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CNN International: Lawyers: Trump Can't Make $464 Million Bond In Civil Fraud Case; Trump Warns Of "Bloodbath" For Auto Industry, Country If He Losses The Presidential Election; Biden And Netanyahu Speak For First Time In Weeks; Israeli Troops Surround Largest Hospital In Northern Gaza; Today: Supreme Court Deadline On Controversial Texas Law; Haitian Police: At Least 10 Killed In Residential Area Of Port-Au-Prince. Aired 3-3:45p ET

Aired March 18, 2024 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:36]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: It is 7:00 p.m. in London, 9:00 p.m. in Jerusalem, 4:00 a.m. in Tokyo, 3:00 here in Washington. I'm Jim Sciutto. Thanks so much for joining me today on CNN NEWSROOM.

And let's get right to the news. We begin with new developments in one of Donald Trump's ongoing legal battles. And this one relates directly to his personal wealth. Does he have what he claims on hand, and how much of it will he lose?

The former president is facing an enormous cash crunch. Trump's attorneys told the New York appeals court he cannot find an insurance company to underwrite a bond to cover the $454 million judgment in the New York civil fraud case, which involved Trump Organization. This is the second multi-million-dollar judgment that Trump owes money tens of millions of dollars. In fact, earlier this month, he paid the $91 million bond for the E. Jean Carroll defamation civil case.

CNN crime and justice reporter Katelyn Polantz joins us now.

S, Katelyn, I wonder what reason do Trump's lawyers give for not being able to come up with the bond?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, Jim, it's not a simple thing here. It's that they went to insurance companies, underwriters, and those insurance companies weren't willing to work with Trump in what he has. He has real estate and what they want is cash. That would be almost half billion dollars in cash, that would be needed to underwrite a bond like this. And the reason that Trump wants a bond and needs a bond is because he wants to appeal. So, you have to post the bond for the amount of the judgment, that $464 million because of this lawsuit that would hold off the New York state government from coming and seizing his properties and his assets.

But the insurance company is not only do they want cash and not real estate, to underwrite this bond, they also have internal policies that limit them from issuing bonds this large. That's according to one of his insurance brokers, who told the court that they often won't do anything more than $100 million. So Trump really is going to have to figure something out here.

SCIUTTO: Okay, so what happens next? I know that interest accrues and I believe $150,000 per day. I mean, can't Trump just keep kicking this down the road?

POLANTZ: That's not really how it works whenever you lose a lawsuit like this. What happens next is the clock continues to tick. So there are still a couple of days down the line that Trump has to try and figure something out, but he is going to have to try and figure something out if he wants to continue appealing this and not have his assets seized or the New York attorney generals office to step in and try and do what they want to do as the winners of this lawsuit. There's a bunch of options out there. Of course, it's Donald Trump. He's someone who often wants to negotiate and make a deal. We'll see if he's able to do that with any of these insurance companies or underwriters in the coming days, if he may be could put up his real estate empire as collateral.

But at the end of the day, there's always the word bankruptcy out there. But in this sort of situation, when you lose a lawsuit, you can't use bankruptcy to get out from under a debt like this. So we'll have to see what the former president does next.

SCIUTTO: Yeah, legal system constantly being tested in multiple ways.

Katelyn Polantz, thanks so much.

So joining me now to discuss the legal questions, CNN legal analyst, former federal prosecutor Jennifer Rodgers.

Jennifer good to have you.

JENNIFER RODGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Thanks. Good to be here.

SCIUTTO: So, Jennifer, he went to 30 underwriters. They all said no. What happens now for him? I mean, what happens if he can't get a bond?

RODGERS: Well, he's filed an appeal with the mid-level court in New York, the appellate division, saying, listen, legally, you appellate division court have the ability to either let me appeal without filing any bond at all or to lessen the amount of the bond. And he's asking them to do that.

