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Hamas Delegation in Cairo for Talks on Ceasefire Deal; Zelenskyy: 12 People Killed in Russian Attack on Odessa; Palestinian Photographer Motaz Azaiza Speaks to CNN; Underwater Expedition Identifies 100 New Species. Aired 12-12:45a ET
Aired March 04, 2024 - 00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello and welcome, everyone. I'm Michael Holmes. Appreciate your company.
[00:00:33]
Coming up on CNN NEWSROOM, an apparent deadlock in hostage negotiations. Israel skips ceasefire talks in Cairo, even as the death toll mounts.
U.S. Republican presidential candidate Nikki Haley scores her first primary win ahead of Super Tuesday.
And the remarkable finds deep off Chile's coast. More than 100 new species.
ANNOUNCER: Live from Atlanta, this is CNN NEWSROOM with Michael Holmes.
HOLMES: A key member of Israel's war cabinet is now in Washington for high-level talks amid growing calls from the U.S. for a temporary ceasefire in Gaza.
Benny Gantz is set to sit down with U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken on Tuesday, one day after he meets with U.S. Vice President Kamala Harris. But even as these meetings are set to kick off, Israel has decided to skip ceasefire talks in Cairo.
An Israeli official tells CNN that Israel is not sending a delegation to Egypt after Hamas failed to respond to two key demands. And a Hamas source says that the group has its own sticking points. All of this seeming to dash hopes of any imminent deal.
Still, the U.S. ramping up its push to address the dire humanitarian situation in Gaza.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The threat of Hamas poses to the people of Israel must be eliminated, and given the immense scale of suffering in Gaza, there must be an immediate ceasefire.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: CNN's Jeremy Diamond is following all the developments for us from Tel Aviv.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the Hamas delegation arrived in Cairo on Sunday to pursue the next round of negotiations, trying to strike a deal that could potentially result in a six-week temporary ceasefire.
Israel, though, deciding not to send a delegation to this latest round of negotiations, an Israeli official telling us that that's because Hamas has yet to provide a list of the Israeli hostages who would be released under the first phase of this agreement.
Israel is also waiting for confirmation of the number of Palestinian prisoners that Hamas would demand be released in exchange for those Israeli hostages.
But there are differing counts of exactly what the current sticking point is to arrive at an agreement, a senior Hamas source telling us that they see the major sticking points as Israel refusing to agree so far to a path to a permanent ceasefire. Questions over the withdrawal of Israeli troops from Gaza, and also the return of displaced people from Northern Gaza, for them to be able to return to their homes.
Now, as all of this is happening, we are getting an increasingly clearer picture of the dire humanitarian situation in the Gaza Strip, particularly as it relates to hunger and malnutrition.
The Palestinian Ministry of Health now says that 15 children have now died of malnutrition and dehydration in Northern Gaza, several of those over just the last few days.
At Kamal Adwan Hospital in Northern Gaza, they say that there are fears of six more children reaching a similar fate.
The -- UNICEF, in the meantime, is calling for urgent action, saying that there is a need for multiple what they call reliable entry points into Gaza. And that's because we know that there are only two points where aid is getting into Gaza right now: from Egypt into Gaza via that Rafah crossing; and from Israel into Gaza via the Kerem Shalom crossing in the Southern part of the Gaza Strip.
But there are no crossing points that Israel has opened so far, allowing aid to go directly from Israel into Northern Gaza. And that has been one of the major focuses now.
We are seeing multiple countries stepping up their efforts to get more humanitarian aid into the Gaza Strip, including the United States on Saturday airdropping 66 bundles containing 38,000 meals from three different U.S. military aircraft.
But that's just a drop in the bucket compared to the overall need. And those airdrops, while we're seeing more of them and more countries engaging in them, it really speaks to a failure of the overall ability to get humanitarian aid into Northern Gaza.
And that's because getting aid into Gaza via these airdrops, it is costly. It is inefficient. It can also be potentially risky. Humanitarian aid officials say the real need is to allow more entry points and get that aid in via trucks on land directly into Northern Gaza.
[00:05:11]
Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Tel Aviv.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: All right. I want to bring in someone who is witnessing all -- we were going to be bringing in a guest, Dr. Mohammad Subeh in Gaza, who's been treating patients there. I think he's now back, I'm told.
Dr. Mohammad Subeh, your signal dropped out. You are back with us now. The doctor is an emergency room physician who has been in Gaza for the last few weeks on a medical mission. He joins us now.
