attacks.

But with this kind of a strike, I think it does raise it a notch. And so you have to take seriously the problem of whether the deterrence is working. If it's not, you need to go up the escalation ladder and the way to go up the escalation ladder is to not strike just back at the militia that launched the drone, but to go to the source of the trouble in Iran.

Now what you would target in Iran, that would be another issue, but this is a time to try to cap off the tit for tat. Get it stopped, convince the Iranians they can't afford to play this game anymore. They didn't --

(CROSSTALKING)

WHITFIELD: Doesn't that escalate into war? Wouldn't that be your fear that that would then escalate into war.

CLARK: If you do the strike the right way, the Iranians will understand they can't afford to escalate into a war. They're not capable of standing up for war and that's why -- and they can't stand up to the United States. That's why they're cleverly working through militias and trying to hurt us and sting us here and there and here and there.

So this is the time to go to the source, put it to the Iranians. This is a government that's very unpopular with its people. And when I hear people from Iran talking, what they tell me is they're looking for a signal from the United States.

So this government in Iran is on very shaky ground. It's in no position to have a war with the United States.

WHITFIELD: General Wesley Clark, we'll leave it there for now. Thank you so much for your expertise.

CLARK: Thank you, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right.

Straight ahead, "Thank you for being so good to me?" That's the message President Joe Biden delivered to a black Baptist church in South Carolina. The president is campaigning there ahead of the state's primary. We are live in Columbia next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:33:57]

WHITFIELD: All right. This weekend brought a preview of the possible 2024 presidential matchup with President Biden and former President Trump trading attacks on the campaign trail. While Trump held a rally in Las Vegas, Biden traveled to South Carolina ahead of that state's upcoming primary.

And there, the president previewed his general election message, drawing a sharp contrast with Trump on the economy, the pandemic and respect for veterans.

CNN White House reporter Priscilla Alvarez, joining us now from South Carolina.

Priscilla, what more can you tell us about President Biden's message to voters there?

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, Fredricka this is a key state where President Biden, it's one that he has credited in 2020, really turning the tide in that election. But this time around he faces an uphill battle with Black voters where there's been waning enthusiasm and where his approval has dropped slightly in the polls. And so, over the course of multiple stops, including at the church behind me this morning, the resounding message from President Biden is that he needs this state and this diverse electorate and they are the ones that launched him into the presidency in 2020.

[14:35:05]

He wants to see that happen again in 2024, starting next week with the first-in-the-nation, Democrats product primary. Now, this was a message that he also delivered last night at a dinner and what he did is really seek to draw a connection between what is administration has done, its record and how it has improved and benefited Black voters.

That includes, for example, driving down the cost of insulin, investing in HBCUs, among a host of other issues. But also, he talked about border security. He hasn't done this up until this point in the campaign trail, saying that he supports the emerging border deal that Senate negotiators have been working on. And if given the opportunity, he would shut down the border and do it quickly.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNTIED STATES: That bill into law today, I'd shut down the border right now and fix it quickly. A bipartisan bill would be good for American and help fix our broken immigration system.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALVAREZ: Now, the president also faced protesters during those remarks where people two protestors were calling for a ceasefire in Gaza. The president did not engage with them, but it was just yet another reality that he faces on the trail as there are divisions in his coalition over support for Israel. But look, Fred, at the end of the day, the bottom line here is that while the primary in South Carolina may not be competitive, it will test his standing among black voters, and that is a key constituency going into November.

WHITFIELD: Uh-huh. And, Priscilla, the president, is endorsing this border bill. We just heard him say up, but Trump is pressuring Republicans to oppose it. So how concerned is the White House about this?

ALVAREZ: Sources tell me that White House officials are not yet admitting defeat when it comes to this deal, what would President Biden's remarks on Saturday in a statement on Friday appear intended to do is fend off former President Donald Trump's attacks on immigration policy, essentially saying he is willing to take tougher stance and tougher measures to shut down the border something that the former president has previously talked about.

Now, again, it's unclear where this deal is going to land. We heard from a key Senate negotiator this morning that they are working on tax. They've reached a deal and it may come out this week. But all of this still remains unclear as you mentioned, Fred, the former president is trying to tank a compromise.

