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Biden and Trump Both Visit Border; Civilians Killed in Gaza. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired February 29, 2024 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:35]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: You are in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.

At this hour, we're following major breaking news out of Gaza, hundreds of civilians caught in the chaos of the Israel-Hamas war.

And a warning to our viewers: The videos you're about to see are graphic and very disturbing. The Palestinian Red Crescent, as well as several eyewitnesses, now say hungry civilians were simply waiting in line for food in Western Gaza City when Israeli tanks and drones opened fire on the crowd.

Gaza's Health Ministry says more than 100 people were killed and nearly 800 injured. CNN is unable to independently confirm these numbers. A local journalist on the scene says most of the deaths came from the chaos that erupted when aid trucks tried to escape the gunfire.

The IDF says the incident is under review. The U.N. aid chief saying moments ago -- and I'm quoting now -- "Life is draining out of Gaza at terrifying speed."

Last hour, President Biden told reporters that he knows this violence will complicate any negotiations for a temporary cease-fire, but he's still hopeful.

CNN's Jeremy Diamond is live in Tel Aviv for us right now.

I know you're working this with a lot of sources, Jeremy. What are you learning?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, based on eyewitness accounts, here's what we understand happened.

A convoy of aid trucks crossed into a neighborhood in Western Gaza City -- this is in the northern part of Gaza -- within moments, Wolf, thousands of people began swarming around those aid trucks, trying to desperately get aid that those trucks were carrying.

We're then told that, within minutes of those trucks crossing into Northern Gaza, the Israeli military opened fire. This is according to our journalist Khader al Zaanoun, a local journalist who's been working with us, and other eyewitnesses on the ground.

That Israeli military gunfire killed and wounded perhaps a couple of dozen people, but the majority of deaths that ensued in this incident happened as the drivers of those trucks, amid the gunfire, amid the chaos drove away, running over several people.

We're told, according to the Palestinian Ministry of Health, 104 people were killed in this incident, 760 were injured. But, Wolf, the Israeli military is offering a different narrative. They say that the gunfire happened after there was already a stampede of people, after the drivers of these trucks had already run over people.

And they're describing it, Wolf, as separate incidents. They say that a group of Palestinians in that area approached that Israeli military checkpoint where those trucks had come in, that the Israeli military says that those individuals approached that checkpoint in a threatening manner and that the Israeli military then opened fire.

But we should note, Wolf, that that contradicts eyewitness accounts on the ground, including local journalist Khader al Zaanoun, who I spoke with earlier today. But the bottom line, Wolf, is that 104 people are dead, hundreds more are injured, and all this is happening because of the desperate humanitarian situation that currently exists in Northern Gaza.

About a half-a-million people there are currently on the brink of famine. Very little aid has been able to actually get into Northern Gaza because of the dangerous security situation, because aid groups have not been able to get aid into Northern Gaza.

And so what little aid is able to get in, Wolf, people are desperate for. Right now, those people who are hungry have been surviving on animal feed, on grass, on soupy mixtures made with dirty water that they are able to obtain.

And so what you have here, when you put together that desperate situation, a lack of security for these aid convoys, and then apparently the Israeli military opening fire, all of that is a very desperate and a very deadly combination -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Very sad, indeed. Jeremy Diamond in Tel Aviv for us, thank you very much.

Joining us now from Tel Aviv himself, the IDF spokesman, Lieutenant Colonel Peter Lerner.

Colonel, thank you so much for joining us.

I want your perspective. How does this incident happen? It's an awful incident, as the entire world is now seeing. Why did IDF forces, first of all, open fire on hungry Palestinian civilians simply in desperate need of food?

[11:05:02]

COL. PETER LERNER, SPOKESMAN, ISRAELI DEFENSE FORCES: Wolf, we have to understand, first of all, that the reality is quite different.

The IDF coordinated access for humanitarian goods that are in dire need in the Northern Gaza Strip. This is precisely the convoy that went in, over 30 trucks. And, then, indeed, this is the activities that we have been conducting over the last week or so in order to get more goods into the Northern Gaza Strip for the needs of the people up there in Northern Gaza.

