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Gaza Health Ministry: 100+ Killed While Waiting for Food; Biden, Trump Visit the Border; Putin Does Nuclear Saber-Rattling Over Ukraine; Massive Hike in Fuel Prices Hitting Cuba Friday; Brazil and France Call for Billionaires to Pay Fair Share. Aired 12-12:45a ET
Aired March 01, 2024 - 00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOHN VAUSE, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Ahead this hour on CNN, blood for food. The agonizing choice for almost everyone in Gaza. Hunker down and starve to death or risk being killed while waiting in line for food.
[00:01:35]
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's real simple. It's time to act.
DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is a Joe Biden invasion. This is a Biden invasion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Showdown on the U.S.-Mexico border over immigration. Biden offers compromise to find a solution. Trump blames Biden for a non- existent immigrant crime wave.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): They must ultimately understand that we also have weapons.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: And the Russian president warns the West, sending troops to Ukraine would risk starting a nuclear war.
ANNOUNCER: Live from Atlanta, this is CNN NEWSROOM with John Vause.
VAUSE: More details are slowly emerging about how more than 100 people were killed in the early hours of Thursday morning in Gaza, one of the worst single tragedies since Israel's war with Hamas began almost five months ago.
A warning: video from the scene is graphic.
These images were recorded from high above by an IDF drone. Before dawn, an aid convoy arrives in Gaza City and is swarmed by hundreds of people. And then, according to witnesses, Israeli forces opened fire. The health ministry in Gaza reports at least 112 people killed, close
to 800 injured. Many were trampled in the chaos, others run down by drivers of the aid trucks trying to escape the gunfire.
But according to the Israeli military, warning, shots were fired by nearby tanks which were there to secure the area for aid distribution. And Israeli forces opened fire only on Palestinians who were approaching in a threatening manner.
Now, a senior Hamas leader has one hostage, and ceasefire talks are in doubt. Here's the U.S. president, Joe Biden.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you know what happened in Gaza City? More than 100 civilians were killed.
BIDEN: We're checking that out right now. There's two competing versions of what happened. I don't have an answer yet.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you worried that that will complicate negotiations?
BIDEN: I know it will.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Keep in mind: the reason why those aid trucks were being looted is because of a desperate shortage of humanitarian assistance, which has left many in Gaza now at risk of famine.
The Israeli government says a review is underway and described the incident as a tragedy. More details now from CNN's Jeremy Diamond. And once again, a warning: some of the images in his report are graphic.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Around 4 in the morning, thousands of Palestinians are already camped out by the coastal road in Western Gaza City humanitarian aid trucks are reportedly en route, a rarity in Northern Gaza, where hundreds of thousands are now on the brink of famine.
As the convoy passes and Israeli military checkpoint and enters Gaza City, hundreds desperate for food swarmed the trucks, as seen in this drone video released by the Israeli military. Many climb onto the trucks, grabbing what they can, when suddenly --
(GUNFIRE)
DIAMOND (voice-over): -- the Israeli military opens fire, killing, and wounding about 20 people in the crowd, according to local journalist Khader Al-Zaanoun (ph), who was on the scene.
Pandemonium ensues. As people run away, eyewitnesses say the truck drivers speed off, killing dozens more people. The Palestinian Ministry of Health says at least 112 people were
killed altogether and more than 700 injured. CNN cannot independently confirm those numbers.
The Israeli military acknowledges its troops shot people near the convoy, but says the gunfire was unrelated and came after people were already killed in a stampede.
[00:05:09]
LT. COL. PETER LERNER, ISRAEL DEFENSE FORCES SPOKESPERSON: In a second event and in a short distance away, we also had a group of people that approached the military forces in a war zone. The forces opened fire in the air to distance them, warning fire, in order to get people out of harm's way.
Unfortunately, they proceeded to advance and, indeed, their perceived threat and the forces opened fire. Of course, I will say we're continuing to investigate, continuing to inquire in after actions, activities.
DIAMOND (voice-over): That account contradicted by eyewitnesses, who say Israeli gunfire triggered the mass panic.
NEMA ABU SULTAN, WITNESS (through translator): Our children die of hunger. They went to get a bag of flour in order to feed their children. Some were run over; others were shot. So they send us the aid so the Israelis can keep shooting at our children. This is wrong. This is not right. This is not right.
DIAMOND (voice-over): The latest victims killed on a day when the death toll in Gaza surpassed 30,000, according to the Palestinian Ministry of Health, a majority of whom are women and children.
