Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsroom
Biden Says He Has Decided U.S. Response To Jordan Attack; U.N. Chief To Meet Donor Nations After Refugee Agency Accusations; Undercover Israeli Troops Dressed As Medical Staff Kill Three Militants In West Bank Hospital Raid; House Republicans Move Closer To Rare Move Of Impeaching DHS Secretary Mayorkas; Boris Nadezhdin To Officially Join Presidential Race. Aired 1-2a ET
Aired January 31, 2024 - 01:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[01:00:27]
JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR: Coming up here on CNN.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you made a decision how you'll respond to the attack?
JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Yes, but no word on when and where. And will it be enough to prevent further attacks on U.S. forces by Iran backed militants?
The legal fallout from a deadly raid by Israeli forces disguised as medics and civilians in a West bank hospital.
And why do leaders for life, the autocrats with an iron grip on power and 90 percent approval ratings, hold sham elections?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Live from Atlanta. This is CNN Newsroom with John Vause.
VAUSE: U.S. President Joe Biden told reporters Tuesday he has decided on how to respond to a deadly drone attack on American forces based in Jordan. But no word on when or where no word of targets inside Iran would be hit.
U.S. forces based in Iraq and Syria have been attacked at least 165 times by Iran backed militants since Israel's war with the mosque began in October.
But the weekend strike was the first to claim the lives of U.S. military personnel. Three soldiers were killed. It was also the first on us forces in Jordan. The strike hit a us outpost called Tower 22, not far from the border with Syria. U.S. officials say Iran backed militants were behind the attack, but Iran denies any involvement.
The White House says any military action would be aimed at degrading the militant's capability while also sending a message of deterrence. Here's what President Biden told CNN.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have you made a decision how you'll respond to the attack?
BIDEN: Yes. I don't think we need a wider war in the Middle East. That's not what I'm looking for.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: CNN's Oren Liebermann reporting from defending on now with all the developments.
(BEGIN VIDEOATAPE)
OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: The White House and the Defense Department have made it very clear there will be a U.S. response to the attack in Jordan on Sunday that killed three U.S. service members and wounded scores more. President Joe Biden said on Tuesday he had decided about the strike.
Now, of course, the question what will that strike look like? The White House and the Pentagon being careful not to telegraph exactly what they intend to do, but every expectation from the officials we've spoken with is that this will be more powerful than the U.S. strikes we've seen in Iraq and Syria to this point.
Now, that could mean more targets across more locations. Officials say this could also be multi-tiered and not occurring just one night.
The U.S. also has the option of going after the leadership of some of these Iranian backed militias in Iraq and Syria that they hold responsible for attacks on U.S. forces. But again, the administration has made it clear there will be a U.S. response, even if they're not exactly saying the timing or the exact form.
Now, the administration hasn't pointed to a specific group and said it holds that group responsible, but it has hinted that it sees the fingerprints of Kata'ib Hezbollah on the strike that killed American service members. Kata'ib Hezbollah is one of the strongest Iranian proxies in the region.
Meanwhile, that organization issued a statement on Tuesday, quite a shocking statement, saying that they had ordered their groups not to continue attacks on U.S. forces in the region in order not to embarrass the Iraqi government.
Asked about that statement, the Pentagon said actions speak louder than words and pointed to more than 160 attacks on U.S. forces in Iraq and Syria since the beginning of the Gaza war, including at least three after the attack that killed three us service members on Sunday. So again, the Pentagon making it clear there will be a us response
regardless of that Kata'ib Hezbollah statement. Meanwhile, the three U.S. service members who were killed in that attack are expected to have their remains flown back to the United States on Friday.
President Joe Biden and Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin expected to be at that dignified transfer of remains. Two of those killed, specialist Kennedy Sanders and specialist Brianna Moffat, have been posthumously promoted to sergeant. They will join Sergeant William Rivers on Friday at that dignified transfer of remains at Dover Air Force Base. Oren Liebermann, CNN at the Pentagon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: The U.N. secretary general has met with donor nations, including the U.S., which suspended funding for ANRWA, the biggest aid agency in Gaza, in the wake of Israeli allegations. More than a dozen UNRWA workers were directly involved in the hast attack on October 7.
The meeting was a chance for Antonio Guterres to stress UNRWA's critical work in Gaza as well as to listen to concerns from those donor nations. The U.S. is the biggest donor to UNRWA and the U.S. ambassador 30 the U.N. is demanding fundamental changes before that funding resumes.
[01:05:05]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LINDA THOMAS-GREENFIELD, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE U.N.: We need to look at the organization, how it operates in Gaza, how they manage their staff, and to ensure that people who commit criminal acts such as these twelve individuals are held accountable immediately so that and continue the essential work that it is doing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: The U.N. Humanitarian Coordination Forum has warned withdrawing funds from UNRWA is perilous and would result in the collapse of the humanitarian system in Gaza with far reaching humanitarian human rights consequences. The world cannot abandon the people of Gaza.
