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CNN INTERNATIONAL: Critical Hearing In Trump Documents Case Wraps For The Day; Judge To Rule By End Of Day Tomorrow On D.A. Willis Disqualification; Schumer Criticizes Netanyahu, Calls For New Israeli Election; Manhattan D.A. Not Opposed To Delaying Trump Trial For 30 Days; Biden Campaigns In Midwest To Retain "Blue Wall"; U.S. Prepares For Potential Influx of Migrants From Haiti; SpaceX Calls Launch A Success Despite Losing Starship. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired March 14, 2024 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:35]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: It is 7:00 p.m. in London, 9:00 p.m. in Tel Aviv, 3:00 a.m. in Beijing, 3:00 p.m. here in New York. I'm Jim Sciutto. Thanks so much for joining me today on CNN NEWSROOM.

And let's get right to the news.

Former President Donald Trump has just left court in Florida, his first courtroom appearance since officially clinching the Republican presidential nomination. He was there witnessing his attorneys' effort to get the charges dismissed in his classified documents case. That is his alleged mishandling of classified documents.

Meanwhile, in Fulton County, Georgia, we expect a ruling by end of day tomorrow at the latest on whether D.A. Fani Willis will be disqualified from prosecuting Trump in the election subversion case there.

Following it all is CNN's Evan Perez.

Evan, let's begin on the hearing that Trump attended today in Florida. The judge there had some tough questions it seemed for both sides.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, she did, Jim. Look, one of the first things she tackled was this idea that the Trump team is trying to do, is asking her to do, which is to essentially invalidate the law that governs all of this. And she said that it would be an extraordinary step to essentially invalidate the law or two into to dismiss this indictment. I'll read you just a part of this exchange as she had with one of the Trump's lawyers.

Judge Cannon says, you understand, of course, that finding a statue unconstitutionally vague is an extraordinary step. Emil Bove, one of the Trump lawyers says, I understand. I understand that is significant, but it is warranted here. That's one of the parts of this argument that went on pretty much all day.

And one of the things that the Trump team is asking for was essentially saying that the Presidential Records Act is vague in the way it governs the handling of classified material. The government, of course, says it's not vague at all. And that Trump understood that the documents he was holding onto, including when he was sharing it, and sharing some of that information with -- with writers that he met with at Bedminster, his golf club in New Jersey, that he understood those documents were national security secrets. They were things having to do with nuclear -- nuclear weapons and the capabilities of the United States in case it ever came under attack. Those are the kinds of sensitive documents that are at play here.

And the government says, Trump understood that because he even made reference to that in that infamous tape where he says, I can't share this with you because it's still classified.

So that is where they ran into some trouble there with the judge. She said in the end, that some of the arguments that the Trump team is making should be more appropriate for them to present to a jury and for a jury to decide whether Trump understood what these documents are about.

SCIUTTO: Notable there, and with Trump in the courtroom and a judge that he appointed.

All right. The other case we're watching in Fulton County, Georgia, this a question for the judge there, not about the defendant, but about the prosecutors, about whether the D.A. Fani Willis will be disqualified by tomorrow. Any updates as to where this stands?

PEREZ: No. Look, and we're still on hold here because we still have a couple more hours before the courthouse closes. And at that point, if it doesn't come, then, of course, all our eyes are on the court for tomorrow. The judge, the Judge McAfee has made clear that he has set himself a deadline and that deadline would be tomorrow, Jim, and from his comments that he made in an interview last week, it's clear that he has been wrestling with this.

He knows the import of this -- of this decision. He also knows that this is an important thing obviously for this case. It doesn't mean that the case will be dismissed if he disqualifies Fani Willis. But, of course, it makes it a lot more difficult.

SCIUTTO: No question.

All right. That's the watch for pretty much every day when it comes to the styles.

PEREZ: Yeah, absolutely. Evan Perez in Washington, thanks so much.

Joining us now, CNN national correspondent Kristen Holmes. She's been covering Trump and his 2024 campaign.

Kristen, as we know, Trump chooses to show up oftentimes at these court hearings, he treats them to some degree in a statement as campaign events. Tell us about his appearance today and any reaction to the judge's questioning?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, today is actually quite different than what we seen in the past. These Fort Pierce hearings have been really under the radar in terms of Donald Trump.

[15:05:04]

What we've seen in the past is Donald Trump going to every possible microphone, camera that he could, making statements -- arranging to have remarks either at Trump Tower in New York, at Mar-a-Lago for various events.

This is really Donald Trump incognito almost. He is going -- he's never seen by camera. There are no cameras in the courtroom.

He's not doing anything at Mar-a-Lago and I'm told that this is because Donald Trump wants to show that he wants to be part of the defense. One, he does actually want to be part of his own defense. Ive told that he's told people at Mar-a-Lago, I need to defend my name.

But the other part of this is he wants to show the judge that he's a willing participant in his own defense. Now we know that from our friends in the courtroom, our colleagues in the courtroom that Donald Trump has been leaning back in his chair over various stories, crossing his arms -- clearly, not a welcoming gesture, welcoming body language as the judge has been skeptical, are critical of his lawyers.

