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Voting Underway in Michigan, First Battleground Primary; Soon, Biden Talks Government Funding, Ukraine With Congressional Leaders; Today, Key Witness May Be Back on Stand in Hearing to Disqualify D.A. from Georgia Election Subversion Case. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired February 27, 2024 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[10:00:00]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everybody. You are live in the CNN Newsroom.

It's primary day in Michigan, and a key test for Biden and Trump could today's results reveal warning signs for the general election campaign.

Plus, President Biden will meet with congressional leaders at the White House as a partial government shutdown is just four days away.

And later today, an emergency hearing in Georgia as Trump's allies push to disqualify District Attorney Fani Willis in the election subversion case.

I'm Jim Acosta in Washington. This is the news right now.

Right now, voting is underway in Michigan, and today's critical primary President Biden, former President Donald Trump, aren't facing one another just yet, but the primaries results have huge implications for the general election campaign.

CNN's Dianne Gallagher joins us from a polling place in Waterford, Michigan. Dianne, what are the voters saying?

DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, Jim, it has been relatively slow at this particular precinct today. And part of that could be due to the fact that, according to the secretary of state's office, more than 1 million Michiganders cast ballots during early and absentee voting period. So, a lot of people already got their primary preference voting out of the way.

Now, I have to stay in this sort of little boxed, taped off area here. But you can see we have a couple of voters here. They basically come in, choose Republican or Democratic ballot, and then cast their choice.

Now, things that we're going to be looking at here in Michigan, of course, on the Republican side, there are 55 delegates. And because of some complications with the party, the majority of those are actually going to be allocated during another period as the national party rules and also some state party infighting have suggested they're going to be doing it at caucusing and other meetings.

We're going to be taking a look, even though Donald Trump is polling far ahead of Nikki Haley here, whether or not she can chip away at any of that support and overperform some of that polling.

Now, on the Democratic side, there were 140 delegates, the majority of which will be allocated based on today's results.

And what we're looking at in Michigan is this campaign to get voters to choose uncommitted over President Joe Biden as a way to send a message to him from progressive, young and out of American voters that they want him to call for a permanent and immediate ceasefire in Gaza.

Now, people have been voting uncommitted in Michigan for years. And if they cast that ballot, it doesn't necessarily mean they support this campaign, but they've definitely laid claim on it. We spoke with a man today who chose a Democratic ballot and also voted uncommitted.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GALLAGHER: Which primary ballot did you choose the Republican, or the Democrat?

JOE KAPELCZAK, MICHIGAN DEMOCRATIC VOTER: Democrat.

GALLAGHER: And can you tell me who you voted for?

KAPELCZAK: Uncommitted.

GALLAGHER: Why did you vote uncommitted?

KAPELCZAK: I just wanted to.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GALLAGHER: Now, I pressed him on whether or not this had to do with the president's policy on Israel's war in Gaza. He told me that it was an issue that he had with a lot of the administration's actions and policies, didn't want to go any further than that, Jim.

I will tell you that the organizers of this vote-uncommitted campaign say that their goal is about 10,000 votes, but, again, many people vote-uncommitted in Michigan for many reasons, but they have laid claim to that and will likely claim those votes no matter what.

ACOSTA: All right, Dianne Gallagher. I hope they told people to vote in Michigan. Today is the primary day, correct? Is that --

GALLAGHER: It is, but so many people voted early. Again, this is the first time they've had those consecutive early voting in-person dates and more than a million people did take advantage of it. So, the hope is that so many people just got it out of the way early because they were so excited.

ACOSTA: Maybe that's what it is. All right, Dianne Gallagher, thank you very much. I appreciate it.

Join me now is Democratic Strategist James Carville, who served as the lead strategist on Bill Clinton's 1992 presidential campaign.

James, I won't get into Dianne Gallagher's (INAUDIBLE). There weren't a lot of people in that gymnasium. I think there were more posters of the kids on the wall there than there were voters actually in that voting location. Maybe it'll pick up as the day goes on.

But, you know, Dianne was talking about this uncommitted vote in Michigan because of the, you know, the war in Gaza.

[10:05:02]

There are some Democratic activists who are saying they want to see Democrats vote uncommitted instead of for President Biden. What do you think about the concerns about that? Are they well-founded? Is this being blown out of proportion? What do you think?

JAMES CARVILLE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, first of all, congratulations on your new show. I'm honored to be a part of it.

ACOSTA: Thanks, James.

CARVILLE: I think this issue is deep. And I think it's a lot deeper than just progressive advocates or young people or college campuses.

