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CNN International: Judge Dismisses Some Counts Against Trump In Georgia Case; House Passes Bill That Could Ban TikTok In U.S.; Putin: Russia's Nuclear Weapons More Modern Than Any Other. Aired 11a-12p ET
Aired March 13, 2024 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.
ERICA HILL, HOST, "CNN NEWSROOM": Hello. I'm Erica Hill in New York.
We begin this hour with two breaking news stories. The CAO (ph) of the House has just approved a bill that could ban TikTok in the United States. And also, just a short time ago, the judge in the Georgia election subversion case dismissed some of the charges against former President Donald Trump and his co-defendants. Now, to be clear, as the judge stated here, this case will continue.
Judge Scott McAfee, though, did throw out some of the charges. The rest will remain intact. And if you're wondering how this comes into play with that other ruling that we're waiting for from this judge, well, the ruling on those ethics allegations brought against Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis, those have not come in yet. So, we're still waiting for those.
Let's go straight to CNN's Nick Valencia in Atlanta. So, Nick, bring us up to speed here on the charges that were thrown out and why.
NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This indictment had 41 counts in total. Now, six of those charges have been thrown out, all of them having to do with this alleged solicitation of these defendants to get these public officials to violate their oath. But, the judge here in this case, Scott McAfee, ruling that the District Attorney's Office did not provide enough detail about what those alleged crimes these defendants were soliciting from the public officials. So, he has decided to throw these counts out. Some of them have to do with the former President, including this fake elector scheme, the scheme by Trump and his allies to subvert the Electoral College and try to say that he won 2020 here, the election in 2020 in Georgia, when he did not.
The other charges have to do with Trump and that phone call to the Secretary of State, trying to get him to decertify the election results and overturn the election results. We should be clear, though, the most significant count in this indictment still stands, and that's the racketeering count, count one in this indictment. And we should also be clear not to confuse our viewers, we are still waiting on whether or not Scott McAfee, the judge here, is going to rule to dismiss Fani Willis. He did say in a recent interview that he is on track to make that decision by the end of the week. But, he went out of his way in this ruling to say that this does not mean the indictment is dismissed. We are still waiting really on pins and needles to see what his decision is on Fani Willis, though. Erica.
HILL: Yeah. We absolutely are. Have we heard anything yet? I know the calls are out because I know you work, my friend. Have we heard anything yet from Team Trump or anybody else involved here in these charges?
VALENCIA: Well, some of the defense attorneys are celebrating this. In fact, I got an enthusiastic "yes" from one of the defense attorneys when they heard about this order. We did also reach out to the District Attorney's Office, Erica. We have not heard back from them, nor have we heard yet from the defense attorney, Steve Sadow, for the former President here in this case. Erica.
HILL: All right. Nick Valencia, I know you'll keep us posted, as you do here more. Appreciate it. Thank you.
I also want to bring in now CNN Legal Analyst Joey Jackson. So, Joey, as we look at these charges, as Nick laid out for us, six of the 41 are gone because there just wasn't enough information for the defense to put together their case. Does that surprise you?
JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: So, it doesn't, Erica. Good morning. Good to be with you. Right. Remember this. The broad view of this is as follows. You have an indictment. What does an indictment mean? It means that citizens of Georgia have convened. They all determine whether there is proof of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, and an indictment and a grand jury determine whether, a, there is probable cause to believe that a crime was committed, and b, that the defendants committed those crimes. That's the essence and then they vote by a majority vote to indict you.
The issue, though, is that when you, as an actual prosecutor, go before a grand jury, remember, there is no defense in there. There is no cross-examination by the defense. It's totally the grand jury process relying upon prosecutors. That presents prosecutors with the duty to present facts, present evidence, and present information that would be violative of the laws. Defense attorneys then challenge, right, those indictments to determine, as they did here, whether there was specific facts which underlie that which is being charged.
So, the essence of this, in doing that, they said to the judge, you have accused our clients of soliciting, right, other public officers to violate their oaths. What does that mean, and how specifically did they do it? The judge essentially said, Erica, that, yes, there is a lot of conduct surrounding the defendants and what they attempted to do in having that violation. But, what specific oath was deemed to have been violated? Yes, officers, right, in this case, the legislature of Georgia, takes specific oaths of the Constitution, what constitutionally both in the United States and as it relates to Georgia was violated to the extent that that's not explicitly defined.
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The judge said that this has to be thrown out, these charges. That will do little with regard to the indictment itself, right, because the core of the indictment stands. But, I'm not surprised. And it is a judicial duty for a judge to ensure that the indictment is legally sufficient, in this instance, the judge said, as to these counts, it is not, and it will be up to the prosecutors to either go back into the grand jury and get an indictment after giving the grand jury specific information, or just proceeding on this case without those counts now being included within the indictment.
HILL: So, as Nick pointed out, right, that racketeering, that first count, that is still in there. I'm curious, there have been a number of plea deals, as we know, that have come out of this. Could they be impacted at all with some of these charges that were thrown out, especially if some of those guilty pleas did involve some of these six charges?