And in southern Gaza, the Palestinian Red Crescent says Israeli military vehicles have taken up positions in the grounds of a hospital in Khan Younis, where thousands of Palestinians have taken shelter.
According to the Red Crescent, one woman was killed and nine people injured by a gunfire from an Israeli tank before Israeli troops entered the Alamal compound, firing live ammunition and smoke grenades that comes after surrounding the medical facility for more than a week.
Hospital official says Israeli forces are ordering the evacuation or the building at gunpoint. CNN unable to verify those claims. And we've reached out to the IDF for comment. Israel defending a raid on a West bank hospital which killed three
Palestinians who were executed in their beds. While the military's chief of staff is saying they would not allow hospitals become, quote, a cover for terrorism. The IDF, though, coming under criticism because special forces were disguised as medical personnel and women in hijabs while carrying out the attack.
More now from CNN's Nic Robertson and a warning some of the images here are graphic.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR (voice-over): A man in a doctor's white lab coat and surgical mask, a woman dressed in black wearing a hijab and a third person carrying a wheelchair spearhead a brazen Israeli undercover forces operation in the West bank.
Their weapons all tagged so in a chaotic shootout with similarly clad terrorists, they'll know their enemy. They move as a carefully coordinated assault team as other operatives follow them in. A man in a brown coat and a white prayer hat directs another figure wearing blue scrubs as another team member in tan pants dips into a red backpack and dons a black hat. Meanwhile, another assault team enters, led by a man dressed in a woman's flowing black abaya.
He strides forward past another person dressed in black who forces a hospital worker to the floor, pulls his jacket off of him, pushes his head down and covers it with a jacket. It looks like coordinated chaos, but each outfit a disguise to get them inside the hospital.
More members arrive, 12 total. The last two apparently posing as a young couple toting a baby carrier, although judging by the way he puts it down, a heavier load than a baby. Likely backup ammo.
The second female operative, posing as the baby's mother, takes point on the corridor, aiming her weapon at anyone who might have discovered their complex ruse. In less than a minute, they're gone. Unclear if this is the beginning or the end of the operation.
This room they're likely objective, blood on the walls and on the bedding appearing to indicate killings took place here. A hold pillow suggests a gunshot to the head. The IDF say the raid was timely, targeting Mohammed Jalamneh, who, quote, planned to carry out a terror attack, and brothers Mohammed and Basel Ghazawi, who they claim were members of Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad.
That statement may not protect Israel from accusations of war crimes on a number of counts, including passing themselves off as medical personnel, something the IDF often accuses Hamas of doing in Gaza.
The hospital director appearing to confirm the three were shot together, but gives no reason why all three were sleeping in the hospital. Although Basil Ghazawi had been receiving treatment for a drone injury strike last year and was partially paralyzed. They killed the three youth in their room, Mohammed Jalamneh, Mohammed and Basil Ghazawi, while they were sleeping on their beds in the room, he said. They killed them with cold blood, with direct gunshots to the head.
Friends with blooded hands and family mourn around their bodies, now apparently moved to ward beds. Mohammed Jalamneh's father indicating he knew his son was on the run.
We prepare ourselves that the Israeli will raid our house, he said, because they raided it many times before to put pressure on Mohammed to turn himself in.
[01:10:04]
As their bodies taken for burial, gunmen escort the kortesh (ph). At least one of the slain men had an automatic weapon on his chest, traditional at funerals for fallen jihadists. Their executions, particularly amid accusations of war crimes likely to inflame escalating tensions. Nic Robertson, CNN, Tel Aviv, Israel.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: Joining us now is Steven Cooks, Senior Fellow for Middle Eastern Studies at the Council on Foreign Relations. Welcome back. Good to see you.
STEVEN COOKS, SENIOR FELLOW, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: Good to see you.
VAUSE: OK, so there are a lot of questions now about the legality of the raid by Israeli special forces, especially given the protected status of hospitals in war zones. Here's the chief spokesman for the IDF.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HERZI HALEVI, ISRAELI CHIEF OF THE GENERAL STAFF (through translator): We do not want to turn hospitals into battlefields with patients on the right and doctors and nurses on the left and terrorists in the middle. But we are even more determined not to allow hospitals to become a place that is a cover for terrorism and one that allows terrorists to stash weapons, to rest, to go out, to carry out an attack.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Among some of the issues here with Hamas militants there to plan terror attacks was the use of lethal force as a first response by the Israelis, a violation, also disguising themselves as civilians and medical personnel. This goes on and on and on.
But is there anything to be gained beyond point scoring in arguing over which side is responsible for more violations of international law? Because it seems both sides will do what they're going to do and whatever they are capable of doing.
COOKS: Well, that's clearly the case that we are now in a situation where the two sides are just engaged in point scoring over international law in an effort to capture global public opinion, something that the Israelis lost long ago.