So there are two questions here for the appellate division sitting on their laps right now, one is the legal question of whether they actually do have the discretion to lessen the amount of the bond or to let him appeal without filing a bond at all. And still have the judgment states so that the attorney general can't collect and then the second question, if the appellate division besides that, it does have that power, is, are they going to do that for him?

[15:05:03]

Are they going to say, okay, you can't get a bond in this amount, maybe you can get a lesser bond, maybe you can also post some properties as collateral for this judgment amount?

So if they decide they have the power and the inclination to try to let him a post something less than the full amount, then the question will be a factual one about what they can actually post for him that will ensure that people of New York, that the payday will come at the appellate process if it's upheld.

SCIUTTO: OK. I want to get to that potential final conclusion, but before I get there, the underwriters, they're seeking cash, not properties to back the bonds according to the lawyers. Is that unusual?

RODGERS: Well, from what I've read and I'm not an expert in this part of New York law, but it's not unusual because they want not actually just cash, but cash equivalents like securities, things that can be easily fully liquidated. Real estate is tough. You know, you have to sell it. You may not get what you think the value is forward. It takes time.

So those kind of bonding companies do typically want either cash or cash equivalents. That's not unusual. What's unusual here is the huge amount of the bond, to be honest, I mean, this is way above what normally is the case, and that makes it difficult for the courts because there really aren't a lot of cases to look at to say, well, in this case of a half $1 billion bond, you know, we did X, Y, and Z. There's few numbers like this that there aren't a lot of points of comparison

SCIUTTO: So, let me ask you this because a bonds actually not his money, right? I mean, is it -- at what point does he actually have to pay some money, right? I mean, he's clearly going to stretch out the process, appeals, et cetera. But eventually those appeals will either they rule in his favor and it disappears or is reduced, or he loses.

At what point does he actually have to pay 400 and some odd million dollars in excess of that?

RODGERS: So when the judgment is finalized. So if he doesn't get this bond things sorted out, he can still technically appeal the legal judgment, but the attorney general will be able to start collecting, so she can start seizing properties and stuff to try to get up to that $450 million amount, but it's not technically final until the appeal is done.

And you're right. That can take a lot of time, but that's why the bond is in place so that, you know, the assets don't go anywhere and disappear while that process plays out. But if he can't get this stay while the appeal is done, then she'll start collecting as of Monday the 25th. That's why he's scrambling so much right now.

SCIUTTO: Jennifer Rodgers, thanks so much.

Well, on the campaign trail, the former president now presumptive GOP nominee is leaning in on familiar and deeply dark themes. At a rally in Ohio, he ratcheted up his rhetoric against immigrants. He we iterated his promise to pardon those who attack the capital on January 6, including those accused and convicted of violent crimes. And he warned of a bloodbath for the auto industry and the country if he were to lose in November.

Have a listen to part of his speech.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT & 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We're going to put a 100 percent tariff on every single car that comes across the line. And you're not going to be able to sell those cars -- if I get elected. Now, if I don't get elected, its going to be a bloodbath for the whole -- that's going to be the least of it. It's going to be a bloodbath for the country. That'll be the least of it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: CNN's Kristen Holmes, she joins me now.

Kristen, Trump faced a lot of criticism for those comments and we should be clear, it wasn't just a bloodbath comment. It was calling some migrants animals. He said they're not people. This of course, echoes consistent rhetoric from him going back to 2016 in the way he is dismissive of people coming from other countries.

I know the campaign pushed back. You cover the campaign very closely. What is their explanation for what he said? And is it a fair one?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's not just the campaign that was pushing back. That was the former president himself, which really goes to show where we are in this cycle.

As you noted, this is not new rhetoric. Sure. Has she use the term bloodbath for the auto industry in the past? No, he has not. But has he continued to use this divisive language, dark language saying he will be people's retribution if he's reelected. He will be the one who seeks revenge that has not changed in the last year.