JACKSON: So, the short answer, Erica, is absolutely. Right? If somebody pleads, you have to plead to a legally sufficient charge. And to the extent that that would not have been the case, then, yes, you can revisit those pleas. Remember, though, that when someone takes a plea, right, a defendant decides to plead guilty, there is a negotiation with prosecutors as to what specific counts the prosecutors would like the defendant to plead to. And so, it could very well be the case, right, that if any of these indictment charges that have been dismissed or implicated that the prosecutor simply inputs or interposes other charges that would be appropriate, and the defendant can plead guilty to them. The defendant also may have the option in those circumstances to withdraw the plea completely and proceed to move forward.
But, apparently, I think the lawyers looked at the indictment in its entirety and determined that a plea was appropriate. So, the short answer is, yes, it could affect them. But, the longer answer is that in a generalized sense, they may just substitute a different type of indictment charge and still enter a plea of guilty anyway.
HILL: CNN Legal Analyst Joey Jackson rolling with us on the breaking news, as always. Appreciate it, my friend. Thank you.
I want to bring in now today's panel. Matt Mowers is the President of Valcour Global Public Strategy and was of course a Senior Advisor at the State Department under the Trump administration. Mo Elleithee is a former Communications Director for the Democratic National Committee, and is the Executive Director of Georgetown University's Institute of Politics and Public Service. Good to see both of you today. Boy, we've got a lot to talk about on this Wednesday.
Matt, I'll start with you. Just your reaction here to some of these charges being thrown out. The judge being very clear, though. This is in no way the end of this case.
MATT MOWERS, FORMER TRUMP ADMINISTRATION ADVISOR, & PRESIDENT, VALCOUR GLOBAL PUBLIC STRATEGY: Right. But, what you're seeing a lot of President Trump and a lot of his allies are doing right now are almost acting as the defense lawyers in a court of public opinion. What they're trying to do is essentially just poke holes in every argument they can against this case. And you see a lot of his allies, Congressman Mike Collins from Georgia, for example, tweeting out some of the decision from the judge that says that the lack of the ability to bring some of the charges was "fatal". And he is using language like that from the actual judge's opinion. And doing so, what they're trying to do is discredit this entire set of charges against President Trump in the court of public opinion.
And look, Mo and I, both been around politics. We've been on campaigns. You would never advise anyone to be criminally indicted when they're running for office. But, if you are, you kind of want it to go the path that's been going for former President Trump right now, just given the number of headaches and hurdles that prosecutors in different jurisdictions have been having going forward with this case as well as the others.
HILL: Mo, what do you make of this? Because it's important to point out, yes, six were thrown out, as we just talked about with Joey and as Nick laid out, but that racketeering count, that's still in there. There is --
MOWERS: Yep.
HILL: -- still a lot in here. This is by no means done.
MOWERS: No. Far from it. But, what this like -- I'm sorry. I was just going to say --
HILL: Well, go ahead.
MOWERS: -- what this likely does is delays, delays of the trial, though, and delays the case till after November.
HILL: Well, it likely does, which is clearly the playbook that we have seen from Donald Trump for years at this point is do your best to delay. Mo, but I'd love to get you to weigh in.
MO ELLEITHEE, EXEC. DIR., GEORGETOWN INSTITUTE OF POLITICS & PUBLIC SERVICE, & FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, DNC: Yeah. Look, I'm not a lawyer. But, I will say, this doesn't seem to be all that impactful legally. Right? I mean, as you mentioned, Erica, the racketeering which is the central count is still intact. The judge said this was done in a messy way. If you want to try it again, clean it up and bring it back to me. So, I'm not sure it's going to have a whole heck of a lot of legal impact.
But, I couldn't agree more with Matt. Donald Trump's political strategy relies on this being as messy as possible. It's going to create more delay, and it is sort of raising questions amongst the people that are already with him about the whole process.
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That's what he wants. That's all he cares about. And so --
HILL: Mo --
ELLEITHEE: -- I don't know it's going to have a huge impact. But, it's just going to reinforce where people seem to already be.
HILL: To that point, Mo, I'll just stick with you on this one for a minute. There have been a lot of questions. Right? We're still waiting from -- to hear from this judge when it comes to the potential conflict of interest involving Fani Willis. But, given that this is such a high-profile case, is it surprising at all to you that we're seeing this moment now where there was not specific enough information given here about how exactly this was violated?
ELLEITHEE: I mean, when it comes to Donald Trump and the legal system, nothing surprises me anymore. But, yeah. I mean, it is unfortunate -- if you're with the prosecution or support the prosecution's case, it's unfortunate. This isn't where we ought to be at this point in the process. I think a lot of people were hoping that there could be a trial, a speedy trial, and some sort of resolution in time for voters to make a decision that clearly was not the President's agenda. And he has done everything he possibly could to avoid that and to make this look as messy as possible. And unfortunately, for the prosecution, particularly in Georgia, they have been a bit messy. That's not to detract from the underlying facts of the case and the overall case that can be made. But, it certainly hasn't helped to try to move things along.