But again, this is a choice for him to be there. He often says he could be campaigning, could be out on the trail, but instead he stuck in a courtroom, he's chosen this case to be stuck in the courtroom.

The other part of this that I want to note is that we should expect to see him more in a courtroom later this month when he is forced to sit through those trials in New York because as a criminal case is his team now working on that, how they're going to navigate that with the campaign trail?

SCIUTTO: Yes. Sometimes, it's his choice. Sometimes it's not as choice.

HOLMES: Yeah.

SCIUTTO: Kristen, do stay with me.

I do want to bring into former federal prosecutors, Amy Lee Copeland and Renato Mariotti.

Good to have you both here. Always appreciate your insight.

First, Amy, if I could begin with you, Trump's team arguing the Presidential Records Act is too vague. And the Trump, by the way, he declassified these documents when he took them from the White House, in effect.

Judge Cannon, even seem skeptical. Is there any merit to those arguments?

AMY LEE COPELAND,CRIMINAL DEFENSE AND APPELLATE ATTORNEY: There isn't, Jim, and the fact that Judge Cannon even seem skeptical should tell you a lot. Trump's team has taken the position that he has and reviewable discretion to declassify documents on his own motor. But when you look at what he's been charged with, the Espionage Act, it just says that he has willfully -- the allegation he's willfully failed to return documents to the right people.

So one of the things that the hearing touched on was just how unprecedented his actions have been and the attempts to get these documents back. There were 15 boxes return voluntarily. There were a few more documents that trickled and after a grand jury subpoena, and then finally, there was a search warrant executed at Mar-a-Lago, and that's what revealed the photographs of document boxes in a ballroom and in a bathroom that are in the indictment.

SCIUTTO: No question. Well, we also have the unusual evidence here and that we have the president speaking about this document, these documents. CNN obtained audio recordings from a meeting at Bedminster in 2021 where he discusses and has in his possession documents he did not declassify.

I want to listen to part of that recording and get your thoughts, Renato.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT & 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: See as president I could have declassified it.

STAFFER: Yeah.

(LAUGHTER)

TRUMP: Now I can't, you know, but this is still a secret.

STAFFER: Yeah.

(LAUGHTER)

STAFFER: Now we have a problem.

TRUMP: Isn't that interesting?

STAFFER: Yeah.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Isn't that interesting? The prosecutors play that audio in court today. How much did that undermine the legal argument his team was making today?

RENATO MARIOTTI, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: I mean, it's absolutely brutal. It is really the best sort of evidence you could imagine for the ar -- for the argument that prosecutors are going to make that he did not declassify the documents, right? I mean, he said so himself.

I really think that essentially with Trumps argument amounts to is that the Presidential Records Act invalidates our laws relating to classified information and national security information with regard to the president, because essentially they're saying you can just say this is a personal record and bring whatever you want to your ballroom, your bathroom or your pool room at a resort.

And it's just -- it's a very, very uphill argument because these aren't his diaries. These aren't his personal writings. These are nuclear secrets and attack plans and all sorts of things like that. Very, very challenging argument, and if it wasn't in front of Judge Cannon, I don't really think we'd be -- we'd be -- that there's any real substantial chance (AUDIO GAP).

SCIUTTO: I mean, yeah, it invests the president with really enormous powers beyond his or her time in office. I mean, that seems to be something that even the judge -- the judge was skeptical of.

Kristen, you're not a lawyer, but you cover the Trump team very closely, including all his trial. Is it safe to say that part of the team Trump's strategy is to delay these trials as much as possible, right? And the part of -- part of -- part of the arguments here are just to do just that?

HOLMES: Yeah, absolutely. I don't think when you're talking to these layers, remember some of these leaves are very good lawyers and Trump's attorneys. It's not just these kind of the slapstick lawyers we had seen in the past.

[15:00:01]

They are trying to exhaust every avenue as a lawyer does to try and delay these trials as long as possible. I mean, the goal had been to delay every single trial past the November election with the hopes that Donald Trump would get elected and then could dismiss all of these cases. This is just another tactic there.

When you're talking to these lawyers, we were talking to his legal advisors, many of them don't believe these arguments are actually going to go anywhere. But this is another attempt to delay this trial.

The other thing that we have seen, you talk about the presidential immunity. That is the same exact kind of language that I'm hearing when they talk about the presidential immunity argument that we're hearing here. Do they think that this is actually going to go anywhere that they're going to win?

No, they're happy that they get to present this in front of the Supreme Court and they're happy that this is delaying those trials even further. That is really where the focus is on these arguments.

SCIUTTO: Yeah. Special counsel Jack Smith was even making the case. He's like the reason the argument is so outlandish is in part to just lengthen the process here.

Amy Lee Copeland my colleague, CNN's Kaitlan Collins, she recently spoke to former Trump employee Brian Butler -- I believe he's witness number five -- about how documents were moved at Mar-a-Lago, and he says that he unknowingly helped Trump's co-defendant, Walt Nauta, move boxes from Mar-a-Lago. Where? Onto Trump's plane, the same day Trumps team met with the DOJ.