But what has changed is the reaction to it and where we stand now in the political climate -- meaning, as you noted, Donald Trump is now the presumptive Republican nominee. He is in a battle for a general election seat at the White House against Joe Biden. Everything he says is now under the microscope.

So after he said those comments, he then posted on social media today reiterating this was just about the auto industry. This had nothing to do with anything else. Everybody else who is saying this essentially is making it up. They knew that I was just talking about what would happen to the auto industry if Joe Biden won.

There's a lot of significance in seeing Donald Trump almost retract or at least doubled down on his defense of his own statements because it's not something we see very often.

[15:10:06]

And the reason why he's doing it is because he also knows that the focus is on him now, everything that he says that he's been saying, again, as you noted for the last year, is now under the microscope because he is running in a two-man against Joe Biden for the presidency and Joe Biden's team is going to highlight all of these things to essentially say, is this a person you want to vote for? And that is some thing that Donald Trump's team is going to have to figure out how to deal with.

SCIUTTO: One comment from his speech that he and his advocates have not backed off from is calling my some migrants animals, said they're not people. He's done this before, we go back to 2016, right, when he called for a Muslim ban. And, by the way, he delivered on that as president. Tell us about that specific comment.

HOLMES: Well, just to note, it's not just the Muslim ban and what are the things that he has essentially proposed and said that he would stand by if he was re-elected into office in 2024, is a mass deportation and it's not just taking migrants together and putting them and deporting them. He's also saying he essentially put them in some kind of camps or housing facilities while they waited to be deported.

So this really goes in line with the kind of rhetoric we have heard from him. But I want to play for you exactly what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: If I had prisons that were teeming with MS-13 and all sorts of people that they've got to take care of for the next 50 years, right? Young people, they're in jail for years. If you call them people, I don't know if you call them people. In some cases, they're not people in my opinion. These are animals, okay?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: And one way to describe how Donald Trump is going to run for office as he heads into November is that he is going to double down on the issue of immigration and migrants and he's going to double down on fear-mongering. One of the things that we know that he has done is continued to point out these crimes committed by migrants that are very scary to parts of the country.

Now, we should also note that all of the data suggests that migrants actually commit fewer crimes than citizens. However, there have been some high profile cases that people have latched onto and also Donald Trump himself has latched onto. So you shouldn't expect this kind of rhetoric to go away at all.

SCIUTTO: Yeah, it's rhetoric and its tied to action because he has a track record now for how he behaves, particularly on well-worn immigration and other issues.

Sources are telling CNN Donald Trump's campaign is going to -- is going to bring back a familiar face from 2016. Who is that and why?

HOLMES: Paul Manafort, who if you'll remember, was charged with a series of financial crimes and then pardoned by the former president during that last minute blitz of pardons. Paul Manafort was somebody who was one of many people who served as a campaign chair back in 2016. And they're saying that the isn't discussions with Trump's team to participate in his reelection campaign in some way.

Now that does not mean directly being part of the campaign. Instead, sources are pointing me to the idea that he would help with the Republican national convention. That's something Paul Manafort did in a previous life, has been in politics for a very long time. Obviously, before he was charged with those financial crimes, and then pardoned by the former president.

Now I'm told by Donald Trumps allies that Trump has been talking a lot about Manafort and bringing him into the fold. No decisions though, have been made as to what exactly this would look like. These are just ongoing conversations, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Kristen Holmes, thanks so much.

With me now to discuss, two political experts and CNN commentators Maria Cardona and Shermichael Singleton. Good to have you both on.

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Thanks, Jim.

SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Thanks, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Shermichael, I want to begin with you because I think it's important to expand beyond any one particular comment by Trump as he campaigns to return to the Oval Office. The bloodbath comment focused on the auto industry, but in the same speech, he praised folks convicted of crimes for attacking the Capitol on January 6, that he will pardon all of them, refer to some migrants as animals. He called those January 6 rioters, unbelievable patriots.

I spoke to his former chief of staff, reported this last week that while he was president, he said that Hitler did some good things.

