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President Biden Campaigns in Michigan; Chuck Schumer Calls For New Israeli Elections; Fani Willis Decision Expected Soon; Trump in Court in Florida. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired March 14, 2024 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:33]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Happening now: Donald Trump is back in a Florida courtroom, as his attorneys fight to have the charges in his classified documents case dismissed. We're live in Florida.

Meantime, in Georgia, the Fulton County judge who just dropped three charges against Trump could decide whether to remove district attorney Fani Willis from the election subversion case.

And just moments ago, on the U.S. Senate floor, the majority leader, Chuck Schumer, called for new elections in Israel, sharply criticizing the prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu.

Hello. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington, and you're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

Just two days after he clinched his party's presidential nomination, Donald Trump is back in another familiar role today, as a court defendant. The former president of the United States is attending a critical hearing in his classified documents case. Trump has pleaded not guilty to dozens of charges related to his alleged mishandling of highly classified documents, and for obstructing the Justice Department's investigation.

Trump and his attorneys will ask the judge to dismiss the charges, or at least to delay the trial.

CNN senior crime and justice reporter Katelyn Polantz is just outside the courthouse in Fort Pierce, Florida, for us.

Katelyn, you're learning more about what's unfolding right now inside the courtroom. What can you tell us?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Right, Wolf.

This hearing's been going on for about an hour now, and the first people to stand up and argue are lawyers for Donald Trump. They're arguing that the records he took at the end of his presidency and kept at Mar-a-Lago after the presidency are personal records, his to keep.

And the judge already has some harsh questions for Donald Trump's lawyer, Emil Bove. She has been asking if Trump's request here is premature. So he's come to her and said, these are personal records. And because I'm telling you that, you should be dismissing this case on the legal grounds here.

What Judge Cannon is asking, though, is this something that is a legal question at this time that she should be looking at? Or is this something that is a factual dispute that perhaps could be something that would be picked up later by a jury or that the parties could argue at a later date?

And so she's questioning Trump's attorneys, not making any rulings just yet on this. They also are arguing, Trump's team is arguing that she should be looking at what happened with Joe Biden and how he had records after the vice presidency that were found and articulated, memorialized by that report of special counsel Robert Hur just a few weeks ago.

That is what they're trying to get Cannon to do. But the Justice Department is going to come back here. They're going to have a chance to argue and underline just how different this case is in their investigation, how these are national defense records about very sensitive nuclear and military secrets of the United States and other foreign nations and how in this situation, there is an obstruction component, that this isn't just about having documents after the presidency or choosing to keep them.

It's about Donald Trump thwarting a subpoena from a grand jury in a federal investigation -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes, it's huge, huge developments unfolding.

Katelyn, we will get back to you. Thank you very much.

Katelyn Polantz is in Fort Pierce, Florida, for us.

Any moment now, there could also be a seismic shift in another criminal case against Donald Trump. The judge in the Georgia election subversion case is deciding if he will disqualify the district attorney. Trump and his co-defendants want Fani Willis removed, accusing her of financially benefiting by hiring her special prosecutor in the case.

Disqualifying Fani Willis would derail the trial set for August right in the thick of the presidential campaign.

CNN's Nick Valencia as in Atlanta for us.

Nick, Judge Scott McAfee said he would announce his decision by Friday. That's namely tomorrow. So the clock is clearly ticking.

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The clock is ticking, Wolf. Will she stay or will she go?

We are standing by for that monumental decision from Judge McAfee, with tomorrow being the deadline for the two-week self-imposed timeline he gave himself to make a decision. He said he's going to make this decision with the best understanding he has of the law.

But what is that understanding? That's the big question. Is the threshold for a disqualification an actual conflict or simply the appearance of one? This case is unprecedented. And we are here because Fani Willis was able to secure an indictment, a historic indictment, against the former president and some of his closest allies.

[11:05:10]

And while the last several months it may have seemed like she's the one on trial, she made it clear during those disqualifications that she wasn't. In fact, she was insulted by the very essence of these claims.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FANI WILLIS (D), FULTON COUNTY, GEORGIA, DISTRICT ATTORNEY: It's highly offensive when someone lies on you, and it's highly offensive when they try to implicate that you slept with somebody the first day you met with them. And I take exception to it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You started dating shortly thereafter, correct?

