Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

CNN International: Biden, Trump Win Michigan with Vulnerabilities on Display; Biden Wins Michigan Primary Amid Protest Vote Over Gaza; Heated Debate in the U.S. Over Ukraine Aid; Fire Risk Prompts Mass Evacuations in Australia; Europe, U.S. React to Macron Remarks on Troops to Ukraine. Aired 4-4:30a ET

Aired February 28, 2024 - 04:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[04:00:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: President Biden and former President Trump are both Michigan primary winners tonight. But that's not the full story.

NIKKI HALEY, U.S. REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: 70 percent of Americans say they don't want Donald Trump or Joe Biden. We are giving them an option.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The meeting on Ukraine was one of the most intense I have ever encountered.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will provide whatever support is requested from Victoria. This is a very difficult time.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As you see behind me, all of these mountains that are brown are supposed to be covered with snow.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Live from London, this is CNN NEWSROOM with Max Foster and Bianca Nobilo.

MAX FOSTER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and a warm welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. I'm Max Foster.

BIANCA NOBILO, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Bianca Nobilo. It is Wednesday, February 28th, 9 a.m. here in London, 4 a.m. in the battleground state of Michigan, which delivered crushing wins for Joe Biden and Donald Trump in Tuesday's primaries.

FOSTER: The U.S. President's victory there was never in any doubt, of course. What was in question was how many would vote uncommitted as a way to protest the U.S.'s support for Israel's war in Gaza. And right now, with vote counting still underway, it's about 13 percent.

NOBILO: The uncommitted campaign was driven by Arab, Muslim and progressive Democrats, a key bloc that helped President Biden win the state four years ago. He notably made no mention of them in a statement thanking Michigan voters.

FOSTER: Meanwhile, Donald Trump is celebrating another victory over his last Republican challenger, Nikki Haley. But the numbers behind the win show Trump underperforming with suburban voters and those with college degrees.

NOBILO: Despite yet another consecutive loss, Haley says she will stay in the race and is looking forward to Super Tuesday, when 16 states and one U.S. territory will hold primaries and caucuses a week from now, the biggest one-day vote before Election Day.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIKKI HALEY, U.S. REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If I got out today, it'd be the longest general election race in history. America is blessed to be a democracy. Let people vote.

Now, in the next week, we're going to watch 20 states and territories vote. Let's let that happen. We are in all the Super Tuesday states now. That's what this is all about, is making sure that we hit every state and letting them know, look, there is a voice out there for you. There is a way out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBILO: Michigan is a key swing and possibly bellwethers state that could determine who wins the November election. Trump won Michigan in 2016.

FOSTER: And they went to Joe Biden four years ago by a pretty narrow margin, though. So any loss of support there will be concerning to his campaign, as CNN's Jeff Zeleny reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF U.S. NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: President Joe Biden easily winning the Michigan primary on Tuesday, but not dispatching with his biggest opposition, and that is the protest vote to his handling of Israel's war in Gaza.

Here in Michigan, which is the heart of the Arab-American population center in the U.S., as well as the Muslim-American population center here in Dearborn, there was a significant protest vote because of how the president has handled this war.

They have been calling for the president to demand a ceasefire. That has not happened. So there was an uncommitted movement that reached out over the last three weeks or so that urged Michigan voters to check uncommitted on the ballot.

Now, tens of thousands of Michigan voters did just that. Of course, many, many more voted for President Biden. But the question is, with Michigan being such a competitive battleground, given the fact that Donald Trump also won easily on Tuesday night, where does this go moving forward?

Now, Michigan leaders vowed to take this to the Democratic National Convention in Chicago, saying they will take the anti-war movement to the streets. There is no doubt that is going to be one of the soundtracks of this presidential campaign, the president's handling of Israel's war in Gaza.

Michigan, of course, is so critical on the road to the White House, the president can barely spare any votes here. He's already down in the polls.

