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CNN INTERNATIONAL: Civilians Trampled, Run Over By Trucks After IDF Opens Fire On Food Line; Biden: "I Know" Deadly Gaza Incident Will Complicate Negotiations; Gaza Health Ministry: Death Toll From War Passes 30,000. Aired 11a-12p ET

Aired February 29, 2024 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:00]

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN Breaking News.

RAHEL SOLOMON, HOST: Welcome to you. I'm Rahel Solomon live for you in New York.

Let's get right to our breaking news, a devastating scene in Gaza City. Palestinian health officials say that at least 104 people were killed today in a "massacre." As crowds of people desperate for food rushed toward aid trucks, Israeli tanks and drones opened fire, and that triggered panic and further casualties as some trucks frantically trying to escape ran into the crowds. A senior Hamas member warns that the killings could derail talks for a hostage deal and ceasefire.

Let's bring in CNN's Chief International Correspondent Clarissa Ward live for us in London. Clarissa, there are differing accounts about what happened. What more can you share with us, and what are you hearing?

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So, as you mentioned, there are differing accounts. We're hearing from a Palestinian journalist who was there at the scene, that essentially huge crowds of people started to swarm this convoy of roughly 30 trucks that had come in to northern Gaza very early in the morning. This is, of course, some of the toughest parts of Gaza. It's where the hardest fighting has been, the fewest people remain, the most desperate and critical humanitarian situation remains. And it's been very, very difficult to get aid to this area. And you could see in those extraordinary images just swarms of people.

Now, we're hearing from the IDF. They say that there were two separate incidents, and that essentially, in one of the incidents that there was a sort of stampede, that there was an issue with the trucks actually crashing into people as they had sort of descended upon the different trucks. They said that there was a second incident in which the IDF became concerned that people were heading towards a tank and started to fire off in the air. And so, you're hearing these two different narratives.

But, at the end of the day, Rahel, it is very clear how this situation happened, why it happened, whether the vast majority of deaths were caused by the stampede, whether they were caused by IDF bullets. The reality is they were caused because the situation in Gaza has reached such a situation, such a crucial point of desperation with UN officials talking about it being now in northern Gaza, specifically, one step away from famine, and no end in sight as this latest horrific incident really, potentially threatens to derail these hostage deal, ceasefire deal negotiations all together, Rahel.

SOLOMON: So, to that point, I want to play for you a clip from earlier this week. The Secretary-General of the Norwegian Refugee Council, this interview with Christiane Amanpour, essentially warning of something like this. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAN EGELAND, SECRETARY-GENERAL, NORWEGIAN REFUGEE COUNCIL: The chaos, yes, around the aid line is becoming worse and worse because there is so little aid coming in. You see the aid trucks going full speed down the road, being chased by gangs of youth who jump the trump -- the trucks and before eyes loot mattresses, blankets, food, etc., to the desperate people outside who want to get some aid.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOLOMON: And Clarissa, you are one of the few international journalists who has reported from inside of Gaza. I'm just wondering if you can even quantify or describe for our audience the level of need.

WARD: Well, I mean, let's just talk about the numbers, Rahel. Let's talk about the fact that before October 7, every single day, roughly 500 trucks would go into Gaza, and that was when there was no humanitarian crisis. Right? Since October 7, on a good day, you might get 200, 250 trucks in. Last month, roughly less than 100 trucks a day. And last week, there were four days where less than 10 trucks a day were able to go in to Gaza. So, you can imagine, setting that event against the backdrop of 30,000 people killed, just how desperate the situation is.

You have lawlessness. You have looting. You have organized crime. You have a real problem because the UN that distributes the vast majority of the aid doesn't have armed gunmen or guards escorting their convoys, and the police who were traditionally doing that job have been targeted by Israel because they are technically part of Hamas' civilian forces. U.S. officials had even warned Israel that going after the police was creating problems, that the police were needed to try to ensure that these convoys could cross through the country effectively and quickly without being looted so that the aid to get where it needs to get.

[11:05:00]

And just another small thing, Rahel, particularly in the north where comms are basically non-existent, I spoke to one person from the World Health Organization who said, in areas where there are no communications, where we can't telegraph to people that on Thursday at 9 a.m. there is going to be a bunch of food coming in. There will be enough for you. That looting becomes far more common because it is lawlessness, because there is a total lack of clarity and information. People are so desperate. They are literally on the edge of starvation. And so, naturally, you are going to have situations like this. The question now becomes, what does Israel intend to do about it? What does the U.S. intend to do about it?