HILL: All right. I'm going to have to leave it there for now. But, the good news is, neither one of you are actually allowed to go anywhere. You're going to go back and be back with us in just a moment, because as I mentioned, it is a rather busy Wednesday, and we're looking forward to your expertise just ahead. So, Matt, Mo, stay with us.
Also ahead here, we are following this other breaking news story out of Washington, House lawmakers passing overwhelmingly that bill that could actually ban TikTok in the U.S. Up next, it will have to go to the Senate where the path is not quite as clear. It's also important to point out the kind of support and usage that TikTok has, nearly half of all Americans and 170 million Americans. The bill would block that social media site from U.S. app stores if it is not spun off from its China-linked parent company ByteDance. China lashed out at a potential TikTok ban just a short time ago, saying that it believes it will backfire on the United States.
CNN's Marc Stewart has more on that for us. He joins us now live from Beijing. Not surprisingly, Marc, this is not something that China would be in favor of.
MARC STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No question, Erica. Good to see you. Look, this is all happening at a time when the United States and China are trying to forge economic and business ties for the future. But, obviously, there is this feeling of distrust among many American lawmakers. It's a point I brought up earlier today when I was able to ask a question to a spokesperson from China's Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Let's take a listen to that exchange.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) STEWART: As you will know, lawmakers in the United States are voting to possibly ban TikTok regardless of what they may decide. What is your response to feelings of distrust from American lawmakers and the American public toward Chinese companies?
WANG WENBIN, CHINESE FOREIGN MINISTRY SPOKESMAN (Interpreted): Even though the U.S. has not found evidence on how TikTok endangers its national security, it has never stopped going after TikTok. Such practice of resorting to acts of bullying, when one could not succeed in fair competition, disrupts the normal operation of the market. It undermines the confidence of international investors and sabotages the global economic and trade order. This will eventually backfire.
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STEWART: The ministry has these question and answer availabilities every day. So, it will be interesting to see if the response today is going to be the same message tomorrow, as it's already close to midnight here in China. Beyond, though, the government, how has this been perceived in China? What is the response on the ground? A lot of this is coming through newspaper editorials. And we should point out, we -- China has state-sponsored media. So, essentially, the newspapers, the news organizations are the mouthpiece for the government. And we're seeing a lot of the same themes there. This is a way for U.S. lawmakers to kind of promote themselves and to show that the United States is a superpower.
So, as far as where this goes next, from China's view, it will be interesting to see what the response is tomorrow when we have this question and answer session, and over the weekend, especially in newspaper editorials, Erica.
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HILL: We will be watching for all of that. Marc, I know you'll keep us updated. Good to see you. Thank you.
Joining me now is Mike Isaac. He is a Technology Correspondent for The New York Times, and joining from San Francisco today. Mike, good to see you. Let's talk about the practical measures of this passing. We know there is still a couple more hurdles, one little hurdle called the Senate, and then we'll see what happens. But, for users, as folks are looking at this right now, what would happen next? I mean, how difficult actually would it be for this app and its 170 million users in the U.S. to actually find a buyer?
MIKE ISAAC, TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES: No. I think it's a great point. It's really interesting sort of back and forth right now publicly. Politicians are kind of saying in the U.S. it's not a ban. It's a forced sale, frankly, in my opinion, because they don't want to take the political heat for banning a very popular app, and TikTok is obviously sort of pushing, they're trying to ban this app. I do think trying to sell it, though, is going to be not that easy, in some ways, because the past four -- three or four years at least, there has been a very different antitrust environment compared to the earlier days of tech where Facebook could buy up Instagram, could buy WhatsApp. Google could make tons of ad acquisitions. And now, you're seeing things being challenged in court and actually lost.
So, some of the natural acquires of TikTok, not necessarily obvious right now.
HILL: It's also -- as we look at this too, there has been this question of right. So, we have heard for a number of years now that there are significant national security concerns. I was struck by some of the lawmakers coming out of the briefing that they had, the classified briefing that they had yesterday, saying it feels a little -- that it's sort of pie in the sky, right, that there hasn't been enough evidence for some lawmakers that has been shown to them to really point to exact national security concerns as opposed to all this speculation.
ISAAC: I think that's fair. It's funny. I've been sort of looking at this really hard. And to your point, a lot of lawmakers are concerned about what if the Chinese government leans on ByteDance, which is TikTok's parent company based in China, to give information on Americans to the Chinese government, location data, habits, interests, preferences. But, it does feel, unless there is things that we don't know already that are classified, it does feel theoretical right now. And for a lot of lawmakers, I think even for the President, theoretical is still enough. But, I -- but, TikTok, of course, is saying this is not going to happen. But, who knows.