So the question going out of this, is there a policy change that can win back some of these voters? The voters we talked to said that they were simply doing that, registering a protest vote. They're hoping the White House listens. So as this policy evolves, as the situation on the ground there evolves, this dynamic could certainly change.

[04:05:00]

But it is a victory for President Biden, but certainly a sign of complications and vulnerabilities to come.

Jeff Zeleny, CNN, Dearborn, Michigan.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: Now independent presidential candidate Robert F. Kennedy Jr. could play a major spoiler role in this presidential election, it seems. And RFK Super PAC has gathered enough signatures to get him on the ballot in the pivotal swing states of Arizona and Georgia, which Biden won in 2020.

A New York Times senior college poll of registered voters in Arizona shows 33 percent support Biden, 33 percent support Trump and 26 percent support Kennedy.

FOSTER: Natasha Lindstaedt is a professor of government at the University of Essex. She joins us from Colchester, England. Thank you so much for joining us. In terms of this vote, this protest vote, it is significant, isn't it? Because compared with other similar elections of its kind, the message was very clear.

NATASHA LINDSTAEDT, PROFESSOR OF GOVERNMENT, UNIVERSITY OF ESSEX: Yes, it is. It is significant. Even though Biden won handily here, you had some 98,000 people that voted in this protest vote, which is basically voting uncommitted. That far exceeds their expectations. And they're trying to communicate a clear message to Biden to make some changes on his policy with Gaza.

Now, if we compare that to the 2012 primary, when Obama was running for re-election, there were only about 21,000 or about 9 percent of the electorate that voted uncommitted. So this has been a tactic used by Arab Americans to communicate some disappointment with U.S. presidents and their policy there.

But as the report illustrated, this is really tricky for Biden because he is unlikely to be able to make some kind of U-turn when he was trying to get some sort of ceasefire. This was rejected by both Israel and Hamas. And his campaign strategy with Arab American voters has just been very, very awkward.

In the state of Michigan, where you have 300,000 Arab American voters, this is incredibly important. To remind viewers, Biden only won the state of Michigan in 2020 by 154,000 votes. So he has an uphill battle here.

And it's not just in Michigan. There's a sizable Arab American population in states like Arizona and Georgia as well, which are also important swing states, that he barely won.

NOBILO: Natasha, did Trump underperform the expectations that he had for Michigan? And why might that be?

LINDSTAEDT: So I think you could make the argument that he did underperform. He was leading by almost 60 points, and he ended up winning by 42 points. And Nikki Haley ended up winning 300,000 votes. Now, of course, Trump won some 700,000 votes. So it was a sizable victory. But there's clearly some issues here.

So both wins for Biden and Trump look better on paper than when we kind of go a little bit deeper. And we can see that there is definitely angst on both sides with these candidates. They're not particularly beloved candidates with the majority of the electorate. And Haley is hoping to capitalize on some of the frustrations with Trump, concerns about Trump's legal battles that he has ahead, and also just the fact that he's prone to gaffs. He's prone to make huge mistakes, which might anger more moderate voters.

Now, the issue that Haley has is to win the candidacy, to win the Republican nomination, you have to do well with Republicans. And while she probably would do better than Trump would in the national election because she's just more moderate and would appeal to a wider range of voters, where that 15 percent of those in the middle really matter, she's just struggling to get Republicans to vote for her.

And in the state of Michigan, it was an open primary. So she had a better chance there. But I think she's staying in the race, as she mentioned, until Super Tuesday. Because she continues to get some money. She got five million even after New Hampshire, when she came in second. She gained another million in funds after Trump made fun of her husband, who is overseas. And so, she's hoping to capitalize on some sort of misstep that he might make.

FOSTER: There's nothing to suggest she could possibly win the nomination, is there, so far, at least in terms of the numbers. Could she be angling for a position? Could she suggest that she should be a running mate to Trump eventually? Is that what she's moving towards?