There is something international law about hospitals losing their protected status if combatants are using it. And that's clearly what the Israelis are getting at here. But it doesn't look good, quite obviously. And the Israeli military spokesman's denials are, again, about point scoring rather than what the two sides are actually going to do, which is to use whatever means necessary to prevail on the battlefield.
VAUSE: Yes. And on the diplomatic side, though, CNN is also reporting that there could be a possible framework in place now for some kind of release with the hostages. Hamas in a statement said that it's open to discussing any serious and practical initiatives or ideas, provided that they lead to a comprehensive cessation of aggression and securing the shelter process for our people, the Palestinians in Gaza, as well as reconstruction, lifting the siege and achieving a serious prisoner exchange process, which would seem to be their opening position in any negotiations. Here's where the Israeli prime minister stands. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): I hear talk about all kinds of deals. I would like to make it clear we will not conclude this war without achieving all of its goals. We will not withdraw the IDF from the Gaza Strip, and we will not release thousands of terrorists. None of this will happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: But they've made a deal before when it comes to releasing hostages. That was back in November. Can you see some kind of second deal becoming a reality?
COOKS: Well, there has been lots of talk about a deal and the fact that the CIA director was involved in these negotiations, which suggest that the United States at least believes that there can be a deal. But as you point out, quite clearly, the sides are quite far apart.
What Hamas is essentially demanding is an end to the conflict. Netanyahu politically can't do that, given the fact that he and his cabinet and his war cabinet have promised the destruction of Hamas. And indeed, that is what the Israeli public is demanding.
Obviously, whatever deal will fall short of both of these positions. But I think the larger issue is how many hostages are alive, how many can be traded. And I think that's why Hamas was calling for a full cessation and end to this conflict. Because once they give up hostages, however many there are that remain, they lose their leverage.
VAUSE: And there's growing concerns for the safety of those hostages after the IDF confirmed it's pumping seawater into the Hamas tunnels underneath Gaza. In a statement, the IDF describes new capabilities to target Hamas infrastructure by channeling large volumes of water into the tunnels. And this comes as the Wall Street Journal reports, as much as 80 percent of Hamas's vast warren of tunnels under Gaza remains intact after weeks of Israeli efforts to destroy them, U.S. and Israeli officials told the Wall Street Journal.
Now, does this get to the point now that Israel needs to reassess its military objectives, actives here, and maybe that there needs to be some kind of negotiated settlement to this conflict with Hamas, because after all, almost every conflict ends with a negotiated settlement.
[01:15:09]
COOKS: Well, that's exactly the case. I think it is striking how much ordinance the Israelis have used and how limited their damage has been to the tunnels, although people who know something about these tunnels would tell you that it was going to take a lot more than airstrikes and artillery strikes in order to bring these tunnels to collapse in on. So a much broader operation would be required.
I think the Israelis are going to have to come around to declaring victory and going home. Already we're seeing Hamas reorganize itself in the northern Gaza Strip weeks after the Israelis have said that they had ceased to be a significant threat in the north.
So there's not only the question of how much damage or how little damage they've done to the tunnels, but the fact that Hamas remains a potent fighting force. The Israelis are going to have to find some way out, otherwise they'll be caught there for many years.
VAUSE: Yes, it's five months into this almost, and I guess the question is how much longer. And Steven, thanks for being with us. We appreciate your time.
COOKS: My pleasure.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN Breaking News.
VAUSE: Hello. Welcome to our viewers in the United States. I'm John Vause. It has just gone 1:15 on a Wednesday morning in Washington, DC, where Republican lawmakers are one step closer to impeaching the secretary of homeland security. Alejandro Mayorkas.
The Republican controlled Homeland Security Committee has voted to bring two articles of impeachment to a vote in the lower House, which means for the first time in nearly 150 years, a cabinet secretary could be charged with high crimes and misdemeanors by Congress.
Republican lawmakers accused Secretary of Mayorkas of failing to enforce U.S. immigration policies at the southern border. Two articles of impeachment allege the willful and systematic refusal to comply with the law and breaching public trust.
Republicans have offered little evidence of wrongdoing by Mayorkas and constitutional experts, (INAUDIBLE) Democrats have argued this is an abuse of the impeachment process. Let's get more on this. Raul Reyes is attorney, immigration analyst
and CNN opinion writer. He joins us now live from New York. Staying up late Raul, thank you so much.
So, the thing about what is happening right now on Capitol Hill, and they're all working back late, if this gets to an impeachment trial, the verdict. Right. Is a foregone conclusion.
RAUL REYES, CNN OPINION W RITER: Well, if this gets to an impeachment trial, in terms of the practical impact in the House, there's a good chance that Mayorkas could be impeached. But then once it goes to the Senate, which is controlled by Democrats, there is zero chance that he will be convicted.
And even if he were, even by some wild stretch of the imagination that Mayorkas were convicted and removed from office, you know what would happen? President Biden would simply appoint another person to carry out his immigration policies.
So that's the farce, the political theater of what we're seeing here, because all of this, it will have zero impact on our border crisis, the humanitarian crisis, and certainly the leadership crisis in Washington.
