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Global Outrage Grows Over Death Of Putin Critic Alexey Navalny; Vice President Harris Meets Zelenskyy In Munich, Vows U.S. Support For Ukraine; Vice President Harris: United States "Cannot Play Political Games' With Ukraine Support; Judge Orders Trump To Pay Nearly $355M In Civil Fraud Trial; Russia Attempting To Develop Nuclear Space Weapon; VA Home Explodes, Leaving Firefighter Dead And 13 Others Injured; Israel Hostage Coordinator: Hamas Demands For Deal "Delusional". Aired 12-1p ET

Aired February 17, 2024 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: And if that doesn't happen, they say, violence will continue. We will wait to see.

And that is all we have time for this week. If you want to ask me a question, scan the Q.R. code on your screen, or e-mail askamanpour@cnn.com.

Remember to tell us your name and where you're from. And don't forget, you can find all our shows online as podcast at cnn.com/podcast, and on all other major platforms.

I'm Christiane Amanpour, thank you for watching, and see you again from London next week.

[12:00:41]

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me, I'm FREDERICKA Whitfield in Washington, D.C.

Right now, world leaders are meeting at a major security conference in Munich, Germany, at a time of uncertainty and festering tensions across the globe, they are discussing multiple new developments including the death of Russian opposition leader Alexey Navalny, and allegations that it came at the direction of Vladimir Putin.

Navalny's family saying he was murdered in prison and demanding the return of his body.

Security concerns around the world and in space. Also, big concerns at this conference. CNN learning exclusive new details about Russia's attempts to develop a nuclear space weapon, capable of destroying satellites and paralyzing global communications.

The wars in Ukraine and Israel are also top of mind in Munich. Today, Vice President Kamala Harris meeting with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, and pledging unyielding U.S. support.

U.S. aid for Ukraine is at a standstill, as House lawmakers start a two-week recess without taking action on a supplemental security package.

Let's begin in Munich and the death of Alexey Navalny. CNN chief international correspondent Nick Paton Walsh is there. Nick, what are you hearing from world leaders who have all gathered there in Munich?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, continued day of outrage, frankly, and sadness about the death of Russia's leading opposition figure.

Now, we're learning more details about the circumstances around that from Navalny's own team. Some of them saying that, in fact, his mother traveled to the penal colony known as Polar Wolf up in Kharp near the Arctic Circle to try and see the body, get visual confirmation themselves.

They were told in a Telegram -- she was told in a telegram that indeed he had died, but the body had been taken by Russian investigators to a nearby town called Salah Hara.

Now, U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken, reflecting today on how the death of Navalny was simply another sign of the extreme brutality of the Putin administration.

I should say at this point. You know, there aren't direct allegations to suggest the murder of Navalny purposefully, but certainly at the most generous interpretation, his death in Russian prison custody is an extraordinary lack of care from somebody with frail health by the Russian prison system that was in charge, with his safety. But still more details emerging here.

And the death of Navalny, a stark reminder to world leaders here in a conference that could easily have been overshadowed by former President Trump's remarks about the integrity and how much he might continue to support NATO in the years ahead, a stark reminder of the threat that Moscow faces to so many European countries, namely indeed, Ukraine, where today, we saw Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, on the stage, making a very clear case to European allies, essentially that Ukraine's safety, Ukraine's victory, Ukraine's arming is all about European security, even potentially floating the notion that at some point in the future, NATO members might have to start thinking about defending each other even without U.S. help, potentially.

And indeed, a day too when Ukraine has deeply struggled on its own frontlines. You mentioned that Kamala Harris talking about the urgent need for U.S. aid. $60 billion being held up, two more weeks, potentially, until Congress even considers to vote.

Remember, it's Republican dysfunctionality that's really holding up the aid being processed today.

Ukraine had to announce the loss of another town in the East. They fought for it for weeks, for months, Avdiivka. Ukraine pulled out of it today. Zelenskyy saying that they say, they inflicted seven Russian deaths for each one Ukrainian serviceman they have lost. But it's another sign of how Ukrainians losing, frankly, on the battlefield, because it hasn't had the simple Western support it relied on in the past. Fredricka?

