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Grief And Outrage Over Alexei Navalny's Prison Death; Trump Ordered To Pay Over $350 Million In Business Empire Scheme; Judge To Decide Whether To Disqualify DA Fani Willis; Israel Releases Names Of UNRWA Employees Allegedly Involved In October 7 Attacks; Zelenskyy At Munich Conference As U.S. Aid Stalled In Congress; Prince Harry Speaks After King Charles III's Diagnosis. Aired 4-5a ET
Aired February 17, 2024 - 04:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Do you think this will lead to a snowball of other towns and cities on the front lines collapsing?
Or what do you expect for the next months?
ANNA COREN, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: You've been watching CNN's Christiane Amanpour speak with Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy in Munich. My colleague, Kim Brunhuber, will take over. Stay with CNN.
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KIM BRUNHUBER, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Welcome to all of you watching us here in the United States, Canada and around the world. I'm Kim Brunhuber.
Ahead on CNN NEWSROOM, world leaders react to the death of Kremlin critic Alexei Navalny. Find out who U.S. President Joe Biden is blaming directly.
As news of Navalny's deaths settles at the Munich Security Conference, European leaders look at how they may have to defend themselves with the less engaged United States, especially if Donald Trump becomes president again.
And speaking of the former president, he's lashing out at the massive fines imposed by a court over fraudulent business practices, amid questions over who will run the family business.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Live from Atlanta this is CNN NEWSROOM with Kim Brunhuber.
BRUNHUBER: From Washington to Berlin and Moscow, there's strong reaction around the world to the death of Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny. Some people are showing support for him at memorials like these in Russia and many parts of Europe.
Russia's prison system says Navalny collapsed and died on Friday. Many members of the international community are blaming Russian president Vladimir Putin for Navalny's death. Former U.S. president Donald Trump has been silent.
But current President Joe Biden isn't holding back. He's pointing a finger directly at Russia's leader. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Make no mistake. Make no mistake.
Putin is responsible for Navalny's death. And as people across Russia and around the world are mourning Navalny today, because he was so many things that Putin was not. He was brave. He was principled. He was dedicated to building a Russia, where the rule of law existed. He knew it was a cause worth fighting for and obviously even dying for.
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BRUNHUBER: CNN's chief global affairs correspondent Matthew Chance has more on Navalny's life and death.
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MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In his last appearance, just a day before he died, Alexei Navalny seemed in good spirits, even teasing the judge at the court hearing where he appeared by video conference.
"Your honor, I will give you my personal account number so that you can send me money from your huge salary," he said. "I'm running out, thanks to your decisions," he joked.
Prison authorities say he collapsed on Friday after his daily walk. State media says emergency teams called to his penal colony tried to revive him for more than half an hour. Still, Navalny's family are waiting for confirmation of his death.
YULIA NAVALNAYA, ALEXEI NAVALNY'S WIFE (through translator): If it is true, I want Putin and all his staff, everybody around him, his government, his friends, I want them to know that they will be punished for what they have done to our country, to my family and to my husband.
CHANCE (voice-over): But Navalny's demise sends yet another chilling message to the Russian opposition. A few braving restrictions to lay flowers amid widespread shock, the country's most prominent opposition figure has been silenced.
"What calms me is that, if he really died, his death will make his supporters a bit stronger," says this woman in St. Petersburg.
"When I learned about it, I was horrified and cried," says another. "Now I just want to scream," she adds.
But with Russian presidential elections just weeks away, Vladimir Putin seems unfazed by the death of another prominent critic. He's visiting an industrial facility in the city of Chelyabinsk, leaving his spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, to field the awkward question.
"According to the rules, all necessary investigations are underway," he told reporters.
Later, suggesting that much international reaction to the death is unjustified.
But for many, blame is already being laid at the Kremlin's door. Pro Navalny protests are banned in Russia. But in neighboring Georgia and elsewhere, mourners are turning out to pay their respects and to voice their anger.
[04:05:07]
"Putin die," they're chanting. But it is his critics, it seems, whose lives are snatched away -- Matthew Chance, CNN, London.
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BRUNHUBER: And former CNN Moscow bureau chief Nathan Hodge joins us now from London.