And the fact that we haven't done this as a country since nearly 150 years really says something about what a serious move the impeachment of a cabinet official is. I mean, it would be setting a very dangerous precedent, in my view, worth this to go through, because we could see in the future with politicians from both parties going ahead with attempted impeachments or impeachments based on similar grounds as here, which is basically policy differences, not actual high crimes and misdemeanors.
VAUSE: So what we're saying is that there actually isn't any real criminal wrongdoing here, at least no evidence of criminal wrongdoing, which certainly amounts to high crimes and misdemeanors. It does come down to policy. And that's why all these constitutional experts have said that essentially they're weaponizing the impeachment process.
But -- so, I guess the issue is, as you say, this will happen. And it doesn't actually address any of the problems which are currently taking place on the border --
REYES: Right.
VAUSE: -- which there are problems which do need to be fixed. And there is a deal in the works to fix those problems. But that deal isn't going right?
REYES: Right. Right. And the ironic thing here is that one of the terms we've heard House Republicans using frequently is a term that actually has no legal basis in this case. But they are accusing Alejandro Mayorkas of dereliction of duty and saying he has just completely abdicated his responsibility as DHS secretary.
At the same time that Mayorkas is actively engaged in trying to forge some type of Senate immigration deal, a deal which Republic, from Donald Trump to the House speaker, they have pledged that they will sink. So there's that.
[01:20:05]
But you know what I find ironic when you look at this big picture, some of the same Republicans who argued during former President Trump's two impeachment trials that impeachment was a very serious matter and that the legal bar for impeachment had to be extremely high are now, some of those same lawmakers are now endorsing a much lower, vaguer standard for impeachment for Secretary Mayorkas. So there's plenty of hypocrisy on that side of the aisle.
What is so unfortunate here is that it's just another sideshow, another distraction from suffering at the border from our dysfunctional system. And the Republicans are really exploiting this issue. They don't want a solution, as many observers have pointed out, because this resonates with their base.
It generates headlines, and it keeps the Biden administration sort of in a very reactive mode, very defensive on a super complicated issue. So we have all these things going on.
And to me, it amounts to a type of political, you know, you mentioned the legal experts who say there's basically no legitimate case here. Those include conservative legal experts, people like Alan Dershowitz and the scholar Jonathan Turley. Even they have come forward and been quite vocal about the fact that we haven't seen valid grounds for legitimate impeachment case. And yet here we are. Here we are, indeed.
VAUSE: I mean, hypocrisy among politicians. I'm shocked there's gambling going on there as well.
But let's talk about the timeline here, because the speaker of the House, Johnson, has said that he wants to bring this impeachment hearing, this vote as soon as possible. So what sort of timeline could this be?
REYES: Well, if they could get, say, a vote out of committee in the next few days, he has been pretty open about wanting to move this ahead as quickly as possible. And in my sense, is that could mean it could go to the House within a week or so.
And one reason, in my view, just driving this is because this is such a matter that's rooted in politics. As long as they have the attention of the country and the media here, they want to exploit this issue right now as primaries are coming, as we're seeing some polls for Joe Biden showing that he has -- a majority of Americans are not happy with his immigration policies.
So, Republicans want to keep this in the media, in the public eye, and make as much, I guess, political hay out of the issue while they can.
And meanwhile, as we've talked about here, the true potential deal on immigration that might actually turn into something significant that seems, with each passing day to sort of be slipping away. So we're just stuck in the same status quo. And that gives Republicans
and conservatives a contentious issue, a chaotic border and a sense that, false sense that we have open borders, that gives them something to run on and make the case that Joe Biden cannot handle immigration.
And remember where they do go after Alejandro Mayorkas for these supposed high crimes and misdemeanors. All Mayorkas is doing is executing President Biden's policies. That's his job. He's not making these policies. He's not accused of any type of extrajudicial activities. He's simply carrying out the policies as a cabinet member of the president who appointed him.
VAUSE: Which we're out of time now, but that's sort of just a chilling reminder to anybody who takes up a cabinet position that they could be next. Thank you for the analysis. Thank you for --
REYES: Thank you.
VAUSE: -- for the insight. Always Raul. Always good to see you. Just an update just very quickly, in case you're joining us right now, the U.S. House Security Committee -- House Homeland Security Committee has voted to bring articles of impeachment forward. Take it to a vote on the House floor against the secretary of homeland security.
We'll continue to follow the story. Obviously, this is not done yet. A lot of drama to go for our viewers in the United States. The Source with Kaitlan Collins resumes after this break for international viewers, right back in just a moment. Stay with us. You're watching CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[01:26:13]
VAUSE: One of the candidates standing for president in Russia is one who actually opposes the Kremlin. Well, that's the expectation with Boris Nadezhdin expected to submit the 100,000 signatures needed to qualify in the upcoming hours.
He says he's collected twice that number. The Kremlin has dismissed his candidate because Putin has already won. No, sorry, saying he's not a rival as a president. Vladimir Putin.