We heard President Biden just moments ago saying that he acknowledges that this is going to create a real problem in terms of that hostage ceasefire deal being hashed out.

SOLOMON: And Clarissa, just in terms of information, even to the outside world, there is a real lack of access to the area, even just in terms of understanding what truly happened on the ground in this incident. There are so few, if at all, Western or international journalists who have been granted access inside of the strip.

WARD: You have journalists who have been inside Gaza since day one, who lived there, who have done extraordinary work, who have been incredibly courageous, who have paid a much too high price, who have died in numbers that we haven't seen since World War Two. But, even for them to move around the Gaza Strip right now and particularly to those areas in the north that have become so desperate and so isolated, is incredibly difficult and incredibly dangerous, especially when that's compounded by the fact that there is a lack of communications. There is increasing lawlessness. There is looting. It becomes an even more desperate and dangerous situation.

This is why you've seen journalists repeatedly lobbying, international journalists who have not been allowed into Gaza to have free and unfettered access to report independently on the ground. And this is why we're also seeing aid organizations pulling their hair out, Rahel, that they are not being given the kind of access that they need.

SOLOMON: Clarissa Ward live for us in London. Clarissa, thank you.

I'm going to continue this conversation now with CNN National Security Analyst Peter Bergen, who joins us from Washington. Peter, I'm wondering what your perspective is or sense is about what this event does for any potential for a ceasefire or hostage talks moving forward?

PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, I take the Hamas statements about this at face value, which is it makes it harder. I mean, it was already hard. We had President Biden saying this was going to be wrapped up, or implying it was going to be wrapped up by Monday. That was a statement he made ahead of the Michigan primary where of course Gaza was a big issue. That was, of course, wishful thinking anyway. I think --

SOLOMON: Peter, I actually think we have that soundbite of President Biden. Let's play it for our viewers. Just one moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you know what happened in Gaza City? More than 100 civilians were killed.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We're checking that out right now. There is two competing version of what happened. I don't have an answer yet.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you worried that that will complicate negotiations?

BIDEN: I know it will.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOLOMON: All right. Peter, continue your thought.

BERGEN: I can't hear you.

SOLOMON: Can you hear me now, Peter?

BERGEN: I can.

SOLOMON: OK.

BERGEN: So, clearly, this is -- I mean, this is the most complex hostage negotiation imaginable. You've got several countries involved. You've got Israel. You've got Egypt. You've got the United States. You've got Qatar, which are facilitating the dialogue. You have the Hamas political leadership in Qatar. Then you have the Hamas military leadership on the ground. Yeah. There was -- and also, by the way, there is Palestinian Islamic Jihad, which may have some of the hostages and even criminal gangs. So, there are sort of eight parties to this negotiation, problem number one.

Problem number two is communication. I mean, you're just talking to Clarissa just now. There is very limited communication in Gaza. And the military leadership of Gaza is 60 feet underground. So, it's not that you can have a cell phone conversation with them about what's going on. So, this was already very complicated. And you have this ticking deadline, which is March 10, which is the beginning of Ramadan. You have Hamas leadership calling for a march on the Al-Aqsa Mosque in eastern Jerusalem. You have the Israeli government saying that they're going to really restrict access to the mosque, which is the third holiest site in Islam, and you have things really heating up, which is why the United States, as I understand, the clock is ticking on this, and the clock keeps ticking.

[11:10:00]

And now we have this horrible incident which is going to delay things.

SOLOMON: Yeah. And I'm wondering, we have already seen, Peter, of course, a shift in the language from the White House in terms of a ceasefire or a temporary ceasefire at the very least. I'm wondering if this in addition to the threat of the IDF entering Rafah makes -- starts to reach a point where White House support for this operation in Gaza becomes untenable. Do you think we're approaching that point? What do you think? BERGEN: Well, I think the Biden administration has publicly started saying things like, I mean, you remember, President Biden at one point saying that the Israeli reaction was over the top. Then you've also had senior White House officials go to Michigan, basically sort of say that the Israelis are overreaching. We don't know what they're saying privately to Benjamin Netanyahu. However, it doesn't seem that many of these private discussions have yielded anything really concrete. We don't know what we don't know. I mean, there has been reporting that an Israeli incursion into Lebanon was delayed or put off or stopped early on in this crisis. We have new reporting now that there is a possibility of an attack on the northern border into Lebanon within a few weeks or months, certainly, according to U.S. intelligence officials speaking to CNN.