I want to listen to what he said and asked you how you think this factors in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIAN BULTER, "TRUMP EMPLOYEE 5": I had loaded a bunch of the family luggage into a minivan and I was just going to drive it to the plane, loaded up and that's it. But during the -- us getting luggage, Walt asked, hey, I need a minivan. Sure. Go ahead.

And then he left and I was -- I didn't think anything of it. It was a little odd the way he asked me. I mean, it's stood out now after all this.

But him and Carlos were gone at that time? I didn't know because typically he wouldn't go get a vehicle, drive himself in, get luggage. So --

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST, "THE SOURCE": So it was unusual for him to make that ask of you that day?

BUTLER: It seemed odd to me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Trump has said they weren't hiding anything, his words. He says a lot of things, Amy Lee Copeland. How important will that testimony be at this trial to undermine Trump's claims?

COPELAND: You know, that's going to be another nail in the coffin, Jim, just the fact that you've got a guy who has no dog in the fight. He has been called in to get a minivan to take boxes to a plane. He is just there to, you know, he's not going to curry favor with anybody by telling the truth, and that is not going to serve the former president well at all. It's going to be very hard for him to come pass that testimony.

SCIUTTO: Renato, before we go, we have this pending decision from the Fulton County judge in the Fulton County case about disqualifying D.A. Wilson. I don't want to put you on the spot to predict what will happen. But based on what you heard in the court, did the defense lawyers successfully make the case that she should be disqualified?

MARIOTTI: Great question, Jim. You know, the legal standard is very high and going into those hearings, my inclination was that the standard was so high, they essentially have to show when actual conflict of interests that could disadvantage the defendant can make it so that there'll be an unfairness or due process issues to that defendant.

I thought that was very unlikely that they would meet that standard. But the fact that the judge is so interested in the details of what was going on in that relationship really suggests that the judge thinks is a much closer called on. I thought it would be. And so I think all bets are off and we don't really know what the judge is going to do tomorrow.

SCIUTTO: Wow, remarkable. Okay. Well, I guess we'll have to watch closely, even more closely than we were.

Renato Mariotti, Amy Lee Copeland, Kristen Holmes, thanks so much, all of you.

Coming up, Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer may -- have just made the White House is relationship with Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu even more complicated to say the least. We'll take a look, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:16:07]

SCIUTTO: Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer just took to the Senate floor and called for new elections in Israel after criticizing the current Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY), MAJORITY LEADER: As a lifelong supporter of Israel, it has become clear to me the Netanyahu coalition no longer fits the needs of Israel after October 7th. I have known Prime Minister Netanyahu for a very long time. While we have vehemently disagreed on many occasions, I believe in his heart, he has his highest priority is as is the security of Israel.

However, I also believe Prime Minister Netanyahu has lost his way by allowing his political survival to take the precedence over the best interests of Israel.

Five months into this conflict, it is clear that Israelis need to take stock of the situation and ask, must we change course? At this critical juncture, I believe a new election is the only way to allow for a healthy and open decision-making process about the future of Israel, at a time when so many Israelis have lost their confidence in the vision and direction of their government.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Strong words.

Schumer is not only the highest ranking U.S. lawmaker to call for new elections in Israel. He is also the highest ranking Jewish elected official in the U.S. government.

CNN's chief congressional correspondent, Manu Raju, he's live on Capitol Hill.

Manu, Schumer's getting backlash from Republicans for his comments. I wonder, do we know what motivated them at this moment in time?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: There's just been a lot of unrest among Democrats, many in his own caucus about the way that this war has been waged and frustration that Netanyahu has not done more than it helped deliver humanitarian aid to Palestinians in Gaza.

And that is something that Schumer's been hearing for some time, but his comments were significant. Not only is he the highest ranking Jewish official ever, but he's also the first Jewish majority leader, and someone who is aligned it with Israel, on many issues in the past, a Israel hawk of sorts, even opposing the Iran nuclear deal back in the Obama administration.

But this time, he made clear he wants Netanyahu out, sees him as an obstacle to peace. And the backlash has been severe from the Republican side, even as a lot of Democrats, even ones who align with Schumer on this issue politically, believed that he made the right call.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Do you think Netanyahu is an obstacle to peace?

SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): I think the current prime minister has to perhaps we think some of his approaches, especially on humanitarian aid, which I think has to be done more robustly than he has incurred so far. I think there are reasons that Israelis might want a different leader and I think Senator Schumer has raised some of those reasons very powerfully and forcibly.

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): It is grotesque and hypocritical for Americans who hyperventilate about foreign interference in our own democracy to call for the removal of a democratically elected leader of Israel. This is unprecedented. We should not treat fellow democracies this way at all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Our thanks to Manu Raju on Capitol Hill.

Joining me now to discuss, former State Department Middle East negotiator, senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment, Aaron David Miller.

Sir, good to have you on.