I just wondered, why aren't Republican lawmakers in numbers expressing any opposition to this when they know and they will say privately that language is wrong and offensive?

SINGLETON: Sure. I think to the offensive part about January 6 individuals or some of the migrants who commit criminal activity or behavior. I think most Republicans are looking at the reality, Jim, that Donald Trump is going to be the nominee of the party. He has around 60, 70 percent support within the Republican Party, even that 30 percent that stood with Nikki Haley through several states, a fraction of them have stated that they will hold their nose and vote for the former president.

And so I think like most political creatures, they're looking at the reality of the environment and the reality of the environment, at least within the Republican Party is that Donald Trump is the person that over majority, a super majority I would say of Republican voters are being decisive, with standing behind.

[15:15:04] Now what that said though, when you look at it from the other side as it pertains to immigration, generally speaking, it sort of reminds me, Jim, about old Machiavelli phrase, effectual truth, there is some truth in Trump's statements that immigration is a problem. But is that the best descriptive to describe the problem?

I think most of us would probably say no. Many of those Republicans know that. But again, they're looking at the politics.

SCIUTTO: There are no limits. I mean, can a president say Hitler did some good things and there's not a peep from anybody in the Republican Party to say, actually, that -- I'm a politician, I support my party, but that goes too far?

SINGLETON: You know, Jim, I think you'll see people maybe like Senator Mitt Romney, who I worked for, maybe Susan Collins out of Maine, may come out with a statement if asked by a reporter. But I think by and large, the vast majority are going to be silent.

Again, they're looking at this political reality. There's a number of seats up for grabs on the House side. A number of seats on the Senate side of that Republicans are hoping to regain control there, and, I think the last thing that they want potentially is to be on the wrong side of the former president to get his ire and lose potentially some of that support and some of those crucial critical races.

Is it right? That's a moral and ethical question. I think we all know so the answer to that. But again, looking at it purely through the political guise, I think there's just some different calculations here.

SCIUTTO: So, Maria Cardona, what do you do with that? Your party is trying to reelect Joe Biden right now. Shermichael is right. That the core, for instance, on the immigration issue, not the way the former president talks about and demonizes, frankly, people coming into this country and has consistently on the issue. That's a weakness for Biden.

How do you respond all this?

CARDONA: Well, I think well, first of all, my dear amigo Shermichael was really trying to say that the vast majority of Republican elected officials are cowardly spineless, political creatures. So, let's just put that front and center, which is a pathetic thing to say about one of the major parties in this country.

Be that as it may, what Biden and the Democrats are going to continue to do is reminding the American people, just how much this president is xenophobic, anti-immigrant, anti-Latino, and how he will continue to weaponize the issue of immigration, calling immigrants rapists and criminals like he did when he first came out in his campaign in 2015, at how he is continually saying that me as an immigrant, my family, my community poisons the blood of this country when we know it's completely the opposite, we actually enrich it.

And so, the President Biden and the Democrats will continually remind people of that reality because lets remember this, Jim, that, that rhetoric worked for Donald Trump in 2016, but then it backfired in 2018, in 2020, in 2022, in 2023, and in 2024.

In the last special election in New York, the Democrat Tom Suozzi won by talking about solutions on immigration. And that's exactly what this president is going to continue to do, and remind people just how dangerous the rhetoric that this president, that the former president is using. And to let him get any anywhere near the White House again, January 6 will be a pleasant day compared to what will come.

SCIUTTO: Shermichael, I do want to ask you because Maria is right. I mean, if you look at -- forget polls, you know, forget how lawmakers on the Hill react. If you look at when people actually went to vote 2018, they swung against Republicans 2020 Trump lost and Republicans lost the Senate 2022. Public is vastly under pursuant with performed in midterms and you've had a lot of specials where Democrats have done pretty well. From a purely political perspective, you were describing -- is this a smartest thing for Republicans to do?