WILLIS: That's a lie. That's one of your lies.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VALENCIA: If Fani Willis is dismissed, this case gets handed over to the Prosecuting Attorneys' Council. That's a nine-member panel of solicitors general and former district attorneys. And it would be up to them to pick a new prosecutor.

If she stays, then this potentially could get back on track for a trial in August, but with every day that passes by, that seems less and less likely -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, we will watch it together with you, Nick Valencia. The stakes there are enormous as well.

I want to continue this conversation right now.

Joining us now, the former federal prosecutor and CNN senior legal analyst Elie Honig, also with us, CNN's chief legal affairs correspondent, Paula Reid, and CNN national correspondent Kristen Holmes, who's been doing a lot of reporting on all of this.

If the judge, Elie, decides to remove her from this case, what happens?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it's a major setback for the case, perhaps a permanent setback for the case.

So here's what happens. Because Fani Willis is the district attorney, her entire office would be disqualified. If a normal prosecutor, a lower-level one, like I was, gets disqualified, you just plug in the next person down the hall. But she's the boss, so her whole office would be disqualified.

Then the case goes over to this independent prosecutor council that Nick just referenced, and what they do from then on is highly unknown. Just as one point of reference, Wolf. There was a point in 2022 during the investigation of this case where Fani Willis was disqualified.

She subpoenaed somebody and then attended a fund-raiser for that person's political opponent. And the judge there disqualified her from that narrow portion of the case. That portion of the case is still sitting with this independent council. Here we are nearly two years later.

So, if she gets disqualified, it will be an enormous blow to this case.

BLITZER: Paula, if she remains on the case, will the optics still be there, and potentially could that benefit the defense, namely Trump?

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Oh, yes, even if she's not disqualified, plenty for the defense team to work on, because this is not just about the substance of these charges. This is also about optics, about trust in the justice system.

And you can bet that Trump and his attorneys would take every opportunity to remind everyone about this romantic relationship, about the hundreds of thousands of dollars Nathan Wade was paid.

Now, intelligent minds can disagree about if that is the market rate. But to the average American who is gobsmacked by the price of groceries right now, this has a real ick factor, and that's very effective for Trump as he wants to undermine credibility of the justice system and also the prosecutions against him.

BLITZER: And the average American could be on a jury down the road as well.

REID: Yes.

BLITZER: So we will be watching that.

It's if -- I guess no matter what happens, appeals are likely, and this could drag on and on and on. And we know, the Trump legal defense team, their whole thrust has been to delay, delay, delay.

HONIG: Yes, and this will play right into that. If Fani Willis is disqualified, she will have the chance to appeal. Her office can go to a Court of Appeals, say the judge, Judge McAfee, got it wrong.

But that's a really tough argument to make on appeal. And here's why. We -- I believe that Judge McAfee's ruling will be based heavily on his determinations about credibility. I believe this witness, I did not believe that witness. And those kind of determinations are uniquely set aside under the law for the trial judge.

That's the kind of thing that courts of appeals will not reverse him on. Now, if Fani Willis is left on the case, if she's not disqualified, the defendants, Trump and Mike Roman and the others, will probably get to appeal, but probably not now. They would probably have to wait until after the trial, which could be way, way, way down the road.

BLITZER: Yes, this is going to go on and on and on, it looks like.

Kristen, I know you have been doing a lot of reporting on all of this. And a source is telling CNN, as you well know, that the House Republicans, they're convening right now off campus, off Capitol Hill, for this little session. They invited Trump to come, but he decided not to attend this Republican retreat, this congressional retreat for Republicans, but instead attend these legal matters.

What do you think?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right.

So, first of all, Donald Trump doesn't really go to these kind of big group grope events. That's not really his thing. He does his own rallies, and then he has people visit him at Mar-a-Lago and court him at dinner. So he doesn't usually go to a big conference or convention, even if he is the star of that, in and out.

So that's not that surprising. But when it comes to today and him being in court, we are told that he wants to participate in his defense. One, he wants to see what exactly everyone is saying. You know Donald Trump. He wants to have all the details.

He also wants to court the judge to show that he is a willing participant in his own defense. And that's what you're going to see, not just here, but you're actually going to see that in New York as well. He has told his team -- now, obviously, that's different. He has to be there.

[11:10:03]

But there are some procedural days. He has told his team he wants to be there for every single day in New York because he wants to court the jury -- court the judge to show that he is a willing participant in his own defense.