AARON DAVID MILLER, FORMER STATE DEPARTMENT MIDDLE EAST NEGOTIATOR: Great to be you, Jim.

SCIUTTO: First of all, your view because you've been around Washington a long time. Is this actually that far out of bounds here?

[15:20:00]

And I do remember Netanyahu himself taking a Republican invitation to address the Congress, which was seen as making his preferences clear prior to a U.S. election. Is it unprecedented and out of bounds for Chuck Schumer, who's been a long time supporter of Israel to make this statement at this time?

MILLER: You know, I think it undermines the myth, Jim, that we don't intervene in Israeli politics, and they don't intervene in ours, which is clearly not true. I was a part of two administrations.

Bush 41 and James Baker, when that administration intentionally held housing loan guarantees because of then Yitzhak Shamir settlement policy and that contributed to the fall of the Shamir government in June of 1992 to the late Prime Minister Rabin. And then Clinton interceded directly during the 1996 selections with none other than Benjamin Netanyahu was running again, Shimon Peres.

In that case, it may have backfired because Netanyahu became prime minister. That's his first bite at the so-called prime ministerial apple.

So it is certainly not impressive. I will say though it is remarkable, stunning to me, that it my 27 years of being in government and studying the issue for another 30, I don't think there is an example, certainly have the Senate majority leader calling for the defeat, not just new elections, the defeat of the current prime minister of Israel and inviting the administration to basically exercise its leverage as long as -- I think that's exactly the word Schumer used -- as long as this government remains in power.

And it's paradoxical because usually it's Congress that has Israel's back and the administration that's risk averse. Here, you have a role reversal. Here, the administration is reluctant to impose any costs or consequence. President of United States could never give that speech.

SCIUTTO: So let me ask you, because to your point and the times, you referred to Biden's Israel policy as the "I'm unhappy with Israel but won't do much about it" policy. I mean, we have seen critical words from Biden's mouth regarding Israel, regarding the provision of humanitarian aid, regarding the deaths of civilians there.

But what would the U.S. need to do to put real pressure on Israel? What's missing?

MILLER: Well, the president, the administration has had three levers available since the inception of the crisis. Number one, slow walk, restrict condition or end a military assistance to Israel, particularly munitions deliveries. That's number one.

Number two, change our voting posture in New York. Abstaining or voting for U.N. Security Council resolution, or U.N. General Assembly resolution.

And number three, the nuclear option. Forget negotiating with Hamas and Israel over hostages or prisoners, come out where the international community wants the administration of be. Unconditional ceasefire, period, then we'll talk about release the hostages.

The president has not chosen, frankly, to do any of those things. Frankly, Jim, I doubt if he will, in part, it says nature, it's his emotional support for Israel part. It's the practical reality, Jim, that if the president is to achieve his goal, which is to de-escalate the situation in Gaza and change the pictures --

SCIUTTO: Right.

MILLER: -- he can't do it without the act of cooperation for better, for worse of the most right-wing extremist government and history of the state of Israel.

(CROSSTALK)

SCIUTTO: And let me ask you, because what you described --

MILLER: Yeah.

SCIUTTO: -- there, really no U.S. president has done -- that I -- I mean, you know better than me that I can remember. I mean, you mentioned, for instance, Security Council resolution, the Obama administration did that, but I believe after it was already on its way out, right? I mean, from a political perspective it's hard for U.S. president to do that.

I'm not -- I'm not taking issue with your argument here, but has any -- can you give us an example of a stand like that? A U.S. leader, Democrat or Republican, saying specifically, no more military aid?

MILLER: No, I can give you examples, particularly during the Reagan administration, one of the most pro-Israeli president in the history of the U.S. is really a relationship in which Reagan delayed delivery of sophisticated fighter aircraft, both in the wake of Israel's bombing that occurs in Beirut, and when Israel extended administrative law over the Golan Heights.

You'd have to go back to Eisenhower, literally, in the Suez crisis, when Eisenhower threatened to sanction the government of Israel unless it withdrew from the Sinai.

SCIUTTO: Yeah.

MILLER: And with the British and the French plot, they did withdraw from Sinai.

So I don't think it's in the president's constitution, and frankly, I wouldn't recommend that he suspend military assistance to Israel. You've got Israel and Hezbollah, you have that front in the north. So I -- the president's in a bind, he really is.

[15:25:04]

And I'm not sure he can get out that.

SCIUTTO: You also wrote that Biden needs Netanyahu to agree to a hostage deal and an extended ceasefire with Hamas. It strikes me and I don't have to tell you this, but pretty cynical part of the world there, right, and that you can make a good argument that Hamas is blowing up these negotiations because it perceives despite the deaths of many Gaza civilians that it benefits from Israel being seen as the bad guy, right? MILLER: Yeah.

SCIUTTO: I mean, do you see the ingredients there for an agreement given -- given Netanyahu's intransigence, but also Hamas's handling of this?

MILLER: You know, the real -- the cruel and inconvenient -- inconvenient reality, Jim, is that the only urgency for a deal right now is in the Biden administration.