Doctor, while we've got the signal, I wanted to ask you what sorts of things you've seen, what have your impressions been there. Are there patients or experiences that are going to stick with you?
DR. MOHAMMAD SUBEH, EMERGENCY ROOM PHYSICIAN: Yes. Thanks for having me. I mean, I think there's only so much that pictures and videos that we watch on social media and on TV can relate to us in terms of the gruesome nature of what's happening on the ground here.
I think etched in my mind always will be the images of children with their arms and legs blown out, crying mothers over dead babies, just people unable to live life with dignity. I think that's something you -- we just can't see on video.
Being able to care for a lot of these patients gives me a little bit of just an ounce of ability to feel like I'm -- I'm contributing to their healing, when I know just all around me pain and suffering is happening.
HOLMES: And you live in California with your wife and two children. You've been doing updates on your Instagram. And I do see a lot of children. It obviously matters to you. As you say, amputated limbs.
What -- with -- having your own children, what's it been like seeing and treating wounded kids, in particular? I remember, you -- you spoke of one child having the same name as your own son?
SUBEH: Yes. I mean, as emergency physicians, it's always very difficult to treat ill pediatric patients. It's one of the hardest things for us, because it -- it just hits differently at the heart.
To see it day in and day out, to see the pain and suffering that these children are going through, and having my own children, I think just makes it so much more real. I try to treat every child here like my own. And, you know, it's not
uncommon for me to just hold a baby to try to console them as we wait to locate a mother or a father to come take them here.
Just yesterday. I mean, my my first several patients who are pediatric patients, one shot in the arm while he was sleeping in the tent, another two kids pulled out of the rubble. We're still waiting to locate their family. Gunshot wound to the thigh in a three-month-old. Crushed extremities.
I try not to let that image of kind of transposing that onto my own children paralyze me from being able to do what I need to do here on the ground. But it definitely, without that element of humanity and compassion in the heart, I don't think I'd be able to do what I -- what I have been on the past -- this month.
HOLMES: I can't imagine. When you think about the medical resources you have when you're working in California as an emergency room doctor, what is the comparison with what you have to work with there in Gaza? Have you lost patients you could have saved in California?
SUBEH: Oh, it's -- it's a night-and-day difference. First off, in terms of our facilities in California, we have ability - the ability to divert patients away from hospitals when we're at capacity or overcapacity, where it becomes dangerous to take care of patients.
Here, the healthcare infrastructure has been completely destroyed. We're essentially the only trauma facility, and we're operating out of tents to take care of any traumatic injuries, as well as medical emergencies.
People are decompensating from diabetes, from heart failure, from hypertension, dying from pneumonia, dying from malnutrition.
And so it's a night-and-day difference in terms of supplies. We don't even have alcohol swabs. If I need to put in an IV, I need to cleanse your skin very well to ensure that I don't introduce any infections.
[00:10:06]
And so everything is being stopped at the borders, and one thing you witness by being here is the deliberate systematic destruction of every element of the infrastructure here.
Whether it be people's homes and sheltering, people's ability to freely move in so-called safe zones.
The healthcare infrastructure, hospitals under siege. I don't know if you remember a few months ago, there was this whole big question of who bombed the hospital, the Baptist hospital.
And yet, now we're seeing the complete destruction of all the hospitals --
HOLMES: Yes.
SUBEH: -- from the North, all the way down to Rafah now.
So it's this systematic way of hurting (ph) the population, whether it be (AUDIO GAP) and other modes of pain and suffer.
HOLMES: OK.
SUBEH: So you do what you can with the limited resources that you have. And, as an emergency physician trying to work creatively to find solutions quickly to stabilize folks and try to save lives.
HOLMES: Right.
SUBEH: And so --
HOLMES: Your shot is a little --
SUBEH: -- I think -- it's hard to find any facility similar to one you'd find in California.
HOLMES: Yes. Yes. Our signal is a little dodgy, but I'm going to persevere with one more question, because you're a Palestinian American. How personal is your mission, the work you're doing? I know you have family in Gaza.
(AUDIO GAP)
HOLMES: I think we've lost the Dr.
SUBEH: Yes, so I can't hear the question. I'm sorry, Michael.
Yes. Sorry. My connection is extremely poor here, but I heard half your question.
I am Palestinian American, like many Palestinians in the diaspora in the world here. My story is one of generations of displacement and dispossession. One of trying to maintain your identity, maintain your heritage.