WHITFIELD: Nick Paton Walsh, thank you so much in Munich.

As Nick mentioned, Vice President Kamala Harris, meeting a short time ago with Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, at the security conference there in Munich.

CNN, White House reporter Priscilla Alvarez Joining me now. Priscilla, what are we learning about that conversation?

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, this was an opportunity for the vice president to reaffirm U.S. support for Ukraine especially as those funds remain stalled in Congress.

[12:05:02]

And the funds that we're talking about here, to remind viewers, are ones that the White House requested back in October. That $60 billion in additional aid to Ukraine among a set of other priority items for the White House.

Now, those funds have remained stalled amid infighting in Congress about whether or not to provide them to Ukraine.

Now, this week, we saw some movement, and the Senate did pass a foreign aid package that included those $60 billion for Ukraine.

But as you heard there from Nick, the House has since left for a two- week recess, and House Speaker Mike Johnson has indicated that he has no plans to put this bill on the floor, which just raises the question as to what happens next with these monies that the White House say are necessary for Ukraine.

Now, the vice president also seem to weigh in on this in her remarks today, saying that there shouldn't be politics played when it comes to these important funds.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We must be unwavering and we cannot play political games. Political gamesmanship has no role to play in what is fundamentally about the significance of standing with an ally, as it endures an unprovoked aggression.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALVAREZ: Now, the vice president also made clear today that this is also in the strategic interests of the United States. This has been the steady drumbeat from President Biden, Vice President Kamala Harris and a series of top U.S. officials who have said this isn't just about helping Ukraine, this is also in the interest of U.S. national security.

So, expect to hear more of that in the weeks to come as they try to place pressure on the House to pass these additional funds. The Ukrainian president himself also stating saying that this package is vital. Fred?

WHITFIELD: All right. Priscilla Alvarez, thanks so much.

All right. Let's get more now with Angela Stent. She is a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution and author of the book, "Putin's World: Russia Against the West and the Rest.

Thank you so much, Angela, great to see you.

So, from President Biden on, you know, Putin is being blamed for Navalny's death. Putin, you know, had you expect this kind of global response. So, why would Navalny die now, especially a day after video showed him joking with the judge, and while that security conference is happening in Munich?

ANGELA STENT, SENIOR FELLOW, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: So, this has been a long death for Alexey Navalny, the Kremlin's clearly responsible. Remember, he was poisoned way back in 2020. He nearly died. The Germans then saved him. And ever since he's been in jail, again, and he's been in these very brutal prisons, his health has been fragile. He is been demanding medical care, he did not receive the medical care.

So, whether they did something to him to make sure that he died just on the day when the Munich Security Conference open, or whether this was just the result of years of neglecting his health in these very harsh prison conditions, I think we'll never know.

But it certainly has taken the attention of the Munich Security Conference and just reinforced how brutal the Russian regime is.

WHITFIELD: And when you hear from Ukraine's Zelenskyy, who says, you know, Putin sent a clear message with the debt of -- death of Navalny, what is that clear message?

STENT: Well, the first messages that essentially, nobody can oppose Putin. Alexey Navalny was the really the leader of the opposition in Russia, even though he was in jail. And there is no other one in Russia who can take over that leadership role.

There are plenty of Russians who are inside Russia who oppose the war, they'll -- but they'll get arrested. As we saw yesterday, even with people laying flowers silently at the memorials to Alexey Navalny.

So, that's his first message. And his second message, I think, is we don't care what the West thinks, the West is our enemy. If you don't like it, you can complain about it. But we are just going to continue what we are doing. We are going to continue this war in Ukraine. And as we just heard, they have gained now a town, Avdiivka.

So, I think those are the dual messages, both to his own population and to the west.