I hope the president can get some kind of ceasefire and take this off the front burner, because frankly, it's damaged politically. It's pretty substantial. And if we get to Chicago at the convention and this thing is still going on, I don't want to think about what's going to happen there.

ACOSTA: Yes. And I guess there's also the concern, James, that the margin could be close enough in Michigan that this could have an impact. Do you buy that? That's something that's been talked about as a concern inside the party.

CARVILLE: You know, I have to see, but it did look like the early vote was impressive. Now, they have a good state party there, the UAW, the unions are very organized. So, that may not be telling us much. I think we're just going to have to wait until they count the ballots tonight and see what it does and make a determination.

But regardless of what happens, this Gaza thing is really tearing the Democratic Party, I'll say tearing it apart, but it certainly there's certainly divisions within the party and a lot of people just don't like this.

ACOSTA: And, James, I have to ask you about. You know, Trump over the last several days, we've heard Trump and his allies say all kinds of outlandish things from Trump saying that black voters are more likely to support him because of his indictments to Steve Bannon saying, you know, the big lie over and over again, that the election was -- the 2020 election was stolen. Do you have any thoughts on how Biden can defeat that? Because, I mean, it has taken hold in the Republican Party, and that is what we're going to be hearing throughout the rest of this campaign.

CARVILLE: My thought is Democrats need to go on offense strong and immediate with reproductive issues front and center and also don't discount book burning.

And just right now, we're winning elections left and right, Jim. We hadn't lost an election since Dobbs. That's a fact. That's an underreported and underappreciated fact. We have a financial advantage now, and I'm a big believer in politics. When you got somebody down, you, you just kicked a living, you know, what out of them.

And I think that's what the White House needs to do and I think Democrats around the country need to jump on this early and tank them. This Alabama ruling is literally insane and they're not paying for it yet. And we're not making them pay for it. And the White House always has somebody ask the Democrats and let's, let's get the microphone in somebody else's face here for a second.

ACOSTA: Yes. And, James, I mean, you've talked about President Biden's age. Other Democrats have talked about the president's age. Last night, he tried to have a little fun with it. He tried to flip the script, went after Trump on this, after Trump appeared to call his wife Mercedes over the weekend, instead of Melania at CPAC. Let's listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: You've got to take a look at the other guy. He's about as old as I am, but he can't remember his wife's name. And, number one -- number two, it's about how old your ideas are. Look, I mean, this is a guy who wants to take us back. He wants to take us back on Roe v. Wade. He wants to take us back on a whole range of issues that were 50, 60 years they've been solid American positions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: James, would you like to see more of that?

CARVILLE: I don't mind talking about taking us back and et cetera. I just -- look, the president's age is age. Everyone knows it. It's certainly not a positive thing, but anything you do to focus on age and not how crazy Trump is or how these wolves at the gate to take away every right that you ever knew to book every -- burn every book you ever liked is a, is a better issue terrain to be on.

But I guess if you do it lightly on late night T.V. It's fine. But we're not going to win the age argument. We're going to win in spite of the age argument is my view.

ACOSTA: Well, I mean, and to that point, James, the president is going to the border on Thursday. Are you glad the president is making that trip? CARVILLE: Well, Jim, not overly. I just was in El Paso for a couple of days, and the view to the Arab, everybody has got to show up, and I guess it shows that he's committed. But he can talk about their torpedoing a border bill that was negotiated by some of the most conservative people in the United States Senate, which sent to Chris Murphy, and how they killed that and called for action. The borders become a giant photo op.

[10:10:02]

And I'm just kind of sensitive to those issues because I know right after a hurricane we have down here, sometimes people show up too early and it distracts resources. I don't think that would be the case. But everybody is -- the border is one of the stations across now. Everybody has got to stop by there.

ACOSTA: Yes, all right. Well, James, thanks for coming on this first week. When we were asked who do we want to get on this first week, James Carville was one of those names at the top of the list. So, we really appreciate you making time for us so we can keep this conversation going. I think we're going to have a lot to talk about this year, so we'll do it again.

CARVILLE: Jim Acosta is on the top of my list of shows I like to go to. Good luck to you, my friend.

ACOSTA: All right. Thanks, James. I appreciate it. Good to see you.

All right, and we'll be following the Michigan primary all day and night with special coverage beginning at 8:00 P.M. on CNN and streaming on Max. A lot to tune in tonight, stay with us for all of this coverage.

Coming up in the next hour, top congressional leaders head to the White House with the possibility of a partial government shutdown just days away.