So just now at the Munich Security Conference, Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy said that Russian president Vladimir Putin sent a clear message with Navalny's death.
What message do you think that might be?
NATHAN HODGE, FORMER CNN MOSCOW BUREAU CHIEF: Well, Kim, first of all, I think it's still very early days. We're still getting more details and learning more and there are many, many questions that remain about the circumstances of Navalny's death.
But clearly, as we've already reported, President Biden has laid blame squarely on President Putin for the death of Navalny. Many other critics are basically pointing out that, whether or not it's an order that's direct from the top, you know, Russia's prison system is basically set up to crush people.
And Navalny has endured some of the worst of Russia's prisons. He was based -- he was jailed in a prison above the Arctic Circle. Yet somehow he managed to maintain his famous and very cutting sense of humor while he was in prison.
In fact, one of his most recent posts before his death was joking about the weather there as well as the awful music that was being blared over the PA system.
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BRUNHUBER: -- security conference where President Zelenskyy is speaking. So we will come back to you in a minute. I just want to go to President Zelenskyy at the Munich Security Conference.
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VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: -- that our Ukraine, yes.
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AMANPOUR: Mr. President, you are outmanned and you always say this, there are a huge, huge advantage in terms of numbers of Russian forces. There is a question of potentially you signing a law or changing the draft and the conscription and lowering the age from 27 to 25.
Are you going to do that?
ZELENSKYY: (Speaking foreign language).
BRUNHUBER: All right. We don't have translation there for President Zelenskyy's comments. I want to bring Nathan Hodge back, our former CNN Moscow reporter.
Thanks for sticking with us here. So we were talking about Navalny, his death. Much is being made of the timing of his death. We have the start of the Munich Security Conference in a week, in which Donald Trump made those comments about letting Russia do what it wants to allies.
A fawning Putin interview with American personality Tucker Carlson and Republicans yet again failing to pass aid to Ukraine.
What do you make the timing?
HODGE: Well, Kim, I think it's also important to point out another event that's coming up that's very important for Vladimir Putin's calendar. And that's the election in the middle of March, in which he's quite, quite certain to sail to reelection.
It's in fact a little bit difficult to call it an election because it's been cleared of all kind of meaningful competition and people such as Navalny or candidates who might have opposed the war in Ukraine and the full-scale invasion had been barred from running.
So this is -- the death of Navalny is coming at a time when it's become increasingly clear that there's absolutely no space for dissenting voices in Russia.
So that the election that we're going to be seeing in a month is going to be a little bit more like a sort of a plebiscite, a way that the Kremlin can show the legitimacy of Putin's rule and the backing of the Russian population, despite the fact that Russian civil society has been absolutely crushed over the past two decades.
And Russia's free press has been essentially muzzled. And it was one of the reasons why, you know, a figure like Navalny was so critical because not only was he instrumental in getting thousands of Russians to go out on the streets, you know, risking arrest to protest against what they saw as corruption and kleptocracy.
He was deeply involved in what we call investigative journalism. And that was digging into the affairs of Russia's top officials, including President Putin himself.
[04:10:04]
And laying bare what he saw as a corrupt and kleptocratic regime. So certainly, I mean, this is making the political landscape in Russia look a lot more monochromatic, Kim.
BRUNHUBER: Yes, and when we began you and I were speaking about President Zelenskyy reacting to Navalny's death, we do have a clip of him speaking just recently at the Munich Security Conference. I want to play that for you.
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ZELENSKYY: Putin kills whoever he wants, be it an opposition leader or anyone else who seems at the target exactly to him. After the murder of Alexei Navalny, it's absolute to perceive Putin at a supposedly legitimate head of a Russian state.
And here's a thug who maintains power through corruption and violence, coming to his so-called integration (ph), shaking his hand, considering him an equal means to disdain the very nature of political power.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRUNHUBER: All right, so obviously we have President Zelenskyy hoping that Navalny's death might lead to more support for Ukraine and its war against Russia. We heard President Biden sort of speaking about how hopefully this will lead to more support for arms for Ukraine in Congress.
Do you think this will lead to a change in position?
HODGE: Well, Kim, I think this is -- the death of Navalny, I think, gives ammunition to the Ukrainian argument that there is really no serious negotiation to be had with Putin, regardless of whether one thinks that there must be a negotiated end to the war and how that would happen.