So, obviously this -- well, this incident today makes everything much, much worse. But, it also highlights, I think what Clarissa was saying, which is we have this massive humanitarian catastrophe unfolding in Gaza. And people are desperate. And we still don't know exactly what happened in this incident. But, the law of the framework is that people are desperate.

SOLOMON: Yeah. And I would wonder, as you mentioned March 10 and the start of Ramadan, of course, this is a really important period in terms of what happens next, with some U.S. lawmakers saying that, look, this could be the period where we either see some progression towards some semblance of peace, or we could see perhaps the potential for a wider escalation. And I'm just curious, in light of what happened this morning in Gaza, what's looking more likely?

BERGEN: I just don't know, Rahel. But, I can -- it is -- Ramadan is a month of peace, and it would be a propitious moment for a release of prisoners and hostages by Hamas. However, they have their own constituencies to consider in the Gaza Strip, and with this incident, surely that kind of exchange is going to become harder. So, I mean, I don't know. But, today's incident surely didn't help.

SOLOMON: Peter Bergen, so good to have your insights today. Thank you. We'll leave it here.

We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back.

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[11:15:00]

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SOLOMON: All right. We're going to continue our conversation now. I'm joined now by Israeli Defense Forces Spokesman Peter Lerner. Col. Lerner, thanks for the time today.

LT. COL. PETER LERNER, SPOKESMAN, ISRAEL DEFENSE FORCES: Thank you.

SOLOMON: As I understand it, you cannot confirm the death toll from this morning in Gaza City. But, what more can you share with our audience about specifically what happened? LERNER: Well, in the very early hours of this morning, in order to address the dire situation in northern Gaza Strip, the IDF continued to coordinate a convoy of humanitarian supplies that have been supplied by international donors to the northern Gaza Strip. The convoy passed our positions and moved forward. It continued to go north. And as they went north, we saw on our surveillance that a huge amount of people basically stormed the convoy and tried to overcome it. In the aftermath of that, we've seen a mass casualty event where people were trampled, squashed, even run over by some of those truckloads. And this is the reality that we're facing.

In a second event, in a short distance away, we also had a group of people that approached the military forces in a war zone. The forces opened fire in the air to distance them, warning fire, in order to get people out of harm's way. Unfortunately, they proceeded to advance, and indeed their perceived threat, and the forces opened fire. We are aware in the second incident that there are a handful of people that were injured. This is the reality on the ground. This is a tragic incident. Indeed, we are trying in order to get more goods into northern Gaza Strip to coordinate and maintain a flow of goods into the north.

SOLOMON: But, Colonel, that account contradicts what eyewitnesses on the ground have said, which said that it was actually Israeli military who opened fire on people near the trucks, and that created the stampede, and that is what created the situation where some people may have been trampled. What do you say to this account that directly contradicts what you're saying?

LERNER: So, we distributed aerial footage that shows exactly how the people were stalling the trucks that had nothing to do with the IDF fire, and as the trucks continued to move on, continued to press forward despite the fact that there were hundreds and perhaps thousands of people around those trucks. So, I would say our message is very clear. This is the investigation. These are the facts that we know up until now. We're continuing to review it because of these claims. But, we have a very good understanding of the situation.

As I've described, the trucks went through. They were surrounded by hundreds of people, thousands of people perhaps, and as they were trying to loot the goods on the trucks, it appears that the trucks continued to move forward. And this is the unfortunate reality, a mass casualty event that actually has very little or nothing to do with Israel.

SOLOMON: And as you say that the IDF will continue to review the incident, are you willing and pledging to share any further evidence to back up what you're saying?

LERNER: We've been sharing information and doing briefings and revealing our footage throughout the day. As more intelligence and more information comes to light, I'm sure we'll be able to share more information. We're still in the initial stages of the review. What I'm revealing and sharing with you, this evening from here is what we know up until now. SOLOMON: I'm wondering, I mean, surely you are with the military and necessarily a politician. But, I am wondering if you are concerned about this incident and whether it derails any progress that may have been made or any negotiations or conversations that may have been taking place in terms of freeing some of the hostages and getting more humanitarian aid into Gaza. What does this do for those conversations?

LERNER: Well, we have two goals in -- or three goals in this war, first of all, to dismantle and destroy Hamas as a governing authority. That is what we're doing. Second of all, to bring home the hostages, 134 Israelis that remain in the clutches of Hamas even this evening. And finally, to bring an improved security situation, I would say, for all decent people in the area. So, of course, our activities and our military operations are accompanied by a humanitarian effort, which we were conducting overnight in the early hours of this morning in order to get goods to the people that actually need it. Unfortunately, the reality on the ground is a very challenging one. And this this type of situations need to be put in the right context. And this is precisely what's happened.