CNN's Arlette Saenz joins us now from the White House. Arlette, what's the message from the president today?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, this is shaping up to be a consequential meeting on several fronts, and the most immediate pressing issue is that partial government shutdown deadline that is looming on Monday. The president will convene the four top congressional leaders here for a sit-down in the Oval Office as negotiators are still working to try to hammer out some type of agreement.

The White House really believes these types of meetings can be beneficial in trying to move the ball forward in negotiations up on Capitol Hill. But it's not just the government shutdown that is on the top of the president's mind. It is also that issue of Ukraine funding. For months now, Biden has warned the Ukraine soldiers would be severely limited on the battlefield in their war against Russia if they do not get this additional assistance for Ukraine. About $60 billion is what the president has been pushing for. We saw that the Senate passed a funding bill that included aid for Ukraine, Israel and Taiwan. But, so far, House Speaker Mike Johnson has been unwilling to bring this up for a vote. So, that is something that the president will also be pressing the House speaker on today as they meet in just a little bit over an hour here in the Oval Office.

ACOSTA: Yes. Arlette, on Israel, the president is talking about a possible ceasefire in Gaza. What did he say?

SAENZ: Yes. President Biden expressed some optimism that they would be able to reach a temporary ceasefire in order to get hostages out of Gaza. He told reporters this as he stopped at an ice cream shop with Late Night Host Seth Meyers in New York City last night. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Can you give us a sense of when you think that ceasefire will start, sir?

BIDEN: Well I hope by the end of the weekend, I mean, the end of the weekend. At least my national security adviser tells me that we're close, we're close. We're not done yet. And my hope is by next Monday, we'll have a ceasefire.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAENZ: Now, it's unclear why the president mentioned that specific Monday timeframe. Israeli officials have really poured cold water on that, saying that they were surprised the president would give such a timeframe.

We do know that over the weekend, National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan did say that they hoped in the coming days to have a much more firm agreement, a framework for what a hostage deal, what a temporary ceasefire could look like. But it's entirely unclear when exactly that could come together. Of course, officials here are hoping that they could have something before Ramadan begins in early March.

ACOSTA: I think the president has been making it pretty clear he wants to see this process get going.

All right, Arlette Saenz, thank you very much.

Let's bring in Political Commentators Scott Jennings and Karen Finney.

Scott, let's get to this government shutdown. Are we going to see a government shutdown, do you think?

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, it's certainly possible. You know, there's a lot of uncertainty in the Republican Party right now about, frankly, the differences between the Senate and the House and what the two chambers prefer.

I hope they don't because I tend to think these things turn out poorly politically for the Republicans, but we'll see. There are some Republicans in the House would love to see this thing get punted out because of the automatic 1 percent cuts that would be triggered at the end of April. So, still a lot of moving parts this week. I guess hope springs eternal, but certainly room for concern.

ACOSTA: Well, it feels like spring in D.C. I'm wearing a pink tie. I've got my duke mug. He had a great time outside yesterday.

But, Karen, I mean, we're just hearing from Arlette a few moments ago, he's bringing folks over to the White House. That's what presidents do in times like this. How should he navigate this?

KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean, look, the thing he's got on his side is he's got the Republican Senate leader and Schumer and the House Democratic leader, they're all on the same page. It's really Johnson who has -- but the promise he doesn't have any power here because he knows that if he doesn't appease that far right caucus that wants what they want and they want it how they want it, right, they're not willing to negotiate. I mean, it's a little bit like, you know, playing strip poker with nudists.

[10:15:02]

I mean, there's not a way that you're going to win because there's no leverage. I mean, you know, if you think about it, Jeffries has more leverage than Johnson does because any deal that Johnson could get, he's going to need Democrats.

So, the president needs to go into this, you know, he's in a position of strength. So, negotiate from that position of strength and the president knows. Having lived through shutdowns, it's bad for Johnson and bad for Republicans. It's one more time. Here we are in a crisis moment of their making and of Donald Trump's making to some degree.

ACOSTA: Yes, Scott, you never want to play strip poker in D.C. It's just -- this is not the place to do it.

But, you know, to Karen's point, and you were just saying this few moments ago, Scott, that Republicans often get blamed. I mean, they almost entirely get blamed for these shutdowns. But does Mike Johnson have a whole lot of leverage here? Is he kind of a stand-in for Donald Trump?

JENNINGS: Well, he's in a tough spot because he's got a really divided party. You know, he's got like 100, 120 people in his conference that want to govern sort of normally and then he's got a bunch of people that maybe don't want to govern normally. And by normally, I mean, you know, just pass these things and move the process along.