BLITZER: I want to get to the classified documents case, Paula, while I have you.

The arguments that Trump's lawyers are making, as president of the United States or even as a former president of the United States, he could declassify documents, he could take classified documents with him, it was his right.

REID: Well, he's argued that these were his personal records, and that's just not true. He points to the Presidential Records Act, saying, look, these were mine to keep. And we know that is not true.

The Presidential Records Act does not allow you to take classified information back home with you. We also know he's on tape acknowledging the fact that he can't declassify things once he's out of the White House. And some of these documents should not have been in his possession. But the merits of the argument are secondary to the fact that, even

filing this, even having these arguments helps to push the case back a few days, a few weeks, which is why what we're really watching today is if the judge, Judge Aileen Cannon, gives any indication of how far back she's going to push this case.

It's penciled in for May 19. She's indicated that she will push it back. She thinks July is unreasonable, so August at the earliest. And, look, if he can get it pushed back to August, try again to get it pushed back even further, that's really the crux of their strategy.

BLITZER: Interesting.

Elie, as you know, CNN has spoke exclusively to a central witness in the classified documents case. The witness was previously known as Trump Employee No. 5. I want you to listen to this exchange that he had. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST: You noticed that he had boxes?

BRIAN BUTLER, FORMER MAR-A-LAGO EMPLOYEE: Oh, yes, they were the boxes that were in the indictment, the white banker's boxes? That's what I remember loading.

COLLINS: And did you have any time -- any idea at the time that there was potentially U.S. national security secrets in those boxes?

BUTLER: No clue. No -- I had no clue.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: So, Elie, how can this impact the case against Trump right now?

HONIG: Well, this individual, Mr. Butler, is going to be a crucial prosecution witness.

You can see that just in Kaitlan's interview of him. This is what prosecutors want in a witness. You want someone who's inside. This man was inside Mar-a-Lago. He was there when boxes were being packed and moved around. He does not appear to have any sort of credibility problem towards Trump.

He doesn't -- in contrast, when you see Michael Cohen, Michael Cohen makes no secret of the fact that he despises Trump. He talks about it all day long. This Mr. Butler seems like he's, if anything, loyal to Trump and sort of bothered by the fact that he's going to be a witness. That happens, but that makes for a more powerful witness in court.

So, I think Mr. Butler, I think Kaitlan gave us a real -- a good preview of what his testimony is going to be like in court.

BLITZER: Yes, Trump Employee No. 5. HONIG: No. 5.

BLITZER: I like his real name better...

HONIG: Mr. Butler, yes.

(LAUGHTER)

BLITZER: ... than Trump Employee No. 5.

Kristen, on the hush money case in New York, as you know, you have been watching that very closely as well, it's been delayed. I mean, the Trump lawyers want it delayed, arguing that the Supreme Court is considering Trump's immunity as a president of the United States presidential immunity.

Give us an update on that.

HOLMES: Well, I think we have to remember is that Donald Trump's lawyers are exhausting every single avenue that they possibly can to delay all of these cases as long as they can.

I mean, the ultimate goal here was to push every single case past the November election, with the hopes that Donald Trump would win and then get these various cases dismissed. If you are talking about New York in general, they're not banking on any kind of delay.

They believe this is going to happen. They are planning his entire schedule around it happening.

They are looking at how they are going to be on the campaign trail and also in the courtroom, because, as I have said, Donald Trump, even on the days he doesn't have to be there, procedural days, jury selection, wants to be in the courthouse.

We know Wednesdays and Saturdays are two days that he's not going to have to be in court. Likely, those are the days you're going to see him on the campaign trail. They're planning for this trial to start at the end of the month. Obviously, if something were to happen that was shocking to them, they would be thrilled if it was delayed, but that is not something that they appear to be banking on at all.

BLITZER: Interesting. All right, we will see what happens on Wednesdays and Saturdays, as he's out the campaign trail. We will watch that as well.

Guys, thank you very, very much.

Still ahead: The Senate majority leader, Chuck Schumer, is now calling for new elections in Israel. He says the prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, has lost his way.

Plus, Vice President Kamala Harris is set to make history today. No sitting vice president has ever toured an abortion-providing center until now. What does that tell us about the campaign? That's coming up. And SpaceX loses its starship after an impressive launch. Why the company still claims today was a success. We will update you on this.

