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Georgia Judge Dismisses Some Charges Against Donald Trump; Interview With Rep. Seth Moulton (D-MA); Congress Moves to Potentially Ban TikTok. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired March 13, 2024 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:49]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: And you are in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.

We begin this hour with breaking news up on Capitol Hill. Just minutes ago, House lawmakers passed a bill that could lead to a ban of the very popular social media platform TikTok here in the United States. If passed by the Senate and then signed into law by President Biden, the measure would give the company less than six months to sell to a non-Chinese owner.

If that doesn't happen, TikTok could be shut down here in the United States. China is calling the bill an act of bullying. Users of the platform, which is widely popular, especially among younger Americans, are rallying to try to protect it.

Let's begin our coverage up on Capitol Hill right now.

Our chief CNN congressional correspondent, Manu Raju, is watching all of this.

Manu, this was a very rare, overwhelming bipartisan vote.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, something you don't see in this very polarized political environment in this narrowly divided House, but overwhelming passage, a majority of both caucuses in the House voting to pass this bill, send it to the United States Senate.

Ultimately, the vote count was 352 members voting for it. There were 65 members who voted against it. That broke down 155 Democrats voting yes, 197 Republicans voting yes, 50 Democrats voted against it, 15 Republicans voted no, even as Donald Trump, the former president, the party's presumptive nominee, came out against it.

Trump, of course, had supported banning TikTok in the past, reversed his position, contended it could help Facebook by banning TikTok. Also, he had recently had met with a GOP megadonor who has a huge stake in TikTok. But, nevertheless, Republicans essentially brushed aside those

concerns, including House Republican leaders, to get behind this effort. Now, the Senate side, there's some -- that's going to be the big question.

What will happen there in the Senate? This will move over there. And there are top members in the Senate who are uncertain about how this will play out because of the fact that they are have issues with some of the language in this bill, particularly naming a specific company, which has raised some constitutional concerns among senators who may want to change this bill.

I caught up with a couple of them earlier this week. And they made clear that perhaps this bill will have to change as it works its way through the process.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARK WARNER (D-VA): Well, I still have concerns about naming a specific company in legislation, but it feels like this House bill has momentum. I have been in conversations with Chairman Gallagher.

And I think at the end of the day, the most important thing is that we deal with the very real concerns, security concerns around TikTok.

SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R-TX): The Chinese Communist Party is very accomplished at playing Whac-A-Mole. For example, you could eliminate TikTok, but they could open it up tomorrow, TokTik, whatever you want to call it and do the same thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Now, Mark Warner and his top counterpart on the Senate Intelligence Committee just put out a statement, Wolf, saying that: "We are encouraged by today's vote," and they will work to try to get this bill passed through the Senate and signed into law.

But there are several versions of the bill in the Senate to ban TikTok. The majority leader in the Senate, Chuck Schumer, has indicated he's in no rush to move ahead, wants to move through the committee process.

So, Wolf, it will take time in the Senate. And can it become law before the election with so many young voters concerned about this, that's a big question in the weeks ahead -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes, 170 million users of TikTok here in the United States; 170 million people use TikTok right now. We will see what happens in the Senate, and then we will see what President Biden does as far as signing it into law.

Manu Raju up on Capitol Hill, thank you very much.

Even before the first vote was cast on Capitol Hill earlier today, China's government lashed out at the bill and delivered some very strong words to the United States. CNN correspondent Marc Stewart is in Beijing for us. He's joining us

live right now.

Marc, you're getting reaction from China's Foreign Ministry this morning. What are officials there saying?

[11:05:00]

MARC STEWART, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Wolf. Good morning.

The messaging from Beijing is very blunt. China is accusing the United States of acting like a bully. It's a point that came up when I was posing a question to a spokesperson from China's Ministry of Foreign Affairs. I asked him, regardless of what happens today, there is this feeling of distrust by American lawmakers, by some members of the American public toward Chinese companies.

Let's listen to what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WANG WENBIN, CHINESE FOREIGN MINISTRY SPOKESMAN (through translator): Even though the U.S. has not found evidence on how TikTok endangers its national security, it has never stopped going after TikTok.