And the margins for the Republicans, as you know, are so slim and they got smaller with the loss of the House seat in New York the other day. So, he really is in a -- he's in a tough bind. And as Karen pointed out, every other leg of the stool here kind of wants to get something done, except for about half of his conference.

ACOSTA: So, should he just dare the Freedom Caucus? I mean, isn't it time to just dare these guys, say, okay, you threw out the last speaker, try to throw me out too?

JENNINGS: I mean, they might and maybe he doesn't want to be thrown out. I mean, I don't know how to fit in with the strip poker analogy. I don't know what article of clothing he's prepared to fling off here. But the thing is he probably doesn't want to lose his job over this. And, of course, it's not clear to me who they would put in after him anyway. So, I mean, tough algebra here.

ACOSTA: Yes. And, Karen, I mean, I do want to go back to the Michigan primary, even though I keep going back to dying Gallagher's live shot. There wasn't anybody in that in that gym, but hopefully the voters will show up.

But, you know, this issue of the uncommitted vote, and Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib, who's been very controversial in Congress, but she has been urging people to vote uncommitted. She's Palestinian-American. And as James Carville was saying a few moments ago, there are Democrats, there are progressives in the party were very fired up on this issue. Could this make a difference? Is this something that the White House going to have to be dealing with tomorrow?

FINNEY: Absolutely. And I think this is going to be -- I mean, it's the one way, I think, people feel that they can actually express how they're feeling in a way that could get the White House's attention.

And I think we have to remember it isn't just young voters and Arab- American voters. It's Muslim American voters. It's African-American voters, particularly young voters who see this as a civil rights issue, a human rights issue.

And our frustrations -- I think that's probably why the president frankly at ice cream yesterday was saying, hey, we're going to try to get a ceasefire, yes, and the next week to try to make people feel like he's making progress.

But here's the problem. The only leverage he really has with Israel is the funding package, is the aid. And people would like to -- there's a group of people who want to see him use that as leverage to push Netanyahu to move more quickly.

ACOSTA: And if he gives Israel the funding, maybe you just don't get the message across.

FINNEY: Right. And that's part of why people are thinking of wanting to vote uncommitted because they want it known that they don't want that either. They want this solved.

And, look, the thing that the White House has to hope for is that, I mean, I would rather have this happen in February than in August, certainly, because you still have time potentially to be in a position where we're helping to rebuild Gaza and rebuild the lives of Palestinian people.

ACOSTA: Right. And James was making the point, you don't want this happening at the DNC convention.

FINNEY: No, you don't.

ACOSTA: Karen, Scott, great to talk to you guys. Thanks a lot. I appreciate it.

This afternoon, emergency hearing in Atlanta courtroom as the effort to disqualify the district attorney, Fani Willis, is picking up some steam. We'll talk about that next.

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[10:20:00]

ACOSTA: A key witness in the Trump team's efforts to get his Georgia election subversion case dismissed could be back on the stand today.

Nick Valencia is outside the courtroom in Fulton County, Georgia. Nick, get us up to speed. Where do things stand?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, good morning, Jim. You remember Terrence Bradley, the former law partner and one-time divorce attorney for Nathan Wade, who's the top prosecutor that's alleged to have had a romantic relationship with Fani Willis, the D.A. here. Bradley testified under oath two weeks ago and there were some questions that he refused to answer because he said they were protected by attorney-client privilege.

But after two days of testimony, there was some sort of earthquake moment, it can be described, when the judge turned to him and said he believed that he may have been misinterpreting privilege the entire time. That resulted in Bradley meeting behind closed doors with the judge yesterday. And after they emerged, it was determined that Bradly would have to get back on the stand and face questioning again.

And here's what Scott McAfee, the judge, said in an email that we obtained, saying, quote, the court believes that the interested parties did not meet their burden of establishing that communications are covered by attorney-client privilege and, therefore, the hearing can resume.

That hearing is expected to resume in a matter of hours, which has confirmed it's expected to start at 2:00 P.M. And Bradley was labeled as the sort of star witness for Defense Attorney Ashley Merchant, who represents Mike Roman.

[10:25:01]

He's the former Trump campaign official. And they were the ones that first brought forward these allegations of what they called an improper relationship between Wade and Willis.

All of this is important, Jim, because if the judge determines that Wade lied about whether or not the relationship started when it did, that could be big problems for him and for the district attorney's office. Jim?

