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CNN International: Russian Opposition Leader Alexei Navalny's Funeral to be Held Soon in Moscow. Aired 4-4:30a ET

Aired March 01, 2024 - 04:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[04:00:00]

ANNOUNCER: Live from London, this is CNN NEWSROOM with Max Foster and Bianca Nobilo.

BIANCA NOBILO, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from the United States and all around the world. I'm Bianca Nobilo, live in London, and I want to get to our top story this hour.

These are live pictures from outside the Church of the Icon of the Mother of God in Moscow. That is where funeral ceremonies for Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny are set to begin in less than two hours' time. But police are already putting on a show of force not far from there, and Navalny's camp is not sure what will happen as we get closer to the ceremonies. His widow is concerned people who show up could end up behind bars, while his aides say someone has been trying to sabotage some of the farewell events.

CNN has a team of reporters and analysts covering all of the latest details of Alexei Navalny's upcoming funeral for you, and that includes, where we begin, CNN's Sebastian Shukla, who's live in Berlin for us. Sebastian, for an authoritarian regime in Russia, this prospect of what could be a very popular moment for people to show their support for Alexei Navalny at the funeral ceremonies is potentially a problem for them. With that in mind, tell us about the location of where the funeral's being held, and if there's any indication that people are having issues or obstacles trying to get there.

SEBASTIAN SHUKLA, CNN PRODUCER: That's right. Morning, Bianca. We've seen already this morning, as our team on the ground has been able to report to us, that 200-odd people have already started to come to pay their final respects to Alexei Navalny, who will be buried later today in Moscow.

But the journey of Alexei Navalny to come from his penal colony in Yamal-Nenets, a very northern region of Russia, inside the Arctic Circle, to Moscow has been one plagued with difficulty. Alexei Navalny's mother was denied access to the body. There were accusations of blackmail coming from the authorities, Navalny's team say.

And even the debate about and discussions about how the funeral today will take place have been fraught. The authorities have denied Navalny's team the ability to hold a ceremony, you know, not allowing them to book a hall, and have even not allowed the team to use a hearse to transport Alexei Navalny's body from the church down to the Borisov cemetery, which is, you know, two and a half kilometers away, and will take people roughly 30 minutes to walk on foot.

But as you mentioned, the biggest issue and flashpoint that could come today is around the turnout of people who come to pay their final respects to Alexei Navalny.

Navalny's team have been at pains to stress, whether you knew Alexei or not, whether you met him in person or whether you learn about him and his ideas through his investigative videos, come out and pay your final respects as he is finally laid to rest. And that has been a difficulty that the Russian authorities have been trying to grapple with from the moment that he died, Bianca.

We saw people coming out and laying flowers at memorials and makeshift vigils across Russia, and people were starting to be detained even then. So it remains to be seen what could happen today, Bianca.

NOBILO: And so following the news of Navalny's death, there was an outpouring of shock, horror and grief across the West. And I believe eight European countries have stated that they're going to apply sanctions to Russian judges and members of the penitentiary system. What impact is that likely to have? And is there broader support for sanctions in response to Navalny's death from the EU?

SHUKLA: Well, from -- from across the Western world, there has been broad support for sanctions against the Kremlin and President Putin. And that has been the case for many years, even going back to the just before the -- or just after Ukraine was invaded by its neighbor. Huge swathes of sanctions have been targeted against the Russian regime to, you know, essentially try to cripple the economy and to make it known that the actions that the Kremlin are taking will be frowned upon.

But I think it's -- it's -- it's poignant to say that at the moment what we're seeing is the United States leading that drive.

[04:05:05]

There was a there was a 500 odd entities and people who were sanctioned last week. Look, at the moment, what we're seeing is the United States leading that drive. There was a there was a 500 odd entities and people who were sanctioned last week by the Biden administration.