SINGLETON: I mean, look, I would see this a little differently, Jim, and I'll tell you why. Most of those races, with the exception of the most recent special election in New York, where the focus actually was on immigration as clearly state about my dear friend, Maria, most of those other races were about -- were about abortion, about abortion rights, which Republicans completely screwed up on that issue, and we continue to screw up on that issue even as lately as Alabama, in IVF. You saw that Republicans came out and wait, a minute here, we're not against supporting families who want to use IVF or any other treatment to start their families.

However, I'm not convinced that that issue alone, that singular issue will be a determinant to factor this November. I think we have to acknowledge despite some improvements with the economy, I will certainly give President Biden credit, where credit is due, people are still principally concerned with it, Jim.

[15:20:01]

They are still principally concerned with immigration. And I think if those two issues are front and center, then there is a potential advantage for Trump.

SCIUTTO: We'll watch. All fair points.

Maria, Shermichael, good to have you on. We'll certainly have you back.

CARDONA: Thanks so much, Jim.

SINGLETON: Thanks, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Still coming up this hour, President Biden and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu just spoke on the telephone for the first time in weeks. They've had some tough public words for each other. What we know about that call, that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: President Biden and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu just spoke on the telephone for the first time in more than a month, as tensions between the two leaders grows, national security adviser Jake Sullivan, says that Biden and Netanyahu spoke a great deal about the potential Israeli military operation in Rafah in Gaza, where millions of Palestinians have fled fighting elsewhere in the strip.

The White House says that operation would be a mistake especially since Israel has yet to offer a plan for how they would safely evacuate the many civilians there.

Meanwhile, the Israeli military has surrounded the largest hospital in Gaza, is calling for evacuations, claiming they are targeting senior Hamas terrorists.

Look at those pictures there. A displaced Palestinians sheltering at the Al-Shifa Hospital tells CNN that military vehicles were firing at the hospital and at anyone caught moving from building to building.

CNN's Jeremy Diamond is live in Jerusalem. CNN's Priscilla Alvarez is at the White House.

Priscilla, if I could begin with you. Do we know how this phone call went? Because there's been a very public and we've learned private disagreement between the two leaders.

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, I asked national security adviser Jake Sullivan exactly that in the White House briefing that took place moments ago and he described this call as business-like, saying that it didn't end abruptly and ended mutually.

But clearly, Jim, there has been a riff that has played out publicly in recent weeks and even the pace of calls is telling here. Of course, the president and the prime minister used to speak quite regularly following the October 7 attacks.

This call taking place a month. It hasn't taken place at least for over 30 days. So the call today a happening earlier in the morning and the two discussing at length the operation, a potential operation in Rafah, as well as getting humanitarian aid into Gaza. And what the national security advisor made clear is that there needs to be a strategic end game here that is what they're looking for from Israel.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE SULLIVAN, U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: A military plan cannot succeed without an integrated humanitarian plan and political plan. And the president has repeatedly made the point that continuing military operations need to be connected to a clear strategic endgame.

(END VIDEO CLIP) ALVAREZ: Now the national security adviser said that this call was part of the evolution of the discussion between the president and the prime minister. But also that it comes at an inflection point. Of course, this has been a top concern for the White House.

[15:25:03]

This being that operation into Rafah. This is a place in Gaza where more than 1 million Palestinians have fled to and that the White House is concerned that if Israel were to move in without any plans, it would just end in more civilian deaths.

This is top of mind. It was top of mind in this phone call with the prime minister. There weren't any commitments that the national security adviser relayed so much as saying that this -- they don't anticipate an operation to happen anytime soon.

