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Armed Suspect Who Reportedly Killed Three People And Committed Carjacking In Pennsylvania Now Barricaded In Residence In Trenton, New Jersey; Bucks County, Pennsylvania, District Attorney And Falls Township, Pennsylvania, Police Chief Hold Press Conference On Crimes And Current Situation Of Armed Suspect; Trenton, New Jersey Building Where Armed Suspect Is Barricaded Was Evacuated Of Residents By Law Enforcement; Law Enforcement Experts Discuss Efforts Likely Being Made To Negotiate With Armed Suspect Barricaded In New Jersey Residence. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired March 16, 2024 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:03]
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: And here's a photograph of the suspect, identified as 26-year-old Andre Gordon. He is considered armed and dangerous according to police, and may have an assault rifle. The shootings took place in Falls Township, Pennsylvania, earlier today, Bucks County community, about 30 miles northeast of Philadelphia. And then the hostage situation now ongoing in Trenton, New Jersey.
We want to take you straight to Pennsylvania now, where a press conference is underway for the latest. Let's listen in.
JENNIFER SCHORN, BUCKS COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: -- and his 13 year- old sister, Kara (ph) Gordon, who lived at the residence. There were three other individuals at the residence, including a minor inside the home who were able to hide and avoid being shot by Gordon as he went through the house searching for them.
Following the shootings, at approximately 09:01 a.m. Gordon drove to the unit block of Edgewood Lane, Levittown, where he forcibly broke into a residence after which he shot and killed 25-year-old, with whom he has two children. Following the shooting, he fled the scene. At the time of the shooting, there were four other individuals present inside that home, one of which was injured after being bludgeoned by Gordon with the assault rifle. She was transported to Jefferson campus for her injuries.
At approximately 09:13 a.m., Gordon committed a carjacking at gunpoint of a 44-year-old man from Morrisville at the parking lot of the Dollar General on Bristol Pike and Morrisville. The operator of the vehicle did not suffer any injuries. Gordon is believed to currently be homeless and has ties to the Trenton area. At approximately 11:38 a.m., the Honda CRV that was the carjacking victim's vehicle from Bucks County was located unoccupied and the 100 block of Miller Street in Trenton, New Jersey. At approximately 12:22 p.m., we received information that Gordon is currently barricaded in New Jersey with hostages. He's inside the residence on the 100 block of Phillips Street in Trenton. We are referring all information regarding that aspect of the investigation to the Trenton police department.
At approximately 12:25 p.m. we lifted our shelter in place. I will answer the questions that we're able to answer at this juncture. And I'll turn it over some -- excuse me for one second. I'm going to -- I'm going to turn it over -- that's OK, Joe. I'm going to turn it over to Chief Whitney for a few additional remarks, thanking the resources, the tremendous resources that have been devoted to investigating and preventing further criminal acts from this individual. And then we'll answer questions.
CHIEF NELSON WHITNEY, FALLS TOWNSHIP POLICE: Good afternoon, everyone. So this was an outstanding team effort by the law enforcement community here in Bucks County. In addition to our district attorney's office, we had assistance from the Pennsylvania state police, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, and the Federal Bureau of Investigation. We also had help from all of our surrounding communities that sent representatives to a staging area while this incident was still dynamic and unfolding to investigate reports that were coming in and assist us in securing the three different crime scenes that we had here in Falls Township. So my thanks to everyone who assisted us today. It was an outstanding team effort.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would you mind saying and spelling your name just for the record, please?
SCHORN: Yes, my apologies Jen Schorn, S-c-h-o-r-n, Bucks County district attorney.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And Jen is just J-e-n?
SCHORN: J-e-n. Thank you.
WHITNEY: My name is Nelson Whitney, N-e-l-s-o-n, W-h-i-t-n-e-y. I'm the chief of police for the Falls Township political Department.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you guys had previous contacts with the -- whether false encounter or anywhere in Bucks county are outside?
WHITNEY: We've had minor contacts in the past, but nothing that would indicate anything like this would happen.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The woman who was injured at the Edgewood Lane home, is that her mother, is it a child? Who was injured?
SCHORN: It's the mother of the deceased victim. And -- yes?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is she seriously injured?
SCHORN: We don't believe to be that the injuries are serious. However, there may be serious bodily injury, but we expect that she'll recover from those injuries.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where were the children?