But this gets to the larger point of what the Russian world looks like or what kind of Russia one could expect.
And what we've seen already from our sort of own experience reporting the war in Ukraine, the intense violence that was inflicted on Ukrainians who were in Russian occupied territory, as well as the decade of experience of the Ukrainian peninsula, of Crimea under Russian rule, which is essentially a police state.
So I think that this will focus many minds when it comes to getting back to the arguments about both financing, increasing aid, delivering aid to Ukraine as well as sharpening, I think, or bringing into much sharper focus exactly what kind of system Russian president Vladimir Putin presides over -- Kim.
BRUNHUBER: Really great getting your analysis on what's going on here. Nathan Hodge in London. Thanks so much.
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BRUNHUBER: The likely 2024 U.S. presidential nominee for the Republican Party was hit with a massive financial penalty Friday in New York. Donald Trump must pay nearly $355 million for inflating the value of his properties.
He and his adult sons are also temporarily banned from holding certain positions in New York businesses. Both of Trump's sons also face fines, along with a former employee. But their fines are much smaller.
Now the ruling comes after a jury ordered Trump to pay more than $83 million to writer E. Jean Carroll last month. CNN's Kara Scannell looks back at the trial.
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KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A devastating blow to Trump's reputation as a successful businessman after a New York Supreme Court judge ordered him and his company to pay nearly $355 million.
Barring him from serving as a company director in the city where he made his billions, where his name is plastered on skyscrapers for three years.
LETITIA JAMES, NEW YORK ATTORNEY GENERAL: Donald Trump may have authored the "Art of the Deal" but he perfected the art of the steal. This long running fraud was intentional, egregious, illegal.
SCANNELL (voice-over): Friday's ruling follows a nearly three month long trial filled with dramatic moments. Trump himself often chose to attend court, though he was only required to be there when he testified.
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: This trial was railroaded and fast tracked. This trial could have been brought years ago but they waited until I was right in the middle of my campaign.
SCANNELL (voice-over): He frequently attacked Judge Engoron, as well as his clerk and the New York attorney general in the hallways of the courthouse and on Truth Social.
PRES. TRUMP: This judge is a very partisan judge, with a person who's very partisan sitting alongside of him. We're wasting our time on this trial, with a Democrat judge from the clubhouses, it's a disgrace.
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We're going to be here for months with a judge that already made up his mind. We have a rogue judge who rules that properties are worth a tiny fraction - one one-hundredth - a tiny fraction of what they actually are.
A Trump hater, the only one that hates Trump more is his associate up there.
SCANNELL (voice-over): His attacks even resulted in the judge issuing a gag order, restricting him from going after the court staff, which Trump then violated twice and was fined a total of $15,000.
DONALD TRUMP JR., CO-DEFENDANT: I thought they were going to go somewhere but I think they understand that they have nothing as it relates to a case other than, I guess, an overzealous attorney general who would destroy all of New York business by going after transactions where there are no victims, I guess, other than herself.
SCANNELL (voice-over): The former president and his adult sons all testified during the trial, which began in October last year. During his testimony, Donald Trump frequently clashed with Judge Engoron in the courtroom. The judge warning Trump's lawyer, Chris Kise, to control your client and threatened to remove him.
PRES. TRUMP: Thank you very much.
SCANNELL (voice-over): Outside Mar-a-Lago Friday after the ruling, Donald Trump continued those attacks.
PRES. TRUMP: These are radical left Democrats. They're lunatics and it's election interfering, so I just want to thank you for being here. We'll appeal. We'll be successful. I think because, frankly, if we're not successful, New York State is gone.
People are moving out of New York State. And because of this, they're going to move out at a much faster rate.
SCANNELL: The judge ordering Donald Trump to pay nearly $355 million plus another $100 million in interest. With other legal judgments against him, he is owing more than $540 million, a big bill for the former president -- Kara Scannell, CNN, New York.
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BRUNHUBER: So as you just heard, Trump is already vowing to appeal. But that won't keep him from shelling out any money. To appeal, he'd have to come up with the full judgment amount or secure a bond using assets as collateral. CNN senior legal analyst, Elie Honig, says the ruling's language will make appeals difficult.