In the early hours of this morning, we understand that the convoy passed through the Israeli positions and continued to move forward, continued to move north. As they moved forward, an amount of people, a huge amount of people, as we clearly shared in the visuals that we distributed, stormed and stampeded the truckloads.

As they climbed upon, they were pushing, they were shoving. People were trampled and also run over, as Jeremy Diamond rightly pointed out. And this is the reality of the mass casualty event that transpired afterwards.

In a separate event at a different location further south, out away from the convoy, indeed, as Jeremy rightly pointed out, people approached the forces that, first of all, fired warning shots in the air. And we have to keep in mind this is a combat zone.

And our forces are confronted with explosive devices that Hamas terrorists have attached to the tanks, RPGs, weapons, all different types of attacks. So, when people that are perceived as a threat continue to move forward towards the forces, despite the warning shots, the threat is still perceived.

And, indeed, there is a handful of people that have been killed in this incident or wounded that we are not entirely certain of the figure, but it is a tragedy that is developing. We are operating in order to maintain operational activity and combat on one hand, and maintain the ongoing flow of humanitarian goods, humanitarian supplies on the other.

BLITZER: Let me interrupt you for a moment, Colonel, because, as you heard, eyewitnesses on the scene, they strongly dispute the IDF, the Israel Defense Forces, account, the account you're presenting right now.

They say the Israeli military opened fire first on people near the trucks, causing them to panic and the truck drivers to simply drive away. What evidence, if any, do you have, Colonel, to support the IDF account?

LERNER: Well, we have distributed extensive video footage sharing the process and the movement of the trucks as they were moving forward, as they continue to go, as they plowed through some of the people. Nothing to do with our forces at this time.

Of course, I will say we're continuing to investigate, continuing to inquire in our after-actions activities. This is continuing. We're continuing to look into it. But this is the facts. This is what we know at this time. BLITZER: Because the drone video that you released -- and we have been showing it to our viewers here in the United States and indeed around the world -- doesn't show trucks driving into the crowds.

It also doesn't show Israeli forces opening fire. Do you have other video, Colonel, of those incidents? And, if you do, will you release that video.

LERNER: So, I have been following CNN quite extensively.

Unfortunately, you're only showing a small fraction of the video footage that we have -- that we have shared. There are a couple of minutes there, and you see the trucks moving and the people swarming the truckloads stampeding, trying to take the goods and loot the goods off of the trucks, the humanitarian assistance.

It's international assistance that was being supplied in the northern areas of the Gaza Strip, precisely for the -- for the requirements and the needs of the people. Unfortunately, this is a situation that we are facing, and we are understanding that there is a dire situation.

The humanitarian aid needs to arrive in its place. And you know that the reality is, as we push forward, that we will continue to coordinate and facilitate the access of humanitarian goods.

BLITZER: Those trucks that were bringing in this desperately needed food Colonel, where were they from? Were these U.N. trucks? What kind of trucks who were providing this food for the folks in Gaza?

LERNER: The understanding and the information that I have at hand is, that was international aid by governments that was supplied that came on in private truckloads to move north.

I have also received in the last few minutes one report that, actually, gunmen within -- within the Northern Gaza Strip opened fire and killed one of the drivers, actually. So we're still investigating. There's still more information coming in.

We will keep you posted and we will make announcements accordingly.

BLITZER: The U.N. says more than half-a-million people in Gaza right now -- and I'm quoting now from this U.N. statement -- these people are -- quote -- "one step away from famine," half-a-million people.

Critics have accused Israel, as you know, of using hunger as a weapon of war. Colonel, how do you respond to that charge?

[11:10:00]

LERNER: We need to do everything in order to alleviate the humanitarian situation.

The IDF is coordinating with the international players, with governments. There are access points from Rafah and from Kerem Shalom, where hundreds of truckloads of supplies are coming in every single day. They need to be distributed. They need to reach the people that are in dire need.