WHITFIELD: All right. Priscilla Alvarez, thanks so much in Columbia, South Carolina.

All right, a key negotiator on a possible border deal told CNN today that senators have reached a bipartisan agreement. Democratic Senator Chris Murphy says the text of the bill could go to the Senate floor in the coming days. He says passage depends on whether Republicans are willing to ignore Donald Trump's opposition and support the historic bill.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT): We do have a bipartisan deal. We're finishing the text right now. And the question is whether Republicans are going to listen to Donald Trump who wants to preserve chaos at the border because he thinks that it's a winning political issue for him or whether we are going to pass legislation which would be the biggest the bipartisan reform of our border and immigration laws in 40 years, and would give the president of the United States whether that president is a Republican or a Democrat new important power to be able to better manage the flow of people across the border.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right. With me now, to talk more about this is Mychael Schnell, a congressional reporter for "The Hill". I'm also joined by Daniel Lippman, a White House reporter for "Politico".

Good to see both of you.

DANIEL LIPPMAN, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, POLITICO: Thanks, Fred.

All right. Mychael, you first. You know, House Speaker Mike Johnson has already warned that a border deal is likely dead on arrival in the House. Do you get the sense that Senate Republicans are willing to defy Trump and possibly vote for this border bill anyway?

MYCHAEL SCHNELL, CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER, THE HILL: Hey, Fred, look, this is why these dynamics have been so fascinating to play out, because we've seen this bipartisan group of senators working on this border deal for months, right? They've started months ago last year, and they are finally coming up to a chance where they can bring this to the floor as you showed, lead Democratic negotiator, Chris Murphy, just said.

But as you mentioned, there real key questions to whether or not this could pass both chambers, starting with the House first, I don't think that were going to see this border bill even brought to the floor. Speaker Johnson on Friday wrote a letter to colleagues saying that if the rumors are true what this bill looks like, it would be dead in the House and he said, then on arrival in the House, he said that previously because if they he says that it wouldn't solve the issue.

Now, it's going to be a big question of can you get enough Republicans and Democrats in the Senate to get it over the finish line. Of course, you need at least 60 members there to break that filibuster. There are a large number of Republicans, including Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, who are very supportive of the idea of these border security negotiations obviously, the true answer will come once lawmakers are able to parse through the text. But I do think that there will be enough Republicans in the Senate to get this over the finish line.

[14:40:02]

The House, though, that's an entirely different story.

WHITFIELD: Uh-huh. Supportive, but Mitch McConnell did say, you know, we're in a quandary over all this.

So Donald Trump, he held a rally last night in Las Vegas. And while he hasn't seen the text of what is in the bill, he is making it clear that he wants Republicans to oppose it and deny Biden a political win. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT: As the leader of our party. There is zero chance I will support this horrible open borders betrayal of America. A lot of the senators are trying to say respectfully, they are blaming going to me. I said that's okay. Please blame it on me. Please, because they were getting ready to pass a very bad bill. And I'll tell you what, a bad bill is -- I'd rather have no bill than a bad bill.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Again, as far as we know, he hasn't seen the text.

So, Daniel, you know, is Trump risking backlash from voters who have said they want with urgency, you know, the border to be addressed.

LIPPMAN: Well, his voters are clearly ride-or-die and so, they are not going to read the text of the legislation and decide for themselves. What's interesting is that this is a pretty tough bill. They haven't released the text, but you don't often hear Democratic president saying we want to shut down the border. That sounds like what Trump said.

And so if this -- if Trump was president and Senate negotiators from both parties had come up with this bill. He probably would be signing it and saying it was a big victory. And that we need a compromise to deal with the situation of the border. And so, clearly, now it's election season. And what's also interesting is that Senator Lankford, the Republican from Oklahoma, he has said that because it is the election right now, that its less likely to pass because you have people not wanting to give Biden a win.