HILL: What do you think this means for? And again, this is the House bill, right? There are more things that need to happen. We know the support in the Senate is not quite what we saw in the House, at least not as of this moment. But, there could be a major impact, not just on the everyday user, like my teenage sons, but also when we look at small businesses, when we look at influencers who have really turned this into a helpful part of the way they make money doing business. And we heard from a lot --
ISAAC: Right.
HILL: -- of them, right? They really wanted to make their voices heard to lawmakers to voice their opposition.
ISAAC: Yeah. TikTok did -- I mean, I guess it's debatable on whether you think it was smart or not, but they used the product itself essentially to say, go to your lawmakers and push back on it. I totally agree. Similar to how people use Instagram or Facebook for years, they build their businesses on these platforms, as linear television becomes sort of one of many options for people to use to push out ads for themselves. Folks have hedged their bets, and now taking that away, including influencers who built hundreds of thousands or even millions of followers, people are going to get upset. And I think it's realistic at least for folks to, A, think about other options, but B, think of what a world without this platform could look like for them. And that could mean reduced sales and a lot of different changes to how they just reach their followers.
HILL: So, a quick two-parter for you. A, is there another app that you see waiting in the wings that could really step in and take over that market share? And then, B, one of the concerns that we saw from lawmakers was highlighting a single company as opposed to a broader bill that looks at perhaps the way information is gathered with different technologies or whether they're coming from a foreign country. Was that a missed opportunity?
ISAAC: That's a really good point. I think to your second part, yeah, there are a number of still -- there is a number of Chinese-made apps that are in the United States anyway, distributed by the Apple and Google app stores.
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So, like, if the threat is specifically focused on China, that's one thing. It might have been broader or there is Russian-backed apps as well. Like, there are different sort of ways of thinking about this from a national security perspective. But, the fact that it captured half the United States, I imagine plays a large part into it. And then, to the first part, I think it's just -- in some ways, some might debate this, but the Instagram is basically trying to become TikTok over the past few years. They have this product called Reels, which is basically TikTok clone. People repost their TikTok videos to Instagram now, so those will just show up there.
So, Facebook has some pushback on why it could be difficult for them. I don't fully buy it quite yet. But, at the same time, if people go jonesing for the next TikTok, they might just jump over to Instagram, which could help Meta in the long run.
HILL: What a little cycle that would be, sort of a whole circular thing. Mike Isaac, really great to have you. I appreciate your insight. Thank you.
ISAAC: Thanks for having me.
HILL: Just ahead, it is not exactly saber rattling. Vladimir Putin, though, likely rattling a lot of nerves with his latest comments about nuclear war. Plus, the 2024 U.S. general election matchup now set. So, brace yourselves for what is expected to feel like for many Americans, one of the longest and perhaps most contentious presidential campaigns in American history.
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HILL: In a new interview, Russian President Vladimir Putin says his country is ready for a nuclear war, but goes on to say it's not necessary yet, that nuclear weapons would only be used to protect Russia from an existential threat. Mr. Putin also claiming Moscow's nuclear arsenal is far more modern than that of any other nation.
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VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (Interpreted): Our triad, the nuclear triad, it is more modern than any other triad, and it's only us and the Americans who have such triads. In general, if we talk about the carriers and numbers of warheads, we are more or less equal, but ours are more modern. Everybody knows it. All specialists know.
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HILL: CNN Senior International Correspondent Fred Pleitgen joining us now live from Berlin. So, I guess the question is, why now? Why all this talk about nuclear weapons now? It made its way into a weather report just a few days ago in Russia. Is this simply because we are heading into the election, or is there something else at play?
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. The election in Russia is just a couple of days away, of course, taking place this weekend with the main day being March 17 And certainly, it looks very much like Vladimir Putin is going to cruise to another election victory. So, the big question is, why would you do something like that right now? But, one of the things I think that we first and foremost have to see is that pretty much everything that Vladimir Putin says in interviews, like the one that he gave to Kremlin- controlled media, is there for domestic consumption.
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That's certainly said to be what this is as well where he is trying to portray strength, trying to also show Russians that despite some of the economic hardships that they're facing because of the sanctions. Even though Russia's economy has been very resilient in the face of those international sanctions as a result of Russia's full-on invasion of Ukraine, a lot of Russians are suffering hardship. And of course, a lot of Russians, quite frankly, have seen people that they know, in many cases, people that are related to them hedged to the war in Ukraine, and many have not come back and a lot have come back also with serious wounds.
And in the face of that, he is trying to apparently portray some of that strength and saying, look, we are a big nuclear nation, and in fact, we are probably the strongest nuclear country in terms of the weapons and how modern they are, that they have. It is true that Russia has in the past couple of years, Erica, modernized its nuclear weapons, and also the carrier systems, one of them being the Kinzhal, which is a hypersonic weapon that the Russians are using with a conventional warhead in the Ukraine war as well, Erica.
HILL: And when it comes to the war in Ukraine and the significant losses that Russia has suffered, I would imagine those losses not necessarily touched on. But, what else is Putin saying about the war in Ukraine?