I, myself, my grandparents were displaced in 1948 from the village of Alit (ph) in Palestine and settled in Kuwait, where they took refuge. I was born in Kuwait. And -- Do I have you still?
HOLMES: Yes. The signal is dropping in and out. I don't know that we can count on it.
SUBEH: I apologize. Do I have you?
HOLMES: Yes. We're still here. Just -- just quickly finish your thought.
SUBEH: So, you know, I came to the United States. I came -- I came to the United States as a refugee during the Persian Gulf War in 1990. And my life has been full of -- you know, I see them as blessings in disguise, trials and tribulations, that have really allowed me to develop a sense of purpose. And this is something my parents always instilled in us and myself and my siblings, is you have to find your sense of purpose, because we all have, as humans, a sense of purpose. We're all endowed with gifts.
And really the best way to traverse through this life is to find those gifts and use them to the max to benefit the world around you. And me being here in Gaza is one of those small ways I can -- I can share those gifts and help people here on the ground in -- in dire need.
HOLMES: Well, you're doing incredible, important work. We'll leave it there for now. And thankfully, the signal held up enough for us to hear your testimony on what is happening there in the realities on the ground.
Dr. Mohammad Subeh, thank you so much. Appreciate it.
SUBEH: Thank you for having me.
HOLMES: All right. Still to come on the program, it is crunch time in the race for the Republican nomination for U.S. president. We'll have the latest in the build-up to Super Tuesday when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[00:16:26]
HOLMES: The U.S. presidential race is heating up into Super Tuesday, now, just a day away. And there is some good news for the Republican candidate, Nikki Haley. CNN projects she will win Sunday's GOP primary in Washington, D.C., marking her first win so far.
But Donald Trump gained more than double the D.C. delegates with wins in Idaho, Missouri, and Michigan. Haley has promised to stay in through Super Tuesday, saying she wants to help future generations.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NIKKI HALEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think I've thrown out the idea that they think I'm running for vice president. That's not happening. If this was about my political career, I would have been out a long time ago.
The reason I'm doing this is for my kids and your kids and grandkids.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Republican voters in 15 states and one territory will hold nominating contests on Tuesday. More than a third of the delegates necessary to clinch the GOP presidential nomination are at stake on that one day.
Democrats in 16 states will hold contests, as well.
Ukraine's president says defense forces have shot down seven Russian military aircraft in the past week alone and 15 over the month of February.
Volodymyr Zelenskyy says Ukrainian troops are holding the front lines but are struggling with a significant shortage, as he put it, or artillery. He's urging the United States once again to provide military aid that will make the war, quote, "hopeless for Moscow" and save Ukrainian lives.
Now on Sunday, six people were injured by Russian missile attacks in Eastern Ukraine. This police video showing a heavily damaged school in one of the towns hit.
And President Zelenskyy says that the death toll from a Russian drone attack on Odessa on Friday night has now risen to 12, including five children. He says rescuers spent all day Sunday digging through the rubble, recovering bodies and searching for survivors.
CNN's Nick Paton Walsh shows us the aftermath.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: The death toll in Odessa continues to rise, and it's worth just pausing a moment --
WALSH (voice-over): and naming the children killed by what some officials suggest may be the debris from drones being taken out of the sky, but it's still the consequence of the relentless drone and aerial strikes against civilian targets in Ukraine that seem to happen almost every single night.
Tymofiy (ph) was four months old. Mark (ph) would have been three Sunday, today, had he lived to see that moment. And we're now hearing of a ten-year-old also killed during these attacks.
Now, all of this, the backdrop to an urgent situation here on the Eastern front lines. We've been seeing ourselves, the intensity of the fighting around some of these frontline towns.
Remember, this all started with a Ukrainian decision to pull out of Avdiivka two weekends ago. That said, it was planned, but it appears that their departure and the defensive lines were less well-planned from what we're hearing.
Now, certainly that was evident in the three villages to the West of Avdiivka, which Ukraine initially said were never part of their defensive plan. They were given up quite fast.
But now the areas that they said they would hold as part of those new defensive lines are severely under threat.
WALSH: And there are some Russian bloggers suggesting that Russian forces are quite deep into some of these villages, that there not that particularly consequential themselves.
But what is consequential is the idea that Ukraine says it would hold the line of certain place and has not been able to do that. And we've heard internal criticism here from soldiers on the front line. There's been a lot of it in social media, too, that essentially, Ukraine didn't prepare for the possibility of having to fall back in the way that it should have. [00:20:11]
Some of that might've been reflected in some, I think, strange, different comments we've heard --
WALSH (voice-over): -- from Olexsandr Syrskyi, the new military commander in Ukraine, in the job three weeks.