Stay with us. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:19:22]

BLITZER: This morning up on Capitol Hill, the Senate majority leader, Chuck Schumer, the highest-ranking Jewish official in American history, taking to the Senate floor to deliver a scathing critique of the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, and his government, and issuing a call, a specific call, for new elections in Israel.

Let's go to CNN's chief congressional correspondent, Manu Raju. He's up on Capitol Hill.

Very significant developments, Manu.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's

right. Because Chuck Schumer, in fact, has been an Israel hawk for much of his career, he has actually aligned himself with a lot of the things that Netanyahu has done. Remember, back in the Barack Obama era, he voted against the Iran nuclear deal that Benjamin Netanyahu was lobbying furiously against.

[11:20:10]

All of this, though, comes as there's been a growing concern, particularly within the Democratic Party, about how this war is being waged in Israel and calls for changes in the Israeli government. And that's exactly what Chuck Schumer did on the Senate floor just moments ago, calling for new elections and suggesting that Benjamin Netanyahu is an obstacle to peace.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): That Israelis need to take stock of the situation and ask, must we change course?

At this critical juncture, I believe a new election is the only way to allow for a healthy and open decision-making process about the future of Israel, at a time when so many Israelis have lost their confidence in the vision and direction of their government.

I also believe a majority of the Israeli public will recognize the need for change, and I believe that holding a new election once the war starts to wind down would give Israelis an opportunity to express their vision for the postwar future.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: And, Wolf, this is already generating a furious pushback from Republicans, including the top Republican, Mitch McConnell, who went to the Senate floor moments afterwards to blast the Senate majority leader, Chuck Schumer's call for new elections.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): The removal of the democratically elected leader of Israel, this is unprecedented. We should not treat fellow democracies this way at all.

Things that upset left-wing activists are not a prime minister's policies. They're Israel's policies. Make no mistake, the Democratic Party doesn't have an anti-Bibi problem. It has an anti-Israel problem.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: And, of course, this comes at a critical time on Capitol Hill as well, as aid to Israel is tied up in the larger foreign aid debate on Capitol Hill, along with aid to Ukraine.

And many Democrats either are -- want new conditions on that aid to Israel or simply say there should not be any given to the Netanyahu government. So, Wolf, so many things are riding on how members of the Senate leadership in particular view what's happening in Israel.

And when you heard from the Senate majority there, very significant, with implications for Israel aid as well -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes, very significant, indeed.

Manu Raju up on Capitol Hill, thank you very much.

I want to turn to the presidential race here in the United States. President Biden will campaign in the key battleground state of Michigan today. It's his first visit there since a protest vote in the Democratic primary saw more than 100,000 people in Michigan select uncommitted, largely over President Biden's handling of Israel's war against Hamas.

CNN's chief national affairs correspondent, Jeff Zeleny, is joining us now from Milwaukee, where the president held a campaign event yesterday.

Jeff, President Biden faced another protest last night. Are they expecting more today in Michigan?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the president is beginning his day here in Milwaukee and then making his way to Michigan, as you said, but that speech from Majority Leader Chuck Schumer certainly is also going to resonate on the campaign trail as well.

The question is, will that be enough to sort of assuage the concerns of some demonstrators? The early answer is probably no. They have been calling for a cease-fire. They are calling for a complete change in U.S. administration policy.

But as the president heads to Michigan today, he's going to Saginaw, Michigan. That is north of Detroit, north of the Dearborn area. But, certainly, this is still an issue that is playing out across key battleground states and indeed the country as well on college campuses and elsewhere.

This is a central political concern for this White House, of course, a policy challenge as well. But the president did not have his speech interrupted yesterday by protesters, as he has before. It was a fairly small speech, but there were many protesters here on the ground in Wisconsin.

Wolf, it's just making clear, as we are going forward toward the general election campaign, this is going to be a soundtrack of this campaign. This is going to be part of the campaign, something the president has to deal with. So, clearly, the speech by Senator Schumer is an attempt to distance Democrats from the Netanyahu government.

We will see if that is enough for some Democratic voters here on the campaign trail, Wolf.

BLITZER: At the same time, Jeff, the vice president, Kamala Harris, is also hitting the campaign trail today and she's set to make what is widely seen as a truly historic visit. Tell us about that.