SCHORN: The children were present when the shooting happened.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know anything about the motive?
SCHORN: Obviously, we can't speak to that at this juncture.
(INAUDIBLE)
SCHORN: Yes. Several of the family members at the first residence were successful in being able to hide from the shooter. One of them is a minor who is 14 years old.
(INAUDIBLE)
SCHORN: There were three individuals in the residence who were in hiding.
[14:05:00]
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Could you explain their relationship?
SCHORN: Just generally speaking, they were all family.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The other child was 13 or 14?
SCHORN: Thirteen, excuse me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And so there were three other family members hiding in the first home. In the second home, there were two other family members hiding. Is that correct?
SCHORN: No, not correct. I'm sorry if I misspoke. In the first home, there were three family members hiding. In the other home, there were other family members present. However, there was the deceased victim and then her mother who was injured as a result of an assault. And then obviously minor children were present.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In speaking to the family members, do you know if there's any history of mental illness, outbursts, anything that would indicate?
SCHORN: Nothing that we can speak of at this juncture.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How many weapons do you believe he has? I know the initial report said he may have had multiple long guns?
WHITNEY: We know initially he was armed with a long gun. He may be armed with other weapons. I don't have specific information on that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What type of --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What type of long gun?
WHITNEY: He was armed -- my information is that he was armed with an AR-15 style assault rifle.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you know if has that, at this point, if he legally owned it?
SCHORN: Obviously, this investigation is still pending. We will investigate every aspect of how he can come into possession of these weapons.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I understand that police were pretty close by on the shooting call. Was there any pursuit or interaction that officers had with him following that shooting call?
WHITNEY: There was no pursuit.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Law enforcement has been in touch --
(INAUDIBLE)
WHITNEY: Yes, I'm sorry. I really don't have specifics on the locations of the calls for service or the nature of them at this time. I just know that qualitatively there was nothing that to us indicated that something like this would happen.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you know how long Andre had this gun?
SCHORN: Again, we'll gather that information and report back with updates, but as it relates to this matter, it's obviously ongoing. And so I think at this juncture, any future questions we will certainly be providing more information as we receive it. But I think that is --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Does he have a criminal history?
SCHORN: You know I can't speak to that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is he confirmed to actually be in that residence in Trenton.
SCHORN: That's been confirmed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And is that, I guess his home, but do we know whose home that is? Is it a relative's home?
SCHORN: We understand he has ties to that home and believed to be family ties to that home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And how many residents are currently in there with him?
SCHORN: I can't speak to that at this juncture. Obviously, that's an ongoing situation.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And how long was the shelter-in-place for, do you know approximately how many hours?
SCHORN: It was approximately three hours, I would say.
WHITNEY: About three hours.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And to which towns or townships did that extent? WHITNEY: We put that out just for our community here in Falls
Township.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did you get everybody off the parade route? I know that was probably a bit of a challenge.
WHITNEY: We were in contact almost immediately with the organizers of the parade and let them know that we needed to shut the parade down. We also had officers go up and down the roadway and warn people to go back to their homes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you have a message for community members who received that emergency cancelation not to be in the neighboring communities and to close down businesses as well?
WHITNEY: I would say that we certainly appreciate that everyone took that seriously. It was a dynamic situation at first. We weren't sure where the actor was or where he was going to end up. So out of an abundance of caution, we wanted to keep everybody safe. And I think the community did a great job in honoring that.
(INAUDIBLE)
SCHORN: Sure, we'll provide that to you, if you don't mind, off the record. OK, thank you. I appreciate your time.
WHITNEY: Thanks, everyone.
WHITFIELD: All, right, that was a press conference out of Falls Township, Pennsylvania, which is the location of the first part of what has become a sequence of events involving a suspect who has been identified as 26-year-old Andre Gordon. You heard there from the district attorney of Bucks County, Jen Schorn, as well as the Falls Township police chief Nelson Whitney, who talked about the residences where Gordon is suspected of going to, where three killings have consequently taken place. And you heard from Bucks County D.A. Schorn who said one of the victims, a 25-year-old, was someone with whom the suspect has two children.
We've got team coverage of this developing story. With us right now, former Philadelphia police commissioner Charles Ramsey, former NYPD detective Tom Bernie, and CNN's Danny Freeman also with us.