SCIUTTO: Interesting.

MILLER: Hamas understands the more that U.S. puts on Israel, the better. And Netanyahu frankly has no incentive of exchanging the hostages for a large numbers of Palestinian prisoners, some of which accused or charged of killing Israelis. He doesn't want that.

So, the Biden administration is in a hurry, completely understandable. But you know, in a negotiation, the worst thing you can send your negotiating partners is that you want the deal more than they do.

SCIUTTO: Yeah.

MILLER: Because they upped the ante.

SCIUTTO: Aaron David Miller, a lot of experience to backup those views, we appreciate it,

MILLER: Thanks, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Please do stay with us. We'll be back after a short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

SCIUTTO: We've got breaking news in the Trump hush money criminal trial. The Manhattan district attorney just filed a motion which could mean a delay in the trial, which was supposed to start later this month, a delay of up to 30 days.

CNN's Evan Perez is back with me.

Evan, can you -- can you help us understand this and what exactly is leading or would lead to this delay.

PEREZ: Well, according to this court filing from the district attorney in Manhattan, Jim, the government and the defense have received thousands of pages -- tens of thousands of pages of documents from the federal government, from the Justice Department. If you remember, the Justice Department had investigated these hush money allegations. They had actually looked at it twice under the Trump administration and early in the Biden administration. In both times, they had decided not to prosecute this case, not to bring charges.

So this is now, according to this court filing, the district attorney is asking the court to delay this trial by 30 days.

[15:30:01]

The Trump team had asked for a 90-day delay. What they wanted more than that, they wanted this case to go away completely. But they had asked for at least a 90-day delay because they said they still had to go through tens of thousands of pages, 73,000 pages that they had received under subpoena from the Justice Department, which had all of these records related to its own investigation.

According to this filing, though, the reason why the district attorney is agreeing to at least a 30-day delay, they say it doesn't deserve more than that, is that just recently -- just in the last, yesterday afternoon, according to this, they received about 31,000 pages of records. And so, according to them, they say that of all of these thousands of pages, they've only identified about 172 pages that had witness statements and the things that really are relevant to this case. They say not all of these thousands of pages are really relevant to this investigation or to this prosecution.

And so, they're asking for just -- for the judge to agree to a 30-day pause, or a 30-day delay, not the full 90 days that Trump team is asking for. So we don't know what this judge will do, but obviously, Jim, as, you know, you know, for the defense attorneys, the idea of having the right to go through all of the records, to make sure that they are prepared for trial is one of the central parts of our judicial system.

And so, judges tend to give a lot of deference to the defense to make sure that they can go through the number of documents, number of records, to adequately prepare for the defense because they know this could become an appeals issue. So --

SCIUTTO: Yeah.

PEREZ: -- obviously, this throws a big wrench in the plans for this trial, which was set as you pointed out, to go to trial at the end of this month.

SCIUTTO: Yeah. They want to cross their T's, dot their I's, so they head off the possibility of an appeal.

Evan Perez, thanks so much.

Back to discuss now, former federal prosecutor Renato Mariotti.

So, Renato, interesting this is the prosecutors, right, who have said okay, up to 30 days is fine. Trumps team had asked for 90 days.

I imagine if the prosecutors are agreeing to that, given there are these documents to review, does that make the judge likely to take that, to go with that delay?

MARIOTTI: Yeah. I think it'd be very challenging for the judge to say I don't care what the prosecutors agreed to. I don't care what you -- even if both sides are telling me at least 30 days, I don't want to give you the 30 days.

I don't see the judge doing that. I think this is a real wrench in the works here, Jim. I don't think anyone expected that the southern district good of New York us attorneys office was going to dump I think its something like 31,000 pages of additional discovery with another set of discovery yet to come, just weeks before trial. Definitely this sort of thing that often results in very lengthy delays, actually think, given the circumstances, a 30-day delay is very, very short given the circumstances.

SCIUTTO: So, 30 days, what would the effect be on the trial schedule as in terms of when it starts, when it finishes wrapped up before the election, or does this present the possibility of even further delays?

MARIOTTI: Well, it certainly, it's certainly brings for the possibility of additional delays. I have to say this is an unusual circumstance and people are going to be asking a lot of questions I suspect in the days to come about exactly why the U.S. attorney's office changed its mind. I mean, if you read the Manhattan D.A.'s filing, they said the U.S. attorney's office previously declined to produce these documents and then had a last-minute change of heart.

But putting that to the side, your question is what -- how is this going to impact the trial date? We all thought, Jim, that were going to go to trial like in matter of days, weeks, right, as be very soon, they're coming up. Now, at least 30-day delay, could be more.

And so, now, you're pushing this into April, May, something in that range where were going to have a trial. You know, it's getting closer to conventions and times where you're getting into the heart of the campaign season, something that I think the judge had wanted to avoid.

SCIUTTO: Just quickly because you raised an issue here that the documents relate to the DOJ's previous investigation of these charges and decision, then not to prosecute it. Did we know that or is that new?