LINDSTAEDT: So she's made it clear that that's not what she's angling for, that she isn't even trying to get some sort of third-party status, that she wants to be the nominee for the Republican Party.

And you're right, she really doesn't have the numbers on her side. There's just no way that this is going to happen. And the way Trump is operating is a little bit different than he was in 2016, when he was more of a newcomer to the Republican Party and was more willing to listen to advice about how to win the election, which is why he chose Mike Pence as his running mate. That wouldn't have been his first choice.

[04:10:03]

Today, things have really changed. He's really only going to select someone who's really loyal to him, someone like Carrie Lake, or maybe Tim Scott, someone who hasn't gone against him, criticized him the way she has.

She's really gotten under his skin, which I think is something she enjoys. But I would think she would have no chance of gaining some sort of role in his administration. And

FOSTER: Natasha Lindstaedt, thank you so much for joining us with your analysis.

LINDSTAEDT: Thanks for having me.

FOSTER: Now, in the Middle East, talks are still underway for a hostage force ceasefire deal in Gaza, but officials from Israel, Hamas and Qatar are cautioning against President Biden's optimism that an agreement can be reached by the end of this week. They suggest differences remain as negotiators work to secure a deal.

NOBILO: Qatar, a key mediator in the ongoing negotiations, remains hopeful that a final agreement can be reached before the Islamic holy month of Ramadan begins in less than two weeks.

FOSTER: Meanwhile, Reuters and Al Jazeera are reporting that Hamas is reviewing a draft proposal for a temporary ceasefire lasting around six weeks, during which 40 Israeli hostages will be exchanged for 400 Palestinian prisoners. The White House says it hopes this leads to the end of the conflict.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KIRBY, WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY COMMUNICATIONS ADVISOR: What we're hoping to do is to get an extended pause in the fighting. I've just called it a temporary ceasefire myself. That would allow for several weeks, hopefully up to six, where there would be no fighting, so that we can get all the hostages out, increase the flow of humanitarian assistance, but just as critically, get the fighting stopped, so that there's no more civilian casualties and there's no more damage to civilian infrastructure.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBILO: Meantime, the IDF says it will take necessary measures to protect civilians if it decides to expand military operations in the southern city of Rafah, where more than one million Palestinians are currently sheltering. Let's discuss this more with journalist Elliott Gotkine, who joins us

here. Elliott, why the discrepancy in the public statements, at least, between the U.S. President and the other figures in this negotiation?

ELLIOTT GOTKINE, JOURNALIST: So, I think the U.S. has always maintained that they want to get a pause in the fighting so that humanitarian aid can get in and that you can minimize civilian casualties.

It's never actually come out and said there should be a complete cessation of hostilities, for the simple reason that it aligns with Israel's war objective, not necessarily the way that it's conducting the war, but certainly the objective of destroying Hamas, which the United States and the U.K. and others designate as a terrorist organization.

So to that end, I think you kind of have these, yes, there should be a ceasefire, but not a complete ceasefire, that is the end of the war. But they do hope that if this truce comes into effect, whereby Israeli hostages would be freed in exchange for Palestinian prisoners, more aid going in and all the other things that come with it, that during that pause in fighting, there could be substantive negotiations that lead to an end of the war between Israel and Hamas.

FOSTER: Sorry, in terms of the protections for civilians and sort of a raid on Rafah, a ground operation in Rafah, I mean, how can they get that together because of the sheer amount of people there?

GOTKINE: Well, this is why there is so much concern among the international community in particular as to quite how Israel is proposing to evacuate one, one and a half million Palestinians from Rafah, many of whom, don't forget, have gone to Rafah in the first place, whose population has ballooned by fivefold or something. How are they going to get that many people to safer areas? And will those areas indeed be safe?

Now, we had Daniel Hagari, the chief international spokesman, telling CNN last night that he was saying specifically that with all these people being close to the Egyptian border, it needs to be the right conditions, he says, and we will make sure those conditions occur if we act.