Such practice of resorting to acts of bullying, when one cannot succeed in fair competition, disrupts the normal operation of the market. It undermines the confidence of international investors and sabotages the global economic and trade order. This will eventually backfire on the U.S. itself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STEWART: I also asked a follow-up.

I was curious about the role the Chinese government was taking with TikTok. Is it advising ByteDance? The response I was given was very much what you just heard, Wolf, no further insight from the Chinese government on that.

BLITZER: Marc Stewart in Beijing for us.

Marc, thank you very, very much. We will stay in close touch with you.

Joining us now, Democratic Congressman Seth Moulton of Massachusetts. He's a key member of the House Select Committee on China. He's also a co-sponsor of this bill which was just passed in the House

You voted in favor of passing this legislation.

REP. SETH MOULTON (D-MA): I did. I did, yes, Wolf.

BLITZER: Give me your immediate reaction to what we just heard from the Chinese reaction, that this is going to backfire on the U.S. MOULTON: I mean, first of all, it's pretty rich. I mean, the Chinese

have been bullying users on TikTok for years. It's just most users don't know it until they get banned, like they put up something against the Uyghur genocide or something like that and suddenly they're shadow banned from TikTok.

Of course, the other comment the Chinese official made is that Americans are somehow manipulating markets. Well, that's what China does all day long. They subsidize state companies. They don't practice fair trade practices. They manipulate markets all the time.

And, actually, they brought on a great economic crisis as a result. So I'm not worried about our economy. I would be worried about China's.

BLITZER: Yes, the bill passed the House, once again, 352 in favor, 65 against. One person voted present. It was major bipartisan support.

MOULTON: Major bipartisan support. In fact, it passed unanimously out of committee to get to the floor.

It just shows that people really understand that this is a threat. You have 170 million Americans, about 45 percent of the country, getting their news on TikTok. I mean, look, in the middle of the Cold War, we wouldn't have allowed the Soviet Union to own CNN. That's really what we're talking about here.

We just don't want the Chinese Communist Party owning TikTok, owning all of Americans' private data on TikTok and manipulating the feeds that they get. So this is not a bill to ban TikTok. They just need to sell TikTok to an American owner, and I think TikTok will get a lot better as a result.

BLITZER: Are you confident that the Senate will pass this legislation?

Because the Senate majority, Chuck Schumer, he seems to be delaying it, at least a little bit.

MOULTON: Well, I mean, I have been in Washington long enough to learn that you don't really count on the Senate to do anything quickly.

But I do think there is strong momentum here. It's clearly a bipartisan consensus. And one of the things that I have noticed over time about China is that there's a strong correlation between those who are willing to take action on China, doing things like banning TikTok, and simply access to intelligence.

In other words, once you see the intelligence reports and you understand all the stuff that China is doing behind the scenes, you're much more likely to get on board with this. I suspect there are members of the Senate who need to get briefed up on just how dangerous China's control of TikTok can be, and then you will see even more support there.

BLITZER: I was interested in your Democratic colleague Maxwell Frost -- and I assume you know him. MOULTON: Yes.

BLITZER: ... is raising concerns about the potential impact of this bill on young voters, voters. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MAXWELL FROST (D-FL): I don't think it'll be helpful with young voters.

But my argument here, yes, it has to do with young people, but taking a step back, I just think it's bad policy and fixing this problem that we do have to fix.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: What's your reaction to what he said?

MOULTON: Well, first of all, this is about our national security. This is about protecting American values, freedom of speech, not having a foreign Communist Party regulating what Americans can say online.

All of that is more important than just catering to young voters. But I do know that there are a lot of young Americans, whether you vote or not, who are concerned about this. And I just want to emphasize, Wolf, this is not a ban. We're just saying to China, you have to sell this sell this, sell it to an American company.

And then guess what? TikTok is not going to be manipulated by the Chinese Communist Party. It's actually going to be more representative of Americans, more representative of TikTok users. I think people will see TikTok improve after this sale happens.

BLITZER: Congressman Seth Moulton, thanks very much for coming in. Thanks very much for joining us.

[11:10:00]

MOULTON: Good to see you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Appreciate it very much.

Still ahead, there's breaking news out of Georgia right now. The judge in Fulton County just dismissed some of the charges against Donald Trump and his co-defendants. We will head there for an update. That's coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BLITZER: And there's more breaking news we're following this hour.