Nadezhdin says if elected, he'll guarantee safety for Putin, keep him away from a war crimes tribunal in the Hague, and make sure he gets a pension. The election is on March 15. Should be a doozy.
Washington has fired a diplomatic warning shot after an opposition candidate in Venezuela has been disqualified for running for president. The U.S. has sanctioned just one stateowned company, but warns the lucrative oil and gas sector could be sanctioned in April.
And President Nicholas Maduro does not allow credible opposition candidates to compete in this year's election. His vice president called the move blackmail and warned of retaliation by migration policies. Meantime, the main opposition challenger, Maria Machado, is refusing
to exit the race, even though the Maduro controlled Supreme Court disqualified her from holding any public office for 15 years.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARIA CORINA MACHADO, VENEZUELA OPPOSITION LEADER: We knew that this route was going to be full of obstacles because Nicolas Maduro knows that running against me means he will lose those elections. But Venezuela has been changing. He has lost total support of the base the Tavista movement once had. Over 80 percent of the population rejects the regime and wants change. And now we are receiving more and more and more support of international allies pushing towards free and fair elections.
So we have time in front of us that we need to use to build as much citizen strength and organization to reach a point in which Maduro will have to accept that he will have to face me. It's not Nicolas Maduro the one who is going to handpick the candidate of the opposition, is the Venezuelan people who already did that in the primary process.
The other part, we have complied with everything that we committed to do. So it's in the field of the regime if you want this process to continue.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Russia and Venezuela aren't the only countries where autocratic leaders embrace a sham election. From Egypt to Iran, from China to Kazakhstan, countries ruled by leaders for life are overwhelmingly reelected, often receiving more than 90 percent of the vote. Also they say, but why do dictators hold elections in the first place?
To help answer that question, we're joined now by Carl Henrik Knutsen, Professor of Political science at the University of Oslo. Thank you, sir, for being with us.
CARL HENRIK KNUTSEN, PROFESSOR OF POLITICAL SCIENCE, UNIVERSITY OF OSLO: Thank you for having me.
VAUSE: I'd like you to listen to the presidential candidate in Venezuela, Maria Machado, who was recently disqualified from running for office. Here she is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MACHADO: It is the best option for all, including Maduro. The best option for Maduro is to sit and negotiate with me a peaceful transition for our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: OK Right. She was banned despite promises from the Venezuelan president made to the United States about holding free and fair elections in return for sanctions being lifted. So what would your message be to Machado about the prospects of sitting down and negotiating a transition with Maduro?
KNUTSEN: Well, I mean, most dictatorships are quite stable, but there are options, I mean, and elections open up opportunities often for transition. So we see that from the data that whenever there are elections in dictatorships there's always an increased risk of regime change.
[01:30:00]
So sometimes it happens through kind of revolutions in the streets. So while elections are manipulated, people take to the streets and things happen. But occasionally there will be transitions we're seeing basically understands that that game is over and need to make some kind of negotiated transition.
So there is often a window of configuring during elections but if the regime is able to ride off the storm, kind of long term, these elections can actually have more stabilizing effects. So it's kind of a double-edged sword.
VAUSE: Yes. You actually look specifically into this issue about why dictators actually hold these sham/fake elections if you like.
Here's part of your findings. We found that elections can actually prolong dictatorships in the longer term. We also found that holding elections as you just said, it's very risky for dictators in the shorter term.
So explain why there's this sort of short-term risk, but long-term gain for many of these dictators. I've always wondered why Putin decides, you know, to hold elections. He doesn't need to.
KNUTSEN: So to start with the risks and there are substantial risks for dictators to holding elections. So first this is so occasionally there will be dictators who basically miscalculate and are not able to manipulate systems. So they will lose the polls then he might refuse to back down.
But, but that's a very clear signal to different opposition groups, different parts of the citizenry, different organizations and opposition parties to basically rally around and coordinate.
So this is why elections are so dangerous even if there's this clear evidence, also of fraud. Then that's also very clear signal to the different groups in the country that now is the time to challenge the regime.
So this is the risk, this is the short-term risking while we see that the probability of defeat should be breaking down, it's actually harder in election years than other years.
But if they are able to ride out the storm, there are three basically mechanisms that work more longer, longer term. So one is its legitimacy. So even if we can see that these elections are fraud or at least some people, (INAUDIBLE) realized these are fraudulent elections. There is some kind of legitimacy benefit, at least in certain groups to be able to claim that you're having elections and so uncertainly about the popularity of the regime.
So Putin is a good, good example. I think he's been deemed us as very popular within Russia and there's probably good reason to believe that. So that's, one aspect.
The other one is basically that you use show of force, you signal to the opposition that you're able to organize, kind of mobilize the troops if you like, mobilize your supporters and pull off a fraudulent election. So it's kind of a signal of force.