WHITFIELD: There never seem to be any real consequences for Putin. Will that change with the death of Navalny? STENT: I think the only consequences that would matter is if the United States House of Representatives voted and we agreed to supply Ukraine with the $60 billion, including the weapons that needs to push back against Russia. And if the Europeans do the same thing.

So that's the best we can do to ensure that Ukraine does better in this war, and that Russia doesn't win.

There is not much else we can do to affect what happens inside Russia. Putin has already been indicted as a war criminal, but it doesn't seem to make any difference to what he does.

So, the most important thing is that continued support for Ukraine as we heard from Vice President Harris and, of course, from President Zelenskyy himself.

[12:10:04]

WHITFIELD: And again, from Zelenskyy there and Munich, and you know, seemingly a real direct message to U.S. members -- to members of the U.S. Congress who are all now on a two-week break. And as Zelenskyy said, please, everyone remember that dictators do not go on vacation.

STENT: Yes.

WHITFIELD: Do you think that might sink in to help get more U.S. aid to Ukraine?

STENT: I certainly wish it would. But it seems that the, you know, even though a majority of Republicans in the House of Representatives would work -- would vote for assistance to Ukraine, the Speaker seems to refuse to bring it up, I think he's very worried about the small majority that Republicans have. We know that President Trump has essentially said this shouldn't be voted on. So, this comes down to a mess American domestic politics.

And I'm not sure what if -- what President Zelenskyy said is going to move that.

WHITFIELD: All right. Angela Stent, always good to see you.

STENT: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: I apologize for hesitating at the beginning. I'm so used to calling you, professor. And, instead, today, it was Angela Stent. But I'm going to always call your professor. Professor Angela Stent, thank you so much.

STENT: Thank you so much.

WHITFIELD: All right. Still to come. Exclusive new details on Russia, attempting to develop a nuclear space weapon.

And Donald Trump vowing to fight that crushing $355 million fine in his New York civil fraud trial, how fighting back could actually cost him millions more? (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:15:52]

WHITFIELD: Former President Donald Trump is vowing to appeal a devastating civil court ruling, ordering him to pay hundreds of millions of dollars.

Friday, a New York judge ordered Trump and his companies to pay nearly $355 million for fraudulently inflating the value of his properties. And if interest accrues, New York officials say that multimillion dollar judgement could swell to $450 million.

The judge ruled Trump and his two adult sons engaged in a years' long scheme. Tricking banks into thinking assets were worth more than they actually were.

CNN's Kara Scannell has more on the financial and political fallout.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): A devastating blow to Trump's reputation as a successful businessman, after a New York Supreme Court judge ordered him and his company to pay nearly $355 million, barring him from serving as a company director in the city where he made his billions, where his name is plastered on skyscrapers for three years.

LETITIA JAMES, ATTORNEY GENERAL OF NEW YORK: Donald Trump may have authored the art of the deal, but he perfected the art of the steal. This long running fraud was intentional, egregious, illegal.

SCANNELL (voice over): Friday's ruling follows a nearly three-month long trial filled with dramatic moments. Trump himself often chose to attend court, though he was only required to be there when he testified.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This trial was railroaded and fast tracked. This trial could have been brought years ago, but they waited until I was right in the middle of my campaign.

SCANNELL (voice over): He frequently attacked Judge Engoron, as well as his clerk, and the New York attorney general in the hallways of the courthouse and on Truth Social.

TRUMP: This judge is a very partisan judge, with a person who's very partisan sitting alongside of him.

We're wasting our time on this trial, with a Democrat judge from the clubhouses, it's a disgrace.

And we're going to be here for months with a judge that already made up his mind.

We have a rogue judge who rules that properties are worth a tiny fraction - one one-hundredth -- a tiny fraction of what they actually are.

A Trump hater, the only one that hates Trump more is his associate up there.

SCANNELL (voice over): His attacks even resulted in the judge issuing a gag order, restricting him from going after the court staff, which Trump then violated twice and was fined a total of $15,000.