[11:15:00]

The judge has just dismissed some of the charges against Donald Trump in his election subversion case down in Fulton County, Georgia.

CNN correspondent Nick Valencia is in Atlanta for us.

Nick, what can you tell us?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, this is a 41-count indictment. Now six of those charges have been dismissed.

The charges having to deal with the defendants allegedly trying to get public officials to violate their oath of office. And this is a big victory as defendants wait for the decision from Scott McAfee, the judge in this case, as to whether he's going to remove Fani Willis.

He went out of his way in this order, though, to say that this does not dismiss the indictment, but it does dismiss six of those 41 counts.

And I want to read here what he had to say about why he decided to issue this order, saying -- quote -- "The court's concern is less that the state has failed to allege sufficient conduct of the defendants. In fact, it has alleged an abundance. However, the lack of detail concerning an essential legal element is in the undersigned's opinion fatal."

So, basically, the judge is saying that the DA's office didn't do a good enough job to prove what the alleged crimes that these defendants were trying to solicit from these public officials to prove their case. So now these charges have been thrown out.

To be clear, though, we are still waiting for Scott McAfee's decision as to whether he's going to remove Fani Willis from this case. That decision, he indicated, could happen by the end of this week -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Lots going on. Nick Valencia down in Atlanta, thank you very much.

Let's discuss this and more with CNN chief legal affairs correspondent Paula Reid, CNN senior political analyst Gloria Borger, CNN political commentator and Republican strategist Shermichael Singleton, and CNN legal analyst and former federal prosecutor Elliot Williams.

Paula, let me go to you first.

Hunter Biden is in the news all of a sudden right now. He's declining an invitation to come and appear before the House Oversight Committee?

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: That's right.

As you probably remember, late last month, he testified behind closed doors before the House Oversight Committee, testified for about six hours. And when they came out of that hearing, it was clear that Republicans didn't get what they had hoped from him. He was not helpful to their ongoing efforts to investigate the Biden family.

Now, before the closed-door hearing, Hunter Biden and his lawyers had said that they would be willing to do a public hearing. They said they wanted the American public to be able to hear Hunter's side of the story. Well, they agreed to the behind-closed-door interview.

Following that behind-closed-door appearance, Chairman Comer said that he believed that there would be a public hearing. He said, next up, we're going to hear from Hunter Biden publicly. But now the Hunter Biden team has declined an invitation for Hunter to appear alongside some other discredited business associates.

And right now, they're focused on the idea that, look, if Hunter Biden is going to continue out to face questions about this, Jared Kushner should too. If we're going to talk about foreign influence peddling, now the Hunter Biden camps approaches, all right, that's fine. If you have a hearing with Jared Kushner, Hunter Biden will show up too.

BLITZER: Because originally Hunter Biden, correct me if I'm wrong...

REID: Yes.

BLITZER: ... Hunter Biden's team said they want to testify, but only before a public open hearing and not behind closed doors.

REID: Exactly. It's been a long, winding path to get to any hearing at all, but it started out with an invitation to do a behind-closed- door deposition. Hunter Biden's team said, no, it'll only be public.

But after a few high-profile stunts by Hunter Biden and his lawyers, showing up unannounced on the Hill, even showing up to a hearing on contempt against Hunter Biden, look, they played hardball and eventually they did agree to do this behind-closed-doors interview with Hunter, but it was because they got some pretty good terms, including having the transcript of that interview released pretty quickly thereafter, so Republicans couldn't spin what he said.

But then there was this question, all right, are you ever going to do the public hearing? And, right now, the invitation that Hunter Biden has received, again, it's not just him. It's other business associates who have been discredited. That's going to be the panel that would appear publicly.

Hunter Biden's team said, we will pass, but if you want to do a hearing with Jared Kushner and Hunter Biden, we will be there.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I don't think Jared Kushner and -- would show up, first of all. I don't think so.

And, also, he's already testified. I mean, he's already testified. What's the purpose of having him testify again if it's not for show?

BLITZER: Yes, we will see what happens on that front. Well, it's going on.

Elliot, let's talk about the other breaking news we're following.

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes.