More may soon die of starvation as the World Food Programme warns that more than half a million Gazans are on the brink of famine.
PHILIPPE LAZZARINI, UNRWA COMMISSIONER GENERAL: We are talking about a man-made famine, because we have a kind of total blockage for the people want living in the North. There is not even enough of animal food, animal fodder for people to eat or to do bread with animal fodder.
DIAMOND (voice-over): That desperation brought Tamar Atta Al-Shubari (ph) to that coastal road early Thursday morning.
He went to get a bit of bread, a bag of flour for his family, displaced at the schools (ph) in Jabalya camp. Now he lies dead, killed while trying to survive.
Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Tel Aviv.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: Live now to Tel Aviv. And joining us is IDF spokesperson, Lieutenant Colonel Peter Lerner. Peter, good morning. Thank you. Good to see you. Thank you for being with us.
LERNER: Good morning, Joe.
VAUSE: So in the immediate hours after this tragedy, Mark Regev, senior adviser to the Israeli prime minister, told CNN Israel was not directly involved, suggested maybe Palestinian militants played some role. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK REGEV, SENIOR ADVISOR TO ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: There was gunfire, but it wasn't Israeli forces. They want Israeli forces on the trucks around the trucks. That was Palestinian armed groups. We don't know if it was Hamas or other armed groups, but there definitely was fire. That we do know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: With the benefit of time came new video from an Israeli drone to support a different version, which came from the IDF spokesman, Daniel Hagari. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANIEL HAGARI, IDF SPOKESMAN: The tanks that were there to secure the convoy sees the Gazans being trampled and cautiously tries to disperse the mob with a few warning shots. When the hundreds became thousands and things got out -- out of hand, the tank commander decided to retreat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: So a couple of questions just with regards to this. Can you explain how that drone video supports the IDF claim that Israeli troops fired just a few warning shots?
LERNER: John, what we actually know -- and this is what we have understanding, of course this is a developing investigation over the course of the last 24 hours or so.
And indeed, as Rear Admiral Hagari pointed out, we know from the video footage from the surveillance and from the forces on the ground precisely how things transpired.
And indeed, the huge amount of people that stormed the trucks as they were in movement, and they continued to move, was the result of the mass casualty event that resulted -- and you've reported extensively our posture across the -- the mission, the operation was to secure the routes.
And indeed, when our forces were under the perceived threat, being approached in a combat zone. And after firing warning shots to those -- to those that were approaching them, we did engage. And then later retreat. The reality is one that's -- you know, our forces faced a 360-degree
threat when they're operating on the ground. Terrorists, they don't wear uniforms. Hamas terrorists, they wear sandals, sneakers and sweatpants.
And they come up to our vehicles, and they try and place explosive devices on them.
So anybody approaching those vehicles, those tanks or the armed personnel carriers that are operating in the Gaza Strip is a -- is a perceived threat.
This is the situation, but the account is precisely that.
VAUSE: Why was the video edited?
LERNER: It wasn't. We gave several minutes of the -- of the footage for the public distribution. We've given accounts and visuals and visual aids to under -- so that you can better understand exactly where the rampage of the truck took place and where our forces were positioned.
[00:10:16]
That was how we have packaged the content, with extensive interviews and also Rear Admiral Hagari's press conference yesterday. So there's a lot of information that we continue to bring to the public as the investigation proceeded.
VAUSE: In the interest of transparency, would it be of Israel's benefit to release the entire video of the incident from beginning to end?
LERNER: I don't think there's anything that is missing from the image -- imagery from what I -- what I understand. Indeed, that is what we have released, and it proves and shows exactly the magnitude of the amounts of people that actually stormed the convoy.
I think what is really important on this convoy is a humanitarian mission that the IDF was coordinating, the IDF was securing. And indeed, facilitating in -- with international partners. And bringing in the food into the North is a mission that we are devoted to and concerned with, because of the situation in the North.
VAUSE: OK. So beyond the details of who shot when and where. A U.N. spokesperson touched on what you're saying there, that this underlying tragedy is a result of a desperate shortage of food right now, especially in Northern Gaza. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANE DUJARRIC, UNITED NATIONS SPOKESPERSON: The way we operate right now is not safe. And I've said -- I said even yesterday, it is not safe for those people who deliver the aid. It is not safe for people who receive the aid.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: The argument is, if more humanitarian assistance had been allowed into Gaza in the first place, then thousands of people would not need to risk their lives at 4 a.m. for a bag of flour.