When the trucks ran over people, when people were trampled over by people trying to get the food to get the foodstuff, it's a tragedy, but it isn't to do with Israel. It isn't to do with the IDF operations.

[11:20:00]

We need to make sure that this is the situation. This is what is understood. And as we push forward, I can tell you what we're going to continue doing. We're going to continue our humanitarian efforts to make sure that the goods come in through Rafah, come in through Kerem Shalom, airdropped from the sky to the people that actually need it. That is what we were committed to do.

SOLOMON: I'm wondering your response, I mean, that this event this morning comes on the same day that the operation in Gaza reaches a pretty grim milestone, 30,000 killed, according to the local health ministry there. And I'm wondering what your response is to people who hear this and see this and say, when is enough, enough?

LERNER: Those figures are being distributed by the Hamas Ministry of Health. I wouldn't trust the ISIS Ministry of Health. I wouldn't trust Al-Qaeda Ministry of Health. Why are we trusting Hamas Ministry of Health? The IDF has killed in combat over 12,000 terrorists. That is what we know. That is how we're operating. Hamas are not reporting about those. I wonder why? This is the reality on the ground. We are operating in order to distinguish between Hamas terrorists and civilians. We're operating within the realm of laws of armed conflict, both in distinction and precaution and proportionality. And most importantly, if we combine those things, with regard and weighing up the military necessity, as we push forward to achieve our military goal of dismantling and destroying Hamas and bringing home the hostages.

This war can be over. Hamas can release the hostages, every last one of them. And they can unconditionally surrender. And there will be no need for the war to be extended. Our goal is to change the security situation for the benefit of all people, and to create a new security situation for the people of Israel that have suffered at the hands of Hamas that launched a war against Israel on October 7.

SOLOMON: Colonel Peter Lerner, we will leave it here. We appreciate your time today. Thank you.

LERNER: Thank you. Good day.

SOLOMON: Let me bring back in CNN's Chief International Correspondent Clarissa Ward in London. Clarissa, I'm not sure how much you heard of that conversation. But, we'd love your reaction. I mean, one thing that struck me is the comment there that what happened this morning is not about Israel. It's not about the IDF. Your thoughts.

WARD: Well, his exact quote was it has very little to do with Israel. But, international law sees things otherwise. This is a conflict in which Israel is the dominant occupying power, and it is the responsibility of Israel to ensure that aid is distributed effectively to the civilian population. This is an issue that American and officials as well as aid agencies have been warning the Israelis about for many weeks and months, that this would become more and more of a problem unless you allow for the free flow of aid into this area. It is only natural that people are desperate. You are going to see looting. It is only natural that you are going to see a spike in criminal activity. Some of this aid is being siphoned off and sold in the markets.

The only way to stop that kind of activity is to flood the zone with aid. Now, we just spoke with a UN officer who has spent time in Gaza over the last few months. He says the only way you can distribute aid at scale in this kind of a situation is to have a ceasefire, to have a ceasefire whereby international aid organizations are given enough time, enough of the heads up to prepare for this moment to bring in vast quantities of aid. Currently, their store rooms might have two or three days' worth of aid in them at any given time. You have 300,000 people living in northern Gaza at the moment in the most desperate and dire of circumstances.

You have the UN office that coordinates humanitarian aid, saying that they are one step away from famine. The UN official that we just spoke to said that 15 percent of people now in northern Gaza are suffering from acute malnutrition, 15 percent as compared to five percent, according to this UN official in the south. Six children died in one hospital in northern Gaza last week of dehydration and malnutrition. And this is not something new. This is something that international aid organizations have been screaming from the rooftops about for quite some time now.

So, for Colonel Lerner to imply that this is not Israel's problem, this is not Israel's responsibility, and it is not Israel's fault, is simply in contravention of international humanitarian law, Rahel.

SOLOMON: Now, Clarissa, I'm not sure if you heard President Biden this morning, but basically acknowledging that what happened this morning does make hostage talks, does make getting humanitarian aid into Gaza even more difficult.

[11:25:00]

And I'm curious, from your perspective, I mean, obviously, we have seen a gradual shift from the White House in terms of language, but I'm curious if you feel like we are reaching a point where the White House's support becomes untenable. I mean, it's certainly become a political challenge at the very least for President Biden.