DONALD TRUMP JR., CO-DEFENDANT IN NEW YORK CIVIL FRAUD TRIAL: I thought they were going to go somewhere, but I think they understand that they have nothing as it relates to a case other than, I guess, an overzealous attorney general who would destroy all of New York business by going after transactions where there are no victims, you know, I guess, other than herself.

SCANNELL (voice over): The former president and his adult sons, all testified during the trial, which began in October last year. During his testimony, Donald Trump frequently clashed with Judge Engoron in the courtroom. The judge warning Trump's lawyer, Chris Kise, to control your client and threatened to remove him.

TRUMP: Thank you very much.

SCANNELL (voice over): Outside Mar-a-Lago, Friday, after the ruling, Donald Trump continued those attacks.

TRUMP: These are radical left Democrats, they are lunatics, and its election interfering. So, I just want to thank you for being here. We'll appeal. We'll be successful. I think because, frankly, if we're not successful, New York State is gone. People are moving out of New York State. And because of this, they are going to move out at a much faster rate.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCANNELL (on camera): The judge ordering Donald Trump to pay nearly $355 million. Plus, another $100 million in interest with other legal judgments against him. He is owing more than $540 million. A big bill for the former president. Kara Scannell, CNN, New York.

WHITFIELD: All right. Thank you so much, Kara.

With me now to discuss this ruling and more is Neama Rahmani. He is a former federal prosecutor and the president of West Coast Trial Lawyers.

Neama, always great to see you.

So, Trump and his team, of course, you know, are appealing but interests will also mount on that enormous fine and penalty of $354 million. So, while on appeal, does Trump still have to put down a downpayment or collateral of some sort or a bond covering the full amount?

[12:20:04] NEAMA RAHMANI, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Yes, Fred. Nothing comes for free. And we know for the first Jean Carroll defamation verdict, Trump did put $5.5 million in escrow with the court.

But, now, we're talking about approximately half a billion dollars, even for someone like Donald Trump, I don't think he has that type of money laying around.

So, he's likely going to have to get an appeal bond to put up a percentage -- cash and the rest will be secured by collateral. And then, once he puts that appeal bond up, then, he'll be able to appeal.

WHITFIELD: So, even though according to The Washington Post, Bloomberg Billionaires Index recently estimated Trump's net worth of $3.1 billion with 600 million in cash assets.

So, before potentially selling off any property, could the court make him kind of cough up from that cash assets?

RAHMANI: Well, while the appeal is pending, one of two things will happen, the Court of Appeal will decide to stay or pause the judgement, the order from the trial court below. We know that Trump loves those stays, that's what's happening in the D.C. election fraud case.

But if the judgement is not stayed, then whether it's Jean Carroll or the New York State attorney general, they can start enforcing those judgments. They can go after Trump's assets, his bank accounts, they can levy any wages or they can attach and put liens on his property, potentially even foreclosing on them.

WHITFIELD: So as part of the penalty, the court ordered an independent monitor of Trump's businesses as well. So, how does that work, and when would that kick in?

RAHMANI: Well, Fred, this was one of the only wins for Donald Trump, of course, before the trial, Judge Engoron, canceled Trump's business licenses and his entities would have been dissolved. Now, that ruling was put on pause or state again by the Court of Appeal. So, now, what the judge said is we're going to continue to monitor the retired federal judge.

And in addition, the Trump entities have to hire an independent compliance officer. So, before they submit financial statements to anyone, these two individuals need to review them to make sure they're accurate.

WHITFIELD: OK. All right. So, now onto the Georgia Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis, who defended herself in quite dramatic powerful fashion against allegations that she financially benefited from her romantic relationship with one of the prosecutors. Is this an easy decision for the judge based on what you and everyone watched?

RAHMANI: Well, I think it's easy decision not to dismiss the case. Willis's and Wade's alleged misconduct, that is not going to result in dismissal of the case against Trump or any of the co-defendants, because there is no conflict of interest, they're on the same side.

But there is certainly an appearance of impropriety and there's likely ethics violations. Based on Willis's own testimony, I think she should step down and Wade should as well. And career prosecutors in Fulton County should take over the case, because there is a real possibility now, because she's doubled down on all this, that the whole D.A.'s office is disqualified.