SCIUTTO: Jeremy, listen, there's some history here, right? Netanyahu has publicly aligned himself with the Republican Party in this country, even prior to the Biden administration. Is he worried about this increasingly frayed relationship with the White House or is there some calculation where you are that he's waiting for perhaps a different occupant after the November election?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think the Israeli prime minister is definitely feeling on the defensive. He is feeling the heat from the White House and also from other Democrats in Washington and you can tell just based on the pickup in the number of interviews that these early prime minister is giving to American media, the number of English language statements that he is making and in the kind of increasing outrage that he is voicing particularly over the weekend following that a speech, a very dramatic speech from Senator Chuck Schumer with the Israeli prime minister saying, look, Israel is not a banana republic and this is unacceptable to have this kind of what he views as interference from American political leaders in Israeli -- in Israeli public.

It's important to keep in mind that one of Netanyahu's top calling cards here in Israeli domestic politics is his close relationship with American leaders, his ability to have that relationship with Washington, and that is being undermined by those statements by the White House, by Chuck Schumer and by others as well. Now, Netanyahu did but point though, when he said that the White House is wrong, that Schumer is wrong when they say that these really public disagree with my handling of the war.

And on that front, he is correct that the majority of Israel please do support the way not only the war itself, but the way in which the war is being conducted. And so that is a fundamental disagreement there between the Israelis and the Americans.

SCIUTTO: Deeply, deeply fundamental disagreement.

Jeremy, the IDF has now surrounded the Al Shifa Hospital. We've seen this before, in their military operations in Gaza, operations around medical facilities. Israeli say they were terrorists operating there. But invariably we've seen civilians including hospital staff and patients suffer.

What's the explanation for this?

DIAMOND: Yeah, it's also important to keep in mind right off the top of this, that 30,000 civilians have been estimated to be he sheltering at Al Shifa hospital in northern Gaza, an area of course, that we've been talking about a lot lately because of the dire humanitarian crisis unfolding in northern Gaza. And so that context is important.

The Israeli military says that they carried out this operation overnight at Al Shifa Hospital and into the day with ground troops, with tanks, with airstrikes as well as we've heard from eyewitnesses on the ground. They say they carried out this operation because they say the hospital has once again become a ground for Hamas operatives. They say that they killed about 20 militants as well as a senior Hamas operative at the hospital itself.

They've also shown video of what they claim to be weapons and ammunition that they found on the grounds of the hospital. But it is also important to note the civilian toll that has come with this operation as we've seen not only civilians who were sheltering at the hospital, but also reports of heavy Israeli airstrikes in the Al-Rimal neighborhood surrounding the hospital as well, where we've seen women and children being among the casualties there -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: Thousands of children, in fact, at the start of these military operations.

Jeremy Diamond, Priscilla Alvarez, thanks so much.

Back in this country, in a matter of hours and unprecedented new immigration law could go into effect in the state of Texas. We're waiting to see if the U.S. Supreme Court will extend an emergency hold on that law. It's the latest in an intense legal battle between the Biden administration, the federal government, in fact, and the state of Texas over border policy.

The law in question allows Texas state troopers to arrest and detain people they suspect of having entered the U.S. illegally, authority Texas argues is necessary to stem the flow of drugs and migrants. Immigration advocates say it violates federal jurisdiction and also lays the ground for racial profiling.

CNN's Ed Lavandera, he's been following this from Dallas. He joins us now.

What can you tell us now about how Texas is preparing to enforce this law? If while tonight, if the Supreme Court allows that to happen?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, many communities up and down the border are grappling with just that question. I've spoken with some law enforcement officers that, you know, there's real concern about whether or not there is the manpower on the ground to enforce the way this law is written and empowering local law enforcement officers with the ability to arrest people who are here in Texas illegally. [15:30:13]

So there's real questions about how this will be implemented if it is allowed to go into effect. And right now, we're about an hour-and-a- half away from this deadline that the U.S. Supreme Court issued in the last few weeks to hear what that court will determine as to the fate of what is known as Senate Bill 4, SB-4. And that as you mentioned, is the intensely controversial law that Texas lawmakers passed in December and was signed by Texas Governor Greg Abbott, which allows law enforcement, local law enforcement to arrest people for illegal entry and as well as allows local state judges to deport people.