MARIOTTI: I think that that is -- it's known that the DOJ investigated the hush money issue. They prosecuted Michael Cohen for that.

SCIUTTO: Right.

MARIOTTI: Ultimately, Trump was not named or prosecuted. He couldn't have been. He was president of the United States at the time. But nonetheless, the DOJ didn't move forward.

But what's interesting, of course, is that there's such an intertwine, right, between that federal investigation and this state Manhattan investigation of the same sort of factual scenario.

[15:35:02]

So you could have witness statements like there was in a prior batch that Evan mentioned a moment ago. You could have, you know, for example, documents that they have obtained or the notes of interviews or other things that could be used by the defense to try to, you know, cross-examine government witnesses.

SCIUTTO: Well, I imagine we're going to be backward, Renato, because we're going to want to talk about this case and others as we follow the developments.

Thanks so much.

MARIOTTI: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Well, while Trump was in the courtroom today, President Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris, they've been on the campaign trail looking to fortify what used to be called the "blue wall" that delivered him the White House four years ago, though it did not in 2020, did not for Democrats then.

Moments ago, Biden attended a canvas kickoff event with supporters in Saginaw, Michigan, a union heavy swing county he won by just 303 votes in 2020. It's his first visit to the state. It's more than 100,000 voters cast uncommitted ballots and the Democratic primary to protest the president's policy as it relates to the Israel-Gaza war.

Vice President Kamala Harris, she is a neighboring Minnesota for her -- to her focus on the issue of reproductive rights. She made history today as the first sitting VP to visit an abortion provider, touring a Planned Parenthood office in St. Paul, though, we should note, Planned Parenthood also provides a number of health services.

CNN's Kevin Liptak is traveling with the president. He joins me now.

Kevin, president hitting swing states all over the country since the State of the Union a week ago.

Tell us what the focus is in Michigan. Listen, he wants Michigan. It's a big swing state. There are particular voters he asked to appeal to there. So who is he focusing attention on?

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, here in Saginaw County, his focus is really on Black voters. There's a high concentration of them here in this county and it will be important for him to reconstitute that coalition if he is to win reelection and it's particularly important in a state like Michigan where he is seeing other parts of his coalition, as you mentioned, Arab Americans, Muslim Americans support softening. He will really need to gather as much support as he can muster in every other area if he is to win this very essential battleground state.

And Saginaw County is so important. It's one of the rare true bellwethers. It went for -- it voted for the winner of the last four presidential elections and they're only 25 counties in the entire country that can say that.

And so we did see President Biden today talking to his supporters, really trying to oversee the build-out of his campaign infrastructure. And that has been kind of a theme for him as he has hit five battleground states since he delivered that State of the Union Address a week ago today. And the campaign says that they're hiring 300 staffers this month. They're opening 100 offices, Jim.

And I think it's important when we talk to voters here in Saginaw, one of the things they say is they're very focused on the economy, but a lot of them say that they just haven't started tuning into this election yet, and they will start tuning in, coming up, but they really aren't paying that much attention I have to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: In this environment, these attacks against an individual's right to make decisions about their own body are outrageous and in many instances, just plain old, immoral. How dare these elected leaders believed they are in a better position to tell women what they need, to tell women what is in their best interest? We have to be a nation that trust women.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIPTAK: So that was Kamala Harris speaking at the Planned Parenthood in the Twin Cities. Obviously, when were talking about the coalition- building, this key issue of reproductive rights are so essential for Biden and Harris and Democrats as they look a together women voters ahead of November's election, how -- Kamala Harris has been a key messenger for them on that front, and a lot of ways, she's seen as a more natural messenger than President Biden himself.

And certainly this visit, a dramatic demonstration of their commitment to reproductive rights ahead of the election, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Kevin Liptak, thanks so much.

Joining me now, our political panel. Jackie Kucinich, CNN political analyst, and Leigh Ann Caldwell of "The Washington Post".

Good to have you both on.

Leigh Ann, if I could begin with you. I mean, Biden. It was great -- that graphic that showed Obama and his first election, second election, then Trump. And by just shows like Democrats falling fortunes in that one pivot county in Michigan, which speaks to just how tight Michigan has been in all these races, it strikes me that he needs to focus on several groups in the state of Michigan, Black voters as he was doing today Arab American voters and leaders, and union as well.

[15:40:06]

That's a lot Leigh Ann Caldwell. I mean, does it -- what's his message to them and can he kind of -- I mean, its not just win them, its like when a lot of them back.

LEIGH ANN CALDWELL, EARLY-202 CO-AUTHOR, THE WASHINGTON POST: Absolutely and it is a lot and Michigan has been state that Democrats have been sounding the alarm on for several months now. I speak to a lot of members of Congress up here on the Hill when I'm here day in and day out. And they have been saying that they are seeing the Democratic support in Michigan really crater for President Biden.

And so, of course, this is one of the must win states if he's going to win reelection in 2020, and it's a broad swath of Democratic base voters that he needs to make sure not only doesn't vote for Donald Trump, but turns out to vote for President Biden, and he has a lot of work to do between now and November to make sure that that happens.