PLEITGEN: He is warning other countries, specifically Poland and also the United States, not to send troops to Ukraine, despite the fact that neither Poland nor the U.S. has ever said that they want to do that. Of course, there was some talk after the French President a couple of days ago, said that nothing should be excluded, including sending troops from NATO nations. There is literally no countries that says that they're even thinking about doing that at this point in time. I want to listen to a little bit more of what Vladimir Putin had to say about that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) PUTIN (Interpreted): If it formally comes to military contingents of foreign states being deployed in Ukraine, I am confident this would not change the situation on the battlefield. This is the most important thing. Likewise, the delivery of Western weaponry to Ukraine failed to change anything. Another point, this may lead to serious geopolitical consequences.
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PLEITGEN: So, there, again, serious geopolitical consequences in that same interview where once again he said that Russia is ready for nuclear war. Clearly, a lot of that, as I said, for domestic consumption, but clearly a lot also warning to nations like the U.S. and other NATO allies of the U.S. to stay out of this. And of course, one of the things that Vladimir Putin has been saying over the past couple of months is he is urging, for instance, the U.S. and other countries to negotiate with Russia to try and end the Ukraine war. Of course, they are saying they're not doing that. Any sort of solution has to come through the Ukrainians, Erica.
HILL: Fred Pleitgen, appreciate the reporting, as always. Thank you.
And I do want to take you now to Washington where U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken is meeting with the EU's foreign policy chief Josep Borrell. The meeting, of course, taking place here. This is at the State Department. We're going to monitor that meeting. We will bring you any developments as they come into us here. We're also following this rocket launch which has ended in disappointment for a Japanese space company. We're going to take a closer look at what this was supposed to accomplish, just ahead. Plus, how the European Union is leading the way in trying to mitigate the potentially catastrophic risks of AI.
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HILL: Welcome back, and thanks for joining me here on CNN Newsroom. I'm Erica Hill in New York.
Let's take a look at some the international headlines we're following at this hour. Disappointment for a private Japanese space company after its Kairos rocket exploded just seconds after liftoff. The company behind it, Space One, was hoping to become the first Japanese firm to put a satellite into orbit. It is now trying to determine what happened there.
Dozens of artists boycotting the South by Southwest festival in Texas. Bands, singers and panelists shared notes of solidarity with Palestinians in Gaza, as they announced their withdrawal. Their concerns are over a major event sponsorship from the U.S. Military and defense companies. In a statement, the U.S. Army said it is "proud" to be a sponsor of South by Southwest. Ukraine launching drone attacks overnight on three Russian oil
refineries. This is according to a Ukrainian defense source, who says the attacks are part of a new strategy to interrupt the flow of Russian oil money. Russia reported a fire at one of its refineries, but says its air defenses destroyed dozens of incoming drones.
Here in the U.S., it is the rematch that so many Americans have said they don't want, but it's the one they're getting. President Biden and former President Donald Trump are now the presumptive nominees officially of their parties after winning primaries in Georgia, Mississippi and Washington State on Tuesday. And this race may feel like a long one. Eight months to go now until Election Day, both Trump and Biden, though, wasting no time, looking ahead to November.
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DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We're not going to take time to celebrate. We'll celebrate in eight months when the election is over. November 5, I believe, will go down as the most important day in the history of our country.
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Are you ready to defend democracy? Are you ready to protect our freedom? Are you ready to win this election?
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HILL: CNN's Priscilla Alvarez joins us now from the White House. So, the President is in the midst of a bit of a blitz here, headed to the critical swing state of Wisconsin. What do we expect to see and hear from him today?
PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: That's right, Erica. It's just another example of how seriously they're taking these key battleground seats that President Biden only narrowly won in 2020. Wisconsin is an example of just that. So, the President in a couple hours will be departing the White House here to head to Wisconsin where he is going to announce the opening of a new campaign headquarters in the state, but also tout his infrastructure projects. This is a legislative accomplishment that the administration has often cited and one that we'll be hearing a lot more about on the campaign trail that the President can point to, in trying to make the connection to voters between what his administration has done and what they're feeling on the ground.
But, there is no doubt that the campaign is pivoting now to this general election. While it was likely that this would be the rematch, this is now the moment that the President can go to all of these states and continue to make this case, an extension of what he was already doing over the course of the weekend. Last weekend, for example, he was in Georgia, a crucial state for them to notch a victory in November. And yesterday, it was the state that helped them get over the top, and the campaign saying it was "the cherry" on top for them, because Georgia is a state that's going to be very important in terms of voter mobilization and voter outreach, because there aren't any key statewide races that would bolster voter turnout. So, all of this taken together just shows a campaign that is hitting
the ground running as they try to notch victories in each of these states as they did in 2020, knowing that this is a race that's going to be very, very close.
HILL: Very close indeed. And of course, this particular trip trenches a day after that hearing with Robert Hur who was the Special Counsel when it came to President Biden's handling of classified documents. That report, that was very critical of his memory, his acuity, which we saw a lot of that come up, of course, yesterday at that hearing. Coming out of the hearing, the campaign has been trying to really get out, I would say now, right, after avoiding it for months, now start to get out in front of this age issue. What about the White House on the heels of that hearing?