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ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: This opinion was written by this judge, absolutely with appeal in mind. It's meticulous. He goes through every property, every transaction and he puts things in the appeal that he knows he cannot be reversed on.
For example, assessing how credible a witness is.
Did I believe this witness or not?
That is uniquely up to the trial judge. You can't be reversed on that. So Donald Trump certainly will appeal. I think he's got next to no chance of winning on it.
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BRUNHUBER: Lawyer Jeffrey Toobin discussed Trump's fine and how it connects to the scale of his fraud here. Here he is.
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JEFFREY TOOBIN, LAWYER AND AUTHOR: The problem is that, because he lied about his assets, he got lower interest rates to have to pay it back. So he benefited to the tune of millions of dollars by lying to the banks and to other authorities about how much money he had. He has never acknowledged that.
But this damage award is because he got all this benefit, millions of dollars, lower interest rates because of the lies that he told.
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BRUNHUBER: The hearing on Donald Trump's Georgia election subversion case has ended for now. A judge will decide whether Fulton County district attorney, Fani Willis, should be disqualified from the case because of alleged financial misconduct in her personal relationship with lead prosecutor Nathan Wade.
More now from CNN's Nick Valencia in Atlanta.
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QUESTION: Can you tell us why you were late today?
NICK VALENCIA, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Terrence Bradley was supposed to be a star witness for defense attorneys trying to disqualify Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis from the Donald Trump election interference case.
But on Friday, Wade's former law partner and divorce attorney couldn't provide details lets just show Willis and Nathan Wade were lying about the extent of the romantic relationship.
TERRENCE BRADLEY, NATHAN WADE'S FORMER LAW PARTNER & DIVORCE ATTORNEY: I have no personal knowledge of when it actually happened. I was not there I do not have any personal knowledge.
VALENCIA: Attorney-client privilege, a major hurdle for the defense, especially after Judge Scott McAfee ruled Bradley could not be asked about what privileged conversations he had with Wade about his relationship.
ASHLEIGH MERCHANT, DEFENSE ATTORNEY FOR MIKE ROMAN: I want to talk about privilege, I'm happy to ask him the substance of the question.
VALENCIA: Yet, one defense attorney managed to introduce a text exchange with Bradley in 2023 about the Wade-Willis romance.
BRADLEY: So what I have is a text message from you saying, oh, my god, Nathan took Fani on a trip to Napa and pay for with his firm.
MERCHANT: OK, continue reading.
BRADLEY: And you said, is he dumb (ph)?
VALENCIA: Also testifying Friday, Fani Willis' father, backing up her heated testimony from Thursday when she said she always keeps cash on hand.
FLOYD WILLIS, FANI WILLIS' FATHER: I've always kept cash. You know and I've told my daughter, you keep six months worth of cash, always.
VALENCIA: On both days, money was center stage because defense attorneys are trying to prove that Willis somehow benefited financially from a relationship with Wade through gifts and vacations that Wade paid for with money he earned on the case.
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FANI WILLIS, FULTON COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: We went out multiple times. That probably went to the level of more than $100. But if we're doing tit-for-tat like that, I probably paid for as many meals as he paid for. And so, I did not receive any gifts from him.
VALENCIA: And Willis and Wade both maintain the relationship began only after Wade took the job of special prosecutor. Willis'' father testified he didn't know about the relationship until the rest of the world found out and only met him region certainly.
FANI WILLIS: I did not meet Nathan Wade until 2023.
VALENCIA: In a surprise turn, Willis did not take the stand again on Friday, her team believing they had enough to beat back efforts to this qualify her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The state has no further questions for Ms. Willis.
VALENCIA: The judge has signaled that these hearings will continue sometime in the next week. When they do eventually wrap up, he's going to allow the state and defense attorneys to write replies in written legal briefs, which means that it could be weeks before we know the conclusion of these hearings altogether.
These allegations have already led to a delay in this case. Prior to them surfacing, the DA appeared to be on track for an August start to this trial. For now, all of that has been put on hold -- Nick Valencia, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE) BRUNHUBER: Still ahead, how Alexei Navalny's death is a symbol of a changed Russia as we follow the latest reaction from around the world.