And then the third one is information. So if you hold elections, you can basically -- and there's a lot of good research on this autographs, being able to see where in the country are we more and less popular kind of what are the issues to be able to use this to gain information about what's going on the ground because that's often difficult in autocracies to figure out what people truly, truly mean.
VAUSE: And this year there are so many crucial elections being held, you know, from the United States to Russia. And a recent article in "The Atlantic" notes that every year, the number of countries moving towards democracy has been smaller than the number of countries moving towards authoritarianism. Authoritarianism, not democracy is on the march.
I mean, the discussion of why that is happening right now is a very big discussion. But I guess is this the year that some say we'll know by the end of 2024 if democracy died.
KNUTSEN: So I mean, it's always hard to say. So sometimes these kind of -- we can see this throughout modern history that democracy is globally is basically coming in ebbs and flows. We have periods of time with kind of great expansion of democracy. And then you have this kind of reverse waves where advocacy is the rise and at the very least, democracy has stagnated globally over the last few years.
And it's been on the decline according to many democracy measures. And given this (INAUDIBLE) there are so many autocracies in addition to democracies of different quality holding elections. It means that there's this heightened risk of some of them breaking down. And that would be good for democracy basically.
But you could also have this kind of consolidation of power effects and so it's really a key here for democracy globally.
VAUSE: Carl Henrik Knutsen there in Oslo, getting up early for us to give us some insight into what's happening around the world with dictatorships. Thank you, sir, for being with us.
KNUTSEN: Thank you so much for having me.
[01:34:45]
VAUSE: We have this news just in. There is a new, even tougher sentence which has been handed down to the former Pakistani prime minister Imran Khan. Khan and his wife have now been sentenced to 14 years in prison after he was found guilty of not disclosing information on sold gifts sent to him by foreign leaders while he was in office.
Just a day earlier, Khan was sentenced to ten years for leaking state secrets. He'll be likely to serve the sentences simultaneously. But insists all the charges are politically motivated. And his PTI Party is now challenging -- well they say will challenge those verdicts, with both happening in a closed court a little more than a week before the next elections there in Pakistan.
Despite his verdict (ph), Khan remains very popular with his voters.
A Thai court will rule soon on whether an opposition party plan to amend a law against insulting the monarchy is unconstitutional. That's according to the news agency, Reuters. The court also expected to decide whether the plan is equivalent to an attempt to overthrow the government with the king as head of state.
Move Forward argues that changing the law would make the constitutional monarchy stronger and stop the law for being misused by lawmakers against their political opponents.
The penalty for insulting Thai royalty right now is up to 15 years in jail and they use it a lot.
Well, when we come back, Paris under siege with highways and roads into the French capital blocked by protesting farmers angry over surging costs and falling incomes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VAUSE: Welcome back, everyone. I'm John Vause. You're watching CNN NEWSROOM.
Farmers in Spain are set to join protests across Europe demanding increased government assistance. Farmers in Belgium used their tractors to block a highway on Tuesday. They've joined Germany, Italy, Romania, and France as part of these strikes.
And in France, tens of thousands of farmers have staged nationwide protests including throwing manure on government buildings and blocking roads into Paris. And now pressure is growing on the French President Emmanuel Macron to try and resolve it.
Mr. Macron set to discuss the issue with European Commission president on Thursday. Farmers used tractors to block key roadways outside Paris to protest cheap imports, low wages, government policies. They're not happy.
CNN's Melissa Bell has this report -- reporting in from the French capital.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What we've seen since yesterday are these farmers who has been spreading their discontent fairly widely across France, blockading roads with their tractors elsewhere around the country, dumping manure outside of local stores, setting tires and waste too light, to try and draw attention. (INAUDIBLE) it had begun in the south of France more than a week ago. And has now moved progressively close to Paris and we're now just on the outskirts of Paris. Their plan is to stay until they get what they want from the government.
[01:39:50]
BELL: Now, what they're complaining about are combination of higher production costs as a result of the E.U. subsidy system and government efforts to bring down food inflation for people coupled with an extraordinary amount of red tape they say that makes it simply impossible for them to do their job.
For instance, what French farmers say is that it takes them an entire day each week just to fill out the paperwork that they need in order to get their subsidies from the common agricultural policy.
So it's a number of different issues that they say have driven them to this, to trying to put a stranglehold around the French capital in order to bring it to a halt. It is a siege that they're threatening.
For now just a few of these main roads into Paris are being blocked. Their threat though is that this will get (INAUDIBLE) now.
As you can see, well, just behind me where they have set up a little while ago, a big screen. They were listening to Gabriel Atal, the French prime minister make a serious (ph) announcement to French farmers.
For now, I have to say it was a very broad speech. A very fiery, he's new to his job, he's very young. And it was his job to try and show that he was determined to change the way the French state worked.
In terms of specifics for farmers, it was fairly short on those, but we expect more measures to be announced today. Much more crucial, though likely to be this meeting on Thursday, E.U. leaders will meet.