[14:10:07]
So Danny, let me begin with you, because this is a multifaceted investigation. While we heard from the Bucks County authorities there talk about the events that allegedly transpired there this morning, this investigation is also across state lines into Trenton, New Jersey, where it's believed, and we hope to hear from authorities in Trenton, New Jersey in the same form of this kind of press conference, but thus far we've learned that this suspect is there, is barricaded in what's believed to be a residence, and there were allegedly hostages as well. Bring us up to date based on the information we heard in Pennsylvania first. DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Sure, absolutely. Well, actually,
let me do this, because obviously, there's a lot to digest from that press conference. But we have some information from New Jersey, actually, which we just got in. I'll just read some of it. This is from a Trenton police detective Lisette Rios, Lieutenant -- yes, Lisette Rios, who said, told CNN, I should say, that the residence inside of the house that police have been focusing on, the images that you see on your screen right now, the residents have been successfully evacuated with no injuries. It doesn't say, I should note, it doesn't say specifically -- they use the language residents, not hostages in this particular case, but at least the residents in the home that we've watched for the past hour or so, police focus on in Trenton New Jersey, the residents have been successfully evacuated.
They do believe that the suspect, though, at this point, is still inside and barricaded. They note that -- by them I mean Trenton police, notes that FBI resources are on standby while the ATF, New Jersey state police, and Mercer County rapid response team and the Mercer County homicide taskforce are also all on the scene with the police department. So I just wanted to make sure to get that update, because we just got that within the past few minutes or so.
And if I may just speak about the press conference that we heard.
WHITFIELD: Yes, absolutely.
FREEMAN: Just a lot of information. We had heard -- we reported, rather, the police said that this was a domestic dispute, in essence, the killings prior to the scene right now unfolding in Trenton. And we got a little bit more information that, again, at least one of the people that he killed allegedly was the woman with which he had two children.
Police also said -- or I should say, the district attorney said that Gordon is alleged to have bludgeoned the mother of the woman who has his children with the butt of his assault rifle. One of the things that was interesting is that the police chief of Falls Township was asked specifically, was this suspect on their radar at all? And he said he'd had minor contacts with the Falls Township police in the past, but, I quote, nothing that would indicate something like this would happen.
So again, a lot that we learned from that particular press conference, but I wanted to highlight those aspect.
WHITFIELD: Absolutely. And an unbelievable sequence of events. We still don't -- we didn't hear an explanation as to how this even got started in Falls Township. But those descriptors allowed us to see what he's being alleged of doing in that jurisdiction. And then there was an alleged carjacking that took place. No relation between the person whose car was carjacked, and that person was not injured.
FREEMAN: And that person, notably, was not injured.
And the other thing I'll note that stood out to me from that particular press conferences is that the first -- there are three locations of crimes in Pennsylvania. The first was when two people were killed, the second was when one person was killed, and the third was the carjacking. The district attorney in Bucks County, Jen Schorn, said that in the first location where the first two people were killed, there were several family members in that residence who were actually hiding while Gordon came in --
WHITFIELD: Including children.
FREEMAN: Including at least one minor who was a 13-year-old. You can't even imagine what amount of fear there must have been in that household this morning.
WHITFIELD: All right, Danny, I want to bring in some other folks, too, because, as we've said, this is a very multi-faceted investigation, and at same time were looking at images seen earlier in Trenton, New Jersey, which is the focal point right now where its believed the suspect may be. And again, in this imagery, when you saw earlier, you see law enforcement on that second level. You can see to the right of that residence, there's a ladder. We watched off-camera, not live on television, but we saw it off-camera, we saw the investigator or the authority walking up to that second level. And you see right here her opening -- getting into the window and then escorting somebody out. We've since learned, Danny, through your reporting, that all the residents is how they're classifying the people in that house. They have all been taken out safely.
[14:15:00]
All right, with us now, former FBI deputy director Andrew McCabe. All right, So Andy, this is across state lines, which is why we also love your expertise, because now this possibly as a federal investigation, right, for crossing state lines. So if indeed this suspect continues to be in there, talk to us about the priority of events, trying to negotiate with this person or perhaps the priority is really trying to get residents out safely. Now what possibly is transpiring?
ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: So Fred, you hit the nail on the head there. The first thing if you have the opportunity to do it, and it looks from this compelling video that they had the chance to and took advantage of it, you want to get as many potential hostages, residents, or actual hostages out on, out of that building and off the scene to safety as you possibly can.