WARD: I think there is absolutely a growing realization, not just in the White House, but here in the UK as well, that this policy of publicly supporting Israel and privately applying pressure is not yielding the results that the White House would like to see. This is becoming a serious political issue for President Biden in terms of the election in November. It's also becoming a huge geopolitical issue for America in terms of its reputation on the world stage. And of course, it's becoming a huge issue for Israel in terms of its reputation being tarnished on the world stage.

And so, I do think that while this incident is horrifying and threatens to derail the progress that has been made in those talks that would lead to a hostage deal, that would lead to a ceasefire, it is also potentially some kind of a watershed moment and that it will not be possible for governments in the West and particularly for the White House to continue to advocate that their policy is working with regards to this subject. And we can't continue to see incidents like what we saw taking place this morning in the northern Gaza Strip, Rahel.

SOLOMON: Yeah. Even the satellite images being quite horrifying to witness. Clarissa Ward live for us in London. Clarissa, thank you.

And coming up, we're going to have much more on our breaking news this hour, that mass casualty event in Gaza after the IDF opens fire on a crowd waiting for food.

And we continue to watch Texas today for the arrival of President Joe Biden and Donald Trump. Coming up, I will talk about immigration with U.S. House Democrat Henry Cuellar. He knows the issue well because his Texas district covers a big chunk of the U.S.-Mexico border. We'll be right back.

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SOLOMON: Welcome back. You are watching CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Rahel Solomon live in New York.

We want to return now to our top story. The Health Ministry in Gaza says that more than 100 civilians have died in a chaotic incident in Gaza City. People had rushed toward aid trucks in hopes of getting food. Israel says that the IDF, feeling under threat, opened fire, but a local journalist says that many people were killed under the wheels of the aid trucks as they tried to escape, and these latest horrific losses coming as the overall death toll in Gaza rises to more than 30,000 since the war started.

Let's go to CNN's Chief National Security Correspondent Alex Marquardt. He is live for us in Washington. Alex, we know the President has already responded to this this morning. Let's take a listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you know what happened in Gaza City? More than 100 civilians were killed.

BIDEN: We're checking that out right now. There is two competing version of what happened. I don't have an answer yet.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you worried that that will complicate negotiations?

BIDEN: I know it will.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOLOMON: So, Alex, what more are we hearing from the U.S. government just in terms of the reaction to all of this?

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Rahel, I think you're hearing a bit more skepticism from the President there than we're hearing from senior officials about what happened. There is little doubt that there was a huge death toll here, the Health Ministry saying more than 100 people were killed in this horrific incident. The White House, before those remarks from President Biden, had called this a serious incident, and they're looking into the reports.

But, the main thing that we're hearing now, Rahel, from senior U.S. officials is that this adds urgency to these ceasefire talks that the U.S. has been helping mediate alongside Qatar and Egypt. You remember a couple of days ago, President Biden said that he expected that a ceasefire could be in place as early as Monday. Just now in those remarks on the South Lawn before he got on the helicopter, he said that that is not likely, but hope springs eternal. And he acknowledged that this incident today, this horrifically deadly incident complicates those talks.

Now, I think the big question today, Rahel, is whether that will -- this will derail those talks and push them back, or whether it will accelerate them? At least one senior official I've spoken with believes that it will speed them up. But, Hamas has also warned that this could really deal a blow to those talks. So, that remains to be seen. But, without question, this desperate need for aid that was exhibited earlier today emphasizes the desire and the real need for the U.S. and the other parties to get to a temporary truce in Gaza. Rahel.

SOLOMON: Yeah. [11:35:00]

And Alex, I want to read for you a part of what the National Security Council said in a statement this morning. "This", this being the event in Gaza City, "underscores the importance of expanding and sustaining the flow of humanitarian assistance into Gaza, including through a potential temporary ceasefire. We continue to work day and night to achieve that outcome."

Alex, what does that work look like after this morning? We know Blinken has visited the region more than half a dozen times since October 7. Give us a sense of what types of conversations you think might be happening behind closed doors to try to move this closer to a ceasefire, at least temporarily and not farther.

MARQUARDT: Well, I think you're essentially going to have two tracks here. There is the immediate need that was on full display in that drone video that was put out by the IDF, a desperate need for aid. The U.S. will put pressure on Israel to ramp up the aid, and not just get more aid into Gaza, but get it to where it needs to be. Those images that we're looking at, that's in Gaza City. That's in the northern part of the Gaza Strip. Most of the aid is coming in to the southern part of the Gaza Strip. It was very difficult to get up to the north. There are discussions about opening up a crossing in northern Gaza between Israel and Gaza. I would imagine that the talks around that gets stepped up.