Remember that this is now a European-wide problem. Each set of farmers from the particular countries has their own set of grievances. But all together, European-wide farmers are feeling the brunt of European regulations that are making their jobs harder, European attempts to import cheap food both grain and meat, milk from outside the European Union where they say the measures, the request, the demands being made, of farmers there are far less stringent.
So there is an injustice they say at the heart of the system that they are no longer willing to tolerate and they say very much like you'll remember, the Yellow Vest protests of a few years ago here in France. They were kicked off by that straw that broke the camel's back. It was a rise in fuel taxes.
Similarly, the drop really here that caused all of this to explode here in front France was the announcement that there would no longer be subsidies on the crucial diesel that many of these farmers use to run their farm. So all of this combined now a major headache for the French government
and not only for European governments and for Brussels by the time they meet on Thursday. They're going to figure out how they can bring this sort of disruption to an end.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: A woman's right to an abortion is one step closer to being enshrined in the French constitution after the lower house of parliament overwhelmingly passed a historic bill Tuesday.
Almost 500 in favor, 30 opposed. The bill now moves to the more conservative senate, where it is not guaranteed to pass. This push to constitutionalize abortion became a priority for the French government after the U.S. Supreme Court overturned the Roe versus Wade decision, the legal precedent by the Supreme Court, which legalized abortion.
If this new bill in France becomes law, the country will become the first in the world to include abortion rights in the constitution.
And with that, we'll be right back with a lot more CNN NEWSROOM 43 minutes pass the hour. See you in a few minutes.
[01:43:14]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VAUSE: Attracting investment is vital for any startup company. And this month, "Africa Insider" meets GetFundedAfrica and Nigerian digital marketplace that uses artificial intelligence to help match suitable investors with startups on the continent.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOSHUA MURIMA, HEAD OF ENGAGEMENT & INVESTMENT RELATIONS, BRITER BRIDGES: The African tax scene has grown in leaps and bounds over the past ten years. So far, $21 billion has been deployed over the course of ten years.
This has created a new hub of a presence of a digital economy that attracts stakeholders and investors and (INAUDIBLE) across the globe.
DEBO OMOLOLU; CO-FOUNDER, GETFUNDEDAFRICA: For African businesses and African people, they typically have to find a way to leap frog existing infrastructure deficits. And so fintech comes as a way for that leap frog to happen in a digital way, thereby bringing in efficiency and growth and economic impact.
My name is Debo Omololu, and I am the co-founder and CEO of GetFundedAfrica.
GetFundedAfrica is a cloud-based company that provides solutions that helps African companies to grow, tell their stories, and to raise funds. The whole essence of GetFundedAfrica was really more about how can we influence and make it easier for people around the world to invest in African companies. And those African companies to be able to solve social problems.
But beyond just fundraising, it also even recommends leveraging A.I., several sets of investors that have a higher probability of investing in companies.
So you could think of it, you know, as a Tinder sort of with investors and so you can swipe left if need be. It makes it a lot easier to get matched to you know, an equity investor or debt investor.
Just do what I am, follow all the steps and I'm matched with somebody that is, you know, like-minded. All right, now, we have interests of around $300,000.
GetFundedAfrica has helped over 500 companies raise $400 million over the last few years. And we now have companies in 34 of Africa's 55 countries and territories.
Weve been involved in fintech naturally, which is one of the biggest platforms -- biggest industries from an African perspective out there, supply chain and logistics, agriculture, even space tech as well, and education technology firms.
Fintech and technology as a whole is going to be the way that Africa moves from an emerging economy into a top economy in the world.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: Well, still to come, a reason for hope for thousand suffering from quadriplegia. Quadriplegia, I should say, with human trials now underway of a wireless brain implant which could restore the ability to move.
[01:48:28]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VAUSE: Now to a small step towards Elon Musk's dream of augmenting the human brain with technology not just to compete with, but to survive in an A.I.-filled world. Musk announced his startup company Neuralink that installed a brain implant in its first human patient.
Don't know a lot about the patient, Musk says he's recovering well -- or he or she is recovering well.
Neuralink is far from the only company working on this type of technology, but ultimately Musk says he wants to commercialize a product called Telepathy, and someday help people who have lost the use of their limbs.
So does this mean there's now reason for hope for thousands of people with debilitating conditions such as quadriplegia?
CNN's chief medical correspondent, Sanjay Gupta is with us now to explain how all of this works. And it's good to see you. Thanks for being with us.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: You, too. Thank you. Thanks for having me.
VAUSE: Now, Elon Musk, he's not the only one in planning wireless interface devices into people's brains, or at least his company. A handful of companies have been conducting their own trials. But the Neuralink chip or N1, as it's called, kind of works differently to the others in part because of these threads, these dozens of threads which implant directly to brain tissue.
So explain how they work and why this is so unique.
GUPTA: Yes. So basically you're talking about a device that's about the size of a quarter, just to give you some context. It's pretty small and it's got these threads as you mentioned, that sit on an area of the brain.