Plus reports of Palestinians fleeing Rafah over fears of Israel's planned ground offensive. The latest on the war in Gaza in a live report coming up next, please stay with us.
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BRUNHUBER: Displaced Palestinians are reportedly fleeing Gaza's southernmost city of Rafah, where they had been seeking shelter.
The U.N. Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs says many are heading north to Deir al-Balah because of intensified airstrikes on Rafah and recent statements by Israeli officials about an impending ground offensive.
U.N.'s relief agency estimates 84 percent of health facilities in Gaza have been affected by attacks since the start of the war and more than 70 percent of all civilian infrastructure has been destroyed or severely damaged.
Meanwhile, the International Court of Justice has decided against ordering additional provisional measures for Gaza. South Africa had asked the court to consider whether the tense situation in Rafah called for new measures. The ICJ says the current order in place is sufficient, as it covers hostilities in Gaza as a whole.
All right, want to go live now to CNN's Scott McLean in Istanbul.
So Scott, first, what's the latest on Rafah?
SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, good morning. It seems like people in Rafah are starting to see the writing on the wall. They are crammed in there, 1.3 million of them. This U.N. agency that you mentioned says that there is more than half of the population of Gaza crammed into less than in 20 percent of its territory.
And many of them are leaving because of, as you mentioned, intensifying airstrikes there and also the statements that we are hearing from Israeli officials, this promise that they have made, to go into Rafah at some point in the future.
The problem for these people who will be fleeing north, who are trying to find any measure of safety is that they'll need to go past Khan Yunis. This is a city in the south, where there is active fighting taking place right now. That's where the Nasser Hospital is under siege right now by Israeli forces.
And they're headed toward Deir al-Balah, where there is also fighting on the ground taking place to the east of the city. And of course, they're not going to be safe even in the city from Israeli airstrikes.
It was last week that 12 people, all from the same family, some of them children, were killed in one single Israeli airstrike. Israel has said that it's not going to move into Rafah militarily until it's able to evacuate the civilian population in Rafah.
But the White House is questioning whether that's even remotely realistic or remotely possible. And of course, there's also plenty of pressure piling up on the Israelis not to go into Rafah, saying that it would be a catastrophe.
But Israel has not, throughout this war, been so keen to take advice from its allies. And so it's really anyone's guess as to what or exactly when we'll see action in Rafah.
BRUNHUBER: Yes, exactly. And then Scott, Israel's government again, pointing the finger at the U.N. agency for Palestinian refugees. So take us through exactly what they've been saying.
MCLEAN: Yes, so Israel has made some pretty eye-opening statements. Here are some pretty eye-opening claims. They say that, of the 13,000 employees of UNRWA, the United Nations Relief and Works Agency, set up in 1948, specifically for Palestinian refugees.
They say that some 1,500 of them around are members of Hamas. They didn't give any evidence to support that. They also released the names and photos of the 12 employees that it says were involved in the October 7 attack.
For 10 of those people, that listed photos, names, the accusations against them but it didn't provide any evidence. But for two of them, it actually released screenshots, purportedly showing them inside of -- inside of Israel on October 7.
These are images that CNN is not in any kind of a position to verify. But the images or the accusations being made against these two UNRWA employees, one of them is a math teacher, one of them is a social worker.
Against the social worker, the accusation is that he helped kidnap an Israeli soldier and was involved in transferring weapons and trucks; against the math teacher, the accusation is that he was involved in logistics and also received and held hostages.
UNRWA is investigating all of this. It's not commenting. But for some context here, this organization would annually give to Israel the names and details of all of its employees to Israel. And it says that none of these names were ever flagged prior too. So it was not in a position to know any of this.
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And it's also important to know that Israel has, for years and years, taken issue not only with the U.N., claiming that there is broad bias against it, but specifically with UNRWA, saying that it perpetuates the Palestinian refugee issue.
It's also been a lightning rod even outside of the country. President Trump called it irredeemably flawed and cut off funding only to have it restored by President Biden.
Now though that funding has been cut off not only by the United States but many of its biggest backers, putting it in real desperate financial straits at a time when that aid is so, so desperately needed, Kim.
BRUNHUBER: Yes, adding fuel to that controversy. Scott McLean in Istanbul. Thanks so much.
Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy has been speaking at the Munich Security Conference, where leaders have been reacting to the death of Alexei Navalny. Details after the break, stay with us.
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BRUNHUBER: More now on two big stories making headlines around the world.
A judge has ordered former U.S. president Donald Trump to pay more than $350 million for fraudulently inflating the value of his properties. He's vowing to appeal.
And President Joe Biden is one of many Western leaders blaming Vladimir Putin for the death of Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny. Russia's prison service says Navalny lost consciousness and died after a walk.
Navalny's death shocked leaders gathered in Germany for the annual Munich Security Conference, which was expected to focus on Ukraine and the Middle East. Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy took to the stage a few moments ago and spoke with CNN's Christiane Amanpour.
And he said, quote, "Putin murdered another opposition leader."
And he spoke out about Russia's war against Ukraine.
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Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZELENSKYY: That's how long will the world let Russia be like this. This is the main question today. The longer these Russian aggression against the rules-based world order continues, the greater are the changes it provokes."
(END VIDEO CLIP) BRUNHUBER: And joining me now is Garvan Walshe. He's a former foreign policy adviser to the British Conservative Party and founder and CEO of Article7. Garvan also chairs the election watchdog, Unhack Democracy.
Thank you so much for being here with us. So I want to start with the reaction we're seeing to Navalny's death. As I mentioned, you were an adviser to the Conservative Party.
So what would you advise the current British government to do in response to Navalny's death?
GARVAN WALSHE, FORMER FOREIGN POLICY ADVISER, BRITISH CONSERVATIVE PARTY: Look, it's a very serious situation but it's hardly a surprise. I think the most important thing to do is continue to build up the international coalition against Vladimir Putin's regime, support Ukraine as much as possible.
And to strengthen and continue to enforce the economic sanctions that are causing economic problems to Russia right now.
BRUNHUBER: I mean, the timing of his death with the Munich conference starting, no coincidence, do you think?
WALSHE: This was the conference back in 2007, where Putin first announced his intention to challenge the rules-based international order. So it's not really a surprise that he's using this to poke the West in the eye again.
He's doing it at a time where the West has demonstrated significant weakness. We seem to be unable to get aid to Ukraine, because speaker Mike Johnson is not holding a Vote.
Now the European Union took more time to get its aid in order because Viktor Orban decided to block it. But clearly he sees a moment of weakness. This is also the moment that Ukrainian troops have withdrawn from Avdiivka. That he's using that format for propaganda then.
BRUNHUBER: On that perception of weakness and the conference itself, as we've been reporting, one of the main subjects has been Donald Trump's comments, encouraging Russia to do what it likes to NATO allies that don't pay enough.
I mean, the Biden administration has been trying to do damage control with its allies there.
Has that been working, has anyone reassured, do you think?
WALSHE: Look, I think European leaders are meeting in Munich for the first time when the withdrawal of the American security umbrella has become a serious possibility. The whole point of NATO is to say, if you're attacked the smallest European countries, you're picking a fight with America.
Trump's now saying, well, I'm not so sure about that. It's not really about the money, it's about his disdain for NATO and collective security. He doesn't like it. He doesn't get it.
So smaller European countries and even larger European countries have very serious questions to ask over the next few months.
How are they going to prepare for the possibility of Trump becoming POTUS and weakening the NATO security guarantee?
BRUNHUBER: You know, Trump's comments, they did highlight a painful truth, I guess. Europe is nowhere near ready to defend itself without the U.S. And you've argued that NATO needs to develop contingency plans to defend against Russia with little or no American involvement. I mean, that's a monumental challenges.
Is that realistic?
WALSHE: Well, that's right because at the moment, all the plans assume America is going to be fully involved in defending Europe from any kind of Russian attacks. So what equipment is in the right place matters.
Whether we can use American strategic enablers like airlift capacity. We need to start thinking about what happens. Not if Trump can withdraw from NATO without legislation. But he can refuse to send troops into battle.
So how is Europe able to organize its own defense?
Europe has the overall capacity. There's plenty of equipment. It has plenty of soldiers under arms, millions of them. But it needs to be able to know how it would put those -- put those into the field if America is not available. It radically changes the kind of military planning Europe needs.