And I would add we're also coordinating airdrops from the sky, whether it's from different governments. And I also heard that this morning I saw that there -- the U.S. and Canada are also considering that. I'm sure that we can facilitate more access. There is no limit on the amount of humanitarian aid and supplies that can get into Gaza.

We are facilitating that and coordinating that. We have been almost for five months. We need to get the aid to the people that actually need it.

BLITZER: This really horrible incident today comes as the Palestinian Health Ministry now says more than 30,000 people have been killed in Gaza, the majority of whom are women and children.

So here's the question. Why is Israel not doing more to limit these casualties?

LERNER: So, let's correct ourselves just one second there.

It's the Hamas Ministry of Health. I wouldn't trust the ISIS Ministry of Health. I wouldn't trust the al Qaeda Ministry of Health. I don't trust the Hamas Ministry of Health. In this war, we have killed up to now over 12,000 terrorists, Hamas terrorists, Palestinian Islamic Jihad terrorists in combat or in precision strikes.

Indeed, it is a deep tragedy that civilians are caught up in this war. It's a war Israel never asked for. It was a war Israel was surprised from on the 7th of October, when Hamas decided to launch a war against Israel, attacking, killing, murdering, massacring and abducting 240 Israelis and foreign nationals into Gaza.

There are still 134 Israelis being held by Hamas. This war can end today. Hamas can let them go and unconditionally surrender, and there will be no more need for war. But there is one very, very clear thing that everybody agrees upon. Hamas have to go. The paradigm has to change for the safety and security for all decent people in this region.

BLITZER: You probably saw the report. CNN investigated an incident back in early January, Colonel, in which the IDF said they were attacking militants in Central Gaza.

But experts tell CNN, tell us you used a 2,000-pound bomb and that half of the Abu Jibba family was killed by the shockwave alone. The family says they were never warned. Why did the IDF feel it was appropriate to use this level of military force?

LERNER: So, as we rightly said in our response to the inquiries of CNN, the IDF conducted a strike against an enemy target.

There was a lot -- watching the report, there was a lot of supposition and not fact-based analysis, which is unfortunate. I would say Hamas have weaponized the civilian arena, to an extent where they have no regard for civilian lives, Israelis or Palestinian. And so when we are going after Hamas' leadership, and when they are

hiding in the civilian arena, there are civilian consequences. But we need to do everything we can to evacuate people from harm's way. We have called on evacuation areas. We have directed people out of harm's way. We have -- indeed, and throughout the course of this war, CNN has covered extensively the vast tunnel network.

I remember, Wolf, in 2014, when you had access to the tunnels. This is an industry of terror and hate. It has to go. It has to end. The people, Israelis and Palestinians, are paying too dear a price because of this failed leadership of Hamas.

BLITZER: Is Israel going to continue to use those 2,000-pound bombs?

LERNER: Israel uses the munitions that are both precision and guided, but also based on the need of the military necessity.

That is primary in all of our activities. We base our munitions, without specifying what munitions we use, specifically based on the military necessity and the goal we are trying to achieve in the specific strike. So, of course, we will utilize the tools in order to -- within the realm of laws of armed conflict, based on distinction, based on precaution, but also based on military necessity, Wolf.

BLITZER: Colonel Peter Lerner of the IDF, thank you so much for joining us.

LERNER: Thank you. Good day.

BLITZER: A lot to discuss now.

Joining us, CNN's chief international anchor, Christiane Amanpour -- she's joining us from London -- and our chief national security correspondent, Alex Marquardt.

Christiane, let me get your immediate reaction to what we just heard from Colonel Lerner. How much will this incident further fuel the global condemnation of the way Israel has been conducting this war in Gaza?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Well, you can imagine that it will fuel it and it will increase it.

Even the great friend of Israel Tom Friedman of "The New York Times," his latest column, from around the region, including Israel allies like India and the rest, he's noting a very, very marked increase in the questioning, in the disagreement with the tactics, the strategy that Israel is using in Gaza and with the mounting death toll.