And what you're seeing there is a very careful, incredibly dangerous, risky move, but one that successfully evacuated a number of those hostages. Every time you have a hostage leave the set, the level of risk and danger reduces somewhat. And that is really the thing that law enforcement is focused on going forward. As everybody thinks about hostage situations in terms of a tactical entry where a tactical team or a SWAT team goes in and confronts the offender or the hostage taker, in reality, that is the -- that's the option of last resort. It's incredibly dangerous for the law enforcement folks involved and for anybody who is in the house. And so unless people are in imminent danger of serious injury or death, you're going to put that tactical entry off as long as you possibly can. And if you can put it off by engaging with the hostage taker, talking to them, negotiating with them, striking deals for things like food or communications or access to talk to other people, you're going to do that as long as you possibly can.
So these things can typically really drag out. If it starts to drag out like that, that's a sign that they do not believe that anyone inside is an imminent danger of death or injury.
WHITFIELD: And what about from a public safety standpoint? Because you're talking Trenton, New Jersey, which is very heavily, densely populated. We're looking at what appears to be a duplex. And while we are hearing the reporting that residents have been safely escorted from that building, you also look at the proximity of that duplex to the next one over and what's likely across the street, et cetera. So what is likely happening involving the law enforcement resources about keeping people where they are, communicating with other residents in the area, evacuating? What is transpiring possibly?
MCCABE: Well, first they're responding, law enforcement officers are going to be dealing with city officials to understand, based on plans, based on surveys, based on building permits that may have been filed, they want to understand exactly what that target residence involves. How big is it? How many rooms? What's the layout? They also want to know if it has been combined with any of the structures that are adjacent to it, because that would give your subject the ability to move surreptitiously to a different location. So they're going to be doing that in the background.
Upfront, as they determine it's safe to do so, they're going to probably an interact with each one of those adjacent residents, each one of those structures on that block. And if they can, they want to get those people out of there, evacuate them, take them to a place of safety where they can be cared for and catered to until this is all over. That's not always as easy as it sounds. Sometimes you have -- you have homes with people who have medical conditions or mobility issues, and they can't be evacuated quickly and easily. And so you want to communicate with those folks, maybe give them a law enforcement presence in their location to make sure that they are safe where they have to kind of post up and stay inside.
So all of these logistical issues are being addressed in the background while we watch what's going on in front of the house, and, of course, on that roof there were folks are doing their work.
WHITFIELD: And Andy, are there federal resources that are being devoted to this right now in addition to the municipalities?
MCCABE: No question. I think you heard at the Pennsylvania press conference that there they've already interacted with their federal partners at the ATF and also at the FBI. I would expect that the New Jersey officials have done the same thing. As you mentioned, there is an interstate element to this crime. It started in Pennsylvania, now seems to be centered in Jersey. That's certainly a source of jurisdiction, although I should say carjacking is generally -- there's a federal offense for carjacking because of the mobility involved with carjackings. So there's plenty of federal nexus here to involve the resources from the FBI and other agencies. [14:20:05]
Oftentimes in smaller, more rural spots, your federal partners can bring tools and capabilities to a situation like this that you might, the local agencies might not have, like hostage negotiators, or high- tech surveillance capabilities that can actually give you eyes and ears inside the hostage location. But here you're talking about some pretty big municipal departments, Mercer County, Trenton, Bucks County in Pennsylvania, very close to Philadelphia. So there's a lot of robust law enforcement resources right in that local area.
WHITFIELD: OK, I also want to invite to this conversation former Philadelphia police commissioner Charles Ramsey, also with us, hostage negotiator Tom Verni. And I wonder, Tom, if I could go to you next, because while we're hearing reportedly residents have been safely escorted it out, we don't know if there remain any others or anyone who is being classified as a hostage at this point. So what likely is happening right now to make sure that communication is underway with the suspect while delicately also trying to figure out how to bring anyone out of harm's way?
TOM VERNI, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE: Good afternoon, and wow, what a crazy tragedy to be happening on a Saturday. And this is something that police departments train for and hope that never happens. And as has been mentioned by my colleagues, the idea here is to try to lower the temperature of the room, so to speak. We clearly have an individual who is well armed, unfortunately, and has snapped. So now you have someone who is going through an emotionally -- is emotionally disturbed and has weaponry to harm. He's already harmed other people. Probably has no qualms about harming the police, very likely, and could certainly harm himself. So the idea is to try to at least calm things down enough where the adrenaline starts to dissipate a little bit, as best as possible.