But, certainly, what we can imagine happening behind the scenes is these three main mediators, the U.S., Qatar and Egypt, calling both Hamas and Israel, saying, we need to get to a deal. We need to get to a ceasefire so that the hostages can get released, so that Palestinian prisoners can get released, so that there can be a pause in the fighting that these Palestinians so desperately need after almost five months of war, and so that the humanitarian aid can get in and to where it needs to be. Rahel.

SOLOMON: Yeah. We know these next two weeks are critical. These next two weeks before Ramadan are considered just a really crucial period for any sort of progress. Alex Marquardt live for us in Washington. Alex, thank you.

We want to turn our attention now to developments in Texas. That's where President Joe Biden and Republican frontrunner Donald Trump are both due to arrive later today to visit different towns on the U.S.- Mexico border. Their dueling trips come as the migrant crisis continues to be a major issue heading into the 2024 election.

I want to discuss this more with U.S. House Democrat Henry Cuellar. Congressman, good to have you today. Thank you.

REP. HENRY CUELLAR (D-TX): Thank you so much.

SOLOMON: This is obviously a rare trip for the President. This is his second trip since taking office to the border. What does he need to say? What does he need to do while there? CUELLAR: Well, first of all, just the fact that he is showing up for a second time, it's important for him to be there. The fact that he is meeting with Border Patrol, law enforcement, other Homeland Security folks and border communities, border public officials, it's so important because he is going to hear what I've been saying for many years. We at the border want to see law in order. We want to see law and order, but still be respectful of immigrant rights. But, that law and order is so important for us. We don't have any sanctuary cities. We want to make sure that we have order at the border.

SOLOMON: And Congressman, as you say, I mean, this is something that you had been talking about for years. I'm wondering, when you were talking to people in your district, what are you hearing? I mean, how frustrated are people there that U.S. lawmakers can't seem to figure out a solution to this?

CUELLAR: Yes, and you're absolutely right. It is frustrating for people for the fact that politics comes into play. What they all want to do is they want to make sure that we fund Border Patrol, make sure that we have technology at the ports of entry and in between, and they want to make sure that we come up with a solution. They get tired of all this politics. What they want to do is they want to stop seeing people coming in between ports of entry. If they want to go at a port and ask for asylum, and if they qualify under the law, let them go ahead and do that. But, people don't want to see people crossing the ranch lands or people sleeping in the streets of border communities, like we've seen for so many years.

So, it's one of those things that they're asking us to work together. And unfortunately, we had a border deal. The Senate deal was a good deal. But, as we know, the other party rejected it because the former President told them to reject it. And here we are with no border deal.

SOLOMON: Yeah. It was a deal that even the Border Patrol union endorsed since that it had actually made pretty significant steps forwards, and it wasn't perfect, but it's actually done quite a bit. Let me ask, President Biden has slammed Trump as using this opportunity on the border as a photo op or photo opportunity. What does President Biden need to do to make this visit impactful moving forward and not just a photo op for him? I mean, do you think that executive action is necessary? What can he do to make this more than a photo op?

[11:40:00]

CUELLAR: Look, the President can do certain things through executive action, not everything. Whatever is the current law, Title 8, the current laws that we have. He has got to follow those laws. But, he can do certain things. But, at the end of the day, if you want to hold more people and have more judges and more asylum officers, guess what? Congress has to fund those actions. So, it's -- he can do something, without a doubt. And I'll give you another example that's worked very well.

Remember, in December, we had 10,000 or 12,000 people a day cut in half. You know what happened? We didn't add border wall. We didn't add any new Border Patrol technology. What happened was, the U.S. was able to convince Mexico to do its job, and that is stopping people from coming to our border. And that's one way that the President can play a big role, play defense, not on the one-yard line called the U.S. border, but play defense on the southern border of Mexico.

SOLOMON: Interesting. I'm turning now from the very real humanitarian issue of immigration to the politics of immigration. We have seen Democrats start to lean into immigration a bit more forcefully. I'm thinking about the special election in New York, for example. Give me a sense. Do you think we're going to see more of that, both from Biden and from your party moving forward through November?

CUELLAR: As you know, for the last four years or so, I've been talking about -- I'm saying, we as Democrats can talk about border security. We can be strong on border security, and still be respectful of immigrant rights. What happened was a lot of my colleagues, Democrats, were -- they want to talk about border security. They didn't want to talk about border security. But, what we saw at the border, border communities, now they're seeing that in New York, in Chicago, in Colorado, and Washington, D.C. and so many other places. So, they're now seeing what we have felt for many years.