[11:15:15]

So, the answer to that is that it will continue to impact Israel negatively in the international community and also in the United States, where you can see it's playing a very, very significant role.

But I just would like to say that, look, CNN itself, with all the rigors of a CNN investigation, geolocating and cross-checking, found that, on February 5, Israel fired at an aid convoy. This is not the first time.

I have been interviewed -- or, rather, have been interviewing major, major humanitarian and other leaders, like the Norwegian Refugee Council, UNRWA, and they're telling me that they can barely get their trucks in.

The quote is from the U.N. that delivery into Gaza by any kind of aid delivery has halved in the last month. That's half of what it was just in the last month. So, where we're meant to see this increase in aid and facility for aid going in is just not happening.

And we're told by heads of government around the region, let's say in Egypt and other places, where there are hundreds of trucks lined up, for instance, at Rafah, that it is minute combing through every truck that prevents these aid deliveries going in.

We're told that, yes, when trucks do get in, they are surrounded because of the desperation right now. I'm told by the head of a -- the major aid agency, by Jan Egeland, that this is not looting, per se. This is taking stuff in order to give to their starving families.

So it is a complete crisis. But I think what everybody has to really understand is that, by word of the Israeli government and the Israeli prime minister and the IDF, the only people responsible for security in Gaza are the Israelis. They are the only people, no more police. They have been bombed, the blue-coated, blue uniform police.

They cannot deal with law and order. So there's an increasing anarchy. Who are these 30 trucks? It was not clear from Colonel Lerner who they are. But there needs to be really proper, disciplined security that comes in with these aid trucks, as I have found in covering these kinds of desperate food distributions from Bosnia to Somalia and elsewhere.

So it's a really, really difficult and dire situation right now.

BLITZER: It's a heartbreaking situation, indeed.

Alex, we're getting new reaction from the White House, and specifically from President Biden, to this latest incident.

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, they're calling it a serious incident, and they're looking into these reports.

But, Wolf, in speaking with sources since this happened, it is clear that they feel that this adds urgency to the cease-fire talks, to these discussions that the U.S. is mediating. I spoke with one official who said that it -- that this makes it that much more critical to get to a cease-fire.

Now, you remember, just a few days ago, President Biden predicted that a cease-fire could start as early as Monday. There's a bit of disagreement about that. The president... BLITZER: He backed away from it today.

MARQUARDT: He did. In fact, he was just asked about this moments ago. Here's a bit more of what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: Do you still expect a cease-fire is possible by Monday, sir?

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Hope springs eternal.

QUESTION: And what is...

BIDEN: I was on the telephone with the people in the region. I'm still hopeful. Probably not by Monday, but I'm hopeful.

QUESTION: You know what happened in Gaza City. More than 100 civilians were killed.

BIDEN: I have just -- we're checking that out right now. There are two competing versions of what happened. I don't have an answer to that.

QUESTION: Are you worried that that will complicate those negotiations?

BIDEN: I know it will.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUARDT: He's saying there that he knows that it will complicate these conversations, and it certainly will.

I think the question, Wolf, is does it derail the conversations or does it accelerate these conversations? Certainly, there is an urgency to them. One senior U.S. official telling me they believe that this will accelerate these conversations to try to get to that cease-fire.

President Biden there acknowledging that it's almost certainly not going to happen by Monday. He did talk about who he's been speaking with in the region. I have just confirmed that he did speak with the Qatari emir earlier today, Secretary Blinken also speaking with his Qatari counterpart.

So, the mediators in this conversation are speaking, clearly, there, trying to very -- as soon as possible get to this temporary cease- fire.

BLITZER: Yes, let's hope that happens and saves a lot of lives potentially and maybe even release some of those hostages as well.

Christiane, does the U.S. have -- does United States have any levers left right now, levers to pull to apply more pressure on Israel's government of Prime Minister Netanyahu to at least get some sort of temporary cease-fire? AMANPOUR: Absolutely.