He's now, since Thursday, berated his staff for essentially not being up to the job of commanding some of these forces in the Avdiivka area. He says even made some personnel replacements.
He's praised some staff and some personnel on the ground, as well, but it is odd to hear a commander point the finger quite like that in a moment as desperate as this.
WALSH: It is desperate, because a lot of the forces we talked to say they're running out of ammunition. We were with a tank unit who, yesterday and this day, simply did not have enough enough rounds to fire as much as they would normally have expected to.
That is extraordinary, because in the area they were with, there was a battle raging. And so these villages, under increased pressure, are leaving many worried that we might be seeing Russia moving forward past Ukraine's expectations in what it could do to defend its territory. And then possibly a change in the dynamic on the battlefield.
Too early to tell right now. But things are absolutely not what Ukraine hoped they would be on the battlefield. They're certainly not what they hoped there would be in terms of supply and assistance from the West.
And it begins to feel --
WALSH (voice-over): -- as though Russia has the capacity to move forwards. Videos of their assaults show them exceptionally callous about the use of their troops, very blunt and clumsy in their tactics, but still relentless and apparently moving forwards, even if it's meter by meter.
So a troubling time we're seeing here, certainly.
WALSH: And I think the feeling amongst the Ukrainian front lines that things are really not good. And it's not quite clear how long they can keep the status quo as it is.
Nick Paton Walsh, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: Germany's defense minister suggested Sunday that Russia is behind a leaked conversation between top-ranking air force officers. They were discussing a possible transfer of long-range Taurus missiles to Ukraine.
The conversation posted online last week by the head of Russia's state broadcaster.
German Defense Minister Boris Pistorius said the timing of the leak and the quick reaction suggested a certain, quote, "choreography" that he suspects is part of a Russian campaign.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BORIS PISTORIUS, GERMAN DEFENSE MINISTER (through translator): The incident is clearly more than just the interception and publication of the conversation within the air force. It is part of an information war that Putin is waging. There is no doubt about that.
It is a hybrid attack aimed at disinformation. It's about division. It's about undermining our unity. And accordingly, we should react to it with particular prudence, but no less determinedly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Officials say the leak will be investigated intensively and quickly.
Now, tributes still pouring in for Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny two days after he was laid to rest. Hundreds of mourners flocking to his grave in Moscow on Sunday and the pile of flowers reportedly stretching more than 500 meters outside the cemetery gate.
Navalny died last month in a Siberian prison, sparking accusations he had been murdered. The Kremlin denying any involvement in his death.
The outpouring of support comes as President Vladimir Putin is set to secure another six-year term in an election with no real competition.
Still to come on the program, as the war began raging in Gaza, a Palestinian photographer turned to his camera to capture the pain and suffering around him. His story, up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[00:26:04]
HOLMES: As Israel's war in Gaza is about to enter its fifth month, the images emerging from the strip, of course, get more horrific by the day.
But it wasn't always like that. Have a look at these photos taken in the days leading up to September -- October 7, by a Palestinian photographer who wanted to capture the beauty of Gaza.
But, of course, he soon found himself documenting carnage and destruction instead.
Twenty-five-year-old Motaz Azaiza risked his life to give millions of people a raw and unfiltered look at the horrors of the war. After more than 100 days of tireless and distressing work, Azaiza and his family evacuated to Qatar. He spoke to CNN's Becky Anderson about the toll the war has taken on him. A warning: some of the images you'll see are graphic and disturbing.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MOTAZ AZAIZA, PHOTOGRAPHER: On the first day, from the early morning, I woke up, like, with a shock: what is happening? A lot of rockets, like, in the sky, a lot of explosions. And so I took my camera.
Since that day, everything has changed for my (UNINTELLIGIBLE), and everything changed for Gaza.
We're used to this -- conditions, but it's not like this. What I experienced in this war, I never expected for me to experience it.
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Early on in the war, you posted a video of what looked like Gaza in the early morning. You hear the sound of airstrikes in the background and then your voice.
Your caption wrote, "God help us."
Has the world completely let you and Gaza down?
AZAIZA: We're just like getting words from people. We lost a lot. Israel lost; Palestinians lost. So I don't know when this is going to end, when they will think about accepting that we are humans. We want to live in our homeland they are occupying.
ANDERSON: Which images and which stories stick with you most?