So, I think now, certainly, I think you're going to see more Democrats, including the President, including the President, that are going to move to the center where most Americans are and where a lot of us have been for many years.

SOLOMON: And then, Congressman, before I let you go, I mean, I know that you represent a district along the border. But, the wildfires in the north of Texas, can you give us a sense of where you are as a state in terms of containment, in terms of damage? I mean, as far as I understand, there is still quite a lot of work.

CUELLAR: Yeah. There is still a lot. Now, it's like 800 miles away from my district. As you know, Texas is huge. But, there are hundreds and hundreds of acres of burn. And it's one of those things that in that area you got a lot of wind. That's why you got windmills in those areas. You get a lot of wind. So, that adds to it. And of course, not having enough water has been a problem that we've seen across the state of Texas. So, those are things that certainly we want to work with the governor, with the state of Texas, and provide any assistance that we can for the northern part of Texas.

SOLOMON: Yeah. All right. We'll leave it here. We appreciate the time. U.S. Congressman Henry Cuellar from Texas, thank you.

CUELLAR: Thank you so much.

SOLOMON: All right. Well, still to come for us, it's one of the deadliest incidents in Gaza since the war began. Coming up, we're going to have an update on the chaos that unfolded when crowds of people desperate for food came under fire. And then we'll speak with an influential U.S. Senator who was just in the Middle East last week.

We're going to take a quick break. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:45:00]

SOLOMON: Welcome back. And returning to our top story this hour, those horrendous scenes emerging from Gaza City. We do want to warn you that these images are graphic. The Enclaves Health Ministry says that more than 100 people were killed while they were waiting for food. Israel says that its troops opened fire after feeling threatened. A local journalist says that the majority of the deaths resulted from trucks ramming into people as drivers tried to get away from the gunfire. An Israeli military spokesperson claimed that there were two separate incidents. He says that trucks were first rushed by crowds and rolled over people before Israeli forces opened fire on a group of Palestinians that approached them.

I want to continue this conversation and now bring in U.S. Senator Chris Coons from Capitol Hill. He was just in the Middle East just last week. Senator Coons, thank you for the time today.

SEN. CHRIS COONS (D-DE): Rahel, this is yet another tragic story out of Gaza, and it is a cautionary tale, a reminder that as the humanitarian circumstances get worse and worse, people on the edge of starvation are going to assault the trucks that are trying to get in to deliver humanitarian aid. This is a catastrophe. And it is frankly urgent that the IDF and the Israeli government clarify how they are going to help deliver more humanitarian aid into Gaza, and what their plans are for a potential assault on Rafah in the coming weeks.

When I was in Israel and met with Prime Minister Netanyahu, he made it clear that he had gotten the message from President Biden that they have to do a better job of protecting civilians from harm. I understand the IDF has an important mission in combatting Hamas. But, Hamas is embedded in the civilian population, in some cases, literally under the civilian population in Gaza. And the IDF has an obligation under international law to conduct themselves in a way that minimizes civilian casualties. This tragedy --

SOLOMON: Senator --

COONS: -- today reminds us how urgent this is.

SOLOMON: Senator, how much more difficult does a deal for temporary ceasefire become after this incident? And I'm reminded of something you said after your recent trip. You said, the coming weeks hold the potential to be either the beginnings of a path to peace or an expansion of conflict regionally. And I'm wondering after this event today, how optimistic are you that the next few weeks are the beginning of the path to peace?

COONS: Well, this is in the hands of Hamas and Israel. As you know, they're negotiating through intermediaries, the Qataris. The Egyptians are also helping. Both sides are going to have to be willing to accept releasing more hostages, perhaps than they want to by Hamas, accepting the release of more Palestinian prisoners in Israeli jails than perhaps the Israeli government wants to. But, this is a critical moment. I stand by what I said. In about 10 days, the holy month of Ramadan begins, and throughout this region, incidents like this that are being seen on television screens and on social media around the world will inflame the West Bank, the south of Lebanon, the north of Israel, the Palestinian camps in Jordan, and people concerned about the humanitarian situation here around the world.

I urged Prime Minister Netanyahu to recognize that its closest ally, the United States, will continue to stand by Israel, but they must respect their obligation to protect civilians and to facilitate the delivery of humanitarian aid. I think the United States should begin delivering humanitarian aid directly into Gaza by airdrop or sealift if we are not able to persuade our close ally Israel to open up more routes of access.