And further to what Alex was just saying, at least here, the United States has a similar view to what Hamas has. A senior Hamas leader has come out and said that this incident has potentially risked any kind of early or soon cease-fire in this situation.

[11:20:08]

But here's the thing. I was speaking to various world leaders at the Munich Security Conference. The bottom line is that the only government with any influence over the Israeli government is the United States government, because it supplies the weapons and all the support and aid that it has historically done for Israel.

It's its biggest supporter in the international community, its biggest supporter at the U.N. And, therefore, many world leaders, including close European allies, are simply gobsmacked -- and that's my interpretation of their astonishment -- at how Prime Minister Netanyahu is constantly and repeatedly and increasingly denying and countering any advice from the United States, just basically saying no to everything the United States requires and requests.

So is the United States prepared to enact its key leverage? And that, of course, is weapons delivery? This is an open political question. And I don't know. That is a debate. But what's clear, as I have heard from the leading international donors, is that this is up to Israel, with the United States and, to an extent, Egypt, to fix.

And I'm talking about the immediate delivery of aid into Gaza, which is required, which is absolutely part of what the United States says must happen, all Israel's allies say must happen. Israel itself says that aid must get in, and poor, innocent civilians who've got nothing to do with Hamas should not be punished.

This is what Jan Egeland told me, having seen Gaza for the first time since October 7.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAN EGELAND, SECRETARY-GENERAL, NORWEGIAN REFUGEE COUNCIL: I mean, it's beyond belief that people who are mourning, of course, the worst massacre in the history of Israel on the 7th of October would believe that taking away food from children and women, completely innocent, had nothing to do with the 7th of October, could -- can, in any way, help the poor hostages here.

The Hamas militants have food, and they are in tunnels. They have nothing to do with the people that we aid. The chaos, yes, around the aid line is becoming worse and worse because there's so little aid coming in.

Today, I'm pretty shaken actually from what I saw. The minute we crossed the border from orderly and sparsely populated Sinai, you see the a trucks going full speed down the road being chased by gangs of youth who, jumped the trucks, and before our eyes, loot mattresses, blankets, food, et cetera, to the desperate people outside who want to get some aid.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: So it's born of desperation.

And don't forget that the Israeli defense minister on October 9 or so said that there would be a complete and blanket siege of any goods into Gaza, including food, water, and the like.

Now, this is against international law. No besieged community under war should be denied basic food and water. And the fact that it is denied is creating these panics, which inevitably was going to lead to something like happened today.

Now, the question is, does it concentrate mines? Does it refocus on the vital necessity to protect and supply civilians, even amid a war? We have seen these situations before, and they really need to be organized. And, as I said, Israel is the only people, by their own admission, by their own volition, to be in charge of security inside Gaza.

And just one anecdote, Wolf, the head of one of the -- the head of UNRWA told me that even animal fodder is running out in Gaza. And I'm like, animal fodder? And he said, yes, because people are eating animal fodder, and even animal fodder is running out. So that's how desperate the situation is.

And that's why you see pictures of people who are rushing towards any truck that comes in.

BLITZER: Christiane Amanpour and Alex Marquardt, to both of you, thank you very, very much.

We're, of course, going to stay on top of this breaking story.

Also still ahead this hour: Both Trump and Biden visit the southern border today. Their proposals and how to fix it are very different, but the stakes are equally high. We will go live to Texas, along the border with Mexico, when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Just moments ago, President Biden departed Joint Base Andrews outside of Washington, D.C., for Brownsville, Texas, near the southern border with Mexico, while Donald Trump is also on his way to Eagle Pass along the border with Mexico later today.

The two likely November rivals are preparing to pitch their clashing messages on immigration at dueling events later today.

CNN's Priscilla Alvarez is joining us from Brownsville, Texas, right now. Once again, that's where President Biden will be meeting with border officials later this afternoon.

What else can we expect from the president's trip, Priscilla? PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, Wolf, the White

House and Biden campaign officials clearly see an opportunity here to seize on border security.

[11:30:00]