AZAIZA: The image of a young girl, she's stuck under tons of rubble. A building that contains more than 250 person, 180 of them passed.
It's difficult for the civil defense to extract -- extract her, because there is no machines. There is no diesel for the machines. It was so dark there.
ANDERSON: Nearly half of Gaza's population are kids under the age of 18. You posted this video of little kids fooling around. You said you were trying to alleviate their trauma after they had to flee their homes.
When you think about them, what they have lost, what they've gone through and watched so many kids are still going through, what's the future for the young generation of Gazans?
AZAIZA: There's a floor (ph). They're not seeing any -- any future.
Some kids, they don't tell now that they lost their parents. Some kids, they don't know because there are kids, babies. So how you will tell them that when they grow up, that they lost their parents in Gaza because an Israeli airplane through a bomb into their house and their flesh shattered around them and you survived from under, like, twenty ton of rubble?
So how you tell him this? Do you expect him to be like a normal human, a normal person after what all we went through?
[00:30:14]
ANDERSON: Have you had a chance to process, do you think and comprehend, what sort of toll this has taken on you?
AZAIZA: Till now, it's better for me to not the process, because if I process what I'm -- what I experienced and what I've been through, believe me, I will -- I will not feel OK.
So -- so this is a famous word. I keep saying it during the 107 days, this is the last time you'll see me with this heavy, stinky vest.
AZAIZA: What made you say, alas, it's time to take off this press jacket? It's time to leave?
AZAIZA: I evacuate today. So --
You got all the attention of the war to what is happening here. But nothing changed. You didn't change anything.
I -- I'm a man who's looking for a solution right now. I need to go to give speeches, talk to the world, to protest with the people who are protesting for us, to be with them there to share my stories.
I'm now in Doha, trying to make more noise from outside.
I'm a photographer. I wanted to capture the beauty of Gaza, not the war on Gaza.
ANDERSON: When you consider the sort of images that you have shot and the stories that you have told through both still and moving imagery, how do you feel about the profession of journalism.
AZAIZA: Sometimes for like a kind of victory for journalism that, even if they have the power for everything, as a young man, a photojournalist, I showed the world like the Western media couldn't show. And you got the people hearts (ph) from outside.
ANDERSON: What do you want the world to know about Motaz?
AZAIZA: Motaz is just like a symbol to remind you that there's more to see. Motaz is a human, just like any -- any young guy from any -- any part in the war.
I'm a Gazan. I don't want -- wish to anyone to live the conditions that I've been through.
We have the right to decide our life. Palestinian life is not less than the Israeli life. Just have the same -- to live in peace.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: Powerful and a very brave man.
Now, Haiti has imposed a state of emergency amid a wave of gang violence that has included kidnappings, killings, and looting.
A curfew has been imposed after two prison breaks over the weekend. The U.N. estimates some 3,500 prisoners escaped from the national penitentiary in Port-au-Prince.
Officials say police confronted heavily armed individuals but were unable to stop them from freeing the prisoners. The violence left several inmates and prison staff injured.
South Korea's government says it will crack down on thousands of doctors who were ignoring orders to return to work. For nearly two weeks, tens of thousands of doctors have been striking for better working conditions and better pay.
They're also protesting the government's plan to increase medical school admissions, saying that won't solve their most critical problems.
The strike has left hospitals and healthcare centers in alert. Officials say they'll be beginning inspecting hospitals and suspending licenses for junior doctors who continue to strike.
When we come back, more than 100 new species have been discovered in underwater mountains, and the pictures are amazing. I speak with one of the scientists when we come back.
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[00:36:04]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two, one, ignition. Engines full power, and lift- off of NASA Crew 8 (ph).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: What you're saying there is NASA's latest mission to the International Space Station. The SpaceX Falcon rocket lifted off a little more than an hour ago from the Kennedy Space Center. On board, three astronauts from NASA and a Russian cosmonaut.
If all goes well, they'll reach the space station Tuesday and stay there until the end of August.
Two earlier launch attempts were scrubbed due to weather conditions.
An incredible story now. An underwater exploration off the coast of Chile has led to the discovery of more than 100 new sea creatures. Have a look at some of the incredible video from the Schmidt Ocean Institute expedition.
Scientists identified deep-sea corals, glass sponges, sea urchins, and squat lobsters.
Dr. Erin Easton is a chief scientist with the Schmidt Ocean Institute. She's also a science professor at University of Texas, Rio Grande Valley. She joins me now. And unusually for us -- and it's very cool -- she's on the boat off the coast of Chile.