WHITFIELD: And he's been among those working really hard to try to craft something like this. Also, Daniel, you know, it's not just Biden and Republicans senators who are critical of Trumps opposition to a border deal, take a listen to Nikki Haley.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIKKI HALEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Republicans and Democrats need to get into a room. They don't need to leave until they figure this out because the American people are not safe at this point. And Donald Trump, the last thing he needs to do is tell them to wait to pass a border deal until the election. We can't wait one more day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: So what do you think, Daniel? You think words like that from Haley will help kind of close the gap on Trump with Republican voters?

LIPPMAN: Well, she doesn't have that many endorsements from congressional leaders or senators or congressmen think she has like one member of Congress from South Carolina. But I think that she is clearly trying to differentiate herself from Trump and say that he is playing politics and this -- she's recognizing that this is not how negotiations work in Washington. There is some give-and-take and you're never going to get everything you want. And even Trump had multiple compromises when he was in office.

And so, I think he would probably do the same if he was elected, he would be working with Democrats, but not right now.

WHITFIELD: And, Mychael, today, House Republicans, they released two articles of impeachment against Homeland Security Director Alejandro Mayorkas, accusing the cabinet secretary of high crimes and misdemeanors, a cabinet member has not been impeached since 1876.

So how do we see this playing out?

SCHNELL: Yeah. Well, Fred, this was a long time coming for House Republicans since when Republicans took control of the chamber, they had been saying that they wanted to impeach Mayorkas. Again, it gets back to the idea of Republicans have been doing a full-court press on this issue of the border. It's become a salient issue among voters in the 2024 cycle.

It's also been a weak spot for the president, why it's been such a key focus right now. So Republicans have said that, the buck stops with Mayorkas that he should be penalized for the situation at the southern border, the chairman of the homeland security committee, Mark Green, in the House, he had done a months-long investigation and study on Mayorkas' policies and practices. That's all now coming to terms with this impeachment push. Were going to see a markup of those articles this weekend and the expectation is there will be a vote on impeaching Mayorkas in the house.

Now, of course, if he's impeached in the House, they'll sell it to be a trial in the Senate. And there's a big question of whether or not human we have the votes to be removed. Likely not because, of course, the Senate is controlled by Democrats, but, you know, this issue of the border has been really interesting one, because it's so politically charged and there are a number of vulnerable Democrats in the Senate.

So I won't say it's a done deal that he will be acquitted, but it's very likely he'll be acquitted and not removed. But this again, just gets back to the idea of the borders becomes so polo politically charged and both parties are trying to Republicans particularly are trying to make a play on it politically to attract voters.

WHITFIELD: All right, there's longtime threats of impeachment for the secretary now coming to fruition.

[14:45:02]

All right. Mychael Schnell, Daniel Lippman, thank you so much.

LIPPMAN: Thank you, Fred.

SCHNELL: Thanks. WHITFIELD: All right. Coming up, a concern grows over the rise of

artificial intelligence just in the last week, we have seen fake explicit pictures of celebrities, fake presidential messages, and now the family of a comedy legend is suing to get an AI creation removed. We'll discuss what the daughter of the late George Carlin, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right. Last week saw artificial intelligence make headlines for all the wrong reasons -- a robocall featuring a fake message from President Biden, and explicit AI-created images of Taylor Swift spreading across social media.

[14:50:06]

And now, the family of a comedy legend is suing to get an AI creation removed. George Carlin's estate filed a new lawsuit this week, seeking to take down an hour long video posted on YouTube that emulates Carlin's voice and comedic style. The lawsuit says the AI used elements to create the video without their permission.

Just listen for yourself and keep in mind, this is not actually George Carlin

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AI VOICE: Yes, there's one line of work that is most threatened by AI, one job that is most likely to be completely erased because of artificial intelligence, stand-up comedy I know what all the stand-up comics across the globe are saying right now, I'm an artist and my art form is too creative to nuanced, too subtle to be replicated by a machine, no computer program can tell a part joke as good as me. Well, let's see.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: So we reached out to the creator of that, Dudsey, for response to the lawsuit and we have not yet heard back.

But joining us right now is George Carlin's daughter, Kelly Carlin.