BRUNHUBER: Yes, planning is the key because some argue that spending alone won't solve the problem. And some NATO officials worry that, even if they spend big, a sudden splurge could make things more complicated if it's not coordinated among the allies.
Do you see the will and the ability right now to get that done?
WALSHE: Right now, Europe needs to concentrate on getting its ammunition production up. There are certain countries like Finland that have moved to around the clock ammunition production but most other countries haven't.
That's one of the reasons the Ukrainians are also short of shells right now because we haven't got our act together. We haven't moved our industry onto a war footing. If there's anything good that comes out of Trump's statement to be a wakeup goal that we've really -- we really got to move closer to a war economy. This isn't a huge shift.
[04:40:00]
WALSHE: But it's a medium-size shift that would enable us to defend ourselves and defend the Ukrainians. BRUNHUBER: All right, we'll have to leave it there. Really appreciate
your analysis. Garvan Walshe in Brussels, thanks so much.
WALSHE: Thank you very much. Bye-bye.
BRUNHUBER: All right.
So the fighting in Ukraine, as we mentioned, a top Ukrainian military commander says, pulling his forces out of the city of Avdiivka in the Donetsk region is the only correct solution.
Alexander Tarnavskyi said in a Telegram post that his forces are under constant bombardment from Russian troops, which launched some 20 airstrikes and more than 150 artillery attacks.
In the last 24 hours alone, Tarnavskyi says, Vladimir Putin's forces are, quote, "practically erasing the city from the face of the Earth."
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BRUNHUBER (voice-over): Russia says dissident Alexei Navalny collapsed and died in prison. But many people think he was murdered. We will get a Russian expert's opinion next on CNN NEWSROOM. Stay with us.
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BRUNHUBER: Mourners are remembering Alexei Navalny around the world, laying flowers in Moscow for the man who was one of Putin's most vocal critics. His death saddened many people though some say it wasn't a surprise. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): It's a common human reaction when someone dies, especially in prison. It's not good -- locked up, no freedom, no family, no wife. Of course, one can only express grief. It shouldn't be like that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): It was expected, I guess. All the news said he was being kept in bad conditions that weren't fit to live in.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Of course, Navalny is a symbol. First of all, a symbol of opposition, a symbol of hope for some brighter future for Russia. And there's a feeling that, with his death, this hope dies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRUNHUBER: Makeshift memorials have appeared throughout the country like this one in St. Petersburg, where some people say they're devastated by the loss.
[04:45:03]
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): When I learned about it, I was horrified. I cried and I did not know what to do. I wanted to scream and I want to scream now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRUNHUBER: Authorities have warned the public against taking part in protests. And some Russians have been detained for turning out anyway. But that hasn't stopped people in other countries from gathering in the streets to pay their respects to Navalny.
In Georgia, which was once part of the Soviet Union, more than 500 people gathered in Tbilisi.
In Berlin, protesters gathered outside the Russian embassy, holding up anti-Putin signs and chanting, "Putin is a killer."
Similar scenes in Paris where it wasn't lost on some demonstrators, how freely they could speak out against Putin and how dangerous that can be inside Russia.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Today we saw what happens with the Russians before publicly claim that the -- against Putin. And that's why there are no manifestation against Putin, like, oh, well, why those Russians do not protest?
Today we have the perfect answer on why.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRUNHUBER: All right, I want to bring in Alexander Baunov, senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.
Thanks so much for being here with us. So first, your reaction to Navalny's death.
Do you believe he was murdered?
ALEXANDER BAUNOV, SENIOR FELLOW, CARNEGIE ENDOWMENT FOR INTERNATIONAL PEACE: I think so. At any case, the authorities are responsible for his death. And then imagine Putin. Remember, Putin was praising in his recent -- in famous interview with Carlson.
He was praising a person who killed a political refugee in Europe for patriotic reasons. For him, the debt, often, opposition are (ph) -- is the same sort of a patriotic killing can be braved (ph). So the signal is clear.
BRUNHUBER: You've written that his death is a symbol of a changed Russia. Explain what you mean by that. BAUNOV: Absolutely. Less than 10 years ago, when Navalny was sentenced for relatively (INAUDIBLE) prison term of two years for economic charges, because before that the Russian regime, these guys took political persecution with economic charges.