And Yulia Navalnaya herself, who's taken up the mantle of the opposition, has been going around European governments and was in the European Parliament in Strasbourg earlier this week advocating for the EU to continue to support Alexei Navalny. Take a listen to what she had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

YULIA NAVALNAYA, ALEXIE NAVALNY'S WIDOW: My husband will never see what the beautiful Russia of the future will look like, but we must see it. And I will do -- and I will do my best to make his dream come true.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHUKLA: And to make Alexei Navalny's dream come true, Bianca, with the words of Yulia Navalnaya there.

And I think that it remains to be seen how exactly her platform and how she will take up the mantle of taking on Alexei Navalny's message. But for today, the main focus will be on Moscow and finally being 14 days after Alexei Navalny died, finally being able to lay the opposition leader to rest -- Bianca.

NOBILO: Sebastian Shukla in Berlin for us. I know that you've met Navalny yourself, so really appreciate your thoughts and your reporting today.

And Nathan Hodge, former CNN Moscow bureau chief, joins us now in London to discuss this.

Nathan, as Seb was indicating there, we don't yet have a sense of what this turnout will be today and also what the level of repression or police presence will be. What are you expecting from the time that you've spent in Moscow and what you've seen in terms of the shifts since the invasion of Ukraine?

NATHAN HODGE, CNN FORMER MOSCOW BUREAU CHIEF: Well, Bianca, I know -- we know from our experience just for the past two years covering the fallout from the full scale invasion by Russia, that the authorities are willing to crack down absolutely ruthlessly on anything that they see as an unsanctioned political demonstration. But I would even go back sort of nine years ago to the assassination of an opposition leader, also of equal prominence, Boris Nemtsov, who was gunned down on a bridge within plain view of the Kremlin.

And there was a massive show of support for him. And even in the years following his assassination, there continued to be marches and in memorial of him. And people would very often lay flowers on the bridge at the site of his assassination.

But the authorities would very come -- come in very quickly, clean up those memorials, sweep away the flowers. They would be laid again. So the authorities have made it very clear.

And this was at a time, of course, when Nemtsov was investigating Russia's covert involvement in propping up separatists in eastern Ukraine following the annexation of Crimea. That was at the time when he was assassinated. And it was still not officially acknowledged by Russia that they were essentially staging this kind of covert invasion, propping up separatists in eastern Ukraine.

And now the picture has changed ever so dramatically since that point. I was in Moscow both in the run-up to and right after the full-scale invasion. And I was out on the streets, and I saw lots of people being detained, being hauled away for showing up, for instance, outside the embassy of Ukraine in Moscow, being put onto police buses. Any kind of demonstration against the war was very quickly cracked down upon. And since then, Russia has introduced even more draconian laws restricting freedom of speech and essentially outlawing criticism of the military. So anything that would be seen by the authorities as a form of political protest, you know, I think will be dealt with quite harshly. And the Russian state has an apparatus that is, unfortunately, very experienced in dealing with street protests -- Bianca.

NOBILO: Bearing in mind this tightening of draconian laws and crackdown subsequent to the invasion, how risky would it be for any Muscovites or others to attend the ceremonies today?

HODGE: Well, I think most people who would be coming out would be mindful of the fact that the authorities are not going to take a very positive view of any outpouring of support. Just remember the fact that President Putin himself, really, he wouldn't even pronounce Navalny's name.

By contrast --

NOBILO: The gentleman.

HODGE: -- this gentleman, he used various formulae to avoid using his name. But by contrast, at Nemtsov's funeral, there were government representatives who did show up at the time. Not the senior most, but there were people who were in government who did show up.

[04:10:02]

But I think this shows how marginalized the opposition is, how many of them have been hounded out of the country. And it's important to remember the big fact here, Navalny made the quite bold and courageous move to return to Russia after his poisoning, after his treatment in Germany, after being poisoned by a nerve agent, and returning to Russia knowing, you know, full well that he would face arrest, that he would likely face a long prison term, which is exactly what happened.