So Israel is adamant that it will be able to do so, that it will move them to safe zones where there is shelter, where there is medicine, where there is aid. But I have to say that certainly the international aid community and a lot of other countries internationally are somewhat skeptical that Israel can pull that off.

NOBILO: Just a follow up to my first question about the discrepancy. What about the difference in optimism or timescales that we're hearing? What's likely to be behind that? Could that have been a misspeak on the part of the U.S. president? Or is that intentional pressure? What do you make of it?

GOTKINE: Look, I think your guess is probably as good as mine. He was in an ice cream shop when he first made that statement, President Biden, about it happening on Monday. One assumes that he had conversation with Jake Sullivan and others who are very much, you know, in the weeds in terms of the negotiations between Israel and Hamas, mediated, of course, by the Egyptians and the Qataris. We know there is optimism, there is momentum seemingly building, but we still don't have a deal just yet.

And so, I think that's why the Israelis and others are not necessarily pouring cold water on the prospects for a truce happening, but that maybe we're getting a little bit ahead of ourselves.

[04:15:00]

And for it to come into place in Monday, maybe a little bit erring on the side of over-optimism, rather than being more realistic as to how the negotiations are going right now.

NOBILO: Elliott, thank you.

As the war grinds on, the situation is becoming worse by the day for the 2.2 million people in Gaza. The World Food Programme is warning of a real prospect for famine by May, with half a million people at risk. The group says Gaza is experiencing the worst level of child malnutrition anywhere in the world.

FOSTER: The U.S. Agency for International Development is pledging $53 million in assistance, but says bureaucratic bottlenecks and inspection delays must be resolved. And the Red Cross says some families are being forced to eat animal food and ration their supplies just so their children can get one meal a day.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAMESH RAJASINGHAM, U.N. OFFICE FOR THE COORDINATION OF HUMANITARIAN AFFAIRS: Here we are at the end of February, with at least 576,000 people in Gaza, one quarter of the population, one step away from famine, with one in six children under two years of age in northern Gaza suffering from acute malnutrition and wasting. And practically the entire population of Gaza are left to rely on woefully inadequate humanitarian food assistance to survive.

Unfortunately, as grim as the picture we see today, there is every possibility for further deterioration.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Now, some aid is getting into Gaza, delivered by air for the second consecutive day. That's from Jordan.

State media reporting six C-130 aircraft, plus planes from Egypt, Qatar, the UAE and France, took off from Amman on Tuesday. Forty-five tons of supplies went to northern and central Gaza.

NOBILO: One of the planes dropped its cargo at a field hospital in the south, which was severely short on supplies. Even Jordan's King Abdullah took part in the airdrop. On Monday, one of the planes missed its target, with aid packets

falling into the sea off Gaza. Desperate residents swam and paddled out to retrieve what they could.

If you would like information on how to help with humanitarian relief efforts for Gaza and Israel, please go to cnn.com/impact. You'll find a list of vetted organizations providing assistance. That is at cnn.com/impact.

A disaster declaration has been issued for 60 counties in Texas, where at least three massive wildfires are burning out of control. One of them, called the Smokehouse Creek Fire, has burned more than 120,000 hectares in less than 48 hours, already making it the fifth largest wildfire in the state's history. And it's now jumped state lines into Oklahoma as well.

FOSTER: Unseasonably hot, dry conditions, powerful winds, causing the flames to spread quickly. A number of communities are under evacuation alert. Some people have lost their homes, though it's unclear just how many.

As for Australia, also facing catastrophic fire dangers, with some of the worst conditions the country's seen in recent years. About 30,000 people were ordered to evacuate parts of the state of Victoria. By midday Wednesday, Australia's Prime Minister has pledged his support for the affected areas.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTHONY ALBANESE, AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER: We will provide whatever support is requested from Victoria. This is a very difficult time, and over this period we've seen floods, we've seen bushfires, we've seen heatwaves, we've seen these events that have had a real impact on Australians. It's a reminder of the need for us to be vigilant, for us to continue to work and act on the threat that is climate change, with an increased number of extreme weather events, and increased intensity of those events.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBILO: One bushfire has been burning out of control since Thursday, fueled by hot, dry and windy conditions. It's destroyed at least six homes, and authorities fear the flames could spread to more populated areas. This comes more than four years after bushfires ravaged large parts of southeastern Australia, killing 33 people and wiping out critical animal habitats.