ALVAREZ: Yeah. I got to tell you, Erica, they were feeling pretty good about the hearing yesterday, and that's because a lot of the hearing was focused on the difference between the cases, between President Biden and former President Donald Trump, and how each of them handled classified documents.
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In the President's case, for example, there were no charges filed. So, as soon as that hearing ended, we had the White House Counsel spokesperson come out and say that the President was innocent. Now, over the course of his testimony, Special Counsel Robert Hur repeatedly said that he had not exonerated the President in his report, but he did make clear that there were no charges brought. And I was talking to the campaign official over the course of the hearing, and the campaign was also feeling pretty confident about the direction of the hearing, because it focused less on the President's age and mental acuity, and more about the difference between the two cases.
But, to your point, Erica, they are trying to get ahead of this. The President has been teasing different lines on the age issue over the last few weeks in fundraisers, for example. We're starting to see some of that spill out in public, and most recently in an ad where the President acknowledges that he is not young, that he is old, but he doesn't hold on to old ideas, as he says the former President does. So, this is something they know is going to be top of mind for voters over the course of the next few months. Their attempt here is to try to diffuse those concerns with the age ad, but also putting the President on the trail.
HILL: Priscilla Alvarez, appreciate the reporting, as always. Thank you.
House Republican Ken Buck of Colorado says he has had it with the dysfunction on Capitol Hill, stunning his colleagues with the announcement that he is leaving Congress for good next week. Now, Buck did say last year he wouldn't be running for reelection. This decision, though, to leave months before the end of his term, really caught many on Capitol Hill by surprise. Here is what he told Dana Bash about that timing.
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REP. KEN BUCK (R-CO): But, a lot of this is personal, and that's the problem. Instead of having decorum, instead of operating in a professional manner, this place has just evolved into this bickering and nonsense and not really doing the job for the American people.
DANA BASH, CNN HOST: Is it that bad that you're saying I'm done?
BUCK: It is the worst year of the nine years and three months that I've been in Congress. And having talked to former members, it's the worst year in 40, 50 years to be in Congress.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: A stark assessment there. Buck's departure will further shrink the Republican majority, Republicans with a very narrow 218 to 213 advantage in the House, which means they can only afford to lose two votes along party lines in order to get legislation passed.
Our panel is back. Matt Mowers and Mo Elleithee, good to see you both again.
Matt, when we look at this, what we're hearing, look, plenty of Americans feel there is a lot of dysfunction in Washington, right, the folks who are not there. But, the fact that so little has gotten done, and we have now Ken Buck on his way out at the end of next week, what does that tell you? I mean, at this point, is this Congress a wash? Can anything happen in Washington before the election?
MOWERS: I think you're going to have just the must passes, which is the budget, NDAA, which they're getting through, and everything else. That's going to be what Congress gets done. Anything outside of that is highly unlikely. We've not seen Congress in an election year pass anything significant for quite some time, let alone in this Congress where you have such a narrow and ever shrinking majority. Look, Ken Buck, I believe, resigned for numbers -- resigning early for a number of reasons, some of which are personal, professional reasons for whatever his next opportunity is. But, it does make it more complicated. It's even more complicated by the fact that you have Lauren Boebert, member of Congress from Colorado, who changed districts, is actually running for his open seat.
The challenges with a special election that's likely to happen or a special nominating process there, if she were somehow selected, she would then have to resign her other seat. So, it really is a complicated situation that Congressman Buck has presented everyone with. I was with the Speaker the last night, and I can tell you, this does not make his job any easier, not that was easy in the first place.
HILL: No. It certainly wasn't. And Mo, we should look at this. We even heard from when Kyrsten Sinema talked about why she is leaving, saying there is no place sort of left for a centrist, she feels, in the Senate. When you look at the way things are playing out, how much do you think that will influence voters come November? ELLEITHEE: Well, look, there is -- it's no surprise that voters don't like this town. They don't like Congress. When you look at any sort of survey of public trust in institutions, Congress is consistently, over the past few years, ranked if not at the bottom, pretty close to it. So, I feel like the sense what Ken Buck is articulating, what Kyrsten Sinema is articulating, is already baked in. But, it's not changing the behavior of anyone here, and that's for a very, very simple reason, particularly in the House, and that is the political incentive structure doesn't push them to change their behavior. Because of the way our districts are drawn, there are fewer and fewer swing districts. People have to play to their base because that's who they represent increasingly.
[11:40:00]
They are just representing their base. And so, what you see is a lot of political posturing by folks trying to make their voters happy by showing some fight. But, as a result, you are seeing maybe the least productive Congress that we have seen in generations.