But I think that he knew that he would, in order to remain relevant in Russian politics and not sort of slide into some sort of emigre or exile obscurity, the only way to remain a player was for him to return -- Bianca.

NOBILO: Would the Kremlin also be concerned that once Navalny is laid to rest at Borisov Cemetery, that that might begin to act as a site of memorial or a kind of centripetal force for supporters, people who are dissenting? Because often that can happen when people are martyred in pursuit of political causes.

HODGE: And this is why this was such an extraordinary sort of tug of war between Navalny's family and the government, when initially the government sort of refused to hand over the body.

And there was talk of having basically a secret burial up in the far north, north of the Arctic Circle in a place that would have been absolutely inaccessible for, you know, people who wanted to pay their respects or, you know, a place that absolutely would have been off limits to becoming sort of a site of pilgrimage there.

So, you know, this is why there was this, you know, intense behind- the-scenes tussle to actually have his body turned over. And even after that, Navalny's supporters have said that they've had obstruction when it comes to doing things like ordering a hearse, finding a suitable place for the memorial, finding a burial ground.

This has been, you know, this has been a constant tussle with the authorities. And clearly, whether it's, you know, acting on orders from above or just a general resistance across the board from officialdom, they've been doing everything that they can to stand in the way of, you know, having a large public turnout, of basically allowing this memorial to go forward. So I think clearly, you know, this is going to be a confrontational moment that we're going to see unfolding in the next few hours.

NOBILO: Since Alexei Navalny -- since the announcement that he died, what have we heard from any Russian officials? Or what is -- how would you characterize the general Russian state media reaction and government reaction overall in these last weeks?

HODGE: Well, I mean, it's generally been sort of the case in the past that Navalny is just not mentioned in state media. I mean, his death was noted by state media. But, you know, we're in the run-up to Russian President Putin being essentially re-elected or re-anointed in two weeks.

There's a presidential election that's happening in two weeks. And for Putin right now, this is a moment to show national unity. You now, so this is a moment when basically, you know, most of the mention of Navalny is going to be swept to the side.

And I think that this is one of these cases where, you know, we had Putin coming out yesterday in his address to the Federal Assembly, essentially his State of the Union address. And the message that he's been trying to send is not only to his domestic audience, but to the rest of the world, is that the Russian people are 100 percent behind him, you know, that he has the full support of the Russian people as a wartime president. And so, anything that would be running contrary to that message, and I mentioned earlier, of course, any kind of public criticism of the war, you know, can potentially land you in jail.

Anything that I think would be seen as an act of political protest, particularly at this time, is going to be seen as something that I think generally, I mean, we have to see what the reaction of the authorities is going to be. But I think that they would generally see it, you know, as something that crosses a line.

NOBILO: Nathan Hodge, do stand by for us. We'll be speaking later in the show.

The funeral service for Russian dissident Alexei Navalny is set to get underway in less than two hours now. We're covering all of the angles for you. Do stay right here with CNN.

[04:15:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NOBILO: We're less than two hours from the funeral of Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny and the crowd of mourners outside the church in Moscow is growing. Many of them are holding flowers. We're also seeing a heavy police presence ahead of the farewell ceremony.

There are major concerns that Russian authorities will crack down on attendees. Hundreds of people were already arrested at makeshift memorials for Navalny in dozens of Russian cities, according to a human rights group.

He was, of course, one of Russia's most high profile opposition leaders and spent years criticizing Vladimir Putin. Navalny's death came just weeks before the presidential elections.

Alexander Baunov is a senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. He joins us now via Skype from Florence, Italy. Great to speak to you again, Aleksandr. I'd like to pick up on that last point about the crackdowns on people who've wanted to pay their respects or memorialize Alexei Navalny in these preceding weeks. What more can you tell us about that?

ALEXANDER BAUNOV, SENIOR FELLOW, CARNEGIE ENDOWMENT FOR INTERNATIONAL PEACE: First, I have many friends who are planning to go, despite the risk of clashes with the police, the provocations, or simply being labeled or added to some list of unreliable citizens, which is an important risk.