And the Biden administration, the Justice Department, as well as other immigrant advocacy groups, sued the state of Texas to block this law. They say that the immigration enforcement is the sole responsibility of the federal government. It should not be left up to local jurisdictions.

The state of Texas, Jim, is saying that it has the right to defend its sovereignty and to protect itself from what it says is a failed immigration policy implemented by the Biden administration.

So these are the forces at play down here on the ground, right now, as all eyes are on the U.S. Supreme Court waiting to see how it will rule on this controversial law.

SCIUTTO: Ed Lavandera, thanks so much.

Coming up, at least 10 people killed in Haiti's capital as violence becomes -- well, a new normal there. We're live in Port-au-Prince for a look at what life is like now in what's become one of the most dangerous cities in the world.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: Law and order is a distant memory in Haiti as militias wielding machetes, battle gangs for control in Haiti's capital, Port- au-Prince. Haitian police confirmed at least ten people have been killed just today in a residential section. The police do not know who is behind the desk, but did say they were not responsible themselves, the police.

CNN's David Culver is one of the first American journalists on the ground in Port-au-Prince. He visited a police station that's become a prime target for gangs who are trying to take control of the surrounding community block by block.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID CULVER, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Police stations like this one here in Port-au-Prince are main targets for gangs. They feel like as soon as they can get hold of a stage like this, they can then take siege, and take control of much of the community and they've tried coming after this. One many times, reinforcements have been built up, not only because of the pleas, but because of the community. They've got barricades all around you. [15:35:04]

For the police station to function properly, they need to allies on the community and to have these almost vigilantes building a lot of the barricades to keep out any gang members

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: David Culver joins me now live from Port-au-Prince.

And, Dave, I wonder who is attempting to take some sort of control there away from the gangs? Is there any credible force? I mean, can the police stand up to them? Are there -- are there international efforts that are anywhere in the near future, right, to begin to re -- to reapply law and order?

CULVER: The short answer to that, Jim, is, it's a broken system and there's no one individual or entity that stepping up right now. It's a united front between police who have little to no resources. They're losing officers by the day and they have little to no ammo left, which is making it really challenging for them to go up again, some of these gangs that have been able to essentially get more so as two then counted them with a lot more strength.

I mean, so you've got the police though, but then you also have community folks who are stepping in and you saw there they put up barriers. Well, those were put to the test in an incident that happened early this morning. You had to affluent neighborhoods here that were attacked by gangs. We've just learned in the past few minutes through sources that police were able to push them back with the help of the community.

But it shows you just how much of a united effort this has to be. And then making things even more complicated is the refugees within this city, people who are from Port-au-Prince who have had to flee their homes, not just once, but several times and go from camp site to campsite just to find some sort of safety that never really is long- lasting shelter.

Here's a sampling of what we've over the weekend.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CULVER: So this was a school here in Port-au-Prince, Haiti. And every single classroom, if we pass like this one here, has now become a dorm room essentially. There are dozens, if not hundreds, of people who have made this a recent camp site.

And you can see a lot of them are following surrounded are curious what were doing because for them, it's a distraction really and you talked to a lot of these folks. And they've come here in the past couple of weeks because of the most recent surge in violence. And gangs taking more and more territory here in the city, but these folks have also been on the run from their own home for months, if not years. She just got this small bag of rice and she's going to cook it up for

seven lot of them tell me they don't know where their next meal is going to be. One little girl, eight years old, saying she goes to bet every single night, hungry in a lot of that is because in the past two weeks, in particular, supply lines especially for programs of international aid like the World Food Programme have been severed.