BLITZER: The judge in the Georgia election case throwing out some, not all, but some of the charges against Donald Trump and his co- defendants. How significant is this?

WILLIAMS: It's bad for the prosecution, but not fatal. And any prosecutor bringing a case, look, it's frustrating to have charges thrown out that you spent months working on, putting before a grand jury and so on.

There's a couple of things. Number one, the judge all but invites the prosecutors to refile these charges. They have, what, a six-month period in which they can refile the charges. And the issue here is that the indictments weren't sufficiently specific as to some of the counts, right?

And you can correct that. It's not like the judge found that there was no possible set of circumstances under which these charges could be filed. So it's really up to the prosecutors to decide whether to bring these charges again.

[11:20:00]

The one sort of bit of intrigue and interesting aspect of it is now, with these six charges dismissed, Mark Meadows now only has the racketeering charge against him. He'd been charged with two offenses, this violation of oath and racketeering. The violation of oath charge is now out.

So there's really only one count that applies to Mark Meadows in the indictment as it exists today.

BLITZER: That's a significant count, though.

WILLIAMS: Yes, that's a big one. That's the big one, clear, yes.

BLITZER: Yes. That's what I mean, yes.

You know, what's your take, Gloria?

BORGER: Well, this doesn't throw out the Raffensperger count, former President Trump calling Brad Raffensperger asking for, what was it, 11,700 votes, right? I mean, that is still contained in this indictment.

WILLIAMS: In terms of being a violation of one's oath of office to have made that call, no, that's not -- I mean, that's not a charge anymore.

Now, that -- now, the judge is also clear that all of the conduct in these charges that were tossed still can apply to other charges. It's just this specific crime in Georgia of violating one's oath of office.

BORGER: So what would that come under then?

WILLIAMS: That's the thing. It's -- because the oath of office in Georgia is pretty broad, prosecutors didn't say what aspect of their oath was violated here. Was it, I don't know, pledging to take care and defend and protect the Georgia state constitution or whatever else? All prosecutors have to do if they wish to proceed is just say, we are charging you with the crime of violation of because on this date this is the way you broke the oath that you swore to, and it would probably stand up in court.

BLITZER: Shermichael, how do you see it?

SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean, look, Wolf, I think for most Americans they're principally concerned with a few other things.

I think the idea of Donald Trump and the political court cases that are pending are sort of baked in. For the most part, it's intrigue. It's a lot of chaos. But I think when you compare that to other things, such as the economy, immigration, I think most viewers politically would see that as a sort of set-aside.

I think many Republican voters are going to come to the aid and rally behind the former president because they see this through the lens of sort of political prosecution, if you will. For independent voters, I think the president and Republicans have to articulate other important things.

Under President Biden, sure, you have a job, but you have seen an erosion of your spending power. Maybe you're a younger person graduated from college, you can't afford to buy your first home. So if they can articulate that message, you sort of remove the focus from the court trials and back to some of those more tangible things that really impact people's day-to-day lives.

WILLIAMS: A really important point here is you have two lawyers on the panel now who just...

REID: Recovering.

WILLIAMS: Oh, recovering lawyers who spent two minutes explaining a somewhat arcane provision in Georgia law in an indictment.

What Trump and his supporters are going to hear is, we have won today in court. They're throwing it all away. This is all junk. And it's easy to reduce this, to Shermichael's point, to a political issue. It's, yes, there's an important charge tossed from the indictment. It's not a huge one, but it's a victory for Trump.

And they can spin it as a victory.

BORGER: 'Twas ever thus. He spins everything as a victory, right?

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Go ahead, Paula.

REID: It's also so chaotic down there, right?

WILLIAMS: Yes. REID: I mean, if we step aside from just the charges themselves, it's the political atmosphere surrounding this case, completely unlike the other three criminal prosecutions he's facing.

These efforts to disqualify Fani Willis, even if they are not successful with removing her from the case, they have certainly tainted, right, the view of this prosecution. This is something that even the average American voter who's not paying attention to all of his legal issues, they would be like, wait a second, you had a romantic relationship with the person who's overseeing this?