WHITFIELD: Right. And that's pretty sizable. But then, from the point of view of the allegations that co-defendants made, do you feel like they proved their allegations against Willis?

RAHMANI: I don't think that necessarily prove that Willis financially benefited. But now, there is this whole cloud that's hanging over the case. Even if it moves forward, there's a potential appellate issue.

So, the question is, even if there is an appearance of impropriety, you are a public service, Fani Willis -- you're a public servant. So, why are you using public funds to pay your boyfriend, $500,000 or $600,000?

Even if everything's on the up and up, this is not something that has the appearance of being appropriate. So, I think they should step aside. I think legally, though, if Judge McAfee rules that there is no conflict of interest that Willis didn't pay her boyfriend and receive any benefits, she'll be able to stay on the case. But again, we're really kicking the can down the road, and this case has already been delayed for so long, because it was the last one to be filed, there's 19 co-defendants, and now you're creating unnecessary issues on appeal.

WHITFIELD: How much longer do you think Judge McAfee will need in order to render a decision?

RAHMANI: I think he is going to render a decision next week. He's moved pretty quickly when it comes to his orders. And, you know, we need to keep this case moving. Obviously, it was the last time we filed. And a lot of this is Willis's own doing. And she charged an acting co-defendant. Some of them have pled, of course, like Sidney Powell and Ken Chesebro.

But this case is going to move at a snail's pace. We even saw when she was testifying, we have a dozen defense attorneys who are conducting cross examinations and we've seen other cases like this the Young Thug --

(CROSSTALK)

WHITFIELD: What.

RAHMANI: Young Thug trial. It's going to move slowly -- very slowly, Fred.

WHITFIELD: Yes, the co-defendants did have a big legal team. All right. Neama Rahmani, thank you so much. Great to see you.

[12:25:03]

RAHMANI: Thanks for having me, Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right. Still ahead, a new CNN exclusive reporting on a potential Russian nuclear space weapon. The details up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right. Now, to a "CNN EXCLUSIVE", Russia is trying to develop a nuclear space weapon that would destroy satellites, the world depends on for cell service and Wi-Fi.

Sources tells CNN that the weapon would create a massive energy wave when detonated. Potentially crippling both government and commercial satellites, and sending the world into a tailspin.

The Biden administration says the weapon is still under development and not in orbit and poses no nuclear threat to the people of America or anywhere else in the world at the moment.

With me now to discuss all of this is astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson.

[12:30:00]

He is also the co-author of "Accessory to War: The Unspoken Alliance Between Astrophysics and the Military".

All right. Neil, great to see you.

NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON, ASTROPHYSICIST: Yes. Thanks for having me back on.

WHITFIELD: All right. So I guess we should be relieved that at least President Biden says no nuclear threat to those of us on Earth. But how worrisome nonetheless, is this?

TYSON: Yes, the story has been percolating for a couple of days. And so everyone is wondering, is it nukes in space? Are they going to, you know, is it the literal fear that of "Star Wars," as imagine from decades ago. And there are a lot of operations in space, that would not be very good for even your own operations in space, for example, smashing satellites to bits, that creates a mess that other satellites, perhaps your own, will plow into, and destroy.

So any military action in space has huge consequences, not only for who might be your target, your enemy, but also for yourself, the new results -- the new reporting, appears to focus down now on an electromagnetic pulse, that would not physically destroy a satellite, but it would basically fry the circuitry, and every satellite in orbit uses sensitive circuitry to accomplish what it needs to weather satellites, communication satellites, spy satellites.

And so that could be very bad for all of the satellites that are in the attack zone. But if you're orbiting, it's -- you have to be near the satellite you're interested in, but then you have thousands of satellites, and so, so many satellites would be taken out. It's not clear to me that this is a wise strategic weapon at all, if it's real.