And it's great to see you. Let's talk about this. More than 100 species completely new to science. I mean, that must have been mind- blowing to see.
Describe your feelings as the -- the breadth of these discoveries became apparent.
DR. ERIN EASTON, CHIEF SCIENTIST, SCHMIDT OCEAN INSTITUTE: Astonished, really. Just baffled our minds, how many new species we're seeing. And as we were conducting the dives. If you listen to the live streams, you can hear the scientists in the background just going, "Oh, oh, look! Erin, there's another one. Oh, look! Click that species."
Yes. Beyond what we ever imagined.
HOLMES: I can only imagine that -- it's very cool for me to watch. I can imagine as a scientist, it would be mind-blowing.
I think -- I think a lot of us tend to think we're pretty advanced these days and know our world pretty well. But these discoveries just show how much we don't know, don't they, especially in our oceans? I mean, what else could be out there?
EASTON: Yes, it really highlights how much more we have yet to learn about our oceans and how much more work we need to do to understand the biodiversity that our oceans harbor, as well as -- the next step is really looking at how they're all interconnected and how one species and the potential of the damages that we do to that species might affect tens or hundreds or thousands of other species.
HOLMES: Yes, they're all links in a chain, aren't they?
I mean, so we're talking about sponges to lobsters, to corals, to you know, sea urchins. What are some of the most remarkable or perhaps even weirdest ones that you've seen?
EASTON: Yes, for me, it's not so much about any one species that's remarkable. What's really remarkable to me is the overall ecosystems that we are seeing and how every time we went around a rock to the other side of a cliff or turned a bend or went over a ridge, we just saw a different community.
And the way that the cactus urchins we were observing were kind of all nestled up against these enormous corals that were probably hundreds or thousands of years old. And just all the different colors. And you'd have all these brittle stars, like dozens of them on an individual coral.
Or seeing fish eggs on dozens of different species of corals as we are surveying. It -- just all amazing how it's all interconnected and how it's not just one species, but these communities, and all the species thriving on them together. HOLMES: Yes, there's one -- I think it was called -- they're calling
it the walking fish, where it sort of walks along on its fins because it saves energy. That's popped up in the video that we're looking at.
Now I was reading -- and I've said, you're off the coast of Chile. And I was reading that for researchers like you, it shows how ocean protections put in place by the Chilean government are working in order to bolster the biodiversity you're talking about. How those protections worked and what broader protections are needed.
[00:40:21]
EASTON: Yes. It's -- it's really amazing that Chile has really stepped forward and done as much as they have to protect only their own waters. But working towards protecting waters outside their national jurisdiction.
And to see what we saw is really representative of what they have done in terms of protection, because if they hadn't set protection guidelines in place really going on two decades ago to prevent some trawling in some fisheries, maybe locations we had gone would not have these ancient coral reefs there and would not be as diverse and abundant in terms of the life that they are harboring.
HOLMES: Yes, because some dreadful things happen with the trawling and -- and dragnets. And now there's all the talk of, you know, undersea mining and things. It's remarkable what damage we can do.
I want to ask you this, too, because these discoveries clearly remarkable, because we didn't know about them. But how do they help us? You touched on this and how everything's a link in a chain. What do we learn from all of this?
EASTON: Yes, well again, seeing these corals that have been there for potentially thousands of years. And one thing we noted was, in many cases, we did not see a lot of young coral colonies where these ancient coral colonies were.
So the events that lead to their establishment could be rare. And so the likelihood of them being re-established and then taking the time to grow to serve the purpose that they serve in the grander scheme of things could take millennia to recover.
And just seeing again, all these fish eggs settled on the corals, for example, if that's a fish species that is sufficiently mobile, it migrates. And maybe it's only around that sea mount (ph) at the time it's ready to lay its eggs.
But if those corals aren't there, they wouldn't have had the opportunity to lay their eggs.
HOLMES: Yes.
EASTON: And by the time they get to the next out, it might be too late. And so that could have an effect on that fish species. And I don't know what fish species it is, but that's just one potential possibility.
HOLMES: Well, yes, I mean, it's remarkable work that you as a team are doing very exciting discoveries. And I think it's really cool. We're talking to you while you're on the research ship off the coast of Chile. I really appreciate you making the time. Thanks so much.
EASTON: Yes, thanks for having me.
HOLMES: Thanks for spending part of your day with me. I'm Michael Holmes. More news in 15 minutes. WORLD SPORT for now.
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