WHITFIELD: How do you call them things down, especially given what you just laid out? The sequence of events that are being described as very violent, led to at least three deaths that police are confirming right now. So how does one maintain calm in what is a very erratic situation?
VERNI: Well, on the police side, they're going to be rational thinking, fairly calm people. I mean, they're going to be -- certainly they're adrenaline is going to be running a little bit too because they don't want to get injured or worse in this situation, because we have to work under the assumption that this person feels as if they have nothing to lose. And if they want go out in a blaze of glory, they're going to take everybody else with them. It seems that's how the day started. We're just hoping that the day doesn't end that way.
So again, the idea here is to try to reason with someone who is -- who may be still somewhat unreasonable. And de-escalation tactics are of paramount importance here. And its not an easy thing to do. Usually after everyone is kind of in a place where they're stationary and they don't feel like they're sort of, for lack of a better term, under the gun to hide somewhere else or to carjack somebody else and flee or whatever it may be, then things start to naturally calm down a little bit.
If there's something that they feel that they can use that this suspect might want, then that's -- you try to find something, some sort of common ground, right, to establish that link to try to bring that person to a much more reasonable place, and then, as was mentioned before, to get these other people out there, which they've already done. So that's the good part about this is that no one is an imminent danger at this point, except maybe the suspect himself.
WHITFIELD: Right, bringing the temperature down, that sounds like a gigantic, colossal challenge.
Chief Ramsey, let me bring you into the equation here. What phase of this investigation do you see this right now? There's so much that we don't know, but we only understand that some of the residents have been evacuated safely. We don't know if that person is by themselves, but how do you see things happening right now? And what would be the priority?
CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: It's very active right now. And the good news is, it looks like they were able to remove the residents from that building.
[14:25:03]
That changes things dramatically when you don't have civilians that are inside with an armed suspect. I'm sure they were able to get a lot of intel, a lot of information from the people that were evacuated to know how many people were in there. Did they know the individual? Is this someone who they are familiar with, or did he just randomly force his way inside of a home? So they've gotten a lot of information, and I believe that's why you're hearing now that all the residents are out. So now it's the negotiators trying to make contact with this individual, to talk to them, to try to get him to come out. Now, they'll wait them out.
I want to just highlight something that Andy said earlier. The fact that you saw those SWAT officers using the ladder to go up and evacuate people from the second floor, that is a very risky move, but one that had to be made. Those officers put themselves directly in harm's way to get innocent people out of that building. So really that's something that they trained for. But I think people shouldn't underestimate the risk that's involved in doing something like that.
So right now, hopefully the negotiators are able to make contact with this guy, try to talk him out. And they'll wait him out as long as it takes. If he doesn't have innocent people in there, he can't kill anybody else inside, then time is really on the side of the police right now.
WHITFIELD: And talk to me, chief, about the options of communication, because when you say talk to him, that can come in a lot of different forms, right? We don't know if he has a cell phone. We don't know if there's a landline there. We don't know if a megaphone is used. So what are the variations of ways in which -- RAMSEY: -- but that's what negotiators do. They do their best to try
to reach out to this individual and make some kind of contact with him. He is a known individual, because he's known some of the family members of others may have a cell phone number. They may have an idea as to how to actually reach out. Whether there's a landline in that house is a possibility. But they'll do what they can to try to be able to have some kind of verbal communication with this individual, to try to coax them out, and as Tom said, really try to de-escalate the situation so it can be resolved without any more death.
FREEMAN: Commissioner Ramsey, if I can jump in. It's Danny Freeman over here. You know, obviously, Philadelphia tremendously well, and I imagine you have been up to perhaps this area of Bucks, but certainly Trenton as well. Can you just describe it? From my understanding, having reported in Philly for a while, this is a pretty calm area, at least certainly the Pennsylvania side, that doesn't normally see triple homicides turned carjackings, turn barricades situations, right?
RAMSEY: No, you're right. You just don't have that kind of violent crime occurring on a regular basis and Bucks County. You just don't. And so is highly unusual when you have something like this occur. And I think that's why residents took it so seriously when they got the information that there was a potential active shooter in the area, and you saw businesses shut down. You saw Sesame place, where I take my granddaughter quite frequently in the summer, that's in Langhorne in Bucks County, that was shut down, the Saint Patrick's Day parade. People took it very seriously. It is not common to have something like that take place in that part of Pennsylvania.