So how willing is Israel now to try and increase the flow of food and other supplies into Gaza? And if that is the case, how soon and by how much?
LERNER: John, I can tell you what we're doing currently and what we have been doing for several weeks now.
We've been coordinating an increased access of food supplies, medical supplies, both through Rafah from Egypt and also through Kerem Shalom. So much so that the U.N. organizations couldn't keep up with the pace.
The bottleneck was on the Palestinian side of Kerem Shalom.
We're also coordinating extensive air drops, which are taking place almost every day. Yesterday, we had an airdrop from Jordan also in the North and in the South of Gaza.
And this is just what two components of maintaining and increasing that capacity that you talked about.
LERNER: Absolutely. We understand that there is a situation that needs to be addressed. There is still -- it's still an active war zone, and this is what complicates everything.
Our forces are still fighting in the area of Zaytoun against Hamas terrorists, which is not far away from where the incident happened yesterday.
So there's a lot of challenges we need to make the humanitarian access available on one hand, but we also need to keep in mind why we are at war. We're at war because Hamas opened war on the 7th of October. And now we're in a mission to dismantle, destroy them; bring home the hostages, 134 of them, every last one of them; and create a better security reality for Israelis and, I would add, for Palestinians, as well.
VAUSE: No one agrees with that more than the United States. And even the United States, U.S. State Department, is demanding more access, more distribution and safer access for Palestinians in Gaza. Demands coming from other countries, as well. But listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEW MILLER, U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESPERSON: We continue to make clear in all of our discussions with government of Israel that all possible measures must be taken to allow the entry of more assistance into Gaza through as many points of access as possible. And to enable safe and secure distribution of that aid throughout Gaza.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: And right now, the U.N., the U.N. is warning that more than half a million people in Gaza are one step away from famine.
At this moment, the IDF, Israel is in control of Gaza, regardless whether they like the -- the legalities may be to that. There are moral obligations, right?
Do you accept the fact that Israel has an obligation to ensure safe access to food, water, and other essential supplies.
LERNER: Joel, I would absolutely agree that we have responsibility to conduct our operations in accordance to the laws of armed conflict. I would absolutely suggest that that is precisely what we're doing.
And that includes maintaining open channels, maintaining open flow of food. I will add to -- to the efforts that were going to, we're currently reviewing the possibility of adding an access point to the Northern areas.
Of course, that also comes under threat and under challenges, security challenges, as well. So we need to work in -- I would say coordination with our international partners, with international humanitarian organizations. We are very attentive to the U.S. administration and the concerns that they are raising, of course, and other allies, as well.
And we are determined to achieve our goals on one hand and maintain the humanitarian mission on the other hand. It's the right thing to do. And it will also help us achieve our military goal.
[00:15:11]
VAUSE: Lieutenant Colonel Peter Lerner, thank you so much, sir, being with us. We appreciate your time. Thank you.
LERNER: Have a good day.
VAUSE: Well, in Bangladesh, dozens are dead, at least 22 are in critical condition after a fire started in a restaurant and then quickly spread through a multi-story building in the capital, Dhaka on Thursday night. He's how one restaurant worker describes how he escaped while his co- workers did not.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): When the fire started in the front and broke the glass, our cashier and servicemen got everyone out, but both of them later died. I went to the kitchen, broke a window and jumped to save myself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: The Bangladesh fire service director says the blaze could have originated from a gas leak or stove; describes the building as dangerous, with gas cylinders on every floor, even on the staircases.
Fires are common in the densely populated capital, which has experienced a boom in new construction, often without proper safety measures.
Now to the U.S.-Mexico border where Donald Trump and Joe Biden were 300 miles apart for a showdown over immigration on Thursday, Trump travel to Eagle Pass, Texas, considered the epicenter of the migrant crisis, and ramped up the scare tactics.
He said terrorists, convicts, and the mentally ill are all being allowed into the United States.
Joe Biden, while in Brownsville, stressed the need for new bipartisan border policies and said, Let's work together.
CNN's Rosa Flores has details.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Eagle Pass resident Enriqueta Diaz couldn't be more pleased with the dueling border appearances from both President Joe Biden and former President Donald Trump.
ENRIQUETA DIAZ, EAGLE PASS RESIDENT: Yes!