HILL: It certainly feels that way. Doesn't it? I want to look at the results from Georgia last night, which were really interesting when we look at the vote split for Donald Trump and Nikki Haley, Nikki Haley with more than 77,000 votes there. Of course, far more than what Joe Biden actually had to win that election, we know the votes that Donald Trump was searching for. Looking at Georgia, Matt, not every Nikki Haley voter is necessarily a registered Republican. We know that. But, how concerning do you think those numbers should be for the campaign, given that Georgia is such a crucial state, and how badly, of course, both Donald Trump and Joe Biden would like to take that state come November?
MOWERS: Well, they've certainly got to be aware of him, be prepared to reach out to some of her supporters. Now, the Trump campaign will tell you that a lot of those votes were cast during early voting. They were -- some of them were even cast when Nikki Haley was still in the race. So, they'll make that argument that that contributes to some of that vote share. You talked about the fact that some of the folks who voted for her have never voted for Donald Trump. They voted for whether it's Secretary Clinton or President Biden in 2016 or 2020.
And so, I think in Georgia, based upon the polling I've seen, President Trump has a lead over President Biden of anywhere from five to eight points right now, which is pretty significant in the scheme of things. But, it doesn't mean he can take his eye off the ball. And it's clearly going to be a lot of those more moderate Republicans, those 10 percent to 15 percent of Republicans who love the policies, supported the policies of the Trump administration, but may not be comfortable with some of the tweets and the personality, or maybe some of the things after the 2020 election or following the case down in Fulton, Georgia, as well.
HILL: Mo, I was struck by some reporting from my colleague Eva McKend. She was at an RFK Jr. event in Brooklyn, talking to a lot of black voters about why they are turning away from Biden. Some of them telling her that they're still in a bad place, and seeing this sort of boost in support for RFK Jr. When you're looking at the potential disruption that that could bring in the race with his candidacy, where do you think those pockets are most significant?
ELLEITHEE: Yeah. When I talked to smart Democratic operatives, this is the thing that keeps them up at night more than anything else. It is the impact of third-party candidates shaving just enough votes away in some of the battleground states. And so, the campaign has to, has to make sure it's not taking anybody for granted. And what you're seeing increasingly is the need to essentially fight a two-front war, drawing contrasts with not just Donald Trump, but with potential third-party candidates. You've seen in recent weeks, the Democratic National Committee has even set up an entire war room dedicated to just that, to just third-party candidates, and making those distinctions.
Look, at the end of the day, an election campaign is a choice. It is not a referendum. It is a choice. And so, the Biden campaign, maybe more than most incumbents typically do, have to make the choice abundantly clear. They're just going to have to do that on two fronts now.
HILL: Mo Elleithee, Matt Mowers, great to have you both with us today. Thank you.
MOWERS: Thanks so much.
HILL: There are some new developments happening in a trial we've been following very closely out of the state of Michigan, where the father of a school shooter is facing manslaughter charges. Both the prosecution and the defense in the trial of James Crumbley have now rested their cases. Prosecutors called some 15 witnesses across five days. The defense rested after calling just a single witness, Crumbley's sister. Crumbley declined to testify in his own defense.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARIELL LEHMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: And you talked extensively about whether or not you're testifying.
JAMES CRUMBLEY, FATHER OF SCHOOL SHOOTER ETHAN CRUMBLEY: That is correct.
LEHMAN: And knowing all of that, is it your decision to testify or is your decision to remain silent?
CRUMBLEY: It is my decision to remain silent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: On Tuesday, bank receipts revealed that Crumbley has drained their son's bank account of $3,000 the day of the shooting. In the following days, he withdrew some $6,000 in cash. James Crumbley's wife, Jennifer, has already been convicted on manslaughter charges for their son's shooting rampage in 2021.
Still to come here, a whole lot scarier than science fiction, a new report which finds AI could pose an extinction level threat to the human race. Plus, the growing concerns over Boeing's maintenance. Details ahead of the U.S. government's response to that Alaska Airlines door plug blowout.
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[11:45:00]
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HILL: Boeing officials could be subpoenaed to testify this summer following the door plug blowout on an Alaska Airlines flight. The National Transportation Safety Board is set to convene a rare public hearing, which will be the first time the board focuses on an incident involving a 737 MAX. The door plug incident, though it's important to point out, is not the only concern.
CNN's Pete Muntean has the details now and so the other questions being raised when it comes to Boeing's maintenance.
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PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): New images show the aftermath of Monday's mysterious in-flight jolt on a Chilean Boeing 787. LATAM Airlines says a technical event caused a strong movement on board, injuring 50 passengers who peppered the pilots with questions.
BRIAN JOKAT, LATAM FLIGHT 800 PASSENGER: I immediately engaged with him and said, what was that? And he openly admitted. He said, I lost control of the plane. My gauges just kind of went blank on me, and that's when the plane just took a dive.
MUNTEAN (voice-over): Boeing says it is standing by to help investigate the incident, the latest involving a Boeing plane, following the Alaska Airlines door plug blowout in January, a wheel falling off a United flight last week, and hydraulic fluid trailing from another United flight during takeoff from Sydney this week.