WHITFIELD: Thanks to all of you gentlemen. We're going to take a short break. Danny, thank you so much. You're going to stick with me right here on this set as well. We're going to take a short break for now. We'll continue to watch the ongoing developments. They are now the focus being on Trenton, New Jersey. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:33:39]
WHITFIELD: All right, welcome back. We continue with our breaking news. A standoff with a suspect in a triple killing, it continues this hour in New Jersey, although the killings reportedly took place in Pennsylvania. Police say three people who were held hostage by the suspect inside a residence in Trenton, New Jersey, are now safe after being escorted out. All of this comes after three people were shot and killed earlier in the day in what officials are calling a domestic related incident in Falls Township, Pennsylvania.
And then authorities say the suspect then allegedly carjacked someone in Pennsylvania before crossing state lines, and then the vehicle was located there in Trenton, New Jersey. And now the focus is at this residence here in Trenton, New Jersey, where authorities are and where authorities also say residents of that location, as you see in pictures reported earlier, were all safely evacuated. Our Polo Sandoval is there in Trenton, New Jersey, not far from the location which is the focal point of the investigation. What are you learning about all the events transpiring there involving what has been identified as a 26-year-old suspect?
[14:35:05]
POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So Fred, the newest and the latest is that this has now evolved into a form of a standoff situation happening between Trenton police and the suspect identified as a 26 year-old man, Andre Gordon. This is as close as we can take you right now, the yellow tape set up in this Trenton neighborhood. The home that you just showed our viewers is actually about a block just down on this street beyond the second yellow tape. And then where you see that ambulance staged as well as other emergency personnel, you take a left and that's where the home is. In fact, just a few moments ago, emergency personnel, law enforcement here on the scene actually deploying a police drone to try to get a birds-eye view of the home where they say Gordon is essentially barricaded.
And we've seen these pretty powerful, dramatic images of individuals actually evacuating that second floor of the home. And that is why authorities do not believe that there is nobody else inside that house except for the suspect. That's clearly an advantage for law enforcement are right now as they can strategize right now before they proceed and they move forward.
What's important to also keep in mind is all of this sorted about a 15-mile drive -- 15-minute drive south of here in a Philadelphia suburb, which is where Gordon is believed, according to police, to have shot and killed two individuals before he then proceeded to second home where he shot and killed a third individual there. People found hiding in both of those houses, which is absolutely just an incredible detail here to here from investigators, before eventually committing that carjacking in a parking lot. And that is what eventually brings him to this neighborhood in Trenton, New Jersey, where he abandoned the vehicle actually not far from where I'm standing, and then according to police, eventually made his way to that house.
All of this, again, starting at about 09:00 a.m. this morning. Here we are hours later, and now investigators are hoping to bring this to a peaceful end. I can tell you that this has been anything but a peaceful, quiet Saturday for people, not just here in this neighborhood, but also where those shootings happened as shelter in place orders, temporary ones, were issued, even forcing the cancellation of a parade in one of those communities.
Fortunately, though, again, investigators, police have now contained that to this particular stretch of road and Trenton as they hope to bring this situation to a peaceful end and bring 26-year-old Andre Gordon under custody. Fred?
WHITFIELD: And then Polo, have you learned whether there is any of familiarity or relationship between the suspect and why that residence, why those people in that residence? SANDOVAL: We heard from investigators just a short while ago. They're
saying that at this point they do believe that he had family ties to that residence. We do understand that Bucks County district attorney's office also released the identities of some of those victims that were related to Gordon.
In terms of the suspect at this point, they say they did have what they described as minor contacts with him before today, but nothing that would lead investigators to believe that this was an a horizon, this horrible incident would happen today.
In terms of a weapon that he is believed to have used according to investigators during these initial shootings, they say that he was armed, likely with a long rifle, possibly an AR style rifle, according to the Bucks County investigators, and also potentially other weapons as well. It's important also to keep in mind here, Fred, that even before that alleged carjacking took place, that Gordon is believed to have driven a stolen vehicle to that very first scene.
So now as we get a better idea of the events that transpired this morning, it seems that he drove, according to police, a stolen vehicle to the first location, proceeded to the second one, and then eventually carjacks an individual, does not harm them, fortunately, and then makes his way here about seven miles away from that -- from one of the shooting locations where it ends in this standoff.