FLORES: That's your reaction?
DIAZ: Yes!
FLORES (voice-over): She says she's voting for Trump this election? And hopes the former president's visit to her hometown sends a much- needed message.
TRUMP: Texas is very secure.
FLORES (voice-over): Eagle Pass is where Texas Governor Greg Abbott deployed the controversial border buoys and took over a public park by putting up razor wire, guarding it with armed Texas National Guard soldiers and kicking out Border Patrol.
It's the park Trump toured and where he was briefed by Texas authorities.
TRUMP: The United States is being overrun by the Biden migrant crime. It's a new form of vicious violation to our country. It's migrant crime.
FLORES (voice-over): Some Eagle Pass residents gathered in protest, asking that Trump leave their town.
JESSIE FUENTES, EAGLE PASS BORDER COALITION: The hate that you're going to spew today, you're not welcome in this community.
FLORES (voice-over): Several hundred miles downriver, President Joe Biden in Brownsville today. Biden meeting with Border Patrol agents, law enforcement, and local leaders as he pushes for a bipartisan immigration deal. JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's time to step up,
provide them with significantly more personnel and capability. We also need more immigration judges.
FLORES (voice-over): The last time Biden visited the Brownsville area, it was election season 2019. At the time, Jill Biden visited a migrant camp across the border in Matamoros, Mexico, as her husband promised humane border policies.
Some in Brownsville took to the streets today to remind him of those promises.
Biden's job on the border could get exponentially more complicated. The plaintiffs in a federal lawsuit are asking a judge to rule that migrant children and their families who have just crossed the border into Southern California and are waiting in makeshift camps to be transported for immigration processing are actually in federal custody.
Attorney Neha Desai says the conditions are deplorable. Some migrant children have waited outside for days in the cold with no food.
NEHA DESAI, ATTORNEY: Children have had no choice but to take refuge in overflowing porta-potties to sleep and tarps littered with trash, all to just avoid the freezing rain.
FLORES (voice-over): CNN reached out to U.S. Customs and Border Protection for comment.
Back in Eagle Pass, Diaz, the hardcore Trump supporter --
FLORES: Tell me how you really feel about it.
DIAZ: Yes!
FLORES (voice-over): -- says that, like Trump, Biden is also politicking on the border.
DIAZ: I don't like his policies, but I respect him. It's an honor to have the president of United States visit your community. I don't care what party you are.
FLORES: The irony of it all is it neither President Biden or former President Trump actually visited the busiest part of the border, where the most migrant apprehensions are happening right now.
That's actually in another state, in the state of Arizona.
Now, you got a glimpse of this in our story, but this border battle between the state of Texas and the federal government has really changed this community, where I am here in Eagle Pass.
And I don't mean just physically. Yes, a lot of razor wire has gone up. There's razor wire around the public park and around the golf course.
I mean, the people of this community, it's dividing them along lines that were invisible before.
[00:20:06]
Rosa Flores, CNN, Eagle Pass, Texas.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: When we come back here on CNN, it's been awhile since the Russian president has warned of nuclear war. It seems talk of sending Western troops to Ukraine was enough reason to dust off the old threat.
Also ahead, who's trying to sabotage the funeral of the Russian opposition leader, Alexei Navalny? We'll have more details on that in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VAUSE: During his annual state of the nation address, Russian President Vladimir Putin had a blunt warning for the West: sending troops to Ukraine runs the risk of nuclear conflict.
Putin noted that Russia has weapons which can strike Western targets. These remarks are in response, it seems, to French President Emmanuel Macron, who on Monday suggested sending Western troops to help Ukraine should not be off the table to prevent a Russian victory.
CNN's Brian Todd has more now on Putin's pushback against the idea of troops in Ukraine.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Russian president, using his annual state of the nation address to disparage the United States.
PUTIN (through translator): They just want to show their citizens and everyone else that they still rule the world.
TODD (voice-over): And threaten the U.S. and NATO.
PUTIN (through translator): All of this is very dangerous, as it could trigger the use of nuclear weapons and, therefore, the destruction of civilization. Don't they understand that? They must ultimately understand that we also have weapons that can hit targets in their territory.
TODD (voice-over): Remarks, seemingly in response to an idea floated this week by French President Emmanuel Macron, who said the possibility of sending Western troops to Ukraine can't be ruled out.