So there's organizations are trying desperately to get to them. It's not just about getting them into Port-au-Prince, it's been about giving them into communities like this. The challenges logistically are immense. They're dealing with this at a level that they have not faced prior. I mean, it's unprecedented

And the pain, you can sense in the kids' eyes and their parents who feel helpless at this point. But for them, it's about pushing forward. I asked one woman how you get up every day move ahead with the grace of God, but then admitted in the same breath, that sometimes they feel they'd be better off dead than living.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: There's so much suffering. Where do international efforts stand, to try to help? Is there any measurable progress?

CULVEER: The U.N. airbridge got up and going this weekend and its bringing at first some personnel from some of them into Port-au- Prince. And it's significant that they were able to get to choppers on Saturday and then another two on Sunday and several today have been able to go back and forth. So that itself is a lot of progress.

What's on board those helicopters is mostly medical supplies. So then you get it here to Port-au-Prince, Jim, the challenges, how then do you go through some of these communities? So as to distribute them because you have different gangs blocking off different roadways and that can change hour-by-hour throughout the day.

So the route to get to those who most desperately need these things is what's as of now severed. And so as soon as they can re-establish those with the help of police and again, community then they're able to get them to where they need to go. But that's medical supplies and that's not even talking about the food insecurity because the food right now has not been coming in and the numbers that it used to and getting them to the people who were now isolating themselves and sealing themselves off is next to impossible.

SCIUTTO: Whenever you can to stay alive.

David Culver, thanks so much. Please keep yourself and your team safe.

Joining me now, Garry Pierre-Pierre. He's the founder and editor of "The Haitian Times".

[15:40:01]

It's good to have you here. You wrote in a CNN op-ed that the violence in Haiti has deep roots. It

did not start -- and quoting you here -- with the latest spasm of the violence at the hands of the gunman overrunning the country. You spent the first decade of your life in Haiti before coming here.

How did we here?

GARRY PIERRE-PIERRE, FOUNDER AND EDITOR, HAITIAN TIMES: Well, first of all, Jim, I wanted to thank you for giving some time to the story, and particularly for David -- to David for being on the ground in Haiti. I know the difficulty he's facing. We have correspondents there. So thank you so much.

How we got here basically is just neglect from three-quarters. The international community, the political class, and kleptocratic, oligarchic folks who run the private sector, who have turn Haiti into their own personal fiefdom.

SCIUTTO: Yeah.

PIERRE-PIERRE: And so with each crisis, things get worse.

Where we are right now, Jim, is really we are working towards genocide of Haiti because we are talking about fighting. There's nobody fighting some. It's a massacre, well, gangs who are preying on the population.

This is going to get even worse than where we are now.

SCIUTTO: Goodness.

PIERRE-PIERRE: Before we were saying chaos. It's no longer chaos. It's really a massacre going on there, as David is on the ground.

SCIUTTO: That's shocking to hear. I mean, one of the gang leader said his goal was to overthrow the prime minister Ariel Henry. He and others, they appear to have succeeded, he's withdrawing. But does that solve the problem at all?

PIERRE-PIERRE: Absolutely not. And that was never the problem to begin with, Jim. The problem was a lack of institution. And like an extra charge infrastructure excuse me, to govern the nation properly, to find peace and prosperity.

So if you're not addressing the root cause of the problem, so what do you think changing one person is going to do? Nothing. We have proof of that.

The problem was never Ariel Henry. It's never one individual. It's a system that needs to be dismantled in a country that needs to push that reset button and try -- try once for all, get things done. What can be done?

I think right now, the police need help. They need material, they need intelligence information to really go after the gangs, stabilize things a little bit until the social aid comes in and then commerce can be turned to Haiti once and get things moving.

SCIUTTO: Well, it's not the last time we talked about this. Let's keep talking because I want to hear your thoughts as the situation develops.

Garry Pierre-Pierre, thanks so much for joining us.

PIERRE-PIERRE: Thanks for having me, Jim.

SCIUTTO: And still ahead for our international viewers, "LIVING GOLF" is up next. For our U.S. viewers watching on Max, we're going to be right back after this break with what happens next in Vladimir Putin's Russia.