WHITFIELD: Do you believe it's viable? And if the answer to that is, yes, that if it would be Russia that would impose this kind of, you know, electric wave. I mean, how would it be able to protect itself against also being, you know, its satellites being destroyed, or compromised?

TYSON: Yes. That's it -- that's why it's a very messy weapon. If you want to think in terms of weapons that would attack other satellites, directed energy weapons are far more effective, where you, there's a target, there's a satellite of interest to you that you might want to destroy, you don't send out an EMP that takes out thousands of satellites, possibly your own, you have some directed energy weaponry that targets just that satellite, that doesn't break it into pieces, because like we said, that would be bad, but overheats the circuit, or over runs the circuit, short circuits it. So now why it wouldn't be nuclear? That's a big mystery to me. That's kind of unnecessary for that kind of operations.

WHITFIELD: OK. All right now, to some energy news out of the U.K., scientists in Oxford, set a new nuclear fusion energy record this week after sustaining enough energy to power 12,000 homes for five seconds. So what's your reaction to this? Does this, you know, is this a ray of hope?

TYSON: It's long overdue. I think, the -- by the way, this is nuclear fusion, very different from nuclear fission. The sun undergoes nuclear fission and to nuclear fusion, that's how we get our energy. I once saw a bumper sticker that said, no nukes. And it's the O in the no was an image of the sun. And I think they were trying to get you to use solar power. But it's kind of it -- that -- was it self-aware that the sun uses a nuclear power to provide its own energy. But with nuclear fusion, you're converting hydrogen into helium.

And that is a very clean source of energy, but we just have yet to harness it. We've been doing it ever since the beginning of the Cold War. That's what a hydrogen bomb is. So we've been able to conduct nuclear fusion in an uncontrolled way, a bomb, to control it, and to measure out the energy needs of a region or state of a nation. That's where -- that's the Holy Grail. And this recent result was very promising, very promising.

There's the amount of energy you put in the amount of energy you come out, and you just need that to be bigger. And then you've got basically unlimited energy. Right now what they built, the whole system took more energy than they got out of it. But you can imagine creating efficiencies in the rest of that apparatus so that at the end of the day, it's the energy in versus the energy out in the vessel. That is the nuclear fusion device.

WHITFIELD: Always school and I love it. So in a moment like that, where you see this bumper sticker and you're like, well, that's contrary to -- do you roll down the window and school at that moment and say, let me tell you about that bumper sticker.

TYSON: No. I'm not -- I'm chill for a lot of mistakes just to be clear.

WHITFIELD: OK.

TYSON: And quick point that you need to know about fusion, the plasma necessary to generate the energy is so hot you can't put it in something, there's nothing you can put it in because it would vaporize what you put it in. So the big challenge in these Tokamaks, which is one variety of these nuclear reactors is you create a magnetic bottle. So it's a magnetic casing, so that the plasma stays within the casing, but it doesn't touch physical material to vaporize it. So that's part of the challenge here to contain the fusion that you have wrought within the device.

[12:35:39]

WHITFIELD: Fabulous. Neil deGrasse Tyson, thank you so much. So glad you're able to come back and be with us.

TYSON: Always happy to be with you. Thanks, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: Have a great weekend. Thank you. And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:40:05]

WHITFIELD: An investigation is underway after a catastrophic explosion at a home in Sterling, Virginia. The blast happened last night as emergency crews were responding to gas leaking from a 500 gallon underground propane tank on the side of the house. One firefighter was killed and 13 other people were injured, including 11 first responders. CNN correspondent Polo Sandoval is following this story for us. So Polo, do we know the identity of the firefighter or even how this happened?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He was just identified a few moments ago by officials. First, Fred, I want to just give you some context about what happened yesterday evening, one of the officials that's been really offering updates on what occurred saying that this is the worst kind of call that firefighters could respond to being a report of a gas odor. This was yesterday evening. Fire officials arrived there in Sterling, Virginia, which is actually just north of Washington's Dulles Airport.