KEITH DARDEN, PROFESSOR, AMERICAN UNIVERSITY: Macron, in many ways, gave Putin a gift. For Putin, the idea that Western boots might be on the ground, rather than just Western weapons and support, is exactly the kind of framing that he needs for his domestic audience about this war. TODD (voice-over): Referring to Macron's comments, Putin made an
apparent reference to previous attempted invasions of Russia by Adolf Hitler and Napoleon, warning this time, it would be worse.
PUTIN (through translator): We remember the fate of those who once sent their contingents to the territory of our country. But now the consequences for possible interventionists will be much more tragic.
TODD (voice-over): Putin has repeatedly made veiled threats to use nuclear weapons since the Ukraine war started.
SAMUEL CHARAP, SENIOR POLITICAL SCIENTIST, RAND: I think the rhetoric has been about sending a deterrent message to the U.S. and its NATO allies.
TODD (voice-over): This's year speech from Putin takes on more significance, because in about two weeks, Russia will hold its presidential elections.
The former KGB colonel is assured of victory, but the Kremlin has still mounted a major publicity campaign ahead of the vote. Putin's speech was shown in movie theaters, put up on billboards.
[00:25:01]
CHARAP: I think reframing this war as one between Russia and NATO is going to play well. The Russian public still has difficulty adjusting to the idea that Ukrainians are their enemies.
TODD (voice-over): One of Putin's worst enemies meanwhile, is about to be laid to rest. The funeral of opposition leader Alexei Navalny, who mysteriously died recently he in an arctic Russian gulag, is scheduled for Friday in Moscow.
Navalny's widow is concerned that Putin's security forces will crack down on mourners.
DARDEN: He very much does not not want Navalny's legacy to be continued as a martyr, as a public figure. He wants to send the signal that no opposition will be tolerated.
TODD: Responding to Putin's threat to use nuclear weapons, a State Department spokesperson said, "That's no way for the leader of a nuclear armed state to speak."
But he also said the U.S. sees no sign that Russia is preparing to use a nuclear weapon.
Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: And Navalny's aides continued to raise concerns the funeral for the late opposition leader could be sabotaged.
Services begin in less than six hours in the Church of the Icon of the Mother of God. Then comes his burial in a nearby cemetery in Moscow.
Aides say they were turned away by multiple venues which have been asked to host the funeral. One venue reportedly said they were forbidden from dealing with Navalny's team.
They also couldn't find a hearse or gravediggers, saying some drivers claim they received anonymous phone calls telling them not to take Navalny's body anywhere.
Meantime, the European Parliament has passed a nonbinding resolution Thursday, saying that Putin and the Kremlin bear criminal and political responsibility for Navalny's death.
The resolution call for an independent and transparent international probe into his debt. The MP's also urge European countries to actively support the Russian opposition in Russia. The democratic opposition in Russia, I should say.
Still ahead, in Cuba, pain at the gas pump. A price increase is about to be the largest there in decades. We'll tell you why.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VAUSE: Welcome back, everyone. I'm John Vause. You're watching CNN NEWSROOM.
Iran's supreme leader has just voted in Friday's nationwide election for a new legislative assembly. Eighty-four-year-old Ayatollah Ali Khamenei casting his ballot in Tehran.
The incoming assembly could select his successor, should he die during the body's eight-year term.
Fifteen thousand candidates are competing for the 290-seat Parliament, of which 285 seats are up for grabs. Voter turnout expected to be record lows, as the government has disqualified and cracked down on opposition and dissent and a whole lot of other things, as well.
Cubans will wake up in the coming hours to a staggering case of sticker shock in fuel prices. The latest -- it's the largest increase in decades.
[00:30:05]
The country's finance minister admitted Cubans, used to heavy subsidies to gas up their aging cars, are about to get a taste of real fuel costs.
CNN's Patrick Oppmann is our man in Havana.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Even before the sun comes up, people line up for hours in Havana to pump gas. The Cuban government owns every gas station on this island. It says
that starting march, you will raise prices at the pump more than an eye-watering 500 percent.
The increase was supposed to taken place in February, but was delayed after the government here said that their system suffered a cyberattack in late January.
News of the massive hike triggered a run on fuel. A tank of gas will now cost more than what many Cubans earn each month. It is expected to further batter an already fragile economy.
"You don't need to have three neurons. One is enough to know this will be a disaster," he tells me . "To fill up a car with 40 liters will cost 6,000 pesos. Most people don't earn that much in a month."