SOLOMON: Senator, can you give us a sense based on your conversations with Netanyahu, based on your conversations with the Defense Minister, what the appetite was if at all for a ceasefire? We heard Biden say earlier this week that he was hopeful that it would happen by Monday. He is now saying maybe not as early as Monday. But, what was the appetite in those conversations for any sort of temporary ceasefire?

COONS: The Prime Minister and Defense Minister made it clear that it is their intention to go into Rafah and to find and eliminate the remaining four combat brigades of Hamas that are embedded in Rafah. And so, that was their clear determination. They also understood that if there was the possibility of a hostage exchange and a ceasefire for 45 days or more that that would be a positive. But, they were also determined to, as the Prime Minister put it, finish the job. In other visits to Lebanon, to Jordan, to Iraq, it was clear to me that a ground assault into Rafah will have very negative consequences for the region.

And I think the United States has a critical role to play here in trying to de-escalate the ongoing conflict between Hezbollah and the IDF in the north of Israel, the ongoing conflict in Iraq with Iranian- supported militias and the ongoing conflict in the Red Sea.

[11:50:00]

At the moment, a of forceful response by the Biden administration after Iranians-backed militias killed three U.S. Army reservists has given us several weeks of peace in Iraq and in the region. But, the attacks by Hamas, by Hezbollah and the Houthis in the region continue. And so, a ceasefire would be an absolutely critical opportunity here, a pause to move forward the regional project of peace that is so desperately needed.

SOLOMON: Senator, I'm wondering -- I mean, obviously, we had the Michigan primaries earlier this week. You are a co-chair of President Biden's campaign. I'm wondering, certainly, there was a message sent in Michigan from the Arab community there about the White House's stance to the war in Gaza. I'm wondering if you think that we can expect to see a shifting stance from the White House, from President Biden moving forward, especially in light of what happened this morning. COONS: Look, the President has from the beginning of this conflict in

Gaza made it clear to Israel that the United States will back Israel and its defense, its obligation to protect its citizens, but expects them to allow humanitarian aid, facilitate humanitarian aid into Gaza and to protect civilians. Roughly 30,000 people have died in Gaza. Maybe 10,000 of them were Hamas fighters, but 20,000 of them were likely innocent women and children, Palestinians. I would expect that President Biden to the extent he changes direction or tone, it will be because of the circumstances on the ground.

Obviously, there was a message sent by voters in Michigan. And I know -- I'm certainly attuned to that. Many of us who are supporters of our President are attuned to that. This is tearing apart American families, those who have real concerns about the path forward in Gaza. And I think we are doing our very best to balance respect for the hostages who are still being held by Hamas, respect for Israelis whose sense of safety was shattered by the brutal attacks of October 7, and a deep respect for America's role in the world.

We have long been the largest donor to Palestinian assistance through UNRWA. The United States gives more to the care and feeding of Palestinians in camps in Jordan and Syria and Israel than any other nation. And this conflict is putting that into sharp relief, the tension between these two long-standing commitments of the United States.

SOLOMON: Senator, at what point does U.S. support for this operation in Gaza become untenable?

COONS: I think it becomes untenable when Israel demonstrates they are unwilling to listen to us. If they go ahead with a full-scale ground assault into Rafah without making any accommodations for providing for the safety of civilians, for allowing for the relocation of civilians outside the area of combat, I think that would be very difficult for us to sustain and to tolerate. President Biden has been very clear publicly and privately about this.

SOLOMON: But, Senator, realistically, what type of safeguards would that look like when you have 1.5 million people in Rafah in an area where before the war it was 300,000? I mean, it is an extremely densely populated area. I mean, realistically, what would those safeguards look like?

COONS: It would look like providing for the relocation of civilians to newly established camps elsewhere within Gaza. It is a monumental task. I find it hard to believe that it would be possible to carry out a military assault into Rafah without needlessly killing thousands, maybe tens of thousands of civilians. That's why I elevated my level of concern about this in my conversation with the Prime Minister and Defense Minister. It's almost undoable.

SOLOMON: Senator Chris Coons, we couldn't think of someone better to speak to on a day as monumental and as tragic as today, but we appreciate the time. Thank you.

COONS: Thank you. SOLOMON: And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:55:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BIANA GOLODRYGA, HOST, "ONE WORLD": Hello, everyone. Live from New York, I'm Bianna Golodryga. Zain is off. You are watching One World.

A toxic mix of hunger, desperation, and months of conflict, has led to devastating scenes and fresh tragedy in Gaza. Gaza's Health Ministry says more than 100 civilians were killed when Israeli troops opened fire on crowds waiting for food in Gaza City.