Shortly after they arrived, they located what was described as a 500 gallon underground propane tank and it apparently had a leak in it. That's when they immediately called hazmat services. And it was shortly after that that what's been described as a catastrophic explosion happened. The result was at least one firefighter killed and nearly a dozen other people injured. A majority of them firefighters who were injured, and at least two civilians who were at home at the time.

Look at the pictures, Fred, only the chimney, the fireplace there is the only thing that remained with that smoke billowing from the scene here, again, that catastrophic explosion. We do understand that the investigation is still ongoing right now in terms of trying to establish what led to this. However, fire officials saying that it was an isolated incident and stressing that there is no threat to the community around there. Again, that firefighter now identified as 45- year-old Trevor Brown had been working in the fire services there since about 2016.

So certainly going to be now a family that is mourning a loss not just the family but also his fellow firefighters as well, some of them still recovering in the hospital, Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right, and an entire community. All right, thank you so much, Polo Sandoval.

Coming up, a new CNN exclusive interview with Israel's hostage coordinator as talks on a potential ceasefire deal go cold, what he had to say about the future of a hostage release.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:47:00]

WHITFIELD: New today, U.S. Central Command says it struck two Iran- backed Houthi targets in the Red Sea. CENTCOM says the targets included a mobile anti-ship missile and a mobile unmanned surface vessel in Yemen. Those attacks happened as CENTCOM says Houthis launched four anti-ship missiles at ships in the Red Sea. Houthi attacks on the major global shipping channel have increased exponentially since the October 7th attacks in Israel.

Meanwhile, efforts continue to bring Israeli hostages home more than four months now after they were captured. Today, CNN's Alex Marquardt spoke with Israel's hostage negotiator on the sidelines of the Munich Security Conference. Here's their conversation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: What is your understanding right now of where the negotiations stand for a hostage deal?

GAL HIRSCH, ISRAEL'S COORDINATOR FOR THE CAPTIVES AND THE MISSING: Well, we want to do very much. And we know we need to pay prices. But Hamas demands are disconnected from reality, delusional. And we hope very much that they will come much closer to the zone of potential agreement.

MARQUARDT: Prime Minister Netanyahu has also called the Hamas proposal, delusional. What specifically about what they are asking for is just completely out of bounds for Israel?

HIRSCH: Literally all their response was far, far away from reality. And they know that. And my concerns is who's in the other side of negotiations? Whom are we negotiating with? We wanted to deal very much. But in the other side, we need to prove that it is someone that can deliver.

MARQUARDT: Are you implying that those Hamas officials are not in touch with the Hamas leaders who are actually on the ground in Gaza?

HIRSCH: I'll very much want to see proof. And such proof can be for example, show us that the medical support that was sent to hostages has arrived to its destination. This is very important, because it will show us that there is someone there that can really deliver and release our hostages.

MARQUARDT: Are you willing to release a large number of Palestinian prisoners, many of whom who have carried out attacks in Israel who have life sentences, are you willing to release them?

HIRSCH: We show that we are ready to pay prices. We show that. We mean that. But we want to see that in the other side, there is a reliable address, someone that can release the hostages and can deliver.

MARQUARDT: Hamas wants to see an end to the war. Israel does not want to end this war because there is still work to be done, Netanyahu says to dismantle Hamas. How do you close that gap in order to get these hostages home?

HIRSCH: Well, we showed in the last deal we've made that we are ready to stop warfare. It doesn't mean stopping the war.

MARQUARDT: Not permanently though.

HIRSCH: It doesn't mean stopping the war. But we are ready to stop the warfare. And that's a lot because breaking the momentum of maneuvering it's a big price, it's a big price.

[12:50:10]

MARQUARDT: The other ticking clock is the potential offensive by Israel into Rafah. This is something that the Prime Minister has talked about. Do you believe that a deal can be agreed to before that offensive?

HIRSCH: Well, Rafah is next of course, because in Rafah there are many hostages and many, many terror groups, actually Hamas is still there. So we do not want to cause collateral damage. Rafah, there's many, many people there that Hamas use right now as human shields. We are doing our best, everything we can, everything is possible to avoid collateral damage. But Rafah must be next, because we must release the hostages.