SCIUTTO: The issue that has seemed to work for Jackie Kucinich in the state of Michigan is abortion. They had a ballot initiative to try to abortion rights. That helped elect Governor Whitmer -- Whitmer -- as well as a Democratic trifecta there. Whitmer has said she wants the president to speak more on that issue.

By the way, we should look at that. I mean, Whitmer won that blue state of Michigan, I think by close to ten points, right? So when you look at the data, when folks have actually voted, Democrats haven't done badly there of late, granted, that's Whitmer. That's not Biden.

But I wonder, Harris clearly trying to push that message of reproductive rights as she goes to Planned Parenthood today. Is that strategic, right, to have her doing that and not Biden himself?

JACKIE KUCINICH, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Absolutely. I mean, she has been on the campaign trail since last year pushing this issue, in a lot of these blue wall states and beyond. So, but I think you mentioned the ballot initiative there. Everywhere there's been abortion has literally been on the ballot, it has passed. It has a -- has 100 percent success rate, but you can't really say about a lot of ballot initiatives. Of course, they vary a little bit language-wise, but the impact is clear.

In there's -- there could be one in Arizona. There are some other states that are trying to get them on the ballot, and that's going to make a big difference. And I would expect that you'd have the Biden campaign focus it's on those states as well because they know that people turn out for those initiatives, and it's really helped Democrats in a lot of places we've seen.

SCIUTTO: No question.

Well, yesterday in Wisconsin, also a key swing state, Biden hit Trump hard on saying -- this is drop in an interview, there's a lot you can do to make potential cuts to Social Security and Medicare. Have a listen to how Biden hit this point home.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Just this week, Donald Trump said, cuts to Social Security and Medicare are on the table. When asked, have you changed the position, he said, quote, there's a lot we can do in terms of cutting. I won't cut Social Security. I will not cut Medicare.

Instead of cutting Social Security and Medicare to give tax breaks to super-wealthy, I'm going to protect and strengthen Social Security and Medicare to make the wealthy began to pay their fair share. (END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Trump tried to push back. He told Breitbart, I will never do anything that will jeopardize or hurt Social Security or Medicare. But the fact is, there have been Republican proposals on the table, Leigh Ann Caldwell. We had that moment at the State of the Union last year on that issue.

I wonder, is this a vulnerable one for Trump and Republicans?

CALDWELL: This is a perennially a vulnerable issue for Republicans. Democrats, this is an old playbook by Democrats because it works, because there's an editable, some Republican bill proposed in Congress. There's inevitably some Republican who trips up on this issue or does propose cuts to Social Security or Medicare.

And so Democrats always have a lot of ammunition to use around this issue and campaigns. And it works. A large percentage of voters every election are older voters or voters who are approaching old age and are going to rely on these programs.

And so it is a fail-safe issue for Democrats, but one that Republicans keep making this mistake over and over again.

SCIUTTO: Yeah, no question, saying it out loud, right, as we heard the former president do.

Jackie Kucinich, Leigh Ann Caldwell, thanks so much to both.

And still ahead this hour, we are following new developments in Haiti where the airport there could reopen. We're going to speak to the former U.S. special envoy to Haiti about all the challenges it is facing now. That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:46:56]

SCIUTTO: Welcome back.

As the situation in Haiti deteriorates, there is growing concern it could lead to a mass exodus of Haitians to the United States. The Biden administration is now considering a plan to use a center at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba, located about 200 miles from Haiti, separate, we should note, from where terrorist suspects are held in order to process migrants fleeing the violence at home.

CNN's Carlos Suarez is in Miami with more on this.

Carlos, what more do we know about these discussions? How many people -- how will they be handled? Tell us.

CARLOS SUAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, the naval base's proximity to Haiti really makes it easier for the coast guard to stop Haitian migrants and see, and then returned them to Haiti. As you noted, the U.S. government has used the facility to hold and process migrants before.

Now the talk of expanding capacity, I think gets at the security concern here. In recent years, Jim, federal officials in south Florida have had trouble processing these large number of migrants. We're talking about boats with hundreds of people arriving all at once. And that kind of a situation really puts a strain on local law enforcement, which often has to hold migrants until federal officials take a custody.

Now, so far, the U.S. Coast Guard tells me that they haven't seen an increase in the number of Haitian migrants trying to make it to the U.S. Now, as for the security concern on the ground in Haiti, a fire broke out at one of the prisons that was attacked by armed groups last week, and we're told that the country's airports could soon reopen. We're told that repairs in areas that were broken into by gang members last month are almost complete and that 150 Haitian police and military officers are guarding the grounds there -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: Carlos Suarez, just a tragedy unfolding there in Haiti.

Joining me now to discuss, Ambassador Dan Foote. He is the former special -- U.S. special envoy for Haiti.

Thanks so much for joining us this afternoon.

AMBASSADOR DAN FOOTE, FORMER U.S. SPECIAL ENVOY FOR HAITI: Thanks for having me.