Despite this risk, I have people who are going there to pay the last respect to the, as you told it, as you put it, opposition, the main opposition leader of Russia. And it's an important moment for them.

[04:20:00]

NOBILO: And how do you think that the risk that is posed to people who do decide to go today, because of the draconian laws and crackdowns -- we've been speaking about them earlier in the show -- what would you expect turnout to be for the funeral of Alexei Navalny?

BAUNOV: I think that the authorities will try to allow some people to come after they have allowed the funeral at all, but to diminish the number of those present. So they may allow some people, and then will try, will seek to isolate the others who would like to come too.

Because the propaganda seeks to isolate people from each other and convincing them, I mean, those who are opposing the regime. Those who would like to support the opposition to the regime. They are convincing them that they are alone, that they are isolated, their views are marginal, and they are all enemies of the society as a whole. And such moments as a funeral of a main opposition leader is a moment when people can see they are not alone, they are not marginal, they are basically many, to see each other in the eyes.

And that's why in the beginning, the regime was trying not to allow the funeral at all, to conceal the body, not to give out the body to the family, but finally decided to allow this. Now I expect the attempt to restrict the number of those present.

NOBILO: Alexander, how large is this funeral looming for Russians today? Obviously, we on CNN, we're covering it for hours.

The West is paying a lot of attention because of what Alexei Navalny represented and his values, given the tight control of the media in Russia as well. Just give us a sense of what this day will mean for Russians en masse.

BAUNOV: Look, there are two types of state-run media now.

One are old school official media, the TV channels, state-owned radios, and there won't be any mention of this funeral at all.

Another state-run media are the propaganda social media channels, so propaganda channels and telegram owned by pro-regime personalities, pro-regime propagandists. They will blame all those -- and they have hundreds of thousands of subscribers -- they will blame all those who are going to come for the funerals as traitors, as enemies of the motherland, all this usual rhetoric.

And there are, of course, some remnants of opposition media, again in the social media or in immigration, that will cover this as a most important event, a public event related to the opposition activity after the beginning of the war.

And this is true, because after the beginning of the war, the restrictions became so hard that this is going to be, to my opinion, the most numerous and the most visible gathering of the opposition supporters in Russia in two years. It can be small in numbers, but it's important as an event.

NOBILO: Absolutely. How do you think Alexei Navalny will be remembered in Russia, in the different parts of Russian society? What will that legacy be?

BAUNOV: It depends very much on Russia's future. Russia's immediate future is not bright, in my opinion.

But remember, for instance, when you are landing in Lisbon, you are landing in an airport named after General Delgado. He was an opposition leader killed in the early 60s by the dictatorship of Salazar. In the early 60s, since 1962, if I'm not mistaken, he was killed by the Portuguese special authorities on Spanish soil. And at that time, it was like the story is over. Nothing will happen. He was not -- he won't be remembered by the society. But after 12 years, the main airport of the country was named after him.

I may hope that something like this may happen in Russia.

[04:25:00]

Russia is changeable. Russia is not unchangeable. It can change. We have seen 30 years ago how much it changed.

NOBILO: Alexander Baunov, thank you very much for joining us this morning.

And the crowds are growing in Moscow, in front of the church where Alexei Navalny's funeral is due to take place as mourners gather to pay their respects to the man who dared to challenge Vladimir Putin. We'll be live after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NOBILO: Welcome back to CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Bianca Nobilo.

You are looking at live pictures from Moscow where the funeral of Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny is set to get underway about 90 minutes from now. Police are already out in force near the church where the funeral will take place. Services will be held or are due to be held at the Church of the Icon of Mother of God. It's not far from the cemetery where Navalny will be laid to rest later on.

Navalny's aides say that there have been efforts by unknown individuals to sabotage the services and they're worried about what will happen as the day progresses. Navalny's widow is concerned that people who show up to could be arrested.