MARQUARDT: So standing here today, how optimistic are you that that deal can be reached?

HIRSCH: Well, I believe that the Hamas needs ceasefire. I think that Hamas wants much bigger humanitarian support to his own people. I believe that a deal can be made because we are ready to pay prices. But it must be closer to zone of potential agreement. Right now, this is not the situation.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: As hostage negotiations stall, Israel Defense Forces say they detained more than 20 people suspected of taking part in the October 7th attacks. In its raid at the largest functioning Hospital in Gaza, the Israeli military also says it found weapons inside the facility. But CNN could not independently verify those details. The Hamas run Palestinian health ministry says five patients were killed after power was cut to the complex. Patients were forced to suffer without water, food and heating.

Avril Benoit is the Executive Director of Medical Humanitarian Group, Doctors Without Borders. Good to see you. You know, staff from your organization had to flee the hospital leaving patients behind. Where are they now? And are they safe?

AVRIL BENOIT, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, DOCTORS WITHOUT BORDERS: Nowhere in Gaza is safe, unfortunately, in what the negotiator we heard just a minute ago referred to as collateral damage includes the 28,000 people who have been killed in this collective punishment of Gaza. Our staff flee where they can. Even those who have followed all the instructions made their way to Rafah such as a doctor colleague of mine, who is a mother, who saw an airstrike on the building next door to where they were sheltering in Rafah, which was supposedly the most safe location, Rafah in the south.

And she saw body parts strewn in the yard. She's so worried that the similar fate could befall the building that she and her large family are sheltered and that she's written the names of her children on their arms for fear that they could find themselves under a collapsed building dead or alive, and she wants them to be identified. So you can imagine that for our colleagues, not only worrying about the patients that they've left behind, but also their own family members, and not to mention their own calling, really, to be able to work, to work in these hospitals to treat people. Everything is shattered right now.

WHITFIELD: I mean, it sounds like people are at wit's end. I mean, it sounds like they are based on what you're describing, they're preparing themselves for death, as opposed to seeing any hopeful situation where they may survive this and live.

BENOIT: Well, look, I think there's always a, you know, a measure of hope. And that's why we continue to call for a ceasefire. It's a unanimous voice of humanitarian workers, because for a start, you cannot deliver aid, you cannot help people who have been cut off from food, water and medicine. And now, even the functioning hospitals that remain as they one by one are militarized by the Israeli forces and this looming threat of a full scale ground invasion in Rafah. There is still, for us a very urgent call for a ceasefire is the only way through this to allow not only people to survive under very difficult circumstances, such as they are with their homes having been destroyed to a large extent, but also to be able to scale up the humanitarian assistance that everyone understands is absolutely necessary and urgent.

WHITFIELD: What are your people saying about Hamas members who are either taken out or the IDF says they identify Hamas members who are, you know, taking harbor in the very hospitals where many civilians are seeking refuge and at the same time, also getting medical care for their loved ones? What are your folks telling you about out that scenario, that's the justification for some of the IDF strategy. What are -- what are your people telling you?

[12:55:07]

BENOIT: Yes. It's not a very satisfying one, because we have not received any independently verified credible evidence that anything would justify the kinds of attacks that have happened to the functioning medical facilities in Gaza. We don't see it. What we see are hospitals full of patients also full of their family members, because families are afraid of being separated amidst all of this. And that's why it was so dramatic when there was the announcement that Nasser hospital was about to be next.

And so, you know, under all circumstances, anywhere in the world, Doctors Without Borders does not work in militarized hospitals or facilities. We wouldn't tolerate that because we understand the risks that it poses to the hospital. And that's one of the reasons we have continued to stay because what we're really seeing are our patients, our civilians, our wounded people who, under all laws of war and common sense and decency, should have a right to receive medical attention in a war.

WHITFIELD: Avril Benoit, thank you so much for your time, all the best to you and all of your colleagues.

BENOIT: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: We'll be right back.

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