For decades, Cuba received oil donations from political allies in Venezuela and Russia, which it then sold to its citizens at rock- bottom prices.
But as a communist-run island weathers the worst economic crisis in decades, Cuban officials say subsidies on gas are a luxury the government can no longer afford.
"We're a country without fuel," he says, "and we sell fuel at perhaps the cheapest prices in the region. Some of the cheapest in the world. But when we raise the price of fuel, it's going to increase the cost of some services and the price of things."
Already, as fuel supplies dwindle, people wait for hours to hitchhike, and more and more commuters return to riding bicycles.
Others push to get onto the ever scarcer public transportation.
With out-of-control inflation and the gas price hike, Cubans who only earn the equivalent of a few dollars a day may find themselves unable to afford a ride.
OPPMANN: Some Cubans say, as transportation becomes more and more expensive here, it could actually cost more to get to and from work each day than the salary they bring home.
OPPMANN (voice-over): An increase in fuel prices will also make it more expensive to transport food from the countryside to cities, a potentially precarious situation, says this man who resells fruit and vegetables from his small cart.
"Look how we are right now," he says. "People are being impacted. If it increases 1 percent more, people will go crazy in the streets."
Cuba's socialist government has long said it protects the most vulnerable here. But a stagnant centralized economy, stalled reforms, increased U.S. sanctions are forcing more and more into extreme poverty.
The government has warned additional price hikes and cuts in services are in store. Many hope to be gone by the time that happens.
Lines outside foreign embassies grow longer by the day as more Cubans trying the immigrate before the island's economy hits rock-bottom.
Patrick Oppmann, CNN, Havana.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: Well, still to come here on CNN, a milestone for those pushing for a billionaires' wealth tax, with calls from finance ministers at the G-20 meeting to consider the option globally.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[00:35:39]
VAUSE: Weight Watchers' stock price has seen a dramatic reduction: 25 percent down on Thursday after Oprah Winfrey announced she's leaving the board of directors after nearly a decade.
No official reason was given. Weight Watchers said that Winfrey's decision was, quote, "not the result of any disagreement or company policies."
Oprah has lost weight noticeably recently, crediting an undisclosed weight-loss drug. [COUGHS] Ozempic.
And Weight Watchers stock has slid lately as competition from such drugs as Ozempic and Wegovy has forced the company to offer a plan to help members get prescription medicine.
Brazil and France want the world's ultra wealthy to pay their fair share in taxes. The resolve called on G-20 countries to come up with a shared plan to prevent billionaires from dodging taxes.
France proposed a global minimum tax on the very, very ultra uber- wealthy, like the United States (ph). Countries in the G-20 account for 80 percent of the global economy.
The Brazilian finance minister says it will take international cooperation to crack down on tax evasion and inequality.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FERNANDO HADDAD, BRAZILIAN FINANCE MINISTER: Despite recent progress, it's an undeniable fact that the billionaires of the world are still evading our tax systems through a series of strategies.
I sincerely ask myself how we, as G-20 finance ministers, can allow a situation like this to continue.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Joining us now is business and finance expert Ryan Patel. Ryan's also a senior fellow at Claremont Graduate University's Drucker School of Management. Welcome to Atlanta.
RYAN PATEL, SENIOR FELLOW CLAREMONT GRADUATE UNIVERSITY'S DRUCKER SCHOOL OF MANAGEMENT: Thank you for having me.
VAUSE: OK. Reason No. 1 for taxing billionaires. It's the Willie Sutton rule. He's the guy who said he robbed banks because that's where the money is. Tax billionaires because that's where the money is right now.
Because governments in debt, they're cutting public spending.
So is there any other great big pool of money out there which is untapped, which can be taxed? Or is that basically where it is right now, with the billionaires?
PATEL: Well, that's the easiest one, John. I mean, if you think it, you look in the history, right? You typically don't go there initially, because they're bringing income into the economy, right?
Well, what's the other easiest way, John, that other countries have done? They've taxed other countries on trade goods, on tariffs, on specific goods that they know they can grab that.
But we live in an economy now, it's really interconnected, where there isn't that much delta, meaning that much money that they can make up off the specific countries.
So when you think about the lowest resistance, the easiest pool, when it can be game changing of a number, it is the billionaires in that aspect to be able to come as a global tax.