WHITFIELD: All right, Polo Sandoval there and Trenton, New Jersey, we'll get back with you in a moment.
Still with me is former FBI assistant director Andrew McCabe, as well as hostage negotiator Tom Verni. So I wonder, Tom, if I could go to you quickly on, if it's the case that all of the residence, or if they were hostages, even for a moment, they are all out of that Trenton, New Jersey location, how does the negotiation change? When it was negotiating to release the hostages, but now if you're only dealing with the suspect, how does the tone change? What kind of exchange of information or promises, if you will, are made to try to end this peacefully?
VERNI: So generally, in a situation like this, this, this happens in three different stages, right? You have the hostage taking, or the incident itself, the attack, and someone takes the hostages.
[14:40:04]
Then you have the demands of the negotiation. And then you have the termination of the incident. So that's were in negotiation stage at this point. It's still a fluid situation. It's still active. The termination of the incident would be the guy coming out, preferably with his hands up, and surrendering to police so they could take them into custody.
Unless he comes out with both barrels blazing against the police, where they are forced to use deadly physical force to protect themselves or someone else, then ideally, they would want this to end in a peaceful situation. And that's what they're trying to negotiate now with, again, someone who is not really, up until this point, has been a little off today, to say the least. You're dealing with someone who is emotionally disturbed, and with any emotionally disturbed person, the tactics of the polices is to sort of isolate and contain them, which they've done.
They have -- they've been able to remove the occupants of the household, which is fantastic, because that, like you said, like our other colleagues have mentioned, that in upon itself makes it a little easier for the police to now just negotiate with one person without him necessarily threatening, imminently threatening other people's lives and safety.
And now some time has expired here, right? And usually in these situations, if something is going to happen in most situations, it usually happens within the first 30, 45 minutes, or 60 minutes or so of the incident. That's where emotions are running the highest, the adrenaline is pumping, and rash decisions are usually made. But now that some time has expired, and they've been able to potentially make contact with him and/or negotiate with them, hopefully, that in upon itself, as we mentioned in the last segment, the objective here is to de-escalate the situation, come to some sort of common ground where he will, hopefully, give up on its own and they can just take him into custody. And then we can move on.
WHITFIELD: So Andy McCabe, there remains a lot of volatility here though, right? I mean, even though hostages may have been released, for suspect who is holding hostages, that's usually the leverage that allows them to feel like they're in control of the situation, right? So now that the suspect no longer has that leverage, how do you see the volatility of this situation only escalating?
MCCABE: Sure. Well, I think Tom is right to characterize the number one priority now that you're hostages are off the scene is containment. And so they are really probably moving resources into position in 360 degrees around that location to make sure that if he if he realizes he's lost his leverage, he's stuck in a house surrounded by law enforcement. If he entertains the idea that he might be able to escape, this is somebody who has escaped already today several times, stolen a car to get to his first crime scene, committed a murder there, somehow traveled to the second scene, hijacked a vehicle to get to New Jersey. So this is a very committed, very violent person who has allegedly committed already three murders today. So law enforcement approaches this guy with the assumption he is as armed and dangerous as it gets with an AR style rifle, and somebody who has already killed people, people in his own life today. So there's absolutely no reasonably that he wouldn't strike out lethally against law enforcement.
If he harbors the idea that he might be able to get out, you want to make sure your resources are positioned so that he cannot get out of that house without being confronted by law enforcement. You've gotten everybody else out of the area. You've evacuated close residences on that block. You want to establish complete control. And then you wait, right? You talk, you negotiate, you try to build rapport with this person. You try to build a relationship of trust between him and the negotiator. And you try to negotiate around those things you can do for him. You, of course, will not send anyone else into that setting, but you might negotiate over food, or water, or access to communications, or the ability to talk to someone that he wants to speak to about advice, maybe someone from his -- a clergymen or a relative who he relies on it for advice and guidance. You're going to have those people lined up ahead of time. You're going to have already coached them on what sort of things that you want them to say and the directions you'd like them to try to influence him.
[14:45:02]
And you wait. There's no reason to take additional risk at this point by sending a team into that house. If at some point they determine he is just absolutely never coming out of there, he knows the only place for him to go is jail for the rest of his life or be killed in the process of trying to avoid that, and so he decides he's going to stay in there forever. Obviously, he can't stay there forever. And at that point, you'd have to send in a tactical team. But that's a long way off. We have really just tucked in to a situation that law enforcement is capable of maintaining for a long time.