[11:25:03]

ZELENY: She's traveling to Minnesota today, but what's significant about this, Wolf, is, she will be visiting a Planned Parenthood abortion clinic that provides abortion services.

And this is just the latest in a stop that she has really made the central part of her campaign, piece of this reelection campaign, putting abortion rights and abortion freedom and reproductive freedom at the center of the campaign.

Of course, this comes in the wake of the Supreme Court decision to overturn Roe v. Wade. She's been campaigning across the country on this. And this is something that, as a political matter, has been a strength for Democrats, so certainly the vice president going there to Minnesota to visit that clinic today.

Again, Wolf, another example, even though the candidates are the same in this election, the issues are entirely different, or at least significantly different, than 2020 -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes, there's no doubt abortion rights for women here in the United States will be a big issue in this campaign.

Jeff Zeleny, thank you very much for that report.

Let's discuss this and more with CNN's senior political analyst and senior editor over at "The Atlantic" Ron Brownstein and CNN political analyst and Washington bureau chief for "The Boston Globe" Jackie Kucinich.

Jackie, Kamala Harris planning -- senior White House officials are planning to meet with Arab and Muslim leaders in Chicago today. Give us a sense of what's going on.

JACKIE KUCINICH, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: In Chicago.

Wolf, I don't even want to pretend that I am up to speed on that, because it's such an important issue. Perhaps Ron knows a little bit more about that than I do.

BLITZER: Well, let me get Ron on this, because there's concern among a lot of Democrats that the president's support for Israel and providing more weapons to Israel during this war against Hamas and Gaza is undermining, politically undermining President Biden's chances of getting reelected.

And so, clearly, there's an effort now to try to go after Arab American and Muslim American leaders and win their support.

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, look, it's a complex political calculus for Biden, more complex than the critics make out, because, as you know, polling still shows clearly that most Americans support Israel, even though opinion is much more divided among Democrats.

I think the distinction that he's increasingly making, and Schumer is kind of the pilot this year, is between support for Israel and support for the Netanyahu government. Netanyahu has openly scorned almost everything Biden has asked him to do, particularly in envisioning the postwar reality in Gaza.

And that seems to be part of his electoral strategy to show that he will stand up to the U.S. and push back against the U.S. And, of course, Netanyahu, as I have often said, has been identified with one political party over the past 30 years more than I think any foreign leader with either party, has regularly clashed with Democratic presidents and worked to support Republican interests.

So, to some extent, when Schumer went out and made that speech today, my first reaction was, what took so long? I mean, Biden's hugging- Netanyahu strategy clearly has not delivered on a policy basis, much less on a political basis. And I do think that this is the direction that it's going to go to try to thread this needle of maintaining continued support for Israel, but increasing criticism of the way the Netanyahu government is prosecuting this war, in particular, planning for the aftermath.

BLITZER: Yes, there's real tension there right now.

Jackie, another sensitive issue...

KUCINICH: Right.

BLITZER: ... what do you make of Kamala Harris' decision to go to this Planned Parenthood clinic today? Abortion rights for women clearly emerging as a huge issue.

KUCINICH: I mean, Kamala Harris has been on this campaign for months now to -- making reproductive rights really her central issue of this campaign.

And Democrats writ large believe that abortion rights are going to be -- in some places, they're actually going to be on the ballot, but more broadly are going to be on the ballot in 2024. And we have seen, in the midterms and in -- when abortion is on the ballot, voters have tended to vote with Democrats.

And when it is on the ballot, it has -- these initiatives have been 100 percent successful.

BLITZER: Yes, interesting point.

Ron, as you probably know, earlier today, Trump backtracked on some recent comments saying he quote -- and I'm quoting him now -- "would never do anything that would jeopardize or hurt Social Security or Medicare" -- end quote.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

Earlier this week, he suggested he was open to cuts during an interview with CNBC. So what's happening here?

BROWNSTEIN: Well, I think that the comments on CNBC were the misstep, in that Trump from the beginning has recognized that, in a Republican coalition that's increasingly dependent on older white voters, cutting Social Security and Medicare, as the Paul Ryan era Republican House wanted to do, particularly voucherizing Medicare, was a nonstarter.

And he's been consistently opposed to it. But those -- that language from Monday does play into an argument that Biden wants to make, as I wrote this week on CNN.com.