I'm going to show you on this model here, John, if you can see this, there are parts of the brain that are responsible for different things. So on the top here, this is a part of the brain that's responsible for movement.
This chip or this device actually sits on that top, that part of the brain. And when you think about movement, can't move. These are patients who are quadriplegic or have ALS, but just thinking about movement, that releases a characteristic firing of neurons. And this device says, oh, ok, that's the firing of neurons that looks like when someone wants to move a cursor this way or move a mouse this way.
And eventually the device learns what those -- those electrical patterns look like. And after it learns it well enough and that can take weeks, if not months to learn it connects to a Bluetooth device, which can then control things in your environment, your smartphone, your mouse on your computer, things like that.
The person is not moving, but they're just thinking about moving and that's what's causing this change in the devices around them.
VAUSE: Yes. I guess at this point, what is unknown is how long a patient will be able to tolerate the chip, actually, in the brain, how long that chip will continue to operate.
And here -- here's what Neuralink is actually promising, part of the promotion. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The device is designed to interpret your neural activity so you can operate a computer or smartphone by simply thinking about moving. No wires or physical movement are required.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: They also need to prove not only that the technology works, but it actually bring significant benefits as well.
So looking ahead here, what needs to happen before it could be available on a much wider basis to people who need it. GUPTA: You know, to your first point, John, about just the device
itself, you know, as a neurosurgeon myself, we do implant devices in the brain for different sorts of thing, deep brain stimulators and things like that.
So that's not new to necessarily have a foreign body that sits in the brain or on top of the brain as, as is the case here but. But a lot of things have to happen for this to become a reality.
I mean, you know, the idea, first of all, all we know is they've implanted it. Does it actually work? There has been videos of monkeys, for example, primates that have had these devices that have been able to control a cursor and even play a game like pong for example. I think we have some video of that.
Is it going to be able to do the same thing in humans, will it get even better so that I could have a text chain with you without ever having to actually touch a device, just doing it all with my mind.
I think that they're pretty confident they're going to get to that point. But that's years away still, John. They have to go through all this regulatory approval. They got to do more and more patients. They got to make sure that they actually show that it not only works but works in different types of patients.
VAUSE: Musk though has much grander ambitions. Apparently, he wants to develop a generalized input/output device that could interface with every aspect of your brain.
In other words, something everybody would use to connect their minds directly to the digital realm. Just like Neo in "Matrix". Look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LAWRENCE FISHBURNE, ACTOR: Damn straight. Just a machine.
KEANU REEVES, ACTOR: I know Kung Fu.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: I know Kung Fu.
GUPTA: Love that movie.
[01:54:48]
VAUSE: Great movie. The first one was the best. The rest were not so good.
Musk has this reputation for over-promising and under-delivering but even so, it seems, you know, there is still a lot to be gained even if he does fall short.
GUPTA: I think that for patients who are quadriplegics, for example, they can't move; people who have ALS and they're beginning to be progressively weak. There's a real utility I think to these types of devices.
And again, just keep in mind, we're talking about a very specific part of the brain. You're really looking at motor function here in terms of something that you can improve.
What you just saw there with that video and some of these promises that's talking about like human consciousness and cognition and things like that. That's not an incremental step.
John, that's exponential step. So I say years before we get to the point where it becomes a reality for people who have quadriplegia, it's much longer than that even for the idea of being able to capture cognition and be able to link it to a device as Musk is talking about.
VAUSE: But, you know, the future is now.
Sanjay, as always thanks for being with us.
(CROSSTALKING)
GUPTA: Thank you.
VAUSE: Take care.
GUPTA: You got it.
VAUSE: Finally, for anyone who may still be remotely interested in the disappearance of Amelia Earhart, there are new developments on the location of her never-found wreckage of a plane.
A team of underwater archaeologists and marine robotics experts say they found something that looks like a small aircraft while using sonar image to map the Pacific Ocean floor. The CEO of Deep Sea Vision, the exploration company running the mission, explains what they saw.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TONY ROMEO, CEO, DEEP SEA VISION: there's three things about it that we really liked that you posted on the screen there. The twin vertical stabilizer at the back are very clear on the sonar image and those were very distinctive of Amelia Earhart's aircraft. And we were very happy to see those.
The second thing is the aircraft, the target that we got the sonar image of was in a very flat, sandy surface. So to see anything protruding up or sitting on the seafloor would have been very unusual.
And then thirdly the size of the target would actually fit very closely to what we'd expect from her aircraft.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: The image was taken about 160 kilometers away from Howland Island where Earhart was expected to land during her attempt in 1937 to be the first female pilot to fly around the world. Deep Sea Vision says it's too premature to say definitively if this is
indeed her plane. The next steps are to send a remotely-operated vehicle down with a camera for a closer look. And we will bring you those developments as they happen, here on CNN.
Thank you for watching. I'm John Vause.
CNN NEWSROOM continues with my friend and colleague Rosemary Church, after a very short break.
See you back here tomorrow.
[01:57:28]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