Kelly, great to see you. I know this is very uncomfortable for you and the whole family. So when you first heard this video, what did you think?

KELLY CARLIN, DAUGHTER OF LATE COMEDIAN GEORGE CARLIN: I could not believe that they had the courage to do this. I would say. But I was -- I mean, shocked, first of all, of course.

And then that like, mama bear protection, energy came up in my body, like her, you know, wanting to protect my father's -- just his humanity and his life's work, and his individual personhood. So it's -- it's just been a real emotional roller coaster.

WHITFIELD: Yeah, I imagine, because I mean, every one of course wishes they could see or hear the voice of a loved one, especially a parent that passes away. But then it would seem like it would be very insulting and hurtful to come across somebody else's creation of them in this form or any other form. And I imagine, you know, in addition to all those feelings you expressed, I mean, was there some sadness and hurt that came along with it too?

CARLIN: Yeah. It's interesting. Frederica, because the first few days, it was anger and then about three or four days in, what actually happened was a real feeling of vulnerability and violation. And I've heard other people talk about this as like, you know, like rape. I mean, I know it's not rape. I wouldn't -- I wouldn't equivocate it that way, but there's a sense of like people coming into your boundaries in some way. And trying to occupy something that's very personal and real, like a relationship with a loved one.

And there's something about wanting to replicate another human life that is it's so strange, it's such a weird thing when its someone you've known in the real-world and love and have their DNA in you, it's this very ghoulish, weird feeling and I know one of the ways people describe AI is with this phrase, uncanny valley. There's just an emptiness in the space and it's -- it is, it's very uncanny.

WHITFIELD: Uh-huh. So then you and others representing the state decided we're suing, you know, this lawsuit was filed in California just this week alleging copyright infringement and violation to your father's right to publicity.

So what are you hoping to accomplish by suing the creators of this AI -- I mean, was there even a framework? You know, that you could follow and on how to do this?

CARLIN: Yeah. Well, we are on the spirit tip of this legally. I mean, this is what's going on. We're having the big conversation like you said and we have to have the conversation, unlike we did not have this conversation much when social media came into her life. And we all signed our rights away every time we sign up for an app, our rights are assigned a way.

And so, yes. I mean, part of it is, like you said, there's the rights of publicity. They used his name and his likeness. They generated some AI voice of his. So they're trying to replicate his voice and then of course they called the special George Carlin. I'm glad I'm dead. There's no -- you know, they don't say like, Dudsey presents or Dudsey's doing George Carlin. It's just promoted as George Carlin.

[14:55:01]

So our fear is that not only people get introduced to George Carlin through this and think it's him. But also that future people who've downloaded the video or cut it into pieces, or even future AI that wants to source George Carlin will use any of that and think its actually George Carlin. And so in some way that dilutes and watered down his intellectual property, his copyright value but really this is a human and humanity crisis. These are people who want to steal your personhood, put you in anywhere, use other people's name, likeness, reputation to lift their own. I mean, a lot of what's happened here is why did they pick George Carlin? I'm sure they loved my dad, they're comedians, most people do. But they've gotten a lot of attention because of this but they didn't do any of the work. They didn't do any of the work to be George Carlin and they aren't George Carlin.

WHITFIELD: Right? And I mean -- yeah, it's -- I mean, based on everything you just described. I mean, it's a -- it's a form of trickery. You know, people are being tricked. I mean, you and the family being tricked and yeah, it seems very, very awkward and very wrong.

CARLIN: And not only that, Fredricka, but they have told their audience for over a year that this is an AI bot that they have on the podcast with Chad and Will, and we found out that its the AI bot did not write the George Carlin material, that Chad wrote the George Carlin material. So they're kind of even defrauding their own audience.

And maybe their audience was in on a joke or something, but I came to this just taking their word that this AI bot that shows up on their podcasts and says, hey, I've -- I've digested thousands of hours of George Carlin and I've created a one-hour special so we're like, what?

WHITFIELD: Yeah, you and the family, the estate are not laughing.

Kelly Carlin, thank you so much for your time and explanation and keep us posted.

CARLIN: Thank you

WHITFIELD: We'll be right back

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)