There are people in Moscow (INAUDIBLE) street it and the prosecutors of -- the prosecutor office started the procedure to release him on -- to really scheme not free but on suspended sentence. Now it's not possible to imagine.
It cannot imagine the people taking on the street and having such an influence on political decision. Then before that, before the war, before the recent years, Russian political opponents of the regime where prosecuted mostly on -- in disguise and political -- not purely political reasons.
But the reasons of embezzlement, for the reasons of something related to their economic crimes, now there's -- the sentences are openly political. The most popular extra mission justifying terrorism, justifying, I don't know, Nazism.
And what else?
Yes, extremism is no sparkler (ph). And the present, the terms are like 2-3 times longer than before.
BRUNHUBER: So it's a signal of increased persecution. I'm wondering what this means now for the opposition in Russia, such as it is. I was struck by the clip that we played from the woman just a few minutes ago, who said, with Navalny's death, hope dies.
I mean, is that, do you think, a popular sentiment across the country?
BAUNOV: The mood is very marked (ph). If you follow the Russian social media or just talk to Russians, they are shocked almost the same way that they were shocked when they -- when Putin started invasion of Ukraine.
Of course everybody understood Navalny is in danger in that he most probably will spend in prison many years to come. But still just belonging to a next-generation, being so strong, so -- with a good sense of humor, he embodied for so many Russians their political future.
They saw in him sort of Russian Nelson Mandela that will come after out of the prison and will feel great will build a new Russia after dictatorship falls (ph). Now this hope has died in prison. It changed the mood immensely.
[04:50:00]
BRUNHUBER: Sadly, no Mandela-like ending for Alexei Navalny. We will have to leave it there, Alexander Baunov. Thank you so much for speaking with us. Really appreciate it.
(CROSSTALK) BRUNHUBER: Pleasure.
Now one quick programming note. Be sure to watch "Navalny," CNN's Oscar winning documentary on the 2020 assassination attempt of Alexei Navalny as the investigations begin into his death. And that airs Saturday, 09:00 pm in New York; Sunday at 10:00 am in Hong Kong, right here on CNN. We'll be right back
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BRUNHUBER: Well, one of the world's most sought after musical instruments has finally made the long and winding road back to its rightful owner, Sir Paul McCartney. McCartney's legendary Hofner bass guitar is one of the defining images of Beatlemania. But it was stolen from the back of a van in London more than 50 years ago.
The search for the piece of rock 'n' roll history was jumpstarted by The Lost Bass Project in 2018. And after sifting through more than 100 leads, they finally traced the stolen guitar to a town on the English coast. McCartney says he's incredibly grateful to all those involved.
[04:55:00]
BRUNHUBER: Prince Harry says he jumped on a plane for London as soon as he found out that his father, King Charles, had been diagnosed with cancer earlier this month. He spoke about his father and the royal family during an interview on the U.S. daytime show, "Good Morning, America."
Here's more from CNN's Max Foster.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MAX FOSTER, CNN LONDON CORRESPONDENT: Nothing particularly new in this interview but it is the first time we've heard from Prince Harry since his father's diagnosis of cancer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRINCE HARRY, DUKE OF SUSSEX: Look, I love my family. The fact that I was -- the fact that I was able to get on a plane and go and see him and spend any time with him, I'm grateful for that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've also found that in my own life that, sort of, an illness in the family can have a galvanizing or sort of reunifying effect for a family.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that possible in this case?
PRINCE HARRY: I'm sure. I'm -- for all these families, I say on a day-to-day basis, again, the strength of the family unit coming together, I think any illness, any sickness brings families together.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: One thing Harry did say is that he has considered applying for American citizenship. He may not get it, of course. And it's not entirely unexpected because his family is based there. He did talk as well about future visits to the U.K. So he is retaining those ties -- Max Foster, CNN, London.
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BRUNHUBER: The first time ever, water molecules have been detected on the surface of asteroids. The findings were published in the "Planetary Science Journal" and the discovery could lend credence to the theory that asteroids crashing into our planet may have helped deliver water and other elements to early Earth.
All right, I'm Kim Brunhuber. Ill be back with more CNN NEWSROOM in just a moment. Please do stay with us.