MARY SCHIAVO, FORMER TRANSPORTATION DEPARTMENT INSPECTOR GENERAL: People are pretty wary of Boeing right now. And when anything happens on a Boeing, people want to know.
MUNTEAN (voice-over): Though there is no clear link between each incident, Boeing remains under the microscope of federal investigators. The Federal Aviation Administration now says it has completed its review of the 737 production line, with The New York Times reporting Boeing failed 33 of 89 quality control audits.
MICHAEL WHITAKER, FAA ADMINISTRATOR: It wasn't just paperwork issues. Sometimes, it is order that work is done. Sometimes, it's tool management. It sounds kind of pedestrian, but it's really important in a factory that you have a way of tracking your tools effectively so that you have the right tool and you know you didn't leave it behind.
MUNTEAN (voice-over): FAA scrutiny follows anger from the National Transportation Safety Board, which blasted Boeing on Capitol Hill last week for failing to provide records that detailed the omission of key bolts from the Alaska Airlines plane. Boeing says those records do not exist.
JENNIFER HOMENDY, CHAIR, NATIONAL TRANSPORTATION SAFETY BOARD: We don't have the records. We don't have the names of the 25 people that is in charge of doing that work in that facility. It's absurd that two months later we don't have that.
MUNTEAN: The National Transportation Safety Board just announced a rare hearing on the Alaska Airlines door plug incident. That means Boeing officials could be subpoenaed to testify publicly. Boeing has not indicated how it will respond, but it is answering to the findings from the FAA's audit. A new Boeing memo underscores that workers must precisely follow every step when building airplanes.
Pete Muntean, CNN, Washington.
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[11:50:00]
HILL: Well, let's take a look at how Boeing is doing. You can see, down just slightly this hour in early trading on Wall Street. Taking a look more broadly across the U.S., sort of a mixed bag for you there. And let's take a look at Europe and Asia, how those markets are shaping up. A little bit more green on top there for you. We'll continue to follow those.
Still to come here, a new report warns of the existential threat posed by AI. So, how is the European Union now leading the way to create safeguards?
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HILL: One more thing on this Wednesday. A new report warns artificial intelligence could pose catastrophic security risks, including an existential threat to the human race. The report, which was commissioned by the U.S. State Department, says time is running out for the government to avert disaster. Researchers say there are two main dangers at play here, the weaponization of AI that could inflict potentially irreversible damage, and concerns that AI labs could actually lose control of their own creations, noting AI should be considered a security risk on par with nuclear weapons.
The European Union is leading the way now in policing AI. Today, its Parliament gave final approval to what is being called the world's first comprehensive binding framework for trustworthy artificial intelligence. The law imposes blanket bans on some unacceptable uses of the technology, while also enacting some stiff guardrails for other apps deemed high risk.
CNN's Brian Fung is following the story from Washington. So, what actually changes now that this law has passed?
BRIAN FUNG, CNN TECHNOLOGY REPORTER: Yeah, Erica. This is a major new law that goes into effect roughly two years from now, and it targets a number of things that are deemed unacceptable to the European Union, things like the use of AI to try to predict whether a person is likely to commit a crime in the future, or the use of AI to build social credit scoring systems that could determine whether you're eligible for benefits, things like whether AI companies can scrape facial recognition data from CCTV cameras and other surveillance footage. All of those things would be outright banned and prohibited under this law.
Now, there are a number of other kind of lower risk uses of AI that the EU acknowledges can be useful, but would want some serious safeguards around. So, any AI that may be used for healthcare decisions or economic or hiring decisions, the use of AI in situations that could end up affecting elections and democratic processes, all of those applications would be subject to some pretty tough oversight and rules to ensure that it doesn't get out of hand. And then, there are a set of broader regulations on sort of general purpose AI companies like OpenAI and ChatGPT that would force them to disclose more about how their systems work. And it would also force anyone who is creating deep fakes, essentially manipulated images using AI, to disclose that they're using -- that they're creating material that's not real.
So, this is a pretty broad approach to regulating artificial intelligence that's never really been seen anywhere in the world.
HILL: Yeah, Brian, as you mentioned, two years from now goes into effect, but be interesting to see how that is policed. Quickly before I let you go, the State Department, U.S. State Department report about AI posing an existential threat to humanity.
[11:55:00]
Does this law address any of those specific concerns in the report?
FUNG: Yeah. That's a great question. And that report and looking at the potential existential threat of AI, that's a pretty big, long term kind of risk that faces humanity. And this AI law that was just passed, is really more focused on some of the more immediate harms that we may be seeing right now, as companies start rolling out AI tools, focusing on how people could be subjected to discrimination or suffer economic harms as a result of AI. But, it does lay kind of a foundation for a potential future regulation to try to address some of that existential risk. Erica.
HILL: Yeah. And as lawmakers and countries, frankly, try to keep up with this technology, which is evolving so quickly, Brian, really appreciate it. Thank you.
I'm Erica Hill. Thanks to all of you for joining me this hour. Stay tuned. One World with Bianna Golodryga is up next on CNN.
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