WHITFIELD: Wow, that's fascinating. OK, Andy McCabe and Tom Verni, thank you so much. Don't go far because, again, we continue to watch the situation that one can call a standoff only because what we understand is that this suspect, who is being blamed for three killings earlier today in Pennsylvania, and after a carjacking has made his way to Trenton, New Jersey, believed to be in the residence that you're seeing right now, where negotiations could be ongoing after peaceful release of residents of that house has already taken place, but now continued negotiations with the suspect himself. We'll be right back after this.
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[14:50:50]
WHITFIELD: All right, welcome back to our continuing coverage of a standoff in Trenton, New Jersey, where a suspect who is being linked to a triple killing across state lines in Pennsylvania in Falls Township is now allegedly in the residence that you're seeing right now in Trenton, New Jersey, after the killings and after a carjacking, he allegedly cross state lines, went to this residence, apparently has ties to the Trenton, New Jersey area. Police were then able to surround this residence where they were safely able to help evacuate other residents who were in the home. It was reported earlier that he had hostages, and so we've only heard from police at their calling them residents who were safely evacuated from this duplex.
You're seeing images from earlier today where you saw law enforcement who put a ladder and able to get to the second level burst through a window, were able to escort at least one person that you see right now in this imagery, who then was able to descend and walked down that ladder safely. But the situation is ongoing. Hostage negotiators are presumably negotiating and talking with the suspect to try to end this safely.
Here's the suspect, 26 year-old Andre Gordon. With me right now, Cully Stimson. He was assistant an assistant U.S.
attorney for violent crime the Washington, D.C. U.S. attorney's office, and prosecuted homicides in D.C. and Maryland. I'm so glad that you're able to be with us now to just give us some familiarity about how negotiations will be ongoing now. Apparently, all the hostages or residents of that duplex have now been evacuated safely. That's great news. But negotiations continue possibly with the suspect. How do you envision that as happening? How are they communicating with the suspect? By what means? And what do you believe is possibly being said to an individual who has it was being accused of a sequence of erratic behavior?
CHARLES "CULLY" STIMSON, SENIOR FELLOW, THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION: Yes, I think, as your previous guests said, the goal here is to dial the temperature down, speak in a calm, cool, and collected way. His family has probably provided the law enforcement his cell phone numbers, or they're using bull horns or some other means of communication and trying to get the guy to engage and try to rationalize with him that it's in his best interest to turn himself in. Things will be fine.
But I mean, when you kill three people and you still two cars and you sprint across state lines, this is not a rational human being. So it's really up to him of whether or not he dials the temperature down and accepts their invitation to turn himself in.
One way or the other, Fredricka, this is going to end. It's probably going to end before it gets dark, because once it gets dark, things get a little more dangerous. And it's either going to end with him taking his own life, sadly, or he's going to turn himself in, and hopefully no law enforcement officers get injured. And then the hard work of putting a case together starts. And I suspect they're already starting that in Bucks County where this case will ultimately be tried.
WHITFIELD: Well, talk to me about the great risks that persist, even though many of the hostages or people who are residents of that building have been safely evacuated. You mentioned, however, then there's nightfall, but before you get to that point, talk to me about the great risks involved here as law enforcement tried to get in there safely, communicate, like you said, either by bullhorn or cell phone, et cetera, to try to talk to somebody who has already demonstrated, allegedly demonstrated violent behavior.
STIMSON: Right. And number one, we don't even know if this guy is on something besides adrenaline. If he has a long gun and he has an AR-15 type weapon, that has a long reach out and touch ability. So he could just start randomly firing that weapon through walls. And I've seen those walls and windows won't stop those bullets. So those law enforcement officers and those people negotiating are putting themselves in grave danger.
[14:55:01]
They are aware of the risk. I'm sure they have body armor and whatnot. But these are heroes, everyday heroes. And these types of domestic situations pop up all the time. And these guys are, I'm sure, well- trained. So hopefully he does the right thing and turns himself in. But with his recent behavior in the last 12 hours, who knows?
WHITFIELD: Yes, Cully Stimson, I hope you can stick with us. We're going to take a short break for now as we continue to watch this standoff taking place in Trenton, New Jersey. We'll be right back.
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