They received hundreds of thousands of dollars. And even as lawyers, while we can explain while some of that may not have met the standard that has been set for disqualification, there's an ick factor. And it's not just Trump, right, who is on trial in these cases. It is the integrity, the trust of the justice system.

And that's the biggest problem down in Georgia. It's just such a chaotic mess.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: And one more thing to add on top of that, the judge, as he's writing this opinion, is up for reelection.

And there's no -- there's -- we have no reason to suggest he's not acting in an aboveboard, proper manner, calling balls and strikes as he sees them, but he's still in a political campaign himself and...

BORGER: He just gave a public interview.

WILLIAMS: Just gave a public interview. And it's -- that's the great tragedy in many jurisdictions in this country, that you make judges run as politicians.

BLITZER: I thought that was pretty extraordinary for this judge in a high-profile sitting trial like this is doing public interviews, in effect, campaigning for his reelection.

WILLIAMS: Campaigning.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: It's mind-boggling.

BORGER: It's bad.

SINGLETON: We have also seen two political challengers potentially to Fani Willis that have come out and said that they're going to challenge her, because they now don't believe that she has the best interest or the ability to really lead.

And so you are seeing, to Paula's point and also to your point, the politicization of this, of people saying, wait a minute here. If I was on my job, would I still have a job if I displayed this type of behavior? BLITZER: Yes.

SINGLETON: I think the answer is no.

BORGER: Yes.

BLITZER: Paula, there's going to be an interesting development tomorrow.

Trump is expected to be in court. Tell us about that.

REID: So, this is for the Mar-a-Lago classified documents case, the allegations that he mishandled those documents and tried to obstruct efforts to get them back.

And the judge tomorrow, she's going to hear arguments about motions to dismiss these charges. Now, we don't expect that the case is going to be completely dismissed, but all of these cases, the big question is timing, right, a hearing here, a filing there, a few days, a few weeks.

[11:25:02]

The goal of the Trump team is and has always been to get the two federal cases, of which this is one, pushed past the election. Why do they want to get it pushed past the election? Well, if Trump is reelected, he can make both of those cases go away.

So what we're watching for tomorrow is, we don't really expect the charges will be dismissed. We're looking for any clues as to when this case is going to go to trial because I was there a week or two, I lose track, down in Fort Pierce, when the judge was hearing arguments about how far back to delay this case.

So what we're really watching down there is when Aileen Cannon, the Trump-appointed judge, puts this case on the trial, so -- on the calendar, because, again, it's getting pretty close to the election.

But I will say something that was really interesting last time I was down there is, the Justice Department revealed that they are open to bringing that case even within the two months before the election. That was an open question. How close to the election are you willing to go? Usually, they don't take investigative steps that close to an election in a case that could impact the outcome.

But the fact that the Justice Department is willing to take this case to trial maybe in September or October, that is significant, but, ultimately, it's up to the judge to decide when this goes.

BLITZER: Both Biden and Trump now have more than enough delegates to become their respective party nominees.

BORGER: They do.

BLITZER: And Biden tomorrow is going to be in Wisconsin.

It's a state that he narrowly won in 2020.

BORGER: That's right.

BLITZER: And polls right now showing that he's behind Trump in Wisconsin, at least some of the recent polls.

BORGER: He's behind Trump in a lot of the states he won in 2020, and that's a real problem for him.

And what he's got to do is get his constituencies back under the tent. And that's not easy. And what he's trying to do right now, and we see it every day, is make this a choice election. And, in that case, Donald Trump almost becomes the incumbent and you're running against Donald Trump.

So he's reminding people of the chaos under Donald Trump, as Nikki Haley would put it. And then he's got to explain to them what he's done for people, prescription drug benefits, insulin -- lowering the cost of insulin for seniors and all the rest of it, and tell them what his vision is for the future and what he's going to do for them in the future.

But I think what we're hearing now is that he's telling people, I'm the optimistic candidate. I'm not the candidate who has this dystopian vision about America and this country.

The other day, Donald Trump said, America is dying. And I think what you're going to hear from Joe Biden is an optimistic message, that America will prosper.

BLITZER: Optimism is important.

All right, guys, thank you very, very much.

Still ahead, we're getting new details right now about the Alaska Airlines flight that lost a door panel mid-flight and the warning signs just days beforehand.

Stay with us. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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