And switching gears, Max, we've also learned that Prince William didn't attend his godfather's memorial service yesterday -- your obviously the Royal Correspondent. What more do we know about this decision? Because there's a lot of gossip circulating in the U.K. at the moment around Prince William and also his wife, who we still haven't seen for many months now.

FOSTER: Yes, I think there's so many gaps in the information we have that people are filling them in with, you know, their own ideas. So his godfather was having a memorial on -- it was a memorial for his godfather on the estate very close to William's house. He cancelled last minute, from what we can tell. He was meant to be doing a reading. He didn't go. Speculation sort of mounted what that was about. We were told that it wasn't connected with King Charles and his cancer, because he also couldn't go.

[04:20:00]

And then we were told separately that the Princess of Wales is doing well. Obviously, he's been at home looking after her after her operation, and we haven't seen her since. And then we were told separately that the Princess of Wales is doing well.

So people are, you know, wondering what, you know, condition she's got and sort of how well she's doing. But we're not getting any information about that.

But it was just -- I think there's so much going on in the family, him pulling out of something last minute that he would have wanted to go to, has alarmed people.

We also, you know, had this news about Thomas Kingston. He's a junior member of the royal family, but he was found dead recently as well.

And we're told again that William's absence wasn't connected to that. But I think for the public, it's just so much going on, so much about health-related, and they just can't really figure it out.

NOBILO: And it's all the more stark, quite apart from the personal tragedy and suffering of these events, because one of King Charles's priorities has been streamlining the British monarchy so that the taxpayer doesn't feel like they're funding all of these different lifestyles and securities.

However, that seems to be hanging by a thread because there simply aren't enough people right now to carry out the public duties.

FOSTER: Which became really apparent yesterday at the memorial, so cameras were allowed outside. And, you know, part of what the palace messaging machine is, you know, you see them appearing, the public, the royal family in public as a show of force.

You know, it's calm, it's continuity, things are carrying on as they should.

NOBILO: The system.

FOSTER: Yes. But then when you see the show of force as literally Camilla leading down a lot of junior royals, it feels weaker. And, you know, all of this plays into the optics of what's worrying people. But at the same time, you've got to have some sympathy for the family. These are medical issues, these are private issues, they don't want to talk about them.

And they would argue they do have a right to some privacy, so why should they have to declare everything that's going on?

NOBILO: Of course.

French President Emmanuel Macron is facing pushback after his comments on sending troops to Ukraine. We'll have the reaction from leaders in Europe and the U.S.

NOBILO: Plus, street protests blocked borders and wasted grain. Farmers in Poland are demonstrating across the country now. We'll have details of why they're upset.

NOBILO: And later, it'll cost you more money to see the Mouse. Tickets to Disney World are going up next year. We'll check the prices ahead on CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has travelled to Saudi Arabia where he held talks with Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman. As Zelenskyy says, his country's peace formula topped the agenda, followed by efforts to return Ukrainian prisoners of war and detainees.

NOBILO: Ahead of his meeting, President Zelenskyy said the two would also discuss areas of economic cooperation and Saudi Arabia's involvement in Ukraine's reconstruction.

FOSTER: U.S. and European leaders are trying to distance themselves from comments by the French President about the potential deployment of troops to Ukraine.

[04:25:00]

NOBILO: At the Ukrainian AIDS Summit in Paris on Monday, Emmanuel Macron said sending Western troops to Ukraine, quote, cannot be ruled out, though he made clear that no agreement.