SCIUTTO: Let me begin with you. Do you believe that the crisis we're seeing unfold there is going to lead to a second crisis of migrants fleeing Haiti for here in the U.S.?

FOOTE: It likely will if the U.S. and the international community continue down the path, they are on right now, which is to panic and foist another white chosen government on the Haitian people.

SCIUTTO: So what's the -- what is the alternative?

FOOTE: They're asking for self-determination.

SCIUTTO: You're saying there should be a -- a plan developed internally. Do you see -- do you see that possibility?

FOOTE: It's never been done.

Yes. When I was named special envoy, I went down there and over the course of many months, we put a consensus political accord together that by the beginning of 2022, I think was broad enough that the Haitian people would have been much better off with that, and with another U.S. anointed leader like Ariel Henry who just drove the country into the ground there for the past 32 months.

[15:50:04]

SCIUTTO: What about just getting a handle on the violence there? There's been talk of peacekeeping forces, the U.S. -- U.N. estimates now gangs control 80 percent of Haiti's capital. I believe there was a plan for forces from Kenya. How about just getting a handle on the security situation quickly?

FOOTE: That's correct. Well, you've seen one thing and you just made mention of it, the gangs have simmer down. They've come down because Ariel Henry resigned and because they're -- they've sent their message to the international community, don't send another one or your puppets down here.

It's not just the gangs though. It's the entire populations against Henry. You're going to need an intervention of some sort, but an intervention without a stable political foundation and a trustworthy Haitian partner that hasn't been imposed on them. It's not going to work.

You'll have a civil war. The peacekeepers will be fighting the very people you're sending them to protect if they're seen as boosting an illegitimate government.

SCIUTTO: Before we go, if there is a refugee crisis, does Guantanamo Bay makes sense as a kind of an interim space, a processing center?

FOOTE: I mean, we did this once before with the Haitians. Does it make sense? I don't think so. You know what the Haitians are asking. Why don't you just build a cage around our country?

SCIUTTO: Jeez, wow, remarkable sense of -- sense of this. Just a tragedy we're watching unfold.

Ambassador Dan Foote, thanks so much.

And still ahead on CNN NEWSROOM, we have lift off. SpaceX just launched the world's most powerful rocket, reach new heights although eventually was lost says SpaceX. Were going to have an update on exactly what happened just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: Today, Elon Musk's SpaceX launched the world's most powerful rocket successfully, the company says, achieving several intended milestones.

CNN space and defense correspondent Kristin Fisher joins us now.

Kristin, take us through today's launch. What worked and what didn't. I mean, did it meet its goals?

KRISTIN FISHER, CNN SPACE AND DEFENSE CORRESPONDENT: It absolutely met its primary objective, which was for Starship, the biggest most powerful spacecraft ever built to reach orbital velocity or orbital speed. It did that and it flew for about 49 minutes, Jim. And it fed back, streamed back then this incredible live HD footage along the way, thanks to SpaceX's Starlink satellites, which they were able to use to beam back all that footage that we were able to see here.

[15:55:07] So, right there, that is liftoff. You can see all 33 of the Raptor engines on that super heavy booster fired perfectly for the second time. And then a few minutes after lifting off with stage separation, that was also a success, Jim.

But that all happened during the second flight test back in November. From here, that's when things get really interesting. And this is where Starship flew further and faster than its ever flown before. And over the course of the next, you know, 40 minutes or so, it was able to try out a fuel transfer demonstration in space. And then it also was able to come back from space closer to Earth. And it got so close to splashing down in the Indian Ocean, which was its intended target.

Instead, it kind of blew up shortly before that splashdown. But, Jim, you know, a lot of people saying is this a success or failure if it didn't make it all the way to splashdown. Important to note that in order to get your FAA launch license, yeah have to say what the ultimate destination for this spacecraft is, even if you don't think its going to make it there, that's what is required to get the launch license.

This is a success and it's not just SpaceX calling it a success, but NASA, and even SpaceX's is biggest competitor, Blue Origin, also calling it a success because it was able to reach that primary goal of orbital velocity, Jim.

SCIUTTO: And tell us why this launch and this rocket important, right? I mean, this is about going to the moon and beyond. Is it not?

FISHER: This is the rocket that Elon Musk and SpaceX hope will land the first humans on Mars. They want to use it to colonize Mars. But first, it is the rocket the NASA wants to use to return NASA astronauts to the surface of the moon for the first time since the Apollo program and beat China to build a base on the south pole of the moon.

So that's really what's at stake here. There's some national security implications as well.

But that video, Jim, right there, I just got to point it out, I've never seen anything like that. That is the actual plasma heating up those heat shield tiles doing their job there. Just incredible. I can't believe -- I can't believe the camera can survive that.

SCIUTTO: It's pretty cool footage you must check. That's live stream, right? I mean, we've seen large stuff before. You get it later, right, from the Apollo missions. But this is live streamed.

Kristin Fisher, thanks so much.

FISHER: Thanks, Jim.

SCIUTTO: And thanks so much to all of you for joining me today. I'm Jim Sciutto in New York today.

"QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is up next.