ACOSTA: All right. Nick Valencia, thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

Today, important new CNN reporting on Hunter Biden, the high-stakes sit down scheduled with House members leading the President Biden impeachment inquiry. Tomorrow, the president's son will talk to lawmakers behind closed doors. CNN has learned the Biden legal team secured two critical concessions from Republicans, one, Hunter Biden's deposition will not be videotaped. And, two, a transcript will be released quickly to the public in full. The agreement also nixed any plans for a public hearing.

For more on this, CNN Senior Legal Analyst Elie Honig joins me now. Elie, what do you think? What do you think about this deal that they came up with?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: For Hunter Biden, well, this is a reasonable deal, I think, in both ways.

It's important, Jim, to keep in mind what the stakes are here. So, Hunter Biden will be testifying, and the operating theory that Republicans in the House have had is that the money that Hunter Biden received from foreign companies, including Burisma, somehow made its way to Hunter Biden's father, the president, Joe Biden.

There has been no proof of that today, if anything. The basis on which that theory was founded has now been undercut further, because last week, we learned that an informant who had been telling the FBI that was lying to the FBI.

So, Hunter Biden's testimony is going to be important to this. It might well put an end to this. I guess we'll see. But I think the accommodation here is reasonable and makes sense both ways.

ACOSTA: And, Elie, let's go back to the Fani Willis situation down in Atlanta, in Fulton County. I mean, what is the relevance here when it comes to this relationship and the timing of the relationship? I can just see a lot of people might agree with what Fani Willis said the other day. I'm not the one on trial. These guys are the ones on trial.

HONIG: Yes, Jim, there's certainly a lot of drama that's broken out here, but let's look at what the legal relevance is.

The parties have offered starkly competing narratives. The defendants, the people who are trying to get Fani Willis disqualified, they claim that there was a romantic relationship first, then largely because of that, Fani Willis appointed Nathan Wade to lead this case, even though Nathan Wade had never tried a felony criminal prosecution.

Nathan Wade then proceeded to be paid a lot of money by the taxpayers of Fulton County, some of which made its way through the relationship to Fani Willis. But Fani Willis and Nathan Wade claim no. He was hired first on merit, then the romantic relationship started, none of this was planned or intentional.

And more to the point, Jim, the bigger issue now is Fani Willis and Nathan Wade have both testified and sworn under oath that their romantic relationship didn't start until after Nathan Wade came on board onto this case.

If that turns out to be true, then that should put an end to this issue, but if that turns out to be false, there's going to be major problems for Nathan Wade and Fani Willis.

ACOSTA: And so what do you think? I mean, does this end up with Fani Willis having to leave this case? How remote of a possibility is that?

HONIG: It's really hard to tell right now, Jim, because it's important to keep in mind, while we've seen much of the proceedings happening live on T.V., and there's been extensive press coverage of it, there also are things happening behind closed doors.

But I'll say this. The fact that the judge is going to hear from this attorney, Mr. Newman (ph), later today, tells me that the judge is taking a very hard look at this. The judge has had several opportunities, if he wanted, to just end this. He didn't have to hold the hearing at all. The D.A.'s office did not want him to hear from Mr. Newman at all, but the judge has said, we're going to have a hearing, it's going to be public, and now he's going to hear from this former lawyer of Mr. Wade.

So, it's a really close call in my estimation based on what we've seen. There clearly was some poor judgment exhibited by the D.A. I'm not quite sure that the defendants, however, have made out a clear financial conflict of interest at this point.

ACOSTA: Interesting. All right, Elie in New York, Manhattan prosecutors have asked the judge overseeing Trump's criminal hush money trial for a gag order against him. We've seen how successful those have been in the past. What do you think? Is it going to happen?

HONIG: Well, Jim, I can't speak to whether Donald Trump will abide by a gag order. That's certainly up to him. But I do think that what the Manhattan D.A. has requested here is reasonable because it's a very narrow gag order.

The D.A. is saying, well, Trump can't talk about this case publicly at all. All the D.A. is proposing, and this will be up to the judge, is let's prevent Donald Trump from speaking about the jurors in a way that might influence the witnesses or in a way that might impact court staff or the prosecutorial staff other than the D.A. himself.

And so that's very narrowly crafted, and it would still allow Donald Trump to say plenty. Donald Trump, even under the terms of this gag order, could get out publicly and say, these charges are bogus. I didn't do any of this. The D.A. has bad intentions. So, I think the gag order is appropriately narrow, and I think the judge is likely to sign it.

[10:30:00]

ACOSTA: All right. Elie Honig, great to see you. Thanks so much. I appreciate it.

HONIG: All right. ACOSTA: All right. Science versus misinformation, the ongoing fight in Florida.