Reason No. 2, for a special wealth tax on billionaires. As explained by Brazil's finance minister at the G-20. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HADDAD (through translator): The latest E.U. tax observatory report on tax evasion found billionaires are paying effective tax rates of zero to 0.5 percent of their wealth.
(END VIDEO CLIP) . VAUSE: In other words, the special tax on billionaires because right
now that they almost no tax at all. And according to "The Financial Times," it's now easier than ever to tax the rich. Here's that reporting: "Since 2017 an automatic multilateral exchange of bank information now applied by more than 100 countries makes it harder to hide money and taxing so few people is administratively simple." What's the downside?
PATEL: Well, I mean the downside is that when you think about globally, certain countries don't want to do this. They want their business. They want their companies in multinational countries to use them as effectively be in there. And so that's where the -- everyone stayed strong together and then be able to do it, great. The other thing, too, John is you have to identify what -- what money
are you taxing them on? Is it net worth? Is it actual personal income? And what does that look like?
So there's a lot more than just, hey, this is how much money that you make. Everybody has to come to an agreement -- meaning everybody, meaning countries -- of what that looks like, and everybody's got me on the same page.
VAUSE: OK. Reason No. 3 for a special wealth tax on billionaires. Pretty much the same as reason No. 2, but in the United States. Here's the head of the IRS.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANNY WERFEL, U.S. IRS COMMISSIONER: When I look at what we call our tax gap, which is the amount of money owed versus what is paid for millionaires and billionaires that either don't file or under- reporting their income, that's $150 billion of our tax gap. There is plenty --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Per year?
WERFEL: Yes.
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VAUSE: A hundred and fifty billion dollars if billionaires complied with existing tax regulations in the U.S., as they stand right now. And that's before this special billionaire wealth tax, right? So there is a lot of money there to be had. They just got to get it.
PATEL: Yes. I mean, I think you need resources to go get it. I mean, I think this gameshow you're playing with me is like the answer's really clear on each of them.
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But the problem that you keep asking me is, well, why is it not being done? Because there isn't a consistently that someone has to step them to be able put those rules, just like in the past when, you know, Roosevelt in the 1900s put the inheritor -- inheritance tax. It -- it caused a really big outpour, but wasn't really structurally put in, regulation-wise. So it goes back to the point.
Are you going to be consistent to taxes -- you know, the billionaires, and what does it look like? And you've got to get actually, John, buy- in from the billionaires, as well.
VAUSE: Oh, that's an idea.
In the United States, there are concerns that a special tax for billionaires will open the door to higher income taxes. First, they came for Elon, and I did not speak out kind of thing.
The top tax income rate in the U.S. reached above 90 percent from 1944 through 1963, peaking in 1944 when top taxpayers paid an income tax rate of 94 percent on their taxable income.
But the tax being talked about for billionaires isn't a tax on income so much as it is a tax on wealth. So explain how they're different and how they work.
PATEL: Yes, I mean, we think of income as exactly what you think of your income tax. How much money did you actually make? And then writing against your expenses.
When you think of wealth, it's kind of like the net worth, right? You may not -- may show that you're making that much money on income, but you have a whole bunch of properties that has a value at a certain thing, or a stock of a certain wealth. So your wealth, actually, your net worth is a lot larger than your actual income. And that's two different taxes is what they're trying to get to. So that capture everything of that wealth doesn't get passed down.
VAUSE: Just very quickly. What we're looking at here is the need for consensus among all countries for a certain tax rate. What will be taxed and by how much?
PATEL: Exactly. And, again, just in my opinion, this is a great conversation. I think the idea of essentially, you know, I think can be, can reach a consensus.
But we're not close, John. It's going to take years. This is not something that's going to happen overnight. And, you know, it could be five years. It could be ten years. I mean, it's going to take a long time to implement.
At the same time, you can't just go, OK, we're going to do this tomorrow. Like there's got to be notice. There's got to be all these things.
So I just want to throw that out there as this is a concept that its glad it's being talked to, but we're not close to actually doing it. Because there's so many variables to be had.
VAUSE: They are talking about it, which is always a good thing.
Ryan Patel, as always, good to see you. Thanks for being here. Literally. You're here.
PATEL: Appreciate you, John. Love being next to you.
VAUSE: Cheers.
I'm John Vause. Thank you for watching. WORLD SPORT starts after a short break. And then another hour of CNN NEWSROOM is just 18 minutes away with my friend and colleague Michael Holmes. Have a great weekend. Hope to see you right back here next week.
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