FOSTER: A NATO official and several European leaders were quick to say there were no plans to send ground troops.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OLAF SCHOLTZ, GERMAN CHANCELLOR (through translator): We obviously discussed ways how to arrange for the support, and here once again in a very good debate, it was discussed that what was agreed from the outset among ourselves and with each other also had to be agreed upon. applies to the future, namely that there will be no ground troops, no soldiers on Ukrainian soil sent there by European countries or NATO states.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NOBILO: And in the U.S. here was the reaction from the Pentagon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MAJ. GEN. PAT RYDER, PENTAGON SPOKESPERSON: Well, just to be clear, we have no plans to send U.S. service members to fight in Ukraine. The president has been pretty clear on that, and that continues to be our position.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Clare Sebastian joins us here. We talked a bit about this yesterday, but the fallout must be received with some glee, let's face it, in Moscow, this division.

CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I would say, I mean, the official Kremlin reaction was, as you would expect, voicing Europe's biggest fear here, saying that this would be an inevitable conflict with Russia.

But in the sort of wider circles around Putin's spokesperson, you hear things like the foreign ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova in a radio interview really highlighting the disunity in Europe, saying that, you know, Macron's allies were in shock, they weren't expecting this. They had to come out and say, you know, we're disassociating ourselves with this. So they are seizing on that point and not perhaps the message that Macron had hoped to get across, which the Elysee Palace later confirmed to CNN, which was to send a signal to Russia that Europe was prepared to basically go big in its efforts to stop Russia from winning. So he's created this delicate situation.

The point, according to the Elysee Palace, was to get the debate out there. He's certainly done that. But this barrage of sort of walk back, this collective walk back that we see from these European and NATO leaders has now essentially become the story.

So I think the question for Ukraine is whether this was a positive thing to happen or whether this just highlights the political problems that are currently getting in the way of further aid.

NOBILO: It really seems to have backfired because now, as you say, the story has become the fact that there are limits to what Europe would do, which, you know, in many quarters will be received well. But it seems to be the opposite of what Macron had intended by his remarks.

Let's talk about that aid. So very contentious discussions still happening in the United States, which I'm sure is deeply anxiety inducing for Kyiv.

SEBASTIAN: Well, this is the absolute biggest issue. A Ukrainian MP told me recently that more people in Ukraine know the name of the U.S. House Speaker than they do their own speaker. They are hanging on his every word. And this was a very, in the words of Chuck Schumer, the Senate majority leader, a very intense meeting, the most intense meeting in the Oval Office he's ever had.

And that these basically everyone except Mike Johnson was trying to persuade him trying to make the point that history is on his shoulder.

So let's take a listen to what Chuck Schumer and Mike Johnson had to say after the meeting.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): And one leading American said to me, if we don't give the aid, Russian tanks could be at the Polish border by December.

That's how serious this is. And I know there are isolationists, America first. Well, that's sort of like what we saw in 1938. It's not an exact analogy. But those isolationists who feel that autocrats, if we leave them alone, they'll leave us alone, have just been proven wrong by history over, over, over, over again.

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): You also heard, I'm sure, that there was discussion about the supplemental spending package. And I was very clear with the president and all those in the room that the House is actively pursuing and investigating all the various options on that. And we will address that in a timely manner.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SEBASTIAN: Will it be timely enough? I think is the question for Ukraine. You could argue that that time has already elapsed. And, you know, Russia having taken Avdiivka has now caused Ukraine to withdraw this week from a further couple of, albeit very small, but still more villages on that eastern front.

NOBILO: Clare Sebastian, thank you.

FOSTER: There used to be lots of snow in central Italy at this time of year. Now there's muddy messes everywhere. They're still just managing to ski, though, aren't they? I will explain how the climate crisis is impacting ski resorts and in turn the country's economy.

NOBILO: And later, a piece of music history hits the market. The place where Freddie Mercury created one of the most memorable and unexpected rock songs of all time.

FOSTER: Name it.

[04:30:00]